Re: [sixties-l] [Fwd: The Propaganda War]

From: drieux (
Date: Wed Nov 14 2001 - 02:02:39 EST

  • Next message: Jeffrey Blankfort: "Re: [sixties-l] Todd Gitlin on the war (fwd)"
  • Next message: Marty Jezer: "Re: [sixties-l] Todd Gitlin on the war (fwd)"
  • Next message: "Re: [sixties-l] Todd Gitlin on the war (fwd)"

    On Tuesday, November 13, 2001, at 08:48 , Ted Morgan wrote:

    > Passing these two items along, since they tend to concentrate on what
    > Americans don't hear about today's war... The first deals with a little
    > 80s history, while the second is a report from Robert Fisk a longtime
    > Middle-East correspondent for the Independent (UK).
    > Ted

    When we talk about 'what the americans are not hearing' do we mean to
    what they didn't want to know about back then, and are still unwilling to
    interrupt their lives with unravelling now?

    I mean, come on, give me a break - trying to Shill to me that the Kabul
    regime was defending with ammunition left over from 1943 Russian
    Hello, have we been drinking the bong water? The ZSU-4-23 was not even
    IN the russian inventory in WWII.....

    let us not confuse the designatore 7.62x39 M1943 - which indicates rounds
    that are for use with the AK family of fire arms with the actual
    date - that way is as silly as presuming that all M1911A1's were made in
    1911 - including all of the candian new built ones.

    I can understand that 'get it' about actual military operations means
    a little time out and becoming aware of how to do some basic analysis,
    that it takes a little time and skill, but in the intervening time since
    the start of the Persian Gulf War we have been able to get ruth to
    between SAM's going up, stuff falling down, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, and
    basic primary and secondary explosions that have been the boring staples
    the night vision vantage point of the war to date.

    So come on folks, if we are going to counter 'propoganda wars' - lets
    by at least being truthful. Surface to Air Missiles were not a part of
    1943 russian arsenal - those are "modern" inventions. I'm not asking
    to be able to recite the full inventory of soviet made radar systems as a
    principle indicator of target acquisition and tracking systems for all of
    the various SAM configurations, but let us at least be able to do better
    than the Americans who Panic'd when 'the day after' was shown on TV and
    rushed out to picket the american naval enlisted club that happened to
    have a Satellite Dish up so that they could watch the american football

    I know, it takes some work, but a little practice, and a little
    attention to
    detail and you can do the basic leg work from what imaging is released.

    Now as for the fun with nicaragua. Hello, take the time, actually go read
    the reading of the World Court with regards to the Suit brought by
    Hell most of the players at the time wanted the Reagan Administration to
    the NOTAMs { Notice to all Mariners } which would have complied with the
    convention on the use of Naval Mines. But while we are going down this
    way, we
    would also be well served to resolve some of the open questions like why
    Commandante Zero walk on the Sandindistas.... not to mention the reality
    that American Weapons Abandoned when the Saigon Regime fell showed up in
    El Salvadore
    and that Nicaragua did admit to supporting their Fraternal Socialist

    Wow, that was a lot of work - just like the american policy of using the
    freed up Egyptian AK's and shipping them off to Afghanistan.

    But of course to go through all of this would really mean taking us back
    the same social unpleasantry of actually LISTENING to the Red Army
    Grunts who
    served 'in country' and the fact that they got as screwed over as other
    sent abroad to stop the 'evil menance' while back home those who had the
    and the family connections to be able to 'avoid the draft' - or as the
    round of popularized interviews on things like the discovery channel and
    have been pointing out, a lot of Russian Grunts were sold the bag of
    goods that
    they were going in to help a fraternal socialist fellow state and that
    would be directly combatting american troops.

    Come On Folks. If we're going to do anything let us at least learn both
    from our own history, and from the sheer absurdity of the rhetoric that
    is probably not going to be a pony underneath that steaming mound of

    I mean, how many americans KNEW on 9/10 that the USA was still legally at
    war? Clearly the trendy leftists of the 'anti-war' cabal were not running
    up there protesting the american war with Iraq - and now clearly feel
    they should do something about their silence.



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Nov 15 2001 - 03:56:40 EST