[tei-council] Draft of 2008-02-07 conference call minutes
Dan O'Donnell
daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca
Wed Feb 13 17:08:08 EST 2008
Yeah. I've been wondering who this Paul might be who sounds like me:
perhaps my middle name? We're always getting confused ;)
On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 16:35 -0500, John A. Walsh wrote:
> And I was a participant. Maybe David had me confused with Peter,
> although our accents are quite different. :-)
>
> John
> --
> | John A. Walsh
> | Assistant Professor, School of Library and Information Science
> | Indiana University, 1320 East Tenth Street, Bloomington, IN 47405
> | www: <http://www.slis.indiana.edu/faculty/jawalsh/>
> | Voice:812-856-0707 Fax:812-856-2062 <mailto:jawalsh at indiana.edu>
>
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Peter Boot wrote:
>
> > I'm surprised at finding my name among the participants, as (as I
> > announced) I couldn't take part in the conference call!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > David Sewell schreef:
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Here is a preliminary text version of the minutes, which I'll plug
> >> into
> >> the XML template once it is final. Could everyone look it over and
> >> provide me with any necessary corrections or additional info? In
> >> particular:
> >>
> >> * search for '??' to see queries, mostly involving email list
> >> ownership
> >>
> >> * double-check attributions. I may not always have distinguished
> >> properly between Lou and Gabriel's voice (and possibly Sebastian
> >> once or
> >> twice), or between Paul and Dan. To give me better distinction in
> >> regional accents, I no doubt should have asked for ground rules at
> >> the
> >> start, e.g. "Lou, can we have you use a broad Scots dialect on this
> >> call, and Dan, could you emphasise the Canadian by doing either Bob
> >> and
> >> Doug McKenzie or Jean Chrétien, your choice?"
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> ==============
> >>
> >> MINUTES OF TEI COUNCIL CONFERENCE CALL, 7 FEBRUARY 2008
> >>
> >> Called to order 1300 UTC
> >>
> >> Participants:
> >>
> >> Gabriel Bodard (GB), Peter Boot (PB), Arianna Ciula (AC), James
> >> Cummings
> >> (JC), Syd Bauman (SB), Lou Burnard (LB), Dan O'Donnell (DO),
> >> Sebastian
> >> Rahtz (SR), David Sewell (DS; minutes), and Laurent Romary (LR;
> >> Chair).
> >>
> >> Unable to participate:
> >>
> >> Tone Bruvik, Elena Pierazzo, Manfred Thaller, and John
> >> Walsh.
> >>
> >> 1. Scope of Council Activities
> >>
> >> 1.1 Technical Activities
> >>
> >> 1.1.1 Guideline Status
> >>
> >> LR asks us to consider the current status of Guidelines. How are
> >> we
> >> handling updates and point releases? SR reminds us that he had
> >> raised the
> >> question of fixed release vs. varying bug-fix releases and had
> >> recommended a 2x per year schedule. GB, AC, and SB agreed that
> >> practice and
> >> consensus was for a fixed timetable. SR notes that the 1.0.1
> >> release is
> >> a "release zero", not a 6-month release. LR concurs: the next
> >> release
> >> will be over the summer, unless serious bugs appear. JC notes that
> >> everyone has access to Sourceforge for intermediate stages.
> >>
> >> Should we have "stable/unstable" distinction? It's helpful for
> >> people to
> >> test releases.
> >> GB: there is a fixed date in TEI timetable, the November
> >> meeting. Shall we say
> >> there will always be a pre-release of next major release before
> >> Nov?
> >>
> >> JC asks about about numbering of releases, so people can cite the
> >> version of the Guidelines they are using. SR: the only way to do
> >> this is
> >> by release dates, where the date is the version number. LR
> >> notes that a
> >> release is more than just a source version on SourceForge, it
> >> involves a
> >> lot of checking. DO asks if someone could just write up a
> >> numbering
> >> language system for us to put on a Web page? A new version
> >> number will
> >> be added when there is an actual feature/module change, not just
> >> changes
> >> to Guidelines language.
> >>
> >> LR: can we stabilize a formulation?
> >>
> >> Releases every 6 months; a pre-release before the November
> >> meeting; unstable SourceForge branches are maintained and
> >> identified
> >> by SourceForge revision number. A "release" consists of the
> >> SourceForge update, creation of compiled packages and
> >> schemas, and an
> >> update of the Guidelines (LB).
> >>
> >> 1.1.2 Bug reporting
> >>
> >> LR asks about the current situation with the stability of the
> >> Guidelines? do we still have major bugs, or just tiny issues
> >> over next
> >> months? JC: it's not clear where bug reports are going any more.
> >> LB: it
> >> is clear we want bug reports to go to SourceForge, into the
> >> tracker.
> >> But we haven't agreed on: (1) how to make sure Council provides
> >> input,
> >> or who is responsible; (2) the way to build a workflow to take
> >> suggestions & deal with them. DO: this will be an important
> >> thing to
> >> discuss in Galway. LB: is this channel best way of soliciting
> >> input? SB:
> >> no, many people are scared by SourceForge. We need to have an
> >> email/list
> >> mechanism. LB: then at the point in discussion where there is
> >> general
> >> agreement, someone needs to write it up as a SourceForge feature
> >> request. LR notes the gap between TEI-L and TEI Council. DO: So
> >> we need
> >> formally to keep an eye on TEI-L, and put into SourceForge bug
> >> reports
> >> and feature requests from there. JC: shouldn't all Council
> >> members do
> >> this? DO: but it helps to have someone designated. LR agrees;
> >> at the
> >> Member's Meeting, we discussed the dropping of Guideline
> >> "editors", with
> >> work on them organized by Council, but I strongly recommend we
> >> provide
> >> editorial support. We should make sure that Oxford has stable
> >> editorial
> >> support. DO: the decision was made to increase flexibility, not
> >> to
> >> remove input from the current editors. There is no mandate for
> >> "editors" in the (TEI Consortium) Bylaws, but we can Bylaws
> >> mandate, but
> >> we can still assign certain tasks as needed.
> >>
> >> LR recommends that Board discuss this matter; we need an "air
> >> traffic
> >> controller".
> >>
> >> There followed some additional discussion on bug reporting/
> >> tracking
> >> procedures. DS suggests the possibility of a Wiki area on the
> >> TEI Wiki
> >> for bug discussion. SB suggests having a single email address
> >> for bug
> >> reports. DO objects that this creates multiple unofficial
> >> channels for
> >> bug reports. We don't want multiple lists. SB replies that
> >> we're going
> >> to have this no matter what. LB replies we can insist on paying
> >> attention only to 2 places and having bug reports sent to
> >> specified
> >> venues. Members disagree over whether that venue should be
> >> SourceForge,
> >> LB arguing yes, SB and AC saying no. JC says that if bugs are to
> >> be
> >> discussed on an email list, surely that should be TEI-L. AC
> >> notes some
> >> people don't understand the distinctions between the different
> >> venues.
> >> We need a mechanism to facilitate communication for less
> >> technically
> >> adept users. DO asks, why not have a volunteer from Council as
> >> facilitator?
> >>
> >> LR: there's a problem with having too many tools. Let's have a
> >> clear
> >> mechanism. TEI-L is a good place for all these discussions; let
> >> us not
> >> have lots of side discussions.
> >>
> >> DO(??): Okay, let's use SourceForge as our single location, with
> >> mechanisms for helping people report who don't use SourceForge.
> >> LR:
> >> there should be tutorials on how to report. If we reduce number
> >> of
> >> tools, people can be more aware of them.
> >>
> >> DO: it sounds like we have identified a need for a release
> >> secretary and
> >> a SourceForge secretary, and an editorial support group.
> >>
> >> 1.2 Outreach, Education
> >>
> >> 1.2.1 ODD
> >>
> >> LR begins by suggesting that "exemplars" and "ODD" are key word
> >> are key
> >> words. One of main ways we can offer entry into the TEI
> >> environment is
> >> by adding ready-made schemas. SR cautions that if we create
> >> exemplars by
> >> committee, it will be difficult to get results. SB says that the
> >> current
> >> crop of exemplars are good for creating ODDs, but not so good for
> >> tackling various tasks. We don't have sample schemas that are
> >> good for
> >> encoding. For example: we don't show how to use constraints. SR
> >> observes
> >> that an exemplar constraining types might not be useful for
> >> individual
> >> needs. TEI Tite and TEI Lite, on the other hand, are intended to
> >> "be
> >> used"; LB concurs that whatever the original intentions behind
> >> Lite
> >> were, it is used as an "off the shelf" product. GB: we don't want
> >> example ODDs, we want example projects. Peter Boot notes word
> >> "exemplar" is ambiguous, especially for non-English speakers;
> >> can we
> >> find a better term? [Note from DS: Peter is right, and this is
> >> true in
> >> English as well. The New Oxford Dictionary of English definition
> >> of
> >> "exemplar" is "a person or thing serving as a typical example or
> >> appropriate model". The latter sense is normative; the former is
> >> not.]
> >>
> >> LB: this is what the TEI by Example project was supposed to
> >> provide.
> >> Unfortunately it's not doing that. It would be good to have set of
> >> examples of how people have solved things. JC agrees: "case
> >> studies".
> >> PB says this is an issue of the scope of Council: instead of
> >> doing this
> >> ourselves, we should figure out how to liaise w/ other groups
> >> doing
> >> these activities. General agreement.
> >>
> >> LR asks, what is status of ODD? Should we focus on improvements
> >> to ODD
> >> features? SB: yes, but we should defer this so we can address
> >> other
> >> issues first. SR agrees; this isn't a core business of Council
> >> in 2008;
> >> we should treat it as a parallel activity. LR objects that this
> >> ODD is
> >> in fact essential to outreach, as many TEI communities can
> >> contribute
> >> via ODD modules. The importance of ODD means it should be on our
> >> agenda
> >> (even if we don't make changes). GB concurs that it may be a
> >> mistake to
> >> segregate ODD activity; customizing TEI is a basic activity. Any
> >> outreach/education will connect with ODD.
> >>
> >> SR: We don't want to send the message "here's the language to
> >> use, but
> >> we're going to change it". ODD is unusual because it is tied up
> >> with the
> >> software that implements it.
> >>
> >> 1.2.2. Other Outreach and Internationalization Goals
> >>
> >> LR: Within Council, we should find a way to relate to external
> >> projects
> >> connected with TEI. We will integrate results of other groups;
> >> some of
> >> us will have duties to interact with specific ones. "I see more
> >> and more
> >> requests for short introductions on specific topics and offering
> >> examples." We could provide consultation on these matters. DO
> >> agrees:
> >> this has always been Council's duty. For example, current funding
> >> proposals before the National Endowment for the Humanities
> >> include two
> >> very TEI-centric projects.
> >>
> >> LR: This is true of internationalization also.
> >>
> >> Question: how do we identify the groups with which Council should
> >> interact? LR suggests this is part of Council's activity. DO asks
> >> whether we should issue invitations for groups who want Council
> >> involvement. JC notes that when someone comes to TEI-L an asks
> >> "can
> >> someone help me?" we need to provide a name. DO says this will
> >> become
> >> more and more important in funding projects.
> >>
> >> LR concludes: we should systematize the responsibility of these
> >> "corresponding persons". This will be added to the Galway meeting
> >> agenda.
> >>
> >> 3. Global organization of Council
> >>
> >> 3.1 Communication
> >>
> >> The next discussion involved the TEI's communication platforms,
> >> specifically the TEI website and our mailing lists. LR notes a
> >> need for
> >> Council workgroups or people to oversee both. The Board has
> >> appointed a
> >> website workgroup that we can provide input to.
> >>
> >> LB notes that service over the past year from Council email list
> >> has not
> >> been good; the server has been down too often. JC asks whether it
> >> wouldn't make sense to have all TEI email lists hosted on tei-
> >> c.org? SB
> >> raises a difficulty: the main list TEI-L is run on commercial
> >> software.
> >> No alternative software that he is aware of supports that level of
> >> service. Can we find open-source software? LB says that TEI-L is
> >> working fine and is not the issue. But perhaps the tei-council
> >> list
> >> should be moved. Level of service is more important than whether
> >> or not
> >> all the lists are in one place.
> >>
> >> LR summarizes that we need to confirm ongoing support for the
> >> lists at
> >> Virginia, or explore the possibility of merging or moving list
> >> hosts.
> >> DS offers to confer with his Virginia colleagues on that status
> >> of the
> >> system hosting the lists. [He reported back that
> >> lists.village.virginia.edu, the host for the TEI Council and
> >> Board email
> >> lists, is indeed in the process of being merged with the new tei-
> >> c.org
> >> host, which will have 24/7 tech support; and the IATH system
> >> administrator is looking into adding full-text search on the tei-
> >> council
> >> list archive.]
> >>
> >> 3.2 Responsibilities
> >>
> >> LR moves on to a discussion of general TEI Consortium
> >> responsibilities
> >> and Council's part in them. DO raises the issue of who "has the
> >> keys" to
> >> different things: who has responsibility, for example, for the
> >> SourceForge repository, for www.tei-c.org., etc? Should we
> >> survey who
> >> controls the different things we use? LR: Yes. if we know for
> >> example
> >> that U of Virgina has responsibility for the website, we need to
> >> have a
> >> single contact person. Likewise with Oxford's editorial support.
> >> DO: we
> >> don't have a single list of responsibilities. We should maybe put
> >> together before Galway meeting: SourceForge, mailing lists,
> >> website,
> >> Wiki... who has the passwords and oversight. SB agrees that such
> >> an
> >> inventory is important. LR asks that all "keyholders" please
> >> send a note
> >> to DS for inclusion in the minutes.
> >>
> >> 3.2.1 "Keyholders"
> >>
> >> DS received the following information on keyholding
> >> responsibilities for
> >> TEI resources:
> >>
> >> Mailing Lists (active):
> >>
> >> @ Brown University: Syd Bauman default admin, plus others in
> >> parentheses
> >>
> >> TEI-L
> >> TEI-MEET
> >> TEI-MEMBERS (Veronika Lux)
> >> TEI-MS-SIG (Elena Pierazzo)
> >> TEI-MUSIC-SIG (Raffaele Viglianti, Gabriel Board, Dot
> >> Porter)
> >> TEI-OL-SIG (David Durand)
> >> TEI-SIGS (Susan Schreibman)
> >> TEI-SOM (David Durand)
> >>
> >> @ Indiana University
> >>
> >> TEILIB-L [who is admin??]
> >>
> >> @ New York University
> >>
> >> tei-presentation [who is admin??]
> >>
> >> @ Oxford [who is admin??]
> >>
> >> tei-chars
> >> tei-extensions
> >> tei-i18n
> >> tei-iso-fs
> >> tei-meta
> >>
> >> @ SourceForge [same admins as SourceForge repository??]
> >>
> >> tei-choice
> >> tei-ontology-sig
> >>
> >> @ University of Virginia, hosted at IATH (Daniel Pitti),
> >> list admin
> >> David Sewell:
> >>
> >> tei-board
> >> tei-council
> >>
> >>
> >> Membership Database:
> >>
> >> Veronica Lux (+ others??). Syd Bauman has r/o access.
> >>
> >> Perforce repository (at OUCS):
> >>
> >> Lou Burnard, chief administrator; others with r/w access are
> >> Syd
> >> Bauman, James Cummings, Sebastian Rahtz.
> >>
> >> Servers:
> >>
> >> www.tei-c.org.uk at Oxford, still used for Vault (Sebastian
> >> Rahtz
> >> and Lou Burnard)
> >> tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, used for test Roma and Guidelines
> >> (Sebastian Rahtz)
> >> -- including Debian repository, administered by
> >> Sebastian Rahtz
> >> www.tei-c.org at U of Virginia, main TEI server,
> >> administered by
> >> Daniel Pitti
> >>
> >> SourceForge:
> >>
> >> Project admins are Syd Bauman, Lou Burnard, Sebastian
> >> Rahtz. As of
> >> these minutes, there are a total of 14 developers (with
> >> rights to
> >> update source), list viewable at
> >> https://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?
> >> group_id=106328.
> >>
> >> TEI Live CD source: owned by Sebastian Rahtz
> >>
> >> TEI Website (on www.tei-c.org):
> >>
> >> administered by Christine Ruotolo. Other people with read/
> >> write
> >> access to the OpenCMS repository used for the website: Lou
> >> Burnard,
> >> Sebastian Rahtz(??).
> >>
> >> TEI Wiki administrators:
> >>
> >> James Cummings (Council), Piotr Banski, Kevin Hawkins,
> >> Sebastian
> >> Rahtz. The system administrator in charge is Shayne Brandon
> >> of IATH
> >> at UVa.
> >>
> >> 4. Preparation for Galway meeting
> >>
> >> LR: Dates for the meeting are fixed, April 2-4. On Wednesday the
> >> 2nd
> >> there will be a symposium organized by Malte Rehbein, who has
> >> issued a
> >> Call for Papers. The Council meeting proper will take place on
> >> the 3rd
> >> and 4th. We don't have a specific plan for Council members to
> >> participate in the symposium, but it is expected that we will
> >> attend and
> >> contribute. AC says that the organizers are focusing on
> >> presentations
> >> from the Irish TEI community. They will see how many local
> >> presentations they have and will then ask Council if they need
> >> supplementation. Susan Schreibman is the contact person/
> >> organizer. LR
> >> notes that we have a group hotel rate, so no need to worry about
> >> lodging. We'll plan to start the Council meeting early on
> >> Thursday, and
> >> to end by 4 p.m. Friday afternoon. DO will post to tei-council
> >> about
> >> arrangements.
> >>
> >> Information about Council funding of the meeting is on the TEI
> >> Wiki:
> >>
> >> http://www.tei-c.org/wiki/index.php/TEI-Council-FAQ#What_funding_is_available_for_Council_Activities.3F
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> tei-council mailing list
> >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > tei-council mailing list
> > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU
> > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD
Associate Professor and Chair, Department of English
Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/
Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/
University of Lethbridge
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
Canada
Vox: +1 403 329-2378
Fax: +1 403 382-7191
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