[tei-council] biblscope and imprint

[Lou Burnard]

Kevin's recommended tagging below contradicts what it currently says in 
the Guidelines:

"<p>When the item being cited is a journal article, the
<gi>imprint</gi> element describing the issue in which it appeared
may contain <gi>biblScope</gi> elements for volume and
page numbers, together with a <gi>date</gi> element.
  </p>"

That doesn't mean it's wrong of course... but that para should probably 
be removed.

There is also the rather nasty Thaller example in section #COBICOL which 
contains an analytic, followed by two monogrs. The article in question 
was published twice, once in a journal and once as a free standing 
monograph. If we put the page numbers for the journal publication inside 
the analytic, as Kevin suggests, how do we know that they are not 
relevant to the second <monogr>?




On 02/11/12 18:14, Lou Burnard wrote:
> OK. Seems like quite a lot of tagging, and I doubt if anyone will ever
> get it right, all the same. In cases like this, the pagination often
> runs across the volumes -- the December 1991 issue of this journal
> doesn't have over 380 pages!
>
>
> On 02/11/12 15:11, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>> Gabby's right. I was focusing on placement of <biblScope> in relation to
>> <imprint>.  So Lou's citation (from the Guidelines) would in fact be:
>>
>> <biblStruct>
>>      <analytic>
>>        <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>        <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>        <biblScope type="pp">377–380</biblScope>
>>      </analytic>
>>      <monogr>
>>        <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>        <imprint>
>>          <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>        </imprint>
>>        <biblScope type="vol">25</biblScope>
>>        <biblScope type="issue">6</biblScope>
>>      </monogr>
>> </biblStruct>
>>
>> On 11/2/2012 10:50 AM, Gabriel Bodard wrote:
>>> Is that what we proposed?
>>>
>>> I thought I remembered we had suggested to put the biblScope in the
>>> element whose scope is being defined by it, so<biblScope type="pp">
>>> goes in<analytic>  because the article is only pages 377-380 of the
>>> volume in question, and<biblScope type="issue">  goes in<monogr>
>>> because this volume is only issue 25.6 of the journal....
>>>
>>> But looking at this stuff I find myself more and more agreeing with
>>> Martin that biblStruct was never a good idea. ;-)
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>> On 2012-11-02 14:29, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>>>> The ticket proposes putting<biblScope>s after the<imprint>  element
>>>> when its present.  So your example would now be encoded as:
>>>>
>>>> <biblStruct>
>>>>        <analytic>
>>>>          <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>>>          <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>>>        </analytic>
>>>>        <monogr>
>>>>          <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>          <imprint>
>>>>            <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>          </imprint>
>>>>          <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>          <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>        </monogr>
>>>> </biblStruct>
>>>>
>>>> --Kevin
>>>>
>>>> On 11/2/2012 7:02 AM, Lou Burnard wrote:
>>>>> Tootling across france on the train yesterday I started trying to deal
>>>>> with http://purl.org/tei/FR/3555190...
>>>>>
>>>>> The part about the scope of biblscope was fairly easy to add, as was
>>>>> guidance on usage of biblScope. But I hit a problem with the second
>>>>> part, where it says that biblScope doesn't belong inside<imprint>   --
>>>>> the logic behind that desire is impeccable, but it messes up an awful
>>>>> lot of out current practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> <biblStruct>
>>>>> <analytic>
>>>>> <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>>>> <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>>>> </analytic>
>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>> <imprint>
>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>> <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>> </biblStruct>
>>>>>
>>>>> which is a fairly common pattern in P5 (and appears as the canonical
>>>>> example for<imprint>)
>>>>>
>>>>> If, following FR 3555190, we think<biblStruct>   has no place within
>>>>> <imprint>, how should
>>>>> this, and many similar cases, be tagged?
>>>>>
>>>>> One possibility might be
>>>>>
>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>> <imprint>
>>>>> <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another might be
>>>>>
>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>> <biblScope type="date">(December, 1991)</biblScope>
>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>>
>>>>> or perhaps better
>>>>>
>>>>> <biblScope><date when="1991-12">(December, 1991)</date></biblScope>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Another might be to tweak the content model so that
>>>>> model.dateLike is permitted outside<imprint>   and alongside<biblScope>
>>>>>
>>>>> And another might be to reconsider the decision to remove<biblScope>
>>>>> from within<imprint>
>>>>>
>>>>> Any ideas? Everyone braced for the rush of complaints?
>>>>>