[tei-council] Take a look at <listApp> spec

[Lou Burnard]

There was a question about this on TEI-L just last week, so I agree that 
there is need to explain generically and consistently where we recommend 
people put elements such as <interpGrp> and other members of 
model.global.meta ... but I think we probably need to look at it as a 
distinct issue. There's nothing wrong with leaving Martin's note as it 
stands in <listApp> -- we can always come back to it if we decide it 
should be primetime viewing for all of these things.

And I do continue to think that <listApp> is not in quite the same 
league since <app> is at least some of the time for encoding an 
apparatus already existing in a text, not a set of interpretations added 
to it by the encoder.

   On 15/08/12 16:42, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
> While the text inside <listApp> may be found in the text of the source
> document in various places, the fact that this info is pulled together
> in one place but the encoder doesn't know where to put it makes it seem
> to me much like descriptive bibliographic metadata.  But in any case, I
> would like to see the note added not only to <listApp> *but also to
> <interpGrp> and any other similar elements*.  I know that I have been in
> Council meetings where <interpGrp> was compared to some other element,
> but I no longer remember what it was.  :(
>
> On 8/15/2012 11:35 AM, Martin Holmes wrote:
>> Hi Kevin,
>>
>> Re the <ptr> thing: I think Sebastian has already fixed it.
>>
>> On this question:
>>
>>> b) I see the note you added for <listApp>, but it feels wrong to me to
>>> include this note if we don't also include it for <interpGrp> and any
>>> other elements that feel a bit like metadata to most of us but can
>>> appear within <text> because they sometimes occur there in source
>>> documents. So I'm inclined to add this point to clarification to
>>> <interpGrp> as well, plus any other such elements. (I know there are
>>> others out there because people have mentioned them, but I don't
>>> remember any of them or how to find them.)
>>
>> That's a good point, and I think it perhaps should be included elsewhere
>> too. The note is:
>>
>> "<listApp> elements would normally be located in the back part of a
>> document, but they may appear elsewhere."
>>
>> My intention was to give some guidance on where lists of standoff <app>s
>> might appear in the document, for people who were simply looking for a
>> recommendation, and encourage a common practice, without shutting the
>> door to other options. With regard to elements that can appear virtually
>> anywhere in a document, I often find myself asking "Where do people
>> _usually_ put them?"
>>
>> I think <listApp> differs a bit from <interpGrp> et al because it
>> contains actual transcription from source texts (in the <app> element),
>> so it does actually seem wrong to put it in the header.
>>
>> But do you really think the note should be removed from <listApp> until
>> it is also added elsewhere? It seems perverse to remove a useful note
>> simply because there are other places where similarly useful notes
>> aren't yet provided.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> On 12-08-14 05:15 PM, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>>> Two things:
>>>
>>> a) I notice that <ptr/>s are rendered differently in your build than in
>>> the latest release. I suspect this is fallout from the fix that you
>>> and/or Sebastian did to make URLs relative instead of absolute.
>>>
>>> So as not to confuse the matter, here's a different element definition.
>>> Compare the links after the <desc>:
>>>
>>> http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca:8080/job/TEIP5-Documentation/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Guidelines-web/en/html/ref-p.html
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-p.html
>>>
>>> b) I see the note you added for <listApp>, but it feels wrong to me to
>>> include this note if we don't also include it for <interpGrp> and any
>>> other elements that feel a bit like metadata to most of us but can
>>> appear within <text> because they sometimes occur there in source
>>> documents. So I'm inclined to add this point to clarification to
>>> <interpGrp> as well, plus any other such elements. (I know there are
>>> others out there because people have mentioned them, but I don't
>>> remember any of them or how to find them.)
>>>
>>> --K.
>>>
>>> On 8/14/12 1:53 PM, Martin Holmes wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> As part of work arising out of Ann Arbor, I've created an elementSpec
>>>> for the new <listApp> element, and added a mention of it to the
>>>> Guidelines. You can see the results here:
>>>>
>>>> <http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca:8080/job/TEIP5-Documentation/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Guidelines-web/en/html/ref-listApp.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca:8080/job/TEIP5-Documentation/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/Guidelines-web/en/html/TC.html#TCAPLK>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Could you take a look and see if there's anything you think should be
>>>> changed?
>>>>
>>>> There is currently only one example for the element; although I have
>>>> been asking around, no others have been forthcoming. I'm not sure
>>>> whether we really need another example; I have considered fabricating
>>>> one based on other examples in the TC chapter, but I'm not sure it's
>>>> really needed -- <listApp> is pretty straightforward -- and I always
>>>> think twice these days about making the Guidelines any bigger.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>