[tei-council] @dur seems to be unavailable

Martin Holmes mholmes at uvic.ca
Thu Nov 3 18:45:41 EDT 2011

Hi Lou,

There are lots of examples in the guidelines of using @dur in exactly 
the way I propose: Relative Dates and Times

I reached the station <time when="14:15:00">
  <time dur="PT30M0S">precisely half an hour</time>
  <time when="13:45:00" type="occasion">the departure of the afternoon 
train to Boston</time>

This has nothing to do with "spoken". If you agree that examples like 
this are reasonable use-cases, then I'll file a bug report. I was more 
concerned that regular users might read in the guidelines that @dur can 
be used in this way, and then (like me) not be able to figure out how to 
get it added to their schema.

I didn't realize things worked out of the box with iso durations. In 
that case I might go with that.


On 11-11-03 03:39 PM, Lou Burnard wrote:
> On 03/11/11 22:30, Martin Holmes wrote:
>> I should have seen this:
>> <classSpec xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" module="spoken"
>> predeclare="true" type="atts" ident="att.duration">
>> But I was led astray by the Guidelines, which say:
>> data.duration.w3c
>> Module	tei — 1 The TEI Infrastructure
> it's a bit tricksy ... the class has to be predeclared (but without any
> value) so that it can be referenced from other classes. DTDs. Don't ask.
>> In any case, this _has_ to be the wrong place for duration.
> I beg to differ.
> In this
>> case, I need duration for specifying the relative timing of fictional
>> events which have no specific real date or time;
> In which case you don't want @dur ! you want something else.
> I need none of the
>> elements in spoken at all, and I've excluded them all. It seems silly to
>> be forced to include a module when you don't want any of its elements.
>> I think duration should be pulled in automatically by namesdates as well
>> as by spoken. I'm not sure of the mechanism for doing this, though.
>> Should I put in a ticket for this?
> Certainly (tho right now I'd be happier to see some tickets being closed
> rather than more added). It would be useful if you could explain the use
> case more clearly. @dur is for timed events, and the only module we have
> in which timed events occur is spoken.
> By the way, I vaguely recall that if you use iso dates rather than w3c
> dates, you get duration included as part of the representation for
> date/time for free. But maybe that's not what you wanted.
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>> On 11-11-03 03:11 PM, Lou Burnard wrote:
>>> You need to include the spoken module to get this attribute.
>>> On 03/11/11 22:02, Martin Holmes wrote:
>>>> I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here, but I just generated a
>>>> schema in the online Roma with core stuff + corpus + namesdates +
>>>> textcrit, and I was expecting @dur to be available on<date>     and<time>,
>>>> but it's not.
>>>> If I do "change attributes" on<date>, @dur is not one of the options.
>>>> @dur is defined in att.duration.w3c.
>>>> att.duration is a member of att.duration.w3c.
>>>> <date>     is a member of att.duration.
>>>> In addition, there's also a macroSpec called data.duration.w3c, which
>>>> defines the datatype for W3C durations.
>>>> What am I missing here? I can't find any bug reports or FRs relating to
>>>> this.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Martin
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Martin Holmes
University of Victoria Humanities Computing and Media Centre
(mholmes at uvic.ca)

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