[tei-council] repeating and typing tei:provenance

Mon Sep 26 08:55:40 EDT 2011

Lou. Quick question: why would @type be more meaningful than att.typed?

Le 26 sept. 2011 à 13:12, Lou Burnard a écrit :

> I wonder whether simply adding @type is the right answer in this case? I 
> would prefer to see a more semantically meaningful attribute added 
> explicitly to the provenance element.
> 
> "type" of a provenance might relate to any number of things -- its 
> reliability, the kind of authority behind it, on what temporal basis 
> it's made, etc. For example, suppose at some time a manuscript was in a 
> collection which had a policy of checking up on it every 6 months. You 
> might decide either to enter lots of provenance records saying 
> effectively "it was taken out and dusted", or you might decide just to 
> record a single provenance record for the whole time, including the info 
> that dusting had been carried out every six months. Wouldn't these be of 
> two different "type"s ("periodic" and "summary") as well?
> 
> Your examples of intended use ("found", "moved", "observed", "lost", 
> "destroyed", "restored" etc.) are fine for the case where you can map 
> each provenance to a single event, but this is not the only way that 
> <provenance> might be used, and therefore not the only way they might be 
> typed.
> 
> How about @eventType or even just @event ? (You could also add a value 
> such as "multiple" or "summary" of course)
> 
> As regards updating the schema without updating the documentation -- I 
> consider that to be an entirely understandable desire, but one which 
> should be resisted as far as is humanly possible! Certainly the ticket 
> should not be closed until the examples in the documentation have been 
> corrected.
> 
> 
> On 26/09/11 11:32, Gabriel Bodard wrote:
>> In this case, should I just go ahead and add att.typed to tei:provenance
>> and commit it to SVN? The other changes discussed in that ticket refer
>> to the guidelines only and have no schema implications.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> G
>> 
>> On 2011-09-24 05:43, Laurent Romary wrote:
>>> This is a very good move with respect to this ticket. Please go ahead (and agree with Elena, I don't think we need a new FR).
>>> Laurent
>>> 
>>> Le 23 sept. 2011 à 18:05, Pierazzo, Elena a écrit :
>>> 
>>>> Hi Gabby,
>>>> 
>>>> You have my blessing, in case you needed it. I don't think there is the
>>>> need of another FR as the possibility of allowing multiple<provenance>   is
>>>> contemplated within the initial description of the ticket.
>>>> Best
>>>> Elena
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 23/09/2011 16:55, "Bodard, Gabriel"<gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk>   wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Some Council members will already have seen the ticket posted by Lou a
>>>>> couple days ago (http://purl.com/TEI/FR/3411976) re the conflict between
>>>>> the definition of tei:provenance, "descriptive or other information
>>>>> concerning *a single identifiable episode* during the history of a
>>>>> manuscript" on the one hand, and on the other examples (including that
>>>>> at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/MS.html#mshy) in
>>>>> which mutiple episodes are described in a single provenance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I pointed out, in support of the examples over the definition, that
>>>>> provenance includes among its possible children tei:listEvent, and that
>>>>> some projects have already used this to represent different episodes in
>>>>> a manuscript's history within a single tei:provenance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The consensus on this ticket however seems to be that the definition is
>>>>> correct, the examples should be emended, and multiple episodes should be
>>>>> represented by repeated, dated tei:provenance elements in tei:history.
>>>>> It has also been suggested that provenance is a specialization of
>>>>> tei"event, so the usage is fine.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If that is the case, then I'd like to propose (does this need another
>>>>> ticket?) that as well as changes to the guidelines and correction of
>>>>> examples, the provenance element should allow att.typed (as event does),
>>>>> so that multiple provenances in the history of a single manuscript or
>>>>> object can be typed ("found", "moved", "observed", "lost", "destroyed",
>>>>> "restored" etc.), and looser subtypes can be used to differentiate
>>>>> between different kinds of loss, for example. (We were in the process of
>>>>> writing up a controlled set of values for tei:event/@type for the EpiDoc
>>>>> guidelines, with the intention of leaving @subtype unconstrained.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone object to this proposal? Should I put up a new FR ticket for
>>>>> it? I'd like to be able to let the EpiDoc community know what we've
>>>>> decided so it can be written into our ODD in advance of the next TEI
>>>>> release, if possible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gabby
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dr Gabriel BODARD
>>>>> (Research Associate in Digital Epigraphy)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Department of Digital Humanities
>>>>> King's College London
>>>>> 26-29 Drury Lane
>>>>> London WC2B 5RL
>>>>> 
>>>>> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk
>>>>> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388
>>>>> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/
>>>>> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/
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>>> Laurent Romary
>>> INRIA&   HUB-IDSL
>>> laurent.romary at inria.fr
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Laurent Romary
INRIA & HUB-IDSL
laurent.romary at inria.fr