[tei-council] span span span span span span span span glorious span

James Cummings James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk
Fri Aug 19 13:29:01 EDT 2011

On 19/08/11 17:37, Gabriel Bodard wrote:
> Would it be helpful to extend this to examples beyond a paragraph break
> to other kinds of intervening markup that might occur?
> E.g.:
> <persName>Mr Holmes<delSpan spanTo="#xx"/>esq.</persName>  <persName>The
> Rev'd<anchor xnl:id="xx"/>  Burnard</persName>
> Where a single stroke was used to erase "esq." and "The Rev'd". There
> are still two personal names in this list. (Although presumably usually
> some punctuation between them.)

This is a much better example.

> I'll see if I can find a real example from an inscription, in case this
> fiction is unconvincing...

The deletion removes the only unconvincing bit for me. :-)

Imagine those paragraphs earlier with list items filled with the content 
above. To complicate it:

<head>Fees for the Guild of Stationers</head>
<item><persName>Mr Holmes <delSpan spanTo="#xx"/>esq.</persName> - viijd 
<add place="supra">xijd</add></item>
<item><persName>The Rev'd<anchor xnl:id="xx"/>  Burnard - ijs 

The two items are meant by the scribe to be maintained. How much did Mr 
Holmes pay?  i.e. is the <delSpan/> including the text of the <add> or 
not? How would you encoded that a single line went from the "esq." to 
the end of "Rev'd" and then the scribe came back and added in the 'xijd' 
above the line where he had deleted viijd? I recognise there are indeed 
ways to do this, especially encoding the add elsewhere and point back to 
this location, but I think we need to make sure to be clear about this 
because this kind of spanning deletion and then adding in the 
corrections (which are not meant to then be deleted) which strike me as 
quite common. Certainly they are in my own illegible handwritten notes.

Although I tend to agree with Lou on this, I'm sure the question will 
come up what to do when you have a deletion which spans over elements 
which it does not delete. Image two lists, semantically separate, but 
graphically adjacent. I'm guessing there is no real reason to transcribe 
one first or the other (remembering internationalisation here).

<list rend="basically-floated-left">

<list rend="basically-floated-right-of-above">

1) How do I encoded a single stroke which goes from left to right and 
crosses out blort and blort2, but not wibble or Foo2?
2) How do I encode the same stroke but going from right to left? (Ok, 
arguably a @rend on delSpan?)
3) How do I encode when with a single line I cross out from the first 
'b' of wibble2 back up to the first 'o' of Foo, leaving 'F' and 'ble2' 
but all other content and semantics unchanged?

I'm not sure delSpan is the right solution for these kinds of things, 
but multiple <del> elements linked together or such.  I guess my worry 
is that I might have multiple elements and have a deletion that spans 
from one element to another but _doesn't_ include all the elements in 
between.  The pointing forward only thing still worries me, but I 
suppose one could cover this with @rend on the delSpan.


> On 2011-08-19 17:21, Martin Holmes wrote:
>> That's a bit counter-intuitive to me -- I think if your strikeout
>> explicitly crosses the paragraph boundary in a single stroke, you
>> probably mean to delete the boundary too. But these are issues of
>> interpretation. Perhaps we need to illustrate all three scenarios:
>> 1. Two distinct deletions, leaving para boundaries intact.
>> 2. One single deletion, deleting both text and para boundaries.
>> 3. One single deletion, crossing para boundaries, but for which the
>> encoder infers that the intention was not to delete the paragraph break.

Dr James Cummings, Manager of InfoDev
Oxford University Computing Services
University of Oxford

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