[tei-council] Draft of 2008-02-07 conference call minutes
Arianna Ciula
arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk
Thu Feb 14 05:50:19 EST 2008
> "Members disagree over whether that venue should be SourceForge, LB arguing yes, SB and AC saying no."
> -[I dont remember this disagreement being about where *discussion* of bugs etc should take place but maybe I'm wrong]
I think you are right. The disagreement was rather on the use of
SourceForge as the privileged place for everybody -so not only council-
to report issues; the reason of disagreement being that some people
believe SourceForge is to hight an obstacle to the less technically
aware part of the TEI community and probably also an inappropriate tool
for certain types of more prosy requests/comments.
Arianna
>
>
>
>> Laurent
>>
>> Le 13 févr. 08 à 17:50, Daniel O'Donnell a écrit :
>>
>>
>>> Looks good to me. I think it is an accurate reflection of the general
>>> thrust of the discussion: there were one or two places where I thought
>>> "is that really what x said?" but I think we wouldn't be able to get
>>> more accurate without a meta-meeting and the conclusions are, as
>>> far as
>>> I'm aware, all accurate.
>>>
>>> I saw a couple of dittographies of a couple of words but now I can't
>>> find them.
>>>
>>> The question-marked attributions to me are all things I'm willing to
>>> have said ;)
>>>
>>> -dan
>>>
>>> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 11:33 -0500, David Sewell wrote:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> Here is a preliminary text version of the minutes, which I'll plug
>>>> into
>>>> the XML template once it is final. Could everyone look it over and
>>>> provide me with any necessary corrections or additional info? In
>>>> particular:
>>>>
>>>> * search for '??' to see queries, mostly involving email list
>>>> ownership
>>>>
>>>> * double-check attributions. I may not always have distinguished
>>>> properly between Lou and Gabriel's voice (and possibly Sebastian
>>>> once or
>>>> twice), or between Paul and Dan. To give me better distinction in
>>>> regional accents, I no doubt should have asked for ground rules at
>>>> the
>>>> start, e.g. "Lou, can we have you use a broad Scots dialect on this
>>>> call, and Dan, could you emphasise the Canadian by doing either
>>>> Bob and
>>>> Doug McKenzie or Jean Chrétien, your choice?"
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> ==============
>>>>
>>>> MINUTES OF TEI COUNCIL CONFERENCE CALL, 7 FEBRUARY 2008
>>>>
>>>> Called to order 1300 UTC
>>>>
>>>> Participants:
>>>>
>>>> Gabriel Bodard (GB), Peter Boot (PB), Arianna Ciula (AC),
>>>> James Cummings
>>>> (JC), Syd Bauman (SB), Lou Burnard (LB), Dan O'Donnell (DO),
>>>> Sebastian
>>>> Rahtz (SR), David Sewell (DS; minutes), and Laurent Romary
>>>> (LR; Chair).
>>>>
>>>> Unable to participate:
>>>>
>>>> Tone Bruvik, Elena Pierazzo, Manfred Thaller, and John
>>>> Walsh.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Scope of Council Activities
>>>>
>>>> 1.1 Technical Activities
>>>>
>>>> 1.1.1 Guideline Status
>>>>
>>>> LR asks us to consider the current status of Guidelines. How
>>>> are we
>>>> handling updates and point releases? SR reminds us that he had
>>>> raised the
>>>> question of fixed release vs. varying bug-fix releases and had
>>>> recommended a 2x per year schedule. GB, AC, and SB agreed that
>>>> practice and
>>>> consensus was for a fixed timetable. SR notes that the 1.0.1
>>>> release is
>>>> a "release zero", not a 6-month release. LR concurs: the next
>>>> release
>>>> will be over the summer, unless serious bugs appear. JC notes
>>>> that
>>>> everyone has access to Sourceforge for intermediate stages.
>>>>
>>>> Should we have "stable/unstable" distinction? It's helpful for
>>>> people to
>>>> test releases.
>>>> GB: there is a fixed date in TEI timetable, the November
>>>> meeting. Shall we say
>>>> there will always be a pre-release of next major release
>>>> before Nov?
>>>>
>>>> JC asks about about numbering of releases, so people can cite the
>>>> version of the Guidelines they are using. SR: the only way to
>>>> do this is
>>>> by release dates, where the date is the version number. LR
>>>> notes that a
>>>> release is more than just a source version on SourceForge, it
>>>> involves a
>>>> lot of checking. DO asks if someone could just write up a
>>>> numbering
>>>> language system for us to put on a Web page? A new version
>>>> number will
>>>> be added when there is an actual feature/module change, not
>>>> just changes
>>>> to Guidelines language.
>>>>
>>>> LR: can we stabilize a formulation?
>>>>
>>>> Releases every 6 months; a pre-release before the November
>>>> meeting; unstable SourceForge branches are maintained and
>>>> identified
>>>> by SourceForge revision number. A "release" consists of the
>>>> SourceForge update, creation of compiled packages and
>>>> schemas, and an
>>>> update of the Guidelines (LB).
>>>>
>>>> 1.1.2 Bug reporting
>>>>
>>>> LR asks about the current situation with the stability of the
>>>> Guidelines? do we still have major bugs, or just tiny issues
>>>> over next
>>>> months? JC: it's not clear where bug reports are going any
>>>> more. LB: it
>>>> is clear we want bug reports to go to SourceForge, into the
>>>> tracker.
>>>> But we haven't agreed on: (1) how to make sure Council
>>>> provides input,
>>>> or who is responsible; (2) the way to build a workflow to take
>>>> suggestions & deal with them. DO: this will be an important
>>>> thing to
>>>> discuss in Galway. LB: is this channel best way of soliciting
>>>> input? SB:
>>>> no, many people are scared by SourceForge. We need to have an
>>>> email/list
>>>> mechanism. LB: then at the point in discussion where there is
>>>> general
>>>> agreement, someone needs to write it up as a SourceForge feature
>>>> request. LR notes the gap between TEI-L and TEI Council. DO:
>>>> So we need
>>>> formally to keep an eye on TEI-L, and put into SourceForge bug
>>>> reports
>>>> and feature requests from there. JC: shouldn't all Council
>>>> members do
>>>> this? DO: but it helps to have someone designated. LR agrees;
>>>> at the
>>>> Member's Meeting, we discussed the dropping of Guideline
>>>> "editors", with
>>>> work on them organized by Council, but I strongly recommend we
>>>> provide
>>>> editorial support. We should make sure that Oxford has stable
>>>> editorial
>>>> support. DO: the decision was made to increase flexibility,
>>>> not to
>>>> remove input from the current editors. There is no mandate for
>>>> "editors" in the (TEI Consortium) Bylaws, but we can Bylaws
>>>> mandate, but
>>>> we can still assign certain tasks as needed.
>>>>
>>>> LR recommends that Board discuss this matter; we need an "air
>>>> traffic
>>>> controller".
>>>>
>>>> There followed some additional discussion on bug reporting/
>>>> tracking
>>>> procedures. DS suggests the possibility of a Wiki area on the
>>>> TEI Wiki
>>>> for bug discussion. SB suggests having a single email address
>>>> for bug
>>>> reports. DO objects that this creates multiple unofficial
>>>> channels for
>>>> bug reports. We don't want multiple lists. SB replies that
>>>> we're going
>>>> to have this no matter what. LB replies we can insist on paying
>>>> attention only to 2 places and having bug reports sent to
>>>> specified
>>>> venues. Members disagree over whether that venue should be
>>>> SourceForge,
>>>> LB arguing yes, SB and AC saying no. JC says that if bugs are
>>>> to be
>>>> discussed on an email list, surely that should be TEI-L. AC
>>>> notes some
>>>> people don't understand the distinctions between the different
>>>> venues.
>>>> We need a mechanism to facilitate communication for less
>>>> technically
>>>> adept users. DO asks, why not have a volunteer from Council as
>>>> facilitator?
>>>>
>>>> LR: there's a problem with having too many tools. Let's have a
>>>> clear
>>>> mechanism. TEI-L is a good place for all these discussions;
>>>> let us not
>>>> have lots of side discussions.
>>>>
>>>> DO(??): Okay, let's use SourceForge as our single location, with
>>>> mechanisms for helping people report who don't use
>>>> SourceForge. LR:
>>>> there should be tutorials on how to report. If we reduce
>>>> number of
>>>> tools, people can be more aware of them.
>>>>
>>>> DO: it sounds like we have identified a need for a release
>>>> secretary and
>>>> a SourceForge secretary, and an editorial support group.
>>>>
>>>> 1.2 Outreach, Education
>>>>
>>>> 1.2.1 ODD
>>>>
>>>> LR begins by suggesting that "exemplars" and "ODD" are key
>>>> word are key
>>>> words. One of main ways we can offer entry into the TEI
>>>> environment is
>>>> by adding ready-made schemas. SR cautions that if we create
>>>> exemplars by
>>>> committee, it will be difficult to get results. SB says that
>>>> the current
>>>> crop of exemplars are good for creating ODDs, but not so good for
>>>> tackling various tasks. We don't have sample schemas that are
>>>> good for
>>>> encoding. For example: we don't show how to use constraints.
>>>> SR observes
>>>> that an exemplar constraining types might not be useful for
>>>> individual
>>>> needs. TEI Tite and TEI Lite, on the other hand, are intended
>>>> to "be
>>>> used"; LB concurs that whatever the original intentions behind
>>>> Lite
>>>> were, it is used as an "off the shelf" product. GB: we don't
>>>> want
>>>> example ODDs, we want example projects. Peter Boot notes word
>>>> "exemplar" is ambiguous, especially for non-English speakers;
>>>> can we
>>>> find a better term? [Note from DS: Peter is right, and this is
>>>> true in
>>>> English as well. The New Oxford Dictionary of English
>>>> definition of
>>>> "exemplar" is "a person or thing serving as a typical example or
>>>> appropriate model". The latter sense is normative; the former
>>>> is not.]
>>>>
>>>> LB: this is what the TEI by Example project was supposed to
>>>> provide.
>>>> Unfortunately it's not doing that. It would be good to have
>>>> set of
>>>> examples of how people have solved things. JC agrees: "case
>>>> studies".
>>>> PB says this is an issue of the scope of Council: instead of
>>>> doing this
>>>> ourselves, we should figure out how to liaise w/ other groups
>>>> doing
>>>> these activities. General agreement.
>>>>
>>>> LR asks, what is status of ODD? Should we focus on
>>>> improvements to ODD
>>>> features? SB: yes, but we should defer this so we can address
>>>> other
>>>> issues first. SR agrees; this isn't a core business of Council
>>>> in 2008;
>>>> we should treat it as a parallel activity. LR objects that
>>>> this ODD is
>>>> in fact essential to outreach, as many TEI communities can
>>>> contribute
>>>> via ODD modules. The importance of ODD means it should be on
>>>> our agenda
>>>> (even if we don't make changes). GB concurs that it may be a
>>>> mistake to
>>>> segregate ODD activity; customizing TEI is a basic activity. Any
>>>> outreach/education will connect with ODD.
>>>>
>>>> SR: We don't want to send the message "here's the language to
>>>> use, but
>>>> we're going to change it". ODD is unusual because it is tied
>>>> up with the
>>>> software that implements it.
>>>>
>>>> 1.2.2. Other Outreach and Internationalization Goals
>>>>
>>>> LR: Within Council, we should find a way to relate to external
>>>> projects
>>>> connected with TEI. We will integrate results of other groups;
>>>> some of
>>>> us will have duties to interact with specific ones. "I see
>>>> more and more
>>>> requests for short introductions on specific topics and offering
>>>> examples." We could provide consultation on these matters. DO
>>>> agrees:
>>>> this has always been Council's duty. For example, current funding
>>>> proposals before the National Endowment for the Humanities
>>>> include two
>>>> very TEI-centric projects.
>>>>
>>>> LR: This is true of internationalization also.
>>>>
>>>> Question: how do we identify the groups with which Council should
>>>> interact? LR suggests this is part of Council's activity. DO asks
>>>> whether we should issue invitations for groups who want Council
>>>> involvement. JC notes that when someone comes to TEI-L an asks
>>>> "can
>>>> someone help me?" we need to provide a name. DO says this
>>>> will become
>>>> more and more important in funding projects.
>>>>
>>>> LR concludes: we should systematize the responsibility of these
>>>> "corresponding persons". This will be added to the Galway meeting
>>>> agenda.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Global organization of Council
>>>>
>>>> 3.1 Communication
>>>>
>>>> The next discussion involved the TEI's communication platforms,
>>>> specifically the TEI website and our mailing lists. LR notes a
>>>> need for
>>>> Council workgroups or people to oversee both. The Board has
>>>> appointed a
>>>> website workgroup that we can provide input to.
>>>>
>>>> LB notes that service over the past year from Council email
>>>> list has not
>>>> been good; the server has been down too often. JC asks whether it
>>>> wouldn't make sense to have all TEI email lists hosted on tei-
>>>> c.org? SB
>>>> raises a difficulty: the main list TEI-L is run on commercial
>>>> software.
>>>> No alternative software that he is aware of supports that
>>>> level of
>>>> service. Can we find open-source software? LB says that TEI-L is
>>>> working fine and is not the issue. But perhaps the tei-council
>>>> list
>>>> should be moved. Level of service is more important than
>>>> whether or not
>>>> all the lists are in one place.
>>>>
>>>> LR summarizes that we need to confirm ongoing support for the
>>>> lists at
>>>> Virginia, or explore the possibility of merging or moving list
>>>> hosts.
>>>> DS offers to confer with his Virginia colleagues on that
>>>> status of the
>>>> system hosting the lists. [He reported back that
>>>> lists.village.virginia.edu, the host for the TEI Council and
>>>> Board email
>>>> lists, is indeed in the process of being merged with the new
>>>> tei-c.org
>>>> host, which will have 24/7 tech support; and the IATH system
>>>> administrator is looking into adding full-text search on the
>>>> tei-council
>>>> list archive.]
>>>>
>>>> 3.2 Responsibilities
>>>>
>>>> LR moves on to a discussion of general TEI Consortium
>>>> responsibilities
>>>> and Council's part in them. DO raises the issue of who "has
>>>> the keys" to
>>>> different things: who has responsibility, for example, for the
>>>> SourceForge repository, for www.tei-c.org., etc? Should we
>>>> survey who
>>>> controls the different things we use? LR: Yes. if we know for
>>>> example
>>>> that U of Virgina has responsibility for the website, we need
>>>> to have a
>>>> single contact person. Likewise with Oxford's editorial
>>>> support. DO: we
>>>> don't have a single list of responsibilities. We should maybe put
>>>> together before Galway meeting: SourceForge, mailing lists,
>>>> website,
>>>> Wiki... who has the passwords and oversight. SB agrees that
>>>> such an
>>>> inventory is important. LR asks that all "keyholders" please
>>>> send a note
>>>> to DS for inclusion in the minutes.
>>>>
>>>> 3.2.1 "Keyholders"
>>>>
>>>> DS received the following information on keyholding
>>>> responsibilities for
>>>> TEI resources:
>>>>
>>>> Mailing Lists (active):
>>>>
>>>> @ Brown University: Syd Bauman default admin, plus others in
>>>> parentheses
>>>>
>>>> TEI-L
>>>> TEI-MEET
>>>> TEI-MEMBERS (Veronika Lux)
>>>> TEI-MS-SIG (Elena Pierazzo)
>>>> TEI-MUSIC-SIG (Raffaele Viglianti, Gabriel Board, Dot
>>>> Porter)
>>>> TEI-OL-SIG (David Durand)
>>>> TEI-SIGS (Susan Schreibman)
>>>> TEI-SOM (David Durand)
>>>>
>>>> @ Indiana University
>>>>
>>>> TEILIB-L [who is admin??]
>>>>
>>>> @ New York University
>>>>
>>>> tei-presentation [who is admin??]
>>>>
>>>> @ Oxford [who is admin??]
>>>>
>>>> tei-chars
>>>> tei-extensions
>>>> tei-i18n
>>>> tei-iso-fs
>>>> tei-meta
>>>>
>>>> @ SourceForge [same admins as SourceForge repository??]
>>>>
>>>> tei-choice
>>>> tei-ontology-sig
>>>>
>>>> @ University of Virginia, hosted at IATH (Daniel Pitti),
>>>> list admin
>>>> David Sewell:
>>>>
>>>> tei-board
>>>> tei-council
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Membership Database:
>>>>
>>>> Veronica Lux (+ others??). Syd Bauman has r/o access.
>>>>
>>>> Perforce repository (at OUCS):
>>>>
>>>> Lou Burnard, chief administrator; others with r/w access
>>>> are Syd
>>>> Bauman, James Cummings, Sebastian Rahtz.
>>>>
>>>> Servers:
>>>>
>>>> www.tei-c.org.uk at Oxford, still used for Vault
>>>> (Sebastian Rahtz
>>>> and Lou Burnard)
>>>> tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, used for test Roma and Guidelines
>>>> (Sebastian Rahtz)
>>>> -- including Debian repository, administered by
>>>> Sebastian Rahtz
>>>> www.tei-c.org at U of Virginia, main TEI server,
>>>> administered by
>>>> Daniel Pitti
>>>>
>>>> SourceForge:
>>>>
>>>> Project admins are Syd Bauman, Lou Burnard, Sebastian
>>>> Rahtz. As of
>>>> these minutes, there are a total of 14 developers (with
>>>> rights to
>>>> update source), list viewable at
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?
>>>> group_id=106328.
>>>>
>>>> TEI Live CD source: owned by Sebastian Rahtz
>>>>
>>>> TEI Website (on www.tei-c.org):
>>>>
>>>> administered by Christine Ruotolo. Other people with read/
>>>> write
>>>> access to the OpenCMS repository used for the website: Lou
>>>> Burnard,
>>>> Sebastian Rahtz(??).
>>>>
>>>> TEI Wiki administrators:
>>>>
>>>> James Cummings (Council), Piotr Banski, Kevin Hawkins,
>>>> Sebastian
>>>> Rahtz. The system administrator in charge is Shayne
>>>> Brandon of IATH
>>>> at UVa.
>>>>
>>>> 4. Preparation for Galway meeting
>>>>
>>>> LR: Dates for the meeting are fixed, April 2-4. On Wednesday
>>>> the 2nd
>>>> there will be a symposium organized by Malte Rehbein, who has
>>>> issued a
>>>> Call for Papers. The Council meeting proper will take place on
>>>> the 3rd
>>>> and 4th. We don't have a specific plan for Council members to
>>>> participate in the symposium, but it is expected that we will
>>>> attend and
>>>> contribute. AC says that the organizers are focusing on
>>>> presentations
>>>> from the Irish TEI community. They will see how many local
>>>> presentations they have and will then ask Council if they need
>>>> supplementation. Susan Schreibman is the contact person/
>>>> organizer. LR
>>>> notes that we have a group hotel rate, so no need to worry about
>>>> lodging. We'll plan to start the Council meeting early on
>>>> Thursday, and
>>>> to end by 4 p.m. Friday afternoon. DO will post to tei-
>>>> council about
>>>> arrangements.
>>>>
>>>> Information about Council funding of the meeting is on the TEI
>>>> Wiki:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.tei-c.org/wiki/index.php/TEI-Council-
>>>> FAQ#What_funding_is_available_for_Council_Activities.3F
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager
>>>> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press
>>>> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA
>>>> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903
>>>> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973
>>>> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/
>>>> _______________________________________________ tei-council
>>>> mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://
>>>> lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD
>>> Department Chair and Associate Professor of English
>>> Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://
>>> www.digitalmedievalist.org/
>>> Chair, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/
>>>
>>> Department of English
>>> University of Lethbridge
>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>> Vox +1 403 329-2377
>>> Fax +1 403 382-7191
>>> Email: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca
>>> WWW: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> tei-council mailing list
>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>>>
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>>
>
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--
Dr Arianna Ciula
Research Associate
Centre for Computing in the Humanities
King's College London
2nd Floor
26-29 Drury Lane
London WC2B 5RL (UK)
Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945
http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/
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