[tei-council] Draft of 2008-02-07 conference call minutes
Lou's Laptop
lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk
Thu Feb 14 05:30:26 EST 2008
Laurent Romary wrote:
> I am not sure what a dittography is, but I guess "are key words are
> key words" is one...
>
I was going to make the same comment, which would have been another one!
GB: there is a fixed date in TEI timetable, the November meeting. Shall we say
-> LB
" a numbering language system" -> [no idea what this means maybe just "write up the numbering system"?]
"but we can Bylaws mandate, " -> [delete this]
"Members disagree over whether that venue should be SourceForge, LB arguing yes, SB and AC saying no."
-[I dont remember this disagreement being about where *discussion* of bugs etc should take place but maybe I'm wrong]
> Laurent
>
> Le 13 févr. 08 à 17:50, Daniel O'Donnell a écrit :
>
>
>> Looks good to me. I think it is an accurate reflection of the general
>> thrust of the discussion: there were one or two places where I thought
>> "is that really what x said?" but I think we wouldn't be able to get
>> more accurate without a meta-meeting and the conclusions are, as
>> far as
>> I'm aware, all accurate.
>>
>> I saw a couple of dittographies of a couple of words but now I can't
>> find them.
>>
>> The question-marked attributions to me are all things I'm willing to
>> have said ;)
>>
>> -dan
>>
>> On Wed, 2008-02-13 at 11:33 -0500, David Sewell wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Here is a preliminary text version of the minutes, which I'll plug
>>> into
>>> the XML template once it is final. Could everyone look it over and
>>> provide me with any necessary corrections or additional info? In
>>> particular:
>>>
>>> * search for '??' to see queries, mostly involving email list
>>> ownership
>>>
>>> * double-check attributions. I may not always have distinguished
>>> properly between Lou and Gabriel's voice (and possibly Sebastian
>>> once or
>>> twice), or between Paul and Dan. To give me better distinction in
>>> regional accents, I no doubt should have asked for ground rules at
>>> the
>>> start, e.g. "Lou, can we have you use a broad Scots dialect on this
>>> call, and Dan, could you emphasise the Canadian by doing either
>>> Bob and
>>> Doug McKenzie or Jean Chrétien, your choice?"
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> ==============
>>>
>>> MINUTES OF TEI COUNCIL CONFERENCE CALL, 7 FEBRUARY 2008
>>>
>>> Called to order 1300 UTC
>>>
>>> Participants:
>>>
>>> Gabriel Bodard (GB), Peter Boot (PB), Arianna Ciula (AC),
>>> James Cummings
>>> (JC), Syd Bauman (SB), Lou Burnard (LB), Dan O'Donnell (DO),
>>> Sebastian
>>> Rahtz (SR), David Sewell (DS; minutes), and Laurent Romary
>>> (LR; Chair).
>>>
>>> Unable to participate:
>>>
>>> Tone Bruvik, Elena Pierazzo, Manfred Thaller, and John
>>> Walsh.
>>>
>>> 1. Scope of Council Activities
>>>
>>> 1.1 Technical Activities
>>>
>>> 1.1.1 Guideline Status
>>>
>>> LR asks us to consider the current status of Guidelines. How
>>> are we
>>> handling updates and point releases? SR reminds us that he had
>>> raised the
>>> question of fixed release vs. varying bug-fix releases and had
>>> recommended a 2x per year schedule. GB, AC, and SB agreed that
>>> practice and
>>> consensus was for a fixed timetable. SR notes that the 1.0.1
>>> release is
>>> a "release zero", not a 6-month release. LR concurs: the next
>>> release
>>> will be over the summer, unless serious bugs appear. JC notes
>>> that
>>> everyone has access to Sourceforge for intermediate stages.
>>>
>>> Should we have "stable/unstable" distinction? It's helpful for
>>> people to
>>> test releases.
>>> GB: there is a fixed date in TEI timetable, the November
>>> meeting. Shall we say
>>> there will always be a pre-release of next major release
>>> before Nov?
>>>
>>> JC asks about about numbering of releases, so people can cite the
>>> version of the Guidelines they are using. SR: the only way to
>>> do this is
>>> by release dates, where the date is the version number. LR
>>> notes that a
>>> release is more than just a source version on SourceForge, it
>>> involves a
>>> lot of checking. DO asks if someone could just write up a
>>> numbering
>>> language system for us to put on a Web page? A new version
>>> number will
>>> be added when there is an actual feature/module change, not
>>> just changes
>>> to Guidelines language.
>>>
>>> LR: can we stabilize a formulation?
>>>
>>> Releases every 6 months; a pre-release before the November
>>> meeting; unstable SourceForge branches are maintained and
>>> identified
>>> by SourceForge revision number. A "release" consists of the
>>> SourceForge update, creation of compiled packages and
>>> schemas, and an
>>> update of the Guidelines (LB).
>>>
>>> 1.1.2 Bug reporting
>>>
>>> LR asks about the current situation with the stability of the
>>> Guidelines? do we still have major bugs, or just tiny issues
>>> over next
>>> months? JC: it's not clear where bug reports are going any
>>> more. LB: it
>>> is clear we want bug reports to go to SourceForge, into the
>>> tracker.
>>> But we haven't agreed on: (1) how to make sure Council
>>> provides input,
>>> or who is responsible; (2) the way to build a workflow to take
>>> suggestions & deal with them. DO: this will be an important
>>> thing to
>>> discuss in Galway. LB: is this channel best way of soliciting
>>> input? SB:
>>> no, many people are scared by SourceForge. We need to have an
>>> email/list
>>> mechanism. LB: then at the point in discussion where there is
>>> general
>>> agreement, someone needs to write it up as a SourceForge feature
>>> request. LR notes the gap between TEI-L and TEI Council. DO:
>>> So we need
>>> formally to keep an eye on TEI-L, and put into SourceForge bug
>>> reports
>>> and feature requests from there. JC: shouldn't all Council
>>> members do
>>> this? DO: but it helps to have someone designated. LR agrees;
>>> at the
>>> Member's Meeting, we discussed the dropping of Guideline
>>> "editors", with
>>> work on them organized by Council, but I strongly recommend we
>>> provide
>>> editorial support. We should make sure that Oxford has stable
>>> editorial
>>> support. DO: the decision was made to increase flexibility,
>>> not to
>>> remove input from the current editors. There is no mandate for
>>> "editors" in the (TEI Consortium) Bylaws, but we can Bylaws
>>> mandate, but
>>> we can still assign certain tasks as needed.
>>>
>>> LR recommends that Board discuss this matter; we need an "air
>>> traffic
>>> controller".
>>>
>>> There followed some additional discussion on bug reporting/
>>> tracking
>>> procedures. DS suggests the possibility of a Wiki area on the
>>> TEI Wiki
>>> for bug discussion. SB suggests having a single email address
>>> for bug
>>> reports. DO objects that this creates multiple unofficial
>>> channels for
>>> bug reports. We don't want multiple lists. SB replies that
>>> we're going
>>> to have this no matter what. LB replies we can insist on paying
>>> attention only to 2 places and having bug reports sent to
>>> specified
>>> venues. Members disagree over whether that venue should be
>>> SourceForge,
>>> LB arguing yes, SB and AC saying no. JC says that if bugs are
>>> to be
>>> discussed on an email list, surely that should be TEI-L. AC
>>> notes some
>>> people don't understand the distinctions between the different
>>> venues.
>>> We need a mechanism to facilitate communication for less
>>> technically
>>> adept users. DO asks, why not have a volunteer from Council as
>>> facilitator?
>>>
>>> LR: there's a problem with having too many tools. Let's have a
>>> clear
>>> mechanism. TEI-L is a good place for all these discussions;
>>> let us not
>>> have lots of side discussions.
>>>
>>> DO(??): Okay, let's use SourceForge as our single location, with
>>> mechanisms for helping people report who don't use
>>> SourceForge. LR:
>>> there should be tutorials on how to report. If we reduce
>>> number of
>>> tools, people can be more aware of them.
>>>
>>> DO: it sounds like we have identified a need for a release
>>> secretary and
>>> a SourceForge secretary, and an editorial support group.
>>>
>>> 1.2 Outreach, Education
>>>
>>> 1.2.1 ODD
>>>
>>> LR begins by suggesting that "exemplars" and "ODD" are key
>>> word are key
>>> words. One of main ways we can offer entry into the TEI
>>> environment is
>>> by adding ready-made schemas. SR cautions that if we create
>>> exemplars by
>>> committee, it will be difficult to get results. SB says that
>>> the current
>>> crop of exemplars are good for creating ODDs, but not so good for
>>> tackling various tasks. We don't have sample schemas that are
>>> good for
>>> encoding. For example: we don't show how to use constraints.
>>> SR observes
>>> that an exemplar constraining types might not be useful for
>>> individual
>>> needs. TEI Tite and TEI Lite, on the other hand, are intended
>>> to "be
>>> used"; LB concurs that whatever the original intentions behind
>>> Lite
>>> were, it is used as an "off the shelf" product. GB: we don't
>>> want
>>> example ODDs, we want example projects. Peter Boot notes word
>>> "exemplar" is ambiguous, especially for non-English speakers;
>>> can we
>>> find a better term? [Note from DS: Peter is right, and this is
>>> true in
>>> English as well. The New Oxford Dictionary of English
>>> definition of
>>> "exemplar" is "a person or thing serving as a typical example or
>>> appropriate model". The latter sense is normative; the former
>>> is not.]
>>>
>>> LB: this is what the TEI by Example project was supposed to
>>> provide.
>>> Unfortunately it's not doing that. It would be good to have
>>> set of
>>> examples of how people have solved things. JC agrees: "case
>>> studies".
>>> PB says this is an issue of the scope of Council: instead of
>>> doing this
>>> ourselves, we should figure out how to liaise w/ other groups
>>> doing
>>> these activities. General agreement.
>>>
>>> LR asks, what is status of ODD? Should we focus on
>>> improvements to ODD
>>> features? SB: yes, but we should defer this so we can address
>>> other
>>> issues first. SR agrees; this isn't a core business of Council
>>> in 2008;
>>> we should treat it as a parallel activity. LR objects that
>>> this ODD is
>>> in fact essential to outreach, as many TEI communities can
>>> contribute
>>> via ODD modules. The importance of ODD means it should be on
>>> our agenda
>>> (even if we don't make changes). GB concurs that it may be a
>>> mistake to
>>> segregate ODD activity; customizing TEI is a basic activity. Any
>>> outreach/education will connect with ODD.
>>>
>>> SR: We don't want to send the message "here's the language to
>>> use, but
>>> we're going to change it". ODD is unusual because it is tied
>>> up with the
>>> software that implements it.
>>>
>>> 1.2.2. Other Outreach and Internationalization Goals
>>>
>>> LR: Within Council, we should find a way to relate to external
>>> projects
>>> connected with TEI. We will integrate results of other groups;
>>> some of
>>> us will have duties to interact with specific ones. "I see
>>> more and more
>>> requests for short introductions on specific topics and offering
>>> examples." We could provide consultation on these matters. DO
>>> agrees:
>>> this has always been Council's duty. For example, current funding
>>> proposals before the National Endowment for the Humanities
>>> include two
>>> very TEI-centric projects.
>>>
>>> LR: This is true of internationalization also.
>>>
>>> Question: how do we identify the groups with which Council should
>>> interact? LR suggests this is part of Council's activity. DO asks
>>> whether we should issue invitations for groups who want Council
>>> involvement. JC notes that when someone comes to TEI-L an asks
>>> "can
>>> someone help me?" we need to provide a name. DO says this
>>> will become
>>> more and more important in funding projects.
>>>
>>> LR concludes: we should systematize the responsibility of these
>>> "corresponding persons". This will be added to the Galway meeting
>>> agenda.
>>>
>>> 3. Global organization of Council
>>>
>>> 3.1 Communication
>>>
>>> The next discussion involved the TEI's communication platforms,
>>> specifically the TEI website and our mailing lists. LR notes a
>>> need for
>>> Council workgroups or people to oversee both. The Board has
>>> appointed a
>>> website workgroup that we can provide input to.
>>>
>>> LB notes that service over the past year from Council email
>>> list has not
>>> been good; the server has been down too often. JC asks whether it
>>> wouldn't make sense to have all TEI email lists hosted on tei-
>>> c.org? SB
>>> raises a difficulty: the main list TEI-L is run on commercial
>>> software.
>>> No alternative software that he is aware of supports that
>>> level of
>>> service. Can we find open-source software? LB says that TEI-L is
>>> working fine and is not the issue. But perhaps the tei-council
>>> list
>>> should be moved. Level of service is more important than
>>> whether or not
>>> all the lists are in one place.
>>>
>>> LR summarizes that we need to confirm ongoing support for the
>>> lists at
>>> Virginia, or explore the possibility of merging or moving list
>>> hosts.
>>> DS offers to confer with his Virginia colleagues on that
>>> status of the
>>> system hosting the lists. [He reported back that
>>> lists.village.virginia.edu, the host for the TEI Council and
>>> Board email
>>> lists, is indeed in the process of being merged with the new
>>> tei-c.org
>>> host, which will have 24/7 tech support; and the IATH system
>>> administrator is looking into adding full-text search on the
>>> tei-council
>>> list archive.]
>>>
>>> 3.2 Responsibilities
>>>
>>> LR moves on to a discussion of general TEI Consortium
>>> responsibilities
>>> and Council's part in them. DO raises the issue of who "has
>>> the keys" to
>>> different things: who has responsibility, for example, for the
>>> SourceForge repository, for www.tei-c.org., etc? Should we
>>> survey who
>>> controls the different things we use? LR: Yes. if we know for
>>> example
>>> that U of Virgina has responsibility for the website, we need
>>> to have a
>>> single contact person. Likewise with Oxford's editorial
>>> support. DO: we
>>> don't have a single list of responsibilities. We should maybe put
>>> together before Galway meeting: SourceForge, mailing lists,
>>> website,
>>> Wiki... who has the passwords and oversight. SB agrees that
>>> such an
>>> inventory is important. LR asks that all "keyholders" please
>>> send a note
>>> to DS for inclusion in the minutes.
>>>
>>> 3.2.1 "Keyholders"
>>>
>>> DS received the following information on keyholding
>>> responsibilities for
>>> TEI resources:
>>>
>>> Mailing Lists (active):
>>>
>>> @ Brown University: Syd Bauman default admin, plus others in
>>> parentheses
>>>
>>> TEI-L
>>> TEI-MEET
>>> TEI-MEMBERS (Veronika Lux)
>>> TEI-MS-SIG (Elena Pierazzo)
>>> TEI-MUSIC-SIG (Raffaele Viglianti, Gabriel Board, Dot
>>> Porter)
>>> TEI-OL-SIG (David Durand)
>>> TEI-SIGS (Susan Schreibman)
>>> TEI-SOM (David Durand)
>>>
>>> @ Indiana University
>>>
>>> TEILIB-L [who is admin??]
>>>
>>> @ New York University
>>>
>>> tei-presentation [who is admin??]
>>>
>>> @ Oxford [who is admin??]
>>>
>>> tei-chars
>>> tei-extensions
>>> tei-i18n
>>> tei-iso-fs
>>> tei-meta
>>>
>>> @ SourceForge [same admins as SourceForge repository??]
>>>
>>> tei-choice
>>> tei-ontology-sig
>>>
>>> @ University of Virginia, hosted at IATH (Daniel Pitti),
>>> list admin
>>> David Sewell:
>>>
>>> tei-board
>>> tei-council
>>>
>>>
>>> Membership Database:
>>>
>>> Veronica Lux (+ others??). Syd Bauman has r/o access.
>>>
>>> Perforce repository (at OUCS):
>>>
>>> Lou Burnard, chief administrator; others with r/w access
>>> are Syd
>>> Bauman, James Cummings, Sebastian Rahtz.
>>>
>>> Servers:
>>>
>>> www.tei-c.org.uk at Oxford, still used for Vault
>>> (Sebastian Rahtz
>>> and Lou Burnard)
>>> tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, used for test Roma and Guidelines
>>> (Sebastian Rahtz)
>>> -- including Debian repository, administered by
>>> Sebastian Rahtz
>>> www.tei-c.org at U of Virginia, main TEI server,
>>> administered by
>>> Daniel Pitti
>>>
>>> SourceForge:
>>>
>>> Project admins are Syd Bauman, Lou Burnard, Sebastian
>>> Rahtz. As of
>>> these minutes, there are a total of 14 developers (with
>>> rights to
>>> update source), list viewable at
>>> https://sourceforge.net/project/memberlist.php?
>>> group_id=106328.
>>>
>>> TEI Live CD source: owned by Sebastian Rahtz
>>>
>>> TEI Website (on www.tei-c.org):
>>>
>>> administered by Christine Ruotolo. Other people with read/
>>> write
>>> access to the OpenCMS repository used for the website: Lou
>>> Burnard,
>>> Sebastian Rahtz(??).
>>>
>>> TEI Wiki administrators:
>>>
>>> James Cummings (Council), Piotr Banski, Kevin Hawkins,
>>> Sebastian
>>> Rahtz. The system administrator in charge is Shayne
>>> Brandon of IATH
>>> at UVa.
>>>
>>> 4. Preparation for Galway meeting
>>>
>>> LR: Dates for the meeting are fixed, April 2-4. On Wednesday
>>> the 2nd
>>> there will be a symposium organized by Malte Rehbein, who has
>>> issued a
>>> Call for Papers. The Council meeting proper will take place on
>>> the 3rd
>>> and 4th. We don't have a specific plan for Council members to
>>> participate in the symposium, but it is expected that we will
>>> attend and
>>> contribute. AC says that the organizers are focusing on
>>> presentations
>>> from the Irish TEI community. They will see how many local
>>> presentations they have and will then ask Council if they need
>>> supplementation. Susan Schreibman is the contact person/
>>> organizer. LR
>>> notes that we have a group hotel rate, so no need to worry about
>>> lodging. We'll plan to start the Council meeting early on
>>> Thursday, and
>>> to end by 4 p.m. Friday afternoon. DO will post to tei-
>>> council about
>>> arrangements.
>>>
>>> Information about Council funding of the meeting is on the TEI
>>> Wiki:
>>>
>>> http://www.tei-c.org/wiki/index.php/TEI-Council-
>>> FAQ#What_funding_is_available_for_Council_Activities.3F
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager
>>> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press
>>> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA
>>> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903
>>> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973
>>> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/
>>> _______________________________________________ tei-council
>>> mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://
>>> lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>>>
>> --
>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD
>> Department Chair and Associate Professor of English
>> Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://
>> www.digitalmedievalist.org/
>> Chair, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/
>>
>> Department of English
>> University of Lethbridge
>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>> Vox +1 403 329-2377
>> Fax +1 403 382-7191
>> Email: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca
>> WWW: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> tei-council mailing list
>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>>
>
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