From kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info Wed Jan 1 12:13:17 2014 From: kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info (Kevin Hawkins) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 12:13:17 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> On 12/31/13 2:00 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > But more importantly (and this is aimed mostly at Kevin, I guess), > the procedure outlined in the 2nd bulleted list item under > "Deprecated" in > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw27.xml is simply > wrong. We don't add a Schematron rule to the spec. All we do is add > @validUntil to the spec. The build process automatically generates > the Schematron rule by looking at @validUntil. Ah, that makes sense. I've just removed that step in the document. For your and everyone's reference, most pages on www.tei-org are rendered in HTML on the fly based on XSLT that transforms from TEI source. You can access the TEI source of any of these pages by clicking "XML View" at the bottom of the webpage. A few of us (James, Martin H., David Sewell, I, and possibly others) currently have access to the CMS that drives the website, allowing us to put up new versions of pages. I've never heard of a policy governing who can have access, and I think that if you and/or others are interested in being able to step in, you are welcome to join the club, though I don't mind making changes for people -- whether by sending a revised TEI file, a word-processor document with changes tracked, or a list of changes to make -- by emailing me directly once I'm removed from tei-council. I'm unclear on who administers access to the CMS: I think it was David Sewell who first taught me how to work with it. --Kevin From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Jan 1 13:12:12 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 13:12:12 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> Message-ID: <21188.23164.725326.362219@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > Ah, that makes sense. I've just removed that step in the document. Check, thanks. > ... I think that if you and/or others are interested in being able > to step in, you are welcome to join the club, ... While I don't mind relying on you or someone to update such documents for me, there are significant advantages to being able to update them directly. So you think one sends mail to David Sewell to join? -- Syd Bauman, EMT-Paramedic Senior XML Programmer/Analyst Northeastern University Women Writers Project s.bauman at neu.edu or Syd_Bauman at alumni.Brown.edu From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Jan 1 19:21:12 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:21:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) Message-ID: Can Council consider this suggestion from Alan Liu? I will let him know I have forwarded it to you. David ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:28:46 -0800 From: Alan Liu To: web at tei-c.org Subject: suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" Dear TEI: I've often cited Michael Sperberg-McQueen and Lou Burnard's influential "A Gentle Introduction to XML" over the years.? But I see that currently at its location (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/SG.html) there seems to be no visible author information.? Nor can I find visible credit for authorship of that document anywhere on the current TEI / P5 guidelines site. Can you restore the authorship info on the page?? That would be helpful when there is a need to cite the work, discuss it with others, etc. --Thanks, Alan Liu From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Jan 1 19:33:59 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:33:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Kevin Hawkins wrote: > I'm unclear on who administers access to the CMS: I think it was David > Sewell who first taught me how to work with it. "Admin" user for the TEI OpenCMS is still Christine Ruotolo...! But there are several users with "root admin" privileges: myself, Daniel Pitti, Julia Flanders, Shayne Brandon. That list should probably be updated. Other current users who could be given that role are Kevin, Lou, Martin, Elena, Sebastian, Stuart. I have rarely if ever tinkered with core OpenCMS settings as I don't understand them terribly well; having admin privileges means one can add/delete/edit users, though. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Jan 1 19:35:13 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 19:35:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <21188.23164.725326.362219@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> <21188.23164.725326.362219@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: Syd, just email me separately if you decide you want editing privileges. David On Wed, 1 Jan 2014, Syd Bauman wrote: >> Ah, that makes sense. I've just removed that step in the document. > > Check, thanks. > > >> ... I think that if you and/or others are interested in being able >> to step in, you are welcome to join the club, ... > > While I don't mind relying on you or someone to update such documents > for me, there are significant advantages to being able to update them > directly. So you think one sends mail to David Sewell to join? > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 1 19:53:05 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 00:53:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> As this topic comes up quite frequently, maybe we should consider adding a robust statement along the following lines somewhere in the front matter "Authorship of the Guidelines The text of these Guidelines is maintained and regularly updated by the TEI Technical Council in response to suggestions and criticisms received from the TEI community. Large parts of the text were originally provided by other contributors, individually or more usually as members of specific working groups, and then revised for publication in earlier versions of the work by the original TEI editors CM Sperberg-McQueen and Lou Burnard. Since the production of P5 in 2012 however, it is the Council which retains intellectual responsibility for all textual content, and is thus the only author that should be cited for the Guidelines. The Council acknowledges with pleasure the contributions made to the development of the Guidelines by all those individuals listed in Appendix G." I really don't want to go through the text saying who was responsible for authoring which bit (and you probably don't want me to anyway) L On 02/01/14 00:21, David Sewell wrote: > Can Council consider this suggestion from Alan Liu? I will let him > know I have forwarded it to you. > > David > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:28:46 -0800 > From: Alan Liu > To: web at tei-c.org > Subject: suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle > Introduction > to XML" > > > Dear TEI: > > I've often cited Michael Sperberg-McQueen and Lou Burnard's > influential "A Gentle Introduction to XML" > over the years. But I see that currently at its location > (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/SG.html) there > seems to be no visible author > information. Nor can I find visible credit for authorship of that > document anywhere on the current > TEI / P5 guidelines site. > > Can you restore the authorship info on the page? That would be > helpful when there is a need to cite > the work, discuss it with others, etc. > > --Thanks, Alan Liu > > From kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info Wed Jan 1 22:17:56 2014 From: kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info (Kevin Hawkins) Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2014 22:17:56 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C4DA64.2030009@ultraslavonic.info> This text is good, though I would insert "Technical" before "Council" to avoid confusion with the TEI's Board (of Directors), and I would also note that all Technical Council members are listed in the Preface and Acknowledgements ( http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/FM1.html ). What Lou wrote is explained at less detail at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/TitlePageRecto.html , which was recently added to the HTML version of the Guidelines and linked from http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ (see https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/426/ ). Perhaps it needs to be made more obvious here, or mentioned at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/ as well. --Kevin On 1/1/14 7:53 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > As this topic comes up quite frequently, maybe we should consider adding > a robust statement along the following lines somewhere in the front matter > > "Authorship of the Guidelines > > The text of these Guidelines is maintained and regularly updated by the > TEI Technical Council in response to suggestions and criticisms received > from the TEI community. Large parts of the text were originally provided > by other contributors, individually or more usually as members of > specific working groups, and then revised for publication in earlier > versions of the work by the original TEI editors CM Sperberg-McQueen and > Lou Burnard. Since the production of P5 in 2012 however, it is the > Council which retains intellectual responsibility for all textual > content, and is thus the only author that should be cited for the > Guidelines. The Council acknowledges with pleasure the contributions > made to the development of the Guidelines by all those individuals > listed in Appendix G." > > I really don't want to go through the text saying who was responsible > for authoring which bit (and you probably don't want me to anyway) > > L > > > > On 02/01/14 00:21, David Sewell wrote: >> Can Council consider this suggestion from Alan Liu? I will let him >> know I have forwarded it to you. >> >> David >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 12:28:46 -0800 >> From: Alan Liu >> To: web at tei-c.org >> Subject: suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle >> Introduction >> to XML" >> >> >> Dear TEI: >> >> I've often cited Michael Sperberg-McQueen and Lou Burnard's >> influential "A Gentle Introduction to XML" >> over the years. But I see that currently at its location >> (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/SG.html) there >> seems to be no visible author >> information. Nor can I find visible credit for authorship of that >> document anywhere on the current >> TEI / P5 guidelines site. >> >> Can you restore the authorship info on the page? That would be >> helpful when there is a need to cite >> the work, discuss it with others, etc. >> >> --Thanks, Alan Liu >> >> > From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Jan 1 22:21:14 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 22:21:14 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C44CAD.1050802@ultraslavonic.info> Message-ID: <21188.56106.525721.839075@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> This, IMHO, is not really TC business. But if I were the Board, I'd probably want to update this. Do Daniel or Julia hold any role in the TEI-C anymore? > "Admin" user for the TEI OpenCMS is still Christine Ruotolo...! But > there are several users with "root admin" privileges: myself, Daniel > Pitti, Julia Flanders, Shayne Brandon. > > That list should probably be updated. Other current users who could > be given that role are Kevin, Lou, Martin, Elena, Sebastian, Stuart. > > I have rarely if ever tinkered with core OpenCMS settings as I don't > understand them terribly well; having admin privileges means one can > add/delete/edit users, though. From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Jan 1 22:39:00 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 22:39:00 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21188.57172.317152.201766@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > As this topic comes up quite frequently, maybe we should consider > adding a robust statement ... Not sure; I think I might be with Lou on this. > I really don't want to go through the text saying who was responsible > for authoring which bit (and you probably don't want me to anyway) I am *really* with Lou on this -- it's a really bad idea to try to assign authorship to snippets of the Guidelines. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 2 00:20:17 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 21:20:17 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <21188.57172.317152.201766@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21188.57172.317152.201766@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C4F711.7080304@uvic.ca> I agree that a clear statement would be a good idea. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-01 07:39 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >> As this topic comes up quite frequently, maybe we should consider >> adding a robust statement ... > > Not sure; I think I might be with Lou on this. > > >> I really don't want to go through the text saying who was responsible >> for authoring which bit (and you probably don't want me to anyway) > > I am *really* with Lou on this -- it's a really bad idea to try to > assign authorship to snippets of the Guidelines. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 05:29:20 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:29:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <52C4F711.7080304@uvic.ca> References: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21188.57172.317152.201766@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C4F711.7080304@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A832C8F@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> It would seem very odd to give credit for some chapters and not others, unless the chapter is maintained separately. This does raise the question of the main title page, http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/TitlePageRecto.html, which (apart from looking ugly :-}) has Lou and Syd as named editors. I don?t know what the right incantation should be there, but I don?t think this conveys the best message. i am often glad i am no longer an academic for whom publication record is paramount, but some of the council are in this position, I think. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 05:33:26 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:33:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] suggest you restore visible authorship info for A Gentle Introduction to XML" (fwd) In-Reply-To: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C4B871.6090906@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 2 Jan 2014, at 00:53, Lou Burnard wrote: > Since the production of P5 in 2012 however hem hem. 2007. six long years ago? > ... > I really don't want to go through the text saying who was responsible > for authoring which bit (and you probably don't want me to anyway) I?d love you to, cos it would be very interesting ? but lets leave it for textual scholars of the future (who can amuse themselves with Subversion logs, inter alia). -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 05:41:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 10:41:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <21187.19486.652353.552591@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <96AD2913-D7D5-4DEE-B200-B01A0435EFB6@it.ox.ac.uk> <21187.19486.652353.552591@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A832F3E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 31 Dec 2013, at 22:58, Syd Bauman wrote: > > But certainly we could achieve the same effect without lying if we > just colored egXML[ancestor::*[@validUntil]] pink or some such. > having another allowed value for @valid, which mapped to a corresponding presentation () would be rather easy to implement, > (Of course, what we *really* want is much more complicated -- flag > any example that has a construct that itself is flagged as > validUntil.) if we only deprecated entire elements, this would not actually be very hard do. I am sort of tempted. but will restrain myself. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 06:13:50 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 11:13:50 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 30 Dec 2013, at 23:46, Syd Bauman wrote: > 4 out of 5 isn't bad. But as I look at the Guidelines today, there > are 425 elements that have both a child with versionDate= > and a child without versionDate=. Since s aren't > necessarily grouped by the example contained, some of these might be > OK. But I really doubt all 425 are -- I bet most are instances where > we should be putting @versionDate on the s that don't have > it. s are a bit harder to deal with than gloss/desc/remarks, for two reasons: a) the exempla in different languages are not translations; so because en English example has changed, it does not follow that the Chinese one should. b) the example are not identified/unique. So we cannot simply run the script which looks to see when an example has has changed at some point in time. I agree that having @versionDate is a good thing, but I don?t think its part of the same I18N issue. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 08:10:10 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:10:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] divliminality In-Reply-To: <52C0A6BF.4060703@ultraslavonic.info> References: <525FFFFE.9030608@retired.ox.ac.uk> <526185EE.8070400@ultraslavonic.info> <5262F9BB.9040405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5263C9F6.6080602@ultraslavonic.info> <52C0A6BF.4060703@ultraslavonic.info> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8337BB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 29 Dec 2013, at 22:48, Kevin Hawkins wrote: > In April 2012 we decided to have for a crowdsourced encoding exercise to > see how people treat things that occur at the start and end of divs, > which we hoped would help us resolve various tickets relating to these > elements. However, in November in Oxford we decided to go back to > trying to resolve these internally, and I think we made some progress. > Did we in fact solve all of them and decide that we don't need to do > this crowdsourced encoding exercise after all? The Oxford agreement just patched things up. It didn?t resolve the rift in the deep magic, which is that we don?t really have a consistent view of the signed/closer/opener things. We just allowed the encoder to use them any which way they want. Yes, this is worth working out one day. But I fear it may be a P6 thing, because finding the true names of things may break a million documents out there. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 09:10:15 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:10:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 02/01/14 11:13, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 30 Dec 2013, at 23:46, Syd Bauman wrote: > >> 4 out of 5 isn't bad. But as I look at the Guidelines today, there >> are 425 elements that have both a child with versionDate= >> and a child without versionDate=. Since s aren't >> necessarily grouped by the example contained, some of these might be >> OK. But I really doubt all 425 are -- I bet most are instances where >> we should be putting @versionDate on the s that don't have >> it. > s are a bit harder to deal with than gloss/desc/remarks, for > two reasons: > > a) the exempla in different languages are not translations; so because > en English example has changed, it does not follow that the Chinese > one should. > > b) the example are not identified/unique. So we cannot simply run the script > which looks to see when an example has has changed at some point in time. > > I agree that having @versionDate is a good thing, > but I don?t think its part of the same I18N issue. > -- > I disagree. Putting @versionDate on is a bad idea, for the reasons you give above. I would vote for removing @versionDate from all s From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 09:47:47 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 14:47:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 2 Jan 2014, at 14:10, Lou Burnard wrote: > > I disagree. Putting @versionDate on is a bad idea, for the > reasons you give above. I would vote for removing @versionDate from all > s if you think its a bad idea, you want it remove from att.translateable, then? On reflection, I am inclined to agree with you that they simply shouldn?t be dated at all, as the only point of dating is to compare translated with original. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 10:49:13 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 15:49:13 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc (was "Re: build failure") In-Reply-To: <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8343C1@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 31 Dec 2013, at 19:00, Syd Bauman wrote: > I think we're agreed that the wording I threw in there is not ideal, > although we've not concluded what the wording should be. Suggestions > so far (for an element; obviously would need to be slightly different > for other constructs): > > a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as > 2014-06-17 > > b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after > 2014-06-17 > > c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on > 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after > that date. d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 keep it simple? - no ?may? but ?will? - no uncommon abbreviations (?TEI-C?) - no geek phrases ( ?source code?) - no redundancy (its its removed on a certain date, then of course it won?t be available afterwards) -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 2 11:24:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 08:24:03 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> On 14-01-02 06:47 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 2 Jan 2014, at 14:10, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> >> I disagree. Putting @versionDate on is a bad idea, for the >> reasons you give above. I would vote for removing @versionDate from all >> s > > if you think its a bad idea, you want it remove from att.translateable, then? > > On reflection, I am inclined to agree with you that they simply shouldn?t be dated at all, > as the only point of dating is to compare translated with original. Surely it would be useful to be able to generate a list of s that use element X or attribute Y, and which have not been updated since before a change we made to element X or attribute Y? Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 12:07:52 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:07:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 02/01/14 16:24, Martin Holmes wrote: > On 14-01-02 06:47 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 2 Jan 2014, at 14:10, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>> I disagree. Putting @versionDate on is a bad idea, for the >>> reasons you give above. I would vote for removing @versionDate from all >>> s >> if you think its a bad idea, you want it remove from att.translateable, then? >> >> On reflection, I am inclined to agree with you that they simply shouldn?t be dated at all, >> as the only point of dating is to compare translated with original. > Surely it would be useful to be able to generate a list of s > that use element X or attribute Y, and which have not been updated since > before a change we made to element X or attribute Y? > > By the same argument, every child of a *Spec element should be dated! If we make a change which invalidates an example, we will detect it (I hope) irrespective of any use of versionDate. If we make a change which does not invalidate an example, why would we want to check it (other than in the normal way of checking that it's still a nice example)? Introducing versionDate on exemplum gives the completely misleading idea that exempla in different languages are simple translations one of another. There are many reasons why we might decide to change an example in language X: it does not follow *at all* that these would necessitate comparable changes in languages Y or Z. There is also the rather tricky technical issue that is not a member of att.identifiable, so you cannot point to it in the same way as other components. However, I think that's a separate issue (it would be nice if it were identifiable btw, because then you could suck exempla into the text in the same way as you currently can for ) From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 12:23:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:23:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 2 Jan 2014, at 17:07, Lou Burnard wrote: > > By the same argument, every child of a *Spec element should be dated! > yes, I agree. Martin?s scenario seems artificial to me. > There is also the rather tricky technical issue that is not a > member of att.identifiable, so you cannot point to it in the same way as > other components. However, I think that's a separate issue (it would be > nice if it were identifiable btw, because then you could suck exempla > into the text in the same way as you currently can for ) I don?t see an easy way to resolve this, unless we limit ourselves to one per *Spec/attDef, and allow multiple within it perhaps. Getting into an identifier for each example seems like going too far -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Thu Jan 2 14:04:26 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:04:26 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] divliminality In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8337BB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <525FFFFE.9030608@retired.ox.ac.uk> <526185EE.8070400@ultraslavonic.info> <5262F9BB.9040405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5263C9F6.6080602@ultraslavonic.info> <52C0A6BF.4060703@ultraslavonic.info> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8337BB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1388689466.7059.65875301.110B9970@webmail.messagingengine.com> Yep, on both counts. And the exercise was intended not simply to allow divergent practices that we knew about, but to discover divergent practices that we didn't. pfs On Thu, Jan 2, 2014, at 8:10, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 29 Dec 2013, at 22:48, Kevin Hawkins > wrote: > > > In April 2012 we decided to have for a crowdsourced encoding exercise to > > see how people treat things that occur at the start and end of divs, > > which we hoped would help us resolve various tickets relating to these > > elements. However, in November in Oxford we decided to go back to > > trying to resolve these internally, and I think we made some progress. > > Did we in fact solve all of them and decide that we don't need to do > > this crowdsourced encoding exercise after all? > > The Oxford agreement just patched things up. It didn?t resolve the > rift in the deep magic, which is that we don?t really have a consistent > view of the signed/closer/opener things. We just allowed the encoder > to use them any which way they want. > > Yes, this is worth working out one day. But I fear it may be a P6 > thing, because finding the true names of things may break a > million documents out there. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 14:16:12 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 19:16:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] divliminality In-Reply-To: <1388689466.7059.65875301.110B9970@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <525FFFFE.9030608@retired.ox.ac.uk> <526185EE.8070400@ultraslavonic.info> <5262F9BB.9040405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5263C9F6.6080602@ultraslavonic.info> <52C0A6BF.4060703@ultraslavonic.info> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8337BB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <1388689466.7059.65875301.110B9970@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A835401@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 2 Jan 2014, at 19:04, Paul Schaffner wrote: > Yep, on both counts. And the exercise was intended not simply > to allow divergent practices that we knew about, but to discover > divergent practices that we didn't. pfs > gasp! not the Pelnish lore??? I never thought to see that in this lifetime. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 2 16:53:20 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 16:53:20 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A832F3E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <96AD2913-D7D5-4DEE-B200-B01A0435EFB6@it.ox.ac.uk> <21187.19486.652353.552591@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A832F3E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21189.57296.21811.105534@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > having another allowed value for @valid, which mapped to a > corresponding presentation () would be rather easy to > implement, ? ? ? Oh. . Hmmm ... let's us deprecate examples, whether they are valid or not. > > (Of course, what we *really* want is much more complicated -- flag > > any example that has a construct that itself is flagged as > > validUntil.) > > if we only deprecated entire elements, this would not actually be > very hard do. I am sort of tempted. but will restrain myself. I, too, am intrigued at how to do this. May take a shot at it later, but right now I'm buried in (a) a significant re-write of extract-isosch.xsl to properly support namespaces, and (b) blizzard preparation. From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 2 17:13:15 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:13:15 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > yes, I agree. Martin?s scenario seems artificial to me. While it might be too far to call it "artificial", I confess that Martin's scenario does not convince me. For one, it requires a different semantic for versionDate=, which is explicitly about translation. > I don?t see an easy way to resolve this, unless we limit ourselves > to one per *Spec/attDef, and allow multiple > within it perhaps. Getting into an identifier for each example > seems like going too far Eeek! While I'm not convinced (either way) that giving s ident= attrs is going too far, restricting to 1 seems like a bad idea. Why not use to group language-equivalent s? two equivalent exmples ? ??? ????????? ???????????? ? two different examples, #1 Ever dance with the devil by the pale moonlight? ??? ??????????? ????????????, #2 ??????? villians ????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ????????. ???? ???? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????????? ? ?????? ???. At the moment it seems to make sense, although in my snow-fearing fever I may be missing something. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 2 19:18:18 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 00:18:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> , <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <4911AC8C-8871-4220-80D1-0CD129B86BDD@it.ox.ac.uk> Trouble is, there hasn't necessarily a 1:1 relationship between examples for each language, surely? The Chinese may decide to use two examples for our one. Sebastian Carved in stone on my iPad From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 2 23:21:07 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 23:21:07 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <4911AC8C-8871-4220-80D1-0CD129B86BDD@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <4911AC8C-8871-4220-80D1-0CD129B86BDD@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21190.15027.897984.930841@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Well, certainly the Chinese may choose to have two examples for where the English has only one. But in general only one of them would be a *translation* of the English; the other would just be an additional example, no? If that's often wrong, then I guess the idea doesn't work at all. But if it's the 90+% case, then we could make it so by editorial fiat. (You translators get to create 1 and only 1 *translation* of the English, although of cousre internationalizers can add more examples.) Dunno ... food for thought. > Trouble is, there hasn't necessarily a 1:1 relationship between > examples for each language, surely? The Chinese may decide to use > two examples for our one. Sebastian From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jan 3 01:35:08 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 22:35:08 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <21190.15027.897984.930841@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <4911AC8C-8871-4220-80D1-0CD129B86BDD@it.ox.ac.uk> <21190.15027.897984.930841@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C65A1C.9080904@uvic.ca> Surely some examples can't actually be translated, or don't make sense when they are? For instance, if I'm exemplifying in Chinese, I want to use a Chinese person; if I'm using and for Japanese I don't want to be using Shakespeare in English or Japanese, I want to quote Basho or someone like that. I would think it's rather unusual to find an example which can simply be directly translated, and still remain a good example. You might follow the model of the original in terms of the markup structure, but you would surely change the data, more often than not, wouldn't you? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-02 08:21 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > Well, certainly the Chinese may choose to have two examples for > where the English has only one. But in general only one of > them would be a *translation* of the English; the other would just be > an additional example, no? > > If that's often wrong, then I guess the idea doesn't work at all. But > if it's the 90+% case, then we could make it so by editorial fiat. > (You translators get to create 1 and only 1 *translation* of the > English, although of cousre internationalizers can add more > examples.) > > Dunno ... food for thought. > > >> Trouble is, there hasn't necessarily a 1:1 relationship between >> examples for each language, surely? The Chinese may decide to use >> two examples for our one. Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 3 04:21:00 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 09:21:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Things needing translation In-Reply-To: <21190.15027.897984.930841@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <5265C246.1060009@uvic.ca> <52664F92.6060102@ultraslavonic.info> <5266505E.2060807@it.ox.ac.uk> <52665D68.8050307@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A66EA9B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <526696F6.4060106@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A670083@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5266A28E.50206@uvic.ca> <21105.26843.193145.419281@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A6C43D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21186.1490.511066.817523@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8332FB@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C57347.5050403@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C592A3.4090000@uvic.ca> <52C59CE8.7080301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21189.58491.34789.149874@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <4911AC8C-8871-4220-80D1-0CD129B86BDD@it.ox.ac.uk> <21190.15027.897984.930841@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A835D78@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 3 Jan 2014, at 04:21, Syd Bauman wrote: > Well, certainly the Chinese may choose to have two examples for > where the English has only one. But in general only one of > them would be a *translation* of the English; the other would just be > an additional example, no? i don?t think ?translation? is the right word here. the I18N-er is asked to supply equivalent examples from the relevant culture, if all goes well. we do like examples to be genuine, after all. anyway, whats the problem we?re trying to solve here? there is no suggestion that the examples have fallen behind in the same way the desc/gloss have. of course we have many places where there is no example other than in English, and only French and Chinese have even started on localised examples. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 3 04:22:47 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 09:22:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] on deprecation doc In-Reply-To: <21189.57296.21811.105534@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21162.31063.624561.946920@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A7FA71D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21163.3138.915820.257771@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52AB21B7.5050700@ultraslavonic.info> <52AB36C3.3080707@uvic.ca> <21163.24116.255936.705153@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52BC6293.1080306@ultraslavonic.info> <21187.5170.187586.4192@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <96AD2913-D7D5-4DEE-B200-B01A0435EFB6@it.ox.ac.uk> <21187.19486.652353.552591@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A832F3E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21189.57296.21811.105534@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A835E0D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 2 Jan 2014, at 21:53, Syd Bauman wrote: >> having another allowed value for @valid, which mapped to a >> corresponding presentation () would be rather easy to >> implement, > > ? > ? >

L'element foreign s'applique ?galement aux termes consider?s ?trangers.

Pendant ce temps-l?, dans le bureau du rez- de-chauss?e, les secr?taires faisaient du hulla-hoop.

]]>
This is valid as it stands because of the (shudder) CDATA marked section. Remove that however and you get a validity error for the inner . Hmmm. I'm sure I understood this once. Maybe there's still too much christmas pudding in my brain. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Jan 4 09:48:53 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 09:48:53 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Indeed, that is an interesting problem and recurring problem. I think the only solutions are to either a) remove the restriction on nesting (I can't quite remember why we have it, at the moment) b) leave it as it is -- it doesn't get validated, such is life c) change it to an -- it doesn't get validated, such is life d) change the namespace of the internal element to something else, e.g., "http://www.tei-c.org/USE-PROPER-NAMESPACE-HERE", with an explanatory sentence in the prose. But as you're going through TD, I have some issues I was hoping to put up as FRs or bugs last week, but Sourceforge was giving me a hard time. So I started to write them up as e-mail to Council, but then get buried by extract-isosch.xsl (which I hope to check in by Mon) and the blizzard. I'll post now in case it's something that affects what you're doing, Lou, and as I won't be around for most of the day today. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Jan 4 09:50:44 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 09:50:44 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA Message-ID: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Sourceforge is not being cooperative right now, so I can't file a ticket, and I don't want to forget this. The prose of 22.4.4.3 Additional constraints needs some work. Mostly it says constraint when it means constraintSpec. But also, e.g. "outside the scope of conventional schema languages" asserts that rule-based schema languages are not conventional, which their more ardent adherents might wage war over. Also, the 2 examples of non-Schematron s are in the tagdocs for and , and for the former it is the only example. Certainly the tagdoc for should show Schematron constraints. But shouldn't the main prose demonstrate non-Schematron constraints? Other nit-picks: * I'm not happy with the value list of scheme= of ; it forecloses the possibility of publicly available general-purpose constraint languages we haven't thought of. And why use "xsl" to mean "XSLT"? * There are no examples of (or ... it's the same set of examples, of course) that demonstrate any content other than ( constraint ) or ( desc, constraint ). * What would an or child of look like, and more importantly, what would it *mean*? I'm planning to attack the obvious stuff myself and make tickets for the more controversial stuff, probably Mon or Tue next week. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 09:59:40 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 14:59:40 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C821DC.40209@retired.ox.ac.uk> Shee, this section certainly does need a bit of a stylistic makeover. I've just reached it, but am stopping for lunch now. Will try to act on as many as possible of your comments below. Unless I fall asleep after lunch of course. On 04/01/14 14:50, Syd Bauman wrote: > Sourceforge is not being cooperative right now, so I can't file a > ticket, and I don't want to forget this. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 10:08:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:08:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <04cd58e9-b7ce-4b57-abaa-fc613d196b29@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 14:35, Lou Burnard wrote: > I'm making a pass through TD checking that what it says about ODD is > still in line with our current practice, and have stumbled across the > following old chestnut. How do you include an example of an example > (using ) ? I never found a way, other than using literal characters < and > instead of real markup. Which is what CDATA does, of course. Why do you want to remove it? you could move it to just outside the egXML if you like. if you can find a way to make egXML work inside egXML, I am interested. Shouldn?t mean more than 6 or 7 hours work for an XSL expert[1] on the stylesheets with a wet tool round the head :-} [1] such as Jeni Tennison *OBE* [2], ooer gosh so they give medels to gurls now?[3] [2] for those members of the Council who don?t get this, Jeni Tennison is a very bright light indeed in the XML, XSL, RDF and LOD worlds, and was honoured at Christmas with a nice award, the Order of the British Empire - yes, well, sorry about that, but its what they give to people who do good. and others, [3] this is one of those Molesworth things James warns about periodically[4] -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 10:21:07 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:21:07 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A838E0D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 14:48, Syd Bauman wrote: > Indeed, that is an interesting problem and recurring problem. I think > the only solutions are to either > > a) remove the restriction on nesting (I can't quite remember > why we have it, at the moment) I?d start by seeing if it actually works with the current processing chain first, then worry about validity. One or other of the two may be easy to fix. Or even both. Stranger things have happened. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 10:59:43 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 15:59:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A838D6A@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A838D6A@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C82FEF.9000409@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 04/01/14 15:08, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > for an XSL expert[1] on the stylesheets with a wet tool round the head :-} A wet tool? shirley shum nishmake herb? [4] From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 11:06:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:06:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <52C82FEF.9000409@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A838D6A@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C82FEF.9000409@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 4 Jan 2014, at 15:59, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 04/01/14 15:08, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> for an XSL expert[1] on the stylesheets with a wet tool round the head :-} > > A wet tool? shirley shum nishmake herb? [4] the suggested tool is a towel. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 12:15:51 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 17:15:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 04/01/14 14:50, Syd Bauman wrote: > he prose of 22.4.4.3 Additional > constraints needs some work. Mostly it says constraint > when it means constraintSpec. But also, e.g. "outside the > scope of conventional schema languages" asserts that rule-based > schema languages are not conventional, which their more ardent > adherents might wage war over. I've revised that section quite a bit: will check it in later tonight so you can see if you think it's improving. > Also, the 2 examples of non-Schematron s are in the > tagdocs for and , and for the former it > is the only example. Certainly the tagdoc for should > show Schematron constraints. But shouldn't the main prose demonstrate > non-Schematron constraints? Even more surprisingly, imo, the main text doesn't even explain what the dickens this "schematron" thing is -- no mention of e.g. ISO/IEC 19757-3:2006 Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL) -- Part 3: Rule-based validation -- Schematron anywhere that I can see. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 4 12:31:37 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 09:31:37 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> I'm also supposed to be adding documentation and an example for to that chapter. I'll hold off until you've both finished your work. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-04 09:15 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 04/01/14 14:50, Syd Bauman wrote: >> he prose of 22.4.4.3 Additional >> constraints needs some work. Mostly it says constraint >> when it means constraintSpec. But also, e.g. "outside the >> scope of conventional schema languages" asserts that rule-based >> schema languages are not conventional, which their more ardent >> adherents might wage war over. > > I've revised that section quite a bit: will check it in later tonight so > you can see if you think it's improving. > >> Also, the 2 examples of non-Schematron s are in the >> tagdocs for and , and for the former it >> is the only example. Certainly the tagdoc for should >> show Schematron constraints. But shouldn't the main prose demonstrate >> non-Schematron constraints? > > Even more surprisingly, imo, the main text doesn't even explain what the > dickens this "schematron" thing is -- no mention of e.g. ISO/IEC > 19757-3:2006 > Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL) -- > Part 3: Rule-based validation -- Schematron anywhere that I can see. > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 12:43:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 17:43:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A839373@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 17:31, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm also supposed to be adding documentation and an example for > to that chapter. I'll hold off until you've both finished your work. I suggest you leave aside for the moment. I may still be able to kill it by using . -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 4 13:18:29 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 10:18:29 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A839373@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A839373@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C85075.20808@uvic.ca> On 14-01-04 09:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 4 Jan 2014, at 17:31, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I'm also supposed to be adding documentation and an example for >> to that chapter. I'll hold off until you've both finished your work. > > I suggest you leave aside for the moment. I may still be able to kill it > by using . OK. That's another thing off my list. :-) But how can you use to refer to an attribute that's defined directly on an element? Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 4 13:26:27 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 10:26:27 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Reminder to update the Oxford Actions page Message-ID: <52C85253.4060903@uvic.ca> Hi all, Just a reminder to everyone who has actions arising out of the the Oxford 2013 face-to-face to update the Actions page on the wiki: to show what you've completed. If you're not used to wiki editing and you'd rather have me do it, let me know the details and I'll update the page. Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 17:45:29 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 22:45:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> I've now checked in a revised version of the TD chapter. Most revisions are simplifications and clarifications of what it says, mostly about constraintSpecs and datatypes. I added one non-schematron example, but a better one would still be useful. I get an error message on my local build because of the reference to @source on the for presumably because this attribute is inherited from a class rather than locally defined. Which I thought we'd agreed it shouldn't. ??? Sorry for the delay: Oxygen crashed on me for the first time in years. On 04/01/14 17:31, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm also supposed to be adding documentation and an example for > to that chapter. I'll hold off until you've both finished your work. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-04 09:15 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: >> On 04/01/14 14:50, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> he prose of 22.4.4.3 Additional >>> constraints needs some work. Mostly it says constraint >>> when it means constraintSpec. But also, e.g. "outside the >>> scope of conventional schema languages" asserts that rule-based >>> schema languages are not conventional, which their more ardent >>> adherents might wage war over. >> I've revised that section quite a bit: will check it in later tonight so >> you can see if you think it's improving. >> >>> Also, the 2 examples of non-Schematron s are in the >>> tagdocs for and , and for the former it >>> is the only example. Certainly the tagdoc for should >>> show Schematron constraints. But shouldn't the main prose demonstrate >>> non-Schematron constraints? >> Even more surprisingly, imo, the main text doesn't even explain what the >> dickens this "schematron" thing is -- no mention of e.g. ISO/IEC >> 19757-3:2006 >> Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL) -- >> Part 3: Rule-based validation -- Schematron anywhere that I can see. >> >> From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 17:56:48 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 22:56:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification Message-ID: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> Thinking about pure ODD, it occurs to me that it would be very useful if one could treat s in the same way as s -- i.e. by adding the attributes @include and @exclude to it would be possible inside an elementSpec to do things like (a) as a short way of suppressing a bunch of attributes or (b) as a neat way of saying which attributes I do want. Similarly, for model classes, it would be really nice to be able to say inside a content model something like (c) which would not interfere with seg appearing elsewhere in a content model, but would suppress it from inside in a tidy way. Anyone object to my adding these two attributes as part of the pure ODD work? From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 4 18:06:07 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:06:07 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> On 14-01-04 02:45 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > I've now checked in a revised version of the TD chapter. Most revisions > are simplifications and clarifications of what it says, mostly about > constraintSpecs and datatypes. I added one non-schematron example, but a > better one would still be useful. > > I get an error message on my local build because of the reference to > @source on the for presumably because this attribute > is inherited from a class rather than locally defined. Which I thought > we'd agreed it shouldn't. ??? This shouldn't cause a problem -- the Note on @atts says "The attribute names listed may include both attributes inherited from a class and those defined explicitly for the associated element." And yet the ValidatorLog.xml does show specDesc: TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["TD"]/div["TDcrystalsCE"]/div["TDeg"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ refers to source in egXML, which does not exist I wonder if this is a namespace issue? is in a different namespace, and this is AFAIK the only place in the Guidelines where a specDesc for a non-TEI-namespace element attempts to retrieve attributes from an attribute class. Cheers, Martin > Sorry for the delay: Oxygen crashed on me for the first time in years. > > > > On 04/01/14 17:31, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I'm also supposed to be adding documentation and an example for >> to that chapter. I'll hold off until you've both finished your work. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-01-04 09:15 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: >>> On 04/01/14 14:50, Syd Bauman wrote: >>>> he prose of 22.4.4.3 Additional >>>> constraints needs some work. Mostly it says constraint >>>> when it means constraintSpec. But also, e.g. "outside the >>>> scope of conventional schema languages" asserts that rule-based >>>> schema languages are not conventional, which their more ardent >>>> adherents might wage war over. >>> I've revised that section quite a bit: will check it in later tonight so >>> you can see if you think it's improving. >>> >>>> Also, the 2 examples of non-Schematron s are in the >>>> tagdocs for and , and for the former it >>>> is the only example. Certainly the tagdoc for should >>>> show Schematron constraints. But shouldn't the main prose demonstrate >>>> non-Schematron constraints? >>> Even more surprisingly, imo, the main text doesn't even explain what the >>> dickens this "schematron" thing is -- no mention of e.g. ISO/IEC >>> 19757-3:2006 >>> Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Languages (DSDL) -- >>> Part 3: Rule-based validation -- Schematron anywhere that I can see. >>> >>> > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 4 18:14:07 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 15:14:07 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C895BF.2020804@uvic.ca> I see no objection to this. I've been thinking that all attributes ought to be obtained through classes. I'm sure someone's suggested this many times, but it would solve the problem with classRef having to be able to point to an element to get an attribute defined on it. Where currently we define attributes only on elements, we could simply create a class named after the element. For instance, has @status and @method; these could reside in a class called att.correction, whose only member (initially at least) would be . Then if other elements needed those attributes, the class might be renamed to avoid confusion. There would be the slight problem of being able to assign several versions of identically-named attributes (@type, for instance) to the same element, but I think we already have that issue, don't we? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-04 02:56 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > Thinking about pure ODD, it occurs to me that it would be very useful if > one could treat s in the same way as s -- i.e. by > adding the attributes @include and @exclude to it would be > possible inside an elementSpec to do things like > > (a) > > as a short way of suppressing a bunch of attributes > > or > > (b) > > as a neat way of saying which attributes I do want. > > Similarly, for model classes, it would be really nice to be able to say > inside a content model something like > > (c) > > which would not interfere with seg appearing elsewhere in a content > model, but would suppress it from inside in a tidy way. > > Anyone object to my adding these two attributes as part of the pure ODD > work? > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 4 18:41:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2014 23:41:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 23:06, Martin Holmes wrote: > This shouldn't cause a problem -- the Note on @atts says "The attribute > names listed may include both attributes inherited from a class and > those defined explicitly for the associated element." And yet the > ValidatorLog.xml does show > > specDesc: > TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["TD"]/div["TDcrystalsCE"]/div["TDeg"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ > refers to source in > egXML, which does not exist > > I wonder if this is a namespace issue? is in a different > namespace, and this is AFAIK the only place in the Guidelines where a > specDesc for a non-TEI-namespace element attempts to retrieve attributes > from an attribute class. I?m puzzled by this, I thought the changes in validator.xsl were all done weeks ago. looking at the log: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r12695 | sbauman | 2013-12-13 02:30:23 +0000 (Fri, 13 Dec 2013) | 1 line mild modification of how ValidatorLog is produced; new expected ValidatorLog based on Stylesheet changes for partial implimentation of SF FR 459, checked into gitHub a few mins ago ------------------------------------------------------------------------ r12688 | rahtz | 2013-12-10 17:37:39 +0000 (Tue, 10 Dec 2013) | 1 line fix checking of @atts in specDesc, to allow for inherited attributes suggests to me that Syd overwrote my changes of December 10th with his changes on December 13th. I have put back the fixed templates, hopefully that?ll fix it. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 06:45:48 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:45:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> the current P5 build fails with this error: > > "certainty" in specDesc: TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["CE"]/div["CECERT"]/div["CECECE"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ refers to attribute "locus" which does not exist > "certainty" in specDesc: TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["CE"]/div["CECERT"]/div["CECECE"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ refers to attribute "degree" which does not exist > Why, you ask, since does have an attribute ?locus?? well, it?s a laxness on the checking script which looks for things with an @ident of ?certainty? when it meets ; which falls foul of the fact that we have two things called ?certainty?: Source/Specs/certainty.xml: Source/Guidelines/en/CE-CertaintyResponsibility.xml: the current P5 build fails with this error: > >> >> "certainty" in specDesc: TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["CE"]/div["CECERT"]/div["CECECE"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ refers to attribute "locus" which does not exist >> "certainty" in specDesc: TEI[1]/text[2]/body[3]/div["CE"]/div["CECERT"]/div["CECECE"]/p[7]/specList[8]/ refers to attribute "degree" which does not exist >> > Why, you ask, since does have an attribute ?locus?? well, it?s a laxness on the checking script which looks for things > with an @ident of ?certainty? when it meets ; which falls foul of the fact that we have two > things called ?certainty?: > > Source/Specs/certainty.xml: > Source/Guidelines/en/CE-CertaintyResponsibility.xml: > b) establish as a point of principle that there is a single name space > for the identifiers of all identifiable objects (modules, elements, > classes, macros...) and document this in tcw21 I agree thats what we should do. but not this close to a release - I suspect there are places where lists of modules are hardwired, and it may take a while to flush them out. also, the identifier ?certaintyModule? breaks a pattern of meaningful names, so it needs a better alternative. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 07:46:21 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:46:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 05/01/14 11:56, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > also, the identifier ?certaintyModule? breaks a pattern of meaningful > names, so it needs a better alternative. you think the other module names (eg "namesdates"?) are all "meaningful"? well ok, how about "uncertainty" or "doubt" ? but i agree: not for the forthcoming release. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 07:53:14 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 12:53:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 12:46, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 05/01/14 11:56, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> also, the identifier ?certaintyModule? breaks a pattern of meaningful names, so it needs a better alternative. > > you think the other module names (eg "namesdates"?) are all "meaningful?? they follow a pattern of picking word(s) from the module title, more or less we could just suffix them all with ?Module?, to avoid doubt. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 09:54:04 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:54:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C85075.20808@uvic.ca> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A839373@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C85075.20808@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B56E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 18:18, Martin Holmes wrote: > > But how can you use to refer to an attribute that's defined directly on an element? > you can?t. we?d have to decide whether we support that -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From s.bauman at neu.edu Sun Jan 5 09:55:59 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 09:55:59 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Lou -- have downloaded new TD, am building now. Plan to take a look shortly, hopefully before lunch. Sebastian -- if I overwrote your changes (which seems likely), my aplogies. Issuing `svn up` isn't that tough, so there's really no excuse ... That said, I'm trying to see the details of what's happened to this file, and can't figure out how to ask Sourceforge to show me. I am guessing that I'm supposed to get to http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/P5/Utilities/validator.xsl?diff=51405195e88f3d0a27d895ee:12730&diformat=sidebyside and then click on "Brose Commits", but that button just loads a page that says "Loading commits ..." indefinitely. (Same in Firefox and Chrome.) > I have put back the fixed templates, hopefully that?ll fix it. Since I can't see for myself[1], just checking -- did you revert to before my 2013-12-13 changes or fold your changes of 12-11 in? (So both sets of improvements should be running?) Notes ----- [1] Of course, I could see for myself if I were willing to just check out each version involved and look. But Sourceforge is supposed to make this easy. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 09:58:09 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:58:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <52C895BF.2020804@uvic.ca> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C895BF.2020804@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B5AF@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 4 Jan 2014, at 23:14, Martin Holmes wrote: > I've been thinking that all attributes ought to be obtained through > classes. as a long-term plan, i agree its arguably desirable to have no directly-attached attributes, but I am not sure its practical at the moment. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 10:00:10 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:00:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B5DA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 14:55, Syd Bauman wrote: > That said, I'm trying to see the details of what's happened to this > file just "svn log Utilities/validator.xsl? on the command line, and then judicious use of svn diff? > > Since I can't see for myself[1], just checking -- did you revert to > before my 2013-12-13 changes or fold your changes of 12-11 in? the latter! -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From s.bauman at neu.edu Sun Jan 5 10:22:22 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 10:22:22 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21193.30894.261482.220649@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I like (a) and (b) a lot. I think I like (c), too, but less sure, for two reasons: 1. worried it can result in confusion 2. I don't see off top of my head how it would be implemented. But if it is implementable and well documented, I am inclined to say we should go for it. > Thinking about pure ODD, it occurs to me that it would be very useful > if one could treat s in the same way as s -- > i.e. by adding the attributes @include and @exclude to it > would be possible inside an elementSpec to do things like > > (a) > > as a short way of suppressing a bunch of attributes > > or > > (b) > > as a neat way of saying which attributes I do want. > > Similarly, for model classes, it would be really nice to be able to > say inside a content model something like > > (c) > > which would not interfere with seg appearing elsewhere in a content > model, but would suppress it from inside in a tidy way. > > Anyone object to my adding these two attributes as part of the pure > ODD work? From kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info Sun Jan 5 10:55:00 2014 From: kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info (Kevin Hawkins) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 10:55:00 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52C98054.6050301@ultraslavonic.info> On 1/5/14 9:55 AM, Syd Bauman wrote: > That said, I'm trying to see the details of what's happened to this > file, and can't figure out how to ask Sourceforge to show me. I am > guessing that I'm supposed to get to > http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/P5/Utilities/validator.xsl?diff=51405195e88f3d0a27d895ee:12730&diformat=sidebyside > and then click on "Brose Commits", but that button just loads a page > that says "Loading commits ..." indefinitely. (Same in Firefox and > Chrome.) FWIW, I recall encountering this at some point as well. I think I went back later and found it working again. --Kevin From s.bauman at neu.edu Sun Jan 5 12:35:47 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 12:35:47 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > establish as a point of principle that there is a single name space > for the identifiers of all identifiable objects (modules, elements, > classes, macros...) and document this in tcw21 I may be misunderstanding, but this seems like it might tie us down later on. What if someday we want a or element? Or what do we do with ident=s of the current and org=? I'm wondering if we wouldn't do better to have a single name space for each *type* of identifiable object. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sun Jan 5 12:41:04 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 12:41:04 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] constraint prose WINITA In-Reply-To: <52C98054.6050301@ultraslavonic.info> References: <21192.8132.113812.540060@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C841C7.7010504@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C84579.5090705@uvic.ca> <52C88F09.9000102@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C893DF.6040001@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83A264@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.29311.585060.223408@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52C98054.6050301@ultraslavonic.info> Message-ID: <21193.39216.705221.749225@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> SR> the latter! Excellent, thanks. KH> FWIW, I recall encountering [SF hanging on "Brose Commits"] at some KH> point as well. I think I went back later and found it working KH> again. Nice to know it isn't that SF has a "Syd bit". From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 12:51:30 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:51:30 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I just went through the process of making a Stylesheets release, in order to fix a high profile bug reported on Saturday (if you used the @prefix on schemaSpec and made a DTD, it was a mess). i mention this ?cos: a) it demonstrates that the install script seems to run fine so far on the new TEI web server[1] b) I really don?t want to change stylesheets again before the P5 release in a week or two unless its really essential so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? [1] however, the setup is not what we document. I just made a copy of the script and ran it in /tmp, but that?s not very sustainable. So I have checked out P5 in ~tei/private/P5, which means that what the release technician will do is: * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org * cd private/P5 * svn up * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=2.6.0 # vel sim the install of TEIP5 is untested as yet, of course, as is the step of rebuilding the eXist database for Roma. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 12:56:57 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 17:56:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BAE4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 17:35, Syd Bauman wrote: >> establish as a point of principle that there is a single name space >> for the identifiers of all identifiable objects (modules, elements, >> classes, macros...) and document this in tcw21 > > I may be misunderstanding, but this seems like it might tie us down > later on. What if someday we want a or element? then we?d make them have unique identifiers? > Or > what do we do with ident=s of the current and org=? eh? doesn?t have @ident. > I'm wondering if we wouldn't do better to have a single name space > for each *type* of identifiable object. that?s a given, I think, and where we are now. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jan 5 12:57:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 09:57:59 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B5AF@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C895BF.2020804@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B5AF@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C99D27.2000805@uvic.ca> On 14-01-05 06:58 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 4 Jan 2014, at 23:14, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I've been thinking that all attributes ought to be obtained through >> classes. > > as a long-term plan, i agree its arguably desirable to have no directly-attached attributes, > but I am not sure its practical at the moment. We do seem to be looking at a host of fairly major suggested changes to ODD and ODD processing at the moment, so perhaps we need a little working group to come up with a full-scale proposal. Once the text-direction stuff is off my table, I'd be happy to get involved with that; I'm supposed to be doing various documentation enhancements to our page on getting started with ODDs, and it would be good to write a complete revision of that page as part of a larger process to improve the overall system. I think this would be a major simplification, actually, don't you? @idents could be prefaced with the class name and thus be globally (in the world of P5) unique. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 13:08:17 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 18:08:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <52C99D27.2000805@uvic.ca> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52C895BF.2020804@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83B5AF@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C99D27.2000805@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BBAF@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 17:57, Martin Holmes wrote: > > We do seem to be looking at a host of fairly major suggested changes to ODD and ODD processing at the moment, so perhaps we need a little working group to come up with a full-scale proposal. Once the text-direction stuff is off my table, I'd be happy to get involved with that; I'm supposed to be doing various documentation enhancements to our page on getting started with ODDs, and it would be good to write a complete revision of that page as part of a larger process to improve the overall system. > I am torn between saying ?yes, since we?re tearing everything apart with nuODD, lets do this as well? and ?change as few things as possible at a time?. Since what you propose is a convention about how the TEI uses ODD, not a change to ODD itself, or the processing, I incline to the latter view today. The facility you suggest of an element pointing at the attribute of another element is not actually needed at the moment, after all. > I think this would be a major simplification, actually, don't you? @idents could be prefaced with the class name and thus be globally (in the world of P5) unique. hmm, i am not sure that we have agreed on a problem we?re trying to solve?. simply pushing all attributes into classes would result in creating 183 new classes, which would interfaces in a scary way. of course, along the way, we?d merge some of them, but all the easy ones have been done already in the Great Class War. I?d suggest that the higher priority is taking those element-specific attributes which are only distinct because they have a different description, valList or more constrained datatype than the similarly-named attribute in a class, and doingf the local modification. Once we have done that, we end up with a more coherent TEI and a much small problem space. imho :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 13:30:18 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 18:30:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52C9A4BA.5090109@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 05/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which > will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? I've just added @include and @exclude to , but I haven't mentioned them in the chapter yet. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 14:08:32 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 19:08:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52C9A4BA.5090109@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9A4BA.5090109@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7d78f900-b7c6-43c5-9442-1abfd52c915d@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 18:30, Lou Burnard wrote: >> so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which >> will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? > > I've just added @include and @exclude to , but I haven't > mentioned them in the chapter yet. Kind of bad practice, to be honest? I know i am as guilty as the next man, but adding features to ODD which aren?t implemented at all seems unwise, compounded by then not explaining them? after all, serious ODD users (if there are any! I know there are odd serious users..) will find these things and try to use ?em. I?m light years away from understanding how to implement this facility (though I entirely agree with its elegance), either in schema processing or making documentation. There?s a whole shed load of ramifications. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From s.bauman at neu.edu Sun Jan 5 14:43:59 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 14:43:59 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21193.46591.235919.752854@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I'm still in the middle of working on extract-isosch.xsl ... by when would you want it done? (I've just committed this afternoon to bug 468, but could get back to extract-isosche.xsl as early as this evening; don't know how much is left, though.) > so if there were or are things that people are working on for their > open tickets which will need changes to the ODD processing, can they > flag them up ASAP? From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 5 17:47:17 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 22:47:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <21193.46591.235919.752854@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.46591.235919.752854@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83C86F@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jan 2014, at 19:43, Syd Bauman wrote: > I'm still in the middle of working on extract-isosch.xsl ... by when > would you want it done? (I've just committed this afternoon to bug > 468, but could get back to extract-isosche.xsl as early as this > evening; don't know how much is left, though.) don?t worry, just keep working. we don?t have to have a Stylesheets actually _ release_ in order to release P5. the changes you are making are unlikely to be needed by your average user, I think. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From stadler at edirom.de Mon Jan 6 08:35:39 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 14:35:39 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman : >> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the availability >> of the release technician. Did we have a volunteer? PeterS?) > > FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release technician as I was > jipped out of a lot of it last time due to a power failure. But I'm > more than happy to wait until some other release. Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! Please, go ahead and I will wait for another chance. Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140106/c847eb1d/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 6 12:44:47 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:44:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: > Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman : >>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the availability >>> of the release technician. Did we have a volunteer? PeterS?) >> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release technician as I was >> jipped out of a lot of it last time due to a power failure. But I'm >> more than happy to wait until some other release. > Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! > Please, go ahead and I will wait for another chance. If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely fresh eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are still willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of assistants will probable be present especially given the change of server. I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the holidays (and behind in most of my actions). -james -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 6 16:36:43 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 21:36:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] FR 474 Message-ID: <52CB21EB.6050605@it.ox.ac.uk> I added an example to @ref on att.canonical for FR 474 as actioned at the last F2F. However, see my latest comment on: https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/474/#b44c There is a remark following the definition of @ref that says: === The value must point directly to one or more XML elements by means of one or more URIs, separated by whitespace. If more than one is supplied, the implication is that the name identifies several distinct entities. === I would suggest that saying it 'must point directly to one or more XML elements' is incorrect and goes against other examples in the Guidelines (e.g. we use persName/@ref to point to wikipedia). If anyone has some suggested rephrasings of this remark, I'd appreciate it if they added them to the ticket. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 7 07:50:24 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:50:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Yes, sure, I?m still willing but I would in no way be disappointed if anyone else did the job. I?d really like to leave the decision to those who are more experienced with council work. If you prefer fresh eyes (and are willing to support during the process) I can give it a try, if you think it?s better to have someone more familiar with all the tool boxes it?s ok for me as well! Best Peter Am 06.01.2014 um 18:44 schrieb James Cummings : > On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman : >>>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the availability >>>> of the release technician. Did we have a volunteer? PeterS?) >>> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release technician as I was >>> jipped out of a lot of it last time due to a power failure. But I'm >>> more than happy to wait until some other release. >> Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! >> Please, go ahead and I will wait for another chance. > > If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely fresh > eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are still > willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of assistants > will probable be present especially given the change of server. > > I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the > holidays (and behind in most of my actions). > > -james > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140107/603de563/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 08:16:25 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 13:16:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> On 07/01/14 12:50, Peter Stadler wrote: > Yes, sure, I?m still willing but I would in no way be > disappointed if anyone else did the job. I?d really like to > leave the decision to those who are more experienced with > council work. If you prefer fresh eyes (and are willing to > support during the process) I can give it a try, if you think > it?s better to have someone more familiar with all the tool > boxes it?s ok for me as well! Hi Peter (and Council), Don't worry, I don't think you are stepping on Syd's toe's too much, he can do it next time, and I think there are real benefits to having you do it. (Fresh eyes certainly, but also expanding the circle of people who have done it and so have experience in doing so.) Can you be free on Monday 20 January? (The originally suggested date) We will need to change some of the steps in http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml since the way you log into the server has changed. But please do sit down and read it. Take note of the steps and ask about any you don't understand. According to our schedule we are currently in the 'repository chill'. This means we should not be doing any new implementations, but updates to prose, etc. are allowed. This also means that I will be announcing the pending release to TEI-L soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of revision 12749. *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the P5-test job stable?* We should do that first. == original schedule == 6 January 2014: Deadline for all major work being done for 2.6.0alpha;Version number changed to 2.6.0beta; Beta period announced to TEI-L community 6 - 13 January: Repository Chill -- no new implementations, updates to prose and uncontroversial bug fixes are still allowed. Council Proofreading all new material. Trivial corrections from TEI Community allowed. 13 - 18 January: Repository Freeze -- Council proofreads & test all outputs; no changes allowed except with permission of technical council and release technician. 20 January: Possible release date. > > Best Peter > > Am 06.01.2014 um 18:44 schrieb James Cummings > : > >> On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman >>> : >>>>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the >>>>> availability of the release technician. Did we have a >>>>> volunteer? PeterS?) >>>> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release >>>> technician as I was jipped out of a lot of it last time >>>> due to a power failure. But I'm more than happy to wait >>>> until some other release. >>> Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! Please, go ahead >>> and I will wait for another chance. >> >> If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely >> fresh eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are >> still willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of >> assistants will probable be present especially given the >> change of server. >> >> I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the >> holidays (and behind in most of my actions). >> >> -james >> >> >> >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From dsewell at virginia.edu Tue Jan 7 09:18:24 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 09:18:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Has it been established that procedures are in place for getting the release to work on the new server? On Tue, 7 Jan 2014, James Cummings wrote: > On 07/01/14 12:50, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Yes, sure, I?m still willing but I would in no way be >> disappointed if anyone else did the job. I?d really like to >> leave the decision to those who are more experienced with >> council work. If you prefer fresh eyes (and are willing to >> support during the process) I can give it a try, if you think >> it?s better to have someone more familiar with all the tool >> boxes it?s ok for me as well! > > Hi Peter (and Council), > > Don't worry, I don't think you are stepping on Syd's toe's too > much, he can do it next time, and I think there are real benefits > to having you do it. (Fresh eyes certainly, but also expanding > the circle of people who have done it and so have experience in > doing so.) > > Can you be free on Monday 20 January? (The originally suggested > date) We will need to change some of the steps in > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml since > the way you log into the server has changed. But please do sit > down and read it. Take note of the steps and ask about any you > don't understand. > > According to our schedule we are currently in the 'repository > chill'. This means we should not be doing any new > implementations, but updates to prose, etc. are allowed. This > also means that I will be announcing the pending release to TEI-L > soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of revision > 12749. > > *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the > P5-test job stable?* We should do that first. > > > == original schedule == > > 6 January 2014: Deadline for all major work being done for > 2.6.0alpha;Version number changed to 2.6.0beta; Beta period > announced to TEI-L community > > 6 - 13 January: Repository Chill -- no new implementations, > updates to prose and uncontroversial bug fixes are still allowed. > Council Proofreading all new material. Trivial corrections from > TEI Community allowed. > > 13 - 18 January: Repository Freeze -- Council proofreads & test > all outputs; no changes allowed except with permission of > technical council and release technician. > > 20 January: Possible release date. > > >> >> Best Peter >> >> Am 06.01.2014 um 18:44 schrieb James Cummings >> : >> >>> On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman >>>> : >>>>>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the >>>>>> availability of the release technician. Did we have a >>>>>> volunteer? PeterS?) >>>>> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release >>>>> technician as I was jipped out of a lot of it last time >>>>> due to a power failure. But I'm more than happy to wait >>>>> until some other release. >>>> Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! Please, go ahead >>>> and I will wait for another chance. >>> >>> If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely >>> fresh eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are >>> still willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of >>> assistants will probable be present especially given the >>> change of server. >>> >>> I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the >>> holidays (and behind in most of my actions). >>> >>> -james >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >>> > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> >> > > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 09:57:12 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:57:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CC15C8.7070008@it.ox.ac.uk> On 07/01/14 14:18, David Sewell wrote: > Has it been established that procedures are in place for getting > the release to work on the new server? Not yet. I've emailed Ian my public key and as soon as I have access I'll test some things by hand. There will be, I'm sure, as yet unforeseen some stumbling blocks. -James > > On Tue, 7 Jan 2014, James Cummings wrote: > >> On 07/01/14 12:50, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> Yes, sure, I?m still willing but I would in no way be >>> disappointed if anyone else did the job. I?d really like to >>> leave the decision to those who are more experienced with >>> council work. If you prefer fresh eyes (and are willing to >>> support during the process) I can give it a try, if you think >>> it?s better to have someone more familiar with all the tool >>> boxes it?s ok for me as well! >> >> Hi Peter (and Council), >> >> Don't worry, I don't think you are stepping on Syd's toe's too >> much, he can do it next time, and I think there are real benefits >> to having you do it. (Fresh eyes certainly, but also expanding >> the circle of people who have done it and so have experience in >> doing so.) >> >> Can you be free on Monday 20 January? (The originally suggested >> date) We will need to change some of the steps in >> http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml since >> the way you log into the server has changed. But please do sit >> down and read it. Take note of the steps and ask about any you >> don't understand. >> >> According to our schedule we are currently in the 'repository >> chill'. This means we should not be doing any new >> implementations, but updates to prose, etc. are allowed. This >> also means that I will be announcing the pending release to TEI-L >> soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of revision >> 12749. >> >> *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the >> P5-test job stable?* We should do that first. >> >> >> == original schedule == >> >> 6 January 2014: Deadline for all major work being done for >> 2.6.0alpha;Version number changed to 2.6.0beta; Beta period >> announced to TEI-L community >> >> 6 - 13 January: Repository Chill -- no new implementations, >> updates to prose and uncontroversial bug fixes are still allowed. >> Council Proofreading all new material. Trivial corrections from >> TEI Community allowed. >> >> 13 - 18 January: Repository Freeze -- Council proofreads & test >> all outputs; no changes allowed except with permission of >> technical council and release technician. >> >> 20 January: Possible release date. >> >> >>> >>> Best Peter >>> >>> Am 06.01.2014 um 18:44 schrieb James Cummings >>> : >>> >>>> On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>>> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman >>>>> : >>>>>>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the >>>>>>> availability of the release technician. Did we have a >>>>>>> volunteer? PeterS?) >>>>>> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release >>>>>> technician as I was jipped out of a lot of it last time >>>>>> due to a power failure. But I'm more than happy to wait >>>>>> until some other release. >>>>> Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! Please, go ahead >>>>> and I will wait for another chance. >>>> >>>> If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely >>>> fresh eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are >>>> still willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of >>>> assistants will probable be present especially given the >>>> change of server. >>>> >>>> I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the >>>> holidays (and behind in most of my actions). >>>> >>>> -james >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> >>>> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Jan 7 12:45:55 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 12:45:55 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > Don't worry, I don't think you are stepping on Syd's toe's too > much, he can do it next time, and I think there are real benefits > to having you do it. Ow! My toe! Seriously, no problem here at all. I think expanding the set of people who have a clue about building is good. I'll do it again some other time. I will also try to be available much of the day (EST) on Mon 20 to help as needed. > According to our schedule we are currently in the 'repository > chill'. This means we should not be doing any new implementations, > but updates to prose, etc. are allowed. Warning: I'm still in the middle of the Schematron stuff, which turns out to have some difficult twists. > This also means that I will be announcing the pending release to > TEI-L soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of > revision 12749. When you post various announcements to TEI-L about 2.6.0, some significant discussion of the change to is order, I think. I bet there are a lot of people out there who have taken advantage of the 11.5 years of excessively loose formal constraints to generate files that do not conform to the TEI abstract model on this. So now that the schema are enforcing a lot more of the constraints of the abstract model, many files will be invalid. If you want (James), I'll write up a draft for you tomorrow. > *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the P5-test > job stable?* We should do that first. Can it be made stable? Now that we have Schematron warnings for @validUntil constructs that are still exemplified, I thought we were stuck with unstable. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 13:00:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 10:00:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> On 14-01-07 09:45 AM, Syd Bauman wrote: >> This also means that I will be announcing the pending release to >> TEI-L soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of >> revision 12749. Once we're in beta, we should be asking on TEI-L for public proofing of the Jenkins versions, and also the readme should be done, IIRC, so people know what changes they should be proofing. >> *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the P5-test >> job stable?* We should do that first. > > Can it be made stable? Now that we have Schematron warnings for > @validUntil constructs that are still exemplified, I thought we were > stuck with unstable. For this build, we are, unfortunately, but I really don't like this as a long-term thing. I think it's a priority to get our act together wrt deprecation and warnings before the 2.7 release. One option, which is time-consuming but which could work, is for Sebastian and/or I to add explicit suppression of the known schematron warnings for deprecated constructs to the Jenkins log parser. We could do this as new deprecations are added, then after every release we would go through the log parser and remove any suppressions which are obsolete (because they have transitioned from warnings to errors because the expiry date has gone by, or because the constructs have now been removed and the warnings/errors are no longer being generated). It seems a bit heavy-handed but it would work. I definitely don't like the situation where we "live with" unstable builds; that will cause us to stop investigating warnings and miss new ones that might appear. Cheers, Martin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 13:19:50 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:19:50 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> I think holding off on announcing to TEI-L until we write the release notes makes sense, I hadn't thought of that. I've added a blank readme-2.6.0.xml so please do add changes you think are important (or we should draw people's attention to) to that. So, is it consensus that we stay in an 'unstable' state with regard to the schematron warnings? -James On 07/01/14 18:00, Martin Holmes wrote: > On 14-01-07 09:45 AM, Syd Bauman wrote: > >>> This also means that I will be announcing the pending release to >>> TEI-L soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of >>> revision 12749. > > Once we're in beta, we should be asking on TEI-L for public proofing of > the Jenkins versions, and also the readme should be done, IIRC, so > people know what changes they should be proofing. > >>> *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the P5-test >>> job stable?* We should do that first. >> >> Can it be made stable? Now that we have Schematron warnings for >> @validUntil constructs that are still exemplified, I thought we were >> stuck with unstable. > > For this build, we are, unfortunately, but I really don't like this as a > long-term thing. I think it's a priority to get our act together wrt > deprecation and warnings before the 2.7 release. > > One option, which is time-consuming but which could work, is for > Sebastian and/or I to add explicit suppression of the known schematron > warnings for deprecated constructs to the Jenkins log parser. We could > do this as new deprecations are added, then after every release we would > go through the log parser and remove any suppressions which are obsolete > (because they have transitioned from warnings to errors because the > expiry date has gone by, or because the constructs have now been removed > and the warnings/errors are no longer being generated). It seems a bit > heavy-handed but it would work. I definitely don't like the situation > where we "live with" unstable builds; that will cause us to stop > investigating warnings and miss new ones that might appear. > > Cheers, > Martin > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 13:56:31 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 10:56:31 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CC4DDF.3000406@uvic.ca> On 14-01-07 10:19 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > I think holding off on announcing to TEI-L until we write the > release notes makes sense, I hadn't thought of that. I've added a > blank readme-2.6.0.xml so please do add changes you think are > important (or we should draw people's attention to) to that. > > So, is it consensus that we stay in an 'unstable' state with > regard to the schematron warnings? With the caveat that some of us must keep checking through those warnings as we get closer to release, to make sure there aren't any new ones that actually require action. Cheers, Martin > > -James > > > > On 07/01/14 18:00, Martin Holmes wrote: >> On 14-01-07 09:45 AM, Syd Bauman wrote: >> >>>> This also means that I will be announcing the pending release to >>>> TEI-L soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of >>>> revision 12749. >> >> Once we're in beta, we should be asking on TEI-L for public proofing of >> the Jenkins versions, and also the readme should be done, IIRC, so >> people know what changes they should be proofing. >> >>>> *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the P5-test >>>> job stable?* We should do that first. >>> >>> Can it be made stable? Now that we have Schematron warnings for >>> @validUntil constructs that are still exemplified, I thought we were >>> stuck with unstable. >> >> For this build, we are, unfortunately, but I really don't like this as a >> long-term thing. I think it's a priority to get our act together wrt >> deprecation and warnings before the 2.7 release. >> >> One option, which is time-consuming but which could work, is for >> Sebastian and/or I to add explicit suppression of the known schematron >> warnings for deprecated constructs to the Jenkins log parser. We could >> do this as new deprecations are added, then after every release we would >> go through the log parser and remove any suppressions which are obsolete >> (because they have transitioned from warnings to errors because the >> expiry date has gone by, or because the constructs have now been removed >> and the warnings/errors are no longer being generated). It seems a bit >> heavy-handed but it would work. I definitely don't like the situation >> where we "live with" unstable builds; that will cause us to stop >> investigating warnings and miss new ones that might appear. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 14:32:54 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 19:32:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Jan 2014, at 18:19, James Cummings wrote: > So, is it consensus that we stay in an 'unstable' state with > regard to the schematron warnings? reluctantly, yes, I think it is the least worst thing right now. all the other solutions involve tinkering with scripts or making the examples not real XML, and they have more chance of going wrong. don?t forget, Martin, that add extra Warnings that appear will duly cause the build to fail, as the ValidatorLog.xml file will change. So we are protected from one class of problem - though not from other types of warning. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 15:04:09 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 12:04:09 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> On 14-01-07 11:32 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 7 Jan 2014, at 18:19, James Cummings wrote: > >> So, is it consensus that we stay in an 'unstable' state with >> regard to the schematron warnings? > > reluctantly, yes, I think it is the least worst thing right now. all the other solutions involve > tinkering with scripts or making the examples not real XML, and they have more > chance of going wrong. > > don?t forget, Martin, that add extra Warnings that appear will duly cause > the build to fail, as the ValidatorLog.xml file will change. So we are > protected from one class of problem - though not from other types of warning. True indeed. But the more I think about it, the more I rather like the idea that the Jenkins log parser file might be a locus for managing our deprecation warnings. It's in SVN so anyone could edit it, and could add a preliminary step to all the P5 builds that just exported the latest version into /var/lib/jenkins before building. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 15:22:12 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 20:22:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Jan 2014, at 20:04, Martin Holmes wrote: > > True indeed. But the more I think about it, the more I rather like the > idea that the Jenkins log parser file might be a locus for managing our > deprecation warnings. It's in SVN so anyone could edit it, and could add > a preliminary step to all the P5 builds that just exported the latest > version into /var/lib/jenkins before building. it?s not that simple, as the config needs to be installed on the Jenkins server, which is a rather specialised job i would go back to the simplest method, which is remove examples from deprecated elements?.. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 15:36:41 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 12:36:41 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> On 14-01-07 12:22 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 7 Jan 2014, at 20:04, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> >> True indeed. But the more I think about it, the more I rather like the >> idea that the Jenkins log parser file might be a locus for managing our >> deprecation warnings. It's in SVN so anyone could edit it, and could add >> a preliminary step to all the P5 builds that just exported the latest >> version into /var/lib/jenkins before building. > > it?s not that simple, as the config needs to be installed on the Jenkins server, > which is a rather specialised job I must be misunderstanding something, then. The unstable build arises out of WARNINGs which show up in the console output during a build. There are large numbers of errors and warnings during that process, but we "suppress" most of them using the hudson-log-parse-rules file here: If someone were to add regexes to that file for each of the warnings arising out of deprecation, which look like this: Schematron warning: WARNING: use of deprecated element ? The TEI-C may drop support for the relationGrp element as early as 2014-06-17. [Test: true()] Location: /TEI[1]/text[1]/body[1]/div[13]/div[3]/div[4]/div[4]/specGrp[1]/elementSpec[22]/exemplum[1]/egXML[namespace-uri()='http://www.tei-c.org/ns/Examples'][1]/relationGrp[namespace-uri()='http://www.tei-c.org/ns/Examples'][1] or like this: [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. We could add a global trap for "use of deprecated element", and then the Jinks build would no longer be unstable. We could also add specific regexes for each deprecated construct error. Anyone could add or remove these regexes from the file at any time. Then, if we made the first step in each P5 build to check out this export this file from SVN to /var/lib/jenkins (which would be fine, because the build runs as the jenkins user and the file is owned by that user), then the build would not be unstable. If we then periodically looked at those regexes and deleted any obsolete ones, everything would work fine, wouldn't it? Cheers, Martin > > i would go back to the simplest method, which is remove examples > from deprecated elements?.. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Jan 7 15:53:12 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 15:53:12 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <21196.26936.384612.286667@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Martins replied on 2014-01-04T08:34:08-0800 -- MH> I would go for b) here. Simpler by far than anything else, and this is MH> surely a very isolated issue of meta-meta-documentation. SR> if you can find a way to make egXML work inside egXML, I am SR> interested. SR> I=92d start by seeing if it actually works with the current SR> processing chain first, then worry about validity. One or SR> other of the two may be easy to fix. Fixing the validity ought to be pretty easy, no? Just change the 2nd line of | macro.anyXML = | element * - (ns2:* | egXML) { | attribute * { text }*, | (text | macro.anyXML)* | } to read | element * - ns2:* { But fixing the processing chain is something I know nothing about. What is the problem in processing, Sebastian? I.e., what makes it hard to handle inside ? If it turns out fixing the processing is as hard as Sebastian implies, I think my order of preference is (d), (b), (c), (a). > Indeed, that is an interesting problem and recurring problem. I think > the only solutions are to either > > a) remove the restriction on nesting (I can't quite remember > why we have it, at the moment) > > b) leave it as it is -- it doesn't get validated, such is life > > c) change it to an -- it doesn't get validated, such is life > > d) change the namespace of the internal element to something > else, e.g., "http://www.tei-c.org/USE-PROPER-NAMESPACE-HERE", with > an explanatory sentence in the prose. From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Jan 7 16:25:09 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 16:25:09 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BAE4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BAE4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21196.28853.638173.226755@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> So I still don't think I'm understanding. At first I thought Lou was suggesting a single flat namespace. That, I think would be awful, since we would not be able to have two constructs with the same ident. (And since @ident is used for the construct's name ...) However, I doubt that's what Lou had in mind. So now I think maybe Sebastian and Lou were suggesting that we have a single namespace over all identifiable objects. So we would differentiate constructs with the same name by using different @ident values. E.g., we might use the following to differentiate those mentioned in previous examples: ident="module.certainty" ident="element.certainty" ident="element.org" ident="attribute.org" ident="attribute.scheme" ident="element.scheme" ident="attribute.unit" ident="element.unit" That seems much more reasonable, but then Sebastian replied: > > I'm wondering if we wouldn't do better to have a single name > > space for each *type* of identifiable object. > > that?s a given, I think, and where we are now. So I'm confused. If we have a single name space for the @ident values for each *type* of object, why are we prepending the @ident of classes and macros with "att.", "model.", "data." and "macro."? In my mind, having a separate single namespace for each *type* of object means you can have an element named "duck", an attribute class named "duck", and a macro named "duck", and you differentiate which you want by explicitly saying so: key="duck" type="macro" or whatever. So, how in the heck does a processor currently know whether to fetch the "certainty" module or the "certainty" element when it encounters ? Right now it should know because a only refers to an element or a class (or a macro, which its description doesn't mention). So I don't think I understand the problem, and how changing idents fixes it. One take on this is that the original post here is just a bug report that the stylesheet processing the is using *[@ident='$key'] rather than (elementSpec|classSpec|macroSpec)[@ident='certainty'] From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 16:30:17 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:30:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> > > [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. > Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > Then, if we made the first step in each P5 build to check out this export this file from SVN to /var/lib/jenkins (which would be fine, because the build runs as the jenkins user and the file is owned by that user), then the build would not be unstable. >> Ah, if you can automate the install of the file, that would be ok. I bet it needs a restart after installing, though Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 17:08:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:08:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TD exemplifications In-Reply-To: <21196.26936.384612.286667@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C81C21.5060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> <21192.8021.247268.841252@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <21196.26936.384612.286667@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A843225@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Jan 2014, at 20:53, Syd Bauman wrote: > > Fixing the validity ought to be pretty easy, no? Just change the 2nd > line of > | macro.anyXML = > | element * - (ns2:* | egXML) { > | attribute * { text }*, > | (text | macro.anyXML)* > | } > to read > | element * - ns2:* { > yes, it _may_ well be that easy. my experience of macro.anyXML is that any change practical causes global warming. YMMV :-} > But fixing the processing chain is something I know nothing about. > What is the problem in processing, Sebastian? I.e., what makes it > hard to handle inside ? I don?t know without looking, I am afraid. May be easy. May cause global warming. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 7 17:13:16 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 22:13:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <21196.28853.638173.226755@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BAE4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21196.28853.638173.226755@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A843289@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Jan 2014, at 21:25, Syd Bauman wrote: > So I still don't think I'm understanding. At first I thought Lou was > suggesting a single flat namespace. That, I think would be awful, > since we would not be able to have two constructs with the same > ident. actually sounds a good principle to me? (with the exception of attributes, of course) > So now I think maybe Sebastian and Lou were suggesting that we have a > single namespace over all identifiable objects. So we would > differentiate constructs with the same name by using different @ident > values. well, no,. I?d rename things until they didn?t have the same name :-} do you have a good example of where you really want to use the same name twice? (apart from attributes) >>> I'm wondering if we wouldn't do better to have a single name >>> space for each *type* of identifiable object. >> >> that?s a given, I think, and where we are now. > > So I'm confused. I think I was lying :-{ do don?t be confused > ... > > So I don't think I understand the problem, and how changing idents > fixes it. One take on this is that the original post here is just a > bug report that the stylesheet processing the is using > *[@ident='$key'] > rather than > (elementSpec|classSpec|macroSpec)[@ident='certainty?] yes, indeed, just that. I merely observed (and everyone can disagree) that I find having modules and elements with the same name is confusing -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 19:35:24 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 16:35:24 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CC9D4C.4020700@uvic.ca> On 14-01-07 01:30 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >> >> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. >> > Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > >> Then, if we made the first step in each P5 build to check out this export this file from SVN to /var/lib/jenkins (which would be fine, because the build runs as the jenkins user and the file is owned by that user), then the build would not be unstable. >>> > > Ah, if you can automate the install of the file, that would be ok. I bet it needs a restart after installing, though Ah yes -- this would need testing. We could also have a special log-parser just for P5-Test. I wonder if we might even be able to point at an external parser file... Cheers, Martin > > Sebastian > -- Martin Holmes University of Victoria Humanities Computing and Media Centre (mholmes at uvic.ca) From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Jan 7 23:03:41 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 23:03:41 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > > [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop > > support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as 2014-06-17 b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after 2014-06-17 c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after that date. d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Jan 7 23:05:19 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 23:05:19 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] keeping @ident unique In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A843289@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21894119.28.1388875317919.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <23587673.29.1388879207114.JavaMail.jenkins@bits> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AB6B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C94764.4010301@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83AD04@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52C9541D.4080709@retired.ox.ac.uk> <4c5bd61a-6385-4697-8802-9db0b4e1b9ac@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21193.38899.108041.420884@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BAE4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21196.28853.638173.226755@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A843289@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21196.52863.580940.686825@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> OK, think I got it. I may have been making a mountain out of a molehill. > I merely observed (and everyone can disagree) that I find having > modules and elements with the same name is confusing Doesn't bother me much at all. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 7 23:59:44 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 20:59:44 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CCDB40.2010006@uvic.ca> In order of preference: d, c, b, a Cheers, Martin On 14-01-07 08:03 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. > > SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > > OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate > suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" > message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or > (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. > > a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as > 2014-06-17 > > b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after > 2014-06-17 > > c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on > 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after > that date. > > d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 > > > Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If > it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in > DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 8 02:37:20 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 07:37:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <52CCDB40.2010006@uvic.ca> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu>, <52CCDB40.2010006@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <8391CE98-F575-4AFF-A545-B79B052189FF@it.ox.ac.uk> D c b a Sebastian From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 8 04:49:55 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 09:49:55 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> d, c, b, a as well. -James On 08/01/14 04:03, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. > > SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > > OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate > suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" > message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or > (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. > > a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as > 2014-06-17 > > b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after > 2014-06-17 > > c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on > 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after > that date. > > d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 > > > Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If > it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in > DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Wed Jan 8 07:25:18 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:25:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: D, B, C (it's too verbose IMHO), A Fabio 2014/1/8 James Cummings : > d, c, b, a as well. > > -James > > On 08/01/14 04:03, Syd Bauman wrote: >>>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. >> >> SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. >> >> OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate >> suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" >> message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or >> (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. >> >> a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as >> 2014-06-17 >> >> b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after >> 2014-06-17 >> >> c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on >> 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after >> that date. >> >> d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 >> >> >> Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If >> it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in >> DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Jan 8 08:08:17 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 08:08:17 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: I like the simplicity of D (even though it?s not technically true; C is more accurate but I agree with Fabio, too wordy). Being definitive will help concentrate people?s attention, so: D, B, C, A Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Jan 7, 2014, at 23:03 , Syd Bauman wrote: >>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. > > SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > > OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate > suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" > message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or > (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. > > a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as > 2014-06-17 > > b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after > 2014-06-17 > > c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on > 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after > that date. > > d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 > > > Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If > it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in > DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 8 08:28:54 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 13:28:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CD5296.2050907@it.ox.ac.uk> I'd agree that the simplicity is good. As long as the Council understands that what we really mean is "removed from the TEI source code before the release which follows this date". Then I think having the definitive statement is better than being perfectly transparent. On 08/01/14 13:08, Hugh Cayless wrote: > I like the simplicity of D (even though it?s not technically true; C is more accurate but I agree with Fabio, too wordy). Being definitive will help concentrate people?s attention, so: > > D, B, C, A > > Hugh > > /** > * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D > * hugh.cayless at duke.edu > * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) > * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ > **/ > > > On Jan 7, 2014, at 23:03 , Syd Bauman wrote: > >>>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. >> >> SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. >> >> OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate >> suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" >> message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or >> (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. >> >> a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as >> 2014-06-17 >> >> b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after >> 2014-06-17 >> >> c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on >> 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after >> that date. >> >> d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 >> >> >> Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If >> it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in >> DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Wed Jan 8 08:33:59 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 14:33:59 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CD52F8.6060907@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CD52F8.6060907@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <807D6868-0DB4-431C-90CF-03EFF36F015B@edirom.de> Yes, Jan 20th is ok with me. Best Peter Am 08.01.2014 um 14:30 schrieb James Cummings : > Peter, > > Btw... are you free on the 20th? Just want to get the date nailed down if possible. ;-) > > -James > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) > Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 13:16:25 +0000 > From: James Cummings > Reply-To: > Organisation: IT Services, University of Oxford > To: > > On 07/01/14 12:50, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Yes, sure, I?m still willing but I would in no way be >> disappointed if anyone else did the job. I?d really like to >> leave the decision to those who are more experienced with >> council work. If you prefer fresh eyes (and are willing to >> support during the process) I can give it a try, if you think >> it?s better to have someone more familiar with all the tool >> boxes it?s ok for me as well! > > Hi Peter (and Council), > > Don't worry, I don't think you are stepping on Syd's toe's too > much, he can do it next time, and I think there are real benefits > to having you do it. (Fresh eyes certainly, but also expanding > the circle of people who have done it and so have experience in > doing so.) > > Can you be free on Monday 20 January? (The originally suggested > date) We will need to change some of the steps in > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml since > the way you log into the server has changed. But please do sit > down and read it. Take note of the steps and ask about any you > don't understand. > > According to our schedule we are currently in the 'repository > chill'. This means we should not be doing any new > implementations, but updates to prose, etc. are allowed. This > also means that I will be announcing the pending release to TEI-L > soon. I've changed the version number to 2.6.0beta as of revision > 12749. > > *Before I announce this what needs to be done to make the > P5-test job stable?* We should do that first. > > > == original schedule == > > 6 January 2014: Deadline for all major work being done for > 2.6.0alpha;Version number changed to 2.6.0beta; Beta period > announced to TEI-L community > > 6 - 13 January: Repository Chill -- no new implementations, > updates to prose and uncontroversial bug fixes are still allowed. > Council Proofreading all new material. Trivial corrections from > TEI Community allowed. > > 13 - 18 January: Repository Freeze -- Council proofreads & test > all outputs; no changes allowed except with permission of > technical council and release technician. > > 20 January: Possible release date. > > >> >> Best Peter >> >> Am 06.01.2014 um 18:44 schrieb James Cummings >> : >> >>> On 06/01/14 13:35, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>> Am 30.12.2013 um 17:13 schrieb Syd Bauman >>>> : >>>>>> 20 January: Possible release date. (Depends on the >>>>>> availability of the release technician. Did we have a >>>>>> volunteer? PeterS?) >>>>> FWIW, I've also volunteered to be this release >>>>> technician as I was jipped out of a lot of it last time >>>>> due to a power failure. But I'm more than happy to wait >>>>> until some other release. >>>> Well, I?d never dare to compete with Syd! Please, go ahead >>>> and I will wait for another chance. >>> >>> If Syd doesn't mind, it would be a good way to get entirely >>> fresh eyes the release process if Peter did it (if you are >>> still willing?). However, I suspect the usual cohort of >>> assistants will probable be present especially given the >>> change of server. >>> >>> I'm only catching up on the large number of emails over the >>> holidays (and behind in most of my actions). >>> >>> -james >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >>> > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140108/c19a1bac/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 8 11:29:17 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 16:29:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Though we are in chill state generally, I will have to make another Stylesheet release, due to an unacceptable bug found by Louis-Dominique (https://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets/issues/8). Obviously, I will monitor the effect (none, I hope) of this on P5 as it runs now. Syd, are you ready to check in your Schematron extraction thing? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Jan 8 18:14:59 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2014 18:14:59 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > Syd, are you ready to check in your Schematron extraction thing? No, not at all. I spent far more time than expected wrangling with DH 2014 review responses. And we only have 6 votes in for the wording (although 5 of them put "D" at #1). From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 00:24:37 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:24:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Re : VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu>, <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I share the consensus in favoyr If d. Which.cpuld be improved by removing " from the tei" since i dont know what it means Envoy?? depuis mon HTC ----- Reply message ----- De : "James Cummings" Pour : "tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU" Objet : [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") Date : mer., janv. 8, 2014 13:50 d, c, b, a as well. -James On 08/01/14 04:03, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ?D The TEI-C may drop >>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. > > SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. > > OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate > suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" > message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or > (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. > > a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as > 2014-06-17 > > b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after > 2014-06-17 > > c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on > 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after > that date. > > d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 > > > Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If > it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in > DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Thu Jan 9 02:15:11 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:15:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] January 2014 teleconference In-Reply-To: <52C2D236.3090804@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <604917967.2186624.1389251711893.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Hi James, Thanks again for all your effort. Do we already have a proposal for the working group, we recently discussed, sent by Torsten ? Regards Stefanie -- Stefanie Gehrke ------------------------ Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima Campus Condorcet 3 rue de la Croix Faron 93206 Saint-Denis Cedex T?l. : +33 (0)1 55 93 75 00 www.biblissima-condorcet.fr @biblissima ----- Mail original ----- De: "James Cummings" ?: "TEI Council" Envoy?: Mardi 31 D?cembre 2013 15:18:30 Objet: [tei-council] January 2014 teleconference Dear TEI Council, The results of the doodle poll at http://doodle.com/658rfbiswtzmdeza seem to indicate that Friday 10 January at 14:00 London time is the best time for the teleconference, or the least inconvenient for the most number of people. I'll forward information about the teleconference (to be held in the usual manner) next week. We have a number of items on which we are to report at the teleconference (remembering the actions from the Oxford 2013-11 meeting). Please do feel free to report on these to the mailing list in advance. We should be using teleconferences to confirm decisions that we've already made on the mailing list rather than having new in-depth discussions. Bearing that in mind, please add any items to http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-01 by early next week. Best, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 04:21:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:21:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Re : VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu>, <52CD1F43.7040108@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 9 Jan 2014, at 05:24, Lou Burnard wrote: > I share the consensus in favoyr If d. Which.cpuld be improved by removing " from the tei" since i dont know what it means > Envoy? depuis mon HTC yes, the shorter and simpler the better Serbastian From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 04:31:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:31:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8487D2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 8 Jan 2014, at 23:14, Syd Bauman wrote: >> Syd, are you ready to check in your Schematron extraction thing? > > No, not at all. I spent far more time than expected wrangling with DH > 2014 review responses. ohoho. my panel sent in its response yesterday? > And we only have 6 votes in for the wording > (although 5 of them put "D" at #1). sounds like a consensus to me :-} i think you need to decide quite quickly whether you want to complete this work before the 2.6.0 release, as we?ll enter freeze pretty shortly. shall we revert back to the October 2013 version, if the work committed on 12th December may be incomplete? Sebastian From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 04:37:06 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 09:37:06 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CE6DC2.8080406@it.ox.ac.uk> Anyone who hasn't voted, please do. -James On 08/01/14 23:14, Syd Bauman wrote: >> Syd, are you ready to check in your Schematron extraction thing? > > No, not at all. I spent far more time than expected wrangling with DH > 2014 review responses. And we only have 6 votes in for the wording > (although 5 of them put "D" at #1). > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 06:14:32 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:14:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> Should we be editing the release documentation (tcw22) to reflect this in advance? http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml Or only do so after the release with all the other changes? (I suspect the former...) -james On 05/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I just went through the process of making a Stylesheets release, in order to fix a high profile bug > reported on Saturday (if you used the @prefix on schemaSpec and made a DTD, it was a mess). > > i mention this ?cos: > > a) it demonstrates that the install script seems to run fine so far on the new TEI web server[1] > b) I really don?t want to change stylesheets again before the P5 release in a week or two unless its really essential > > so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which > will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? > > [1] however, the setup is not what we document. I just made a copy of the > script and ran it in /tmp, but that?s not very sustainable. So I have checked out > P5 in ~tei/private/P5, which means that what the release technician will do is: > > * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org > * cd private/P5 > * svn up > * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=2.6.0 # vel sim > > the install of TEIP5 is untested as yet, of course, as is the step of rebuilding the > eXist database for Roma. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 9 06:37:18 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 12:37:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] VOTE ON DEPRECATION WORDING (was "Re: Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0)") In-Reply-To: <52CD5296.2050907@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CC40B0.1010509@uvic.ca> <52CC4546.1080604@it.ox.ac.uk> <83146354-c9c5-45a9-810e-32f50111e7df@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC5DB9.4080209@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A842BF7@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CC6559.8030706@uvic.ca> <4F0E8E73-4681-467A-A7A8-52618245C541@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.52765.88411.443481@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CD5296.2050907@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4CE81A65-FD90-4DBB-9C32-E5E43C04C1F0@edirom.de> C - B - A (you forced me to vote) Well, first I like transparency and second I think D is just misleading. People will still find http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-relationGrp.html after 2014-06-17 as long as there is no new release. So, on 2014-06-18 we have a webpage saying "I was removed yesterday?, or am I missing something? Additionally, I?d add ?subsequent? (or the like) to "available in any *subsequent* P5 releases after that date? to make it even more explicit. Best Peter Am 08.01.2014 um 14:28 schrieb James Cummings : > > I'd agree that the simplicity is good. As long as the Council > understands that what we really mean is "removed from the TEI > source code before the release which follows this date". Then I > think having the definitive statement is better than being > perfectly transparent. > > On 08/01/14 13:08, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> I like the simplicity of D (even though it?s not technically true; C is more accurate but I agree with Fabio, too wordy). Being definitive will help concentrate people?s attention, so: >> >> D, B, C, A >> >> Hugh >> >> /** >> * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D >> * hugh.cayless at duke.edu >> * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) >> * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ >> **/ >> >> >> On Jan 7, 2014, at 23:03 , Syd Bauman wrote: >> >>>>> [xslt] WARNING: use of deprecated attribute ? The TEI-C may drop >>>>> support for @type of the biblScope element as early as 2014-12-17. >>> >>> SR> Which reminds me that I (still) don't like the vague wording of this. >>> >>> OK folks, time to stand up and be counted. We've had 4 alternate >>> suggestions for the wording of the "you used a deprecated doohicky" >>> message. Please vote for one, or put them in your preference order, or >>> (ack!) suggest another wording ASAP. >>> >>> a. The TEI-C may drop support for relationGrp element as early as >>> 2014-06-17 >>> >>> b. The TEI-C will drop support for the relationGrp element after >>> 2014-06-17 >>> >>> c. The relationGrp element will be removed from TEI source code on >>> 2014-06-17, and will not be available in any P5 releases after >>> that date. >>> >>> d. The relationGrp element will be removed from the TEI on 2014-06-17 >>> >>> >>> Note: the value of validUntil= does not have to be a complete date. If >>> it is precise only to the month, we'd replace "on DATE" with "in >>> DATE". Perhaps even convert 2014-06 to "June 2014". >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140109/4fd35ee8/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 06:38:09 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 11:38:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Teleconference 2014-01-10 Message-ID: <52CE8A21.4020708@it.ox.ac.uk> Dear TEI Technical Council, As you will remember we have a teleconference scheduled for 2pm(GMT)[1] tomorrow 10 January 2014. *Can I have a volunteer to take minutes?* The currently very skimpy agenda is at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-01 *Please add things to the minutes!* Please also update the wiki page at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Oxford2013-Actions2 with the current state of your actions. The connection information is below. We'll be using the same conferencing system as last time run by economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical location as another council member, do consider sharing a conference/speaker phone.) US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 Canada: Use US number. UK: 0800-016-3440 Germany: 0800-182-0270 France: 0800-916-758 Italy: 800-789-804 (If you need a different country number, please contact me asap.) You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. Tomorrow, dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access code: 4614041 followed by the # button. You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute your line using *6. Questions? Updates to the agenda? -James [1] Want to know when this is in your timezone? See timeanddate.com e.g. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20140110T14&p1=1233&p2=1091&p3=784&p4=878&p5=195&p6=215&p7=994 -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 06:40:17 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:40:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <614dd9bc-d816-4353-941b-08d7ec7a579d@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jan 2014, at 11:14, James Cummings wrote: > > Should we be editing the release documentation (tcw22) to reflect > this in advance? > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml Or only > do so after the release with all the other changes? (I suspect > the former...) sooner the better, I?d say, to update tcw22 to the desired new state Sebastian From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 08:28:15 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:28:15 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <52CE6DC2.8080406@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CE6DC2.8080406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21198.41967.170751.513123@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> SR -- yes, still hopeful; made some good progress last night. JC -- if we allow Lou's vote, here, we already havea majorit for "D". It's too bad we don't have a mechanism that allows me to check in what I have so far so y'all can look at it and criticize or whatever, without breaking the build process until it's done. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 08:33:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:33:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <21198.41967.170751.513123@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CE6DC2.8080406@it.ox.ac.uk> <21198.41967.170751.513123@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AC58@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jan 2014, at 13:28, Syd Bauman wrote: > It's too bad we don't have a mechanism that allows me to check in > what I have so far so y'all can look at it and criticize or whatever, > without breaking the build process until it's done. > if you check in a revised ValidatorLog.xml file at the same time as the revised extract-isosch.xsl, then things won?t break. changing that ValidatorLog file each time isn?t a worry. Sebastian From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 08:37:22 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:37:22 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > If you want (James), I'll write up a draft for you tomorrow. James -- who is writing this, you, me, or someone else? From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 08:42:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 05:42:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> We should definitely document this ahead of time in TCW22 so Peter is actually testing it when he does the release. Sebastian, can you confirm that these steps are what you need to do? >> * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org >> * cd private/P5 >> * svn up >> * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=x.x.0 Also, do we know whether Peter will be logging in as tei, or whether he'll need to get an account for himself set up by David? Peter, if you haven't done so already, I'd go through the early part of TCW22: to make sure you've got yourself set up and ready (including the SSH key for SourceForge). Cheers, Martin On 14-01-09 03:14 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Should we be editing the release documentation (tcw22) to reflect > this in advance? > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml Or only > do so after the release with all the other changes? (I suspect > the former...) > > -james > > On 05/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> I just went through the process of making a Stylesheets release, in order to fix a high profile bug >> reported on Saturday (if you used the @prefix on schemaSpec and made a DTD, it was a mess). >> >> i mention this ?cos: >> >> a) it demonstrates that the install script seems to run fine so far on the new TEI web server[1] >> b) I really don?t want to change stylesheets again before the P5 release in a week or two unless its really essential >> >> so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which >> will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? >> >> [1] however, the setup is not what we document. I just made a copy of the >> script and ran it in /tmp, but that?s not very sustainable. So I have checked out >> P5 in ~tei/private/P5, which means that what the release technician will do is: >> >> * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org >> * cd private/P5 >> * svn up >> * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=2.6.0 # vel sim >> >> the install of TEIP5 is untested as yet, of course, as is the step of rebuilding the >> eXist database for Roma. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 08:47:47 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:47:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jan 2014, at 13:42, Martin Holmes wrote: > We should definitely document this ahead of time in TCW22 so Peter is > actually testing it when he does the release. Sebastian, can you confirm > that these steps are what you need to do? > >>> * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org >>> * cd private/P5 >>> * svn up >>> * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=x.x.0 > I can?t confirm the exact last stage, but I have done it for Stylesheets. up to then, yes, confirmed Also, do we know whether Peter will be logging in as tei, or whether > he'll need to get an account for himself set up by David? he uses the tei username, but can only log in by sending his public key to Ian Rifkin. James, did that work for you? the server doesn?t allow password-based login, only authentication by public/private key matching. Sebastian From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 09:17:31 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:17:31 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 13:47, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > he uses the tei username, but can only log in by sending > his public key to Ian Rifkin. James, did that work for you? > > the server doesn?t allow password-based login, only > authentication by public/private key matching. Yes indeed. I was going to email Ian and Peter about this off-list rather than provide Ian's email address to the public archive. ;-) Peter: You'll need a public key and an SSH client. (does that mean we should point in pointers to how to make a public key into the release notes?) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 09:32:11 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:32:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 13:37, Syd Bauman wrote: >> If you want (James), I'll write up a draft for you tomorrow. > > James -- who is writing this, you, me, or someone else? You were meant to add it to the P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml file. It doesn't need to be detailed prose, just a short note. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 9 09:39:05 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:39:05 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8C76C731-34A6-4703-B58B-6ED131094F79@edirom.de> Yes, I?ll generate a brand new one ;-) Maybe (for transparency) we could just add a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssh-keygen to the release notes? And what about shell access to the TEI SourceForge project ? will I need it? Who can turn this on? Peter Am 09.01.2014 um 15:17 schrieb James Cummings : > > On 09/01/14 13:47, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> he uses the tei username, but can only log in by sending >> his public key to Ian Rifkin. James, did that work for you? >> >> the server doesn?t allow password-based login, only >> authentication by public/private key matching. > > > Yes indeed. I was going to email Ian and Peter about this > off-list rather than provide Ian's email address to the public > archive. ;-) > > Peter: You'll need a public key and an SSH client. > > (does that mean we should point in pointers to how to make a > public key into the release notes?) > > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140109/8bcc507e/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 09:43:52 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 14:43:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <8C76C731-34A6-4703-B58B-6ED131094F79@edirom.de> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> <8C76C731-34A6-4703-B58B-6ED131094F79@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CEB5A8.6010109@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 14:39, Peter Stadler wrote: > Yes, I?ll generate a brand new one ;-) Maybe (for > transparency) we could just add a link to > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssh-keygen to the release > notes? That sounds like a good idea. > And what about shell access to the TEI SourceForge project ? > will I need it? Who can turn this on? Not directly, but you need to be able to copy files there, so you need to have been made a release technician. Most members of council already are and any SourceForge Admin (Lou, Sebastian, Martin and me) can make any 'developer' a release technician by click a list at: https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/admin/files/releasers/ I've already done this in your case. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 9 09:53:49 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:53:49 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CEB5A8.6010109@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> <8C76C731-34A6-4703-B58B-6ED131094F79@edirom.de> <52CEB5A8.6010109@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <0D077702-CDF1-4288-B88A-9162A6D4C8A7@edirom.de> Am 09.01.2014 um 15:43 schrieb James Cummings : >> And what about shell access to the TEI SourceForge project ? >> will I need it? Who can turn this on? > > Not directly, but you need to be able to copy files there, so you > need to have been made a release technician. Most members of > council already are and any SourceForge Admin (Lou, Sebastian, > Martin and me) can make any 'developer' a release technician by > click a list at: > https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/admin/files/releasers/ > > I've already done this in your case. Not that I don?t trust you ? but is there any way to check my status? Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140109/a55ce447/attachment-0001.bin From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 9 10:08:30 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 16:08:30 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> Going through the release process ?What you will need before you start? [1] as Martin suggested and wondered about 7. First, there is something missing (or too much): "download a copy of the public key at ??? from tei-c.org:/home/tei/.ssh/id_dsa.pub? Second, am I right that I first need access to the server and then scp the file to my machine? Or is it accessible via (anonymous) http? It sounds a little bit like that ? ("download a copy?) BTW, who is to edit the file tcw22.xml? Peter Am 09.01.2014 um 14:42 schrieb Martin Holmes : > We should definitely document this ahead of time in TCW22 so Peter is > actually testing it when he does the release. Sebastian, can you confirm > that these steps are what you need to do? > >>> * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org >>> * cd private/P5 >>> * svn up >>> * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=x.x.0 > > Also, do we know whether Peter will be logging in as tei, or whether > he'll need to get an account for himself set up by David? > > Peter, if you haven't done so already, I'd go through the early part of > TCW22: > > > > to make sure you've got yourself set up and ready (including the SSH key > for SourceForge). > > Cheers, > Martin > > > On 14-01-09 03:14 AM, James Cummings wrote: >> >> Should we be editing the release documentation (tcw22) to reflect >> this in advance? >> http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml Or only >> do so after the release with all the other changes? (I suspect >> the former...) >> >> -james >> >> On 05/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> I just went through the process of making a Stylesheets release, in order to fix a high profile bug >>> reported on Saturday (if you used the @prefix on schemaSpec and made a DTD, it was a mess). >>> >>> i mention this ?cos: >>> >>> a) it demonstrates that the install script seems to run fine so far on the new TEI web server[1] >>> b) I really don?t want to change stylesheets again before the P5 release in a week or two unless its really essential >>> >>> so if there were or are things that people are working on for their open tickets which >>> will need changes to the ODD processing, can they flag them up ASAP? >>> >>> [1] however, the setup is not what we document. I just made a copy of the >>> script and ran it in /tmp, but that?s not very sustainable. So I have checked out >>> P5 in ~tei/private/P5, which means that what the release technician will do is: >>> >>> * ssh tei at www.tei-c.org >>> * cd private/P5 >>> * svn up >>> * Utilities/tei-install.sh ?package=TEIP5 ?version=2.6.0 # vel sim >>> >>> the install of TEIP5 is untested as yet, of course, as is the step of rebuilding the >>> eXist database for Roma. >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >> >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140109/945df008/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 10:45:24 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:45:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <0D077702-CDF1-4288-B88A-9162A6D4C8A7@edirom.de> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AE59@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CEAF7B.7050202@it.ox.ac.uk> <8C76C731-34A6-4703-B58B-6ED131094F79@edirom.de> <52CEB5A8.6010109@it.ox.ac.uk> <0D077702-CDF1-4288-B88A-9162A6D4C8A7@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CEC414.1040800@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 14:53, Peter Stadler wrote: >> https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/admin/files/releasers/ >> I've already done this in your case. > Not that I don?t trust you ? but is there any way to check my status? Hrmmm, not that I can find. :-( Let me know if you do find out where it will tell you that you are a developer and/or release technician. I can only see it in the places where I add people to and from these lists as an admin. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 10:56:03 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 15:56:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 15:08, Peter Stadler wrote: > Going through the release process ?What you will need before > you start? [1] as Martin suggested and wondered about 7. > First, there is something missing (or too much): "download a > copy of the public key at ??? from > tei-c.org:/home/tei/.ssh/id_dsa.pub? Well spotted. This public key was of course not in existence on the new server and so I have done an ssh-keygen and generated it. (Anyone who had a key stored in sourceforge for previous releases that key is now out of date.) So yes, there is now a new id_rsa.pub key on tei at tei-c.org in ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub. (I'm using ~ here rather than /home/tei because the tei's home directory is really /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/ which is more of a mouthful.) What you will need to do is take a copy of the id_rsa.pub file and cut and paste it into the box at https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh making sure to have it end up all on one line. > Second, am I right that I > first need access to the server and then scp the file to my > machine? Or is it accessible via (anonymous) http? It sounds a > little bit like that ? ("download a copy?) Downloading a copy to your local machine is optional you don't need to SSH directly into sourceforge, the script on tei-c.org does that for you. What you need to do is add the TEI's SSH public key to your sourceforge account so that it can rsync the new files to download section. No work for the release should really be happening on your local machine. That bit might need to be rephrased. > BTW, who is to edit the file tcw22.xml? I've asked MartinH to do so as he has been responsible for lots of the updates to it. (But if he says he is too busy then I will.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 11:07:20 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:07:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] January 2014 teleconference In-Reply-To: <604917967.2186624.1389251711893.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> References: <604917967.2186624.1389251711893.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Message-ID: <52CEC938.1030900@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi Stefanie, I had emailed Torsten about this but so far got no response. -James On 09/01/14 07:15, Stefanie Gehrke wrote: > Hi James, > > Thanks again for all your effort. > > Do we already have a proposal for the working group, we recently discussed, sent by Torsten ? > > Regards > Stefanie > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 9 11:07:38 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:07:38 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> Am 09.01.2014 um 16:56 schrieb James Cummings : > Downloading a copy to your local machine is optional you don't > need to SSH directly into sourceforge, the script on tei-c.org > does that for you. What you need to do is add the TEI's SSH > public key to your sourceforge account so that it can rsync the > new files to download section. No work for the release should > really be happening on your local machine. That bit might need > to be rephrased. ok, so the procedure (for this step) is 1. log in to the tei server 2. cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub 3. paste that into https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh right? Then I would propose to modify tcw22.xml accordingly. Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140109/7d801de9/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 11:11:37 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:11:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CECA39.9080707@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 16:07, Peter Stadler wrote: > ok, so the procedure (for this step) is > 1. log in to the tei server > 2. cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub > 3. paste that into https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh > right? Basically. It is just you have to be careful about removing the linebreaks that copying-and-pasting that key into SF will add. (i.e. the key is a single line but will be displayed over multiple lines in your terminal window.) I know that seems a trivial point, but I believe it came up once before. > Then I would propose to modify tcw22.xml accordingly. Agreed (with a expansion about the linebreaks). -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 11:26:41 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 11:26:41 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21198.52673.740880.698990@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> OK, I'll add a short note now, but where does the detailed prose go? (As we've already mentioned, the community needs some warning about this, because lots of people will get bitten.) > You were meant to add it to the P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml > file. > > It doesn't need to be detailed prose, just a short note. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 11:45:37 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2014 16:45:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <21198.52673.740880.698990@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> <21198.52673.740880.698990@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CED231.1020505@it.ox.ac.uk> On 09/01/14 16:26, Syd Bauman wrote: > OK, I'll add a short note now, but where does the detailed prose go? > (As we've already mentioned, the community needs some warning about > this, because lots of people will get bitten.) Email it to me, I'll put it somewhere as yet decided and point people at it. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 11:50:56 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 08:50:56 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Next TEI-C Guidelines Release (presumably 2.6.0) In-Reply-To: <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52655E98.6050102@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9C5C8.9090802@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CDF0.2010208@it.ox.ac.uk> <52A9CE4E.9000204@it.ox.ac.uk> <21185.39862.47394.788997@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <975F0EFC-A6CA-4C98-B0A6-2F4BB9BF5EA1@edirom.de> <52CAEB8F.6060406@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CBFE29.4050007@it.ox.ac.uk> <21196.15699.384769.617845@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <21198.42514.210658.832066@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEB2EB.2040205@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CED370.5050505@uvic.ca> I've updated TCW22. The relevant bit now says: The release manager will need SSH login access to the tei account on the tei-c.org server. This involves two steps: Generate an SSH key pair (if you don't have one already). If this is new to you, look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ssh-keygen. Send the public key to the Council Chair, who will forward it on to the system administrator. Make sure you get this set up well in advance of the release day, and make sure you can ssh tei at tei-c.org successfully. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-09 06:32 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 09/01/14 13:37, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> If you want (James), I'll write up a draft for you tomorrow. >> >> James -- who is writing this, you, me, or someone else? > > You were meant to add it to the P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml > file. > > It doesn't need to be detailed prose, just a short note. > > -James > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 12:03:35 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:03:35 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52CED667.3070605@uvic.ca> I've updated step 7 as follows: --- A copy of the public key that will enable you to sync the release zip with SourceForge. log in to the tei server (ssh tei at tei-c.org -- this requires that you've completed the other public key step above). cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub and copy the contents to the clipboard. paste that into https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh What this does is to enable you (when logged in as tei to tei-c.org) to connect to SourceForge (as your SF user) to upload the release files. --- Cheers, Martin On 14-01-09 08:07 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > > Am 09.01.2014 um 16:56 schrieb James Cummings : > >> Downloading a copy to your local machine is optional you don't >> need to SSH directly into sourceforge, the script on tei-c.org >> does that for you. What you need to do is add the TEI's SSH >> public key to your sourceforge account so that it can rsync the >> new files to download section. No work for the release should >> really be happening on your local machine. That bit might need >> to be rephrased. > > ok, so the procedure (for this step) is > 1. log in to the tei server > 2. cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub > 3. paste that into https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh > > right? > Then I would propose to modify tcw22.xml accordingly. > > Peter > > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 12:05:09 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:05:09 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CECA39.9080707@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> <52CECA39.9080707@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CED6C5.4070507@uvic.ca> Good point. Now added. On 14-01-09 08:11 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 09/01/14 16:07, Peter Stadler wrote: >> ok, so the procedure (for this step) is >> 1. log in to the tei server >> 2. cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub >> 3. paste that into https://sourceforge.net/account/ssh >> right? > > Basically. It is just you have to be careful about removing the > linebreaks that copying-and-pasting that key into SF will add. > (i.e. the key is a single line but will be displayed over > multiple lines in your terminal window.) I know that seems a > trivial point, but I believe it came up once before. > >> Then I would propose to modify tcw22.xml accordingly. > > Agreed (with a expansion about the linebreaks). > > -James > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 12:06:25 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:06:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <52CED6C5.4070507@uvic.ca> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> <52CECA39.9080707@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CED6C5.4070507@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84C487@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> if you don?t have the tei?s key on SF, it just asks you for your password instead?. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 12:11:49 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 09:11:49 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Stylesheets release, and how to make releases on new server In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84C487@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A83BA48@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52CE8498.5010507@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CEA738.3010409@uvic.ca> <79EE7CED-5506-4A44-B475-914C021EFD4B@edirom.de> <52CEC693.8040708@it.ox.ac.uk> <81E43A9D-CFC9-417A-B19A-979F4FD7C925@edirom.de> <52CECA39.9080707@it.ox.ac.uk> <52CED6C5.4070507@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84C487@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CED855.4070107@uvic.ca> On 14-01-09 09:06 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > if you don?t have the tei?s key on SF, it just asks you for your password instead?. That definitely wasn't the case in the past; I remember SF documentation specifically saying that they only allowed key access. Maybe they've loosened up, but it might only be temporary. Or you may have more privileges since you're an admin on the SF account. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 13:11:23 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:11:23 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation Message-ID: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I am about ready to check-in the new extract-isosch.xsl and changes to the GLs to go with it. 1) Can someone remind me (a git novice) *how* to check in the stylesheet change, and more importantly (other than typing fast), how to check those and the GL changes in so that Mr. Jenkins uses both new versions? 2) The changes to extract-isosch.xsl are pretty extensive. The most important thing (besides adding the @validUntil stuff) is that namespaces are now handled much more reasonably. However, there is a possible problem; see below. 4) @validUntil is not handled when it is on a that itself is inside a 3) The context= of a constraint that does not have one is now reasonably set when the constraint is in: * elementSpec//attDef * elementSpec It is handled, but not very well yet, when in * classSpec//attDef * classSpec It is not handled (but should be -- I think I know how, just haven't got to it) when a child of * schemaSpec It is not handled (and should not be) when in * macroSpec I have taken the liberty of unilaterally deciding that having a constraint in that does not specify a context should not be allowed, and added a to to flag when this occurs. Note that although classSpec//attDef, classSpec, and schemaSpec situations are not handled well, we don't actually use these. possible problem -------- ------- I'm not sure, but I think the extraction will screw up if the input document has two or more different URIs assigned to the same prefix. E.g.: At least one date normalization attribute should be specified. At least one date normalization attribute should be specified. Here the prefix 's' has been bound to 2 different URIs. We don't have this situation in P5,[1] so I don't think we should let it stop us from moving on. But if a user has this situation in her customization ODD, and then tries to reference thee 's:' prefix in a (either explicitly, or because the is in a specification with an ns= value that's one of the two URIs assigned to 's') ... I don't know what will happen, but I doubt it will be the right thing. Notes ----- [1] In case you're curious, the namespaces prefix bindings we have in P5 are: 79295 79295 4630 4078 115 37 29 21 13 12 10 9 9 8 4 From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 13:41:22 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:41:22 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CEED52.2000606@uvic.ca> On 14-01-09 10:11 AM, Syd Bauman wrote: > I am about ready to check-in the new extract-isosch.xsl and changes > to the GLs to go with it. > > 1) Can someone remind me (a git novice) *how* to check in the > stylesheet change, and more importantly (other than typing fast), > how to check those and the GL changes in so that Mr. Jenkins uses > both new versions? Can't help with Git (I can never remember the commands), but I would suggest committing the Stylesheet changes first; then watch Jenkins build the Stylesheets, and when it's two or three minutes from completion, check in your SF changes. The chances of this working are pretty small, though; when the Stylesheets build completes, it will trigger the P5 builds, but so will your P5 commit, and there's a good chance Jinks will check the P5 SVN between when you check in your P5 changes and the Stylesheets build completes. > 2) The changes to extract-isosch.xsl are pretty extensive. The most > important thing (besides adding the @validUntil stuff) is that > namespaces are now handled much more reasonably. However, there > is a possible problem; see below. > > 4) @validUntil is not handled when it is on a that itself > is inside a > > 3) The context= of a constraint that does not have one is now > reasonably set when the constraint is in: > * elementSpec//attDef > * elementSpec > It is handled, but not very well yet, when in > * classSpec//attDef > * classSpec > It is not handled (but should be -- I think I know how, just > haven't got to it) when a child of > * schemaSpec I was thinking of exactly this recently: for the Map of London project, we maintain a separate Schematron file full of constraints like this: "Straight apostrophe" characters are not permitted. Please use the Right Single Quotation Mark (U+2019) character instead. In other words, we force the use of a curly apostrophe instead of a straight one in all text nodes. This sort of thing should really be in the ODD file. Is this the sort of thing you imagine being a child of ? > It is not handled (and should not be) when in > * macroSpec > I have taken the liberty of unilaterally deciding that having a > constraint in that does not specify a context should > not be allowed, and added a to > to flag when this occurs. > Note that although classSpec//attDef, classSpec, and schemaSpec > situations are not handled well, we don't actually use these. > > possible problem > -------- ------- > I'm not sure, but I think the extraction will screw up if the input > document has two or more different URIs assigned to the same prefix. > E.g.: > > > > > At least one > date normalization attribute should be > specified. > > > > > > > > > At least one > date normalization attribute should be > specified. > > > > > Here the prefix 's' has been bound to 2 different URIs. We don't have > this situation in P5,[1] so I don't think we should let it stop us > from moving on. But if a user has this situation in her customization > ODD, and then tries to reference thee 's:' prefix in a > (either explicitly, or because the is in a specification > with an ns= value that's one of the two URIs assigned to 's') ... I > don't know what will happen, but I doubt it will be the right thing. This would be a perverse case, surely. Even if it's not technically wrong, it would be bad practice to bind the same prefix to two different namespaces in the same document. Cheers, Martin > Notes > ----- > [1] In case you're curious, the namespaces prefix bindings we have in P5 are: > 79295 > 79295 > 4630 > 4078 > 115 > 37 > 29 > 21 > 13 > 12 > 10 > 9 > 9 > 8 > 4 > > From philomousos at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 13:47:59 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 13:47:59 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> On Jan 9, 2014, at 13:11 , Syd Bauman wrote: > I am about ready to check-in the new extract-isosch.xsl and changes > to the GLs to go with it. > > 1) Can someone remind me (a git novice) *how* to check in the > stylesheet change, and more importantly (other than typing fast), > how to check those and the GL changes in so that Mr. Jenkins uses > both new versions? > git add extract-isosch.xsl git commit -m "Your commit message." git pull ?rebase origin master #make sure your commit gets written on top of any remote commits git push origin master #commit in the svn sense Should do it. This assumes the usual GitHub setup, where your remote is nicknamed "origin" and your main branch is named "master". > 2) The changes to extract-isosch.xsl are pretty extensive. The most > important thing (besides adding the @validUntil stuff) is that > namespaces are now handled much more reasonably. However, there > is a possible problem; see below. > > 4) @validUntil is not handled when it is on a that itself > is inside a > > 3) The context= of a constraint that does not have one is now > reasonably set when the constraint is in: > * elementSpec//attDef > * elementSpec > It is handled, but not very well yet, when in > * classSpec//attDef > * classSpec > It is not handled (but should be -- I think I know how, just > haven't got to it) when a child of > * schemaSpec > It is not handled (and should not be) when in > * macroSpec > I have taken the liberty of unilaterally deciding that having a > constraint in that does not specify a context should > not be allowed, and added a to > to flag when this occurs. > Note that although classSpec//attDef, classSpec, and schemaSpec > situations are not handled well, we don't actually use these. > > possible problem > -------- ------- > I'm not sure, but I think the extraction will screw up if the input > document has two or more different URIs assigned to the same prefix. > E.g.: > > > > > At least one > date normalization attribute should be > specified. > > > > > > > > > At least one > date normalization attribute should be > specified. > > > > > Here the prefix 's' has been bound to 2 different URIs. We don't have > this situation in P5,[1] so I don't think we should let it stop us > from moving on. But if a user has this situation in her customization > ODD, and then tries to reference thee 's:' prefix in a > (either explicitly, or because the is in a specification > with an ns= value that's one of the two URIs assigned to 's') ... I > don't know what will happen, but I doubt it will be the right thing. > > > Notes > ----- > [1] In case you're curious, the namespaces prefix bindings we have in P5 are: > 79295 > 79295 > 4630 > 4078 > 115 > 37 > 29 > 21 > 13 > 12 > 10 > 9 > 9 > 8 > 4 > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 13:51:23 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 10:51:23 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Teleconference 2014-01-10 In-Reply-To: <52CE8A21.4020708@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CE8A21.4020708@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CEEFAB.2070907@uvic.ca> For those new to the Council: I've been able to Skype into the teleconference system successfully for previous meetings, and I know this has worked for other people in North America. (Has anyone done it from Europe?) The advantage of this for me is that I can wear headphones with a mic and be able to type while I listen (I don't have a phone I could easily attach that kind of device to). It presumably also saves the TEI a bit of money, although I have no way of confirming that. If no-one else volunteers, I'll do minutes, but it will be 6am for me, so I'm not likely to be on the ball. If there's someone in a better timezone that could do them, that might be better. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-09 03:38 AM, James Cummings wrote: > Dear TEI Technical Council, > > As you will remember we have a teleconference scheduled for > 2pm(GMT)[1] tomorrow 10 January 2014. > > *Can I have a volunteer to take minutes?* > > The currently very skimpy agenda is at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-01 > *Please add things to the minutes!* Please also update the wiki > page at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Oxford2013-Actions2 with > the current state of your actions. > > The connection information is below. We'll be using the same > conferencing system as last time run by > economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in > toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the > Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. > > (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical > location as another council member, do consider sharing a > conference/speaker phone.) > > US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 > Canada: Use US number. > UK: 0800-016-3440 > Germany: 0800-182-0270 > France: 0800-916-758 > Italy: 800-789-804 > > (If you need a different country number, please contact me asap.) > > You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice > saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. > > Tomorrow, dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access > code: > 4614041 followed by the # button. > > You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute > your line using *6. > > Questions? > > Updates to the agenda? > > -James > > [1] Want to know when this is in your timezone? See > timeanddate.com e.g. > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20140110T14&p1=1233&p2=1091&p3=784&p4=878&p5=195&p6=215&p7=994 > From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 14:07:06 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:07:06 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] chilling before release, warming a little In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AC58@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A846415@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21197.56307.381534.354720@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CE6DC2.8080406@it.ox.ac.uk> <21198.41967.170751.513123@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84AC58@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21198.62298.206769.402532@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> True enough, but there are other ways to break things. (And I've found a few!) But by now you're right, it's stable enough I shouldn't worry so much. > if you check in a revised ValidatorLog.xml file at the same time as > the revised extract-isosch.xsl, then things won?t break. > changing that ValidatorLog file each time isn?t a worry. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 17:09:36 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 22:09:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D604@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jan 2014, at 18:11, Syd Bauman wrote: > I am about ready to check-in the new extract-isosch.xsl and changes > to the GLs to go with it. > > 1) Can someone remind me (a git novice) *how* to check in the > stylesheet change, and more importantly (other than typing fast), > how to check those and the GL changes in so that Mr. Jenkins uses > both new versions? * do the Stylesheets, wait until that build finish (a few minutes) * do the P5 changes simples. > > 3) The context= of a constraint that does not have one is now > reasonably set when the constraint is in: > * elementSpec//attDef > * elementSpec > It is handled, but not very well yet, when in > * classSpec//attDef > * classSpec without itemising every member of the class, I can?t see how you _can_ get this right. is that what you plan to do? > It is not handled (but should be -- I think I know how, just > haven't got to it) when a child of > * schemaSpec > It is not handled (and should not be) when in > * macroSpec are these contexts not just ?tei:*?? if indeed there are examples of such > I have taken the liberty of unilaterally deciding that having a > constraint in that does not specify a context should > not be allowed, and added a to > to flag when this occurs. fair enough. I can see that it could be desirable to add a constraint to one of the data.* macros, checking on the date in some way. for example, would you use this to check that the date was always the first Monday of the month? > > possible problem > -------- ------- > I'm not sure, but I think the extraction will screw up if the input > document has two or more different URIs assigned to the same prefix. this seems to me the sort of thing that makes James Clark look gloomy and say he wishes namespace prefixes to the devil. I?d be quite surprised if you could ever really sort this out automatically. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 17:58:21 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:58:21 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <52CEED52.2000606@uvic.ca> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEED52.2000606@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21199.10637.632903.841330@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > I was thinking of exactly this recently: for the Map of London > project, we maintain a separate Schematron file full of constraints > like this: > > > > "Straight apostrophe" characters are not permitted. Please > use the Right Single Quotation Mark (U+2019) character > instead. > > > > In other words, we force the use of a curly apostrophe instead of a > straight one in all text nodes. This sort of thing should really be > in the ODD file. Is this the sort of thing you imagine being a > child of ? Sure! This rule, of course, has a context=, so it is not affected by how we generate a context= for those without. If anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to speak up. Possibilities high on my list are: 1) / (i.e., root) 2) /* (i.e., outermost element, whatever it is) 3) those elements specified on start= 4) those elements specified on start= when a child of root 5) the outermost of the elements specified on start= (In all but quite unusual circumstances, 2-5 would all yield the same result.) > This [2 differnt URIs bound to same prefix in different parts of > ODD] would be a perverse case, surely. Even if it's not technically > wrong, it would be bad practice to bind the same prefix to two > different namespaces in the same document. Definitely would be against my idea of "best practices". :-) From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 18:03:38 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:03:38 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Thanks, Hugh. > git add extract-isosch.xsl > git commit -m "Your commit message." > git pull ?rebase origin master #make sure your commit gets written on top of any remote commits > git push origin master #commit in the svn sense But do I really want write on top of remote commits? If you or Sebastian has updated the file while in the meantime, I don't just want to clobber what you've done. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 9 18:07:18 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 23:07:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D90C@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jan 2014, at 23:03, Syd Bauman wrote: > Thanks, Hugh. > >> git add extract-isosch.xsl >> git commit -m "Your commit message." >> git pull ?rebase origin master #make sure your commit gets written on top of any remote commits >> git push origin master #commit in the svn sense > > But do I really want write on top of remote commits? If you or > Sebastian has updated the file while in the meantime, I don't just > want to clobber what you've done. I confess, I dont understand that 3rd command why not do git pull first, to make sure you?re up to date? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 18:19:26 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:19:26 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D604@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D604@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21199.11902.315788.84569@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > > * classSpec > > without itemising every member of the class, I can?t see how you > _can_ get this right. is that what you plan to do? Exactly. For the attributes I special-cased classes containing 'global', so as not to have a test for 500+ elements. As for model classes, I think model.common is probably the biggest at 113 members. That doesn't seem so bad. > I can see that it could be desirable to add a constraint to one of > the data.* macros, checking on the date in some way. for example, > would you use this to check that the date was always the first > Monday of the month? Yes, perfectly reasonable thing to want to do. All I'm saying is you'd have to figure out the darn context on your own! > this seems to me the sort of thing that makes James Clark look > gloomy and say he wishes namespace prefixes to the devil. I?d be > quite surprised if you could ever really sort this out > automatically. Me too. I think it is probably pretty easy to generate an error message, but pretty hard to know what to do. To be honest, I really don't have a problem with telling ODD customization writers they shouldn't do this. (Heck, I don't mind telling *everybody* they shouldn't do this. :-) From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 18:22:53 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:22:53 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21199.10637.632903.841330@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEED52.2000606@uvic.ca> <21199.10637.632903.841330@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52CF2F4D.9040604@uvic.ca> On 14-01-09 02:58 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >> I was thinking of exactly this recently: for the Map of London >> project, we maintain a separate Schematron file full of constraints >> like this: >> >> >> >> "Straight apostrophe" characters are not permitted. Please >> use the Right Single Quotation Mark (U+2019) character >> instead. >> >> >> >> In other words, we force the use of a curly apostrophe instead of a >> straight one in all text nodes. This sort of thing should really be >> in the ODD file. Is this the sort of thing you imagine being a >> child of ? > > Sure! This rule, of course, has a context=, so it is not affected by > how we generate a context= for those without. If anyone has any > thoughts on this, feel free to speak up. Possibilities high on my > list are: > 1) / (i.e., root) This has my vote; I can imagine circumstances in which you might want to require the presence of a PI or something like that. Cheers, Martin > 2) /* (i.e., outermost element, whatever it is) > 3) those elements specified on start= > 4) those elements specified on start= when a child of root > 5) the outermost of the elements specified on start= > > (In all but quite unusual circumstances, 2-5 would all yield the same > result.) > > >> This [2 differnt URIs bound to same prefix in different parts of >> ODD] would be a perverse case, surely. Even if it's not technically >> wrong, it would be bad practice to bind the same prefix to two >> different namespaces in the same document. > > Definitely would be against my idea of "best practices". :-) > From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Jan 9 19:35:06 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 19:35:06 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <52CF2F4D.9040604@uvic.ca> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CEED52.2000606@uvic.ca> <21199.10637.632903.841330@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52CF2F4D.9040604@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21199.16442.780260.314068@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > > 1) > > This [#1, / (i.e., root)] has my vote; I can imagine circumstances in > which you might want to require the presence of a PI or something > like that. Yeah, there is something nice about root, here. You can check for PIs at the root from anywhere else, of course: Not enough PIs for this investigation I lean towards (1), the root, too. Besides being easy to do, it's easy to document and explain. The argument in favor of (3), (4), or (5) is that the expression generated may be somewhat long and cumbersome, so that default would save the user a headache. Saving the user "" isn't really much to crow about. That said, I'm hard pressed to think of constraints where those are particularly useful contexts. (For most constraints I can think of, it barely matters what we do here: either anything we generate would be fine because the rule only has to fire once and it doesn't matter when; or nothing we generate would be useful, so the user has to write their own context= anyway.) From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 9 20:20:56 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:20:56 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D604@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D604@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52CF4AF8.7040405@uvic.ca> On 14-01-09 02:09 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >1) Can someone remind me (a git novice)*how* to check in the >> > stylesheet change, and more importantly (other than typing fast), >> > how to check those and the GL changes in so that Mr. Jenkins uses >> > both new versions? > * do the Stylesheets, wait until that build finish (a few minutes) > * do the P5 changes > > simples. That'll work as long as no-one else is checking in changes to either tree during the process -- which should be the case at this stage. Cheers, Martin From philomousos at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 21:45:17 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:45:17 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: You won't, unless we've edited the same lines of the same file, and then you probably want yours to win anyway. Sent from my phone. > On Jan 9, 2014, at 18:03, Syd Bauman wrote: > > Thanks, Hugh. > >> git add extract-isosch.xsl >> git commit -m "Your commit message." >> git pull ?rebase origin master #make sure your commit gets written on top of any remote commits >> git push origin master #commit in the svn sense > > But do I really want write on top of remote commits? If you or > Sebastian has updated the file while in the meantime, I don't just > want to clobber what you've done. > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From philomousos at gmail.com Thu Jan 9 21:49:35 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 21:49:35 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] issues on Schematron and deprecation In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D90C@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <21198.58955.451384.344242@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <2EA2C2E1-6ACB-463E-BDCE-79070CB0ECC0@gmail.com> <21199.10954.994369.980584@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A84D90C@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Avoids merge commits, which are usually extraneous. The result should be exactly the same. Sent from my phone. > On Jan 9, 2014, at 18:07, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >> On 9 Jan 2014, at 23:03, Syd Bauman wrote: >> >> Thanks, Hugh. >> >>> git add extract-isosch.xsl >>> git commit -m "Your commit message." >>> git pull ?rebase origin master #make sure your commit gets written on top of any remote commits >>> git push origin master #commit in the svn sense >> >> But do I really want write on top of remote commits? If you or >> Sebastian has updated the file while in the meantime, I don't just >> want to clobber what you've done. > > I confess, I dont understand that 3rd command > > why not do > > git pull > > first, to make sure you?re up to date? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Fri Jan 10 03:15:16 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:15:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] January 2014 teleconference In-Reply-To: <52CEC938.1030900@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <742736866.2392944.1389341716416.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> what a pity S -- Stefanie Gehrke ------------------------ Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima Campus Condorcet 3 rue de la Croix Faron 93206 Saint-Denis Cedex T?l. : +33 (0)1 55 93 75 00 www.biblissima-condorcet.fr @biblissima ----- Mail original ----- De: "James Cummings" ?: tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU Envoy?: Jeudi 9 Janvier 2014 17:07:20 Objet: Re: [tei-council] January 2014 teleconference Hi Stefanie, I had emailed Torsten about this but so far got no response. -James On 09/01/14 07:15, Stefanie Gehrke wrote: > Hi James, > > Thanks again for all your effort. > > Do we already have a proposal for the working group, we recently discussed, sent by Torsten ? > > Regards > Stefanie > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Fri Jan 10 03:37:51 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:37:51 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI 2.6.0 Release In-Reply-To: References: <52CEB18C.9000003@it.ox.ac.uk> <370315B7-2D25-4E52-AAE0-BFEF778ADA40@edirom.de> Message-ID: <83018735-116E-4C54-B52F-4F8B552F9DC9@edirom.de> Am 10.01.2014 um 01:27 schrieb Ian Rifkin: > Hi, > > I added your SSH key to the tei user on the server. Please let me know if there are any issues. > > Regards, > Ian Just tested and works like a charm ? thanks! Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140110/df6acc6f/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 10 07:10:35 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:10:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Teleconference Minutes, agenda, actions Message-ID: <52CFE33B.8090109@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi TEI Council, Since no one else has volunteered I'm going to ask Martin to take minutes but others can edit the document as it goes. I've opened up a blank google doc at: http://tinyurl.com/TEI-2014-01-10 which is world writeable. Please also add any last minute agenda items to: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-01 and make sure you've updated whether you've done your actions at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Oxford2013-Actions2 -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 10 08:40:01 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:40:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A851215@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> for those of you who have not seen the thing called ?TEI Simple? in its latest incarnation, the document is at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/teisimple.pdf -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Fri Jan 10 08:42:53 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:42:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Release changelog Message-ID: <2F6E6931-F7C9-4D87-86B5-A0E7A65CCF11@edirom.de> James tasked me to go through P5/ReleaseNotes/ChangeLog in order to beef up the release notes at P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml Since I have not been involved in council work for the relevant period I do find it a little hard to just guess by the commit messages on how important this particular change was. So, I turned the (relevant period of the) changelog into a spreadsheet (world writable) at [1] and my idea is that everyone can just flag his/her commits she/he thinks are important. What do you think? Totally nonsense? Second, I think the issue comes up during every release preparation and I wonder whether it might be good practice to add some special keywords (e.g [ignore], [fix], [important]) to the commit messages already to facilitate the task of creating a meaningful changelog? In fact, I think there are tools that will do that for you but I have not much expertise in this field. Best Peter [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkN0Bwd13zYgdHFPUlB2enRKQk50U08zZzZ0LXplMlE&usp=sharing -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140110/bc1fbfc8/attachment.bin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 10 10:10:04 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 15:10:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Release changelog In-Reply-To: <2F6E6931-F7C9-4D87-86B5-A0E7A65CCF11@edirom.de> References: <2F6E6931-F7C9-4D87-86B5-A0E7A65CCF11@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52D00D4C.7060805@retired.ox.ac.uk> I've taken a few moments off from sitting on the beach watching the wind blow the filaos trees about to add three items to the readme no, don't thank me, it's the least i could do. On 10/01/14 13:42, Peter Stadler wrote: > James tasked me to go through P5/ReleaseNotes/ChangeLog in order to beef up the release notes at P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml > Since I have not been involved in council work for the relevant period I do find it a little hard to just guess by the commit messages on how important this particular change was. So, I turned the (relevant period of the) changelog into a spreadsheet (world writable) at [1] and my idea is that everyone can just flag his/her commits she/he thinks are important. > What do you think? Totally nonsense? > > Second, I think the issue comes up during every release preparation and I wonder whether it might be good practice to add some special keywords (e.g [ignore], [fix], [important]) to the commit messages already to facilitate the task of creating a meaningful changelog? In fact, I think there are tools that will do that for you but I have not much expertise in this field. > > Best > Peter > > [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkN0Bwd13zYgdHFPUlB2enRKQk50U08zZzZ0LXplMlE&usp=sharing > > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jan 10 11:19:37 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 08:19:37 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Release changelog In-Reply-To: <2F6E6931-F7C9-4D87-86B5-A0E7A65CCF11@edirom.de> References: <2F6E6931-F7C9-4D87-86B5-A0E7A65CCF11@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52D01D99.9000103@uvic.ca> On 14-01-10 05:42 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > James tasked me to go through P5/ReleaseNotes/ChangeLog in order to > beef up the release notes at P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml Since I > have not been involved in council work for the relevant period I do > find it a little hard to just guess by the commit messages on how > important this particular change was. So, I turned the (relevant > period of the) changelog into a spreadsheet (world writable) at [1] > and my idea is that everyone can just flag his/her commits she/he > thinks are important. What do you think? Totally nonsense? No, it's a lot easier to read than commit logs. :-) And it reminded me that the popup footnotes are going to be new in this version of the Guidelines too -- I'll add that to the readme. > > Second, I think the issue comes up during every release preparation > and I wonder whether it might be good practice to add some special > keywords (e.g [ignore], [fix], [important]) to the commit messages > already to facilitate the task of creating a meaningful changelog? In > fact, I think there are tools that will do that for you but I have > not much expertise in this field. That would be a good idea, but major changes usually take a few commits to get them right; you'd end up with a smaller list of important commits, but many of them would be related to the same feature. Cheers, Martin > > Best Peter > > [1] > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkN0Bwd13zYgdHFPUlB2enRKQk50U08zZzZ0LXplMlE&usp=sharing > > > > From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Fri Jan 10 12:28:49 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:28:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A851215@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <796831153.2571912.1389374929330.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> read it - very interesting Regards Stefanie -- Stefanie Gehrke ------------------------ Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima Campus Condorcet 3 rue de la Croix Faron 93206 Saint-Denis Cedex T?l. : +33 (0)1 55 93 75 00 www.biblissima-condorcet.fr @biblissima ----- Mail original ----- De: "Sebastian Rahtz" ?: "TEI Council" Envoy?: Vendredi 10 Janvier 2014 14:40:01 Objet: [tei-council] TEI Simple for those of you who have not seen the thing called ?TEI Simple? in its latest incarnation, the document is at http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/teisimple.pdf -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Fri Jan 10 12:30:06 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 18:30:06 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] XPointer Message-ID: Hugh, I started reading TEI Pointers. Probably I could dig into past Council acts, but it's faster to ask... The revision is limited to 16.2.4? Fabio From s.bauman at neu.edu Fri Jan 10 21:52:11 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 21:52:11 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Schematron extraction issues Message-ID: <21200.45531.200521.377340@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I. -- As mentioned in a previous conversation between me & Sebastian, extract-isosch.xsl still does not do the right thing for default context of some constraints that are inside . Also we do not have @validUntil code for several constructs. These are constructs we are not using @validUntil on (yet), so this is not an urgent problem. I've created bug 363 for these and assigned it to myself. II. --- The extracted Schematron generates more than one which have the same prefix and URI. I'm not sure, but I don't *think* this is a violation of ISO/IEC 19757-3. And oXygen does not complaint. But probatron complains mightily: FATAL java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Cannot register a prefix or Namespace name that has already been registered We've had this situation for years, but at some point perhaps we should fix it. The only way I can see to do this is to add a complete internal pipeline pass which end up flattening the two namespace sections into one. (Currently, explicit ns copied from the input are separate from implicit ones generated from the namespace nodes of the input.) If someone sees a better way, let me know, or go ahead and throw it in there. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 11 04:05:58 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 09:05:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de> References: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de> Message-ID: <52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> Dear Council, I entirely neglected to forward this to Council and mention it during the TeleConference. Mea Culpa. This is Torsten's WG Proposal (attached) for a TEI Object working group. It does not include any costings for a face-to-face, but I would suspect that it would probably cost less than 50% of a council face-to-face. (Since we could have less people attending it, institutional contributions, piggy-back on important conferences, or be in some central location.) Please read the attached proposal and comment back to Council list (but CC'ing in Torsten and Oyvind) during the next couple weeks. Many thanks, -James -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: TEI Object Working Group Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:18:14 +0100 From: Torsten Schassan To: CC: , , , Hi James, hi all, here are some ideas on how to structure the work on the object matter. It doesn't go very much into detail but summarises the discussions held in various meetings and proposes a schedule. No words about the costs here but financial help to meet f2f might be needed unless the interested people will meet at certain occasions anyway. I hope this will be helpful. Best, Torsten -- Torsten Schassan Digitale Editionen Abteilung Handschriften und Sondersammlungen Herzog August Bibliothek, Postfach 1364, D-38299 Wolfenbuettel Tel.: +49-5331-808-130 (Fax -165), schassan {at} hab.de Handschriftendatenbank: http://diglib.hab.de/?db=mss -------------- next part -------------- ?A working group (WG) on the matter will have to consider whether * it will restrain itself to the description of objects that carry texts (in a broad sense) or allow for the description of objects of any kind; * it wants to incorporate the manuscript description elements in the content model of an element (or the like, to be created). Such a hierarchy would follow the examples of the , , and elements (ch. 13) which serve as a space to collect information about a person, organisation, or place and to which is referred by , , and elements. * the manuscript description elements could be extended to cover the description of objects of all kinds or whether the existing elements and the existing hierarchy of elements represent cataloguing traditions that make it difficult to cover other objects than (western medieval) manuscripts. * the fact that a description of an object could be either metadata or data has any influence on the structure of the markup of the descrription or whether the same elements could be used in either places. (i.e. relationship between TEI documents and objects) The WG has to take the following steps: 1. get in touch with non-manuscript communities in order to find out about missing elements and attributes, needed or misleading structures within the description or the possibilities to use the manuscript description structures at all for their purposes. 2. find out about the possibilities to just reword the chapter on msdescription and by this cover objects of other kinds 3. decide upon the integration of the object description in the chapter on entities (person, org, place) or to leave it separate. 4. prepare an ODD which represents the forseen changes Materials that have to be taken into consideration * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/326/ to establish and for (real world) objects mentioned in texts * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/187/ discussion on Schedule 2014 Jan - 2014 Jul/Oct Review of ch. 10 (msdescription) and exchange with non-mss communities, decision whether to integrate it in ch. 13 2014 Oct - 2015 Oct establish a text and prepare ODD The WG should meet face-to-face at least twice in order to review the existing wording in the first step and finalise a proposal for the TEI Council in the second step. Possible occasions might be any major DH meeting, e.g. 26-28 March 2014 in Passau, 7-12 July 2014 in Lausanne, 20-25 October 2014 TEI MM The WG might have a look at the semantical representation of the description of objects e.g. through CIDOC-CRM. The WG might consider to propose a way to allow for negative expressions such as "There are no illustrations present". From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Jan 11 20:51:04 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 20:51:04 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] chilly bug fixed Message-ID: <21201.62728.998238.356880@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Peter S., et. al -- I found 2 bugs in the Schematron code of p5odds.odd tonight. I fixed them, and tested it. The change does not even generate a different ValidatorLog.xml, let alone break my build of P5. These were bugs that prevented rules we had intended from firing. So I'm going to consider this a non-controversial bug fix and check it in. Hopefully Mr. Jenkins will be fast enough that I'll even know if it worked before I go to bed. I'll also be changing the names for the publicationStmt classes and correcting a few mis-encoded class names either tonight or tomorrow. Hope that's all OK. P.S. Remember, s in the same don't fire if the *node* matched is the same as a preceding-sibling , not if the match *pattern* is the same. Sigh. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 12 03:29:29 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2014 08:29:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] HD changes Message-ID: <52D25269.7060901@retired.ox.ac.uk> I just checked in a revised edition of the Header chapter which contains some rewriting and clarification, but nothing new as far as schema, example, or stylesheet changes are concerned, So I hope this won't perturb the release process any more than it is already perturbed -- if it does, feel free to revert my change r12775. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 12:39:17 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:39:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 Message-ID: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> Dear TEI Council, Any reason why I shouldn't send this to TEI-L in the next hour or two? Suggested changes? -James ==== Dear TEI-L, The TEI Technical Council is planning to make a release of the TEI P5 Guidelines (version 2.6.0) on 20 January 2014 (if everything goes to plan). This release is currently available on our continuous integration server (Jenkins) as 2.6.0beta for proofreading by the Technical Council and the TEI community at large. As part of getting the community even more involved with the process of making release of the TEI Guidelines, we would be interested in getting any reports (feel free to send to me personally) of small typos or bugs relating to this release in particular. If they are major schema-changing bugs or new feature requests then they may have to wait until the next release and in that case submitting them at SourceForge: http://tei.sf.net/ is a better idea. Please submit any TEI P5 Version 2.6.0beta bugs/typos by 5pm (GMT) on Friday 17 January 2014. The draft release notes: http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/readme-2.6.0.html The draft 2.6.0 release (in its English version): http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/index.html The draft release notes are appended below. Some users may notice their elements not validating because of greater enforcement of the existing rules using schematron. For more information about this change in particular, please see http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/PublicationStmt-Changes (or ask here on TEI-L) Many thanks for any improvements. -James Cummings TEI Technical Council Chair === TEI P5 version 2.6.0beta release notes This version of the TEI Guidelines introduces new features and resolves a number of issues raised by the TEI community. As always, the majority of these changes and corrections are a consequence of feature requests or bugs reported by the TEI community using the SourceForge tracking system. If you find something you think needs to change in the TEI Guidelines, schemas, tools, or website, please submit a feature request or bug ticket at http://tei.sf.net/for consideration. Lists ofclosed bugs andclosed feature requests are available on the site. Some of the more noticeable changes inthis release include: * Footnotes in the Guidelines now appear in a popup box when you click on them, rather than causing a jump to the bottom of the page. (This function depends on JavaScript; if you have JS turned off, the old behaviour will still work.) * The prose restriction that the,
,,, andchildren ofoccur in that order has been removed. * The content model ofhas been updated to reflect the restrictions detailed in the prose of section2.2.4 Publication, Distribution, Licensing, etc. . * now claims membership of att.placement (and thus gets the at placeattribute) as perhttps://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/476/. * is now available as a child of(https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/472/), and the content models ofandhave been loosened (https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/433/;https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/478/) to allow more flexibility in the?top??tail?of sections (prompted by experience in EEBO TCP) * Poetry () is now allowed in the * Usage of at corresphas been clarified (https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/506/). * The value of the at matchPatternattribute is now defined as W3C XPath syntax rather than W3C XML Schema Language (https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/432/). This allows for more powerful regular expressions. * @perfonnow has the datatype 1+ data.pointer, instead of data.enumerated (http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/524/). * Support for ?pure ODD?: it is now possible to define content models using TEI XML constructs only, as an alternative to the use of RELAX NG. This change is discussed further in a paper by Burnard and Rahtz presented at2013's ACM Document Engineering conference . Support for the new syntax in ODD processing scripts is incomplete, however, and not yet fully tested. * Use of the elementthroughout the TEI specifications code was rationalised: mostly this involved removal of redundant commentary, but in some cases element or attribute descriptions have been extended or modified. * A newelement has been added to support descriptive metadata about a ?born-digital? item (such as a journal article in a review) to be stored in the TEI Header perhttps://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/506/ * @namehas been made optional (previously required) onas perhttps://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/467/since a Schematron test is in place to check whether one of at name, at ref, or at keyis available. * and,and others are examples of elements which used to have locally-declared at typeattributes which benefit from the ability to now modify class-provided attributes locally to the element. They now claim membership of att.typed (and thus get at typeand@subtypeattributes). Similarlyalso is now also a member of att.typed as perhttps://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/473/. * Theelement has been modified to not allow it to self-nest as perhttps://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/578 There are also some changes to the way the Council is managing the Guidelines: * Pre-release versions of the TEI P5 development tree are now tagged as ?alpha? and ?beta? in their version information. * In preparation for a program to get translations of reference documentation up to date, allandelements have been dated. This allows us to easily generate lists of translated blocks which are need revising. * More examples were added or corrected in this release and improvements to the overall way examples are maintained is under consideration by the TEI Technical Council. In addition, the XSL stylesheets which provide processing of TEI ODD files for Roma and OxGarage have been updated, notably providing better support for multi-namespace ODD. The Stylesheets are being maintained separately from the Guidelines and are athttps://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets. -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 12:51:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:51:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: personally, I?d be less verbose, and not attach the notes. so as below. but you may feel I am too terse. Dear TEI-L, The next release of the TEI Guidelines (version 2.6.0) is planned for 20 January 2014. The TEI Technical Council is now making this release available for a short period to allow members of the community to check it. Reports of small typos or bugs relating to this release should be sent direct to me. If you have new feature requests then they will have to wait until the next release and in that case submitting them at SourceForge: http://tei.sf.net/ is a better idea. Please submit any TEI P5 Version 2.6.0beta bugs/typos by 5pm (GMT) on Friday 17 January 2014. The draft release notes: http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/readme-2.6.0.html The draft 2.6.0 Guidelines release (in its English version): http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/index.html Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ Please note that Roma and OxGarage have _not_ been updated to this beta release. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 12:56:10 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:56:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> On 13/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > personally, I?d be less verbose, and not attach the notes. > so as below. but you may feel I am too terse. Fair enough, I do tend to waffle. > Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we modify that Apache rewrite rule? > Please note that Roma and OxGarage have _not_ been updated to this beta release. Good thought, it wouldn't have occurred to me to mention that... (I mean, of course they haven't, it isn't released.) Any other thoughts from others on Council? -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 13:04:26 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:04:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 13 Jan 2014, at 17:56, James Cummings wrote: isn?t it woffle? > >> Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ > > Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the > schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we > modify that Apache rewrite rule? eh? http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ works fine. my mistake. > >> Please note that Roma and OxGarage have _not_ been updated to this beta release. > > Good thought, it wouldn't have occurred to me to mention that... > (I mean, of course they haven't, it isn't released.) I am not sure how to say ?Look, folks, you?re going to have to really quite IT literate to test this release apart from reading the HTML.? of course New Roma will allow you to run against different versions. as Byzantium does if you grok that - a rare skill indeed. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jan 13 13:23:44 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 10:23:44 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D42F30.9050406@uvic.ca> Looks good to me. I might be inclined to suggest more clearly that people read the changed sections and proof the text for typos; that's the stuff that most often shows up immediately after a release, when Jens and others with attention-to-detail skills get to work on it. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-13 09:56 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > > On 13/01/14 17:51, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> personally, I?d be less verbose, and not attach the notes. >> so as below. but you may feel I am too terse. > > Fair enough, I do tend to waffle. > >> Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ > > Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the > schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we > modify that Apache rewrite rule? > >> Please note that Roma and OxGarage have _not_ been updated to this beta release. > > Good thought, it wouldn't have occurred to me to mention that... > (I mean, of course they haven't, it isn't released.) > > > Any other thoughts from others on Council? > > -James > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 14:57:11 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 19:57:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> On 13/01/14 18:04, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >> Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the >> schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we >> modify that Apache rewrite rule? > eh? > http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ > works fine. my mistake. But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* was my point. If I give http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ as a URL you go somewhere else. So if I gave the URL to tei_all it wouldn't be the same one. > I am not sure how to say ?Look, folks, you?re going to have to really quite > IT literate to test this release apart from reading the HTML.? If we get a few typos... Speaking of which, choosing a random page, http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-respons.html should there be a space between 'VERSION' and '2.6.0beta' since the links go to different places? And where it says 'TEI Guidelines' on that line surely we should specify 'TEI P5 Guidelines'. If you point me to where this is I could change it. > of course New Roma will allow you to run against different versions. as Byzantium does > if you grok that - a rare skill indeed. It would be good if someone tested the schemas, etc. Next on the list... how can they test the oxygen-tei framework before release, easily? -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jan 13 14:59:23 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 11:59:23 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D4459B.6020805@uvic.ca> On 14-01-13 11:57 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 13/01/14 18:04, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >>> Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the >>> schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we >>> modify that Apache rewrite rule? >> eh? >> http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >> works fine. my mistake. > > But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* was > my point. If I give > > http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ > > as a URL you go somewhere else. I don't. I see the list of schemas, as expected. What do you see? Where do you go? Cheers, Martin > So if I gave the URL to tei_all > it wouldn't be the same one. > >> I am not sure how to say ?Look, folks, you?re going to have to really quite >> IT literate to test this release apart from reading the HTML.? > > If we get a few typos... > Speaking of which, choosing a random page, > http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-respons.html > should there be a space between 'VERSION' and '2.6.0beta' since > the links go to different places? And where it says 'TEI > Guidelines' on that line surely we should specify 'TEI P5 > Guidelines'. If you point me to where this is I could change it. > >> of course New Roma will allow you to run against different versions. as Byzantium does >> if you grok that - a rare skill indeed. > > It would be good if someone tested the schemas, etc. Next on the > list... how can they test the oxygen-tei framework before > release, easily? > > -James > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 15:20:16 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 20:20:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <984d0fe2-df24-425f-a63e-5f165b2c9ac8@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 13 Jan 2014, at 19:57, James Cummings wrote: > But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* was my point. If I give > > http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ > > as a URL you go somewhere else. So if I gave the URL to tei_all it wouldn't be the same one. wow. Thats cosmic. I?ll investigate. > Speaking of which, choosing a random page, http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-respons.html should there be a space between 'VERSION' and '2.6.0beta' since the links go to different places? nice one. not sure, offhand. >> of course New Roma will allow you to run against different versions. as Byzantium does >> if you grok that - a rare skill indeed. > > It would be good if someone tested the schemas, etc. Next on the list... how can they test the oxygen-tei framework before release, easily? control this desire for everything to be _easy_. If you don?t put some hard work in, where?s the satisfaction? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 15:21:02 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 20:21:02 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D4459B.6020805@uvic.ca> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> <52D4459B.6020805@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85CCCE@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 13 Jan 2014, at 19:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >> But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* was >> my point. If I give >> >> http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ >> >> as a URL you go somewhere else. > > I don't. I see the list of schemas, as expected. but the _wrong ones_?.. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 13 15:45:02 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 20:45:02 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <46f4e556-3774-4667-85fb-9bf404d45ee8@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 13 Jan 2014, at 19:57, James Cummings wrote: > It would be good if someone tested the schemas, etc. you don?t trust Jenkins to do that, over and over and over again, ad nauseam? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 14 08:58:03 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 13:58:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <773c561c-2777-4ad8-b672-832eed6e27c1@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 13 Jan 2014, at 19:57, James Cummings wrote: > On 13/01/14 18:04, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> Schemas etc can be found at http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >>> Yes, I noticed that it seems to be impossible to point to the >>> schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... should we >>> modify that Apache rewrite rule? >> eh? >> http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >> works fine. my mistake. > > But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* was my point. If I give > > http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ > > as a URL you go somewhere else. So if I gave the URL to tei_all it wouldn't be the same one. I have solved this one. http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ now does the right thing It was an over-lax Rewritre in the Apache config. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 14 09:00:42 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:00:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <773c561c-2777-4ad8-b672-832eed6e27c1@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> <773c561c-2777-4ad8-b672-832eed6e27c1@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D5430A.2060503@it.ox.ac.uk> On 14/01/14 13:58, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> schemas using the tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ alias ... >>>> should we modify that Apache rewrite rule? >>> eh? >>> http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/ >>>works fine. my mistake. >> But it doesn't work if I give a more specific URL... *that* >> was my point. If I give > I have solved this one. > http://tei.it.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/ > now does the right thing > It was an over-lax Rewritre in the Apache config. Glad that you fixed it, and my guess turned out to be correct. ;-) This will all become a moot point when we have Jenkins set up on jenkins.tei-c.org since then, presumably, that will become the canonical home that we will point people to. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 14 09:40:56 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:40:56 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2d2d0f17-43e7-4f1f-a441-c5de8032a143@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 13 Jan 2014, at 19:57, James Cummings wrote: > > If we get a few typos... > Speaking of which, choosing a random page, http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-respons.html should there be a space between 'VERSION' and '2.6.0beta' since the links go to different places? space added, see e.g. http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/examples-additions.html > And where it says 'TEI Guidelines' on that line surely we should specify 'TEI P5 Guidelines'. If you point me to where this is I could change it. > I have no sea where that ?TEI Guidelines? comes from, offhand, sorry. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 14 11:37:15 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 08:37:15 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] draft: email to TEI-L for proofing TEI P5 In-Reply-To: <2d2d0f17-43e7-4f1f-a441-c5de8032a143@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52D424C5.8080106@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C581@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D428BA.5000002@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A85C714@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52D44517.3050600@it.ox.ac.uk> <2d2d0f17-43e7-4f1f-a441-c5de8032a143@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52D567BB.4050207@uvic.ca> On 14-01-14 06:40 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > >> And where it says 'TEI Guidelines' on that line surely we should specify 'TEI P5 Guidelines'. If you point me to where this is I could change it. >> > I have no sea where that ?TEI Guidelines? comes from, offhand, sorry. I think it's in the git repo, html/html-param.xsl: Text to link back to from foot of ODD reference pages TEI Guidelines If so, I'll leave it to a git-lover to change it. I get tangled up with git. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 14 15:50:30 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 12:50:30 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Last call for changes to teleconference minutes Message-ID: <52D5A316.6090708@uvic.ca> I know James specified Monday night as the deadline for changes to the minutes: but I forgot to remind everyone, and I won't have a chance to mark them up for a couple of days, so I'm setting a new deadline of the end of Wednesday. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jan 17 14:29:11 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:29:11 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Telco minutes marked up Message-ID: <52D98487.5020509@uvic.ca> Hi all, The minutes from the conference call on January 10 are now available here: There's a section for "Actions Arising" at the top, with actions for James, Sebastian, Lou, Paul, Fabio and myself, as well as one for all Council members. Please make sure you're aware of any actions assigned to you. Report any typos, bugs or oddities to me. Cheers, Martin From stadler at edirom.de Sat Jan 18 17:47:03 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 23:47:03 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 Message-ID: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> Dear all, this is to officially remind you of the upcoming release which we decided to be carried out next Monday (i.e. the day after tomorrow!) I (Peter, ?special status release technician?) plan to start things in the morning around 9 AM (CET). It?s been calm at tei at sourceforge in the last days so I assume that everyone is actually aware of this date and paused his/her work. Now the unofficial part. I?m a little bit nervous and appreciate any hand that will hold mine (not the whole day, but it?d be good to know someone (from Oxford?) being around). BTW, is the #tei-c IRC channel the best way to reach out for help since I?ve never seen someone around there? Or shall I send an email? Additionally some questions that came up: * P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml: is this considered complete by now? * item 7 from http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml seems outdated. ** I already log in as user tei and I?m not able to sudo (asks for password). Question 1: Do I need su power? ** I do not find a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find is the TEI svn subtree ?P5? at /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple ?svn up? on that directory enough? * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think the hostname case switch must be adjusted Some proposed changes to tcw22.xml so far: * "What you will need before you start?, item 2 (Shell access on the TEI SourceForge project) I propose to join this item with with 3 and 7 (well, not in one item but to have these in a sequence) and to add a line to the last one (or even a new item): Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * "Step-by-step instructions?, item 1 ("Ensure that P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml has been written?). The next line declares this to be an uncommon procedure since the TEI Council chair should have already create that file. So, it seems to me the actual issue for the release technician is to simply remove the ?beta? from the version number which can easily be forgotten when you are not looking closely at the following paragraph. I propose to change the heading to "remove ?beta? from P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml version number? and emphasize this procedure in the first paragraph.The edge case of creating that file can be discussed subsequently. Many thanks in advance and all the best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140118/c98ca1d9/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jan 18 18:27:20 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 15:27:20 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> Hi Peter, On 14-01-18 02:47 PM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > this is to officially remind you of the upcoming release which we > decided to be carried out next Monday (i.e. the day after tomorrow!) > I (Peter, ?special status release technician?) plan to start things > in the morning around 9 AM (CET). It?s been calm at tei at sourceforge > in the last days so I assume that everyone is actually aware of this > date and paused his/her work. > > Now the unofficial part. I?m a little bit nervous and appreciate any > hand that will hold mine (not the whole day, but it?d be good to know > someone (from Oxford?) being around). BTW, is the #tei-c IRC channel > the best way to reach out for help since I?ve never seen someone > around there? Or shall I send an email? People will definitely be there from early in the day in Europe, and then later in the day (if the process drags on for some reason) I'll show up before 5pm your time. > Additionally some questions that came up: * > P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml: is this considered complete by > now? That's a question for James, I think. > * item 7 from > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml seems > outdated. I think you're right. We used to have a system where you logged in as yourself, and they su-ed to "become" tei, but if we're now logging in as tei, that's unnecessary. James, David, Sebastian et al: should I change step 7 in the step-by-step instructions: so instead of this: ssh [youraccount]@tei-c.org sudo sutei (this should put you in the /home/tei directory) we have this: ssh tei at tei-c.org > ** I already log in as user tei and I?m not able to sudo > (asks for password). Question 1: Do I need su power? I'm pretty sure you don't. > ** I do not find > a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find is the TEI svn subtree > ?P5? at /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple > ?svn up? on that directory enough? * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think > the hostname case switch must be adjusted This looks like a major change from the original server setup. When you log in as tei, where do you find yourself? (pwd) > > Some proposed changes to tcw22.xml so far: * "What you will need > before you start?, item 2 (Shell access on the TEI SourceForge > project) I propose to join this item with with 3 and 7 (well, not in > one item but to have these in a sequence) and to add a line to the > last one (or even a new item): Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh > sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should > *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a > restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * Is "tei" a user on SourceForge? I didn't think so. I thought you had to use your own SourceForge credentials there, hence the instruction to set up ssh access. > "Step-by-step instructions?, item 1 ("Ensure that > P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml has been written?). The next line > declares this to be an uncommon procedure since the TEI Council chair > should have already create that file. You should definitely look at that file one last time and make sure it's OK. At least twice in the last few years the release process has had to be repeated because of typos or omissions in that file. :-) > So, it seems to me the actual > issue for the release technician is to simply remove the ?beta? from > the version number which can easily be forgotten when you are not > looking closely at the following paragraph. That seems correct in the instructions to me. It has its own complete step: Edit the P5/VERSION file to the correct number This file consists only of the bare version number, followed by "alpha" or "beta": 2.8.2beta For the release process, you need to remove the letters from the end, leaving a pure version number: 2.8.2 This changes the release from beta (or possibly alpha) to the actual release version number. After the release process has been completed, the number should be incremented appropriately, and "alpha" added to the end of it: 2.8.3alpha signifying that the versions built subsequent to the release are now in the alpha stage. > I propose to change the > heading to "remove ?beta? from P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml > version number? and emphasize this procedure in the first > paragraph. If you think that's clearer, we can certainly do that. >The edge case of creating that file can be discussed > subsequently. Rather than checking that it's there, the step should be to check that it's correct and complete. Cheers, Martin > > Many thanks in advance and all the best Peter > > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 18 18:37:12 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 23:37:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> Message-ID: <24B2D845-A7A9-4389-B2AB-0FA1FF20C1DC@it.ox.ac.uk> > > I?m a little bit nervous and appreciate any hand that will hold mine (not the whole day, but it?d be good to know someone (from Oxford?) being around). BTW, is the #tei-c IRC channel the best way to reach out for help since I?ve never seen someone around there? Or shall I send an email? Irc I suggest but copying to email does no harm I will be around on and off. > > > * item 7 from http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml seems outdated. > ** I already log in as user tei and I?m not able to sudo (asks for password). Question 1: Do I need su power? No. Forget all the sudo and sutei stuff. User tei has all the power needed > ** I do not find a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find is the TEI svn subtree ?P5? at /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple ?svn up? on that directory enough? Yes > * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think the hostname case switch must be adjusted I don't think so. That's unchanged, surely? Sebastian From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 18 18:41:45 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2014 23:41:45 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> On 18/01/14 22:47, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > this is to officially remind you of the upcoming release which > we decided to be carried out next Monday (i.e. the day after > tomorrow!) I (Peter, ?special status release technician?) plan > to start things in the morning around 9 AM (CET). It?s been > calm at tei at sourceforge in the last days so I assume that > everyone is actually aware of this date and paused his/her > work. Yes, I believe that to be the case. I might be unavailable from 9AM CET to 10am CET but fingers crossed that won't be too much of a problem. > Now the unofficial part. I?m a little bit nervous and > appreciate any hand that will hold mine (not the whole day, > but it?d be good to know someone (from Oxford?) being around). > BTW, is the #tei-c IRC channel the best way to reach out for > help since I?ve never seen someone around there? Or shall I > send an email? I'm in the #tei-c IRC on freenode.net almost all the time. (Though admittedly I'm just logged in, not necessarily looking at the screen. ;-) ) I'll definitely be checking there. However, I'll be on google hangouts, skype, and email. > Additionally some questions that came up: * > P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml: is this considered complete > by now? I believe so, but if you feel something is missing from it, either add it yourself or let me know. > * item 7 from > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw22.xml > seems outdated. Yes, amongst others. > ** I already log in as user tei and I?m not able to sudo (asks > for password). Question 1: Do I need su power? No, we only needed it to become the TEI user, and you are already that. > ** I do not find a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find > is the TEI svn subtree ?P5? at > /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple > ?svn up? on that directory enough? That seems to work, I just tried it. But can someone (Sebastian/Martin?) remind me what the local copy of SVN is used for other than the location the install scripts? (it is in ~/private/P5/Utilities/) > * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think the hostname case switch > must be adjusted Maybe, not sure. localhost comes back as: s16382816.onlinehome-server.info > > Some proposed changes to tcw22.xml so far: > * "What you will need before you start?, item 2 (Shell access > on the TEI SourceForge project) I propose to join this item > with with 3 and 7 (well, not in one item but to have these in > a sequence) and to add a line to the last one (or even a new > item): Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh > sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That > should *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! > This is a restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files > to/from here.? Makes sense. > * "Step-by-step instructions?, item 1 ("Ensure that > P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml has been written?). The next > line declares this to be an uncommon procedure since the TEI > Council chair should have already create that file. So, it > seems to me the actual issue for the release technician is to > simply remove the ?beta? from the version number which can > easily be forgotten when you are not looking closely at the > following paragraph. I propose to change the heading to > "remove ?beta? from P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml version > number? and emphasize this procedure in the first > paragraph.The edge case of creating that file can be discussed > subsequently. Fair enough. (Though I'd have no problem with the release technician creating the notes.... ;-) ) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 19 05:47:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:47:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 18 Jan 2014, at 23:41, James Cummings wrote: > >> ** I do not find a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find >> is the TEI svn subtree ?P5? at >> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple >> ?svn up? on that directory enough? > > That seems to work, I just tried it. But can someone > (Sebastian/Martin?) remind me what the local copy of SVN is used > for other than the location the install scripts? (it is in > ~/private/P5/Utilities/) thats it, we just need to make sure that one script is the latest. its not likely to change much, so this step almost always does nothing new. > > >> * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think the hostname case switch >> must be adjusted > > Maybe, not sure. localhost comes back as: > s16382816.onlinehome-server.info > my apologies, i said no change was needed here, but I think it probably is. am checking now. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 19 05:58:53 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:58:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 19 Jan 2014, at 10:47, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >>> * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think the hostname case switch >>> must be adjusted >> >> Maybe, not sure. localhost comes back as: >> s16382816.onlinehome-server.info >> > my apologies, i said no change was needed here, but I think it probably is. > am checking now. changed the script, ran it, seems to work ok. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 19 06:37:36 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:37:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <01727315-0F19-46C4-BCF8-B7DB629EA887@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <01727315-0F19-46C4-BCF8-B7DB629EA887@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8733DD@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I have temporarily masked out, in the P5 Makefile, the lines of deprecation warnings which are causing Jenkins to email everyone on every build. It will not stop the build failing if any more warnings come up, so there is no danger. The only difference is whether Jenkins reads these lines to decide if a build is yellow (mail us all) or green (do nothing). Can restore previous behaviour after the release if people prefer, but seems sensible to let Peter see everything green tomorrow. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Sun Jan 19 07:09:53 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:09:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB1139.70503@it.ox.ac.uk> <001e88e9-9831-43c0-93fb-e4901634d3b4@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4C1A2119-CA98-44EE-B490-4483F59AA676@edirom.de> Am 19.01.2014 um 11:47 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz: >>> ** I do not find a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find >>> is the TEI svn subtree ?P5? at >>> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple >>> ?svn up? on that directory enough? >> >> That seems to work, I just tried it. But can someone >> (Sebastian/Martin?) remind me what the local copy of SVN is used >> for other than the location the install scripts? (it is in >> ~/private/P5/Utilities/) > thats it, we just need to make sure that one script is the latest. its not > likely to change much, so this step almost always does nothing new. I think that?s an information which should be added to tcw22.xml as well?! Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140119/741c300d/attachment.bin From stadler at edirom.de Sun Jan 19 07:52:04 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:52:04 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> Am 19.01.2014 um 00:27 schrieb Martin Holmes: >> ** I do not find >> a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find is the TEI svn subtree >> ?P5? at /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple >> ?svn up? on that directory enough? * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think >> the hostname case switch must be adjusted > > This looks like a major change from the original server setup. When you > log in as tei, where do you find yourself? (pwd) /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org >> Some proposed changes to tcw22.xml so far: * "What you will need >> before you start?, item 2 (Shell access on the TEI SourceForge >> project) I propose to join this item with with 3 and 7 (well, not in >> one item but to have these in a sequence) and to add a line to the >> last one (or even a new item): Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh >> sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should >> *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a >> restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * > > Is "tei" a user on SourceForge? I didn't think so. I thought you had to > use your own SourceForge credentials there, hence the instruction to set > up ssh access. Admittedly I just copied the "sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net" from the script tei-install.sh and do not know what this comma actually does. The relevant line reads: ${ECHO} rsync -e ssh ${pname}-${version}.zip ${SFUSER},tei at frs.sourceforge.net:/home/frs/project/t/te/tei/${SFNAME}/${pname}-${version}.zip Anyway I just tested 'ssh stadlerpeter at frs.sourceforge.net? from the TEI server and it works as well (without prompting for a password). > >> "Step-by-step instructions?, item 1 ("Ensure that >> P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml has been written?). The next line >> declares this to be an uncommon procedure since the TEI Council chair >> should have already create that file. > > You should definitely look at that file one last time and make sure it's > OK. At least twice in the last few years the release process has had to > be repeated because of typos or omissions in that file. :-) Yes, you are right ? and I will do so three times ;-) >> So, it seems to me the actual >> issue for the release technician is to simply remove the ?beta? from >> the version number which can easily be forgotten when you are not >> looking closely at the following paragraph. > > That seems correct in the instructions to me. It has its own complete step: > > > Edit the P5/VERSION file to the correct number > This file consists only of the bare version number, followed by "alpha" > or "beta": > 2.8.2beta > For the release process, you need to remove the letters from the end, > leaving a pure version number: > 2.8.2 > This changes the release from beta (or possibly alpha) to the actual > release version number. After the release process has been completed, > the number should be incremented appropriately, and "alpha" added to the > end of it: > 2.8.3alpha > signifying that the versions built subsequent to the release are now in > the alpha stage. > True. That one is clear. But I was thinking of the version number within P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml >> I propose to change the >> heading to "remove ?beta? from P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml >> version number? and emphasize this procedure in the first >> paragraph. > > If you think that's clearer, we can certainly do that. Well, now I think the main issue is to alter the version information in *two* places *and* to check P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml for errors and missing items. If that?s consensus than I think the structure of the check list should reflect this. >> The edge case of creating that file can be discussed >> subsequently. > > Rather than checking that it's there, the step should be to check that > it's correct and complete. Yes, you are right. Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140119/2049b0e5/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jan 19 13:56:32 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 10:56:32 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DC1FE0.90404@uvic.ca> I've been trying to figure out what actual changes should be made to tcw22 based on these discussions, and I've made a couple of changes, but I think what we have now is pretty much correct: Could those of you who know anything about this take a look? The only remaining points of disagreement seem to be: - In "What you will need before you start", the original instructions, step 7, suggest that you must copy the tei user's ssh key to the SF server so that when logged in to tei-c as tei, you can upload the release to the SourceForge server (as your sf user). Sebastian has suggested that the key setup is not necessary, and that you can simply provide your SF credentials when prompted. Is this true for regular users, or is it only true for admins on the SF site (such as Sebastian or me)? - Peter proposes below that item 2 (turn on shell access on SF) should be combined with items 3 and 7. I don't actually agree with this, because item 2 needs to be done by one of the SF admins, so you have to wait for him/her to complete it before you can do item 7; while item 3 requires action by the tei-c sysadmin. Therefore I haven't changed those steps so far, but I'm happy to do so if people do think they should be treated as a single step. - Peter suggests adding this: Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * I think that should be added as the final step in "What you will need...". Does everyone agree? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-19 04:52 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > > Am 19.01.2014 um 00:27 schrieb Martin Holmes: >>> ** I do not find >>> a bin directory and svnUp.sh. What I do find is the TEI svn subtree >>> ?P5? at /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/private/P5. Question 2: Is a simple >>> ?svn up? on that directory enough? * tei-database-rebuild.sh: I think >>> the hostname case switch must be adjusted >> >> This looks like a major change from the original server setup. When you >> log in as tei, where do you find yourself? (pwd) > /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org > >>> Some proposed changes to tcw22.xml so far: * "What you will need >>> before you start?, item 2 (Shell access on the TEI SourceForge >>> project) I propose to join this item with with 3 and 7 (well, not in >>> one item but to have these in a sequence) and to add a line to the >>> last one (or even a new item): Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh >>> sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should >>> *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a >>> restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * >> >> Is "tei" a user on SourceForge? I didn't think so. I thought you had to >> use your own SourceForge credentials there, hence the instruction to set >> up ssh access. > Admittedly I just copied the "sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net" from the script tei-install.sh and do not know what this comma actually does. The relevant line reads: > ${ECHO} rsync -e ssh ${pname}-${version}.zip ${SFUSER},tei at frs.sourceforge.net:/home/frs/project/t/te/tei/${SFNAME}/${pname}-${version}.zip > > Anyway I just tested 'ssh stadlerpeter at frs.sourceforge.net? from the TEI server and it works as well (without prompting for a password). > >> >>> "Step-by-step instructions?, item 1 ("Ensure that >>> P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml has been written?). The next line >>> declares this to be an uncommon procedure since the TEI Council chair >>> should have already create that file. >> >> You should definitely look at that file one last time and make sure it's >> OK. At least twice in the last few years the release process has had to >> be repeated because of typos or omissions in that file. :-) > Yes, you are right ? and I will do so three times ;-) > >>> So, it seems to me the actual >>> issue for the release technician is to simply remove the ?beta? from >>> the version number which can easily be forgotten when you are not >>> looking closely at the following paragraph. >> >> That seems correct in the instructions to me. It has its own complete step: >> >> >> Edit the P5/VERSION file to the correct number >> This file consists only of the bare version number, followed by "alpha" >> or "beta": >> 2.8.2beta >> For the release process, you need to remove the letters from the end, >> leaving a pure version number: >> 2.8.2 >> This changes the release from beta (or possibly alpha) to the actual >> release version number. After the release process has been completed, >> the number should be incremented appropriately, and "alpha" added to the >> end of it: >> 2.8.3alpha >> signifying that the versions built subsequent to the release are now in >> the alpha stage. >> > True. That one is clear. > But I was thinking of the version number within P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-2.6.0.xml > >>> I propose to change the >>> heading to "remove ?beta? from P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml >>> version number? and emphasize this procedure in the first >>> paragraph. >> >> If you think that's clearer, we can certainly do that. > Well, now I think the main issue is to alter the version information in *two* places *and* to check P5/ReleaseNotes/readme-X.X.X.xml for errors and missing items. If that?s consensus than I think the structure of the check list should reflect this. > >>> The edge case of creating that file can be discussed >>> subsequently. >> >> Rather than checking that it's there, the step should be to check that >> it's correct and complete. > Yes, you are right. > > Best > Peter > > > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 19 16:10:18 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:10:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DC1FE0.90404@uvic.ca> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> <52DC1FE0.90404@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52DC3F3A.4060206@it.ox.ac.uk> On 19/01/14 18:56, Martin Holmes wrote: > - In "What you will need before you start", the original instructions, > step 7, suggest that you must copy the tei user's ssh key to the SF > server so that when logged in to tei-c as tei, you can upload the > release to the SourceForge server (as your sf user). Sebastian has > suggested that the key setup is not necessary, and that you can simply > provide your SF credentials when prompted. Is this true for regular > users, or is it only true for admins on the SF site (such as Sebastian > or me)? I honestly don't know -- maybe we should test it after the release. Another option, of course, is for us to create a 'tei' user on SF as well who did the releases and whose key had already been copied. But generally I believe people find such accounts a bad idea from security. > > - Peter proposes below that item 2 (turn on shell access on SF) should > be combined with items 3 and 7. I don't actually agree Keepwith this, > because item 2 needs to be done by one of the SF admins, so you have to > wait for him/her to complete it before you can do item 7; while item 3 > requires action by the tei-c sysadmin. Therefore I haven't changed those > steps so far, but I'm happy to do so if people do think they should be > treated as a single step. Keep those the same for now I think. > - Peter suggests adding this: > > Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh > sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should > *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a > restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * > > I think that should be added as the final step in "What you will > need...". Does everyone agree? I think saying that this is one way to test it is good. I've always had difficulty with SF shell sessions but it is probably just me. ;-) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jan 19 16:40:51 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:40:51 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DC3F3A.4060206@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> <52DC1FE0.90404@uvic.ca> <52DC3F3A.4060206@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52DC4663.7040607@uvic.ca> OK, I've made some final changes. I also noticed that TCW22 includes the port 8080 URL for the Oxford Jenkins server: http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/ but I think this one is more current, isn't it? http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ Should I change that, or does it make no difference? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-19 01:10 PM, James Cummings wrote: > On 19/01/14 18:56, Martin Holmes wrote: >> - In "What you will need before you start", the original instructions, >> step 7, suggest that you must copy the tei user's ssh key to the SF >> server so that when logged in to tei-c as tei, you can upload the >> release to the SourceForge server (as your sf user). Sebastian has >> suggested that the key setup is not necessary, and that you can simply >> provide your SF credentials when prompted. Is this true for regular >> users, or is it only true for admins on the SF site (such as Sebastian >> or me)? > > I honestly don't know -- maybe we should test it after the > release. Another option, of course, is for us to create a 'tei' > user on SF as well who did the releases and whose key had already > been copied. But generally I believe people find such accounts a > bad idea from security. > >> >> - Peter proposes below that item 2 (turn on shell access on SF) should >> be combined with items 3 and 7. I don't actually agree Keepwith this, >> because item 2 needs to be done by one of the SF admins, so you have to >> wait for him/her to complete it before you can do item 7; while item 3 >> requires action by the tei-c sysadmin. Therefore I haven't changed those >> steps so far, but I'm happy to do so if people do think they should be >> treated as a single step. > > Keep those the same for now I think. > >> - Peter suggests adding this: >> >> Test it by trying to log in via ?ssh >> sfuser,tei at frs.sourceforge.net? *from* the tei server. That should >> *not* prompt for a password while echoing ?Welcome! This is a >> restricted Shell Account. You can only copy files to/from here.? * >> >> I think that should be added as the final step in "What you will >> need...". Does everyone agree? > > I think saying that this is one way to test it is good. I've > always had difficulty with SF shell sessions but it is probably > just me. ;-) > > -James > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 19 16:59:31 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:59:31 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] gearing up for release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DC4663.7040607@uvic.ca> References: <56223A09-F97B-4596-A38B-FC59A4EB7A84@edirom.de> <52DB0DD8.30804@uvic.ca> <8BF4130F-4472-4B4D-97A0-B0420BEEC939@edirom.de> <52DC1FE0.90404@uvic.ca> <52DC3F3A.4060206@it.ox.ac.uk> <52DC4663.7040607@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A874829@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 19 Jan 2014, at 21:40, Martin Holmes wrote: > OK, I've made some final changes. I also noticed that TCW22 includes the > port 8080 URL for the Oxford Jenkins server: > > http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/ > > but I think this one is more current, isn't it? > > http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/jenkins/ > > Should I change that, or does it make no difference? the latter is a flaky redirect for the former, so keep with bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080 for now. We?ll probably decommission that whole thing, and tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, later this year (once we have a Jenkins on tei-c.org), and re-evaluate what we want running at Oxford. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Mon Jan 20 03:00:18 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 09:00:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0: repo freeze Message-ID: <87C6E599-78F8-448A-930F-800D01B7DE1C@edirom.de> Dear all, this is to remind you to refrain from any commits to the TEI svn repo until I?m finished with creating the release and report back to this list. Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140120/763d2044/attachment.bin From stadler at edirom.de Mon Jan 20 11:27:32 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 17:27:32 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0: progress report Message-ID: Dear all, as always(?!), we faced some problems and are still in the process of preparing the release. I guess, you are curious in what went wrong so far ;-) 1. The built of the TEI Guidelines resulted in some warnings (http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastBuild/parsed_console/) 2. Sebastian assured me to move on, so I installed the TEI package on the TEI server and copied the archive to Sourceforge 3. That broke Roma (some broken symlinks, fixed by now) 4. The HTML version of the Guidelines shows some 'interesting? links: Have a look at the language links at e.g. http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/P5/2.6.0/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-model.frontPart.drama.html (while other links do work) 5. So, while I think we fixed this issue, we still have problems getting the Stylesheets to build ? So much for now Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140120/d26c8ca2/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 20 15:07:09 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:07:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0: progress report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A879FB3@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 20 Jan 2014, at 16:27, Peter Stadler wrote: > > 1. The built of the TEI Guidelines resulted in some warnings (http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastBuild/parsed_console/) this is an interesting one. the software which makes Debian packages is upset because ?2.6.0beta? is _later_ than 2.6.0, so it thinks we have reverted a version. I don?t understand its thinking well enough to know how to resolve this. > 3. That broke Roma (some broken symlinks, fixed by now) A truly hideous problem. The link between the Vault copies of versions of the Guidelines and the system-wide directories which Roma (actually OxGarage) reads (eg /usr/share/xml/tei/stylesheet/) had got itself in a twist when the new server was built, so the install of 2.6.0 promptly lost all the XSL stylesheets. I think its is a rare and exotic happening, and probably doesn?t need an extra check by releasers. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jan 20 15:16:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 12:16:58 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0: progress report In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A879FB3@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A879FB3@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52DD843A.6060209@uvic.ca> On 14-01-20 12:07 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 20 Jan 2014, at 16:27, Peter Stadler wrote: > >> >> 1. The built of the TEI Guidelines resulted in some warnings (http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastBuild/parsed_console/) > > this is an interesting one. the software which makes Debian packages is upset because ?2.6.0beta? is > _later_ than 2.6.0, so it thinks we have reverted a version. I don?t understand its thinking well enough to know how to > resolve this. We should just suppress this with hudson-log-parse-rules. It's not really relevant. It happens only once anyway. Cheers, Martin > >> 3. That broke Roma (some broken symlinks, fixed by now) > > A truly hideous problem. The link between the Vault copies of versions of the > Guidelines and the system-wide directories which Roma (actually OxGarage) reads > (eg /usr/share/xml/tei/stylesheet/) had got itself in a twist when the new > server was built, so the install of 2.6.0 promptly lost all the XSL stylesheets. > > I think its is a rare and exotic happening, and probably doesn?t need an extra check > by releasers. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From stadler at edirom.de Mon Jan 20 18:09:52 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 00:09:52 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 Message-ID: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> Dear all, James already sent the message to TEI-L announcing the release. If you?ve read it, forget about the ?minor problems? which indeed have been giant dragons! Nonetheless we did it and I wanted to thank Martin, Sebastian and James personally for rescuing me from these beasts. My final duty before resigning from my 'special status? is to invite you to resume commiting to the TEI Sourceforge repository! I?ll go for a drink now ;-) Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/d263cceb/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jan 20 18:15:54 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 15:15:54 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> Have a few beers on my behalf! I don't drink at this time of year. :-( On 14-01-20 03:09 PM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > James already sent the message to TEI-L announcing the release. > If you?ve read it, forget about the ?minor problems? which indeed have been giant dragons! Nonetheless we did it and I wanted to thank Martin, Sebastian and James personally for rescuing me from these beasts. > > My final duty before resigning from my 'special status? is to invite you to resume commiting to the TEI Sourceforge repository! > I?ll go for a drink now ;-) > > Best > Peter > > > From s.bauman at neu.edu Mon Jan 20 20:49:50 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:49:50 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Thank you and congrats to Peter, and thanks to Sebastian, Martin, and James. From s.bauman at neu.edu Mon Jan 20 20:52:22 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 20:52:22 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21213.53974.282818.571962@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> [Sorry -- pressed "send" (C-c C-c) when I was just trying to pop point and mark (C-x C-x).] Thank you and congrats to Peter, and thanks to Sebastian, Martin, and James. On very quick check of a few pages, it looks just fine. (HTML online is all I was looking at.) From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 03:15:33 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:15:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 03:40:01 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:40:01 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though Best Peter Am 21.01.2014 um 09:15 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/2fa58669/attachment.bin From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 03:49:23 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:49:23 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> Additionally, yet missing is the update to the table of previous releases at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/index.xml#previous. Who is able and willing to do that? Best, Peter Am 21.01.2014 um 09:40 schrieb Peter Stadler : > I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! > If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though > > Best > Peter > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:15 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/6da89e56/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 03:50:05 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:50:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 21 Jan 2014, at 08:40, Peter Stadler wrote: > I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! > If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though > you have to check out https://code.google.com/p/oxygen-tei, then you should just be able to run the script. It uploads to Sourceforge. if you need extra rights, I hope Martin, James and Syd can do this, but may need me though as I have extra Power there ? the god of hell fire From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 04:11:03 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:11:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> , <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> Message-ID: <56irp8yym0ou69uh9c6sbbpe.1390295453631@email.android.com> I always do that with the estimate of when the next release will be. (Suggestions?) But putting it in the tcw22 is a good idea. JamesC -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Peter Stadler Date:2014/01/21 08:49 (GMT+00:00) To: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 Additionally, yet missing is the update to the table of previous releases at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/index.xml#previous. Who is able and willing to do that? Best, Peter Am 21.01.2014 um 09:40 schrieb Peter Stadler : > I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! > If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though > > Best > Peter > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:15 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 04:14:27 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:14:27 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Did it. (first with a wrong Stylesheet version, grr) Second version looks good: https://sourceforge.net/projects/tei/files/tei-oxygen/ Haven?t tested, can anyone do that, please? Best Peter Am 21.01.2014 um 09:50 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > > On 21 Jan 2014, at 08:40, Peter Stadler wrote: > >> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >> > you have to check out https://code.google.com/p/oxygen-tei, then > you should just be able to run the script. It uploads to Sourceforge. > > if you need extra rights, I hope Martin, James and Syd can do this, but may need me > though as I have extra Power there > > ? > the god of hell fire -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/1693c51c/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 04:26:03 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 09:26:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:14, Peter Stadler wrote: > Did it. > (first with a wrong Stylesheet version, grr) > Second version looks good: https://sourceforge.net/projects/tei/files/tei-oxygen/ > Haven?t tested, can anyone do that, please? i just created and edited /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen (which we haven?t automated yet, NB), so I?d expect peoples oxygens to start noticing. as Martin will vociferously recall, we haven?t got a decent way of testing this other than by going live, i think if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 04:30:02 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:30:02 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/96497d1c/attachment.bin From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Jan 21 05:22:25 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:22:25 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi All, first of all congrats to Peter for the great work :-) I could not follow the release and give any help since I've been under a terrible flu attack. I updated my Oxy with the new package to test it I'll let you know if something is wrong with it. Fabio 2014/1/21 Peter Stadler : > Did it. > (first with a wrong Stylesheet version, grr) > Second version looks good: https://sourceforge.net/projects/tei/files/tei-oxygen/ > Haven?t tested, can anyone do that, please? > > Best > Peter > > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:50 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> >> On 21 Jan 2014, at 08:40, Peter Stadler wrote: >> >>> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >>> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >>> >> you have to check out https://code.google.com/p/oxygen-tei, then >> you should just be able to run the script. It uploads to Sourceforge. >> >> if you need extra rights, I hope Martin, James and Syd can do this, but may need me >> though as I have extra Power there >> >> ? >> the god of hell fire > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 05:36:08 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:36:08 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 minutes Message-ID: <14D6410B-A8C5-4860-AB44-E3A95F60DD80@edirom.de> Dear all, a brief write-up at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kM0mDW26MWFRzKU14etzqlGNSOd1t5gy4mqa6Uyv-h0/edit?usp=sharing Martin, James, Sebastion, please feel free to correct or add to the document. Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/c788b87a/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 05:53:52 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 10:53:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: > > Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen > > Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) > [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen 1.3.12 14.2+ framework TEI Technical Council TEI P5 ?. you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Jan 21 06:25:58 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 12:25:58 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I found only a small stangeness in tei oxygen, in the list of available templates in the framework appears also the entries for "teilite.doc" and "teitite.doc". In version 15.0 is still present the error "Couldn't load custom Extensions Bundle from class: ro.sync.ecss.extensions.tei.TEIP5ExtensionsBundle because: Could not load ro.sync.ecss.extensions.tei.TEIP5ExtensionsBundle because could not found ro/sync/ecss/extensions/api/link/IDTypeRecognizer" I think it would be nice, a soon as Sebastian ha s time, to update the debian ox?ygene package withe version 15.1 Fabio 2014/1/21 Fabio Ciotti : > Hi All, > > first of all congrats to Peter for the great work :-) > > I could not follow the release and give any help since I've been under > a terrible flu attack. I updated my Oxy with the new package to test > it I'll let you know if something is wrong with it. > > Fabio > > 2014/1/21 Peter Stadler : >> Did it. >> (first with a wrong Stylesheet version, grr) >> Second version looks good: https://sourceforge.net/projects/tei/files/tei-oxygen/ >> Haven?t tested, can anyone do that, please? >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> >> Am 21.01.2014 um 09:50 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> >>> On 21 Jan 2014, at 08:40, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> >>>> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >>>> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >>>> >>> you have to check out https://code.google.com/p/oxygen-tei, then >>> you should just be able to run the script. It uploads to Sourceforge. >>> >>> if you need extra rights, I hope Martin, James and Syd can do this, but may need me >>> though as I have extra Power there >>> >>> ? >>> the god of hell fire >> >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From philomousos at gmail.com Tue Jan 21 07:15:03 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 07:15:03 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <46D04A26-C209-4C5E-AD41-C2470378D48D@gmail.com> Works for me. Or at least, the default TEI schema is now 2.6.0, so that part works :-) Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Jan 21, 2014, at 4:14 , Peter Stadler wrote: > Did it. > (first with a wrong Stylesheet version, grr) > Second version looks good: https://sourceforge.net/projects/tei/files/tei-oxygen/ > Haven?t tested, can anyone do that, please? > > Best > Peter > > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:50 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> >> On 21 Jan 2014, at 08:40, Peter Stadler wrote: >> >>> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >>> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >>> >> you have to check out https://code.google.com/p/oxygen-tei, then >> you should just be able to run the script. It uploads to Sourceforge. >> >> if you need extra rights, I hope Martin, James and Syd can do this, but may need me >> though as I have extra Power there >> >> ? >> the god of hell fire > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 08:29:04 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:29:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52DE7620.8060304@it.ox.ac.uk> On 21/01/14 11:25, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > I found only a small stangeness in tei oxygen, in the list of > available templates in the framework appears also the entries for > "teilite.doc" and "teitite.doc". I can confirm that I have this as well and if I load them I get the TEI XML version of lite and tite. > In version 15.0 is still present the error > "Couldn't load custom Extensions Bundle from class: > ro.sync.ecss.extensions.tei.TEIP5ExtensionsBundle because: Could not > load ro.sync.ecss.extensions.tei.TEIP5ExtensionsBundle because could > not found ro/sync/ecss/extensions/api/link/IDTypeRecognizer" > > I think it would be nice, a soon as Sebastian ha s time, to update the > debian ox?ygene package withe version 15.1 Is that the problem. I don't remember getting this error before. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 21 08:41:05 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 05:41:05 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DE78F1.7010008@uvic.ca> I've done that update. I'll add the step to TCW22. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-21 12:49 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Additionally, yet missing is the update to the table of previous releases at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/index.xml#previous. > Who is able and willing to do that? > > Best, > Peter > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:40 schrieb Peter Stadler : > >> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> Am 21.01.2014 um 09:15 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 21 08:45:14 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 05:45:14 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release 2.6.0 In-Reply-To: <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3DBFE2C8-30FB-43F9-85AA-866DB3D37BB2@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52DE79EA.6080202@uvic.ca> OK, that's added to TCW22 as step 13. On 14-01-21 12:49 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Additionally, yet missing is the update to the table of previous releases at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/index.xml#previous. > Who is able and willing to do that? > > Best, > Peter > > Am 21.01.2014 um 09:40 schrieb Peter Stadler : > >> I silently skipped that step since I?ve got no commit powers to the Google Code repo. I should?ve mentioned that earlier, sorry! >> If you grant me permissions, I can go for it though >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> Am 21.01.2014 um 09:15 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> does anyone feel strong to make the release for oXygen today? its the final step in the process. >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > From stadler at edirom.de Tue Jan 21 10:16:44 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 16:16:44 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <034716CE-3023-4F45-9B54-2ADC73779293@edirom.de> ok, so this step should be added to TCW22, as well. * clone /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/x.x.x/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen from an older version * adjust the package location at * increment ? How to increment? (I see you went from 1.2.12 to 1.3.12?) Best Peter Am 21.01.2014 um 11:53 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > > On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: > >> >> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen >> >> Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) >> > > [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension/extensions.xsd"> > > > 1.3.12 > 14.2+ > framework > TEI Technical Council > TEI P5 > ?. > > > > you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140121/93983357/attachment-0001.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 21 11:34:41 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:34:41 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52DEA1A1.9040808@uvic.ca> I need to clarify this so that I can put it into TCW22: On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: - go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/ - nano updateSite.oxygen - Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. - Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for the zip. Is that right? If so: 1. How do you know the new version number for oxygen-tei? 2. Shouldn't that download link be: i.e. the generic download, rather than a specific mirror that might not be up at a particular time? (I tested the above link with wget and it works.) Cheers, Martin On 14-01-21 02:53 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: > >> >> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen >> >> Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) >> > > [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension/extensions.xsd"> > > > 1.3.12 > 14.2+ > framework > TEI Technical Council > TEI P5 > ?. > > > > you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 21 11:47:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 08:47:46 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52DEA1A1.9040808@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52DEA1A1.9040808@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52DEA4B2.8070707@uvic.ca> Sorry, just saw Peter's email: the steps should be: On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: 1. go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/ 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the new release you just made). 3. nano y.y.y/updateSite.oxygen 4. Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. 5. Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for the zip. Questions: 1. How do you know the new version number for oxygen-tei? 2. Shouldn't that download link be: i.e. the generic download, rather than a specific mirror that might not be up at a particular time? (I tested the above link with wget and it works.) Cheers, Martin On 14-01-21 08:34 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: > I need to clarify this so that I can put it into TCW22: > > On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: > > - go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/ > > - nano updateSite.oxygen > > - Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. > > - Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for > the zip. > > Is that right? If so: > > 1. How do you know the new version number for oxygen-tei? > > 2. Shouldn't that download link be: > > > > > i.e. the generic download, rather than a specific mirror that might > not be up at a particular time? (I tested the above link with wget and > it works.) > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-21 02:53 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >>> >>>> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen >>> >>> Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) >>> >> >> [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen >> >> > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension/extensions.xsd"> >> >> >> 1.3.12 >> 14.2+ >> framework >> TEI Technical Council >> TEI P5 >> ?. >> >> >> >> you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 14:51:21 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 19:51:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52DEA4B2.8070707@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52DEA1A1.9040808@uvic.ca> <52DEA4B2.8070707@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87EDA9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 21 Jan 2014, at 16:47, Martin Holmes wrote: > Questions: > > 1. How do you know the new version number for oxygen-tei? > you make it up > 2. Shouldn't that download link be: > > > > > i.e. the generic download, rather than a specific mirror that might > not be up at a particular time? yes, probably. i had problems last time and stuck in that other URL, but feel free to change. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Jan 22 13:18:36 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 13:18:36 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings Message-ID: Accidentally sent this from the wrong address (so don?t know if it got through). I?ve spoken to some of the folks here in the library at Duke, and there?s definite interest in our hosting a Council meeting. Logistics-wise, it may be easier to plan for the Fall meeting here than Spring and there are some events going on in November it might be nice to have some (or even all) of you participate in if we could work out the timing. That might let me tap into some other funding sources too? Let me know what you all think. We do need to consider dates for the Spring F2F. My calendar is already filling up through May/June. Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Jan 22 14:24:11 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 11:24:11 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> I'm happy to have spring in the UK and fall at Duke if it works out that way. If we're going to do presentations and workshops, it helps to have a longer lead time. My calendar is also filling up. The spring meeting is usually April, and I prefer that. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-22 10:18 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Accidentally sent this from the wrong address (so don?t know if it got through). > > I?ve spoken to some of the folks here in the library at Duke, and there?s definite interest in our hosting a Council meeting. Logistics-wise, it may be easier to plan for the Fall meeting here than Spring and there are some events going on in November it might be nice to have some (or even all) of you participate in if we could work out the timing. That might let me tap into some other funding sources too? > > Let me know what you all think. > > We do need to consider dates for the Spring F2F. My calendar is already filling up through May/June. > > Hugh > > /** > * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D > * hugh.cayless at duke.edu > * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) > * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ > **/ > > From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Wed Jan 22 15:32:21 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:32:21 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> I did look at the document Becky prepared when arranging the meeting here in Ann Arbor, and it all looks doable. Though obviously would require at least some lead time to arrange rooms, etc. I've no objection to the other choices, but thought I should confirm that Ann Arbor is almost certainly a live option. (If we make it Oxford in April, then I'd love to make it the second week, so I can combine it with the annual TATHS meeting in Shropshire.) pfs On Wed, Jan 22, 2014, at 14:24, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm happy to have spring in the UK and fall at Duke if it works out that > way. If we're going to do presentations and workshops, it helps to have > a longer lead time. > > My calendar is also filling up. The spring meeting is usually April, and > I prefer that. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-22 10:18 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > > Accidentally sent this from the wrong address (so don?t know if it got through). > > > > I?ve spoken to some of the folks here in the library at Duke, and there?s definite interest in our hosting a Council meeting. Logistics-wise, it may be easier to plan for the Fall meeting here than Spring and there are some events going on in November it might be nice to have some (or even all) of you participate in if we could work out the timing. That might let me tap into some other funding sources too? > > > > Let me know what you all think. > > > > We do need to consider dates for the Spring F2F. My calendar is already filling up through May/June. > > > > Hugh > > > > /** > > * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D > > * hugh.cayless at duke.edu > > * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) > > * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ > > **/ > > > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 23 07:00:08 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:00:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> Is there any good reason why the oxygen version number should not be the same as the TEI P5 version number current at the time of its release ? at least in part? On 21/01/14 10:53, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: > >> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen >> Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) >> > [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen > > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" > xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension/extensions.xsd"> > > > 1.3.12 > 14.2+ > framework > TEI Technical Council > TEI P5 > ?. > > > > you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 23 07:13:15 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 13:13:15 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release process Message-ID: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> Dear all, during the release process of 2.6.0 we had to roll back to release 2.5.0 at some stage because we found some broken links in the HTML version of the Guidelines. Call me conservative, but I think it might be a good idea to 1. upload the new Guidelines to tei-c.org 2. Check the release 3. AND THEN symlink ?current? to point at the new release We could insert a simple ?read -p? after line 60 in tei-install.sh or even split the script in two (three) * upload2tei-c * make-current * upload2sf Comments? Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140123/3254d6e6/attachment-0001.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 08:48:38 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 05:48:38 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> On 14-01-23 04:00 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > Is there any good reason why the oxygen version number should not be the > same as the TEI P5 version number current at the time of its release ? > at least in part? I agree -- if we're making the number up, we might as well align it with P5. It may go out of sync of course if we need to make further releases of oxygen-tei, but those would presumably be point increments (i.e. 2.6 would remain intact). Shall I put that into TCW 22? I still haven't got the OK on my previous suggested revision. Any objections to this: On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: 1. go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/ 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the new release you just made). 3. nano y.y.y/updateSite.oxygen 4. Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. 5. Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for the zip: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/tei/tei-oxygen/teioxygen-2.6.0-7.9.0.zip Cheers, Martin > On 21/01/14 10:53, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 21 Jan 2014, at 09:30, Peter Stadler wrote: >> >>> Am 21.01.2014 um 10:26 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >>> >>>> if you find a problem, you have to update version number in updateSite.oxygen >>> Me not understand? (Maybe cose I do not use these packages?) >>> >> [tei at s16382816 tmp]$ cat /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/2.6.0/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen >> >> > xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" >> xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension http://www.oxygenxml.com/ns/extension/extensions.xsd"> >> >> >> 1.3.12 >> 14.2+ >> framework >> TEI Technical Council >> TEI P5 >> ?. >> >> >> >> you?d update 1.3.12 if the zip file changes >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 08:51:09 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 05:51:09 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release process In-Reply-To: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> References: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52E11E4D.9050703@uvic.ca> We have been working on an automated link-checking system to run (manually) as a Jenkins job prior to release. That will be up and running in the next few days. Meanwhile, using results from testing, I've fixed about 70 broken links in the P5 source. Nevertheless, I think you're idea is a good one -- this time it was broken links, but next time it will be something else... Cheers, Martin On 14-01-23 04:13 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > during the release process of 2.6.0 we had to roll back to release 2.5.0 at some stage because we found some broken links in the HTML version of the Guidelines. Call me conservative, but I think it might be a good idea to > 1. upload the new Guidelines to tei-c.org > 2. Check the release > 3. AND THEN symlink ?current? to point at the new release > > We could insert a simple ?read -p? after line 60 in tei-install.sh or even split the script in two (three) > * upload2tei-c > * make-current > * upload2sf > > Comments? > Peter > > > > From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 23 08:57:12 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:57:12 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> Just a minor remark: I would skip item 3 since different people use different editors. 4 and 5 say it all. Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : > I still haven't got the OK on my previous suggested revision. Any > objections to this: > > On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: > > 1. go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/ > > 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x > is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the > new release you just made). > > 3. nano y.y.y/updateSite.oxygen > > 4. Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. > > 5. Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for > the zip: > http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/tei/tei-oxygen/teioxygen-2.6.0-7.9.0.zip -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140123/f92abd2f/attachment.bin From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 23 09:01:22 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 15:01:22 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : > 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x > is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the > new release you just made). The paths should be cp x.x.x/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen y.y.y/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140123/25a4b524/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 23 09:44:33 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 14:44:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 23 Jan 2014, at 12:00, Lou Burnard wrote: > Is there any good reason why the oxygen version number should not be the > same as the TEI P5 version number current at the time of its release ? > at least in part? > it can?t be a 1:1 correspondence, because it also depends on stylesheets releases and the number has be x.y.z, exactly, according to oxygen. transformation algorithms welcome -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 11:27:52 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:27:52 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> Hi there, I've updated TCW 22. Could everyone who knows anything about this please read through Step 14 here: and make sure I've got it all right? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-23 05:57 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Just a minor remark: > I would skip item 3 since different people use different editors. 4 and 5 say it all. > > Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : > >> I still haven't got the OK on my previous suggested revision. Any >> objections to this: >> >> On tei-c.org, logged in as tei: >> >> 1. go to /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/ >> >> 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x >> is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the >> new release you just made). >> >> 3. nano y.y.y/updateSite.oxygen >> >> 4. Change xt:version to match the new version number of the plugin. >> >> 5. Change xt:location to point to the SourceForge download location for >> the zip: >> http://downloads.sourceforge.net/project/tei/tei-oxygen/teioxygen-2.6.0-7.9.0.zip > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 11:30:36 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:30:36 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52E143AC.4090500@uvic.ca> Thanks Peter -- fixed in TCW 22. On 14-01-23 06:01 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > > Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : > >> 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x >> is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the >> new release you just made). > The paths should be > cp x.x.x/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen y.y.y/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 11:33:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:33:58 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release process In-Reply-To: <52E11E4D.9050703@uvic.ca> References: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> <52E11E4D.9050703@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52E14476.5010408@uvic.ca> ???you're idea is a good one??? sed "s/you're/your/" On 14-01-23 05:51 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: > We have been working on an automated link-checking system to run > (manually) as a Jenkins job prior to release. That will be up and > running in the next few days. Meanwhile, using results from testing, > I've fixed about 70 broken links in the P5 source. > > Nevertheless, I think you're idea is a good one -- this time it was > broken links, but next time it will be something else... > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-23 04:13 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> during the release process of 2.6.0 we had to roll back to release 2.5.0 at some stage because we found some broken links in the HTML version of the Guidelines. Call me conservative, but I think it might be a good idea to >> 1. upload the new Guidelines to tei-c.org >> 2. Check the release >> 3. AND THEN symlink ?current? to point at the new release >> >> We could insert a simple ?read -p? after line 60 in tei-install.sh or even split the script in two (three) >> * upload2tei-c >> * make-current >> * upload2sf >> >> Comments? >> Peter >> >> >> >> From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jan 23 11:41:49 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 17:41:49 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E143AC.4090500@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <52E143AC.4090500@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <2AE656AB-1DB5-4E3C-8182-8FFD25AE79DE@edirom.de> Have you seen my write-up at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kM0mDW26MWFRzKU14etzqlGNSOd1t5gy4mqa6Uyv-h0/edit?usp=sharing Last item is about the oxygen packages update ? Best Peter Am 23.01.2014 um 17:30 schrieb Martin Holmes : > Thanks Peter -- fixed in TCW 22. > > On 14-01-23 06:01 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >> >> Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : >> >>> 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x >>> is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the >>> new release you just made). >> The paths should be >> cp x.x.x/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen y.y.y/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140123/5861b7e0/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 11:51:07 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 08:51:07 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <2AE656AB-1DB5-4E3C-8182-8FFD25AE79DE@edirom.de> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <52E143AC.4090500@uvic.ca> <2AE656AB-1DB5-4E3C-8182-8FFD25AE79DE@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52E1487B.2010900@uvic.ca> HI Peter, Could you give martindholmes at gmail.com write permissions on that document? I'd like to annotate it as we work through it. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-23 08:41 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Have you seen my write-up at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kM0mDW26MWFRzKU14etzqlGNSOd1t5gy4mqa6Uyv-h0/edit?usp=sharing > > Last item is about the oxygen packages update ? > > Best > Peter > > Am 23.01.2014 um 17:30 schrieb Martin Holmes : > >> Thanks Peter -- fixed in TCW 22. >> >> On 14-01-23 06:01 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> >>> Am 23.01.2014 um 14:48 schrieb Martin Holmes : >>> >>>> 2. cp x.x.x/updateOxygen.oxygen y.y.y/updateOxygen.oxygen (where x.x.x >>>> is the version number of the previous release, and y.y.y is that of the >>>> new release you just made). >>> The paths should be >>> cp x.x.x/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen y.y.y/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen >>> > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 23 12:08:39 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 17:08:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> i would comment a) the script :svnUp.sh? does not exist. just do ?svn up? b) the procedure for updating the oxygen thing is correct, but we should give priority to automating it -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 12:58:27 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 09:58:27 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E15843.1030903@uvic.ca> On 14-01-23 09:08 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > i would comment > a) the script :svnUp.sh? does not exist. just do ?svn up? Thanks -- fixed. > b) the procedure for updating the oxygen thing is correct, but we should > give priority to automating it Definitely. I don't actually understand how it works. How does oXygen know to look in the folder identified by the TEI version number? Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 23 13:32:29 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 18:32:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E15843.1030903@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E15843.1030903@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A888FEE@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 23 Jan 2014, at 17:58, Martin Holmes wrote: > > I don't actually understand how it works. How does oXygen know to look in the folder identified by the TEI version number? > the URL is consistently http://www.tei-c.org/release/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen, ?release? is symlinked to /usr/share/, and /usr/share/oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/oxygen oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/oxygen and in /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/ oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/current/oxygen bet you wished you hadn?t asked. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 23 13:59:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 10:59:59 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A888FEE@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E15843.1030903@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A888FEE@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E166AF.9060806@uvic.ca> On 14-01-23 10:32 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 23 Jan 2014, at 17:58, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> >> I don't actually understand how it works. How does oXygen know to look in the folder identified by the TEI version number? >> > the URL is consistently > http://www.tei-c.org/release/oxygen/updateSite.oxygen, > ?release? is symlinked to /usr/share/, > and /usr/share/oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/oxygen > oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/oxygen > and in /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/opencms_tomcat/lv1/local/source/tei-pkgs/files/usr/share/ > oxygen -> /var/www/vhosts/tei-c.org/projects/tei/web/Vault/P5/current/oxygen > > bet you wished you hadn?t asked. No, I'm glad I asked because now this is documented on TEI-Council and when it goes mysteriously wrong at some point in the future one of us might be able to figure out the problem. But holy #^$%. No wonder things go wrong. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 23 14:06:54 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:06:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update of oXygen-ready distribution In-Reply-To: <52E166AF.9060806@uvic.ca> References: <18B42A56-6BEC-4BB2-B213-A9307A4C224D@edirom.de> <52DDAE2A.8060300@uvic.ca> <21213.53822.561407.911668@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C552@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87C8D5@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87CCBC@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <677B292F-FF93-41E3-B78A-0F5FFF8B0A26@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A87D3C2@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E10448.7020303@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E11DB6.5090202@uvic.ca> <94607601-953F-411C-8536-CFC8A0169DCE@edirom.de> <52E14308.9090404@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8887E4@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E15843.1030903@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A888FEE@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52E166AF.9060806@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A8892B8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 23 Jan 2014, at 18:59, Martin Holmes wrote: > > No, I'm glad I asked because now this is documented on TEI-Council and when it goes mysteriously wrong at some point in the future one of us might be able to figure out the problem. > > But holy #^$%. No wonder things go wrong. trouble is that we built up things _ad hoc_ on the older server with symlinks, and then the whole precarious edifice was transferred to Germany without any analysis of how to simplify it (since the target was just getting things working). if anyone feels strong one of these days, its possible to (carefully) remove some of these layers of symlinking. That?s what James and I did on Monday, when we found that the precarious edifice had been damaged on transit and turned into something designed by Escher. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jan 24 00:25:22 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 21:25:22 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] release process In-Reply-To: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> References: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52E1F942.1000205@uvic.ca> We now have a link-checking tool on Jenkins: It gives output like this: It takes only about eleven minutes on my Jenkins to check the whole Guidelines tree; Sebastian's server is faster, so I expect it'll do better there. It's set up to be run manually when we think we're getting close to a release. I've not finished tweaking it yet. Any suggestions for improvements in the output are welcome. There are still one or two bad links left to tidy up... Cheers, Martin On 14-01-23 04:13 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > during the release process of 2.6.0 we had to roll back to release 2.5.0 at some stage because we found some broken links in the HTML version of the Guidelines. Call me conservative, but I think it might be a good idea to > 1. upload the new Guidelines to tei-c.org > 2. Check the release > 3. AND THEN symlink ?current? to point at the new release > > We could insert a simple ?read -p? after line 60 in tei-install.sh or even split the script in two (three) > * upload2tei-c > * make-current > * upload2sf > > Comments? > Peter > > > > From stadler at edirom.de Fri Jan 24 02:51:53 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 08:51:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] release process In-Reply-To: <52E1F942.1000205@uvic.ca> References: <08C1D577-54B3-4ACD-9748-42A32143DBE5@edirom.de> <52E1F942.1000205@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Splendid! Many thanks Peter Am 24.01.2014 um 06:25 schrieb Martin Holmes : > We now have a link-checking tool on Jenkins: > > > > It gives output like this: > > > > It takes only about eleven minutes on my Jenkins to check the whole > Guidelines tree; Sebastian's server is faster, so I expect it'll do > better there. It's set up to be run manually when we think we're getting > close to a release. > > I've not finished tweaking it yet. Any suggestions for improvements in > the output are welcome. > > There are still one or two bad links left to tidy up... > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-23 04:13 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> during the release process of 2.6.0 we had to roll back to release 2.5.0 at some stage because we found some broken links in the HTML version of the Guidelines. Call me conservative, but I think it might be a good idea to >> 1. upload the new Guidelines to tei-c.org >> 2. Check the release >> 3. AND THEN symlink ?current? to point at the new release >> >> We could insert a simple ?read -p? after line 60 in tei-install.sh or even split the script in two (three) >> * upload2tei-c >> * make-current >> * upload2sf >> >> Comments? >> Peter >> >> >> >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140124/2ceb3dd4/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jan 24 13:23:18 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 10:23:18 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] All green -- no more broken links Message-ID: <52E2AF96.70509@uvic.ca> I did some final fixes today, and the current Guidelines source has no bad links, as evidenced by the nice green ball on the link-checker job: There are a few warnings, which come from sites which have a robots.txt which denies robots access to the site; linkchecker honours this, and there's no configuration option to turn it off (not that we should. of course). Once in a while someone should check that handful of links manually (which I've done today). So the problem we had this time shouldn't happen next time. Next time it will be something different. Cheers, Martin From s.bauman at neu.edu Fri Jan 24 21:06:45 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 21:06:45 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I'd be quite happy with either Ann Arbor or Raleigh in either Spring or Fall. But I agree, we should start nailing dates and places down soon. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 25 07:48:06 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:48:06 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] All green -- no more broken links In-Reply-To: <52E2AF96.70509@uvic.ca> References: <52E2AF96.70509@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A88BDB6@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> thats a jolly good set of fixes, thanks to Martin. amazing we haven?t done this for so long! -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 25 12:07:17 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 12:07:17 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] All green -- no more broken links In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A88BDB6@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E2AF96.70509@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C1A88BDB6@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E3EF45.4060403@it.ox.ac.uk> Congrats definitely due to Martin here for sorting this out. Many thanks! -James On 25/01/14 07:48, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > thats a jolly good set of fixes, thanks to Martin. amazing we haven?t done this for so long! > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 26 07:09:17 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:09:17 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] oxygen i18n Message-ID: <52E4FAED.9080707@retired.ox.ac.uk> If you use one of the predefined Oxygen templates to create a new file, the popups displaying the description of a TEI element are inevitably in English, even when Oxygen itself is operating in some other language. Is this something we can control or should I ask Syncrosoft? From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 26 07:22:59 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 12:22:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Further purification In-Reply-To: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> This proposal didn't make it into the last release for plausible reasons. However it was warmly received for the most part, so I've now added a FR at https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/494/ which I hope we can agree to act on fairly soon. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Further purification Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 22:56:48 +0000 From: Lou Burnard To: Thinking about pure ODD, it occurs to me that it would be very useful if one could treat s in the same way as s -- i.e. by adding the attributes @include and @exclude to it would be possible inside an elementSpec to do things like (a) as a short way of suppressing a bunch of attributes or (b) as a neat way of saying which attributes I do want. Similarly, for model classes, it would be really nice to be able to say inside a content model something like (c) which would not interfere with seg appearing elsewhere in a content model, but would suppress it from inside in a tidy way. Anyone object to my adding these two attributes as part of the pure ODD work? From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 26 08:47:38 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 08:47:38 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Further purification In-Reply-To: <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> On 26/01/14 07:22, Lou Burnard wrote: > > This proposal didn't make it into the last release for plausible > reasons. However it was warmly received for the most part, so I've now > added a FR at https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/494/ which > I hope we can agree to act on fairly soon. I agree with the proposed changes below. I'd definitely use that. -James > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Further purification > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 22:56:48 +0000 > From: Lou Burnard > To: > > > > > Thinking about pure ODD, it occurs to me that it would be very useful if > one could treat s in the same way as s -- i.e. by > adding the attributes @include and @exclude to it would be > possible inside an elementSpec to do things like > > (a) > > as a short way of suppressing a bunch of attributes > > or > > (b) > > as a neat way of saying which attributes I do want. > > Similarly, for model classes, it would be really nice to be able to say > inside a content model something like > > (c) > > which would not interfere with seg appearing elsewhere in a content > model, but would suppress it from inside in a tidy way. > > Anyone object to my adding these two attributes as part of the pure ODD > work? > > > > > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 26 11:19:12 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 16:19:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] oxygen i18n In-Reply-To: <52E4FAED.9080707@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E4FAED.9080707@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <98288ffe-c6fb-4a81-be02-8e5aba602657@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 26 Jan 2014, at 12:09, Lou Burnard wrote: > If you use one of the predefined Oxygen templates to create a new file, > the popups displaying the description of a TEI element are inevitably in > English, even when Oxygen itself is operating in some other language. Is > this something we can control or should I ask Syncrosoft? the Exemplar schemas (which is where the templates popups come from) are only generated in English. We could obviously generate all of them in all the languages, but I don?t know if Syncrosoft support a method of mapping those to current language So ask Syncrosoft how to do it, then we can build that into the build procedure. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 26 21:31:09 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 21:31:09 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] example validity Message-ID: <52E5C4ED.7050203@it.ox.ac.uk> Hiya, Looking through the chapter on default text structure I noticed an example which was marked as not being valid. The second example after: http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/DS.html#DSDIV3 with
elements for morning and afternoon diary entries. Am I mis-reading it (possible, I am jetlagged)... or should that be completely and totally valid? When I copy and paste it into a TEI file in my preferred editor, it doesn't complain about it. In the source it is marked as *feasibly* valid... but I'd like to suggest that it is truly valid. (ok, the content of paragraphs is '....' but that doesn't stop its validity...) Thinking out loud. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jan 26 23:50:34 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 20:50:34 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] example validity In-Reply-To: <52E5C4ED.7050203@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E5C4ED.7050203@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52E5E59A.5090501@uvic.ca> On 14-01-26 06:31 PM, James Cummings wrote: > > Hiya, > > Looking through the chapter on default text structure I noticed > an example which was marked as not being valid. The second > example after: > > http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/DS.html#DSDIV3 > > with
elements for morning and afternoon diary entries. > > Am I mis-reading it (possible, I am jetlagged)... or should that > be completely and totally valid? Looks completely valid to me. I think that must just be a typo. Maybe someone copy-pasted another example and forgot to change that bit? Cheers, Martin > > When I copy and paste it into a TEI file in my preferred editor, > it doesn't complain about it. In the source it is marked as > *feasibly* valid... but I'd like to suggest that it is truly > valid. (ok, the content of paragraphs is '....' but that doesn't > stop its validity...) > > Thinking out loud. > > -James > > From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Jan 28 11:36:23 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:36:23 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] horrible email fail Message-ID: Hi all - i am not dead, but my email is for s**t. I was wondering why the odd silence from TEI-council, and now I discover that there has been lots of activity and i missed a phone call and I am terribly terribly sorry. Hecticness not withstanding. I am embarrassed and will make amends - reading and responding as we speak. --elli From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Jan 28 12:00:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 09:00:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] horrible email fail In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52E7E220.4050606@uvic.ca> Welcome back Elli! We were wondering what had happened to you. Cheers, Martin On 14-01-28 08:36 AM, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > Hi all - i am not dead, but my email is for s**t. I was wondering why the > odd silence from TEI-council, and now I discover that there has been lots > of activity and i missed a phone call and I am terribly terribly sorry. > Hecticness not withstanding. > > I am embarrassed and will make amends - reading and responding as we speak. > > --elli > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Jan 29 16:22:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:22:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Lengthy outage for UVic Jenkins machine Message-ID: <52E97108.1050103@uvic.ca> Hi there, Due to a router upgrade, the virtual machine running my Jenkins server (teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca) will be down from Thursday night till Friday morning Pacific time, so if you're doing source editing and watching builds, use Oxford Jenkins. Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 30 04:36:35 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:36:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Lengthy outage for UVic Jenkins machine In-Reply-To: <52E97108.1050103@uvic.ca> References: <52E97108.1050103@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52EA1D23.9060802@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 29/01/14 21:22, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi there, > > Due to a router upgrade, the virtual machine running my Jenkins server > (teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca) will be down from Thursday night till Friday > morning Pacific time, so if you're doing source editing and watching > builds, use Oxford Jenkins. > > I can't get connected to the Oxford jenkins either at the moment. Can anyone see if the changes I checked in yesterday built succesfully? From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 30 04:46:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 09:46:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Lengthy outage for UVic Jenkins machine In-Reply-To: <52EA1D23.9060802@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E97108.1050103@uvic.ca> <52EA1D23.9060802@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <192da8dc-2119-4ec3-a930-b62dc81436da@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 30 Jan 2014, at 09:36, Lou Burnard wrote: >> > I can't get connected to the Oxford jenkins either at the moment. Can > anyone see if the changes I checked in yesterday built succesfully? > yes, all fine -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 30 18:23:26 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:23:26 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Chapter 5 title Message-ID: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> The title of Chapter 5 got truncated prior to the recent release: http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/WD.html "5 Non-standard Characters and Glyph" This is a bit glaring as soon as you notice it. In addition, I've fixed nigh-on 70 broken links in the source. Do you think we should do a 2.6.1? Nothing major seems to have been done since the release with the possible exception of Lou's rev 12824 ("allow for pure content in datatype") -- Lou, would that constitute a major change to schemas etc.? If not, I'm rather in favour of a quick point release. Cheers, Martin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 30 18:45:36 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 23:45:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Chapter 5 title In-Reply-To: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> References: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 30 Jan 2014, at 23:23, Martin Holmes wrote: > The title of Chapter 5 got truncated prior to the recent release: > > http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/WD.html > > "5 Non-standard Characters and Glyph" > > This is a bit glaring as soon as you notice it. In addition, I've fixed > nigh-on 70 broken links in the source. Do you think we should do a > 2.6.1? Nothing major seems to have been done since the release with the > possible exception of Lou's rev 12824 ("allow for pure content in > datatype") -- Lou, would that constitute a major change to schemas etc.? > If not, I'm rather in favour of a quick point release. lou?s addition would change the schemas, albeit in an obscure area. it would have to be 2.7.0, if we follow the rules. But stretching a point to clean up at 2.7.1 would be defensible. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jan 30 18:52:04 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 15:52:04 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Chapter 5 title In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52EAE5A4.7010207@uvic.ca> On 14-01-30 03:45 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 30 Jan 2014, at 23:23, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> The title of Chapter 5 got truncated prior to the recent release: >> >> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/WD.html >> >> "5 Non-standard Characters and Glyph" >> >> This is a bit glaring as soon as you notice it. In addition, I've fixed >> nigh-on 70 broken links in the source. Do you think we should do a >> 2.6.1? Nothing major seems to have been done since the release with the >> possible exception of Lou's rev 12824 ("allow for pure content in >> datatype") -- Lou, would that constitute a major change to schemas etc.? >> If not, I'm rather in favour of a quick point release. > > > lou?s addition would change the schemas, albeit in an obscure area. it would have to be 2.7.0, > if we follow the rules. But stretching a point to clean up at 2.7.1 would be defensible. Do you mean 2.7.1 or 2.6.1? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 31 01:28:19 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 06:28:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Re : Chapter 5 title In-Reply-To: <52EAE5A4.7010207@uvic.ca> References: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <52EAE5A4.7010207@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <1141673d-863b-4792-8bd2-bccb4cf580e7@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I hope to see the proposed change to classref implemented before next release too Envoy? depuis mon HTC ----- Reply message ----- De : "Martin Holmes" Pour : "Sebastian Rahtz" Cc : "TEI Council" Objet : [tei-council] Chapter 5 title Date : ven., janv. 31, 2014 00:52 On 14-01-30 03:45 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 30 Jan 2014, at 23:23, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> The title of Chapter 5 got truncated prior to the recent release: >> >> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/WD.html >> >> "5 Non-standard Characters and Glyph" >> >> This is a bit glaring as soon as you notice it. In addition, I've fixed >> nigh-on 70 broken links in the source. Do you think we should do a >> 2.6.1? Nothing major seems to have been done since the release with the >> possible exception of Lou's rev 12824 ("allow for pure content in >> datatype") -- Lou, would that constitute a major change to schemas etc.? >> If not, I'm rather in favour of a quick point release. > > > lou?s addition would change the schemas, albeit in an obscure area. it would have to be 2.7.0, > if we follow the rules. But stretching a point to clean up at 2.7.1 would be defensible. Do you mean 2.7.1 or 2.6.1? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 31 03:59:57 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 08:59:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Chapter 5 title In-Reply-To: References: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <52EAE5A4.7010207@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 31 Jan 2014, at 06:28, Lou Burnard wrote: > I hope to see the proposed change to classref implemented before next release too getting that implemented is a serious bit of (interesting) work, and needs to be part of a more thorough testing of Pure ODD. I don?t think the valuable URL fixes which Martin did really justify an emergency 2.6.1 release - they have been that way for years in most cases. The chapter 5 title might justify it, but I don?t think it can be mis-read and thus mislead. On balance, I?d vote against a release. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Feb 1 10:22:03 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 10:22:03 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Further purification In-Reply-To: <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I am certainly in favor. But there are complications to work through. E.g., what happens if you include two attributes that are both defined as children of the same ? Are they now allowed to co-exist? > > This proposal didn't make it into the last release for plausible > > reasons. However it was warmly received for the most part, so > > I've now added a FR at > > https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/494/ which I hope > > we can agree to act on fairly soon. > > I agree with the proposed changes below. I'd definitely use that. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Feb 1 10:32:38 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 10:32:38 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Chapter 5 title In-Reply-To: References: <52EADEEE.70007@uvic.ca> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6E545B@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52EAE5A4.7010207@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21229.5014.909742.109761@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Interesting ... I agree with Sebastian's analysis, but would vote in favor of temporarily backing out the schema-change and releasing 2.6.1 with only the glaring chapter title and the URLs fixed. (Then putting the schema-changer back in, of course.) But I won't object to not bothering, either. > I don?t think the valuable URL fixes which Martin did really > justify an emergency 2.6.1 release - they have been that way for > years in most cases. The chapter 5 title might justify it, but I > don?t think it can be mis-read and thus mislead. > > On balance, I?d vote against a release. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Feb 1 11:08:03 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:08:03 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] example validity In-Reply-To: <52E5E59A.5090501@uvic.ca> References: <52E5C4ED.7050203@it.ox.ac.uk> <52E5E59A.5090501@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <21229.7139.977996.57290@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I just went to fix this. I found that there are 8 with @valid specified: * correctly valid=feasible * correctly valid=feasible * incorrectly valid=feasible, is just valid [1] * incorrectly valid=feasible, is just valid [2,1] * correctly valid=feasible * correctly valid=feasible * correctly valid=feasible * correctly valid=feasible I've now removed the valid-feasible from the two valid examples and will check-in as soon as my local build finishes (presuming it's OK). Notes ----- [1] Although arguably should not be ... P3 never allowed an empty
. [2] Only because we still allow numbered
s. :-) From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 1 11:09:14 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 16:09:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Further purification In-Reply-To: <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52ED1C2A.9090603@retired.ox.ac.uk> Only if you actually supply an with a different @org value. Which you wouldn't do by means on @include and @exclude on the obvs. FWIW, I don't think we actually have any @org=choice cases. Maybe one. On 01/02/14 15:22, Syd Bauman wrote: > I am certainly in favor. But there are complications to work through. > E.g., what happens if you include two attributes that are both > defined as children of the same ? Are they now > allowed to co-exist? > > >>> This proposal didn't make it into the last release for plausible >>> reasons. However it was warmly received for the most part, so >>> I've now added a FR at >>> https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/494/ which I hope >>> we can agree to act on fairly soon. >> I agree with the proposed changes below. I'd definitely use that. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 1 12:42:39 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 17:42:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6EA195@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 1 Feb 2014, at 15:22, Syd Bauman wrote: > I am certainly in favor. But there are complications to work through. > E.g., what happens if you include two attributes that are both > defined as children of the same ? prompts me to wonder whether we should remove that structure from ODD anyway, and push the problem back to Schematron. we don?t use it consistently. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Sun Feb 2 02:29:31 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 08:29:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <755385552.1459030.1391326171209.JavaMail.root@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Bonjour, James asked for comments on a proposal for a WG, so here are some thoughts to the current proposal regarding the WG on the consequences of a TEI . >From my point of view the TEI already started considering descriptions of objects of any kind, not only TBO, see also TEI-Council Face2Face-Meeting November 2013 where the question has been brought up that we then would need sample data. A positiv decision to consider descriptions of objects of any kind would, as far as I can see it, allow to create for example TEI-files on ? works ? ( = abstract objects) and associating relations, and there are certainly lots of different ideas what to describe in TEI. Personally I can see an existing demand for reflecting on synergy between FRBRoo and CIDOC-CRM and the TEI. As already mentioned in November, we are (in the scope of the French Biblissima project) working on an RDF framework for several databases including TEI encodings. Finally the results of the Europeana Regia project on Medieval Manuscripts already pointed in the same direction. An almost complete mapping between TEI and EDM would only be possible if one could express relations between CHOs in TEI. As far as I understand, probably a lot could be achieved by extending the scope of relation to the (proposed) object elements and to events, as the SIG Ontologies TEI MM 2013 suggests. The main challenge would be, in my opinion, together to look on the manuscript description from that 'new' object/relation perspective to get an idea about the possible synergies. A very interesting topic, looking forward to an upcoming discussion. Regards and bon dimanche Stefanie PS: If the TEI is interested in sample data, it would be my pleasure to ask project partners for their approval. -- Stefanie Gehrke ------------------------ Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima ----- Mail original ----- De: "James Cummings" ?: "TEI Council" Cc: "oyvind eide" , "Torsten Schassan" Envoy?: Samedi 11 Janvier 2014 10:05:58 Objet: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group Dear Council, I entirely neglected to forward this to Council and mention it during the TeleConference. Mea Culpa. This is Torsten's WG Proposal (attached) for a TEI Object working group. It does not include any costings for a face-to-face, but I would suspect that it would probably cost less than 50% of a council face-to-face. (Since we could have less people attending it, institutional contributions, piggy-back on important conferences, or be in some central location.) Please read the attached proposal and comment back to Council list (but CC'ing in Torsten and Oyvind) during the next couple weeks. Many thanks, -James -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: TEI Object Working Group Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:18:14 +0100 From: Torsten Schassan To: CC: , , , Hi James, hi all, here are some ideas on how to structure the work on the object matter. It doesn't go very much into detail but summarises the discussions held in various meetings and proposes a schedule. No words about the costs here but financial help to meet f2f might be needed unless the interested people will meet at certain occasions anyway. I hope this will be helpful. Best, Torsten -- Torsten Schassan Digitale Editionen Abteilung Handschriften und Sondersammlungen Herzog August Bibliothek, Postfach 1364, D-38299 Wolfenbuettel Tel.: +49-5331-808-130 (Fax -165), schassan {at} hab.de Handschriftendatenbank: http://diglib.hab.de/?db=mss -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 3 11:57:17 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 08:57:17 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Jenkins build problems Message-ID: <52EFCA6D.4060302@uvic.ca> Hi all, Just alerting everyone to the fact that both our Jenkins machines have been suffering connectivity problems to the SourceForge repository over the last couple of weeks, and right now the problem is acute. If you commit a change to SVN and a subsequent build fails, look at the email you get (or the console output from the build job on the server). If you see something like this: [quote] See ------------------------------------------ Started by user Martin Holmes Building in workspace Updating svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/tei/code/trunk/P5 at revision '2014-02-03T08:47:06.187 -0800' ERROR: Failed to update svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/tei/code/trunk/P5 org.tmatesoft.svn.core.SVNException: svn: E210004: Handshake failed, received: ' ' at org.tmatesoft.svn.core.internal.wc.SVNErrorManager.error(SVNErrorManager.java:64) [/quote] then it wasn't your fault; it was Jenkins and SourceForge failing to communicate properly during the SVN update process. Sebastian and I will typically notice this fairly quickly (assuming we're not asleep) and kick off the build process again manually, and we then keep trying until it works. We're trying to figure out what causes this; it used to be occasional, but now it's happening more often than not. Meanwhile, if you do svn updates, exports or commits that experience connectivity problems, please let us know. We'd like to figure out whether the issue is with SourceForge SVN generally, or whether it's specific to the Jenkins plugin that talks to the SF SVN. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 3 23:59:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 20:59:03 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> We do need to move forward with this soon. Commitments are beginning to pile up. Do we know where it's going to be yet? Cheers, Martin On 14-01-24 06:06 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > I'd be quite happy with either Ann Arbor or Raleigh in either Spring > or Fall. But I agree, we should start nailing dates and places down > soon. > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 4 05:12:29 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 10:12:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi All, Apologies for being lax on this, I'm just getting caught back up on emails. Hugh: If no one else here objects should we say that you will be organising the Fall meeting? Currently the TEI meeting in Chicago is scheduled for near the end of October. For the Spring meeting I guess the other central and fiscally responsible place is Oxford. Does anyone object to that? For those that were there, does anyone have any problems or changes they'd like to suggest to the way we organised the last one. Happy to get any feedback on or off list. Dates: End of April? End of May? If I put up a doodle poll with dates from the weeks of the 14 April, 21 April; 19 May 26 May. Does anyone have any particular dates in there that I should definitely rule out in advance? (Answer offlist I guess are easier) Otherwise I'll put up a poll in the next day or so. Similarly we need to start planning our next teleconference. I was going to put up a poll suggesting dates the week of the 10 March. I know the timing is slightly inconvenient because of the spread of people/timezones, but was the time of last meeting manageable? -James On 04/02/14 04:59, Martin Holmes wrote: > We do need to move forward with this soon. Commitments are beginning to > pile up. > > Do we know where it's going to be yet? > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-01-24 06:06 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >> I'd be quite happy with either Ann Arbor or Raleigh in either Spring >> or Fall. But I agree, we should start nailing dates and places down >> soon. >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Feb 4 08:41:19 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 05:41:19 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52F0EDFF.9060906@uvic.ca> Thanks James. I'm happy with Oxford, and I was very happy with the organization last time. April suits me better than May, but better to get the Doodle up and let everyone express their preferences that way. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-04 02:12 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Hi All, > > Apologies for being lax on this, I'm just getting caught back up > on emails. > > Hugh: If no one else here objects should we say that you will be > organising the Fall meeting? Currently the TEI meeting in > Chicago is scheduled for near the end of October. > > For the Spring meeting I guess the other central and fiscally > responsible place is Oxford. Does anyone object to that? > > For those that were there, does anyone have any problems or > changes they'd like to suggest to the way we organised the last > one. Happy to get any feedback on or off list. > > Dates: End of April? End of May? If I put up a doodle poll with > dates from the weeks of the 14 April, 21 April; 19 May 26 May. > Does anyone have any particular dates in there that I should > definitely rule out in advance? (Answer offlist I guess are > easier) Otherwise I'll put up a poll in the next day or so. > > Similarly we need to start planning our next teleconference. I > was going to put up a poll suggesting dates the week of the 10 > March. I know the timing is slightly inconvenient because of the > spread of people/timezones, but was the time of last meeting > manageable? > > -James > > On 04/02/14 04:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >> We do need to move forward with this soon. Commitments are beginning to >> pile up. >> >> Do we know where it's going to be yet? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-01-24 06:06 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> I'd be quite happy with either Ann Arbor or Raleigh in either Spring >>> or Fall. But I agree, we should start nailing dates and places down >>> soon. >>> > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 4 09:40:26 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 14:40:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: FWIW I am away April 22-25, and me week starting May 26 has some vital meetings in -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Feb 4 13:00:21 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 13:00:21 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: May bad in general for me, semester winds down, and also my mother comes to visit for a few weeks and she'd be sad if I took off just as she arrived. April is ok. Orthodox and Catholic Easter both fall on April 20 and Passover is during the week beginning 14th. Might be better to avoid that week? My ideal dates - mid-April. Or Week of April 28? Late to the party, but an fyi if it happens to be necessary. Brown would work in the week of 22-30 March, which is Spring Break here, and the rooms are all available. Mid May would also work here. -elli On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > FWIW I am away April 22-25, and me week starting May 26 has some vital > meetings in > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Feb 4 14:06:54 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2014 20:06:54 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I've classes in the second semester so I'd love if we fix the date ASAP. Form me week of April 7 is OK, less OK the week of April 28, fine May. Anyway I think it's better to setup a doodle :) About the location no preference, Oxford or somewhere in the States is the same. Fabio From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Tue Feb 4 15:33:46 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 15:33:46 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1391546026.15927.79312821.183F8B4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> Week of 7 April best. Everything else probably acceptable. Will wait on doodle. pfs On Tue, Feb 4, 2014, at 14:06, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > I've classes in the second semester so I'd love if we fix the date > ASAP. Form me week of April 7 is OK, less OK the week of April 28, > fine May. Anyway I think it's better to setup a doodle :) > About the location no preference, Oxford or somewhere in the States is > the same. > > Fabio > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 4 17:05:54 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2014 22:05:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <1391546026.15927.79312821.183F8B4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> <1391546026.15927.79312821.183F8B4C@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <52F16442.5090601@retired.ox.ac.uk> I'm definitely not available between 8 and 17 april. Waiting on the doodle. On 04/02/14 20:33, Paul Schaffner wrote: > Week of 7 April best. > Everything else probably acceptable. Will wait on doodle. pfs > > On Tue, Feb 4, 2014, at 14:06, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> I've classes in the second semester so I'd love if we fix the date >> ASAP. Form me week of April 7 is OK, less OK the week of April 28, >> fine May. Anyway I think it's better to setup a doodle :) >> About the location no preference, Oxford or somewhere in the States is >> the same. >> >> Fabio >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Feb 5 21:24:58 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:24:58 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Further purification In-Reply-To: <52ED1C2A.9090603@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52ED1C2A.9090603@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21234.62074.586012.341366@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> > Only if you actually supply an with a different @org value. > Which you wouldn't do by means on @include and @exclude on the > obvs. Makes sense, but when has to worry about the poor ODD processor. It has to figure this out at build time. > FWIW, I don't think we actually have any @org=choice cases. Maybe > one. We have three: @active, @mutual of @include, @except of @key, @url of But that, of course, doesn't mean non-TEI languages that want to take advantage of ODD won't use it a whole lot. From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed Feb 5 21:29:02 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 21:29:02 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6EA195@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6EA195@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21234.62318.93283.686590@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> The same (probably true) observation makes me think we should make an effort to use it consistently. :-) I won't put up a big hissy fit about keeping (after all, we *can* get the same expressive power from Schematron), but I think org=choice a powerful ODD construct we should keep. Furthermore, if we allowed @usage on , we would have the capability to express "one of these attributes is required", which seems useful. > prompts me to wonder whether we should remove that structure from > ODD anyway, and push the problem back to Schematron. we don?t use > it consistently. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 6 08:34:02 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 05:34:02 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Further purification In-Reply-To: <21234.62318.93283.686590@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52C891B0.1010405@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E4FE23.4030103@retired.ox.ac.uk> <52E511FA.6020100@it.ox.ac.uk> <21229.4379.463834.113807@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B6EA195@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21234.62318.93283.686590@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52F38F4A.8080906@uvic.ca> On 14-02-05 06:29 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > The same (probably true) observation makes me think we should make an > effort to use it consistently. :-) > > I won't put up a big hissy fit about keeping (after all, we *can* get > the same expressive power from Schematron), but I think org=choice a > powerful ODD construct we should keep. Furthermore, if we allowed > @usage on , we would have the capability to express "one of > these attributes is required", which seems useful. > >> prompts me to wonder whether we should remove that structure from >> ODD anyway, and push the problem back to Schematron. we don?t use >> it consistently. I'd rather like to adopt the principle that we only fall back to Schematron if we can't do what we want to do in the regular schema. The main reason for this is that I have almost never seen people validate their TEI files with the embedded Schematron (except in my own projects). I suspect the vast majority of the TEI-using population don't even know the Schematron is there. Cheers, Martin From dsewell at virginia.edu Fri Feb 7 09:23:42 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 09:23:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) Message-ID: Bug report concerning a TEI Lite schema. I will let Stelian know that Council has received his note, David ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:27:32 +0100 From: Stelian Dumitrescu To: web at tei-c.org Subject: TEI-Lite XSD Hello, I think there is a problem in the last TEI-Lite XSD schema. This schema depends on tei-enrich.xsd and both files contain the same object definition : I noticed you have updated the XSD schemas on January 20th. Is it possible to correct this issue ? Or can I have access to the previous schemas definitions ? I am developing a java application using this metadata format and unfortunately I can?t build the project anymore. You can try to set up a java / maven 3 project using the following pom file. Regards, Stelian 4.0.0 fr.scpo my-project jar test org.jibx jibx-maven-plugin 1.2.5 generate-java-code-from-schema schema-codegen compile-binding bind http://www.tei-c.org/release/xml/tei/custom/schema/xsd/ tei_lite.xsd fr.myproject tei META-INF binding.xml org.jibx jibx-run ${jibix.run.version} From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 7 10:52:32 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:52:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701D82@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> hmm. thats serious. I will see what I can find out -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Fri Feb 7 10:58:50 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:58:50 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Seems that xml.xsd and dcr.xsd imports erroneously (I guess) enrich.xsd, causing circular inclusion and double definitions. Fabio From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 7 11:09:51 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:09:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Feb 2014, at 15:58, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Seems that xml.xsd and dcr.xsd imports erroneously (I guess) > enrich.xsd, causing circular inclusion and double definitions. the reason this doesn?t get caught in the build is that with Jing it works fine. odd. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Fri Feb 7 11:39:42 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 17:39:42 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Xerces seems to ignore this problem during validation (and Jing use xerces) in-fact even in Oxygen all seems ok. To add a strangeness, the xml.xsd and dcr.xsd in the Oxygen framework imports tei_lite.xsd not enrich.xsd. 2014-02-07 Sebastian Rahtz : > > On 7 Feb 2014, at 15:58, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > >> Seems that xml.xsd and dcr.xsd imports erroneously (I guess) >> enrich.xsd, causing circular inclusion and double definitions. > > the reason this doesn?t get caught in the build is that with Jing it works fine. odd. > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 7 11:41:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 16:41:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B70235D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Feb 2014, at 16:39, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Xerces seems to ignore this problem during validation (and Jing use > xerces) in-fact even in Oxygen all seems ok. To add a strangeness, the > xml.xsd and dcr.xsd in the Oxygen framework imports tei_lite.xsd not > enrich.xsd. so I wonder which software _does_ throw the error. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 7 11:41:38 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:41:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52F50CC2.6030703@retired.ox.ac.uk> Which is what it should do, surely? The strangeness is why tei-enrich is being imported! On 07/02/14 16:39, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Xerces seems to ignore this problem during validation (and Jing use > xerces) in-fact even in Oxygen all seems ok. To add a strangeness, the > xml.xsd and dcr.xsd in the Oxygen framework imports tei_lite.xsd not > enrich.xsd. > > 2014-02-07 Sebastian Rahtz : >> On 7 Feb 2014, at 15:58, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> >>> Seems that xml.xsd and dcr.xsd imports erroneously (I guess) >>> enrich.xsd, causing circular inclusion and double definitions. >> the reason this doesn?t get caught in the build is that with Jing it works fine. odd. >> >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 7 11:42:37 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 16:42:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: <52F50CC2.6030703@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B701FB9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52F50CC2.6030703@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52F50CFD.6080701@it.ox.ac.uk> David: Perhaps in your reply you should point to the Vault copies of the XSD as well? -James On 07/02/14 16:41, Lou Burnard wrote: > Which is what it should do, surely? The strangeness is why tei-enrich is > being imported! > > On 07/02/14 16:39, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> Xerces seems to ignore this problem during validation (and Jing use >> xerces) in-fact even in Oxygen all seems ok. To add a strangeness, the >> xml.xsd and dcr.xsd in the Oxygen framework imports tei_lite.xsd not >> enrich.xsd. >> >> 2014-02-07 Sebastian Rahtz : >>> On 7 Feb 2014, at 15:58, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>> >>>> Seems that xml.xsd and dcr.xsd imports erroneously (I guess) >>>> enrich.xsd, causing circular inclusion and double definitions. >>> the reason this doesn?t get caught in the build is that with Jing it works fine. odd. >>> >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Feb 7 15:58:34 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 15:58:34 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] F2F Meetings In-Reply-To: <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52E01ADB.2050608@uvic.ca> <1390422741.30881.74097465.49F11196@webmail.messagingengine.com> <21219.7221.470695.24124@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52F07397.7060608@uvic.ca> <52F0BD0D.7090600@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <017A27D9-B755-4C66-9511-EC1A4FCBB1F4@gmail.com> I?ve heard no objections, so will assume accordingly. April in general will probably be tough for me to manage, but we?ll see how it goes. Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:12 , James Cummings wrote: > > Hi All, > > Apologies for being lax on this, I'm just getting caught back up > on emails. > > Hugh: If no one else here objects should we say that you will be > organising the Fall meeting? Currently the TEI meeting in > Chicago is scheduled for near the end of October. > > For the Spring meeting I guess the other central and fiscally > responsible place is Oxford. Does anyone object to that? > > For those that were there, does anyone have any problems or > changes they'd like to suggest to the way we organised the last > one. Happy to get any feedback on or off list. > > Dates: End of April? End of May? If I put up a doodle poll with > dates from the weeks of the 14 April, 21 April; 19 May 26 May. > Does anyone have any particular dates in there that I should > definitely rule out in advance? (Answer offlist I guess are > easier) Otherwise I'll put up a poll in the next day or so. > > Similarly we need to start planning our next teleconference. I > was going to put up a poll suggesting dates the week of the 10 > March. I know the timing is slightly inconvenient because of the > spread of people/timezones, but was the time of last meeting > manageable? > > -James > > On 04/02/14 04:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >> We do need to move forward with this soon. Commitments are beginning to >> pile up. >> >> Do we know where it's going to be yet? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-01-24 06:06 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: >>> I'd be quite happy with either Ann Arbor or Raleigh in either Spring >>> or Fall. But I agree, we should start nailing dates and places down >>> soon. >>> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 8 07:16:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 12:16:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B706381@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Feb 2014, at 14:23, David Sewell wrote: > I think there is a problem in the last TEI-Lite XSD schema. This schema depends on tei-enrich.xsd and both files contain the same object definition : This is problematic, as we have 10 XSD files in the same directory, each of which refers to the same copy of xml.xsd, which produces an inevitable conflict if the schema software follows the route yours does. What puzzles me is that our testing procedure uses the Xerces library, which does not find any problem. What is the program you are using which blows up? For an immediate fix, I have done a hot fix on the web site to take it back to the state of the previous release, but I don?t think solves the problem properly. I suspect that if you switched to tei_all.xsd now, the same issue would come up again. I am going to look at a different solution for the next release. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 8 08:03:08 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 13:03:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face Message-ID: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi All, I've put up a doodle poll for both a teleconference in March (with lots of options!) and the face to face meeting in Oxford (also lots of options) to try to capture what dates might be ok for people. Please select 'yes' if you can make it, 'no' if you definitely can't and '(yes)' (which is yes-if-need-be) and add a comment at the bottom to explain any if-need-be entries if you think it will be helpful. Please try to fill these in before Wednesday 12 Feb. if possible. (Feel free to email with any questions.) Teleconference: http://doodle.com/g9bzbbc8x2q4n7cg (remember to turn on timezone support... the times I've put are 2pm and 3pm local Oxford time) Face to Face Meeting: http://doodle.com/pp9p8dak8hqhbduc I've put in sets of 3 days over April, May, June. The sets of 3 days are at beginning or end of working week. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 8 08:53:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 13:53:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] XSD schema funnies Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B706BB6@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I think I have fixed this, by creating a separate version of (e.g.) xml.xsd for each generated schema. I wonder if anyone here has a way of testing that they behave properly now, beyond the test using Jing that we have in place now? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 8 08:59:42 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 13:59:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle polls, but I?d be much happier if we established a program of telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, so be it. Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a telco every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Feb 8 10:14:31 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:14:31 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I very much like the idea of a telcon call every N weeks, for 1 or 1.5 hours come rain or shine. Or at least schedule the entire year ahead of time. (E.g., "the 2nd of every even month at 16:00 UTC, except for June which will be the 9th because most of us will be at DH" or whatever.) I very much prefer to use Doodle (or some such) to schedule face-to-face. > Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle > polls, but I?d be much happier if we established a program of > telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in > advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, so be > it. > > Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a > telco every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 8 10:54:58 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 15:54:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: If we find a date /time for this telco I was planning to suggest we just repeat it every 2 months on that day of month. So fill in the doodle with that in mind. Fwiw, James. -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Syd Bauman Date:2014/02/08 15:15 (GMT+00:00) To: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face I very much like the idea of a telcon call every N weeks, for 1 or 1.5 hours come rain or shine. Or at least schedule the entire year ahead of time. (E.g., "the 2nd of every even month at 16:00 UTC, except for June which will be the 9th because most of us will be at DH" or whatever.) I very much prefer to use Doodle (or some such) to schedule face-to-face. > Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle > polls, but I?d be much happier if we established a program of > telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in > advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, so be > it. > > Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a > telco every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Feb 8 13:40:32 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 10:40:32 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52F67A20.30106@uvic.ca> Agreed on the telcos. But I think it's going to be impossible to establish ftf meetings a year in advance, because half the Council won't even be elected yet. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-08 05:59 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle polls, but I?d be much happier if we established a program > of telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, > so be it. > > Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a telco every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 10 04:15:35 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:15:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI-Lite XSD (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B706381@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B714D44@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 10 Feb 2014, at 07:53, Stelian Dumitrescu wrote: > Thank you for your response and for your help. I use jibx (jibx.sourceforge.net) and maven to generate the java classes / bindings. ah, I see. It does make me wonder whether jibx is understanding the W3C schema language right, since the schema validators don?t have any problem. But obviously it is better to allow for everything > > Please find attached a project that will help you to test the compatibility of the schema with JiBX. thanks. as I suspected, the other schemas have the same problem. i am looking to see how to fix this for the next release -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Mon Feb 10 09:35:07 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 09:35:07 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <52F67A20.30106@uvic.ca> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52F67A20.30106@uvic.ca> Message-ID: regular, planned in advance telcos sound good. We could establish the month for which the ftf is targeted. thanks, --elli On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > Agreed on the telcos. But I think it's going to be impossible to > establish ftf meetings a year in advance, because half the Council won't > even be elected yet. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-08 05:59 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle polls, but > I?d be much happier if we established a program > > of telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in > advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, > > so be it. > > > > Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a telco > every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? > > -- > > Sebastian Rahtz > > Director (Research) of Academic IT > > University of Oxford IT Services > > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > > N?o sou nada. > > Nunca serei nada. > > N?o posso querer ser nada. > > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Mon Feb 10 11:25:50 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:25:50 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 Message-ID: Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop at DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will be shared soon. A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not hammered out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to select. tx, --ell From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 10 11:32:36 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:32:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71790F@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 10 Feb 2014, at 16:25, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to > participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data > model, but also as a developer. I had hoped to definitely be there, but panel proposal I was part of got unexpectedly nixed (seems you have to score in the 90% to get accepted these days), so now I am not 100% sure. But very likely yes. and apologies for my silence on hackathon doc, its Lou?s fault. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 10 11:46:47 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:46:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52F90277.4020909@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi Elli, I'll be there presenting a poster. -James On 10/02/14 16:25, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop at > DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will be > shared soon. > > A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to > participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data > model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. > > Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the > workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not hammered > out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to > select. > > tx, --ell > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Tue Feb 11 10:57:47 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 16:57:47 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> I?d like to go to Lausanne, though it?s not 100% fixed. Pizza and Coffee definitely raise the odds ;-) Best Peter Am 10.02.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Mylonas, Elli : > Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop at > DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will be > shared soon. > > A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to > participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data > model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. > > Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the > workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not hammered > out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to > select. > > tx, --ell > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140211/3deb8c3d/attachment.bin From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Feb 11 11:34:51 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:34:51 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> References: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> Message-ID: I have a poster accepted, and some institutional meetings for Italian Association, but it costs a lot and I don't know if I can have fund from my Dep so I'm not sure if and how many days I'll be there. What kind of projects are you thinking of? I could have a nice XTF related problem to solve :-) Fabio 2014-02-11 16:57 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : > I?d like to go to Lausanne, though it?s not 100% fixed. > Pizza and Coffee definitely raise the odds ;-) > > Best > Peter > > > Am 10.02.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Mylonas, Elli : > >> Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop at >> DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will be >> shared soon. >> >> A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to >> participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data >> model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. >> >> Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the >> workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not hammered >> out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to >> select. >> >> tx, --ell >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Feb 11 12:15:44 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:15:44 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> Message-ID: Some information for the rest of council: Hugh, Sebastian and I were tasked with organizing a hackathon at DH2014 - and we are applying for a workshop slot. We'd like to send out a call for participation, in which we ask for suggested projects. We'll accept up to @15 participants, and then have the group vote on one or two projects to work on shortly before the event. We would like to some experts in TEI and coding to be available. The population we are hoping to reach are reasonably experienced coders but necessarily TEI experienced. You are all welcome to attend and participate. Our immediate need is for people whose names we can put on the proposal to show who we'll have on tap. This is what I have so far: definitely: James Sebastian (I think we have to have you there for this to work) Syd Elli (not a hacker, however) Hugh (remote) Possibly: Peter Fabio No info: Lou Martin Stephanie Paul I'll approach Council, and am open to suggestions about other "experts." thanks, --elli On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > I have a poster accepted, and some institutional meetings for Italian > Association, but it costs a lot and I don't know if I can have fund > from my Dep so I'm not sure if and how many days I'll be there. What > kind of projects are you thinking of? I could have a nice XTF related > problem to solve :-) > > Fabio > > 2014-02-11 16:57 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : > > I?d like to go to Lausanne, though it?s not 100% fixed. > > Pizza and Coffee definitely raise the odds ;-) > > > > Best > > Peter > > > > > > Am 10.02.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Mylonas, Elli : > > > >> Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop at > >> DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will be > >> shared soon. > >> > >> A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to > >> participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a data > >> model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. > >> > >> Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the > >> workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not hammered > >> out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to > >> select. > >> > >> tx, --ell > >> -- > >> tei-council mailing list > >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >> > >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > > > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Feb 11 12:43:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 09:43:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> Message-ID: <52FA6134.4050802@uvic.ca> Hi Elli, I'm not going to be at DH 2014, so that's why I haven't responded. If you think you can use me in the prep, I'm happy to get involved, of course. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-11 09:15 AM, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > Some information for the rest of council: > > Hugh, Sebastian and I were tasked with organizing a hackathon at DH2014 - > and we are applying for a workshop slot. We'd like to send out a call for > participation, in which we ask for suggested projects. We'll accept up to > @15 participants, and then have the group vote on one or two projects to > work on shortly before the event. We would like to some experts in TEI and > coding to be available. The population we are hoping to reach are > reasonably experienced coders but necessarily TEI experienced. You are all > welcome to attend and participate. Our immediate need is for people whose > names we can put on the proposal to show who we'll have on tap. > > This is what I have so far: > definitely: > James > Sebastian (I think we have to have you there for this to work) > Syd > Elli (not a hacker, however) > Hugh (remote) > > Possibly: > Peter > Fabio > > No info: > Lou > Martin > Stephanie > Paul > > I'll approach Council, and am open to suggestions about other "experts." > > thanks, --elli > > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Fabio Ciotti > wrote: >> >> I have a poster accepted, and some institutional meetings for Italian >> Association, but it costs a lot and I don't know if I can have fund >> from my Dep so I'm not sure if and how many days I'll be there. What >> kind of projects are you thinking of? I could have a nice XTF related >> problem to solve :-) >> >> Fabio >> >> 2014-02-11 16:57 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : >>> I?d like to go to Lausanne, though it?s not 100% fixed. >>> Pizza and Coffee definitely raise the odds ;-) >>> >>> Best >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> Am 10.02.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Mylonas, Elli : >>> >>>> Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop > at >>>> DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will > be >>>> shared soon. >>>> >>>> A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to >>>> participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a > data >>>> model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. >>>> >>>> Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the >>>> workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not > hammered >>>> out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to >>>> select. >>>> >>>> tx, --ell >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Tue Feb 11 13:22:42 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 19:22:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 In-Reply-To: <52FA6134.4050802@uvic.ca> References: <88C83687-03CA-416E-85AB-B69971F030A1@edirom.de> <52FA6134.4050802@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <395199618.1730015.1392142962221.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Hi Elli, I like the idea but unfortunately I have to copy Martin. The same is true for me. Regards Stefanie ----- Mail original ----- De: "Martin Holmes" ?: tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU Envoy?: Mardi 11 F?vrier 2014 18:43:16 Objet: Re: [tei-council] TEI hackathon workshop at DH2014 Hi Elli, I'm not going to be at DH 2014, so that's why I haven't responded. If you think you can use me in the prep, I'm happy to get involved, of course. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-11 09:15 AM, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > Some information for the rest of council: > > Hugh, Sebastian and I were tasked with organizing a hackathon at DH2014 - > and we are applying for a workshop slot. We'd like to send out a call for > participation, in which we ask for suggested projects. We'll accept up to > @15 participants, and then have the group vote on one or two projects to > work on shortly before the event. We would like to some experts in TEI and > coding to be available. The population we are hoping to reach are > reasonably experienced coders but necessarily TEI experienced. You are all > welcome to attend and participate. Our immediate need is for people whose > names we can put on the proposal to show who we'll have on tap. > > This is what I have so far: > definitely: > James > Sebastian (I think we have to have you there for this to work) > Syd > Elli (not a hacker, however) > Hugh (remote) > > Possibly: > Peter > Fabio > > No info: > Lou > Martin > Stephanie > Paul > > I'll approach Council, and am open to suggestions about other "experts." > > thanks, --elli > > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 11:34 AM, Fabio Ciotti > wrote: >> >> I have a poster accepted, and some institutional meetings for Italian >> Association, but it costs a lot and I don't know if I can have fund >> from my Dep so I'm not sure if and how many days I'll be there. What >> kind of projects are you thinking of? I could have a nice XTF related >> problem to solve :-) >> >> Fabio >> >> 2014-02-11 16:57 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : >>> I?d like to go to Lausanne, though it?s not 100% fixed. >>> Pizza and Coffee definitely raise the odds ;-) >>> >>> Best >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> Am 10.02.2014 um 17:25 schrieb Mylonas, Elli : >>> >>>> Hi all a quick headcount - we are writing up a proposal for a workshop > at >>>> DH2014 for a TEI hackathon. Prose almost ready for prime time and will > be >>>> shared soon. >>>> >>>> A headcount - who will be at DH this summer? and would be willing to >>>> participate in a one day workshop as a technical expert - in TEI as a > data >>>> model, but also as a developer. We'll give you pizza and coffee. >>>> >>>> Also, we will be selecting some projects to work on by vote before the >>>> workshop, based on the proposals from participants, details not > hammered >>>> out yet, but we'll be looking for the council's input on which ones to >>>> select. >>>> >>>> tx, --ell >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 12 11:38:07 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 08:38:07 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> Message-ID: <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> I confirmed Peter's report on TEI-L -- I just tried to generate a RelaxNG XML schema from tei_all and got the same result. Time to restart Tomcat? Where is Roma running these days? Cheers, Martin On 14-02-12 07:59 AM, Peter Boot wrote: > This is what any attempt to generate a schema results in: > > > > > > java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create new native thread > at java.lang.Thread.start0(Native Method) > at java.lang.Thread.start(Thread.java:597) > at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.addTracker(FileCleaningTracker.java:141) > at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:94) > at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:77) > at pl.psnc.dl.ege.utils.DataBuffer.allocate(DataBuffer.java:148) > at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.performConversion(ConversionServlet.java:323) > at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.doPost(ConversionServlet.java:259) > at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:710) > at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:803) > at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:290) > at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:206) > at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:233) > at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:175) > at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:128) > at org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:102) > at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java:109) > at org.apache.catalina.connector.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java:263) > at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.process(Http11Processor.java:844) > at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol$Http11ConnectionHandler.process(Http11Protocol.java:584) > at org.apache.tomcat.util.net.JIoEndpoint$Worker.run(JIoEndpoint.java:447) > at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) > > > > > > Peter Boot > Senior researcher > Huygens Institute for the History of the Netherlands (Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences) > http://www.huygens.knaw.nl/boot/ > http://peterboot.nl/ > Tel.: +31 (0)70 3315804 > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 11:42:47 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:42:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> I've emailed Sebastian (as person likely to know what broke) and Ian Rifkin (as TEI-C Sysadmin). Restarting Tomcat might indeed solve it. I get a warning about duplicate XML declarations. I don't know if the 'tei' user on tei-c.org can restart tomcat or not. My suspicion would be that it is OxGarage (on tei-c.org) that is the problem since we don't hit it until generating a schema. Interestingly, testing right now shows that I only get the error when generating a RelaxNG Compact Syntax, the Relax NG XML Syntax seems to be fine. -James On 12/02/14 16:38, Martin Holmes wrote: > I confirmed Peter's report on TEI-L -- I just tried to generate a > RelaxNG XML schema from tei_all and got the same result. > > Time to restart Tomcat? Where is Roma running these days? > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-12 07:59 AM, Peter Boot wrote: >> This is what any attempt to generate a schema results in: >> >> >> >> >> >> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create new native thread >> at java.lang.Thread.start0(Native Method) >> at java.lang.Thread.start(Thread.java:597) >> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.addTracker(FileCleaningTracker.java:141) >> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:94) >> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:77) >> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.utils.DataBuffer.allocate(DataBuffer.java:148) >> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.performConversion(ConversionServlet.java:323) >> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.doPost(ConversionServlet.java:259) >> at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:710) >> at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:803) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:290) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:206) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:233) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:175) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:128) >> at org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:102) >> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java:109) >> at org.apache.catalina.connector.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java:263) >> at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.process(Http11Processor.java:844) >> at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol$Http11ConnectionHandler.process(Http11Protocol.java:584) >> at org.apache.tomcat.util.net.JIoEndpoint$Worker.run(JIoEndpoint.java:447) >> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter Boot >> Senior researcher >> Huygens Institute for the History of the Netherlands (Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences) >> http://www.huygens.knaw.nl/boot/ >> http://peterboot.nl/ >> Tel.: +31 (0)70 3315804 >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Feb 12 12:07:39 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:07:39 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <15778C9C-A13D-46E7-82AF-8435865805F3@gmail.com> An OutOfMemoryError definitely indicates restarting whatever process is issuing it. Depending on whether that process is running under Tomcat or not, restarting Tomcat may or may not help. Some things may still work, but whether stuff works or not will essentially be random. I got one generating a DTD. In essence it?s a Bad Thing :-) /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Feb 12, 2014, at 11:42 , James Cummings wrote: > > I've emailed Sebastian (as person likely to know what broke) and > Ian Rifkin (as TEI-C Sysadmin). Restarting Tomcat might indeed > solve it. I get a warning about duplicate XML declarations. I > don't know if the 'tei' user on tei-c.org can restart tomcat or not. > > My suspicion would be that it is OxGarage (on tei-c.org) that is > the problem since we don't hit it until generating a schema. > > Interestingly, testing right now shows that I only get the error > when generating a RelaxNG Compact Syntax, the Relax NG XML Syntax > seems to be fine. > > -James > > On 12/02/14 16:38, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I confirmed Peter's report on TEI-L -- I just tried to generate a >> RelaxNG XML schema from tei_all and got the same result. >> >> Time to restart Tomcat? Where is Roma running these days? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-12 07:59 AM, Peter Boot wrote: >>> This is what any attempt to generate a schema results in: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create new native thread >>> at java.lang.Thread.start0(Native Method) >>> at java.lang.Thread.start(Thread.java:597) >>> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.addTracker(FileCleaningTracker.java:141) >>> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:94) >>> at org.apache.commons.io.FileCleaningTracker.track(FileCleaningTracker.java:77) >>> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.utils.DataBuffer.allocate(DataBuffer.java:148) >>> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.performConversion(ConversionServlet.java:323) >>> at pl.psnc.dl.ege.webapp.servlet.ConversionServlet.doPost(ConversionServlet.java:259) >>> at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:710) >>> at javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:803) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.internalDoFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:290) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.ApplicationFilterChain.doFilter(ApplicationFilterChain.java:206) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardWrapperValve.invoke(StandardWrapperValve.java:233) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardContextValve.invoke(StandardContextValve.java:175) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardHostValve.invoke(StandardHostValve.java:128) >>> at org.apache.catalina.valves.ErrorReportValve.invoke(ErrorReportValve.java:102) >>> at org.apache.catalina.core.StandardEngineValve.invoke(StandardEngineValve.java:109) >>> at org.apache.catalina.connector.CoyoteAdapter.service(CoyoteAdapter.java:263) >>> at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Processor.process(Http11Processor.java:844) >>> at org.apache.coyote.http11.Http11Protocol$Http11ConnectionHandler.process(Http11Protocol.java:584) >>> at org.apache.tomcat.util.net.JIoEndpoint$Worker.run(JIoEndpoint.java:447) >>> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Peter Boot >>> Senior researcher >>> Huygens Institute for the History of the Netherlands (Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences) >>> http://www.huygens.knaw.nl/boot/ >>> http://peterboot.nl/ >>> Tel.: +31 (0)70 3315804 >>> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:24:24 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:24:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43ac0a1b-7db0-44e8-a0b1-cd224262c61d@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 12 Feb 2014, at 17:42, James Cummings wrote: > > I've emailed Sebastian (as person likely to know what broke) au contraire :-} > and > Ian Rifkin (as TEI-C Sysadmin). Restarting Tomcat might indeed > solve it. I get a warning about duplicate XML declarations. I > don't know if the 'tei' user on tei-c.org can restart tomcat or not. > > My suspicion would be that it is OxGarage (on tei-c.org) that is > the problem since we don't hit it until generating a schema. > yes. the error is in the message: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: unable to create new native thread Tomcat ran out of memory. Can anyone else log in? I just get Write failed: Broken pipe when i try -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:27:01 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:27:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> > Can anyone else log in? I just get > Write failed: Broken pipe > > when i try Nope, I get the same from any machine I've previously added to the authorized_keys I'm guessing the VM as a whole needs a restart. -james -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:28:12 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:28:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:27, James Cummings wrote: > > Can anyone else log in? I just get >> Write failed: Broken pipe >> >> when i try > > Nope, I get the same from any machine I've previously added to the authorized_keys > > I'm guessing the VM as a whole needs a restart. the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a reboot may not help -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:29:21 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:29:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> On 12/02/14 17:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a reboot may not help My experience with the DM VM is that this also occurs when SAN storage disconnects for a microsecond and the filesystem is re-mounted read-only. But yes, could also be full. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:31:49 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:31:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:29, James Cummings wrote: > On 12/02/14 17:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a reboot may not help > > My experience with the DM VM is that this also occurs when SAN storage disconnects for a microsecond and the filesystem is re-mounted read-only. ah right, yes. that would explain things. is Ian R responding? I don?t think anyone else has the power to kick the VM, do they? I am glad the meeting in Paris Lou and I just had was using the Oxford OxGarage :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:32:59 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:32:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FC96@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FC96@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52FBB04B.6090901@it.ox.ac.uk> Not responded to me yet. -James On 12/02/14 17:31, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:29, James Cummings wrote: > >> On 12/02/14 17:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a reboot may not help >> >> My experience with the DM VM is that this also occurs when SAN storage disconnects for a microsecond and the filesystem is re-mounted read-only. > > ah right, yes. that would explain things. > > is Ian R responding? I don?t think anyone else has the power to kick the VM, do they? > > I am glad the meeting in Paris Lou and I just had was using the Oxford OxGarage :-} > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Feb 12 12:37:17 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:37:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I logged in to the Plesk console that controls tei-c.org, and it looks like disk usage is not the problem--it's showing 30.3 GB used of 50 GB available. I don't have permissions to restart Tomcat, I don't think. David On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:29, James Cummings wrote: > >> On 12/02/14 17:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a reboot may not help >> >> My experience with the DM VM is that this also occurs when SAN storage disconnects for a microsecond and the filesystem is re-mounted read-only. > > ah right, yes. that would explain things. > > is Ian R responding? I don?t think anyone else has the power to kick the VM, do they? > > I am glad the meeting in Paris Lou and I just had was using the Oxford OxGarage :-} > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:46:40 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:46:40 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <52FBB380.9030307@it.ox.ac.uk> Would tomcat restart automagically when the machine was rebooted? (If so, maybe we should do that?) -James On 12/02/14 17:37, David Sewell wrote: > I logged in to the Plesk console that controls tei-c.org, and it > looks like disk usage is not the problem--it's showing 30.3 GB > used of 50 GB available. > > I don't have permissions to restart Tomcat, I don't think. > > David > > On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > >> >> On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:29, James Cummings >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/02/14 17:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> the ?Write failed? may suggest a 'disk full? error, so a >>>> reboot may not help >>> >>> My experience with the DM VM is that this also occurs when SAN >>> storage disconnects for a microsecond and the filesystem is >>> re-mounted read-only. >> >> ah right, yes. that would explain things. >> >> is Ian R responding? I don?t think anyone else has the power to >> kick the VM, do they? >> >> I am glad the meeting in Paris Lou and I just had was using >> the Oxford OxGarage :-} >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> >> > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 12 12:46:37 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 17:46:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:37, David Sewell wrote: > I logged in to the Plesk console that controls tei-c.org, and it looks like disk usage is not the problem--it's showing 30.3 GB used of 50 GB available. > doesn?t quite prove it, since one partition may be full. > I don't have permissions to restart Tomcat, I don't think. do you have power to restart the VM? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Feb 12 12:54:34 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 12:54:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I don't think that the "tei" user that Ian set up has the power to reboot. I don't see any virtual machine options on the admin panel at https://digitalhumanities.org:8443/. Maybe discuss with John U. whether to add a Council member as a backup sysadmin? On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 12 Feb 2014, at 18:37, David Sewell wrote: > >> I logged in to the Plesk console that controls tei-c.org, and it looks like disk usage is not the problem--it's showing 30.3 GB used of 50 GB available. >> > doesn?t quite prove it, since one partition may be full. > >> I don't have permissions to restart Tomcat, I don't think. > > do you have power to restart the VM? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 14 06:59:20 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 11:59:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Roma returns error: unable to create new native thread In-Reply-To: <52FBB380.9030307@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <8C78892E4EC2574C9F8E5DC90A1590CD45F1FEAF25@exmb11.ia.knaw.local> <52FBA36F.9090307@uvic.ca> <52FBA487.8070400@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FA76@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAEE5.7000903@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B71FBB8@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <52FBAF71.8080000@it.ox.ac.uk> <52FBB380.9030307@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72A140@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> has anyone got anywhere with this? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Feb 15 12:34:23 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 09:34:23 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> Sorry to push, but I'll need to know what the decision on FTF dates is in the next couple of days, otherwise I'll have to start slotting other things in and knocking dates off my Doodle entries. Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water for a bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the cataclysm so far? Hope you're all doing OK. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-08 07:54 AM, James Cummings wrote: > If we find a date /time for this telco I was planning to suggest we just repeat it every 2 months on that day of month. > > So fill in the doodle with that in mind. > > Fwiw, > James. > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Syd Bauman > Date:2014/02/08 15:15 (GMT+00:00) > To: TEI Council > Subject: Re: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face > > I very much like the idea of a telcon call every N weeks, for 1 or > 1.5 hours come rain or shine. Or at least schedule the entire year > ahead of time. (E.g., "the 2nd of every even month at 16:00 UTC, > except for June which will be the 9th because most of us will be at > DH" or whatever.) > > I very much prefer to use Doodle (or some such) to schedule > face-to-face. > >> Perhaps it is just me who hates and loathes filling in Doodle >> polls, but I?d be much happier if we established a program of >> telcos (and preferably f2f meetings too) for the whole year in >> advance, by fiat. If some people can?t attend one meeting, so be >> it. >> >> Doesn?t seem that controversial to suggest that the Council has a >> telco every 8 weeks, for one hour, come rain or shine? > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 15 12:52:55 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:52:55 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> , <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <68BAA61E-EC9D-4F53-940C-755EF10D0433@it.ox.ac.uk> > > > Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water for a > bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the cataclysm so > far? Hope you're all doing OK. We are all on higher ground, no problem .... S From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 15 13:26:59 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 18:26:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> On 15/02/14 17:34, Martin Holmes wrote: > Sorry to push, but I'll need to know what the decision on FTF dates is > in the next couple of days, otherwise I'll have to start slotting other > things in and knocking dates off my Doodle entries. Apologies for the delay. It seems that it is impossible for everyone to be happy with either of the things we're scheduling. If you look at the poll the _best_ set of dates for the Face to Face appear still to be 14-16 May. http://doodle.com/pp9p8dak8hqhbduc In this set of dates it is inconvenient but possible for Sebastian and Lou and impossible for Syd. Sorry, I figure it is best to inconvenience local Oxford people if we have to because it is possible they can nip away to other meetings or similar. Every date slot has someone who can't make it. But, *unless* someone has a good reason not to or wishes to change their doodle poll entry that makes a different slot a better choice it looks like 14-16 May is the best 3 day slot. If no one shouts in the next 2 or 3 days let's go with that. (Sorry Syd... is there a chance you might participate by skype for some of it?) Put that in your calendar now! For the March Teleconference http://doodle.com/g9bzbbc8x2q4n7cg one of the best is Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT. (Early for Martin but you've said you are ok with that.) Syd, again sorry, says he'll be teaching workshops but can possibly make it. Put that in your calendar now! In terms of repeating this meeting: I would skip May since it is just near the face to face and suggest scheduling additional meetings of: - Friday 6th June at 14:00 GMT. - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT Put them in your calendar now! Reminder: TEI Conference is 22-24 October. > Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water for a > bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the cataclysm so > far? Hope you're all doing OK. As Sebastian says I think we're all fine here... just transport links are bit in disarray. (I live on the top floor of a block of flats.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From s.bauman at neu.edu Sat Feb 15 17:39:02 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 17:39:02 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? Oh, and while we're at it, the next conference call (Fri 2014-06-06) is quite problematic -- it will be the last day of DHSI. BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. Glad to hear the weather hasn't swamped you. We're looking at another mini-blizzard tonight. > Apologies for the delay. It seems that it is impossible for > everyone to be happy with either of the things we're scheduling. > > If you look at the poll the _best_ set of dates for the Face to > Face appear still to be 14-16 May. > http://doodle.com/pp9p8dak8hqhbduc In this set of dates it is > inconvenient but possible for Sebastian and Lou and impossible > for Syd. Sorry, I figure it is best to inconvenience local Oxford > people if we have to because it is possible they can nip away to > other meetings or similar. Every date slot has someone who can't > make it. But, *unless* someone has a good reason not to or wishes > to change their doodle poll entry that makes a different slot a > better choice it looks like 14-16 May is the best 3 day slot. If > no one shouts in the next 2 or 3 days let's go with that. (Sorry > Syd... is there a chance you might participate by skype for some > of it?) Put that in your calendar now! > > For the March Teleconference http://doodle.com/g9bzbbc8x2q4n7cg > one of the best is Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT. (Early for > Martin but you've said you are ok with that.) Syd, again sorry, > says he'll be teaching workshops but can possibly make it. Put > that in your calendar now! > > In terms of repeating this meeting: I would skip May since it is > just near the face to face and suggest scheduling additional > meetings of: > - Friday 6th June at 14:00 GMT. > - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT > - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT > - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT > > Put them in your calendar now! > > Reminder: TEI Conference is 22-24 October. > > > Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water > > for a bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the > > cataclysm so far? Hope you're all doing OK. > > As Sebastian says I think we're all fine here... just transport > links are bit in disarray. (I live on the top floor of a block > of flats.) From philomousos at gmail.com Sat Feb 15 19:59:43 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 19:59:43 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: For what it's worth, I might have to leave on the 16th if we do it then. Hugh Sent from my phone. > On Feb 15, 2014, at 17:39, Syd Bauman wrote: > > So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference > call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? > > Oh, and while we're at it, the next conference call (Fri 2014-06-06) > is quite problematic -- it will be the last day of DHSI. > > BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever > technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI > Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. > > Glad to hear the weather hasn't swamped you. We're looking at another > mini-blizzard tonight. > >> Apologies for the delay. It seems that it is impossible for >> everyone to be happy with either of the things we're scheduling. >> >> If you look at the poll the _best_ set of dates for the Face to >> Face appear still to be 14-16 May. >> http://doodle.com/pp9p8dak8hqhbduc In this set of dates it is >> inconvenient but possible for Sebastian and Lou and impossible >> for Syd. Sorry, I figure it is best to inconvenience local Oxford >> people if we have to because it is possible they can nip away to >> other meetings or similar. Every date slot has someone who can't >> make it. But, *unless* someone has a good reason not to or wishes >> to change their doodle poll entry that makes a different slot a >> better choice it looks like 14-16 May is the best 3 day slot. If >> no one shouts in the next 2 or 3 days let's go with that. (Sorry >> Syd... is there a chance you might participate by skype for some >> of it?) Put that in your calendar now! >> >> For the March Teleconference http://doodle.com/g9bzbbc8x2q4n7cg >> one of the best is Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT. (Early for >> Martin but you've said you are ok with that.) Syd, again sorry, >> says he'll be teaching workshops but can possibly make it. Put >> that in your calendar now! >> >> In terms of repeating this meeting: I would skip May since it is >> just near the face to face and suggest scheduling additional >> meetings of: >> - Friday 6th June at 14:00 GMT. >> - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT >> - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT >> - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT >> >> Put them in your calendar now! >> >> Reminder: TEI Conference is 22-24 October. >> >>> Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water >>> for a bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the >>> cataclysm so far? Hope you're all doing OK. >> >> As Sebastian says I think we're all fine here... just transport >> links are bit in disarray. (I live on the top floor of a block >> of flats.) > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Feb 16 00:46:33 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 21:46:33 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <530050B9.9060102@uvic.ca> Syd, you'll be in Victoria for DHSI, so the conference call time will be long before breakfast -- no problem for classes. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-15 02:39 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference > call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? > > Oh, and while we're at it, the next conference call (Fri 2014-06-06) > is quite problematic -- it will be the last day of DHSI. > > BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever > technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI > Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. > > Glad to hear the weather hasn't swamped you. We're looking at another > mini-blizzard tonight. > >> Apologies for the delay. It seems that it is impossible for >> everyone to be happy with either of the things we're scheduling. >> >> If you look at the poll the _best_ set of dates for the Face to >> Face appear still to be 14-16 May. >> http://doodle.com/pp9p8dak8hqhbduc In this set of dates it is >> inconvenient but possible for Sebastian and Lou and impossible >> for Syd. Sorry, I figure it is best to inconvenience local Oxford >> people if we have to because it is possible they can nip away to >> other meetings or similar. Every date slot has someone who can't >> make it. But, *unless* someone has a good reason not to or wishes >> to change their doodle poll entry that makes a different slot a >> better choice it looks like 14-16 May is the best 3 day slot. If >> no one shouts in the next 2 or 3 days let's go with that. (Sorry >> Syd... is there a chance you might participate by skype for some >> of it?) Put that in your calendar now! >> >> For the March Teleconference http://doodle.com/g9bzbbc8x2q4n7cg >> one of the best is Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT. (Early for >> Martin but you've said you are ok with that.) Syd, again sorry, >> says he'll be teaching workshops but can possibly make it. Put >> that in your calendar now! >> >> In terms of repeating this meeting: I would skip May since it is >> just near the face to face and suggest scheduling additional >> meetings of: >> - Friday 6th June at 14:00 GMT. >> - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT >> - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT >> - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT >> >> Put them in your calendar now! >> >> Reminder: TEI Conference is 22-24 October. >> >>> Incidentally, I saw on the news that Abingdon Road was under water >>> for a bit. Oxford folks, have your homes and offices survived the >>> cataclysm so far? Hope you're all doing OK. >> >> As Sebastian says I think we're all fine here... just transport >> links are bit in disarray. (I live on the top floor of a block >> of flats.) From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Feb 16 11:59:30 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:59:30 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: > So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference > call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can look at the poll results and suggest an alternative time that inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to suggested changes! > BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever > technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI > Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How much of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved it to that then Syd could skype in...) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Sun Feb 16 16:08:37 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:08:37 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <445E5515-AEA7-4222-AA0F-88501A29BDA3@edirom.de> Sorry for putting my vote in so late but I?m unavailable 14-16 May as well. 12-14 May would be fine, though! Best Peter Am 16.02.2014 um 17:59 schrieb James Cummings : > On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: >> So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference >> call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? > > If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can look > at the poll results and suggest an alternative time that > inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to suggested changes! > >> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever >> technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI >> Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. > > Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How much > of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved it to > that then Syd could skype in...) > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140216/b512acc4/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Feb 16 16:21:21 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:21:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <445E5515-AEA7-4222-AA0F-88501A29BDA3@edirom.de> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <445E5515-AEA7-4222-AA0F-88501A29BDA3@edirom.de> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB47@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> 19-21 May is looking better. Only Hugh is definitely ruled out, which may be the least worst situation. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Feb 16 16:24:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:24:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB47@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <445E5515-AEA7-4222-AA0F-88501A29BDA3@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB47@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB9E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> i note that The Line Break Criminal, aka Paul, hasn?t put in prefs yet for the f2f. His choices may tip the balance one way or another?. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Sun Feb 16 17:09:43 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 17:09:43 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB47@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <445E5515-AEA7-4222-AA0F-88501A29BDA3@edirom.de> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B72EB47@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4BD6C402-2F85-4269-AC98-C7C5D981491D@gmail.com> For what it?s worth, I won?t be able to participate *at all* if it?s 19-21 May . I?ll be in meetings all day at work. I?m looking into my availability 9-11 June, which might only be highly inconvenient :-). Though it?s that way for most of us... Hugh On Feb 16, 2014, at 16:21 , Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > 19-21 May is looking better. Only Hugh is definitely ruled out, which may be the least worst > situation. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From philomousos at gmail.com Sun Feb 16 21:18:32 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:18:32 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: June 9-11 not good, but the latter part of that week (11-13) would actually be very good for me because I have a meeting in the UK the following week. That's not in the poll though. Possibility? Sent from my phone. > On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:59, James Cummings wrote: > >> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: >> So I'm going to miss both the face-to-face and the next conference >> call. Sending me a message, perhaps, James? > > If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can look > at the poll results and suggest an alternative time that > inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to suggested changes! > >> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or whatever >> technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to teach a TEI >> Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri 05-16, I'm afraid. > > Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How much > of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved it to > that then Syd could skype in...) > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 05:20:25 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:20:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi all, Currently the 12-14 May is winning... I didn't put the 11-13 June in because I can't make it. I figured if you guys are coming all the way to the UK I should at least show up. ;-) I just stopped it at there because I thought we'd find something in a 3-month range that we could make. Evidently I was wrong! I am around 16-18 June if that is a possibility? Also, the time slots suggested are only weekdays -- Should I put up *another* doodle which includes weekend slots? -James On 17/02/14 02:18, Hugh Cayless wrote: > June 9-11 not good, but the latter part of that week (11-13) > would actually be very good for me because I have a meeting in > the UK the following week. That's not in the poll though. > Possibility? > > Sent from my phone. > >> On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:59, James Cummings >> wrote: >> >>> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: So I'm going to miss >>> both the face-to-face and the next conference call. >>> Sending me a message, perhaps, James? >> >> If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can >> look at the poll results and suggest an alternative time >> that inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to >> suggested changes! >> >>> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or >>> whatever technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to >>> teach a TEI Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri >>> 05-16, I'm afraid. >> >> Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How >> much of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved >> it to that then Syd could skype in...) >> >> -James >> >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 06:50:21 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 06:50:21 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: If you can?t make it, then fair enough. I?ll be in Edinburgh June 16-17, as will Sebastian, so not worth extending the poll, I think. 12-14 May still the best bet. Weekends are ok by me, usually. Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Feb 17, 2014, at 5:20 , James Cummings wrote: > > Hi all, > > Currently the 12-14 May is winning... I didn't put the 11-13 June > in because I can't make it. I figured if you guys are coming all > the way to the UK I should at least show up. ;-) I just stopped > it at there because I thought we'd find something in a 3-month > range that we could make. Evidently I was wrong! > > I am around 16-18 June if that is a possibility? > > Also, the time slots suggested are only weekdays -- Should I put > up *another* doodle which includes weekend slots? > > -James > > On 17/02/14 02:18, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> June 9-11 not good, but the latter part of that week (11-13) >> would actually be very good for me because I have a meeting in >> the UK the following week. That's not in the poll though. >> Possibility? >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:59, James Cummings >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: So I'm going to miss >>>> both the face-to-face and the next conference call. >>>> Sending me a message, perhaps, James? >>> >>> If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can >>> look at the poll results and suggest an alternative time >>> that inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to >>> suggested changes! >>> >>>> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or >>>> whatever technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to >>>> teach a TEI Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri >>>> 05-16, I'm afraid. >>> >>> Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How >>> much of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved >>> it to that then Syd could skype in...) >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >>> > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Mon Feb 17 08:00:52 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:00:52 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError Message-ID: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> Dear all, I just tried several transformations (spreadsheets and documents) with http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage but all resulted in an java.lang.OutOfMemoryError. http://oxgarage.oucs.ox.ac.uk:8080/ege-webclient/ did work, though. Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140217/2cf673a4/attachment.bin From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 08:05:33 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:05:33 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> Message-ID: <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> I don?t know anything about how those services are set up, but since Roma is having the same problem, I?m wondering whether they?re being allocated enough memory at startup? The default is quite small (64 MB if memory serves). Who?s administering it and how do we pester them? Maybe we should think about moving services onto a platform we have more control over? Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:00 , Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > I just tried several transformations (spreadsheets and documents) with http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage but all resulted in an java.lang.OutOfMemoryError. > > http://oxgarage.oucs.ox.ac.uk:8080/ege-webclient/ did work, though. > > Best > Peter > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:28:46 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:28:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi Hugh/Peter, (Ian CC'ed) They are both running under tomcat I believe. Ian is sysadmining www.tei-c.org. Ian, is there any way to up the memory allocation for tomcat (if you think that is indeed the problem) since it is definitely having a problem. -James On 17/02/14 13:05, Hugh Cayless wrote: > I don?t know anything about how those services are set up, but > since Roma is having the same problem, I?m wondering whether > they?re being allocated enough memory at startup? The default > is quite small (64 MB if memory serves). Who?s administering > it and how do we pester them? > > Maybe we should think about moving services onto a platform we > have more control over? > > Hugh > > /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke > Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * > http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ > > > On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:00 , Peter Stadler > wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I just tried several transformations (spreadsheets and >> documents) with http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage but all >> resulted in an java.lang.OutOfMemoryError. >> >> http://oxgarage.oucs.ox.ac.uk:8080/ege-webclient/ did work, >> though. >> >> Best Peter -- tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:31:13 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:31:13 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: we haven?t solved the base problem yet, that we can?t even log in and reboot OxGarage -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:32:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:32:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:05, Hugh Cayless wrote: > I don?t know anything about how those services are set up, but since Roma is having the same problem, I?m wondering whether they?re being allocated enough memory at startup? its possible. more likely its the generic memory leak... -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:33:54 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:33:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> On 17/02/14 13:31, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > we haven?t solved the base problem yet, that we can?t even log in and reboot OxGarage Ah. Ian/DavidS: Have you done a reboot of the machine? (perhaps filesystem mounted read-only?) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 17 08:34:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:34:46 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53020FF6.4050704@uvic.ca> I have no objection to weekends, but if we have another poll to go through, I'm going to start losing dates even from the original set that I was available for, because I've got to give straight answers to some folks in the next day or so about other commitments. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-17 02:20 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Hi all, > > Currently the 12-14 May is winning... I didn't put the 11-13 June > in because I can't make it. I figured if you guys are coming all > the way to the UK I should at least show up. ;-) I just stopped > it at there because I thought we'd find something in a 3-month > range that we could make. Evidently I was wrong! > > I am around 16-18 June if that is a possibility? > > Also, the time slots suggested are only weekdays -- Should I put > up *another* doodle which includes weekend slots? > > -James > > On 17/02/14 02:18, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> June 9-11 not good, but the latter part of that week (11-13) >> would actually be very good for me because I have a meeting in >> the UK the following week. That's not in the poll though. >> Possibility? >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:59, James Cummings >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: So I'm going to miss >>>> both the face-to-face and the next conference call. >>>> Sending me a message, perhaps, James? >>> >>> If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can >>> look at the poll results and suggest an alternative time >>> that inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to >>> suggested changes! >>> >>>> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or >>>> whatever technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to >>>> teach a TEI Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri >>>> 05-16, I'm afraid. >>> >>> Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How >>> much of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved >>> it to that then Syd could skype in...) >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >>> > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 08:35:55 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:35:55 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Would it be worth it to have me spend some time on fixing that? Or is it something inevitable? If so, the standard solution is the good old periodic restart cron job. On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:32 , Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:05, Hugh Cayless wrote: > >> I don?t know anything about how those services are set up, but since Roma is having the same problem, I?m wondering whether they?re being allocated enough memory at startup? > > > its possible. more likely its the generic memory leak... > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:37:24 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:37:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <53020FF6.4050704@uvic.ca> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> <53020FF6.4050704@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53021094.8070709@it.ox.ac.uk> Please retain 12-14 May if at all possible for now. Ok, I'll do another poll in the next few hours which also contains fri-sun and sat-mon options just in case we can get a date where more people are happy. -James On 17/02/14 13:34, Martin Holmes wrote: > I have no objection to weekends, but if we have another poll to go > through, I'm going to start losing dates even from the original set that > I was available for, because I've got to give straight answers to some > folks in the next day or so about other commitments. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-17 02:20 AM, James Cummings wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Currently the 12-14 May is winning... I didn't put the 11-13 June >> in because I can't make it. I figured if you guys are coming all >> the way to the UK I should at least show up. ;-) I just stopped >> it at there because I thought we'd find something in a 3-month >> range that we could make. Evidently I was wrong! >> >> I am around 16-18 June if that is a possibility? >> >> Also, the time slots suggested are only weekdays -- Should I put >> up *another* doodle which includes weekend slots? >> >> -James >> >> On 17/02/14 02:18, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>> June 9-11 not good, but the latter part of that week (11-13) >>> would actually be very good for me because I have a meeting in >>> the UK the following week. That's not in the poll though. >>> Possibility? >>> >>> Sent from my phone. >>> >>>> On Feb 16, 2014, at 11:59, James Cummings >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 15/02/14 22:39, Syd Bauman wrote: So I'm going to miss >>>>> both the face-to-face and the next conference call. >>>>> Sending me a message, perhaps, James? >>>> >>>> If you (and Hugh who said he might have to leave early) can >>>> look at the poll results and suggest an alternative time >>>> that inconveniences you and others less, I'm open to >>>> suggested changes! >>>> >>>>> BTW, if we inconvenience Elli, too, I could Skype-in (or >>>>> whatever technology) on Mon 05-12 and Tue 05-13. I have to >>>>> teach a TEI Customization seminar on Wed 05-14 through Fri >>>>> 05-16, I'm afraid. >>>> >>>> Elli - you've marked 12-14 May 2014 as (yes-if-need-be). How >>>> much of an inconvenience is that for you? (I.e. if we moved >>>> it to that then Syd could skype in...) >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>>> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT >>>> Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> >>>> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:37:39 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:37:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:35, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Would it be worth it to have me spend some time on fixing that? if you know how to look at the system and try and find if there are any memory leaks, and you can find time to look, I shall buy you several bottles of whisky from my children?s piggybank. > Or is it something inevitable? If so, the standard solution is the good old periodic restart cron job. > which is what I do here at Oxford -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 08:39:50 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:39:50 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5FA502C3-F43A-43CA-B816-77C669134DD1@gmail.com> I can?t promise anything, but I?ve all sorts of Java profiling scars. You?d have to walk me through setting a system up locally. Is there documentation on doing that? On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:37 , Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:35, Hugh Cayless wrote: > >> Would it be worth it to have me spend some time on fixing that? > > if you know how to look at the system and try and find if there are any memory leaks, > and you can find time to look, I shall buy you several bottles of whisky from my children?s > piggybank. > >> Or is it something inevitable? If so, the standard solution is the good old periodic restart cron job. >> > which is what I do here at Oxford > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 17 08:40:08 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 05:40:08 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53021138.9040403@uvic.ca> Ian did have a cron job restarting everything, but it was causing the tei-c site to disappear from the web every day for five minutes at least, so I argued against it. If Tomcat is unable to survive without daily reboots, though, I guess we need to go back to it. This really puzzles me. Are they running an ancient Tomcat? version 7 doesn't seem to have this sort of problem. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-17 05:37 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:35, Hugh Cayless wrote: > >> Would it be worth it to have me spend some time on fixing that? > > if you know how to look at the system and try and find if there are any memory leaks, > and you can find time to look, I shall buy you several bottles of whisky from my children?s > piggybank. > >> Or is it something inevitable? If so, the standard solution is the good old periodic restart cron job. >> > which is what I do here at Oxford > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From s.bauman at neu.edu Mon Feb 17 08:40:27 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 08:40:27 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21250.4427.986547.837125@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> For me: * all of June except DHSI is (at the moment) available * in general (with exceptions), weekends are not just acceptable, they're good. > If you can?t make it, then fair enough. I?ll be in Edinburgh June > 16-17, as will Sebastian, so not worth extending the poll, I think. > 12-14 May still the best bet. > > Weekends are ok by me, usually. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 08:48:22 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:48:22 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <5FA502C3-F43A-43CA-B816-77C669134DD1@gmail.com> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5FA502C3-F43A-43CA-B816-77C669134DD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7312DA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:39, Hugh Cayless wrote: > I can?t promise anything, but I?ve all sorts of Java profiling scars. You?d have to walk me through setting a system up locally. Is there documentation on doing that? > have a look at the read me on https://github.com/sebastianrahtz/oxgarage, which is the bestest I have (i.e. not very good). I?d be intrigued to see if you can get it going from there! -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 09:11:31 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:11:31 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7312DA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5FA502C3-F43A-43CA-B816-77C669134DD1@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7312DA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5C3AEA47-2F39-4775-8F30-B59B59F34456@gmail.com> I?ll have a go. Got to install a Debian VM first. On Feb 17, 2014, at 8:48 , Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 13:39, Hugh Cayless wrote: > >> I can?t promise anything, but I?ve all sorts of Java profiling scars. You?d have to walk me through setting a system up locally. Is there documentation on doing that? >> > have a look at the read me on https://github.com/sebastianrahtz/oxgarage, which is > the bestest I have (i.e. not very good). I?d be intrigued to see if you can get it going from there! > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Feb 17 09:33:21 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:33:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I don't have full sysadmin rights on the new server. Plus I'm trying to transition away from such things on the new platform. IMO, there should be someone on TEI Council with root privileges on the server, for redundancy in case Ian is unavailable. That is something that should probably be discussed on the tei-board-council list, because there are security implications and all of the responsible parties would need to agree. (Possibly ADHO would need to agree as well; John U. should know.) David On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, James Cummings wrote: > On 17/02/14 13:31, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> we haven?t solved the base problem yet, that we can?t even log in and reboot OxGarage > > Ah. Ian/DavidS: Have you done a reboot of the machine? (perhaps > filesystem mounted read-only?) > > -James > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 09:44:11 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 14:44:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5302203B.5030909@it.ox.ac.uk> On 17/02/14 14:33, David Sewell wrote: > I don't have full sysadmin rights on the new server. Plus I'm > trying to transition away from such things on the new platform. Fair enough. > IMO, there should be someone on TEI Council with root privileges > on the server, for redundancy in case Ian is unavailable. That is > something that should probably be discussed on the > tei-board-council list, because there are security implications > and all of the responsible parties would need to agree. (Possibly > ADHO would need to agree as well; John U. should know.) I agree -- but having root wouldn't help us here since we can't even SSH in. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Feb 17 09:50:10 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:50:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <5302203B.5030909@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> <5302203B.5030909@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 Feb 2014, James Cummings wrote: > I agree -- but having root wouldn't help us here since we can't even SSH in. Sorry, I missed that part of the thread. In that case, it may require intervention from the ADHO administrator--Jan Christoph Meister . I'll send him an email asking him to reboot the server and copy Ian and you on it. All the more reason to start a discussion on tei-board-council at virginia.edu to clarify who has what powers to administer the site, and whether anyone else should be given sysadmin authority. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Feb 17 09:55:45 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 09:55:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Mentioning the DTA 'base format' on the TEI website? (fwd) Message-ID: A proposed new customization for the website. I told Susanne I would forward this to Council for consideration: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 15:51:36 +0100 From: Susanne Haaf To: web at tei-c.org Subject: Mentioning the DTA 'base format' on the TEI website? Dear creators of the TEI website, I would like to propose an addition to the Customizations site of the TEI-website (http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/): Over the past years we've been developing and establishing a TEI/P5 format for the Deutsches Textarchiv corpus (117 million tokens). This DTA ?base format? (DTABf) pursues the goal to enable homogeneous annotation of large amounts of historical texts (in our case historical German printed texts originating from the 17th to 19th century), which are heterogeneous with regard to their genre, the discipline they belong to, and their time of creation. There is a thorough documentation of the DTABf available at www.deutschestextarchiv.de/doku/basisformat. To broaden the text base, the DTA core corpus is gradually extended by high-quality textual resources provided by other projects, which are converted from various formats into the DTABf. This way, all DTABf texts become interchangeable and truly interoperable. The DTABf is recommended as best practice format for (historical) written corpora in the context of CLARIN-D. So, my question is: Would it be possible to include the DTABf as a customization privided by the TEI community on the TEI website (under http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/)? If so, what information do you need from us to realize this addition? For more information about the DTABf cf.: - http://www.oegai.at/konvens2012/proceedings/57_geyken12w/57_geyken12w.pdf (paper on the DTABf); - http://digilab2.let.uniroma1.it/teiconf2013/program/papers/abstracts-paper#C137 (abstract for the DTABf presentation at the TEI Member's Meeting 2013 in Rome; a corresponding paper proposal was submitted for jTEI 8); - http://www.deutschestextarchiv.de/files/HaafGeyken_DTABfLifecycle_Rome2013.pdf (slides of the abovementioned presentation). Thanks and best wishes, - for the DTA team - Susanne Haaf. -- Susanne Haaf, M.A. Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der Wissenschaften Deutsches Textarchiv & CLARIN-D J?gerstr. 22/23, 10117 Berlin haaf at bbaw.de, +49 (0)30 2037 0523 www.deutschestextarchiv.de, www.clarin-d.de From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Mon Feb 17 10:54:39 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 10:54:39 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <21250.4427.986547.837125@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> <21250.4427.986547.837125@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <1392652479.18409.84405169.4E59A7D2@webmail.messagingengine.com> I just got around to filling this thing in. But since I said "YES" to every option, it makes no difference. I said "NO" to Thursday phone calls, but even that could be managed. So: yes yes yes. When the decision is final, let us know and I'll start booking things. pfs On Mon, Feb 17, 2014, at 8:40, Syd Bauman wrote: > For me: > * all of June except DHSI is (at the moment) available > * in general (with exceptions), weekends are not just acceptable, > they're good. > > > If you can?t make it, then fair enough. I?ll be in Edinburgh June > > 16-17, as will Sebastian, so not worth extending the poll, I think. > > 12-14 May still the best bet. > > > > Weekends are ok by me, usually. > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Mon Feb 17 11:42:48 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:42:48 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Doodle Polls for both teleconference and face-to-face In-Reply-To: <1392652479.18409.84405169.4E59A7D2@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <52F62B0C.9050004@it.ox.ac.uk> <14031940-9c7e-44f0-a2ff-49e813702372@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <21238.18903.369861.912322@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <52FFA51F.6050404@uvic.ca> <52FFB173.108@it.ox.ac.uk> <21247.60550.746117.730558@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5300EE72.5050100@it.ox.ac.uk> <5301E269.4040809@it.ox.ac.uk> <21250.4427.986547.837125@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <1392652479.18409.84405169.4E59A7D2@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: I'm very "flexible" as well, only I need to know : > I just got around to filling this thing in. But since I said "YES" to > every option, it makes no difference. I said "NO" to Thursday > phone calls, but even that could be managed. So: yes yes yes. > When the decision is final, let us know and I'll start booking > things. pfs > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014, at 8:40, Syd Bauman wrote: >> For me: >> * all of June except DHSI is (at the moment) available >> * in general (with exceptions), weekends are not just acceptable, >> they're good. >> >> > If you can?t make it, then fair enough. I?ll be in Edinburgh June >> > 16-17, as will Sebastian, so not worth extending the poll, I think. >> > 12-14 May still the best bet. >> > >> > Weekends are ok by me, usually. >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 12:55:35 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 17:55:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53024D17.8010401@it.ox.ac.uk> On 17/02/14 17:42, Ian Rifkin wrote: > Hi, > > I was able to SSH to the server as myself, but I couldn't switch > to the TEI user. It reported that "cannot set user id: resource > temporarily unavailable." Digging some more it didn't look like > TEI was using a lot of processes on the server, but it was using > a lot of open files. Perhaps there's something in the TEI code > that doesn't close files properly after opening them, or perhaps > there is just a lot of stuff happening on the site right now. We'll try to investigate this. > Either way, the server wasn't running out of power so I increased > the soft limit from 1024 files to a maximum of 4096 files. > Because of the state that TEI got in I had to kill TEI Tomcat and > start it back up. I'm now able to login as the tei user, so I > think things are back to normal. I can now ssh in as well. > Do you have a sense for how many open files TEI would need to > have on the server? Do you think it's a bug in your code or that > it just needs a higher limit and we should be all set? No idea. > > Also, FYI, looking through today's email threads I see that there > was some concern about being able to reach me -- and even John > emailed me that you were having trouble. Am I correct that the > first email about this was at 8:30am EST today or is there an > earlier email that I missed? TEI folks may not know the agreement > with me: Basically I have a set number of hours per month that I > will work for all sites on this server, which I typically will do > during off hours (weekends, evenings). I agreed that I will > respond "best effort" to outages, but there is no set expectation > of response time. This was a particularly busy weekend (baby > shower for my wife!) so I was not on email as much, but I think 4 > hour response time (and I think it's fixed) is reasonable. If you > have different expectations there should be a conversation. erm, I emailed you on the Weds 12th Feb about this and got no response. I understand and appreciate the best effort support arrangement -- I do a fair bit of that myself. I just dislike the idea of any system relying on one person. Us having a way some way to escalate to doing some of these things in your absence (but not doing so if you are around) seems like it might be beneficial. Thanks for your help and for fixing the problem quickly. I think we might need to revert to restarting tomcat regularly. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 13:47:32 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 18:47:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <53024D17.8010401@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> <53024D17.8010401@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9479dec0-6a22-4322-b1ab-1fb169422dd7@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> i suppose its possible that OxGarage opens lots of files and doesn?t close them neatly. how does one check such a thing? I mean, is there a command which shows which processes have lots of open files? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 14:01:13 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:01:13 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <5C3AEA47-2F39-4775-8F30-B59B59F34456@gmail.com> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730FBA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B731166@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5FA502C3-F43A-43CA-B816-77C669134DD1@gmail.com> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7312DA@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5C3AEA47-2F39-4775-8F30-B59B59F34456@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7328F1@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 14:11, Hugh Cayless wrote: > I?ll have a go. Got to install a Debian VM first. > you dont need to. if you have a working Tomcat, throw in the .war files. you just need to have the stylesheets installed in /usr/share/xml/tei as well -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 14:15:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:15:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Mentioning the DTA 'base format' on the TEI website? (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B7329C9@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> i can?t see any reason why we wouldn?t do this. very good thing. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 14:22:45 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 19:22:45 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 Message-ID: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend slots added to it. Please fill in: http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s *immediately*. It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I will assume it is physically possible, just really really annoying for you. I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up with! Many thanks, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 17 14:45:41 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 11:45:41 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a screenshot instead. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such > difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I > have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend > slots added to it. Please fill in: > > http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s > > *immediately*. > > It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and > being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I > will assume it is physically possible, just really really > annoying for you. > > I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another > doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up > with! > > Many thanks, > > -James > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ftf_2014_doodle_2014-02-17.png Type: image/png Size: 107486 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140217/480cc462/attachment-0001.png From stadler at edirom.de Mon Feb 17 16:16:03 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 22:16:03 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: <9479dec0-6a22-4322-b1ab-1fb169422dd7@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> <53024D17.8010401@it.ox.ac.uk> <9479dec0-6a22-4322-b1ab-1fb169422dd7@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5D501050-8FBC-4CF2-A41D-8120A2C94D7A@edirom.de> I think lsof should do the trick. Best Peter > Am 17.02.2014 um 19:47 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > > i suppose its possible that OxGarage opens lots of files and doesn?t close them neatly. > how does one check such a thing? I mean, is there a command which > shows which processes have lots of open files? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 16:22:22 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:22:22 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] http://www.tei-c.org/oxgarage java.lang.OutOfMemoryError In-Reply-To: References: <1A91F228-3F82-46B2-A009-E7D153B7A2B0@edirom.de> <83274A99-DD40-483D-8F96-B567C02B8051@gmail.com> <53020E8E.4000501@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B730F4D@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53020FC2.3020405@it.ox.ac.uk> <53024D17.8010401@it.ox.ac.uk> <9479dec0-6a22-4322-b1ab-1fb169422dd7@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1e0a9c3e-3d9b-45c8-944e-b92e904f0f85@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 19:47, Ian Rifkin wrote: > To see processes I use the "ps" command. To see open files I used the "lsof" command. I specified the "tei" user with the -u option. As of right now, the tei user has under 186 open files. All files are from TEI Tomcat (various .so files, a bunch of .jar files, etc.) -- but 186 is not very high. I'm guessing that it builds up over time and the restart cleared out some of those that built up over time. > yes, I guess we just have to try and catch this one day and see if we can identify the culprit. at first sight it doesn?t look like OxGarage, opencms seems to be using a fair bit more. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 16:35:44 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:35:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 17 Feb 2014, at 19:22, James Cummings wrote: > > Ok, you guys asked for it. I didn?t! you can extrapolate my choices from the last one. I?d consider doing a meeting at the weekend, but with deep reluctance. and only on condition that all of you do a 5k run with me on the Saturday (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/oxford/). -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 17 16:39:19 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 16:39:19 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Looks like fun! On Feb 17, 2014, at 16:35 , Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 17 Feb 2014, at 19:22, James Cummings wrote: > >> >> Ok, you guys asked for it. > > I didn?t! you can extrapolate my choices from the last one. > > I?d consider doing a meeting at the weekend, but with deep reluctance. and only on condition that > all of you do a 5k run with me on the Saturday (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/oxford/). > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 16:45:24 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:45:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B733031@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 17 Feb 2014, at 21:39, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Looks like fun! i have to add a caveat that depending on the date I may not be able to run myself, as I am on the rota of run directors, and may have to shout ?Go? at other people instead. it _is_ fun, though. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Feb 18 17:22:49 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 17:22:49 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] hackathon workshop submission for DH2014 Message-ID: Hi all: Sebastian, Hugh, Arianna and I have put together a proposal for a hackathon pre-conference workshop at DH2014. Please view here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aWWZx-53mQ_yXB0TjZT2wQCJ6QTBdaK-gFeOdgIlYSo/edit?usp=sharing Please take a look, and send comments/feedback to the list. If you want to add a comment to the document that's fine, too, but preferably don't edit directly so we can keep track of changes. [except for James and Hugh who have to put in their expertise and bios] We'd like to submit this on Thursday, so whatever hasn't been said by Thursday morning won't be taken into account. So far, we have positive feedback from the board who will be approving the funding. One request - do you have suggestions for another expert from outside TEI whom we might invite to the hackathon? someone who'll have the time to attend and who is likely to be at DH2014. thanks, --elli From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 19 08:43:33 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:43:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case that someone is going to be disappointed. As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm saying we should go for that! It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every teleconference. Some updated dates for your diary: - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) -James On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: > Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a > screenshot instead. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: >> >> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such >> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I >> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend >> slots added to it. Please fill in: >> >> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s >> >> *immediately*. >> >> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and >> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I >> will assume it is physically possible, just really really >> annoying for you. >> >> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another >> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up >> with! >> >> Many thanks, >> >> -James >> > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 19 09:54:29 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 06:54:29 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5304C5A5.1050003@uvic.ca> Thanks James. I've blocked off the June/July dates. We should definitely go ahead and plan the fall meeting now, I think, before calendars start filling up. Maybe anyone who can't make the June/July meeting should have priority if there are conflicts for the fall meeting? Cheers, Martin On 14-02-19 05:43 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case > that someone is going to be disappointed. > > As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July > 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able > to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are > inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who > hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm > saying we should go for that! > > It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments > about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I > suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, > it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every > teleconference. > > Some updated dates for your diary: > > - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) > - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) > - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) > - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > > (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before > trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) > > -James > > On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a >> screenshot instead. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: >>> >>> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such >>> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I >>> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend >>> slots added to it. Please fill in: >>> >>> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s >>> >>> *immediately*. >>> >>> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and >>> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I >>> will assume it is physically possible, just really really >>> annoying for you. >>> >>> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another >>> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up >>> with! >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> -James >>> >> >> > > From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Wed Feb 19 09:57:45 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:57:45 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi all - I put my dates, not conflicting at the moment,Looks like I only added weight to the existing distribution. --elli On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:43 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case > that someone is going to be disappointed. > > As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July > 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able > to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are > inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who > hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm > saying we should go for that! > > It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments > about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I > suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, > it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every > teleconference. > > Some updated dates for your diary: > > - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) > - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) > - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) > - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > > (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before > trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) > > -James > > On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: > > Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a > > screenshot instead. > > > > Cheers, > > Martin > > > > On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: > >> > >> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such > >> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I > >> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend > >> slots added to it. Please fill in: > >> > >> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s > >> > >> *immediately*. > >> > >> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and > >> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I > >> will assume it is physically possible, just really really > >> annoying for you. > >> > >> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another > >> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up > >> with! > >> > >> Many thanks, > >> > >> -James > >> > > > > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 19 12:12:00 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 09:12:00 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5304E5E0.7070403@uvic.ca> Just clarifying something: The times for teleconferences in May, August and October are UTC, not British time, right? So they'll be at 3pm in Britain due to British Summer Time (and 7 am for me, as opposed to 6am for the other teleconferences). Cheers, Martin On 14-02-19 05:43 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case > that someone is going to be disappointed. > > As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July > 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able > to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are > inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who > hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm > saying we should go for that! > > It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments > about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I > suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, > it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every > teleconference. > > Some updated dates for your diary: > > - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) > - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) > - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) > - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > > (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before > trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) > > -James > > On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a >> screenshot instead. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: >>> >>> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such >>> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I >>> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend >>> slots added to it. Please fill in: >>> >>> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s >>> >>> *immediately*. >>> >>> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and >>> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I >>> will assume it is physically possible, just really really >>> annoying for you. >>> >>> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another >>> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up >>> with! >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> -James >>> >> >> > > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 06:32:29 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:32:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <5304E5E0.7070403@uvic.ca> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> <5304E5E0.7070403@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5305E7CD.4020203@it.ox.ac.uk> Oh Darn, you point out me being silly and putting GMT there. I really mean "local Oxford time" throughout the year. So for May, June, August, October that should read BST. The idea definitely was to have them at the same time (once all our daylight savings times are in sync) - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) - Friday 30th May at 14:00 BST (teleconference) - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) - Friday 1st August at 14:00 BST (teleconference) - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 BST (teleconference) - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) -James On 19/02/14 17:12, Martin Holmes wrote: > Just clarifying something: > > The times for teleconferences in May, August and October are UTC, not > British time, right? So they'll be at 3pm in Britain due to British > Summer Time (and 7 am for me, as opposed to 6am for the other > teleconferences). > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-19 05:43 AM, James Cummings wrote: >> Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case >> that someone is going to be disappointed. >> >> As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July >> 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able >> to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are >> inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who >> hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm >> saying we should go for that! >> >> It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments >> about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I >> suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, >> it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every >> teleconference. >> >> Some updated dates for your diary: >> >> - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >> - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >> - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) >> - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >> - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >> - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) >> - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) >> - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >> >> (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before >> trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) >> >> -James >> >> On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a >>> screenshot instead. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Martin >>> >>> On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: >>>> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such >>>> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I >>>> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend >>>> slots added to it. Please fill in: >>>> >>>> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s >>>> >>>> *immediately*. >>>> >>>> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and >>>> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I >>>> will assume it is physically possible, just really really >>>> annoying for you. >>>> >>>> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another >>>> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up >>>> with! >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>> >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 09:59:49 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 14:59:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] New Poll for Face-To-Face Oxford 2014 In-Reply-To: <5305E7CD.4020203@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53026185.3090406@it.ox.ac.uk> <530266E5.7080900@uvic.ca> <5304B505.3020900@it.ox.ac.uk> <5304E5E0.7070403@uvic.ca> <5305E7CD.4020203@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53061865.8000702@it.ox.ac.uk> Having heard no screams of complaint I'm going to take Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July as the solid dates for the face to face. Please make sure you put these into your calendar now! If anyone else can't make it then hopefully they can join by skype. I am operating under the assumption that those coming will need 4 nights accommodation checking in Sunday 29 June and departing the morning of the Thursday 3 July. If you need less than this, please let me know. I'm assuming that Syd, Elli, Fabio, Stefanie, Martin, Paul, and Peter all need accommodation for these nights and that Hugh will not be able to make it. If any of that is incorrect for you, please email me off list. (If it is correct, feel free to confirm also off list). I'll now go look into booking a meeting place and accommodation, -James On 20/02/14 11:32, James Cummings wrote: > Oh Darn, you point out me being silly and putting GMT there. I > really mean "local Oxford time" throughout the year. So for May, > June, August, October that should read BST. The idea definitely > was to have them at the same time (once all our daylight savings > times are in sync) > > - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > - Friday 30th May at 14:00 BST (teleconference) > - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) > - Friday 1st August at 14:00 BST (teleconference) > - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 BST (teleconference) > - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) > - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) > - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) > > > -James > > On 19/02/14 17:12, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Just clarifying something: >> >> The times for teleconferences in May, August and October are UTC, not >> British time, right? So they'll be at 3pm in Britain due to British >> Summer Time (and 7 am for me, as opposed to 6am for the other >> teleconferences). >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-19 05:43 AM, James Cummings wrote: >>> Based on those who have answered already, it is still the case >>> that someone is going to be disappointed. >>> >>> As a result, I'm suggesting the Monday 30 June - Wednesday 2 July >>> 2014 as the council face to face. This means Hugh won't be able >>> to make it (maybe some by skype?) and Fabio and Stephanie are >>> inconvenienced (hopefully not too much). Unless everyone who >>> hasn't answered comes back and says this is impossible, then I'm >>> saying we should go for that! >>> >>> It is a bit later than usual. Because of that, and other comments >>> about the teleconference originally scheduled for 6 June, I >>> suggest we push that teleconference back to the 30 May. Remember, >>> it is understood that not everyone will be able to make every >>> teleconference. >>> >>> Some updated dates for your diary: >>> >>> - Friday 7th March at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >>> - Friday 30th May at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >>> - Monday 30 June - Wed 2 July (Face to Face, Oxford) >>> - Friday 1st August at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >>> - Friday 3rd October at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >>> - Wed 22 - Fri 24 October (TEI Conference) >>> - Sometime in November (Face to Face, Duke) >>> - Friday 5 December at 14:00 GMT (teleconference) >>> >>> (Dare I say it Hugh, you should probably not wait too long before >>> trying to decide on dates for Nov., if you are still willing!) >>> >>> -James >>> >>> On 17/02/14 19:45, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> Doodle will not save my results for some reason. Here's a >>>> screenshot instead. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 14-02-17 11:22 AM, James Cummings wrote: >>>>> Ok, you guys asked for it. Since everyone is having such >>>>> difficulty freeing up their schedule for a face to face meeting I >>>>> have put up *another* poll, this time it has lots of weekend >>>>> slots added to it. Please fill in: >>>>> >>>>> http://doodle.com/3rcqtusqwunrb93s >>>>> >>>>> *immediately*. >>>>> >>>>> It is assumed that we'll all be shifting some stuff around and >>>>> being slightly inconvenienced. If you answer (yes if-need-be) I >>>>> will assume it is physically possible, just really really >>>>> annoying for you. >>>>> >>>>> I apologise for the duplication of labour of filling in another >>>>> doodle poll. We'll definitely go with whatever this one comes up >>>>> with! >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> -James >>>>> > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 11:19:12 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:19:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question Message-ID: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi all, It looks like the place we had the meeting last time (Rewley House) does indeed have space in a meeting room on the 30 June - 3 July, especially if I book soon. In order to book and pay with a single purchase order I need to know what we are doing for lunches. For those who came to this location last time, we had a 'meeting lunch' in the room two days and a 'dining room lunch' one of the other days. I also need to get people's dietary restrictions (don't rely on me remembering!). I will assume you are a meat eating omnivore with no substantial allergies if you do not email me (offlist). If I can get a quick show of hands...if the options are: a) Dining Room Lunch: 3 courses, downstairs in the same building. Quick, close, hot, limited options. b) Meeting Room Lunch: Sandwiches and goodies brought to room. Quick, in-room, cold, lots of bread. c) Go somewhere else: Go out for lunch to a different place each day. Takes more time, more complicated to organise/get agreement, but more of a break. d) some combination of the above (please specify). which do you prefer? (All members of Council have a vote!) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 11:25:03 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:25:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1af57784-472e-4a75-8b82-f5b4dcadd900@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> i liked the variation. i.e. sit down one day, sandwiches another. I thought Rewley House did a good job. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 11:42:01 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 16:42:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B74362E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B74362E@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53063059.5060300@it.ox.ac.uk> For the record I'm told we'll be in a smaller room than before (but are free to use the common room for breakout sessions, or outside, depending on weather). -James On 20/02/14 16:25, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > i liked the variation. i.e. sit down one day, sandwiches another. I thought Rewley > House did a good job. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 20 11:43:04 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 08:43:04 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53063098.50308@uvic.ca> I liked it the way we did it last time. Once you venture outside to a restaurant, two hours get eaten up with the inevitable bumbling through the streets in a large group, losing people, and waiting to be served. The meeting-room lunch is optimal for getting as much work done as possible, and the meal downstairs made a nice change and was quite tasty. I have no dietary restrictions (except natto and durian). Cheers, Martin On 14-02-20 08:19 AM, James Cummings wrote: > Hi all, > > It looks like the place we had the meeting last time (Rewley > House) does indeed have space in a meeting room on the 30 June - > 3 July, especially if I book soon. In order to book and pay with > a single purchase order I need to know what we are doing for > lunches. For those who came to this location last time, we had a > 'meeting lunch' in the room two days and a 'dining room lunch' > one of the other days. > > I also need to get people's dietary restrictions (don't rely on > me remembering!). I will assume you are a meat eating omnivore > with no substantial allergies if you do not email me (offlist). > > If I can get a quick show of hands...if the options are: > a) Dining Room Lunch: 3 courses, downstairs in the same building. > Quick, close, hot, limited options. > b) Meeting Room Lunch: Sandwiches and goodies brought to room. > Quick, in-room, cold, lots of bread. > c) Go somewhere else: Go out for lunch to a different place each > day. Takes more time, more complicated to organise/get agreement, > but more of a break. > d) some combination of the above (please specify). > > which do you prefer? (All members of Council have a vote!) > > -James > From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Feb 20 12:46:01 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 12:46:01 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> First, you can't use my crazy diet to decide what everyone else does for lunch. That said, IIRC last time at Rewley the lunches delivered to the room offered nohting for me. The lunch served downstairs was much better. That said, my instinct is that the best thing for the group is (d), a mix, something like: day 1: (b) day 2: (c) day 3: (a) > It looks like the place we had the meeting last time (Rewley House) > does indeed have space in a meeting room on the 30 June - 3 July, > especially if I book soon. In order to book and pay with a single > purchase order I need to know what we are doing for lunches. For > those who came to this location last time, we had a 'meeting lunch' > in the room two days and a 'dining room lunch' one of the other > days. > > I also need to get people's dietary restrictions (don't rely on me > remembering!). I will assume you are a meat eating omnivore with no > substantial allergies if you do not email me (offlist). > > If I can get a quick show of hands...if the options are: > a) Dining Room Lunch: 3 courses, downstairs in the same building. > Quick, close, hot, limited options. > b) Meeting Room Lunch: Sandwiches and goodies brought to room. > Quick, in-room, cold, lots of bread. > c) Go somewhere else: Go out for lunch to a different place each > day. Takes more time, more complicated to organise/get agreement, > but more of a break. > d) some combination of the above (please specify). > > which do you prefer? (All members of Council have a vote!) From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 13:28:37 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:28:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <53063098.50308@uvic.ca> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <53063098.50308@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53064955.3090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> Mmmm durian. But I agree with everyone that the mix was fine last time. As one of my favourite authors remarks "They order these things better in France". Lou (je prends le menu gourmand svp) Burnard On 20/02/14 16:43, Martin Holmes wrote: > I liked it the way we did it last time. Once you venture outside to a > restaurant, two hours get eaten up with the inevitable bumbling through > the streets in a large group, losing people, and waiting to be served. > The meeting-room lunch is optimal for getting as much work done as > possible, and the meal downstairs made a nice change and was quite tasty. > > I have no dietary restrictions (except natto and durian). > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-20 08:19 AM, James Cummings wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> It looks like the place we had the meeting last time (Rewley >> House) does indeed have space in a meeting room on the 30 June - >> 3 July, especially if I book soon. In order to book and pay with >> a single purchase order I need to know what we are doing for >> lunches. For those who came to this location last time, we had a >> 'meeting lunch' in the room two days and a 'dining room lunch' >> one of the other days. >> >> I also need to get people's dietary restrictions (don't rely on >> me remembering!). I will assume you are a meat eating omnivore >> with no substantial allergies if you do not email me (offlist). >> >> If I can get a quick show of hands...if the options are: >> a) Dining Room Lunch: 3 courses, downstairs in the same building. >> Quick, close, hot, limited options. >> b) Meeting Room Lunch: Sandwiches and goodies brought to room. >> Quick, in-room, cold, lots of bread. >> c) Go somewhere else: Go out for lunch to a different place each >> day. Takes more time, more complicated to organise/get agreement, >> but more of a break. >> d) some combination of the above (please specify). >> >> which do you prefer? (All members of Council have a vote!) >> >> -James >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 13:34:14 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 18:34:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <53064955.3090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <53063098.50308@uvic.ca> <53064955.3090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <441bcfc4-1819-4146-b83f-a493b531631c@HUB06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 20 Feb 2014, at 18:28, Lou Burnard wrote: > > As one of my favourite authors remarks "They order these things better > in France". where ?these things? != ?eduroam?? Il n'est rien tel qui balai neuf -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Feb 20 14:17:35 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:17:35 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) Fabio 2014-02-20 18:46 GMT+01:00 Syd Bauman : > First, you can't use my crazy diet to decide what everyone else does > for lunch. That said, IIRC last time at Rewley the lunches delivered > to the room offered nohting for me. The lunch served downstairs was > much better. > > That said, my instinct is that the best thing for the group is (d), a > mix, something like: > day 1: (b) > day 2: (c) > day 3: (a) > >> It looks like the place we had the meeting last time (Rewley House) >> does indeed have space in a meeting room on the 30 June - 3 July, >> especially if I book soon. In order to book and pay with a single >> purchase order I need to know what we are doing for lunches. For >> those who came to this location last time, we had a 'meeting lunch' >> in the room two days and a 'dining room lunch' one of the other >> days. >> >> I also need to get people's dietary restrictions (don't rely on me >> remembering!). I will assume you are a meat eating omnivore with no >> substantial allergies if you do not email me (offlist). >> >> If I can get a quick show of hands...if the options are: >> a) Dining Room Lunch: 3 courses, downstairs in the same building. >> Quick, close, hot, limited options. >> b) Meeting Room Lunch: Sandwiches and goodies brought to room. >> Quick, in-room, cold, lots of bread. >> c) Go somewhere else: Go out for lunch to a different place each >> day. Takes more time, more complicated to organise/get agreement, >> but more of a break. >> d) some combination of the above (please specify). >> >> which do you prefer? (All members of Council have a vote!) > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 20 17:11:54 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 22:11:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) this is just lunch we are talking about so far. of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps it would be nice enough to eat outside. how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Thu Feb 20 19:55:58 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 19:55:58 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1392944158.27920.85943013.43DAB8EC@webmail.messagingengine.com> I was about to say "punting picnic" but I see you beat me to it. pfs On Thu, Feb 20, 2014, at 17:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > > Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > > preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > > that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > > this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a > punt. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 21 07:08:28 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:08:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > >> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > > this is just lunch we are talking about so far. Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it to be different each day. > of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > it would be nice enough to eat outside. We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan alternatives. > how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating nights of accommodation needed. Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Fri Feb 21 09:39:28 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:39:28 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: No dietary restrictions here - Prefer not to eat lunch out en masse. It was nice to be able to take a short walk once or twice. Also, if it's nice out, we can eat our sandwiches on the terrace. 4 nights stay makes sense. --elli On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:08 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > > > On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > > >> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > >> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > >> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > > > > this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it > to be different each day. > > > of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > > it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan > alternatives. > > > how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a > punt. > > For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks > and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. > > But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! > > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > nights of accommodation needed. > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From stadler at edirom.de Fri Feb 21 10:41:42 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:41:42 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> James, being new to Council please excuse some questions * I guess the next airport is London? * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about what route to take and how much time it will take? * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) Best Peter Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings : > On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> >>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) >> >> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it > to be different each day. > >> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps >> it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan > alternatives. > >> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. > > For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks > and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. > > But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! > > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > nights of accommodation needed. > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140221/de6e7f26/attachment-0001.bin From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Fri Feb 21 10:54:25 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:54:25 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> Message-ID: <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. (allegedly -- haven't tried it). You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) pfs On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: > James, > > being new to Council please excuse some questions > * I guess the next airport is London? > * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from > Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about > what route to take and how much time it will take? > * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? > > Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take > whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) > > Best > Peter > > Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings > : > > > On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > >> > >> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > >> > >>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > >>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > >>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > >> > >> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > > > Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it > > to be different each day. > > > >> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > >> it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > > > We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan > > alternatives. > > > >> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. > > > > For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks > > and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. > > > > But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! > > > > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > > nights of accommodation needed. > > > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > > > > > -James > > > > -- > > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > Email had 1 attachment: > + signature.asc > 1k (application/pgp-signature) -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Fri Feb 21 10:56:31 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 10:56:31 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1392998191.22519.86182093.43C39B46@webmail.messagingengine.com> http://airline.oxfordbus.co.uk/ pfs On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:54, Paul Schaffner wrote: > The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects > Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus > Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service > is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) > > Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 > and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into > Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. > If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. > > At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A > At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. > (allegedly -- haven't tried it). > > You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book > in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and > picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific > bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier > buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive > early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked > ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. > > I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. > > (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to > Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) > > pfs > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: > > James, > > > > being new to Council please excuse some questions > > * I guess the next airport is London? > > * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from > > Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about > > what route to take and how much time it will take? > > * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? > > > > Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take > > whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) > > > > Best > > Peter > > > > Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings > > : > > > > > On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >> > > >> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > >> > > >>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > > >>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > > >>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > > >> > > >> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > > > > > Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it > > > to be different each day. > > > > > >> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > > >> it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > > > > > We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan > > > alternatives. > > > > > >> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. > > > > > > For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks > > > and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. > > > > > > But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! > > > > > > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > > > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > > > nights of accommodation needed. > > > > > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > > > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > > > > > > > > -James > > > > > > -- > > > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > > > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > > -- > > > tei-council mailing list > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > Email had 1 attachment: > > + signature.asc > > 1k (application/pgp-signature) > -- > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 21 10:58:10 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 15:58:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <53077792.3060207@retired.ox.ac.uk> Just in case you are tempted -- think twice before flying into any London airport other than Heathrow if you're planning to visit Oxford! The other London airports (Gatwick, Luton, Stansted etc) are all on the other side of the Great Wen from here, and thus involve you in HOURS of bus travel, or complicated train routes. FWIW, there *is* a train from Gatwick to Oxford (via Reading) -- but it takes 2.5 hours in all. There is also a bus which takes over 3 hours! On 21/02/14 15:54, Paul Schaffner wrote: > The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects > Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus > Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service > is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) > > Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 > and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into > Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. > If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. > > At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A > At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. > (allegedly -- haven't tried it). > > You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book > in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and > picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific > bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier > buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive > early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked > ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. > > I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. > > (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to > Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) > > pfs > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: >> James, >> >> being new to Council please excuse some questions >> * I guess the next airport is London? >> * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from >> Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about >> what route to take and how much time it will take? >> * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? >> >> Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take >> whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings >> : >> >>> On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>>> >>>>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >>>>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >>>>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) >>>> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. >>> Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it >>> to be different each day. >>> >>>> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps >>>> it would be nice enough to eat outside. >>> We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan >>> alternatives. >>> >>>> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. >>> For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks >>> and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. >>> >>> But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! >>> >>> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >>> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >>> nights of accommodation needed. >>> >>> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >>> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. >>> >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- >>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> Email had 1 attachment: >> + signature.asc >> 1k (application/pgp-signature) From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 21 11:34:28 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 16:34:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> Message-ID: On 21 Feb 2014, at 15:41, Peter Stadler wrote: > being new to Council please excuse some questions > * I guess the next airport is London? or you could come by train all the way from Germany. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Fri Feb 21 11:35:18 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 11:35:18 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <1392998191.22519.86182093.43C39B46@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1392998191.22519.86182093.43C39B46@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <1393000518.458.86196653.3240E748@webmail.messagingengine.com> I might as well repeat this message from last time, just in case you *are* flying into Terminal 4. It relates to departing from Oxford, not arriving there, but I always like to have an exit plan. Just for future reference, to get to LHR Terminal Four via the Oxford "Airline" bus (which drops you at Terminal 5), the quickest way is to go directly to the lift opposite the dropoff point, take it down to Level 0 (zero), find bus stand 7, and take either the 482 Southall bus or the 490 Richmond bus to Terminal 4. They run frequently, and are free if being used as an interterminal shuttle. I only mention this because information on the ground is either completely lacking (at Terminal 5 itself), incomplete (as given by the clearly novice driver), or incorrect (as given by the Oxford Bus Company instructions posted at Gloucester Green -- which say to go stand 8, which is wrong, and don't say where stand 8 is, in any case, i.e. five floors below where you arrive)." Of course, it is possible that all of this has changed in the last six months! pfs On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:56, Paul Schaffner wrote: > http://airline.oxfordbus.co.uk/ > > pfs > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:54, Paul Schaffner wrote: > > The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects > > Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus > > Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service > > is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) > > > > Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 > > and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into > > Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. > > If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. > > > > At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A > > At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. > > (allegedly -- haven't tried it). > > > > You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book > > in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and > > picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific > > bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier > > buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive > > early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked > > ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. > > > > I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. > > > > (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to > > Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) > > > > pfs > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: > > > James, > > > > > > being new to Council please excuse some questions > > > * I guess the next airport is London? > > > * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from > > > Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about > > > what route to take and how much time it will take? > > > * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? > > > > > > Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take > > > whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) > > > > > > Best > > > Peter > > > > > > Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings > > > : > > > > > > > On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular > > > >>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever > > > >>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) > > > >> > > > >> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. > > > > > > > > Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it > > > > to be different each day. > > > > > > > >> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps > > > >> it would be nice enough to eat outside. > > > > > > > > We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan > > > > alternatives. > > > > > > > >> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. > > > > > > > > For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks > > > > and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. > > > > > > > > But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! > > > > > > > > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > > > > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > > > > nights of accommodation needed. > > > > > > > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > > > > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > > > > > > > > > > > -James > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > > > > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > > > -- > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > > > > -- > > > tei-council mailing list > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > Email had 1 attachment: > > > + signature.asc > > > 1k (application/pgp-signature) > > -- > > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > > > > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From stadler at edirom.de Fri Feb 21 11:38:11 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:38:11 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <1393000518.458.86196653.3240E748@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1392998191.22519.86182093.43C39B46@webmail.messagingengine.com> <1393000518.458.86196653.3240E748@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <17B28DBE-1E45-4CEA-87A6-7AF6D8F78AEF@edirom.de> Thanks for all this information! I feel prepared now leaving my continent and coming to the island ? Best Peter Am 21.02.2014 um 17:35 schrieb Paul Schaffner : > I might as well repeat this message from last time, just in case > you *are* flying into Terminal 4. It relates to departing from Oxford, > not arriving there, but I always like to have an exit plan. > > Just for future reference, to get to LHR Terminal Four via the Oxford > "Airline" bus (which drops you at Terminal 5), the quickest way is to > go directly to the lift opposite the dropoff point, take it down to > Level 0 (zero), find bus stand 7, and take either the 482 Southall bus > or the 490 Richmond bus to Terminal 4. They run frequently, and are > free if being used as an interterminal shuttle. > > I only mention this because information on the ground is either > completely lacking (at Terminal 5 itself), incomplete (as given by the > clearly novice driver), or incorrect (as given by the Oxford Bus > Company > instructions posted at Gloucester Green -- which say to go stand 8, > which is wrong, and don't say where stand 8 is, in any case, i.e. > five floors below where you arrive)." > > Of course, it is possible that all of this has changed in the last > six months! > > pfs > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:56, Paul Schaffner wrote: >> http://airline.oxfordbus.co.uk/ >> >> pfs >> >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:54, Paul Schaffner wrote: >>> The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects >>> Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus >>> Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service >>> is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) >>> >>> Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 >>> and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into >>> Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. >>> If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. >>> >>> At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A >>> At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. >>> (allegedly -- haven't tried it). >>> >>> You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book >>> in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and >>> picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific >>> bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier >>> buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive >>> early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked >>> ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. >>> >>> I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. >>> >>> (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to >>> Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) >>> >>> pfs >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>> James, >>>> >>>> being new to Council please excuse some questions >>>> * I guess the next airport is London? >>>> * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from >>>> Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about >>>> what route to take and how much time it will take? >>>> * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? >>>> >>>> Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take >>>> whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) >>>> >>>> Best >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings >>>> : >>>> >>>>> On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >>>>>>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >>>>>>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) >>>>>> >>>>>> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. >>>>> >>>>> Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it >>>>> to be different each day. >>>>> >>>>>> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps >>>>>> it would be nice enough to eat outside. >>>>> >>>>> We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan >>>>> alternatives. >>>>> >>>>>> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. >>>>> >>>>> For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks >>>>> and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. >>>>> >>>>> But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! >>>>> >>>>> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >>>>> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >>>>> nights of accommodation needed. >>>>> >>>>> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >>>>> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -James >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>>>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>>>> -- >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>> >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>> Email had 1 attachment: >>>> + signature.asc >>>> 1k (application/pgp-signature) >>> -- >>> Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service >>> PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- >> Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service >> PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ >> >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140221/7f687952/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Feb 21 11:49:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 08:49:03 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <5307837F.4080405@uvic.ca> A strong vote in favour of the Oxford Bus from me. It's great. > I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked > ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. Actually last time I got to the bus station a bit early and was able to travel on the earlier bus with Syd, and have a leisurely breakfast at the airport. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-21 07:54 AM, Paul Schaffner wrote: > The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects > Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus > Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service > is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) > > Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 > and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into > Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. > If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. > > At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A > At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. > (allegedly -- haven't tried it). > > You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book > in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and > picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific > bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier > buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive > early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked > ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. > > I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. > > (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to > Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) > > pfs > > > On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: >> James, >> >> being new to Council please excuse some questions >> * I guess the next airport is London? >> * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from >> Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about >> what route to take and how much time it will take? >> * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? >> >> Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take >> whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings >> : >> >>> On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> >>>> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>>> >>>>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >>>>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >>>>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) >>>> >>>> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. >>> >>> Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it >>> to be different each day. >>> >>>> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps >>>> it would be nice enough to eat outside. >>> >>> We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan >>> alternatives. >>> >>>> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. >>> >>> For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks >>> and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. >>> >>> But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! >>> >>> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >>> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >>> nights of accommodation needed. >>> >>> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >>> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. >>> >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- >>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> Email had 1 attachment: >> + signature.asc >> 1k (application/pgp-signature) From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 21 12:18:01 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:18:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> Message-ID: <53078A49.4050402@it.ox.ac.uk> On 21/02/14 15:41, Peter Stadler wrote: > James, > > being new to Council please excuse some questions >* I guess > the next airport is London? I would suggest flying into Heathrow, as others have said, but avoiding terminal 4. If at Terminal 1-3 you follow the underground walking route to the central bus station. If at terminal 5 you walk just outside to the buses there. I always try to go to/from terminal 5 myself. The "Oxford Airline" coach will take you to the last stop "Gloucester Green Bus Station" which is a really short walk from Rewley House. I'll put up some joining instructions and map nearer the date, since I have them from last time. ;-) > * There have been some stories > (last time) about bus transfer to/from Oxford. Could someone > who already did this journey give some hints about what route > to take and how much time it will take? As above, takes about 90 minutes depending on time of day. >* What time on > Wednesday evening could we leave? Wednesday after lunch we'll try to schedule the potentially less urgent and important things, and mop up anything we've put to one side during discussions. So potentially people could leave at lunchtime on that day if they really really need to (but then don't get a voice in those issues). > Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I > will take whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) Less of the 'old' thank you very much! -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 21 12:20:14 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 17:20:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Lunch question In-Reply-To: <5307837F.4080405@uvic.ca> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <25791125-10CA-4020-B454-9F21CA9B6562@edirom.de> <1392998065.21823.86178317.1D461F2B@webmail.messagingengine.com> <5307837F.4080405@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53078ACE.50504@it.ox.ac.uk> The Heathrow <--> Oxford bus also has wifi, just in case you want to finish off some of those tickets as well. ;-) -James On 21/02/14 16:49, Martin Holmes wrote: > A strong vote in favour of the Oxford Bus from me. It's great. > >> I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked >> ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. > > Actually last time I got to the bus station a bit early and was able to > travel on the earlier bus with Syd, and have a leisurely breakfast at > the airport. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-21 07:54 AM, Paul Schaffner wrote: >> The closest major airport is Heathrow. A good bus service connects >> Heathrow to Oxford, terminating at Oxford's Gloucester Green Bus >> Station (which is probably where you want to get off). THe service >> is run by the Oxford Bus Company (google it for details.) >> >> Heathrow is actually several airports: the bus stops at Terminal 5 >> and at Heathrow Central Bus Station (terminals 1&3). I fly into >> Terminal 4, so need to take the rail shuttle from T4 to Central. >> If you fly into T5 or T1/3, you'll have it a little easier. >> >> At Heathrow Central, it stops at stand 14A >> At Terminal 5 it stops at stand 10 on the arrivals concourse. >> (allegedly -- haven't tried it). >> >> You can pay the driver, or you can book in advance. If you book >> in advance, you'll need a printout of your voucher/receipt, and >> picture ID. Just show both to the driver. Booking is for a specific >> bus, but leaving from the airport, you can take later or earlier >> buses as well using the same booking, if you happen to arrive >> early or late. I believe that for departures from Oxford, the prebooked >> ticket is good only on the actual bus you booked. >> >> I'd recommend a period return ticket for the best fare. >> >> (There is also a bus, same company, same name, from Gatwick to >> Oxford, but I haven't taken that in a long time. ) >> >> pfs >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014, at 10:41, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> James, >>> >>> being new to Council please excuse some questions >>> * I guess the next airport is London? >>> * There have been some stories (last time) about bus transfer to/from >>> Oxford. Could someone who already did this journey give some hints about >>> what route to take and how much time it will take? >>> * What time on Wednesday evening could we leave? >>> >>> Concerning lunch: no dietary restrictions from my side and I will take >>> whatever the old chaps think is good for me ;-) >>> >>> Best >>> Peter >>> >>> Am 21.02.2014 um 13:08 schrieb James Cummings >>> : >>> >>>> On 20/02/14 22:11, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 20 Feb 2014, at 19:17, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Maybe going out one day could be fine, but I haven'y any particular >>>>>> preference and any dietary restriction . Of course I'll regret forever >>>>>> that I missed the dinner Chez Rahtz :) >>>>> >>>>> this is just lunch we are talking about so far. >>>> >>>> Yes. I'm moved by the idea of variety. So will try to arrange it >>>> to be different each day. >>>> >>>>> of course I?d be happy to host you all for an evening meal. perhaps >>>>> it would be nice enough to eat outside. >>>> >>>> We can't really know that until the day so would need to plan >>>> alternatives. >>>> >>>>> how about a picnic in the park by the river? heck, I?ll even lay on a punt. >>>> >>>> For dinner maybe, we could wander over to the university parks >>>> and I can provide blankets to sit on, etc. >>>> >>>> But only if we've completed a sufficient number of tickets! >>>> >>>> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >>>> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >>>> nights of accommodation needed. >>>> >>>> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >>>> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. >>>> >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> Email had 1 attachment: >>> + signature.asc >>> 1k (application/pgp-signature) -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 22 10:33:04 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:33:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] new release of oxygen TEI framework Message-ID: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B74D3C6@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> in case anyone cares, the latest oxygen tei framework release corrects that error that saw spurious lite and tite entries appear in list of templates -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 05:58:56 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:58:56 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? Message-ID: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> was fairly recently added to content models of etc, so as to permit inclusion of data from various authority files e.g. VIAF, ISNI etc. But some of these authority file records also contain a preferred URI which cannot be determined automatically from the authority record's identifier. It would be useful to use @ref (or even @key) on for this purpose. Before I add this as a FR, does anyone on Council have a better suggestion? From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 06:02:59 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:02:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1f0c6ac3-702e-4668-995d-83d0ef32343f@HUB06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> our examples have the URI as the _body_ of the , e.g. http://dx.doi.org/10.1000/123 so why is this not sufficient? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 06:07:59 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:07:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 24/02/14 11:02, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > our examples have the URI as the _body_ of the , e.g. > > http://dx.doi.org/10.1000/123 > > so why is this not sufficient? > -- > because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue (as I thought I said on my previous mail...) From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 06:28:35 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 11:28:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9f50f470-ebbb-409d-b466-7f7489fa0823@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 24 Feb 2014, at 11:07, Lou Burnard wrote: > because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue coo, thats well bonkers. one might say you should have two , one for the shelf mark in the BNF, another for the URI. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 11:21:24 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:21:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <9f50f470-ebbb-409d-b466-7f7489fa0823@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9f50f470-ebbb-409d-b466-7f7489fa0823@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530B7184.8040309@it.ox.ac.uk> On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > coo, thats well bonkers. > > one might say you should have two , one for the shelf > mark in the BNF, another for the URI. Am I understanding correctly that @ref on the would give information about the idno vocabulary/system/whatever and the content would be the ID number being provided? e.g. http://dx.doi.org/10.1000/123 Or would @ref be used for the idno as well when it happened to be a URI? -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 13:26:16 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:26:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 24 Feb 2014, at 11:07, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue > coo, thats well bonkers. > > one might say you should have two , one > for the shelf mark in the BNF, another for the URI. One did. But the client says no, that's not the way they see things at the BNF. The content of the is a URI leading to an entry in the authority file. That entry may have a a different "canonical" URI as its content. It's exactly analogous to @ref on From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 13:27:53 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 18:27:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B7184.8040309@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9f50f470-ebbb-409d-b466-7f7489fa0823@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B7184.8040309@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530B8F29.6020104@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 24/02/14 16:21, James Cummings wrote: > On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> coo, thats well bonkers. >> >> one might say you should have two , one for the shelf >> mark in the BNF, another for the URI. > Am I understanding correctly that @ref on the would give > information about the idno vocabulary/system/whatever and the > content would be the ID number being provided? > > e.g. > > ref="http://www.doi.org/hb.html">http://dx.doi.org/10.1000/123 > > Or would @ref be used for the idno as well when it happened to be > a URI? No, this is pretty comprehensively wrong. Clearly I am having trouble with the English language. Have a read of my previous response on this thread, and see if it makes a bit more sense. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Feb 24 13:30:08 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 10:30:08 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530B8FB0.5040105@uvic.ca> I'm OK with adding idno to att.canonical (although I really don't like @key spreading any further). But this use-case is going to have to be very carefully explained in the Guidelines, or else we'll get people doing this: Cheers, Martin On 14-02-24 10:26 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 24 Feb 2014, at 11:07, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>> because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue >> coo, thats well bonkers. >> >> one might say you should have two , one >> for the shelf mark in the BNF, another for the URI. > > One did. But the client says no, that's not the way they see things at > the BNF. > > The content of the is a URI leading to an entry in the authority > file. That entry may have a a different "canonical" URI as its content. > It's exactly analogous to @ref on > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 24 14:24:47 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 19:24:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <07dcf2e6-0c82-4645-96a7-85db066e30bb@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 24 Feb 2014, at 18:26, Lou Burnard wrote: > > One did. But the client says no, that's not the way they see things at the BNF. > > The content of the is a URI leading to an entry in the authority file. That entry may have a a different "canonical" URI as its content. what are you trying to model in TEI, then? the authority file? > It's exactly analogous to @ref on > you have to have a pretty fevered imagination to claim that :-} I guess I suffer from the same problem with the language as James. I just can?t understand what you?re trying to do. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Mon Feb 24 16:36:18 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 16:36:18 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5AD7DB01-8E4C-49AD-AE25-AD575ABD7FAC@gmail.com> So the has an identifier, and there?s also a separate authority file containing URI identifiers, meaning you want to reference the correct URI identifier via a URL like http://example.com/person_authority.xml#ABCD? And maybe the actual ID is http://example.com/person/1234? So you want ABCD? Is that right? Essentially you have an identifier that has a canonical URI associated with it in a separate authority file, but you can?t put the latter URI in an idno? But why not? On Feb 24, 2014, at 13:26 , Lou Burnard wrote: > On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 24 Feb 2014, at 11:07, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>> because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue >> coo, thats well bonkers. >> >> one might say you should have two , one >> for the shelf mark in the BNF, another for the URI. > > One did. But the client says no, that's not the way they see things at > the BNF. > > The content of the is a URI leading to an entry in the authority > file. That entry may have a a different "canonical" URI as its content. > It's exactly analogous to @ref on > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 25 05:14:57 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:14:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Accommodation In-Reply-To: <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> On 21/02/14 12:08, James Cummings wrote: > IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this > doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating > nights of accommodation needed. > > Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary > requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. So far only Peter and Martin appear to need accommodation. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Feb 25 06:37:58 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:37:58 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Accommodation In-Reply-To: <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry James, forgot to add myself to the list of those who need accomodation... Fabio 2014-02-25 11:14 GMT+01:00 James Cummings : > On 21/02/14 12:08, James Cummings wrote: >> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >> nights of accommodation needed. >> >> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. > > So far only Peter and Martin appear to need accommodation. > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 25 06:42:42 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:42:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Accommodation In-Reply-To: References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530C81B2.8050802@it.ox.ac.uk> On 25/02/14 11:37, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Sorry James, forgot to add myself to the list of those who need accomodation... There is still time, do it now! :-) -James > > Fabio > > 2014-02-25 11:14 GMT+01:00 James Cummings : >> On 21/02/14 12:08, James Cummings wrote: >>> IMPORTANT: For those needing accommodation please fill in this >>> doodle poll http://doodle.com/unu8wz9tuks8wt4w#table indicating >>> nights of accommodation needed. >>> >>> Also reminder: If you have any non-meaty non-omnivorous dietary >>> requirements, email me, preferably before Monday. >> >> So far only Peter and Martin appear to need accommodation. >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From s.bauman at neu.edu Tue Feb 25 06:58:40 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 06:58:40 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Accommodation In-Reply-To: <530C81B2.8050802@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C81B2.8050802@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <21260.34160.142049.930695@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I filled out the poll, James, but I will say it seems a bit silly for you to worry a lot about it. I'd just assume everyone who is not from Oxford needs a room Sun, Mon, Tue, and Wed nights. There will be one or two who have friends in Oxford or are leaving a day early or staying a day late, but those tweaks can be made later if needed, no? > There is still time, do it now! :-) From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Feb 25 07:11:01 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 12:11:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Oxford Face to Face: 30 June - 3 July: Accommodation In-Reply-To: <21260.34160.142049.930695@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <53062B00.2060706@it.ox.ac.uk> <21254.16217.179766.554218@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B745E31@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530741BC.1000808@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C6D21.5030806@it.ox.ac.uk> <530C81B2.8050802@it.ox.ac.uk> <21260.34160.142049.930695@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <530C8855.3030808@it.ox.ac.uk> On 25/02/14 11:58, Syd Bauman wrote: > I filled out the poll, James, but I will say it seems a bit silly for > you to worry a lot about it. I'd just assume everyone who is not from > Oxford needs a room Sun, Mon, Tue, and Wed nights. There will be one > or two who have friends in Oxford or are leaving a day early or > staying a day late, but those tweaks can be made later if needed, no? Sadly, no. Once I submit the purchase order it is incredibly difficult to modify what nights are needed. I know it seems like I'm being pedantic and fussy. At the last meeting one council member left early which meant the TEI-C paid for their room even though they weren't using it. Only check those nights you really need. ;-) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Feb 25 15:07:05 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:07:05 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: <5AD7DB01-8E4C-49AD-AE25-AD575ABD7FAC@gmail.com> References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5AD7DB01-8E4C-49AD-AE25-AD575ABD7FAC@gmail.com> Message-ID: two comments - if it's a client issue, can't it be a customization, adding to att. canonical? I much prefer the recommendation to use two s. Furthermore, but not requested by a user at the moment, a suggestion Syd just made (who is sitting next to me working on his bug assignments diligently) to allow @subtype as well, so there can be ? ? More use cases to help us generalize it? --elli On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > So the has an identifier, and there?s also a separate authority > file containing URI identifiers, meaning you want to reference the correct > URI identifier via a URL like http://example.com/person_authority.xml#ABCD? > And maybe the actual ID is http://example.com/person/1234? So you want > ABCD? > > Is that right? Essentially you have an identifier that has a canonical URI > associated with it in a separate authority file, but you can?t put the > latter URI in an idno? > > But why not? > > > On Feb 24, 2014, at 13:26 , Lou Burnard > wrote: > > > On 24/02/14 11:28, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > >> On 24 Feb 2014, at 11:07, Lou Burnard > wrote: > >> > >>> because some authory files have ids and also URIs and they are > sometimes different, e.g. the BNF catalogue > >> coo, thats well bonkers. > >> > >> one might say you should have two , one > >> for the shelf mark in the BNF, another for the URI. > > > > One did. But the client says no, that's not the way they see things at > > the BNF. > > > > The content of the is a URI leading to an entry in the authority > > file. That entry may have a a different "canonical" URI as its content. > > It's exactly analogous to @ref on > > > > > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Feb 25 17:06:05 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 17:06:05 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] request for feedback on fr300 Message-ID: Hi all: I've posted some summary and background info to feature request 300, and would like some feedback from you in order to proceed: https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/300/ If you all think it's obvious, we can go ahead and decide on a solution. Then can decide who should implement depending on how complicated it is. I can also send out to TEI-L if you think it's a good idea. Or we can hold until the f2f. (least attractive option) tx. --elli From mailer at doodle.com Wed Feb 26 10:38:19 2014 From: mailer at doodle.com (Hugh Cayless (via Doodle)) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:38:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F Message-ID: <1037665320.212229.1393429099039.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker1> Hi TEI Council, Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". Hugh Cayless says: As James recommended, and especially because we're unable to get everyone to the Spring F2F, I'm going ahead to try and nail down dates for the Fall. Please fill out the poll at your earliest convenience. Hugh Participate now https://doodle.com/ty76a842k8qcf5gq?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more about how Doodle works. (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." ---- Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 26 11:05:30 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 08:05:30 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F In-Reply-To: <1037665320.212229.1393429099039.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker1> References: <1037665320.212229.1393429099039.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker1> Message-ID: <530E10CA.1000604@uvic.ca> Hi Hugh, Before anyone else answers: could you make it a Yes/No/Maybe poll? There are dates I can manage but I'd rather not (for instance, flying the day after Thanksgiving Weekend is most likely going to be horrible, but I'll do it if I have to). Cheers, Martin On 14-02-26 07:38 AM, Hugh Cayless (via Doodle) wrote: > Hi TEI Council, > > Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the > Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". > > Hugh Cayless says: > As James recommended, and especially because we're unable to get > everyone to the Spring F2F, I'm going ahead to try and nail down dates > for the Fall. Please fill out the poll at your earliest convenience. > > Hugh > > Participate now > https://doodle.com/ty76a842k8qcf5gq?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn > > What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to > find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more > about how Doodle works. > (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you > to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." > > ---- > > Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich > From mailer at doodle.com Wed Feb 26 11:20:16 2014 From: mailer at doodle.com (Hugh Cayless (via Doodle)) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 17:20:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F Message-ID: <66419331.18326.1393431616663.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker2> Hi there, Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". Hugh Cayless says: Trying again. This time with maybe option enabled. Thanks Martin! Participate now https://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more about how Doodle works. (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." ---- Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 11:22:16 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:22:16 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F In-Reply-To: <530E10CA.1000604@uvic.ca> References: <1037665320.212229.1393429099039.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker1> <530E10CA.1000604@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Good thought (and I meant to do it but didn?t). I had to nuke and re-create the poll, so you?ll all get another annoying invite! Thanks Martin! Hugh On Feb 26, 2014, at 11:05 , Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi Hugh, > > Before anyone else answers: could you make it a Yes/No/Maybe poll? There > are dates I can manage but I'd rather not (for instance, flying the day > after Thanksgiving Weekend is most likely going to be horrible, but I'll > do it if I have to). > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-26 07:38 AM, Hugh Cayless (via Doodle) wrote: >> Hi TEI Council, >> >> Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the >> Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". >> >> Hugh Cayless says: >> As James recommended, and especially because we're unable to get >> everyone to the Spring F2F, I'm going ahead to try and nail down dates >> for the Fall. Please fill out the poll at your earliest convenience. >> >> Hugh >> >> Participate now >> https://doodle.com/ty76a842k8qcf5gq?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn >> >> What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to >> find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more >> about how Doodle works. >> (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you >> to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." >> >> ---- >> >> Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 26 11:22:50 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:22:50 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F In-Reply-To: <66419331.18326.1393431616663.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker2> References: <66419331.18326.1393431616663.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker2> Message-ID: <530E14DA.1000207@it.ox.ac.uk> I assume that first option is "October 15-17" (rather than October 15-57!) ;-) Off to fill it out! -James On 26/02/14 16:20, Hugh Cayless (via Doodle) wrote: > Hi there, > > Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the > Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". > > Hugh Cayless says: > Trying again. This time with maybe option enabled. Thanks Martin! > > Participate now > https://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn > > What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to > find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more > about how Doodle works. > (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you > to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." > > ---- > > Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Feb 26 11:49:59 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:49:59 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Council Fall F2F In-Reply-To: <530E14DA.1000207@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <66419331.18326.1393431616663.POLL_INVITECONTACT_PARTICIPANT_INVITATION.doodle@worker2> <530E14DA.1000207@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <323172A2-E2DE-4003-A40A-6F7AF7A38B37@gmail.com> Fixed it, but can you and Sebastian go back and re-check that date? Thanks, Hugh On Feb 26, 2014, at 11:22 , James Cummings wrote: > > I assume that first option is "October 15-17" (rather than > October 15-57!) > > ;-) > > Off to fill it out! > > -James > > > On 26/02/14 16:20, Hugh Cayless (via Doodle) wrote: >> Hi there, >> >> Hugh Cayless (philomousos at gmail.com) invites you to participate in the >> Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F". >> >> Hugh Cayless says: >> Trying again. This time with maybe option enabled. Thanks Martin! >> >> Participate now >> https://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc?tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation&tlink=pollbtn >> >> What is Doodle? Doodle is a web service that helps Hugh Cayless to >> find a suitable date for meeting with a group of people. Learn more >> about how Doodle works. >> (https://doodle.com/main.html?tlink=checkOutLink&tmail=poll_invitecontact_participant_invitation) >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> You have received this e-mail because "Hugh Cayless" has invited you >> to participate in the Doodle poll "TEI Council Fall F2F." >> >> ---- >> >> Doodle AG, Werdstrasse 21, 8021 Z?rich >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 26 14:11:34 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:11:34 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element Message-ID: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> Hi all, I'm trying to do the following: 1. Delete @sameAs (among others) from att.global.linking; but 2. Reinstate it on the element. I thought this would be the way to do it: [...] But the @sameAs attribute doesn't reappear on . I must be missing something. Any ideas? is a bit under-documented at the moment, with no mentions in the prose of the Guidelines other than its listing in spec lists, and only one example, which is a bare element with no context. If I can get this working, I'll turn it into a proposed new bit for the Guidelines with a full example, since it's a real use-case. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 26 14:21:50 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:21:50 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines Message-ID: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> Can others confirm they see the same behaviour here? I go to: which looks fine. There are two links to , one in big type at the top of the page, and one in little type just above the example. I click on the little one, and it takes me to this URL: Note the "und" in the language slot; this results from the example being: which of course makes sense -- it's of undeterminate language because it has no text in it at all, just some attribute values -- but since there's no "undeterminate language" version of the Guidelines, the link is broken. It seems to me that any exemplum which is "und" should link to the language version which is current in the rendered page on which the link appears (or failing that, if it's too hard, to the English version. The "und" link is broken, which leads to a second problem: ------------ A system error reading a resource occured! Server error 404 Not Found The requested resource "/cms/error_docs/not_found.html" was not found on the server. ... Apart from the spelling error, this message is telling us that the "not found" error page was not found. Since the underlying system is not under our control, should we attempt to put a nicely-formatted and properly-spelled 404 page into the CMS at the location the server is searching for it? Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 26 16:09:24 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 21:09:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> If you delete it from the class, you can't then sneak it back in again. Deletion trumps all other specifications. Like my teeth, once they're gone, they're gone. You have to define a completely new attribute on with an attDef mode="add". If it was an element, it would have to be in your namespace, but (as we discussed a few weeks ago) all TEI attributes are in the null namespace, so there;s nothing to stop you adding this one in to the same nonexistent place. The reason is not very well documented is that neither Sebastian nor I can ever remember what it's actually for. On 26/02/14 19:11, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm trying to do the following: > > 1. Delete @sameAs (among others) from att.global.linking; but > > 2. Reinstate it on the element. > > I thought this would be the way to do it: > > mode="change"> > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > But the @sameAs attribute doesn't reappear on . I must be > missing something. Any ideas? > > is a bit under-documented at the moment, with no mentions in > the prose of the Guidelines other than its listing in spec lists, and > only one example, which is a bare element with no context. If I can get > this working, I'll turn it into a proposed new bit for the Guidelines > with a full example, since it's a real use-case. > > Cheers, > Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 26 16:24:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:24:03 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530E5B73.2070008@uvic.ca> Fair enough. I'll have to introduce my own impersonation of @sameAs (perhaps it's the sameAs the TEI attribute, perhaps not). Now I can't imagine what is for either. Perhaps it could be used to add an attribute from a class to an element which is not a member of that class? Cheers, Martin On 14-02-26 01:09 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > If you delete it from the class, you can't then sneak it back in again. > Deletion trumps all other specifications. Like my teeth, once they're > gone, they're gone. > > You have to define a completely new attribute on with an > attDef mode="add". If it was an element, it would have to be in your > namespace, but (as we discussed a few weeks ago) all TEI attributes are > in the null namespace, so there;s nothing to stop you adding this one in > to the same nonexistent place. > > The reason is not very well documented is that neither > Sebastian nor I can ever remember what it's actually for. > > > > On 26/02/14 19:11, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm trying to do the following: >> >> 1. Delete @sameAs (among others) from att.global.linking; but >> >> 2. Reinstate it on the element. >> >> I thought this would be the way to do it: >> >> > mode="change"> >> >> >> >> >> >> [...] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But the @sameAs attribute doesn't reappear on . I must be >> missing something. Any ideas? >> >> is a bit under-documented at the moment, with no mentions in >> the prose of the Guidelines other than its listing in spec lists, and >> only one example, which is a bare element with no context. If I can get >> this working, I'll turn it into a proposed new bit for the Guidelines >> with a full example, since it's a real use-case. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 26 18:42:21 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:42:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:11, Martin Holmes wrote: > > 1. Delete @sameAs (among others) from att.global.linking; but > > 2. Reinstate it on the element. > > I thought this would be the way to do it: > > mode="change"> > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > you?re being bitten by order of evaluation. you delete @sameAs from the class, then refer to it later. By the time comes along, sameAs is dead and buried. there isn?t a right answer here. If we reverse the order of evaluation, then when you (e.g.) change the datatype of @sameAs instead of deleting it, you?ll be upset cos your copy on is the original, not the changed one. I don?t have an answer to this. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 26 18:42:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 23:42:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:21, Martin Holmes wrote: > Can others confirm they see the same behaviour here? I go to: > > > > which looks fine. There are two links to , one in big type at > the top of the page, and one in little type just above the example. I > click on the little one, and it takes me to this URL: > > > > Note the "und" in the language slot; this results from the example being: I remember this problem (caused by the language on the example), and fixed it, so I assume the version on Jenkins is OK? i had vaguely thought this was before the release, but obviously not. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Feb 26 18:59:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 15:59:16 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> Yes, fixed in Jenkins -- sorry, I didn't think to check. The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a page which matches the site design? Cheers, Martin On 14-02-26 03:42 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:21, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Can others confirm they see the same behaviour here? I go to: >> >> >> >> which looks fine. There are two links to , one in big type at >> the top of the page, and one in little type just above the example. I >> click on the little one, and it takes me to this URL: >> >> >> >> Note the "und" in the language slot; this results from the example being: > > I remember this problem (caused by the language on the example), and fixed it, > so I assume the version on Jenkins is OK? > > i had vaguely thought this was before the release, but obviously not. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 05:02:42 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:02:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7c184c74-6155-497f-9fea-229da0113e0d@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 26 Feb 2014, at 21:09, Lou Burnard wrote: > > The reason is not very well documented is that neither > Sebastian nor I can ever remember what it's actually for. > It is used extensively internally to get at components of attribute classes. When

asks to delete the @rend attribute, we can?t any longer just point at ?att.global?, we have to break that down into separate pointers to the bits within "att. global" that

has decided to keep. That?s what does - more granular access to the parts of an attribute class. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 06:43:26 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:43:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: > The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a page which matches the site design? i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. it comes up much too readily?. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 08:21:53 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:21:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <1524EA73-6677-4F88-859C-F9F81508EB1E@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1524EA73-6677-4F88-859C-F9F81508EB1E@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530F3BF1.5070401@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 27/02/14 10:02, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 26 Feb 2014, at 21:09, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> The reason is not very well documented is that neither >> Sebastian nor I can ever remember what it's actually for. >> > It is used extensively internally to get at components of attribute classes. Fine, but I have to point to the oxymoron of "extensively internally" -- unless I missed it, we are still waiting for a definitive statement about the "internal" behaviour of an ODD processor. Can we think of a user-facing application for ? is a useful way of pulling elements into a schema irrespective of their class membership, but I don't think the same trick will work for . From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 27 08:40:28 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:40:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Deleting an attribute from its class, but reinstating it on an element In-Reply-To: <530F3BF1.5070401@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3C66.7030505@uvic.ca> <530E5804.804@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1524EA73-6677-4F88-859C-F9F81508EB1E@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F3BF1.5070401@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <40d95ee5-bf27-4d07-8bb6-bd12e8a352eb@HUB01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 27 Feb 2014, at 13:21, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>> The reason is not very well documented is that neither >>> Sebastian nor I can ever remember what it's actually for. >>> >> It is used extensively internally to get at components of attribute classes. > > Fine, but I have to point to the oxymoron of "extensively internally" -- unless I missed it, we are still waiting for a definitive statement about the "internal" behaviour of an ODD processor. ok, think instead that is used extensively if you save the results of an ODD customisation as a new ODD, for chaining purposes. > Can we think of a user-facing application for ? is a useful way of pulling elements into a schema irrespective of their class membership, no, thats not true. irrespective of their _module_ membership. very different thing! > but I don't think the same trick will work for . why not? thats kind of what it does. whether should trigger an implicit , I am unsure. is that what you are suggesting? How was your ODD class in France? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 27 08:44:35 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 05:44:35 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that area, we'll have to. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: > > >> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a page which matches the site design? > > > i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. it comes up much too readily?. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Feb 27 09:32:16 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:32:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> Message-ID: I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the variables are defined, either. If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. David On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access > above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with > this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that > area, we'll have to. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >> >>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a page which matches the site design? >> >> >> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. it comes up much too readily?. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 27 12:11:37 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:11:37 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? The only thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not found is to echo back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't very useful anyway, since it's in your browser address bar. A dead-simple HTML page based on our regular templates might work as a drop-in replacement. I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: > I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've > never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. > > In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using > /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that > consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, > so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not > going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the > variables are defined, either. > > If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last > day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. > > David > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with >> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >> area, we'll have to. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> >>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>> >>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the >>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you >>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>> page which matches the site design? >>> >>> >>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. >>> it comes up much too readily?. >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Feb 27 12:31:07 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 12:31:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> Message-ID: I think that could be done by changing the OpenCMS type of the file from "JSP" to "text file". The styling would need to be done by manually copy-pasting from the generated HTML for a site page, because it wouldn't inherit any of the OpenCMS templates. But it wouldn't be hard to create something nicer than the existing one. David On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? The only > thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not found is to echo > back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't very useful anyway, > since it's in your browser address bar. A dead-simple HTML page based on our > regular templates might work as a drop-in replacement. > > I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: >> I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've >> never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. >> >> In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using >> /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that >> consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, >> so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not >> going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the >> variables are defined, either. >> >> If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last >> day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. >> >> David >> >> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >>> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with >>> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >>> area, we'll have to. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Martin >>> >>> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> >>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the >>>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you >>>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>>> page which matches the site design? >>>> >>>> >>>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. >>>> it comes up much too readily?. >>>> -- >>>> Sebastian Rahtz >>>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>>> University of Oxford IT Services >>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>>> >>>> N?o sou nada. >>>> Nunca serei nada. >>>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 27 13:18:30 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:18:30 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> Try the attached page and see what it looks like. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-27 09:31 AM, David Sewell wrote: > I think that could be done by changing the OpenCMS type of the file from > "JSP" to "text file". The styling would need to be done by manually > copy-pasting from the generated HTML for a site page, because it > wouldn't inherit any of the OpenCMS templates. But it wouldn't be hard > to create something nicer than the existing one. > > David > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? >> The only thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not >> found is to echo back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't >> very useful anyway, since it's in your browser address bar. A >> dead-simple HTML page based on our regular templates might work as a >> drop-in replacement. >> >> I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: >>> I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've >>> never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. >>> >>> In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using >>> /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that >>> consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, >>> so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not >>> going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the >>> variables are defined, either. >>> >>> If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last >>> day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>>> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >>>> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with >>>> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >>>> area, we'll have to. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the >>>>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you >>>>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>>>> page which matches the site design? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. >>>>> it comes up much too readily?. >>>>> -- >>>>> Sebastian Rahtz >>>>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>>>> University of Oxford IT Services >>>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>>>> >>>>> N?o sou nada. >>>>> Nunca serei nada. >>>>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>>>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140227/bd066ab0/attachment.html From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Feb 27 13:27:12 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:27:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> Message-ID: That ought to work... except... when I go in to make changes to the page "handle404.html", the same changes are applied to "handle500.html". They are linked files in OpenCMS (and this is something I haven't dealt with before). We probably wouldn't want "Page not found" for a true 500-level server error. So we would need to create a separate HTML page for server errors. I think that would work. Can it wait for 10 days, however, unless someone else wants to muck about in Open CMS? David On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > Try the attached page and see what it looks like. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-27 09:31 AM, David Sewell wrote: >> I think that could be done by changing the OpenCMS type of the file from >> "JSP" to "text file". The styling would need to be done by manually >> copy-pasting from the generated HTML for a site page, because it >> wouldn't inherit any of the OpenCMS templates. But it wouldn't be hard >> to create something nicer than the existing one. >> >> David >> >> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? >>> The only thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not >>> found is to echo back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't >>> very useful anyway, since it's in your browser address bar. A >>> dead-simple HTML page based on our regular templates might work as a >>> drop-in replacement. >>> >>> I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Martin >>> >>> On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: >>>> I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've >>>> never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. >>>> >>>> In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using >>>> /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that >>>> consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, >>>> so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not >>>> going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the >>>> variables are defined, either. >>>> >>>> If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last >>>> day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >>>>> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with >>>>> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >>>>> area, we'll have to. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>>>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the >>>>>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you >>>>>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>>>>> page which matches the site design? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. >>>>>> it comes up much too readily?. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sebastian Rahtz >>>>>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>>>>> University of Oxford IT Services >>>>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>>>>> >>>>>> N?o sou nada. >>>>>> Nunca serei nada. >>>>>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>>>>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>> >>> >> > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140227/fae5ef88/attachment-0001.html From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Feb 27 13:37:51 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 13:37:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Actually, there's another problem with this approach. The current 404 page, ugly as it is, is coded so that it properly sends an HTTP 404 response header. If it is replaced with a static HTML page, I believe that's going to send a 200 response header ("OK"). The human won't know/care, but anything automated that reaches a bad link won't know it's bad. Given the underpinnings of OpenCMS, it's probably necessary to stick with the JSP coding of the error pages. On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > Try the attached page and see what it looks like. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-02-27 09:31 AM, David Sewell wrote: >> I think that could be done by changing the OpenCMS type of the file from >> "JSP" to "text file". The styling would need to be done by manually >> copy-pasting from the generated HTML for a site page, because it >> wouldn't inherit any of the OpenCMS templates. But it wouldn't be hard >> to create something nicer than the existing one. >> >> David >> >> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? >>> The only thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not >>> found is to echo back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't >>> very useful anyway, since it's in your browser address bar. A >>> dead-simple HTML page based on our regular templates might work as a >>> drop-in replacement. >>> >>> I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Martin >>> >>> On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: >>>> I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've >>>> never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. >>>> >>>> In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using >>>> /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that >>>> consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, >>>> so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior it's not >>>> going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the >>>> variables are defined, either. >>>> >>>> If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last >>>> day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my plate. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >>>>> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian with >>>>> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >>>>> area, we'll have to. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>>>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in the >>>>>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could you >>>>>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>>>>> page which matches the site design? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and disorganised. >>>>>> it comes up much too readily?. >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sebastian Rahtz >>>>>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>>>>> University of Oxford IT Services >>>>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>>>>> >>>>>> N?o sou nada. >>>>>> Nunca serei nada. >>>>>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>>>>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>> >>> >> > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 400314, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4314 USA Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Feb 27 14:03:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 11:03:46 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Linking issue in the Guidelines In-Reply-To: References: <530E3ECE.1030207@uvic.ca> <7ABC5A9F-798A-4FBF-837D-5B3CFD56D978@it.ox.ac.uk> <530E7FD4.5040308@uvic.ca> <9A5A0903-FC7D-4966-9849-7AE11ACB12C2@it.ox.ac.uk> <530F4143.7090402@uvic.ca> <530F71C9.2070705@uvic.ca> <530F8176.90501@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <530F8C12.9060107@uvic.ca> Understood. Let's leave it until you get back, then. I don't think any of us have access to that area of OpenCMS, so we can't hack away at it ourselves, but between us we might be able to hack the JSP page to make it look like a TEI page. We definitely need the 404 http response. Cheers, Martin On 14-02-27 10:37 AM, David Sewell wrote: > Actually, there's another problem with this approach. > > The current 404 page, ugly as it is, is coded so that it properly sends > an HTTP 404 response header. If it is replaced with a static HTML page, > I believe that's going to send a 200 response header ("OK"). The human > won't know/care, but anything automated that reaches a bad link won't > know it's bad. > > Given the underpinnings of OpenCMS, it's probably necessary to stick > with the JSP coding of the error pages. > > > On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Try the attached page and see what it looks like. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-02-27 09:31 AM, David Sewell wrote: >>> I think that could be done by changing the OpenCMS type of the file from >>> "JSP" to "text file". The styling would need to be done by manually >>> copy-pasting from the generated HTML for a site page, because it >>> wouldn't inherit any of the OpenCMS templates. But it wouldn't be hard >>> to create something nicer than the existing one. >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>>> I wonder if we could just replace that JSP page with a static page? >>>> The only thing a 404 page tells you other than that something's not >>>> found is to echo back at you the URL you tried to access, which isn't >>>> very useful anyway, since it's in your browser address bar. A >>>> dead-simple HTML page based on our regular templates might work as a >>>> drop-in replacement. >>>> >>>> I could be misunderstanding how the JSP calls work, though. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 14-02-27 06:32 AM, David Sewell wrote: >>>>> I have just taken a quick look to see what I can see in the CMS. I've >>>>> never attempted to do anything with those standard error templates. >>>>> >>>>> In this case it looks like OpenCMS is using >>>>> /system/handler/handle404.html. Unfortunately, that is a JSP page that >>>>> consists pretty much entirely of calls to variables defined elsewhere, >>>>> so unless there's some modular way of changing the 404 behavior >>>>> it's not >>>>> going to be trivially easy to change. I can't figure out where the >>>>> variables are defined, either. >>>>> >>>>> If I have time later today I'll poke around more, but this is my last >>>>> day in the office before a week's vacation so I have a lot on my >>>>> plate. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 27 Feb 2014, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Among those of us who have access to the CMS, does anyone have access >>>>>> above /sites/default/? That's all I can see. I hate to bother Ian >>>>>> with >>>>>> this sort of thing, but if none of us can actually edit outside that >>>>>> area, we'll have to. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Martin >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14-02-27 03:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 23:59, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The question on whether the 404 page could be fixed up a bit still >>>>>>>> stands, though -- I don't have access high enough up the tree in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> CMS to see where it's coming from, but if one of you does, could >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> fix the spelling error ("occured")? And could we also think about a >>>>>>>> page which matches the site design? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> i agree, that 404 page makes us look unprofessional and >>>>>>> disorganised. >>>>>>> it comes up much too readily?. >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Sebastian Rahtz >>>>>>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>>>>>> University of Oxford IT Services >>>>>>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> N?o sou nada. >>>>>>> Nunca serei nada. >>>>>>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>>>>>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > From dsewell at virginia.edu Sun Mar 2 18:29:18 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 15:29:18 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool References: <1889BB8A-723D-4CBD-8887-BFF5BC49F208@uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: Council, Is the copyright status of the screenshots this author wants to use such that I can just convey permission, or will Council or Board need to discuss? Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: > From: Susanne Kurz > Date: March 2, 2014 at 3:50:27 AM PST > To: web at tei-c.org > Subject: using screenshots of roma tool > > Dear TEI web-team, > > I`m the author of a textbook with subject Digital Humanities, should be published in the near future. There is a main chapter deals with TEI in general and the ROMA tool in special. For explanation I`d like to use the screenshots you published on http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/use_roma.xml. > > Is it possible to use the screenshots? If yes, give me your consent to use them in my book, please. > > Thank you very much. > > Kind regards from Cologne, Germany, > > Susanne Kurz > > ***************************************************** > > University at Cologne > Prof. Dr. M. Thaller > > Historisch-Kulturwissenschaftliche Informationsverarbeitung > Albertus-Magnus-Platz > 50923 K?ln > > susanne.kurz at uni-koeln.de > http://www.hki.uni-koeln.de/node/47 > > www.hki.uni-koeln.de > > > > From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 2 18:53:05 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 23:53:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool In-Reply-To: References: <1889BB8A-723D-4CBD-8887-BFF5BC49F208@uni-koeln.de>, Message-ID: Given we dual license all outputs as BSD 2Clause or CC+by I can't see why we would object. I'd also be willing to read the draft chapter and comment if they want. James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: David Sewell Date:2014/03/02 23:30 (GMT+00:00) To: TEI Council Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool Council, Is the copyright status of the screenshots this author wants to use such that I can just convey permission, or will Council or Board need to discuss? Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: > From: Susanne Kurz > Date: March 2, 2014 at 3:50:27 AM PST > To: web at tei-c.org > Subject: using screenshots of roma tool > > Dear TEI web-team, > > I`m the author of a textbook with subject Digital Humanities, should be published in the near future. There is a main chapter deals with TEI in general and the ROMA tool in special. For explanation I`d like to use the screenshots you published on http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/use_roma.xml. > > Is it possible to use the screenshots? If yes, give me your consent to use them in my book, please. > > Thank you very much. > > Kind regards from Cologne, Germany, > > Susanne Kurz > > ***************************************************** > > University at Cologne > Prof. Dr. M. Thaller > > Historisch-Kulturwissenschaftliche Informationsverarbeitung > Albertus-Magnus-Platz > 50923 K?ln > > susanne.kurz at uni-koeln.de > http://www.hki.uni-koeln.de/node/47 > > www.hki.uni-koeln.de > > > > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Mar 3 03:57:14 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:57:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool In-Reply-To: References: <1889BB8A-723D-4CBD-8887-BFF5BC49F208@uni-koeln.de>, , Message-ID: <81291b4c-d2e2-48c7-91ce-60532526c865@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Why doesn't she just make her own screenshots? But certainly it would be very strange to deny permission! I am more worried by a book talking about Roma, when we want to get rid of it. Sebastian Carved in stone on my iPad > From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 3 09:49:44 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 06:49:44 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool In-Reply-To: References: <1889BB8A-723D-4CBD-8887-BFF5BC49F208@uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: James, Then can you respond to Susanne and maybe convey Sebastian's concerns about Roma? Sent from my iPhone, pardon brevity > On Mar 2, 2014, at 3:53 PM, James Cummings wrote: > > Given we dual license all outputs as BSD 2Clause or CC+by I can't see why we would object. > > I'd also be willing to read the draft chapter and comment if they want. > > James > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: David Sewell > Date:2014/03/02 23:30 (GMT+00:00) > To: TEI Council > Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool > > Council, > > Is the copyright status of the screenshots this author wants to use such that I can just convey permission, or will Council or Board need to discuss? > > Sent from my iPad > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: Susanne Kurz > > Date: March 2, 2014 at 3:50:27 AM PST > > To: web at tei-c.org > > Subject: using screenshots of roma tool > > > > Dear TEI web-team, > > > > I`m the author of a textbook with subject Digital Humanities, should be published in the near future. There is a main chapter deals with TEI in general and the ROMA tool in special. For explanation I`d like to use the screenshots you published on http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/use_roma.xml. > > > > Is it possible to use the screenshots? If yes, give me your consent to use them in my book, please. > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > Kind regards from Cologne, Germany, > > > > Susanne Kurz > > > > ***************************************************** > > > > University at Cologne > > Prof. Dr. M. Thaller > > > > Historisch-Kulturwissenschaftliche Informationsverarbeitung > > Albertus-Magnus-Platz > > 50923 K?ln > > > > susanne.kurz at uni-koeln.de > > http://www.hki.uni-koeln.de/node/47 > > > > www.hki.uni-koeln.de > > > > > > > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 4 07:37:32 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 12:37:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: using screenshots of roma tool In-Reply-To: References: <1889BB8A-723D-4CBD-8887-BFF5BC49F208@uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: <5315C90C.8070107@it.ox.ac.uk> Done. I've also volunteered that we'd be willing to give her TEI chapter a quick read in case she wants some feedback on it. (If it is German then well... any of you German speakers can volunteer for it. ;-) ) -James On 03/03/14 14:49, David Sewell wrote: > >> From: Susanne Kurz > >> Date: March 2, 2014 at 3:50:27 AM PST >> To:web at tei-c.org >> Subject: using screenshots of roma tool >> >> Dear TEI web-team, >> >> I`m the author of a textbook with subject Digital Humanities,should be published in the near future. There is a main chapter > deals with TEI in general and the ROMA tool in special. For > explanation I`d like to use the screenshots you published on > http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines/Customization/use_roma.xml. >> >> Is it possible to use the screenshots? If yes, give me your consent to use them in my book, please. >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> Kind regards from Cologne, Germany, >> >> Susanne Kurz -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 4 09:57:35 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 14:57:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] add idno to att.canonical? In-Reply-To: References: <530B25F0.1050507@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760A5D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B280F.60406@retired.ox.ac.uk> <3D11821D65070D4BADB84B46F7FE203C3B760D3D@MBX09.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <530B8EC8.3080800@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5AD7DB01-8E4C-49AD-AE25-AD575ABD7FAC@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5315E9DF.4030600@retired.ox.ac.uk> Apologies for the delay in responding to this -- I asked my French colleague (Emmanuel Chateau, CCd) to expand on his use case a little more, which he duly did. I then took the liberty of translating his response into English and append that, together with his original below. "As for , I use this element to link to a permanent identifier in an authority file. This usage was recently introduced as part of the content model of following discussion initiated by Florence Clavaud on the TEI list last year. ( http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=tei-l;c92f0fc7.1207 http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=tei-l;520f66ef.1207 ) The availability of in this context is a clear sign of progress, particularly in the context of linked open data. But I find the content model of unsatisfactory because it does not allow you to distinguish the identifier within an authority file from its URI. Although it's generally possible to dereference a permanent identifier, the permanent URI provided by the agency responsible for an authority file is not necessarily the same as that identifier (the BnF for example uses ARKs),. You might want to display the identifier used by an authoruity file in the front of a web site as well as providing a hypertext link to its dereferenced content. Of course, it's often possible to create an algorithm using the URI to deduce the hypertext link by means of an XSLT, but this is not the case when the ID and the permanent URI differ. An example : Blondel, Jacques-Fran?ois (1705-1774) http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12442563q/PUBLIC I would have liked to be able to supply the identifier as well, knowing that the management system for ARKs at the BnF adds a letter and is slightly different: Blondel, Jacques-Fran?ois (1705-1774) FRBNF12442563 Such a solution would also have the advantage of avoiding the possibility of having sometimes an URI and sometimes a dereferencable identifier as the content of the element Brice, Germain (1653?-1727) http://data.bnf.fr/12176653/germain_brice/ 0000 0000 8078 2671 VIAF96934508 http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12176653r/ 030328411 I don't much like the solution of having two successive s because of its redundancy, but mostly because it does not allow you to show the link between the two elements. Or would it be possible to characterise the element (for example with @scheme) to show that it contains a PURL, an ARK, an URI, an URN, or just a simple identifier? In any case, there is something unsatisfactory here because the nature of the authority file used here cannot be explicitly declared. I don't know the value of such an idea, for it is complex : but could one not imagine something that functions a little more like the elements or to document these identifiers in the header?" ---------------------- original french follows ----- Dans tous les cas, je trouve qu'il y a quelque chose qui n'est pas tout ? fait satisfaisant car on ne peut pas explicitement d?clarer la nature du r?f?rentiel d'autorit? employ? ? cet endroit. Une id?e comme ?a, je ne sais pas ce qu'elle vaut car c'est plus compliqu? : ne pourrait-on pas sinon imaginer quelque chose qui fonctionne un peu plus comme les ?l?ments ou pour documenter ces identifiants dans l'en-t?te ? En ce qui concerne , j'utilise cet ?l?ment pour renvoyer ? un identifiant p?renne dans un r?f?rentiel. Cette emploi correspond ? celui introduit r?cemment dans le mod?le de contenu de , et suite ? la discussion soulev?e par Florence Clavaud sur la liste TEI l'ann?e derni?re : http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=tei-l;c92f0fc7.1207 http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=tei-l;520f66ef.1207 Le fait de disposer de l'?l?ment ? cet endroit constitue un net progr?s notamment dans une logique de donn?es li?es. Mais je trouve que le mod?le de contenu de reste insatisfaisant car il ne permet pas de distinguer l'identifiant dans un r?f?rentiel d'autorit? de son URI. S'il est g?n?ralement possible de d?r?f?rencer un identifiant p?renne, l'URI p?renne fournie par le service en charge d'une autorit? n'est pas forc?ment identique ? cet identifiant (la Bnf utilise par exemple des ARK). On peut aussi avoir besoin d'afficher l'identifiant d'une autorit? dans le front d'un site web en cr?ant un lien hypertexte pour acc?der ? son contenu d?r?f?ren?able. Certes, il est souvent possible de cr?er une logique ? partir de l'URI pour produire le lien hypertexte au moyen d'une XSLT, mais ce n'est pas le cas lorsque l'ID et l'URI p?renne diff?rent. Exemple d'utilisation : Blondel, Jacques-Fran?ois (1705-1774) http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12442563q/PUBLIC J'aurai aim? pouvoir mettre l'id sachant que le syst?me de gestion des ARK ? la BNF ajoute une lettre et est en partie diff?rent : Blondel, Jacques-Fran?ois (1705-1774) FRBNF12442563 Une telle solution aurait l'avantage d'?galement ?viter d'avoir tant?t une URI, tant?t un ID d?r?f?ren?able dans le contenu de l'?l?ment : Brice, Germain (1653?-1727) http://data.bnf.fr/12176653/germain_brice/ 0000 0000 8078 2671 VIAF96934508 http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12176653r/ 030328411 La solution avec deux successifs ne me pla?t pas trop parcequ'elle est redondante et surtout elle ne permet pas d'?tablir de lien entre les deux informations. Ou alors faudrait-il pouvoir typer l'?l?ment (par exemple avec @scheme) pour dire qu'il contient un PURL, d'un ARK, une URI, un URN, ou encore tout simplement d'un ID, etc. ? Dans tous les cas, je trouve qu'il y a quelque chose qui n'est pas tout ? fait satisfaisant car on ne peut pas explicitement d?clarer la nature du r?f?rentiel d'autorit? employ? ? cet endroit. Une id?e comme ?a, je ne sais pas ce qu'elle vaut car c'est plus compliqu? : ne pourrait-on pas sinon imaginer quelque chose qui fonctionne un peu plus comme les ?l?ments ou pour documenter ces identifiants dans l'en-t?te ? On 25/02/14 20:07, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > two comments - if it's a client issue, can't it be a customization, adding > to att. canonical? > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 4 10:05:46 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 15:05:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] non TEI attribute namespace Message-ID: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> Alexei Lavrentev, whom some Council members know, asked me a good question when I was teaching ODD in Lyon last week. "What I did not understand is whether adding a zero-namespace attribute to a TEI element (e.g. lg/@asonancia) is a) ok, if the attribute is declared in the ODD ; b) not forbidden but is not a good practice ; c) is not conformant. " To expand on this a bit, all TEI attributes are in the empty namespace and so there's no formal reason why my ODD should not declare a new attribute and place that also in the empty namespace. Do we think that that is perfectly OK? It will of course be valid according to the schema my ODD generates, but may upset other TEI processors which are foolish enough to expect to see only TEI-defined attributes. Of course, I can be squeaky-clean by placing my new attribute in my own namespace, and I will be required to if it has a name already used by the TEI. But if neither of these is the case, am I still TEI conformant? From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 4 10:12:12 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 15:12:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] non TEI attribute namespace In-Reply-To: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: My reading of the Conformance section leaves me feeling that it should be in a new namespace but that is just a gut feeling. James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Lou Burnard Date:2014/03/04 15:05 (GMT+00:00) To: "" Subject: [tei-council] non TEI attribute namespace Alexei Lavrentev, whom some Council members know, asked me a good question when I was teaching ODD in Lyon last week. "What I did not understand is whether adding a zero-namespace attribute to a TEI element (e.g. lg/@asonancia) is a) ok, if the attribute is declared in the ODD ; b) not forbidden but is not a good practice ; c) is not conformant. " To expand on this a bit, all TEI attributes are in the empty namespace and so there's no formal reason why my ODD should not declare a new attribute and place that also in the empty namespace. Do we think that that is perfectly OK? It will of course be valid according to the schema my ODD generates, but may upset other TEI processors which are foolish enough to expect to see only TEI-defined attributes. Of course, I can be squeaky-clean by placing my new attribute in my own namespace, and I will be required to if it has a name already used by the TEI. But if neither of these is the case, am I still TEI conformant? -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Mar 4 11:53:30 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 08:53:30 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] non TEI attribute namespace In-Reply-To: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5316050A.4020106@uvic.ca> I think it would be better for interoperability and clarity if we required (or strongly advised) that all custom attributes be explicitly declared in a different namespace. For processors, this means that all unprefixed attributes, along with those prefixed attributes that are part of the standard schema, are known to be TEI, and all custom attributes can easily be distinguished because they are neither in the xml namespace nor in the empty namespace. It also makes it easier to group custom elements and custom attributes, because they'll presumably be in the same namespace(s). Cheers, Martin On 14-03-04 07:05 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > Alexei Lavrentev, whom some Council members know, asked me a good > question when I was teaching ODD in Lyon last week. > > "What I did not understand is whether adding a zero-namespace attribute > to a TEI element > (e.g. lg/@asonancia) is > a) ok, if the attribute is declared in the ODD ; > b) not forbidden but is not a good practice ; > c) is not conformant. " > > To expand on this a bit, all TEI attributes are in the empty namespace > and so there's no formal reason why my ODD should not declare a new > attribute and place that also in the empty namespace. Do we think that > that is perfectly OK? It will of course be valid according to the > schema my ODD generates, but may upset other TEI processors which are > foolish enough to expect to see only TEI-defined attributes. > > Of course, I can be squeaky-clean by placing my new attribute in my own > namespace, and I will be required to if it has a name already used by > the TEI. But if neither of these is the case, am I still TEI conformant? > > > > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Mar 4 12:03:25 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 18:03:25 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] non TEI attribute namespace In-Reply-To: <5316050A.4020106@uvic.ca> References: <5315EBCA.6050106@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5316050A.4020106@uvic.ca> Message-ID: I strongly support the idea that any element or attribute added to a TEI customization must have its own namespace, for the practical reasons stated by Martin, but for the sake of formal clarity, as well. Ciao, Fabio 2014-03-04 17:53 GMT+01:00 Martin Holmes : > I think it would be better for interoperability and clarity if we > required (or strongly advised) that all custom attributes be explicitly > declared in a different namespace. For processors, this means that all > unprefixed attributes, along with those prefixed attributes that are > part of the standard schema, are known to be TEI, and all custom > attributes can easily be distinguished because they are neither in the > xml namespace nor in the empty namespace. > > It also makes it easier to group custom elements and custom attributes, > because they'll presumably be in the same namespace(s). > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-03-04 07:05 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: >> Alexei Lavrentev, whom some Council members know, asked me a good >> question when I was teaching ODD in Lyon last week. >> >> "What I did not understand is whether adding a zero-namespace attribute >> to a TEI element >> (e.g. lg/@asonancia) is >> a) ok, if the attribute is declared in the ODD ; >> b) not forbidden but is not a good practice ; >> c) is not conformant. " >> >> To expand on this a bit, all TEI attributes are in the empty namespace >> and so there's no formal reason why my ODD should not declare a new >> attribute and place that also in the empty namespace. Do we think that >> that is perfectly OK? It will of course be valid according to the >> schema my ODD generates, but may upset other TEI processors which are >> foolish enough to expect to see only TEI-defined attributes. >> >> Of course, I can be squeaky-clean by placing my new attribute in my own >> namespace, and I will be required to if it has a name already used by >> the TEI. But if neither of these is the case, am I still TEI conformant? >> >> >> >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Mar 6 12:26:23 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:26:23 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? Message-ID: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> HI all, I have on my schedule a Council teleconference scheduled for tomorrow at 6am my time. Is that still on, or did I get something wrong? If it is still on, what's the agenda, who's doing minutes, and what are the connection details? Cheers, Martin From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Mar 6 13:26:42 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 19:26:42 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Oppss, yes it was scheduled in fact... but I did forget to put it on my google cal so I've fixed a business lunch for tomorrow. It is probable that at 3 pm my time I will have finished but I cannot be sure :(. I will try to do it anyway if our chair confirm the virtual meeting is still on. Fabio 2014-03-06 18:26 GMT+01:00 Martin Holmes : > HI all, > > I have on my schedule a Council teleconference scheduled for tomorrow at > 6am my time. Is that still on, or did I get something wrong? If it is > still on, what's the agenda, who's doing minutes, and what are the > connection details? > > Cheers, > Martin > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 6 13:34:49 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 18:34:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> On 06/03/14 17:26, Martin Holmes wrote: > HI all, > > I have on my schedule a Council teleconference scheduled for tomorrow at > 6am my time. Is that still on, or did I get something wrong? If it is > still on, what's the agenda, who's doing minutes, and what are the > connection details? Hi All, Apologies, I should have set up an agenda page earlier this week and entirely neglected to. (Been quite busy here.) I'll add some agenda items to: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 later this evening, but feel free to add issues we need to get reports on before I get to it! *Can I have a volunteer to take minutes?* As always if you can make a report to the mailing list and we only note it in the teleconference that is better to speed things along. If you think your item will also cause lots of discussion, we should be having that on the mailing list. The teleconference details will be exactly the same as last time: The connection information is below. We'll be using the same conferencing system as last time run by economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical location as another council member, do consider sharing a conference/speaker phone.) US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 Canada: Use US number. UK: 0800-016-3440 Germany: 0800-182-0270 France: 0800-916-758 Italy: 800-789-804 (If you need a different country number, please contact me asap.) You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. Tomorrow, dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access code: 4614041 followed by the # button. You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute your line using *6. Questions? Updates to the agenda? -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 6 14:54:32 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 19:54:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] conf call tomorrow Message-ID: <5318D278.408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Ooops, just realised I have an engagement elsewhere tomorrow, so may not be able to join the call, depending on whether I can get any connectivity at Upper Heyford. In case I don't, here's a few comments on the draft (I see they are still draft) minutes from last time: 1. Rather than wagging stern figures, could we perhaps just have a separate list of incompleted actions from the Oxford ftf and re-allocate them? 2. In response to the item on "Council Membership", I take this opportunity of thanking Council members for their flattering request to co-opt me as a "community expert" for a one year period. Do I get a vote? I'm pleased to accept in any case. 3. Text directionality. Very sorry Martin, I haven't had time to look at this yet. If I haven't done so within the next week or two, feel free to request input from someone else. From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Mar 6 15:23:49 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 12:23:49 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] conf call tomorrow In-Reply-To: <5318D278.408@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5318D278.408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5318D955.20807@uvic.ca> Hi Lou, On 14-03-06 11:54 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > Ooops, just realised I have an engagement elsewhere tomorrow, so may not > be able to join the call, depending on whether I can get any > connectivity at Upper Heyford. > > In case I don't, here's a few comments on the draft (I see they are > still draft) minutes from last time: > > 1. Rather than wagging stern figures, could we perhaps just have a > separate list of incompleted actions from the Oxford ftf and re-allocate > them? I certainly wasn't planning to sternly wag my figure, but for anyone wishing to check up on what's assigned to them, the last telco minutes are here, with a section for "Actions arising" at the top: and going one stage further back, the Oxford ftf actions are here: > 2. In response to the item on "Council Membership", I take this > opportunity of thanking Council members for their flattering request to > co-opt me as a "community expert" for a one year period. Do I get a > vote? I'm pleased to accept in any case. > > 3. Text directionality. Very sorry Martin, I haven't had time to look at > this yet. If I haven't done so within the next week or two, feel free to > request input from someone else. No worries -- I haven't got to it yet either. Since the next ftf isn't till June, the next release is a long way off now. Cheers, Martin From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 6 18:10:35 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:10:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de>,<52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Dear Council, I realise that we never got back to Torsten and Oyvind about this proposal for theTEI Object Working Group. Can I poll the Council on the mailing list about the proposal? -James ________________________________________ From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] on behalf of James Cummings [James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk] Sent: 11 January 2014 09:05 To: TEI Council Cc: oyvind.eide at uni-passau.de; Torsten Schassan Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group Dear Council, I entirely neglected to forward this to Council and mention it during the TeleConference. Mea Culpa. This is Torsten's WG Proposal (attached) for a TEI Object working group. It does not include any costings for a face-to-face, but I would suspect that it would probably cost less than 50% of a council face-to-face. (Since we could have less people attending it, institutional contributions, piggy-back on important conferences, or be in some central location.) Please read the attached proposal and comment back to Council list (but CC'ing in Torsten and Oyvind) during the next couple weeks. Many thanks, -James -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: TEI Object Working Group Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:18:14 +0100 From: Torsten Schassan To: CC: , , , Hi James, hi all, here are some ideas on how to structure the work on the object matter. It doesn't go very much into detail but summarises the discussions held in various meetings and proposes a schedule. No words about the costs here but financial help to meet f2f might be needed unless the interested people will meet at certain occasions anyway. I hope this will be helpful. Best, Torsten === ?A working group (WG) on the matter will have to consider whether * it will restrain itself to the description of objects that carry texts (in a broad sense) or allow for the description of objects of any kind; * it wants to incorporate the manuscript description elements in the content model of an element (or the like, to be created). Such a hierarchy would follow the examples of the , , and elements (ch. 13) which serve as a space to collect information about a person, organisation, or place and to which is referred by , , and elements. * the manuscript description elements could be extended to cover the description of objects of all kinds or whether the existing elements and the existing hierarchy of elements represent cataloguing traditions that make it difficult to cover other objects than (western medieval) manuscripts. * the fact that a description of an object could be either metadata or data has any influence on the structure of the markup of the descrription or whether the same elements could be used in either places. (i.e. relationship between TEI documents and objects) The WG has to take the following steps: 1. get in touch with non-manuscript communities in order to find out about missing elements and attributes, needed or misleading structures within the description or the possibilities to use the manuscript description structures at all for their purposes. 2. find out about the possibilities to just reword the chapter on msdescription and by this cover objects of other kinds 3. decide upon the integration of the object description in the chapter on entities (person, org, place) or to leave it separate. 4. prepare an ODD which represents the forseen changes Materials that have to be taken into consideration * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/326/ to establish and for (real world) objects mentioned in texts * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/187/ discussion on Schedule 2014 Jan - 2014 Jul/Oct Review of ch. 10 (msdescription) and exchange with non-mss communities, decision whether to integrate it in ch. 13 2014 Oct - 2015 Oct establish a text and prepare ODD The WG should meet face-to-face at least twice in order to review the existing wording in the first step and finalise a proposal for the TEI Council in the second step. Possible occasions might be any major DH meeting, e.g. 26-28 March 2014 in Passau, 7-12 July 2014 in Lausanne, 20-25 October 2014 TEI MM The WG might have a look at the semantical representation of the description of objects e.g. through CIDOC-CRM. The WG might consider to propose a way to allow for negative expressions such as "There are no illustrations present". === From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 6 18:28:51 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:28:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de>,<52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: remembering, by the way, that we have NeDiMaH funding for this group. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 04:38:39 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:38:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de>, <52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5319939F.1040307@retired.ox.ac.uk> If this question is asking whether or not Torsten's proposal is acceptable to the Council, then I for one think it is. Could someone please put the proposal on the Wiki so that it can be reviewed and annotated? I'd be happy to be a member of the proposed working group. On 06/03/14 23:10, James Cummings wrote: > Dear Council, > > I realise that we never got back to Torsten and Oyvind about this proposal for theTEI Object Working Group. > > Can I poll the Council on the mailing list about the proposal? > > -James > > > ________________________________________ > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] on behalf of James Cummings [James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk] > Sent: 11 January 2014 09:05 > To: TEI Council > Cc: oyvind.eide at uni-passau.de; Torsten Schassan > Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group > > Dear Council, > > I entirely neglected to forward this to Council and mention it > during the TeleConference. Mea Culpa. This is Torsten's WG > Proposal (attached) for a TEI Object working group. It does not > include any costings for a face-to-face, but I would suspect that > it would probably cost less than 50% of a council face-to-face. > (Since we could have less people attending it, institutional > contributions, piggy-back on important conferences, or be in some > central location.) > > Please read the attached proposal and comment back to Council > list (but CC'ing in Torsten and Oyvind) during the next couple weeks. > > Many thanks, > > -James > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: TEI Object Working Group > Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:18:14 +0100 > From: Torsten Schassan > To: > CC: , , > , > > Hi James, hi all, > > here are some ideas on how to structure the work on the object > matter. > It doesn't go very much into detail but summarises the > discussions held > in various meetings and proposes a schedule. No words about the costs > here but financial help to meet f2f might be needed unless the > interested people will meet at certain occasions anyway. > > I hope this will be helpful. > > Best, Torsten > === > ?A working group (WG) on the matter will have to consider whether > > * it will restrain itself to the description of objects that carry texts (in a broad sense) or allow for the description of objects of any kind; > * it wants to incorporate the manuscript description elements in the content model of an element (or the like, to be created). Such a hierarchy would follow the examples of the , , and elements (ch. 13) which serve as a space to collect information about a person, organisation, or place and to which is referred by , , and elements. > * the manuscript description elements could be extended to cover the description of objects of all kinds or whether the existing elements and the existing hierarchy of elements represent cataloguing traditions that make it difficult to cover other objects than (western medieval) manuscripts. > * the fact that a description of an object could be either metadata or data has any influence on the structure of the markup of the descrription or whether the same elements could be used in either places. (i.e. relationship between TEI documents and objects) > > > The WG has to take the following steps: > > 1. get in touch with non-manuscript communities in order to find out about missing elements and attributes, needed or misleading structures within the description or the possibilities to use the manuscript description structures at all for their purposes. > 2. find out about the possibilities to just reword the chapter on msdescription and by this cover objects of other kinds > 3. decide upon the integration of the object description in the chapter on entities (person, org, place) or to leave it separate. > 4. prepare an ODD which represents the forseen changes > > > Materials that have to be taken into consideration > > * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/326/ to establish and for (real world) objects mentioned in texts > * http://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/187/ discussion on > > > > Schedule > > 2014 Jan - 2014 Jul/Oct Review of ch. 10 (msdescription) and exchange with non-mss communities, decision whether to integrate it in ch. 13 > 2014 Oct - 2015 Oct establish a text and prepare ODD > > > The WG should meet face-to-face at least twice in order to review the existing wording in the first step and finalise a proposal for the TEI Council in the second step. > Possible occasions might be any major DH meeting, e.g. 26-28 March 2014 in Passau, 7-12 July 2014 in Lausanne, 20-25 October 2014 TEI MM > > The WG might have a look at the semantical representation of the description of objects e.g. through CIDOC-CRM. > The WG might consider to propose a way to allow for negative expressions such as "There are no illustrations present". > > > === From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 05:29:23 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:29:23 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: TEI Object Working Group In-Reply-To: <5319939F.1040307@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <52CFD6F6.9080307@hab.de>, <52D10976.1010501@it.ox.ac.uk> <5C6BFD2E06EDC14284D18D304BBA2D103AEAAD97@MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5319939F.1040307@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53199F83.6040100@it.ox.ac.uk> On 07/03/14 09:38, Lou Burnard wrote: > If this question is asking whether or not Torsten's proposal is > acceptable to the Council, then I for one think it is. Could someone > please put the proposal on the Wiki so that it can be reviewed and > annotated? I'd be happy to be a member of the proposed working group. I've added the object wg proposal to the wiki at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/ObjectWG to facilitate Council discussion of it. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From s.bauman at neu.edu Fri Mar 7 06:53:14 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 06:53:14 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] call? no. Message-ID: <21273.45866.787106.487714@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I think we have a conference call today, not sure what time. Doesn't matter much, I almost assuredly can't make it. But furthermore, due to illness in the family, I expect a reduced presence here on Council for the next some-number-of weeks. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 06:57:00 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 11:57:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] call? no. In-Reply-To: <21273.45866.787106.487714@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <21273.45866.787106.487714@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <5319B40C.9080008@it.ox.ac.uk> On 07/03/14 11:53, Syd Bauman wrote: > I think we have a conference call today, not sure what time. Doesn't > matter much, I almost assuredly can't make it. But furthermore, due > to illness in the family, I expect a reduced presence here on Council > for the next some-number-of weeks. Hi Syd, Sorry to hear that you can't make the conference call (which is at 2pm Oxford time - I believe 9am your time), and to hear of the family illness. Best, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 06:59:28 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 11:59:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 Message-ID: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 And currently contains: Review of actions, SF tickets Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) Report on TEI Simple (SR) Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) Object Working Group Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've forgotten! -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 07:03:38 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:03:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] conf call tomorrow In-Reply-To: <5318D278.408@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5318D278.408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5319B59A.6070103@it.ox.ac.uk> On 06/03/14 19:54, Lou Burnard wrote: > 2. In response to the item on "Council Membership", I take this > opportunity of thanking Council members for their flattering request to > co-opt me as a "community expert" for a one year period. Do I get a > vote? I'm pleased to accept in any case. For the record, I believe that the consensus was that only elected members get a vote when we are undertaking any form of serious vote. If we are just having a quick show of hands to indicate opinions on an issue, I believe co-opted members can participate in that. If in any doubt, ask the chair at the time. ;-) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Fri Mar 7 07:14:44 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 13:14:44 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] call? no. In-Reply-To: <5319B40C.9080008@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <21273.45866.787106.487714@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> <5319B40C.9080008@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi all, I postponed my business lunch so I'll be with you. Syd, sorry to hear of your troubles, I hope everything gonna be alright. Fabio 2014-03-07 12:57 GMT+01:00 James Cummings : > On 07/03/14 11:53, Syd Bauman wrote: >> I think we have a conference call today, not sure what time. Doesn't >> matter much, I almost assuredly can't make it. But furthermore, due >> to illness in the family, I expect a reduced presence here on Council >> for the next some-number-of weeks. > > Hi Syd, > > Sorry to hear that you can't make the conference call (which is > at 2pm Oxford time - I believe 9am your time), and to hear of the > family illness. > > Best, > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 08:09:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:09:03 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 In-Reply-To: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5319C4EF.7030602@uvic.ca> I've created a document for minutes here: Could someone confirm they can access it OK? Cheers, Martin On 14-03-07 03:59 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: > > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 > > And currently contains: > > Review of actions, SF tickets > Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) > Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) > Report on TEI Simple (SR) > Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) > Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) > Object Working Group > > > Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before > the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've > forgotten! > > -James > From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Mar 7 08:14:30 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 08:14:30 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 In-Reply-To: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: > Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) Mine is simple. We?ve got 8 respondents to the poll for participation, with 4 dates all clear so far. If you haven?t filled it out yet, please do so! http://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc Thanks, Hugh /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Mar 7, 2014, at 6:59 , James Cummings wrote: > > Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: > > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 > > And currently contains: > > Review of actions, SF tickets > Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) > Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) > Report on TEI Simple (SR) > Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) > Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) > Object Working Group > > > Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before > the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've > forgotten! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 08:16:39 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:16:39 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 In-Reply-To: References: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5319C6B7.3030003@uvic.ca> > Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) Again simple: as Lou reported, we've both been too busy to work on it yet, but we aim to have it ready for the next release, assuming that is after the next ftf. Cheers, Martin On 14-03-07 05:14 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) > > Mine is simple. We?ve got 8 respondents to the poll for participation, with 4 dates all clear so far. If you haven?t filled it out yet, please do so! > > http://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc > > Thanks, > Hugh > > /** > * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D > * hugh.cayless at duke.edu > * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) > * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ > **/ > > > On Mar 7, 2014, at 6:59 , James Cummings wrote: > >> >> Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: >> >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 >> >> And currently contains: >> >> Review of actions, SF tickets >> Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) >> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) >> Report on TEI Simple (SR) >> Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) >> Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) >> Object Working Group >> >> >> Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before >> the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've >> forgotten! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Fri Mar 7 08:45:23 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 08:45:23 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 In-Reply-To: <5319C6B7.3030003@uvic.ca> References: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> <5319C6B7.3030003@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <1394199923.10416.91745937.4A8DFEBB@webmail.messagingengine.com> If anyone wants a blank google doc in which to record our proceedings, I've opened one here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19SfYCAiEDnuponveR-ug53rDjqcnerkaPx168K9-40E/edit?usp=sharing shared with 'anyone with a link' pfs On Fri, Mar 7, 2014, at 8:16, Martin Holmes wrote: > > Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) > > Again simple: as Lou reported, we've both been too busy to work on it > yet, but we aim to have it ready for the next release, assuming that is > after the next ftf. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-03-07 05:14 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > >> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) > > > > Mine is simple. We?ve got 8 respondents to the poll for participation, with 4 dates all clear so far. If you haven?t filled it out yet, please do so! > > > > http://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc > > > > Thanks, > > Hugh > > > > /** > > * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D > > * hugh.cayless at duke.edu > > * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) > > * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ > > **/ > > > > > > On Mar 7, 2014, at 6:59 , James Cummings wrote: > > > >> > >> Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: > >> > >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 > >> > >> And currently contains: > >> > >> Review of actions, SF tickets > >> Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) > >> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) > >> Report on TEI Simple (SR) > >> Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) > >> Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) > >> Object Working Group > >> > >> > >> Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before > >> the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've > >> forgotten! > >> > >> -James > >> > >> -- > >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > >> -- > >> tei-council mailing list > >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >> > >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 08:51:06 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:51:06 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference Agenda 2014-03-07 In-Reply-To: <1394199923.10416.91745937.4A8DFEBB@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <5319B4A0.9080703@it.ox.ac.uk> <5319C6B7.3030003@uvic.ca> <1394199923.10416.91745937.4A8DFEBB@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <5319CECA.3000203@uvic.ca> Great minds think alike! We already had one going here: <> Cheers, Martin On 14-03-07 05:45 AM, Paul Schaffner wrote: > If anyone wants a blank google doc in which to record our > proceedings, I've opened one here: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/19SfYCAiEDnuponveR-ug53rDjqcnerkaPx168K9-40E/edit?usp=sharing > > shared with 'anyone with a link' > > pfs > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014, at 8:16, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) >> >> Again simple: as Lou reported, we've both been too busy to work on it >> yet, but we aim to have it ready for the next release, assuming that is >> after the next ftf. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-03-07 05:14 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>>> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) >>> >>> Mine is simple. We?ve got 8 respondents to the poll for participation, with 4 dates all clear so far. If you haven?t filled it out yet, please do so! >>> >>> http://doodle.com/46gbvkft7puiw5fc >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Hugh >>> >>> /** >>> * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D >>> * hugh.cayless at duke.edu >>> * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) >>> * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ >>> **/ >>> >>> >>> On Mar 7, 2014, at 6:59 , James Cummings wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Just to remind you that the proposed agenda is at: >>>> >>>> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 >>>> >>>> And currently contains: >>>> >>>> Review of actions, SF tickets >>>> Report on upcoming face-to-face (JC) >>>> Report on autumn face-to-face (HC) >>>> Report on TEI Simple (SR) >>>> Report on TEI Hackathon (EM/SR/etc) >>>> Report on Text Directionality (MH/LB) >>>> Object Working Group >>>> >>>> >>>> Feel free to make any of these reports to the mailing list before >>>> the conference call. Also please add those topics which I've >>>> forgotten! >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 08:54:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:54:59 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] XPointer rewrite Message-ID: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> Quick question for Hugh: I've just been reading the XPointer spec -- nice work -- and it looks to me as though it adheres pretty closely to what you laid out in your jTEI article. Is that so? Does it differ at all? Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 09:01:27 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 06:01:27 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] XPointer rewrite In-Reply-To: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> References: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5319D137.1040008@uvic.ca> And another quick question: here: A Sequence follows the definition in the XPath 2.0 Data Model, with one alteration. A Sequence is an ordered collection of zero or more items, where an item is either a node or a partial text node. An an XPointer sequence must consist of nodes, as defined above, except for the first and last items in the sequence, which may be partial text nodes. I don't know what a "partial text node" is, I discover. If what's returned is an XPath sequence, wouldn't these be simply text nodes, knowing nothing about the fact that they're pieces of a source node? Or do they have some kind of notional relationship to their source text node? Cheers, Martin On 14-03-07 05:54 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: > Quick question for Hugh: > > I've just been reading the XPointer spec -- nice work -- and it looks to > me as though it adheres pretty closely to what you laid out in your jTEI > article. Is that so? Does it differ at all? > > Cheers, > Martin > From stadler at edirom.de Fri Mar 7 09:05:35 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:05:35 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FFD84B9-D0E9-4164-8076-FE355506E860@edirom.de> Hi all, I?m having problems connecting? Tells me the line is busy? Is it just me?! Peter Am 06.03.2014 um 19:34 schrieb James Cummings : > On 06/03/14 17:26, Martin Holmes wrote: >> HI all, >> >> I have on my schedule a Council teleconference scheduled for tomorrow at >> 6am my time. Is that still on, or did I get something wrong? If it is >> still on, what's the agenda, who's doing minutes, and what are the >> connection details? > > Hi All, > > Apologies, I should have set up an agenda page earlier this week > and entirely neglected to. (Been quite busy here.) > > I'll add some agenda items to: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-03 > later this evening, but feel free to add issues we need to get > reports on before I get to it! > > *Can I have a volunteer to take minutes?* > > As always if you can make a report to the mailing list and we > only note it in the teleconference that is better to speed things > along. If you think your item will also cause lots of > discussion, we should be having that on the mailing list. > > > The teleconference details will be exactly the same as last time: > > The connection information is below. We'll be using the same > conferencing system as last time run by > economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in > toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the > Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. > > (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical > location as another council member, do consider sharing a > conference/speaker phone.) > > US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 > Canada: Use US number. > UK: 0800-016-3440 > Germany: 0800-182-0270 > France: 0800-916-758 > Italy: 800-789-804 > > (If you need a different country number, please contact me asap.) > > You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice > saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. > > Tomorrow, dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access > code: 4614041 followed by the # button. > > You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute > your line using *6. > > Questions? > > Updates to the agenda? > > -James > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140307/80890944/attachment.bin From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Mar 7 09:07:06 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:07:06 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] XPointer rewrite In-Reply-To: <5319D137.1040008@uvic.ca> References: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> <5319D137.1040008@uvic.ca> Message-ID: They have a notional relationship to text nodes. You can think of them as text nodes with a substring function applied to them. /** * Hugh A. Cayless, Ph.D * hugh.cayless at duke.edu * Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing (DC3) * http://blogs.library.duke.edu/dcthree/ **/ On Mar 7, 2014, at 9:01 , Martin Holmes wrote: > And another quick question: here: > > A Sequence follows the definition in the XPath 2.0 Data Model, with one > alteration. A Sequence is an ordered collection of zero or more items, > where an item is either a node or a partial text node. An an XPointer > sequence must consist of nodes, as defined above, except for the first > and last items in the sequence, which may be partial text nodes. > > I don't know what a "partial text node" is, I discover. If what's > returned is an XPath sequence, wouldn't these be simply text nodes, > knowing nothing about the fact that they're pieces of a source node? Or > do they have some kind of notional relationship to their source text node? > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-03-07 05:54 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Quick question for Hugh: >> >> I've just been reading the XPointer spec -- nice work -- and it looks to >> me as though it adheres pretty closely to what you laid out in your jTEI >> article. Is that so? Does it differ at all? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Mar 7 09:14:50 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:14:50 -0500 Subject: [tei-council] XPointer rewrite In-Reply-To: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> References: <5319CFB3.4060202@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <3DAC7281-65E3-4826-AB11-88D0A08F2978@gmail.com> Very closely. There may be some minor changes. On Mar 7, 2014, at 8:54 , Martin Holmes wrote: > Quick question for Hugh: > > I've just been reading the XPointer spec -- nice work -- and it looks to > me as though it adheres pretty closely to what you laid out in your jTEI > article. Is that so? Does it differ at all? > > Cheers, > Martin > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Fri Mar 7 09:14:56 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:14:56 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <8134E2FE-EF52-464B-A534-C127BCCA9BF2@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> <3FFD84B9-D0E9-4164-8076-FE355506E860@edirom.de> <8134E2FE-EF52-464B-A534-C127BCCA9BF2@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1FFF265F-F99B-4C9A-A5D3-1DFC2B2AC84F@edirom.de> Thanks! There must have been a problem with the German number -- I just entered the conference via Skype and an American number ? Best Peter Am 07.03.2014 um 15:09 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > Germany: 0800-182-0270 > > dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access > code: 4614041 followed by the # button. > > You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute > your line using *6. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140307/27be9f4d/attachment.bin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 10:06:44 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:06:44 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Clarifying the situation re ITS and text directionality Message-ID: <5319E084.20805@uvic.ca> I wasn't very coherent this morning about the reasons we rejected ITS. Apologies for that -- it's very early in the morning at the end of a long week. We did look in detail at the ITS specification. Our workgroup page reports: "We agree that the ITS specification is rather a red herring. Its primary concern is translation rather than text representation, and its provisions for directionality are sparse. " This is a rather brief report on a longer discussion. The point about ITS is that its focus is the creation and maintenance of documents for the purposes of translation. It's "designed to foster the automated creation and processing of multilingual Web content". That's not what our text directionality proposal is focused on at all; we're trying to provide useful guidelines based on existing specifications that enable the encoding of documents containing potentially complex combinations of nested directionality features. In addition, ITS covers ONLY left-to-right and right-to-left, and our mandate was to deal with vertical directionality as well. Even in the case of ltr-rtl, the ITS analysis is relatively superficial compared with the sophistication of the CSS Writing Modes and CSS Transforms modules, which are much richer. In addition, in order to use the CSS attributes, no changes need to be made to the TEI schema; we don't need to add elements from any other namespace, because it's all done with @style/@rendition/. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 7 10:08:37 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:08:37 -0800 Subject: [tei-council] Clarifying the situation re ITS and text directionality In-Reply-To: <5319E084.20805@uvic.ca> References: <5319E084.20805@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5319E0F5.5050607@uvic.ca> I should add: a brief read-through of the new ITS 2.0 suggests to me that none of the objections we had to it have been obviated by the new version. Their purpose remains the same, and there's still no vertical directionality stuff. Cheers, Martin On 14-03-07 07:06 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: > I wasn't very coherent this morning about the reasons we rejected ITS. > Apologies for that -- it's very early in the morning at the end of a > long week. > > We did look in detail at the ITS specification. Our workgroup page reports: > > "We agree that the ITS specification is rather a red herring. Its > primary concern is translation rather than text representation, and its > provisions for directionality are sparse. " > > This is a rather brief report on a longer discussion. The point about > ITS is that its focus is the creation and maintenance of documents for > the purposes of translation. It's "designed to foster the automated > creation and processing of multilingual Web content". That's not what > our text directionality proposal is focused on at all; we're trying to > provide useful guidelines based on existing specifications that enable > the encoding of documents containing potentially complex combinations of > nested directionality features. > > In addition, ITS covers ONLY left-to-right and right-to-left, and our > mandate was to deal with vertical directionality as well. Even in the > case of ltr-rtl, the ITS analysis is relatively superficial compared > with the sophistication of the CSS Writing Modes and CSS Transforms > modules, which are much richer. In addition, in order to use the CSS > attributes, no changes need to be made to the TEI schema; we don't need > to add elements from any other namespace, because it's all done with > @style/@rendition/. > > Cheers, > Martin > > > > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 7 10:16:57 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:16:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <1FFF265F-F99B-4C9A-A5D3-1DFC2B2AC84F@edirom.de> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> <3FFD84B9-D0E9-4164-8076-FE355506E860@edirom.de> <8134E2FE-EF52-464B-A534-C127BCCA9BF2@it.ox.ac.uk> <1FFF265F-F99B-4C9A-A5D3-1DFC2B2AC84F@edirom.de> Message-ID: <5319E2E9.1050205@it.ox.ac.uk> Apologies. I'll ask them what the German number is again (it *was* that) before our next teleconference. -James On 07/03/14 14:14, Peter Stadler wrote: > Thanks! > There must have been a problem with the German number -- I just entered the conference via Skype and an American number ? > > Best > Peter > > Am 07.03.2014 um 15:09 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : > >> Germany: 0800-182-0270 >> >> dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access >> code: 4614041 followed by the # button. >> >> You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute >> your line using *6. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> > > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Fri Mar 7 10:18:07 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 16:18:07 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference tomorrow? In-Reply-To: <5319E2E9.1050205@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <5318AFBF.8070109@uvic.ca> <5318BFC9.9040108@it.ox.ac.uk> <3FFD84B9-D0E9-4164-8076-FE355506E860@edirom.de> <8134E2FE-EF52-464B-A534-C127BCCA9BF2@it.ox.ac.uk> <1FFF265F-F99B-4C9A-A5D3-1DFC2B2AC84F@edirom.de> <5319E2E9.1050205@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3375D43E-9A85-4337-9B1D-535FD6726E9F@edirom.de> Yes, last time it *did* work ? Thanks Peter Am 07.03.2014 um 16:16 schrieb James Cummings : > > Apologies. I'll ask them what the German number is again (it > *was* that) before our next teleconference. > > -James > > On 07/03/14 14:14, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Thanks! >> There must have been a problem with the German number -- I just entered the conference via Skype and an American number ? >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> Am 07.03.2014 um 15:09 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz : >> >>> Germany: 0800-182-0270 >>> >>> dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access >>> code: 4614041 followed by the # button. >>> >>> You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute >>> your line using *6. >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140307/501a4d0c/attachment.bin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 13:38:09 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:38:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc Message-ID: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> *Last week my suggestion that it would be convenient if could appear within kicked off a lot of discussion, which you can read on the sourceforge tracker at [feature-requests:#500] The discussion went in several directions, as is often the way, and didn't reach a definite conclusion. However there did seem to be agreement that adding model.noteLike into the current content model for would be an innocuous change, if not an enhancement. Opinions varied as to the rationale for this, and also as to possible implications for other modifications of the header. As this is a real requirement on my part I'd like to press ahead and make at least that modification before the next release. Does anyone have any objection to my doing so? * From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:24:00 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:24:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology Message-ID: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> One of the coolest things we've introduced in the last few years is the @source attribute on , which enables one to regenerate a schema from a specific version of TEI P5. The ODD processor in Oxygen, for example, takes a value for @source like "tei:x.y.z" and looks for the file p5subset.xml in the appropriate source directory at http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/P5 HOWEVER, I have just discovered that this file is missing from the source directories prior to 1.2.0 (november 2008) i.e. from releases 1.0.0, 1.0.1, 1.1.0 :-( Is this an oversight? It's not a disaster, obviously, but it seems a pity that we can't go back in time before 2008. How would one go about retrofitting a p5subset.xml? From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:32:01 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:32:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:24, Lou Burnard wrote: > One of the coolest things we've introduced in the last few years is the > @source attribute on , which enables one to regenerate a > schema from a specific version of TEI P5. The ODD processor in Oxygen, > for example, takes a value for @source like "tei:x.y.z" and looks for > the file p5subset.xml in the appropriate source directory at > http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/P5 > > > HOWEVER, I have just discovered that this file is missing from the > source directories prior to 1.2.0 (november 2008) i.e. from releases > 1.0.0, 1.0.1, 1.1.0 :-( yes. it wasn?t a standard part of things back then. > > Is this an oversight? It's not a disaster, obviously, but it seems a > pity that we can't go back in time before 2008. How would one go about > retrofitting a p5subset.xml? It is the P5 source in a single file, with the chapters omitted to save space. You could run (current) Utilities/subset.xml on the source and bob?s your uncle. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Mar 11 14:36:18 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:36:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I read the discussion of SF and vote for Lou's modification but: I agree with the observation that this is a sort of elusion of the problem with , a patch somehow. As I already and provocatively suggested in a discussion on TEI-L in a future P6 I would abandon that element to replace it with a optional element and with a strongly typed @type attribute. And I also observe that element has a too wide ontology going from authorial notes inside source text to unconstrained annotation inside the passing through any kind of note due to diverse agency inside the text... just like p, anyway. It is however true, as Lou says, that the probability that someone would tighten the content model of is far smaller than that of

. In general I think that using the same elements in and is a source of ontological (and pragmatical) confusion that should be avoided... Just for the sake of discussion. Fabio 2014-03-11 18:38 GMT+01:00 Lou Burnard : > *Last week my suggestion that it would be convenient if could > appear within kicked off a lot of discussion, which you > can read on the sourceforge tracker at [feature-requests:#500] > > > The discussion went in several directions, as is often the way, and > didn't reach a definite conclusion. However there did seem to be > agreement that adding model.noteLike into the current content model for > would be an innocuous change, if not an enhancement. > Opinions varied as to the rationale for this, and also as to possible > implications for other modifications of the header. > > As this is a real requirement on my part I'd like to press ahead and > make at least that modification before the next release. Does anyone > have any objection to my doing so? > > > * > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:47:02 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:47:02 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 11 Mar 2014, at 17:38, Lou Burnard wrote: > > As this is a real requirement on my part I'd like to press ahead and > make at least that modification before the next release. Does anyone > have any objection to my doing so? The reasoning there is fairly iffy. You?d be the first one normally to hold up your hand and say we shouldn?t make individual changes like this to suit one project, but should look at the bigger picture. Which in this case is the age-old issue of

in the header. I think you?re conflating two distinct things: a) possibly is a good addition to all the

-like contexts in the header. not that convinced myself, but it?s a case to make b) your problem today that you want to constrain

very severely but don?t want that to affect the header. the solution you propose (allowing note in sourceDesc) is uncharacteristically limited and non-scaleable, imho. then there is the possible red herring of c) the issue of how one says ?there is no source? in the mandatory . I refer the court to the Rahtz/Driscoll anti-matter proposal of last autumn?.. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:47:21 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:47:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:36, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > > In general I think that using the same elements in and > is a source of ontological (and pragmatical) confusion that > should be avoided... +1000 -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:54:11 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:54:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 11/03/14 18:52, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:42, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> hmm, actually it gets more complicated... >> >> my testing so far suggests that you cannot get a usable schema from versions prior to whenever it was we made att.global explicit (assuming you want to use att.global attributes of course) > yes, there is that small gotcha. However, the stylesheets have a parameter $autoGlobal, which defaults to false, for this purpose. I suppose you need to check the version > and set that to true before version x.y.z. ?Snot easy to sort that out, though. > -- Amazing what one learns by trying ... yes, this parameter needs to be set for versions prior to 1.9.0 From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:57:41 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:57:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:54, Lou Burnard wrote: >>> my testing so far suggests that you cannot get a usable schema from versions prior to whenever it was we made att.global explicit (assuming you want to use att.global attributes of course) >> yes, there is that small gotcha. However, the stylesheets have a parameter $autoGlobal, which defaults to false, for this purpose. I suppose you need to check the version >> and set that to true before version x.y.z. ?Snot easy to sort that out, though. >> -- > > Amazing what one learns by trying ... yes, this parameter needs to be set for versions prior to 1.9.0 but if you mix and match between versions, you?re up the creek. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Mar 11 14:59:13 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:59:13 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <531F5D01.5080103@uvic.ca> No objections here! Cheers, Martin On 14-03-11 10:38 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > *Last week my suggestion that it would be convenient if could > appear within kicked off a lot of discussion, which you > can read on the sourceforge tracker at [feature-requests:#500] > > > The discussion went in several directions, as is often the way, and > didn't reach a definite conclusion. However there did seem to be > agreement that adding model.noteLike into the current content model for > would be an innocuous change, if not an enhancement. > Opinions varied as to the rationale for this, and also as to possible > implications for other modifications of the header. > > As this is a real requirement on my part I'd like to press ahead and > make at least that modification before the next release. Does anyone > have any objection to my doing so? > > > * > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 14:59:15 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 18:59:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 11/03/14 18:57, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:54, Lou Burnard wrote: > >>>> my testing so far suggests that you cannot get a usable schema from versions prior to whenever it was we made att.global explicit (assuming you want to use att.global attributes of course) >>> yes, there is that small gotcha. However, the stylesheets have a parameter $autoGlobal, which defaults to false, for this purpose. I suppose you need to check the version >>> and set that to true before version x.y.z. ?Snot easy to sort that out, though. >>> -- >> Amazing what one learns by trying ... yes, this parameter needs to be set for versions prior to 1.9.0 > but if you mix and match between versions, you?re up the creek. > > eh? Not sure what you mean by "mix and match". I have an ODD which someone wrote way back when and I want to generate a usable schema from it, is all I want to do. I don't want to have to delve into the madness of their modifications, unless strickly nessa. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 15:13:16 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:13:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:59, Lou Burnard wrote: > > eh? Not sure what you mean by "mix and match". I have an ODD which someone wrote way back when and I want to generate a usable schema from it, is all I want to do. > thats fine. but you _can_ use @source down at a low level, so if you get module "core? from 1.7.0 and ?figures? from 2.1.0, things are not going to be nice. I am not seeing a clean way at the moment to manage that att. global thing -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 15:19:24 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:19:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk>, <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Can't we just manually generate a p5subset.xml for each of those earlier versions (with att.global expanded) and add it to the vault with a note mentioning it wasn't in the original release? James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Sebastian Rahtz Date:2014/03/11 19:13 (GMT+00:00) To: Lou Burnard Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] p5 archaeology On 11 Mar 2014, at 18:59, Lou Burnard wrote: > > eh? Not sure what you mean by "mix and match". I have an ODD which someone wrote way back when and I want to generate a usable schema from it, is all I want to do. > thats fine. but you _can_ use @source down at a low level, so if you get module "core? from 1.7.0 and ?figures? from 2.1.0, things are not going to be nice. I am not seeing a clean way at the moment to manage that att. global thing -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 15:26:40 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:26:40 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk>, <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 11 Mar 2014, at 19:19, James Cummings wrote: > Can't we just manually generate a p5subset.xml for each of those earlier versions (with att.global expanded) and add it to the vault with a note mentioning it wasn't in the original release? you used the ?just? word. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 15:27:42 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 19:27:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <8590C82F-2446-42F7-B79F-64D2112C6235@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk>, <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <8590C82F-2446-42F7-B79F-64D2112C6235@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <531F63AE.1080005@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 11/03/14 19:26, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 11 Mar 2014, at 19:19, James Cummings wrote: > >> Can't we just manually generate a p5subset.xml for each of those earlier versions (with att.global expanded) and add it to the vault with a note mentioning it wasn't in the original release? > you used the ?just? word. > -- > the penalty is that james just has to do it... From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 16:02:36 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:02:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: <531F63AE.1080005@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk>, <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <8590C82F-2446-42F7-B79F-64D2112C6235@it.ox.ac.uk>, <531F63AE.1080005@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2887a0f5-d46d-4492-b997-e67904d4c24a@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Hrmmm. Not sure I can do that on my phone! Maybe I was misunderstanding but I thought you were saying you had to run the xslt against the source in the vault and for each version before 1.9.0 or whatever add the parameter. Is there something I'm missing? James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Lou Burnard Date:2014/03/11 19:27 (GMT+00:00) To: Sebastian Rahtz ,James Cummings Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] p5 archaeology On 11/03/14 19:26, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 11 Mar 2014, at 19:19, James Cummings wrote: > >> Can't we just manually generate a p5subset.xml for each of those earlier versions (with att.global expanded) and add it to the vault with a note mentioning it wasn't in the original release? > you used the ?just? word. > -- > the penalty is that james just has to do it... From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 16:07:58 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:07:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 archaeology In-Reply-To: References: <531F54C0.60000@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1B9CD824-D4C1-460E-9FDB-8DB9507A4928@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5930.4040108@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0F940FB3-D441-4AB7-A7D7-19158DFEF8C3@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5BD3.3070906@retired.ox.ac.uk> <003E209D-B731-494A-ADF4-09F2016BD35A@it.ox.ac.uk> <531F5D03.6040809@retired.ox.ac.uk>, <3261bb70-410c-4847-8d07-0c1170844ca5@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <8590C82F-2446-42F7-B79F-64D2112C6235@it.ox.ac.uk>, <531F63AE.1080005@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <25382724-8389-496c-ae7d-04fc4cac70ba@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 11 Mar 2014, at 20:02, James Cummings wrote: > Hrmmm. Not sure I can do that on my phone! > dont you have an ssh client? > Maybe I was misunderstanding but I thought you were saying you had to run the xslt against the source in the vault and for each version before 1.9.0 or whatever add the parameter. Is there something I'm missing? yes. the magic parameter applies to the odd2* tools, not the subsetting. adding in an att. global to all elements is a new task, and highly questionable (in my view). sure, expand the sources to make the missing p5subset.xml, but dont monkey with it -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 12:04:37 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:04:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> On 11/03/14 18:47, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > The reasoning there is fairly iffy. You?d be the first one normally > to hold up your hand and say we shouldn?t make individual changes like this > to suit one project, but should look at the bigger picture. Which in this case > is the age-old issue of

in the header. I certainly agree with this. > I think you?re conflating two distinct things: > > a) possibly is a good addition to all the

-like contexts in the header. > not that convinced myself, but it?s a case to make I don't actually object to that... I'm generally in favour of in more contexts. Though as with the use of

in the body of a text vs

in the header, I worry that we're somehow stretching the semantics of if using it like this since it turns it into a general purpose container rather than a 'note or annotation'. I may be splitting hairs there though. I wouldn't scream and shout if note was available more places in the header. > b) your problem today that you want to constrain

very severely but don?t > want that to affect the header. the solution you propose (allowing > note in sourceDesc) is uncharacteristically limited and non-scaleable, imho. It might be desirable to be able to limit the content of

in the header (or text), but the you get into the question of whether we really should be having two different elements. I still support the replacement of a highly limited (or whatever) in the header. > then there is the possible red herring of > c) the issue of how one says ?there is no source? in the mandatory . > I refer the court to the Rahtz/Driscoll anti-matter proposal of last autumn?.. If the sometimes overly problematised witterings of the new historicists taught us anything it is that there is *always* a source. I would argue that your TEI might be 'born digital' or 'created from the fantasies of my puerile brain', but then _you_ are the source and everything you have experienced in your life up to that point is an influence on you as that source. If you truly think you create documents ab initio with no sources or influences then I recommend some omphaloskepsis to consider the matter. I'm not suggesting you document all those influences in your , merely that if created from scratch then that this act of creation deserves to be documented. Potentially even *more so* if it has no 'source'.

Created by Sebastian Rahtz on 2014-03-12

. I'm not saying that author/date aren't recorded elsewhere but documenting the source of this TEI document is important metadata and we shouldn't ever encourage people not to provide it. This is one of the reasons that having in is a good thing. If we had made, for example, legal to indicate "there is no source but the person listed as in the titleStmt" then this would encourage people to do this even when there was a source. ("Oh, I'll go fill that in later...") This would be, IMHO, a bad thing. We can't make people do good things, but we can try to prevent them doing bad things. My two pence, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 12:54:35 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:54:35 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> On 14-03-12 09:04 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 11/03/14 18:47, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> b) your problem today that you want to constrain

very severely but don?t >> want that to affect the header. the solution you propose (allowing >> note in sourceDesc) is uncharacteristically limited and non-scaleable, imho. > > It might be desirable to be able to limit the content of

in > the header (or text), but the you get into the question of > whether we really should be having two different elements. I > still support the replacement of a highly limited (or > whatever) in the header. I really don't like the idea of two separate elements. What I'd prefer is that Pure ODD enable us to define the content model of elements based on context; that this be convertible into models based on complexTypes in XSD; that it be convertible into Schematron in RelaxNG; and that DTDs leap into the dustbin of history. I know this is a bit distant, but I would like us to consider whether it should be one of the aims of moving to P6. Cheers, Martin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 13:29:35 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 17:29:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> On 12/03/14 16:54, Martin Holmes wrote: >> It might be desirable to be able to limit the content of

in >> the header (or text), but the you get into the question of >> whether we really should be having two different elements. I >> still support the replacement of a highly limited (or >> whatever) in the header. > > I really don't like the idea of two separate elements. What I'd prefer > is that Pure ODD enable us to define the content model of elements based > on context; that this be convertible into models based on complexTypes > in XSD; that it be convertible into Schematron in RelaxNG; and that DTDs > leap into the dustbin of history. I think I would prefer that as well. I can understand that it might be confusing for some people ("I can put element X in my paragraph here, but why not there?!"), but I think we could live with that. And you know I'd prefer if we didn't support DTDs any more. > I know this is a bit distant, but I would like us to consider whether it > should be one of the aims of moving to P6. Do you feel this is a change that necessitates a move to P6? My reading of the Birnbaum Doctrine (http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw09.xml) doesn't make that necessary. (Though it is, of course, a significant break of backwards compatibility.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 13:57:48 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:57:48 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> On 14-03-12 10:29 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 12/03/14 16:54, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> It might be desirable to be able to limit the content of

in >>> the header (or text), but the you get into the question of >>> whether we really should be having two different elements. I >>> still support the replacement of a highly limited (or >>> whatever) in the header. >> >> I really don't like the idea of two separate elements. What I'd prefer >> is that Pure ODD enable us to define the content model of elements based >> on context; that this be convertible into models based on complexTypes >> in XSD; that it be convertible into Schematron in RelaxNG; and that DTDs >> leap into the dustbin of history. > > I think I would prefer that as well. I can understand that it > might be confusing for some people ("I can put element X in my > paragraph here, but why not there?!"), but I think we could live > with that. And you know I'd prefer if we didn't support DTDs any > more. > >> I know this is a bit distant, but I would like us to consider whether it >> should be one of the aims of moving to P6. > > Do you feel this is a change that necessitates a move to P6? My > reading of the Birnbaum Doctrine > (http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Working/tcw09.xml) > doesn't make that necessary. (Though it is, of course, a > significant break of backwards compatibility.) I think dropping DTDs would mean a move to P6. Lots of people still use them, and will complain if they disappear from P5. Whether the Pure ODD stuff justifies a P6 would depend on whether we actually made use of that functionality in the standard. If we ourselves define two separate content models for

, one for the header and one for , then I think the backward-compatibility problem would be significant enough to warrant a change. If we just provide this functionality for customizers to use themselves, then it wouldn't. So we could envisage a process where we put the changes in place to support this, in the existing P5 universe, without using it ourselves; then when we come to P6, we can take full advantage of it to build a more sophisticated document model. Cheers, Martin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 14:14:57 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:14:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> I am unsure whether I believe in a) have a system for different content models for

in header and in text or b) making a new element for the header i incline to both. i.e.it is good to get a) working for when we need it, but actually I don?t think its the right answer here, we need the neutral ?text container? element for use in the header. Allowing just obfuscates matters further in my book, by diluting to a catchall container with no real semantics at all. BUT if we went to not having

in the header, and dropping DTDs, we?d be in serious trouble with our users. Declaring backward incompatible P6 effectively forks the TEI, and might double the maintenance. So I vote for * doing nothing here, Lou?s is just sticking plaster on a weeping sore * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

* working towards a solution whereby we have a separate

for the header, with different semantics and content model, but actually call it

:-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 14:19:10 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:19:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> On 12/03/14 17:57, Martin Holmes wrote: > I think dropping DTDs would mean a move to P6. Lots of people still use > them, and will complain if they disappear from P5. We've never added it to our list of thoughts about things that might need P6 at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/P6-dev There is a difference between us stopping to cater for DTDs inherently in our releases and making it impossible to generate a DTD from the (potentially lossy) Relax or W3C Schemas. I'd like ODD to be able to document our intention of how we are using the TEI even in cases where that is unable to be expressed in any current schema language. > Whether the Pure ODD stuff justifies a P6 would depend on whether we > actually made use of that functionality in the standard. If we ourselves > define two separate content models for

, one for the header and one > for , then I think the backward-compatibility problem would be > significant enough to warrant a change. If we just provide this > functionality for customizers to use themselves, then it wouldn't. Yes, that is what I mean, if EpiDoc, for example, then decided to make use of it for their community then that isn't a problem, likewise if Lou decides to use it for a project -- as long as what they are doing, of course, provides a pure subset. ;-) > So we could envisage a process where we put the changes in place to > support this, in the existing P5 universe, without using it ourselves; > then when we come to P6, we can take full advantage of it to build a > more sophisticated document model. By 'using it ourselves' you mean enforcing it in tei_all? Not doing that, but allowing it in stricter customisations seems fine to me. (i.e. if it is allowed in tei_all then we aren't breaking backwards compatibility yes.... customisations have always been free to remove elements from content models and rewrite them as tighter subsets.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 14:21:31 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:21:31 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320A5AB.1060702@it.ox.ac.uk> On 12/03/14 18:14, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > * working towards a solution whereby we have a separate

> for the header, with different semantics and content model, > but actually call it

:-} I would, as I think Martin suggests, work towards a solution where we have enabled doing this in Pure ODD but not implement it in tei_all. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 14:30:49 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 11:30:49 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> On 14-03-12 11:14 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I am unsure whether I believe in > > a) have a system for different content models for

in header and in text > or > b) making a new element for the header > > i incline to both. i.e.it is good to get a) working for when we need it, but > actually I don?t think its the right answer here, we need the neutral > ?text container? element for use in the header. We already have for that, I think. The situation presumably is that people feel they are writing in paragraphs, or should be able to do so, not in "anonymous blocks", even when they're writing in the header. > Allowing > just obfuscates matters further in my book, by diluting > to a catchall container with no real semantics at all. I have some sympathy with this. At the same time, I do tend to like more elements to be available in more places as a general principle. > BUT if we went to not having

in the header, and dropping DTDs, > we?d be in serious trouble with our users. Declaring backward incompatible > P6 effectively forks the TEI, and might double the maintenance. It's no different from moving from P4 to P5: there's a new version, we're mainly focused on developing that, and we do maintenance update to the old one for a specified period of time. Meanwhile, encouraging people to move away from DTDs is doing them a favour, but no-one is required to. I still have one P4 project that works fine, and I'm not planning to migrate it in the near future. > So I vote for > * doing nothing here, Lou?s is just sticking plaster on a weeping sore > * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

This is the key, really. Very few users know that the Schematron exists, and even fewer know how to write it. It's difficult to know how to overcome this, because it requires XPath skills, and I can't imagine any sort of easy-peasy Roma interface that would make it accessible to novices. > * working towards a solution whereby we have a separate

> for the header, with different semantics and content model, > but actually call it

:-} Yes, definitely. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 15:03:47 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:03:47 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320AF93.2070808@uvic.ca> On 14-03-12 11:19 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 12/03/14 17:57, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I think dropping DTDs would mean a move to P6. Lots of people still use >> them, and will complain if they disappear from P5. > > We've never added it to our list of thoughts about things that > might need P6 at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/P6-dev I've added it now. > There is a difference between us stopping to cater for DTDs > inherently in our releases and making it impossible to generate a > DTD from the (potentially lossy) Relax or W3C Schemas. I'd like > ODD to be able to document our intention of how we are using the > TEI even in cases where that is unable to be expressed in any > current schema language. Yes to the latter -- whether a schema language, or combination thereof, can support what we imagine for Pure ODD is partly a matter of time and partly of ingenuity (it's amazing what you can do with Schematron), but I do like the idea that we imagine first and implement at leisure. But the fact that we _could_ provide DTDs with impoverished functionality (enabling people to produce TEI files which validate against their DTDs but not against tei_all.rng) is not a reason to do so. >> Whether the Pure ODD stuff justifies a P6 would depend on whether we >> actually made use of that functionality in the standard. If we ourselves >> define two separate content models for

, one for the header and one >> for , then I think the backward-compatibility problem would be >> significant enough to warrant a change. If we just provide this >> functionality for customizers to use themselves, then it wouldn't. > > Yes, that is what I mean, if EpiDoc, for example, then decided to > make use of it for their community then that isn't a problem, > likewise if Lou decides to use it for a project -- as long as > what they are doing, of course, provides a pure subset. ;-) That only matters if they want to be compliant. But Pure ODD mechanisms could allow two approaches: anything goes (put

in

if you want), or TEI-compliant (constrain your

in different ways depending on context, but make sure it's a subset). An ODD processor could enforce this. >> So we could envisage a process where we put the changes in place to >> support this, in the existing P5 universe, without using it ourselves; >> then when we come to P6, we can take full advantage of it to build a >> more sophisticated document model. > > By 'using it ourselves' you mean enforcing it in tei_all? Yes: if we were to take advantage of the feature for generating the standard TEI schemas, I think we'd have to move to P6, but if we just make it a tool for customizers, we wouldn't. Cheers, Martin > Not > doing that, but allowing it in stricter customisations seems fine > to me. (i.e. if it is allowed in tei_all then we aren't breaking > backwards compatibility yes.... customisations have always been > free to remove elements from content models and rewrite them as > tighter subsets.) > > -James > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 15:24:14 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 19:24:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5320B45E.1010900@retired.ox.ac.uk> There is another simple solution to the "p-in-header is different from p-in-text" problem out there in the wild, which I've been meaning to throw into the mix. This is what they do in the DTA : they have a different ODD for the header and for the text. Both define valid subsets of tei-all, of course, but each generates a different schema, which you can then use to validate the header and the text separately. I've been meaning to see how effectively you could do this with a single ODD containing two schema specs. I still want to put inside though cos I think it really IS a note. Some further comments below: On 12/03/14 18:30, Martin Holmes wrote: > On 14-03-12 11:14 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> I am unsure whether I believe in >> >> a) have a system for different content models for

in header and in text >> or >> b) making a new element for the header >> >> i incline to both. i.e.it is good to get a) working for when we need it, but >> actually I don?t think its the right answer here, we need the neutral >> ?text container? element for use in the header. > We already have for that, I think. The situation presumably is that > people feel they are writing in paragraphs, or should be able to do so, > not in "anonymous blocks", even when they're writing in the header. I'm not sure that I understand this point at all. The difference between

and is not a matter of how people feel about the throes of composition, surely. An is just a block of text which might be considered prose or verse or anything. A

is a block of text forming part of a prose narrative. As I said on the ticket, there are some elements in the header which definitely contain this kind of

and others which arguably don't, or need not. Note that just saying "use in the header and

in the text" though initially attractive doesn't help the fundamental problem, because there are definitely texts (e.g. the Bible) where the narrative is constructed in terms of things for which is pretty much the best solution >> Allowing >> just obfuscates matters further in my book, by diluting >> to a catchall container with no real semantics at all. > I have some sympathy with this. At the same time, I do tend to like more > elements to be available in more places as a general principle. I disagree that my proposed use of is an obfuscation. It's an annotation on the content of to say "there is nothing to say about the source" rather than providing a bibliographic description of the source. is for representing annotations. I suspect that much of Sebastian's antipathy to the idea here is fueled by anxiety about how to render the wretched beast. >> BUT if we went to not having

in the header, and dropping DTDs, >> we?d be in serious trouble with our users. Declaring backward incompatible >> P6 effectively forks the TEI, and might double the maintenance. > It's no different from moving from P4 to P5: there's a new version, > we're mainly focused on developing that, and we do maintenance update to > the old one for a specified period of time. Meanwhile, encouraging > people to move away from DTDs is doing them a favour, but no-one is > required to. I still have one P4 project that works fine, and I'm not > planning to migrate it in the near future. This whole DTD support issue has really NOTHING to do with the issue we are discussing, but just for the record, I think if we did remove support for DTDs, that would definitely be a move to P6. However unless Brussels requires us to do so, I see no need for a referendum on the topic. (This is an obscure reference to today's British political gossip) >> So I vote for >> * doing nothing here, Lou?s is just sticking plaster on a weeping sore >> * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

See above for using : is the hon member suggesting we should just leave weeping sores to dribble on when there's a perfectly effective plaister we could apply? From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 15:35:53 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:35:53 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320B45E.1010900@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> <5320B45E.1010900@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5320B719.1010905@uvic.ca> On 14-03-12 12:24 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > > There is another simple solution to the "p-in-header is different from > p-in-text" problem out there in the wild, which I've been meaning to > throw into the mix. This is what they do in the DTA : they have a > different ODD for the header and for the text. Both define valid subsets > of tei-all, of course, but each generates a different schema, which you > can then use to validate the header and the text separately. Intriguing. How does it actually work? Do you have to put the header in a different namespace? Cheers, Martin > > I've been meaning to see how effectively you could do this with a single > ODD containing two schema specs. > > I still want to put inside though cos I think it > really IS a note. > > Some further comments below: > > > On 12/03/14 18:30, Martin Holmes wrote: >> On 14-03-12 11:14 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> I am unsure whether I believe in >>> >>> a) have a system for different content models for

in header and in text >>> or >>> b) making a new element for the header >>> >>> i incline to both. i.e.it is good to get a) working for when we need it, but >>> actually I don?t think its the right answer here, we need the neutral >>> ?text container? element for use in the header. >> We already have for that, I think. The situation presumably is that >> people feel they are writing in paragraphs, or should be able to do so, >> not in "anonymous blocks", even when they're writing in the header. > > I'm not sure that I understand this point at all. The difference between >

and is not a matter of how people feel about the throes of > composition, surely. An is just a block of text which might be > considered prose or verse or anything. A

is a block of text forming > part of a prose narrative. As I said on the ticket, there are some > elements in the header which definitely contain this kind of

and > others which arguably don't, or need not. > > Note that just saying "use in the header and

in the text" > though initially attractive doesn't help the fundamental problem, > because there are definitely texts (e.g. the Bible) where the narrative > is constructed in terms of things for which is pretty much the best > solution >>> Allowing >>> just obfuscates matters further in my book, by diluting >>> to a catchall container with no real semantics at all. >> I have some sympathy with this. At the same time, I do tend to like more >> elements to be available in more places as a general principle. > > I disagree that my proposed use of is an obfuscation. It's an > annotation on the content of to say "there is nothing to say > about the source" rather than providing a bibliographic description of > the source. is for representing annotations. I suspect that much > of Sebastian's antipathy to the idea here is fueled by anxiety about how > to render the wretched beast. >>> BUT if we went to not having

in the header, and dropping DTDs, >>> we?d be in serious trouble with our users. Declaring backward incompatible >>> P6 effectively forks the TEI, and might double the maintenance. >> It's no different from moving from P4 to P5: there's a new version, >> we're mainly focused on developing that, and we do maintenance update to >> the old one for a specified period of time. Meanwhile, encouraging >> people to move away from DTDs is doing them a favour, but no-one is >> required to. I still have one P4 project that works fine, and I'm not >> planning to migrate it in the near future. > > This whole DTD support issue has really NOTHING to do with the issue we > are discussing, but just for the record, I think if we did remove > support for DTDs, that would definitely be a move to P6. However unless > Brussels requires us to do so, I see no need for a referendum on the > topic. (This is an obscure reference to today's British political gossip) >>> So I vote for >>> * doing nothing here, Lou?s is just sticking plaster on a weeping sore >>> * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

> > See above for using : is the hon member suggesting we should just > leave weeping sores to dribble on when there's a perfectly effective > plaister we could apply? > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Mar 12 17:21:12 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:21:12 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last call for edits to telco minutes Message-ID: <5320CFC8.6090403@uvic.ca> HI all, Just a reminder to make any changes you need to in the minutes from last week: There are some question marks where I didn't hear things properly, and gaps, so please take a look and see if you can clarify those bits. Cheers, Martin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 18:22:04 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:22:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320B45E.1010900@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> <5320B45E.1010900@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <91aa6cab-93ed-4351-ba7a-6fc8d3d03952@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 12 Mar 2014, at 19:24, Lou Burnard wrote: > > There is another simple solution to the "p-in-header is different from > p-in-text" problem out there in the wild, which I've been meaning to > throw into the mix. This is what they do in the DTA : they have a > different ODD for the header and for the text thats a slightly odd way of doing it. they store themas separate files? > I've been meaning to see how effectively you could do this with a single > ODD containing two schema specs. easy? you can make good use of there > I still want to put inside though cos I think it > really IS a note. to me, a is an aside, an annotation, a byway from a main flow. I fiind the idea of the entire content of something being a note rather strange. What is the note attached to? nothingness? > ?. > Note that just saying "use in the header and

in the text" > though initially attractive doesn't help the fundamental problem, > because there are definitely texts (e.g. the Bible) where the narrative > is constructed in terms of things for which is pretty much the best > solution and the same argument applies to . sooner or later someone wants to distinguish between notes in the header and notes in the text. >>> note> is for representing annotations. quite. what is it an annotation of? >>> I suspect that much > of Sebastian's antipathy to the idea here is fueled by anxiety about how > to render the wretched beast. doesn?t bother me guv. I?d seldom render the header anyway except maybe in the colophon of an ebook. Yes, your wretched note will probably cause all sorts of algorithms to fail, but I am used to that. ? >>> * doing nothing here, Lou?s is just sticking plaster on a weeping sore >>> * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

> > See above for using : is the hon member suggesting we should just > leave weeping sores to dribble on when there's a perfectly effective > plaister we could apply? if I thought would clear up the infection for good, no problem. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 18:22:04 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:22:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320AF93.2070808@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320AF93.2070808@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2014, at 19:03, Martin Holmes wrote: > the fact that we _could_ provide DTDs with impoverished functionality > (enabling people to produce TEI files which validate against their DTDs > but not against tei_all.rng) is not a reason to do so. We have been doing just this for many years. tei_all.dtd is less constrained than tei_all.rng. Try validating with the DTD and the RELAXNG schema, for example; and it?s limited to datatyping. With regard to Pure ODD: unless I am going mad, we have not yet defined a notation for how to express ?p in sourcedesc has a different content model from other p?. So it is not that Pure ODD isn?t implemented yet, it isn?t defined yet. I may be not remembering things, though. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 18:22:07 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 22:22:07 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <28B1FE9B-4CA3-44DF-98FD-96CAC85E4F37@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A7D9.90204@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 12 Mar 2014, at 18:30, Martin Holmes wrote: >> * recommending people use Schematron to constrain

> > This is the key, really. Very few users know that the Schematron exists, and even fewer know how to write it. It's difficult to know how to overcome this, because it requires XPath skills, and I can't imagine any sort of easy-peasy Roma interface that would make it accessible to novices. and you think the people who can?t write Schematron can write a Pure ODD construct which has different models for

? if you can?t grok XPath at all, frankly you can?t expect to get far in working with XML at the level where you talk about constraints. after all, one suspects that most people dont know or care anything about schemas or constraints of any kind. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 12 20:45:45 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 00:45:45 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320AF93.2070808@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5320FFB9.3080509@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 12/03/14 22:22, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > With regard to Pure ODD: unless I am going mad, we have not > yet defined a notation for how to express ?p in sourcedesc has a different > content model from other p?. So it is not that Pure ODD isn?t implemented > yet, it isn?t defined yet. I may be not remembering things, though. > -- Maybe I can jog your memory. "Suppose, however, that an XPath-valued @context attribute were available on any of the elements , , or restricting its applicability. Thus, the content model for

might say something like to indicate that a

within a element must contain one or more elements only, whereas one within a TEI Header must use the existing macro definition limitedContent". (Rahtz and Burnard, "Reviewing the TEI ODD system", 2013) From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 13 04:01:35 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:01:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] note in sourceDesc In-Reply-To: <5320FFB9.3080509@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <531F4A01.90506@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53208595.5090206@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320914B.3000601@uvic.ca> <5320997F.5080009@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320A01C.2020304@uvic.ca> <5320A51E.9010106@it.ox.ac.uk> <5320AF93.2070808@uvic.ca> , <5320FFB9.3080509@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <56cd694f-4545-44b2-980a-b97215ea87bf@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> > > "Suppose, however, that an XPath-valued @context attribute were > available on any of the elements > , , or restricting its applicability. > Thus, the content model for

might say something like > > > > > to indicate that a

within a element must contain one > or more elements only, whereas one within a TEI Header must > use the existing macro definition limitedContent". It's a fair cop :-) I wish I had any idea how to start with implementation of this. Sebastian From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 13 08:01:44 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:01:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TE Board Meeting Message-ID: <53219E28.4020203@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi TEI Council, I was going to report to the TEI Board about our plans for meetings and that we're awaiting news on the TEI DH2014 Hackathon. Is there anything else you feel I should be informing the Board about? Best, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Mar 14 11:41:41 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:41:41 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Meeting minutes posted: everyone has actions Message-ID: <53232335.40303@uvic.ca> Hi all, The minutes from the last meeting are available here: Everyone has Actions Arising, and you probably already forgot about yours, so please check the Actions Arising section. Cheers, Martin From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Mon Mar 17 15:13:52 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 15:13:52 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI hackathon accepted for DH2014 Message-ID: We were accepted. No information on date, yet. --elli From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Fri Mar 21 09:53:08 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:53:08 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Hackathon at DH2014 Message-ID: Hi all, this is the call for participation that we will be sending out to as many venues as we can muster for the hackathon. Is it possible to put the text up on a part of the TEI site, so the URL is tweet-able? the date is July 7, which leaves a whole day to attend one of the many other workshops that are being offered. The conference opens on the evening of the 8th. Please comment today, as we'll begin to send it out this weekend. So far we plan on sending via: tei-l humanist markup-l centernet the tei mailing list (conference attendees, etc) hastac twitter I think if anyone has connections to relevant lists that will reach people in France, Switzerland, Germany or other countries whence would be easier to attend - we should target those as well. please send suggestions, And when we start disseminating, don't hesitate to send to loc thanks, --elli ------------------ Call for Participation We are inviting applications to participate in the TEI Hackathon Workshop that will be held on July 7, 2014, as a pre-conference session at DH2014 ( http://dh2014.org/). Digital humanists, librarians, publishers, and many others use the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) Guidelines to mark up electronic texts, and over time have created a critical mass of XML ? some conforming to known subsets of the TEI Guidelines, some to individual customizations; in some cases intricate and dense, in others lean and expedient; some enriched with extensive external metadata, others with details marked explicitly in the text. The fruits of this labor are most often destined for display online or on paper (!), indexing, and more rarely, visualisation. Techniques of processing this markup beyond display and indexing are less well-understood and not accessible to the broad community of users, however, and programmers sometimes regard TEI XML as over-complex and hard to process. What We?ll Do The goal of the hackathon is to make significant progress on a few projects during one day of work (from 9am to roughly 5.30pm). Possible projects might include but are not limited to: - applying visualisation to TEI documents or schemas/ODDs (e.g. visualizing the TEI conceptual model) - mining a large corpus of texts for some data facet and visualising the results - rendering complex markup in an innovative and playful way - writing input or output filters for existing bits of software - extending existing TEI software to take advantage of external resources such as Zotero - adding a TEI mode to a web editor - Programming for multilingual resources All participants will begin discussing the projects that have been proposed before the hackathon, and select a small number to be worked on. More concrete discussion about tools and specs will take place before the date of the hackathon so participants can hit the ground running during the hackathon. On the day of the hackathon, participants will form groups, and work on their projects. Workshop organizers and invited experts will be on hand to consult on TEI details and strategies of dealing with them. The organizers will provide sample materials if needed. Participants This workshop is intended for reasonably experienced DH practitioners, who may not hitherto have experimented with TEI XML, as well as those who have already been using TEI and developing TEI tools. If you don?t fall into either of these categories, but you have a project that is appropriate for the hackathon, please apply or contact us directly. Application process Applicants will email their application with the following information to hackathon at tei-c.org. - Name - Affiliation - Contact information (email) - Skills and experience (to help select projects) - One or two suggested projects. These don?t have to be described in great detail, as they will be discussed and shaped further in June. - Deadline: Midnight (EST) April 17 (applications received after this date will be considered on a rolling basis only if space remains available) - Notification: by April 30 The selection will be carried out by the programme committee based on variety of expertise, interest in challenges with broad application, geographical and gender balance. Organizers and Experts Please don?t hesitate to contact the organizers (or hackathon at tei-c.org)if you have any questions. Programme committee: - Hugh Cayless (hugh.cayless at duke.edu), TEI Technical Council - Research programmer for the Duke Collaboratory for Classics Computing - Arianna Ciula (ariananciula at roehampton.ac.uk), TEI Board of Directors - Research Facilitator (Humanities) at the University of Roehampton - James Cummings (james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk), TEI Technical Council (chair) - Senior Digital Research Specialist in Academic IT at University of Oxford?s IT Services - Elli Mylonas (elli.mylonas at brown.edu), TEI Technical Council - Senior Digital Humanities Librarian at Brown University - Sebastian Rahtz (sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk), TEI Technical Council - Director of Academic IT at University of Oxford?s IT Services Other TEI and DH experts - Syd Bauman, Senior XML programmer analyst at Northeastern University Digital Scholarship Group - Alexander Czmiel, researcher in Digital Humanities at the Berlin-Brandenburg Academy of Sciences and Humanities Follow up Participants will have the option of applying for a grant of up to $1000 from the Text Encoding Initiative Consortium to allow them to finish their work and make it available to others. Details for this competition will be provided after the workshop has taken place. This workshop is being sponsored by the TEI Consortium ( http://www.tei-c.org/) which will provide lunch, coffee and snacks. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 21 10:22:33 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:22:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Hackathon at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: maybe say up front that we?ll provide sustenance? so replace > > The organizers will provide sample materials if needed. with ?The organisers will provide refreshments during the day, will make sample texts available if needed, and will help with software setup where possible. Participants will need to bring their own laptop computers." -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Mar 21 11:08:09 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:08:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Hackathon at DH2014 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <532C55D9.6050607@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 21/03/14 13:53, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > I think if anyone has connections to relevant lists that will reach people > in France, Switzerland, Germany or other countries whence would be easier > to attend - we should target those as well. please send suggestions, dh at groupes.renater.fr tei-fr at cru.fr would seem to be the relevant fr lists; i can post there once you have a finalised text From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Fri Mar 21 11:58:02 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 16:58:02 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Hackathon at DH2014 In-Reply-To: <532C55D9.6050607@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <532C55D9.6050607@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I can take care if Italian mail-list and some Facebook groups (although TEI FB group is not so popular at the moment) Fabio. PS. oh... congrats for successful proposal :-) 2014-03-21 16:08 GMT+01:00 Lou Burnard : > On 21/03/14 13:53, Mylonas, Elli wrote: >> I think if anyone has connections to relevant lists that will reach people >> in France, Switzerland, Germany or other countries whence would be easier >> to attend - we should target those as well. please send suggestions, > > dh at groupes.renater.fr > tei-fr at cru.fr > > would seem to be the relevant fr lists; i can post there once you have a > finalised text > > > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Mon Mar 24 13:54:13 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 13:54:13 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI member's discount / Oxygen In-Reply-To: References: <532C55D9.6050607@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1395683653.22821.98292125.2D8ADC2D@webmail.messagingengine.com> I see that the discount 'coupon' code for Oxygen listed at http://members.tei-c.org/MemberInfo is said to be good only through the end of 2013. Does anyone know if there is a new code? or if the discount has itself expired? pfs -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From s.bauman at neu.edu Mon Mar 24 15:04:54 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 15:04:54 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI member's discount / Oxygen In-Reply-To: <1395683653.22821.98292125.2D8ADC2D@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <532C55D9.6050607@retired.ox.ac.uk> <1395683653.22821.98292125.2D8ADC2D@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <21296.33238.339342.138989@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Back when I was handling this it was a "permanent" discount -- SyncRO never had any intention of removing it -- but the code itself had to be updated every year. I do not know what the deal is now, but treasurer John Unsworth is most likely the person to ask. > > I see that the discount 'coupon' code for Oxygen listed at > http://members.tei-c.org/MemberInfo > is said to be good only through the end of 2013. Does anyone know > if there is a new code? or if the discount has itself expired? From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Mar 25 00:40:24 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 00:40:24 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] sending out workshop call Message-ID: Hi all: I've sent the workshop cfp to Humanist, TEI-L and Markup-L. I'll do boston area dh i the morning. I'd like to post the call as is on a wiki page so we can refer to a URL. I don't think I can make wiki pages, although perhaps I haven't seen how to do so. Please send the announcement out to the lists you've all mentioned, Thank you. --elli From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 25 06:18:23 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:18:23 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] sending out workshop call In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <533157EF.30605@it.ox.ac.uk> On 25/03/14 04:40, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > I'd like to post the call as is on a wiki page so we can refer to a URL. I > don't think I can make wiki pages, although perhaps I haven't seen how to > do so. Hi Elli, You just need to register on the wiki to be able to make wiki pages. Go to the Login page and click on 'Request an account', fill in the form. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Tue Mar 25 18:59:11 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:59:11 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Hackathon wiki page Message-ID: Hi all, I've made a page on the tei wiki with the text of the hackathon call. Please feel free to tweet and link. It's linked from "current events" http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/DH2014Hackathon please repost the TEI-L msg I sent out to lists as mentioned earlier, and send out some tweets! --elli From stadler at edirom.de Wed Mar 26 09:34:37 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 14:34:37 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] report on proposal Message-ID: Dear Council fellows, dear Martin, one of my actions from the last conf call was to report on the proposal we are currently preparing with the Correspondence SIG task force ?correspDesc?. I will do so in some brevity just to outline our roadmap and to point you at the resources we already have. I copied Martin in since one of my questions is whether to turn this into a workshop for the TEI MM at Northwestern (jump to ?Workshop? if you want to skip the report). Ok, you might know that the element has been on the SIG?s agenda since its first meeting in 2008. The general idea is to have a dedicated section in the teiHeader for correspondence specific meta data such as sender, addressee, etc. This stems back from the DALF guidelines [1] and was picked up by our own project WeGA [2]. There are more issues to encoding correspondence (postscript, signed/salute etc.) but with our current task force we decided to focus on the meta data first since it seemed less uncontroversial and wouldn?t break current schemas. Apart from creating extra TEI elements and allowing the full fledged standard to be applied to letters and the like we are also looking into extracting a minimal subset for what we call ?correspondence interchange format?. The basic idea is to have a simple catalogue (a list) of correspondence items for each repository which can be harvested by a central web service, thus interconnecting letter collections by persons, dates and places. What we?ve done so far is documented at [3], and ODD files and examples can be grabbed at [4]. Roadmap The schema is more or less settled (well, there are still some issues) and right now we are trying to put together and polish the prose descriptions. We will then create a formal feature request for discussion at the Oxford f2f. Workshop I think the Genetic Encoding group did a good job in organizing a workshop after the approval for disseminating its work. Surely, I don?t want to anticipate Council?s decision on this proposal but if it *was* accepted I think it would be nice to have a workshop for this?! (If we had a workshop, I think we could skip the SIG meeting) Well, I?m just pushing these ideas out since it?s almost end of March ? please excuse any shortcomings. Looking forward to your feedback and all the best Peter [1] http://ctb.kantl.be/project/dalf/dalfdoc/index.html [2] https://github.com/Edirom/WeGA-ODD [3] http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/SIG:Correspondence/task-force-correspDesc [4] https://github.com/TEI-Correspondence-SIG/correspDesc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140326/69a0c829/attachment.bin From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Mar 27 07:14:04 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:14:04 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] report on proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think it is a good proposal. Only two question: 1) I'm not an expert, but in general I tink interoperability is good. Did you see the possible intersection wit EAD i this area? 2) I feel a little bit puzzled by the insertion of this kind of metadata inside sourceDesc (in general I think the uses of this section in TEI are rather diverse e semantically non coherent). Why not in profileDesc (maybe I'm missing something though)? Fabio 2014-03-26 14:34 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : > Dear Council fellows, dear Martin, > > one of my actions from the last conf call was to report on the proposal we are currently preparing with the Correspondence SIG task force ?correspDesc?. I will do so in some brevity just to outline our roadmap and to point you at the resources we already have. I copied Martin in since one of my questions is whether to turn this into a workshop for the TEI MM at Northwestern (jump to ?Workshop? if you want to skip the report). > > Ok, you might know that the element has been on the SIG?s agenda since its first meeting in 2008. The general idea is to have a dedicated section in the teiHeader for correspondence specific meta data such as sender, addressee, etc. This stems back from the DALF guidelines [1] and was picked up by our own project WeGA [2]. There are more issues to encoding correspondence (postscript, signed/salute etc.) but with our current task force we decided to focus on the meta data first since it seemed less uncontroversial and wouldn?t break current schemas. > Apart from creating extra TEI elements and allowing the full fledged standard to be applied to letters and the like we are also looking into extracting a minimal subset for what we call ?correspondence interchange format?. The basic idea is to have a simple catalogue (a list) of correspondence items for each repository which can be harvested by a central web service, thus interconnecting letter collections by persons, dates and places. > What we?ve done so far is documented at [3], and ODD files and examples can be grabbed at [4]. > > Roadmap > The schema is more or less settled (well, there are still some issues) and right now we are trying to put together and polish the prose descriptions. > We will then create a formal feature request for discussion at the Oxford f2f. > > Workshop > I think the Genetic Encoding group did a good job in organizing a workshop after the approval for disseminating its work. Surely, I don?t want to anticipate Council?s decision on this proposal but if it *was* accepted I think it would be nice to have a workshop for this?! (If we had a workshop, I think we could skip the SIG meeting) > Well, I?m just pushing these ideas out since it?s almost end of March ? please excuse any shortcomings. > > Looking forward to your feedback and all the best > Peter > > [1] http://ctb.kantl.be/project/dalf/dalfdoc/index.html > [2] https://github.com/Edirom/WeGA-ODD > [3] http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/SIG:Correspondence/task-force-correspDesc > [4] https://github.com/TEI-Correspondence-SIG/correspDesc > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Mar 27 16:10:40 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 21:10:40 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Hackathon wiki page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sent the announce to Italian AIUCD list and spammed a bit on Facebook. By the way I just gave my 300 CHF to DH2014, so I'll be there, if some help or support is needed. Fabio 2014-03-25 23:59 GMT+01:00 Mylonas, Elli : > Hi all, I've made a page on the tei wiki with the text of the hackathon > call. Please feel free to tweet and link. > > It's linked from "current events" > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/DH2014Hackathon > > please repost the TEI-L msg I sent out to lists as mentioned earlier, and > send out some tweets! > > --elli > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Tue Apr 1 16:32:29 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 22:32:29 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] report on proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68C1FD01-BD1A-4B70-B508-D6F667DCDD5E@edirom.de> Hi Fabio, many thanks for your comments and encouragement! We (correspDesc taskforce) had a telco last Friday and discussed your points (minutes to follow). Am 27.03.2014 um 12:14 schrieb Fabio Ciotti: > I think it is a good proposal. Only two question: > 1) I'm not an expert, but in general I tink interoperability is good. > Did you see the possible intersection wit EAD i this area? Well, not EAD specifically but we are looking at Europeana right now. I think establishing interoperability at that level would really rock ? but I don?t have any details yet. Anyway, we will have a look at EAD now as well and in the best case this will merge with our Europeana efforts. > 2) I feel a little bit puzzled by the insertion of this kind of > metadata inside sourceDesc (in general I think the uses of this > section in TEI are rather diverse e semantically non coherent). Why > not in profileDesc (maybe I'm missing something though)? No, that?s a good point and I know e.g. the "TEI Legal Encoding Extensions" have gone with . Still, we believe the information to be captured within is of bibliographic nature (at least to some extent ? e.g. letters are frequently cited by date, sender and addressee). So, we made member of model.biblLike which as a consequence makes appear in (but not only!). Best Peter [1] http://wulibraries.typepad.com/digitalgateway/2010/11/tei-legal-encoding-extensions-first-draft.html > 2014-03-26 14:34 GMT+01:00 Peter Stadler : >> Dear Council fellows, dear Martin, >> >> one of my actions from the last conf call was to report on the proposal we are currently preparing with the Correspondence SIG task force ?correspDesc?. I will do so in some brevity just to outline our roadmap and to point you at the resources we already have. I copied Martin in since one of my questions is whether to turn this into a workshop for the TEI MM at Northwestern (jump to ?Workshop? if you want to skip the report). >> >> Ok, you might know that the element has been on the SIG?s agenda since its first meeting in 2008. The general idea is to have a dedicated section in the teiHeader for correspondence specific meta data such as sender, addressee, etc. This stems back from the DALF guidelines [1] and was picked up by our own project WeGA [2]. There are more issues to encoding correspondence (postscript, signed/salute etc.) but with our current task force we decided to focus on the meta data first since it seemed less uncontroversial and wouldn?t break current schemas. >> Apart from creating extra TEI elements and allowing the full fledged standard to be applied to letters and the like we are also looking into extracting a minimal subset for what we call ?correspondence interchange format?. The basic idea is to have a simple catalogue (a list) of correspondence items for each repository which can be harvested by a central web service, thus interconnecting letter collections by persons, dates and places. >> What we?ve done so far is documented at [3], and ODD files and examples can be grabbed at [4]. >> >> Roadmap >> The schema is more or less settled (well, there are still some issues) and right now we are trying to put together and polish the prose descriptions. >> We will then create a formal feature request for discussion at the Oxford f2f. >> >> Workshop >> I think the Genetic Encoding group did a good job in organizing a workshop after the approval for disseminating its work. Surely, I don?t want to anticipate Council?s decision on this proposal but if it *was* accepted I think it would be nice to have a workshop for this?! (If we had a workshop, I think we could skip the SIG meeting) >> Well, I?m just pushing these ideas out since it?s almost end of March ? please excuse any shortcomings. >> >> Looking forward to your feedback and all the best >> Peter >> >> [1] http://ctb.kantl.be/project/dalf/dalfdoc/index.html >> [2] https://github.com/Edirom/WeGA-ODD >> [3] http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/SIG:Correspondence/task-force-correspDesc >> [4] https://github.com/TEI-Correspondence-SIG/correspDesc >> >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140401/6f4f4b1a/attachment-0001.bin From s.bauman at neu.edu Thu Apr 3 10:09:37 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 10:09:37 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] [TEI-L] German element/attribute definitions In-Reply-To: References: <20140403124011.17352tf7nmpw8gp7@webmail.uni-koeln.de> <533D57C5.1080405@uvic.ca> <533D5EBE.3080809@uni-koeln.de> Message-ID: <21309.27553.317048.168938@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I think this merits an immediate (i.e., as fast as we can) bug-fix release. In order for me to be the release tech, I need to be off-duty and not going to Boston. That means Sun 04-06 at the earliest for me. > The effect now visible of no descriptions for elements etc in the > German edition of the Guidelines is caused by fallout from a piece of > work done last year to make it easy to generate list of places where > translation needs updating. > > A good cause, but a catastrophic result. You should seen revised > Guidelines at > http://bits.nsms.ox.ac.uk:8080/jenkins/job/TEIP5/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/de/html/index.html > and points south in a couple of hours when the builds catch up. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Apr 3 10:16:26 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:16:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [TEI-L] German element/attribute definitions In-Reply-To: <21309.27553.317048.168938@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> References: <20140403124011.17352tf7nmpw8gp7@webmail.uni-koeln.de> <533D57C5.1080405@uvic.ca> <533D5EBE.3080809@uni-koeln.de> <21309.27553.317048.168938@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> Message-ID: <9136E40D-F76A-4C8E-AF50-01C6DA6B19B9@it.ox.ac.uk> On 3 Apr 2014, at 15:09, Syd Bauman wrote: > I think this merits an immediate (i.e., as fast as we can) bug-fix > release. that may be an over-reaction. not sure. but its true that the German guidelines are useless. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Apr 25 12:44:10 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 09:44:10 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? Message-ID: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> The attRef spec contains this example: but when I try to use that in my ODD file, Oxygen complains that: Description attribute "class" not allowed here; expected attribute "copyOf", "corresp", "exclude", "n", "name", "next", "prev", "rend", "rendition", "sameAs", "select", "style", "synch", "xml:base", "xml:id", "xml:lang" or "xml:space" I'm using the TEI ODDs schema: file:/home/mholmes/Oxygen%20XML%20Editor%2015/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng If I point at the latest build: That error disappears, but I get different errors from the Schematron: Engine name: ISO Schematron Severity: error Description: cvc-id.2: There are multiple occurrences of ID value 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint'. Start location: 4661:73 End location: 4661:73 URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-id Engine name: ISO Schematron Severity: error Description: cvc-attribute.3: The value 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. Start location: 4661:73 End location: 4661:73 URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-attribute I think this is due to the fact that there are two things, a report and a constraint, inside the constraint element in the relatedItem.xml: If the @target attribute on is used, the relatedItem element must be empty A relatedItem element should have either a 'target' attribute or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic item I'm going to test this by splitting them out into individual constraintSpecs. If you know better, please put me right. Meanwhile, we seem to have a breakage in the published schema - - any idea why? Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Apr 25 14:32:28 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 19:32:28 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> The change that introduced @class to was made mid November. Surely the framework has been regenerated since then? The schematron problem seens unrelated. On 25/04/14 17:44, Martin Holmes wrote: > The attRef spec contains this example: > > > > but when I try to use that in my ODD file, Oxygen complains that: > > Description > attribute "class" not allowed here; expected attribute "copyOf", > "corresp", "exclude", "n", "name", "next", "prev", "rend", "rendition", > "sameAs", "select", "style", "synch", "xml:base", "xml:id", "xml:lang" > or "xml:space" > > I'm using the TEI ODDs schema: > > file:/home/mholmes/Oxygen%20XML%20Editor%2015/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng > > If I point at the latest build: > > > > That error disappears, but I get different errors from the Schematron: > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-id.2: There are multiple occurrences of ID value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-id > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-attribute.3: The value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on > element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-attribute > > I think this is due to the fact that there are two things, a report and > a constraint, inside the constraint element in the relatedItem.xml: > > > > > If the @target attribute on is used, the > relatedItem element must be empty > A relatedItem element > should have either a 'target' attribute > or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic > item > > > > I'm going to test this by splitting them out into individual > constraintSpecs. If you know better, please put me right. Meanwhile, we > seem to have a breakage in the published schema - - any idea why? > > Cheers, > Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Apr 25 15:03:07 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 12:03:07 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535AB16B.5060305@uvic.ca> The split version of the seems to have worked, at least on my Jenkins (the Oxford one has hung up on the Subversion checkout). Should we constrain so it can only contain one report or one assert? Cheers, Martin On 14-04-25 09:44 AM, Martin Holmes wrote: > The attRef spec contains this example: > > > > but when I try to use that in my ODD file, Oxygen complains that: > > Description > attribute "class" not allowed here; expected attribute "copyOf", > "corresp", "exclude", "n", "name", "next", "prev", "rend", "rendition", > "sameAs", "select", "style", "synch", "xml:base", "xml:id", "xml:lang" > or "xml:space" > > I'm using the TEI ODDs schema: > > file:/home/mholmes/Oxygen%20XML%20Editor%2015/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng > > If I point at the latest build: > > > > That error disappears, but I get different errors from the Schematron: > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-id.2: There are multiple occurrences of ID value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-id > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-attribute.3: The value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on > element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-attribute > > I think this is due to the fact that there are two things, a report and > a constraint, inside the constraint element in the relatedItem.xml: > > > > > If the @target attribute on is used, the > relatedItem element must be empty > A relatedItem element > should have either a 'target' attribute > or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic > item > > > > I'm going to test this by splitting them out into individual > constraintSpecs. If you know better, please put me right. Meanwhile, we > seem to have a breakage in the published schema - - any idea why? > > Cheers, > Martin > From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Apr 25 17:32:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:32:59 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> On 14-04-25 11:32 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > The change that introduced @class to was made mid November. > Surely the framework has been regenerated since then? I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the current public schema? It's here: If you create an ODD file with attRef/@class, does it show as valid or not? If you're using the TEI Oxygen package, could you try with that too? I want to confirm it's not some oddity in my setup. If it is broken, we should probably consider a fix fairly soon. > The schematron problem seens unrelated. I seem to have fixed it in SF, as I said in my other email, but it could arise again if we don't constrain the content of constraintSpec. Cheers, Martin > > > On 25/04/14 17:44, Martin Holmes wrote: >> The attRef spec contains this example: >> >> >> >> but when I try to use that in my ODD file, Oxygen complains that: >> >> Description >> attribute "class" not allowed here; expected attribute "copyOf", >> "corresp", "exclude", "n", "name", "next", "prev", "rend", "rendition", >> "sameAs", "select", "style", "synch", "xml:base", "xml:id", "xml:lang" >> or "xml:space" >> >> I'm using the TEI ODDs schema: >> >> file:/home/mholmes/Oxygen%20XML%20Editor%2015/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng >> >> If I point at the latest build: >> >> >> >> That error disappears, but I get different errors from the Schematron: >> >> Engine name: ISO Schematron >> Severity: error >> Description: cvc-id.2: There are multiple occurrences of ID value >> 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint'. >> Start location: 4661:73 >> End location: 4661:73 >> URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-id >> >> Engine name: ISO Schematron >> Severity: error >> Description: cvc-attribute.3: The value >> 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on >> element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. >> Start location: 4661:73 >> End location: 4661:73 >> URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-attribute >> >> I think this is due to the fact that there are two things, a report and >> a constraint, inside the constraint element in the relatedItem.xml: >> >> >> >> >> If the @target attribute on is used, the >> relatedItem element must be empty >> A relatedItem element >> should have either a 'target' attribute >> or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic >> item >> >> >> >> I'm going to test this by splitting them out into individual >> constraintSpecs. If you know better, please put me right. Meanwhile, we >> seem to have a breakage in the published schema - - any idea why? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Apr 25 18:17:48 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 22:17:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <46962A9C-F4BC-4B30-BF5E-573C9ED6CB7C@it.ox.ac.uk> That thing of generated ids for constraints may well have broken. Magdalena and I were working on it 2 weeks and i did worry that we hadn't allowed for everything. Carved in stone on my iPad > On 25 Apr 2014, at 17:44, "Martin Holmes" wrote: > > The attRef spec contains this example: > > > > but when I try to use that in my ODD file, Oxygen complains that: > > Description > attribute "class" not allowed here; expected attribute "copyOf", > "corresp", "exclude", "n", "name", "next", "prev", "rend", "rendition", > "sameAs", "select", "style", "synch", "xml:base", "xml:id", "xml:lang" > or "xml:space" > > I'm using the TEI ODDs schema: > > file:/home/mholmes/Oxygen%20XML%20Editor%2015/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng > > If I point at the latest build: > > > > That error disappears, but I get different errors from the Schematron: > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-id.2: There are multiple occurrences of ID value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-id > > Engine name: ISO Schematron > Severity: error > Description: cvc-attribute.3: The value > 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on > element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. > Start location: 4661:73 > End location: 4661:73 > URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-1/#cvc-attribute > > I think this is due to the fact that there are two things, a report and > a constraint, inside the constraint element in the relatedItem.xml: > > > > > If the @target attribute on is used, the > relatedItem element must be empty > A relatedItem element > should have either a 'target' attribute > or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic > item > > > > I'm going to test this by splitting them out into individual > constraintSpecs. If you know better, please put me right. Meanwhile, we > seem to have a breakage in the published schema - - any idea why? > > Cheers, > Martin > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Apr 26 06:46:41 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 10:46:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535AB16B.5060305@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AB16B.5060305@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 25 Apr 2014, at 21:03, Martin Holmes wrote: > The split version of the seems to have worked, at least > on my Jenkins (the Oxford one has hung up on the Subversion checkout). > having a poke at that > Should we constrain so it can only contain one report > or one assert? > no. thats an error in the XSL code, I am fixing it. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Apr 26 06:48:41 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 10:48:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: > I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the > current public schema? It's here: > > > that has, as expected > > for attRef. > > I?d suggest you subscribe to the TEI oxygen framework?. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Apr 26 16:44:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 13:44:58 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535C1ACA.8020508@uvic.ca> Hi Sebastian, On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >> current public schema? It's here: >> >> >> > that has, as expected > > > >> >> for attRef. >> >> I?d suggest you subscribe to the TEI oxygen framework?. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> > From stadler at edirom.de Mon Apr 28 01:35:19 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:35:19 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] report on the standoff meeting in Berlin Message-ID: Dear all, please find a brief report on the standoff-workshop at Humboldt Universit?t zu Berlin, in January 2014 at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QqJK08sff4ral0tadmNXs0j0VN5Yp-O7_mIsv2f-WjQ/edit?usp=sharing Sorry for the delay! Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140428/39d85767/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 04:38:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 08:38:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media Message-ID: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> cf https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/666/ the problem is that you want to supply a link to (e.g.) video in two alternate formats (ogg and mp4, say), which are then offered to the user depending on what they can cope with. we don?t seem to have a way to represent this. anyone got an idea? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 06:14:13 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:14:13 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E29F5.2000904@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 28/04/14 09:38, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > cf https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/666/ > > the problem is that you want to supply a link to (e.g.) video in two alternate formats > (ogg and mp4, say), which are then offered to the user depending on what they can cope with. > we don?t seem to have a way to represent this. > > anyone got an idea? > -- > S the way we do this elsewhere is to group them within the same or From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 08:43:43 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 05:43:43 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] report on the standoff meeting in Berlin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <535E4CFF.60801@uvic.ca> Thanks Peter -- looking forward to seeing the ODD when SourceForge is working properly again (it seems to be down at the moment). Cheers, Martin On 14-04-27 10:35 PM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > please find a brief report on the standoff-workshop at Humboldt Universit?t zu Berlin, in January 2014 at > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QqJK08sff4ral0tadmNXs0j0VN5Yp-O7_mIsv2f-WjQ/edit?usp=sharing > Sorry for the delay! > > Best > Peter > > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 08:46:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 05:46:03 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> Nested is the obvious solution. That would allow for different width, height etc. for each alternate video. @url could allow multiple targets, but that's less elegant and doesn't handle the problem above. Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 01:38 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > cf https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/666/ > > the problem is that you want to supply a link to (e.g.) video in two alternate formats > (ogg and mp4, say), which are then offered to the user depending on what they can cope with. > we don?t seem to have a way to represent this. > > anyone got an idea? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 10:30:06 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:30:06 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 13:46, Martin Holmes wrote: > Nested is the obvious solution. That would allow for different > width, height etc. for each alternate video. I agree, that seems sensible. > > @url could allow multiple targets, but that's less elegant and doesn't > handle the problem above. crucially, doesn?t allow for different mimeType -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 10:39:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:39:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <535E29F5.2000904@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E29F5.2000904@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4401f966-4f59-42d5-b960-15d7262adb91@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 11:14, Lou Burnard wrote: > > the way we do this elsewhere is to group them within the same > or if you can relate that solution to javad?s file, you a cleverer man than me?.. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 12:05:14 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:05:14 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E7C3A.7040703@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 28/04/14 15:30, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 28 Apr 2014, at 13:46, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Nested is the obvious solution. That would allow for different >> width, height etc. for each alternate video. > I agree, that seems sensible. Sorry, but it doesn't seem sensible to me at all. Firstly, it's currently not legal : media cannot self-nest. Secondly, if they could, what would it mean? Surely, it would mean that the media was composed of several other media. Which is not the same at all as these several other media are alternatives for each other, which is the use case here as farv as I understand it. We should create another grouping element, not misuse an existing one. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 12:22:01 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:22:01 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <535E7C3A.7040703@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E7C3A.7040703@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E8029.1010200@uvic.ca> Hi Lou, On 14-04-28 09:05 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 28/04/14 15:30, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 28 Apr 2014, at 13:46, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> Nested is the obvious solution. That would allow for different >>> width, height etc. for each alternate video. >> I agree, that seems sensible. > > Sorry, but it doesn't seem sensible to me at all. > > Firstly, it's currently not legal : media cannot self-nest. Yet. > Secondly, if they could, what would it mean? Surely, it would mean that > the media was composed of several other media. Which is not the same at > all as these several other media are alternatives for each other, which > is the use case here as farv as I understand it. The idea is based on what HTML does with , which works very well: The user-agent is expected to use the first one in the tree that it's able to handle. At the bottom level is a text fallback that can be displayed when nothing else works; we already have for that. Cheers, Martin > We should create another grouping element, not misuse an existing one. > > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 12:45:33 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:45:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke Message-ID: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> look at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/BIB.html and marvel at the silly way the bibliography is sorted by first name of author -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:05:10 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:05:10 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 28/04/14 17:45, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > look at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/BIB.html > and marvel at the silly way the bibliography is sorted by first name of author > -- > The first part of the bibliog, which uses s, looks fine, presumably because it isn't being sorted at all, but the components are in the file in the right order. Whereas the other parts, which use are coming out in a strange order because someone rashly engaged to sort them correctly no matter what order they were in the file. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:08:23 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:08:23 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <535E8029.1010200@uvic.ca> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E7C3A.7040703@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535E8029.1010200@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535E8B07.1040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 28/04/14 17:22, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Secondly, if they could, what would it mean? Surely, it would mean that >> the media was composed of several other media. Which is not the same at >> all as these several other media are alternatives for each other, which >> is the use case here as farv as I understand it. > The idea is based on what HTML does with , which works very well: > > > > The user-agent is expected to use the first one in the tree that it's > able to handle. At the bottom level is a text fallback that can be > displayed when nothing else works; we already have for that. > This is fine for HTML, which is a language intended to tell you how to process a document, but is not necessarily a good model for TEI, which is a language intended to tell you how a document is organized. If you want , use that. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 13:13:25 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:13:25 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> Isn't this why we have @sortKey? Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 10:05 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 28/04/14 17:45, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> look at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/BIB.html >> and marvel at the silly way the bibliography is sorted by first name of author >> -- >> > > The first part of the bibliog, which uses s, looks fine, > presumably because it isn't being sorted at all, but the components are > in the file in the right order. Whereas the other parts, which use > are coming out in a strange order because someone rashly > engaged to sort them correctly no matter what order they were in the file. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:18:11 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:18:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <00a66766-b7ab-4312-9b81-5d6c199af6e9@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 18:05, Lou Burnard wrote: > The first part of the bibliog, which uses s, looks fine, > presumably because it isn't being sorted at all, but the components are > in the file in the right order. correct > Whereas the other parts, which use > are coming out in a strange order because someone rashly > engaged to sort them correctly no matter what order they were in the file. > you wouldn?t have thought this was so hard, would you? anyway, its been wrong since 2.0.0 (was correct before that); but is now fixed (when current round of builds has completed). moral: (a|b|c)[1] is not the same as (a,b,c)[1] in XSLT. you all knew that, though. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:18:13 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 18:18:13 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535E8D55.3080704@retired.ox.ac.uk> Do we have a volunteer to write the XSLT to generate values for @sortKey from all existing biblStructs? On 28/04/14 18:13, Martin Holmes wrote: > Isn't this why we have @sortKey? > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-04-28 10:05 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: >> On 28/04/14 17:45, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> look at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/BIB.html >>> and marvel at the silly way the bibliography is sorted by first name of author >>> -- >>> >> The first part of the bibliog, which uses s, looks fine, >> presumably because it isn't being sorted at all, but the components are >> in the file in the right order. Whereas the other parts, which use >> are coming out in a strange order because someone rashly >> engaged to sort them correctly no matter what order they were in the file. >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:19:49 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:19:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <535E8D55.3080704@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> <535E8D55.3080704@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1bb4d919-497c-416c-b18c-4a8ba78492c5@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 18:18, Lou Burnard wrote: > Do we have a volunteer to write the XSLT to generate values for > @sortKey from all existing biblStructs? it would be the exact same code which is used dynamically for ?... -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 13:21:06 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:21:06 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] bib sorting broke In-Reply-To: <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> References: <29666305-8624-43B1-ABBE-A4CCD4B64F92@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8A46.5030209@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535E8C35.3010409@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 28 Apr 2014, at 18:13, Martin Holmes wrote: > Isn't this why we have @sortKey? this was invented for indexing, really. but its true that should be taken into account -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 13:26:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:26:46 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> We still seem to have a problem here. Create an ODD file and try to validate it against this: I get this error: E [ISO Schematron] cvc-attribute.3: The value 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. If I try to validate against the latest schema in the Oxygen package (updated this morning), I get a whole stack of errors, starting with this one: System ID: /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml Main validation file: /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml Schema: /home/mholmes/Oxygen XML Editor 15/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng Engine name: Jing Severity: error Description: element "elementRef" not allowed here; expected the element end-tag, text, element "rng:attribute", "rng:choice", "rng:data", "rng:define", "rng:element", "rng:empty", "rng:externalRef", "rng:grammar", "rng:group", "rng:interleave", "rng:list", "rng:mixed", "rng:notAllowed", "rng:oneOrMore", "rng:optional", "rng:parentRef", "rng:ref", "rng:text", "rng:value" or "rng:zeroOrMore" or an element from another namespace Start location: 71:16 End location: 71:26 I'm attaching my ODD file, which is still in the very simple early stages but as far as I can see should be OK. Can someone try validating this against their [Oxygen]/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng file and see if they get the same errors as me? cheers, Martin On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >> current public schema? It's here: >> >> >> > that has, as expected > > > Start location: 71:16 > End location: 71:26 > > I'm attaching my ODD file, which is still in the very simple early stages but as far as I can see should be OK. Can someone try validating this against their [Oxygen]/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng file and see if they get the same errors as me? > > cheers, > Martin > > On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >>> current public schema? It's here: >>> >>> >>> >> that has, as expected >> >> >> If the @target attribute on is used, the relatedItem element must be empty A relatedItem element should have either a 'target' attribute or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic item whereas in the old version (still showing on Oxford Jinks at ) the patterns have different ids: If the @target attribute on is used, the relatedItem element must be empty A relatedItem element should have either a 'target' attribute or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic item These are the relevant version headers: OXFORD (OLDER): UVIC (NEWER): Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 11:44 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Hi Martin, > > I can confirm the error. When I use the Oxford jenkins instead, it does work, though. (But well, there the latest successful build is one day behind.) > > Best > Peter > > Am 28.04.2014 um 19:26 schrieb Martin Holmes : > >> We still seem to have a problem here. Create an ODD file and try to validate it against this: >> >> >> >> I get this error: >> >> E [ISO Schematron] cvc-attribute.3: The value 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' on element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. >> >> If I try to validate against the latest schema in the Oxygen package (updated this morning), I get a whole stack of errors, starting with this one: >> >> System ID: /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml >> Main validation file: /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml >> Schema: /home/mholmes/Oxygen XML Editor 15/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng >> Engine name: Jing >> Severity: error >> Description: element "elementRef" not allowed here; expected the element end-tag, text, element "rng:attribute", "rng:choice", "rng:data", "rng:define", "rng:element", "rng:empty", "rng:externalRef", "rng:grammar", "rng:group", "rng:interleave", "rng:list", "rng:mixed", "rng:notAllowed", "rng:oneOrMore", "rng:optional", "rng:parentRef", "rng:ref", "rng:text", "rng:value" or "rng:zeroOrMore" or an element from another namespace >> Start location: 71:16 >> End location: 71:26 >> >> I'm attaching my ODD file, which is still in the very simple early stages but as far as I can see should be OK. Can someone try validating this against their [Oxygen]/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng file and see if they get the same errors as me? >> >> cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> >>> On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>>> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >>>> current public schema? It's here: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> that has, as expected >>> >>> >>> element end-tag, text, element "rng:attribute", "rng:choice", > "rng:data", "rng:define", "rng:element", "rng:empty", > "rng:externalRef", "rng:grammar", "rng:group", "rng:interleave", > "rng:list", "rng:mixed", "rng:notAllowed", "rng:oneOrMore", > "rng:optional", "rng:parentRef", "rng:ref", "rng:text", "rng:value" or > "rng:zeroOrMore" or an element from another namespace > Start location: 71:16 > End location: 71:26 > > I'm attaching my ODD file, which is still in the very simple early > stages but as far as I can see should be OK. Can someone try > validating this against their > [Oxygen]/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng > file and see if they get the same errors as me? > > cheers, > Martin > > On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >>> current public schema? It's here: >>> >>> >>> >>> >> that has, as expected >> >> >> >> >> for attRef. >> >> I'd suggest you subscribe to the TEI oxygen framework.... >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 16:05:25 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:05:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> UVic Jenkins can?t have the latest stylesheets. If you compare the schemas (below) you see that I have fixed the problem of duplicate IDs. Why UVic stylesheet build has gone AWOL, god and jenkins alone know?. 6c6 < Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-27T19:26:52Z. --- > Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-28T11:26:15Z. 8c8 < 27th April 2014, revision 12873 --- > 28th April 2014, revision 12879 774c774 < id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint-1"> --- > id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint"> 1363c1363 < id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint-2"> --- > id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint"> 1388c1388 < id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint-3"> --- > id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint"> 1534c1534 < id="tei_odds-att.spanning-spanTo-spanTo-2-constraint-4"> ?. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 16:59:02 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:59:02 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535EB287.1010304@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EB287.1010304@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535EC116.7010504@uvic.ca> Are you checking the box for validating the embedded Schematron as well as the RNG? Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 12:56 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > Your ODD validates correctly for me, using the latest Oxygen framework. > > It also validates correctly if I change the PI to reference the jenkins > URL you give in your message. > > So I dunno what's going on! > > > On 28/04/14 18:26, Martin Holmes wrote: >> We still seem to have a problem here. Create an ODD file and try to >> validate it against this: >> >> >> >> >> I get this error: >> >> E [ISO Schematron] cvc-attribute.3: The value >> 'tei_odds-relatedItem-targetorcontent1-constraint' of attribute 'id' >> on element 'pattern' is not valid with respect to its type, 'ID'. >> >> If I try to validate against the latest schema in the Oxygen package >> (updated this morning), I get a whole stack of errors, starting with >> this one: >> >> System ID: >> /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml >> Main validation file: >> /media/Data/mholmes/Documents/history/stanger-ross/landscapes_of_injustice/xml/properties_odd.xml >> Schema: /home/mholmes/Oxygen XML Editor >> 15/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng >> Engine name: Jing >> Severity: error >> Description: element "elementRef" not allowed here; expected the >> element end-tag, text, element "rng:attribute", "rng:choice", >> "rng:data", "rng:define", "rng:element", "rng:empty", >> "rng:externalRef", "rng:grammar", "rng:group", "rng:interleave", >> "rng:list", "rng:mixed", "rng:notAllowed", "rng:oneOrMore", >> "rng:optional", "rng:parentRef", "rng:ref", "rng:text", "rng:value" or >> "rng:zeroOrMore" or an element from another namespace >> Start location: 71:16 >> End location: 71:26 >> >> I'm attaching my ODD file, which is still in the very simple early >> stages but as far as I can see should be OK. Can someone try >> validating this against their >> [Oxygen]/frameworks/tei/xml/tei/custom/schema/relaxng/tei_odds.rng >> file and see if they get the same errors as me? >> >> cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-04-26 03:48 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> >>> On 25 Apr 2014, at 23:32, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>>> I would thinks so. Can someone else confirm the problem exists with the >>>> current public schema? It's here: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> that has, as expected >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> for attRef. >>> >>> I'd suggest you subscribe to the TEI oxygen framework.... >>> -- >>> Sebastian Rahtz >>> Director (Research) of Academic IT >>> University of Oxford IT Services >>> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >>> >>> N?o sou nada. >>> Nunca serei nada. >>> N?o posso querer ser nada. >>> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >>> >> >> > From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 17:01:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:01:59 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> My Jinks stylesheets last built less than two hours ago: and the error still persists. Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 01:05 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > UVic Jenkins can?t have the latest stylesheets. If you compare the schemas (below) you > see that I have fixed the problem of duplicate IDs. > > Why UVic stylesheet build has gone AWOL, god and jenkins alone know?. > > > 6c6 > < Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-27T19:26:52Z. > --- >> Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-28T11:26:15Z. > 8c8 > < 27th April 2014, revision 12873 > --- >> 28th April 2014, revision 12879 > 774c774 > < id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint-1"> > --- >> id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint"> > 1363c1363 > < id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint-2"> > --- >> id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint"> > 1388c1388 > < id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint-3"> > --- >> id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint"> > 1534c1534 > < id="tei_odds-att.spanning-spanTo-spanTo-2-constraint-4"> > > ?. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 17:12:18 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:12:18 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> Just to be clear: And my P5 build ran only about 45 minutes ago, presumably using the current Stylesheet build output: And it still contains this: If the @target attribute on is used, the relatedItem element must be empty A relatedItem element should have either a 'target' attribute or a child element to indicate the related bibliographic item Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 02:01 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > My Jinks stylesheets last built less than two hours ago: > > > > and the error still persists. > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-04-28 01:05 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> UVic Jenkins can?t have the latest stylesheets. If you compare the schemas (below) you >> see that I have fixed the problem of duplicate IDs. >> >> Why UVic stylesheet build has gone AWOL, god and jenkins alone know?. >> >> >> 6c6 >> < Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-27T19:26:52Z. >> --- >>> Schema generated from ODD source 2014-04-28T11:26:15Z. >> 8c8 >> < 27th April 2014, revision 12873 >> --- >>> 28th April 2014, revision 12879 >> 774c774 >> < id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint-1"> >> --- >>> id="tei_odds-att.datable-calendar-calendar-constraint"> >> 1363c1363 >> < id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint-2"> >> --- >>> id="tei_odds-att.typed-subtypeTyped-constraint"> >> 1388c1388 >> < id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint-3"> >> --- >>> id="tei_odds-att.pointing-targetLang-targetLang-constraint"> >> 1534c1534 >> < id="tei_odds-att.spanning-spanTo-spanTo-2-constraint-4"> >> >> ?. >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 17:22:13 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:22:13 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:12, Martin Holmes wrote: > Just to be clear: And my P5 build ran only about 45 minutes ago, > presumably using the current Stylesheet build output: ^^^^^^^^^^^ can you check that your copy of stylesheets/common/functions.xsl has this: work out unique ID for generated Schematron ? has the svn syncing gone awol? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 17:39:22 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:39:22 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> My stylesheet build seems to have a different version of that function: work out unique ID for generated Schematron compared with yours: I'll try wiping out my workspace and building the Stylesheets again. You haven't changed anything relating to the Git repo, have you? Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 02:22 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:12, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Just to be clear: And my P5 build ran only about 45 minutes ago, >> presumably using the current Stylesheet build output: > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > > can you check that your copy of stylesheets/common/functions.xsl has this: > > > work out unique ID for generated Schematron > > > > > > > > select="(../ancestor::*[@ident]/@ident,'constraint',../@ident,$num)" > separator="-"/> > > > > ? has the svn syncing gone awol? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 17:43:51 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:43:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:39, Martin Holmes wrote: > My stylesheet build seems to have a different version of that function: > well, at least now we know whats gone wrong. > I'll try wiping out my workspace and building the Stylesheets again. You haven't changed anything relating to the Git repo, have you? not knowingly -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 17:56:08 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:56:08 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> Does the Stylesheets build depend at all on the deb install? I know my packages are up to date -- is it possible the ones on bits.ox are not? Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 02:43 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:39, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> My stylesheet build seems to have a different version of that function: >> > well, at least now we know whats gone wrong. > >> I'll try wiping out my workspace and building the Stylesheets again. You haven't changed anything relating to the Git repo, have you? > > not knowingly > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Apr 28 18:13:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 22:13:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:56, Martin Holmes wrote: > Does the Stylesheets build depend at all on the deb install? I know my packages are up to date -- is it possible the ones on bits.ox are not? > i don?t think i even have the debian packages installed there. I?m off to bed, I?ll leave you with some tedious debugging on the command testing each phase :-{ until the transform is using that new copy of functions.xsl, though, your schemas will continue to have that error. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 18:30:25 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:30:25 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <535ED681.9090904@uvic.ca> After a workspace wipe-out and rebuild, I now seem to have the correct version of the function in common/functions.xsl. Now rebuilding everything else... Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 03:13 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:56, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Does the Stylesheets build depend at all on the deb install? I know my packages are up to date -- is it possible the ones on bits.ox are not? >> > > i don?t think i even have the debian packages installed there. > > I?m off to bed, I?ll leave you with some tedious debugging on the command > testing each phase :-{ > > until the transform is using that new copy of functions.xsl, though, > your schemas will continue to have that error. > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Apr 28 19:32:40 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:32:40 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535ED681.9090904@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ED681.9090904@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535EE518.9090603@uvic.ca> It's valid now. I think we need something in TEIP5-Test to catch this. Perhaps when I've finished this particular ODD file, which is getting quite large and complicated, we could add it to the tree and have it validated as part of Test. Cheers, Martin On 14-04-28 03:30 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > After a workspace wipe-out and rebuild, I now seem to have the correct > version of the function in common/functions.xsl. Now rebuilding > everything else... > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-04-28 03:13 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 28 Apr 2014, at 22:56, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> Does the Stylesheets build depend at all on the deb install? I know my packages are up to date -- is it possible the ones on bits.ox are not? >>> >> >> i don?t think i even have the debian packages installed there. >> >> I?m off to bed, I?ll leave you with some tedious debugging on the command >> testing each phase :-{ >> >> until the transform is using that new copy of functions.xsl, though, >> your schemas will continue to have that error. >> >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Apr 29 04:02:05 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 08:02:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: <535EE518.9090603@uvic.ca> References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ED681.9090904@uvic.ca> <535EE518.9090603@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 29 Apr 2014, at 00:32, Martin Holmes wrote: > I think we need something in TEIP5-Test to catch this. Perhaps when I've > finished this particular ODD file, which is getting quite large and > complicated, we could add it to the tree and have it validated as part > of Test. validation per se won?t catch that situation? you need to generate a schema and use that, and see if the schema processor barfs. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue Apr 29 08:37:53 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 05:37:53 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] attRef/@class not valid? In-Reply-To: References: <535A90DA.2010903@uvic.ca> <535AAA3C.2030501@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535AD48B.2010108@uvic.ca> <2EC06498-61B5-4068-9019-51C892D4BF9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E8F56.3050202@uvic.ca> <535EA4A6.2010100@uvic.ca> <33287839-20BA-4826-96CA-2D73DB6EDFB9@it.ox.ac.uk> <535EC1C7.20901@uvic.ca> <535EC432.3010103@uvic.ca> <535ECA8A.2070009@uvic.ca> <543E779F-9634-4631-A49A-9FDD82144A5E@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ECE78.4030708@uvic.ca> <678E1588-DF6A-4BDD-8EF4-D90485C08F1A@it.ox.ac.uk> <535ED681.9090904@uvic.ca> <535EE518.9090603@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <535F9D21.6000003@uvic.ca> On 14-04-29 01:02 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 29 Apr 2014, at 00:32, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I think we need something in TEIP5-Test to catch this. Perhaps when I've >> finished this particular ODD file, which is getting quite large and >> complicated, we could add it to the tree and have it validated as part >> of Test. > > validation per se won?t catch that situation? you need to generate > a schema and use that, and see if the schema processor barfs. That's what I was assuming: generate the tei_odds schema and validate some interesting ODD files against it. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu May 1 17:35:43 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 14:35:43 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] The quotation/@form attribute has expired Message-ID: <5362BE2F.60309@uvic.ca> Hi there, I just committed some edits to the repo and the build failed because, in quotation.xml, . I've commented out the attDef, with an explanatory comment, in the source. I see no reason to delete it immediately, just in case it doesn't prove to be as simple as it should. If all builds according to plan, one of us can delete it completely the next time we come across it. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri May 2 17:20:39 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 14:20:39 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Text Directionality section now in guidelines for proofing Message-ID: <53640C27.7000804@uvic.ca> Hi all, Thanks to lots of sterling work from Lou, and a fair bit of strenuous discussion, the new Text Directionality section has been added to Chapter 5 of the Guidelines, and is available for comment: All feedback much appreciated; please check that it makes sense to you, and report any typos etc. We still have a one issue we're thinking about: the possibility that the mention of Ogham is distracting (I would argue it's not a bottom-to-top language, so it doesn't belong). Cheers, Martin From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Sun May 4 15:00:14 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 21:00:14 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] multiple representations of a graphic/media In-Reply-To: <535E8B07.1040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <572A4ED0-47FA-4E4D-93DB-C6D2FC006AC5@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E4D8B.6060107@uvic.ca> <32252A32-B90F-4017-9E3A-4104A767B194@it.ox.ac.uk> <535E7C3A.7040703@retired.ox.ac.uk> <535E8029.1010200@uvic.ca> <535E8B07.1040809@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I agree with Lou, don't like the nesting solution for semantic reasons, even if it can be bounded to a good processing model. Nesting in general means that something is part of something else (in various ways) and this is not the case, since we have a parallelism of sources. A TEI as-is compatible solution could be to insert inside
, so that you can put in sequence as many elements as many formats you have. This of copurse soounds odd for video and especially for audio again for semantic reason, but the power of metaphor can give an help here. Otherwise I'd suggest to give a structure to similar to that of
, or better of METS My 2 cents Fabio 2014-04-28 19:08 GMT+02:00 Lou Burnard : > On 28/04/14 17:22, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> Secondly, if they could, what would it mean? Surely, it would mean that >>> the media was composed of several other media. Which is not the same at >>> all as these several other media are alternatives for each other, which >>> is the use case here as farv as I understand it. >> The idea is based on what HTML does with , which works very well: >> >> >> >> The user-agent is expected to use the first one in the tree that it's >> able to handle. At the bottom level is a text fallback that can be >> displayed when nothing else works; we already have for that. >> > > This is fine for HTML, which is a language intended to tell you how to > process a document, but is not necessarily a good model for TEI, which > is a language intended to tell you how a document is organized. If you > want , use that. > > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed May 7 09:29:28 2014 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 09:29:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: cannot contain or in TEI (fwd) Message-ID: Could someone respond to Petr Trunecek on this query? Thanks -- David ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 10:02:30 +0200 From: Petr Trunecek To: info at tei-c.org Subject: Fwd: cannot contain or in TEI Could you please respond? Thank you. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Petr Trunecek Date: Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 5:09 PM Subject: cannot contain or in TEI To: info at tei-c.org Dear Sir/Madam, in our department we are designing an inter-department XML format that is a subset of TEI. We would like to be able to mark up a quotation inside a sentence, without breaking the sentence. We would like the same to do for insise . What is the reasoning behind TEI not permiting this kind of markup? It would be great if our format could stay TEI-conformant. Best Regards Petr Trunecek Czech National Corpus Faculty of Arts, Charles University Prague, Czech Republic petr.trunecek at ff.cuni.cz From s.bauman at neu.edu Wed May 7 15:17:13 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 15:17:13 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: cannot contain or in TEI (fwd) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <21354.34489.457435.989435@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> David -- I think the right thing to do for this and similar questions is to have a boilerplate response ready to go. Something along the lines of Good day! The info at tei-c.org address is really for information about the TEI Consortium, not about the TEI encoding system. So while I can certainly try to answer your question or find someone to do so, you will probably get much better results by posting your question to the main TEI mailing list, TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu. If you are not already a subscriber to the list, sign up by surfing over to http://listserv.brown.edu/tei-l.html (which just forwards you to http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=tei-l&A=1/), and clicking on "Subscribe or Unsubscribe" in the "Options" box on the right side of the screen. > Could someone respond to Petr Trunecek on this query? In fact, this chap's particular question will probably generate a lot of discussion, since it boils down to "why favor hierarchy A over hierarchy B". Hope all is well. From philomousos at gmail.com Fri May 16 12:07:31 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 12:07:31 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] New TEI Pointers draft Message-ID: Hi All, A new draft of the revised TEI Pointer Schemes section may be viewed at http://hcayless.github.io/TEI-Guidelines/Guidelines-web/en/html/SA.html#SATS As always, I would be very grateful for your comments and corrections. This version should be up-to-date with the current state of the TEI trunk, and it's source is viewable at https://github.com/hcayless/TEI-Guidelines/blob/pointers/P5/Source/Guidelines/en/SA-LinkingSegmentationAlignment.xml#L769 Suggestions, corrections, etc. can be made here, as new issues on that GitHub repo, or directly to me. The main changes since my last message are the application of Fabio's excellent feedback, the addition of a bunch of examples, and some discussion of namespaces in relation to pointers. I hope we're close to completion now, so please alert me to things like confusing or inconsistent language. Thanks! Hugh From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri May 16 16:34:15 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 13:34:15 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Quick ODD question Message-ID: <53767647.5060109@uvic.ca> How do you make an attribute from an existing class required on an element? For instance: Is there any way I can override the optional status of @xml:id in the global class, to make it required on the new foo element, or do I have to re-create it? Cheers, Martin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun May 18 18:01:41 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 22:01:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Quick ODD question In-Reply-To: <53767647.5060109@uvic.ca> References: <53767647.5060109@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <148968C4-09A5-4169-8C85-1D3DFBE5D118@it.ox.ac.uk> On 16 May 2014, at 21:34, Martin Holmes wrote: > How do you make an attribute from an existing class required on an > element? For instance: > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there any way I can override the optional status of @xml:id in the > global class, to make it required on the new foo element, or do I have > to re-create it? this is a bit like the one in , i think but your example uses . hmm. I dont think we allowed for what you want. I?d probably just recreate something as trivial as @xml:id -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun May 18 23:49:11 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 20:49:11 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Quick ODD question In-Reply-To: <148968C4-09A5-4169-8C85-1D3DFBE5D118@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53767647.5060109@uvic.ca> <148968C4-09A5-4169-8C85-1D3DFBE5D118@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53797F37.1030407@uvic.ca> On 14-05-18 03:01 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 16 May 2014, at 21:34, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> How do you make an attribute from an existing class required on an >> element? For instance: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there any way I can override the optional status of @xml:id in the >> global class, to make it required on the new foo element, or do I have >> to re-create it? > > this is a bit like the one in , i think > > > > > > but your example uses . hmm. I dont think we allowed for what you want. > I?d probably just recreate something as trivial as @xml:id Ah -- of course, I can just make the new element a member of the class, delete any attributes from the class I don't need, and override the usage attribute using attDef. Sorry, I wasn't thinking straight. Cheers, Martin > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon May 19 13:06:17 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 18:06:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] ticket assignments Message-ID: <537A3A09.4000200@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi TEI Council Some of you may have noticed that I have gone through and assigned any tickets which did not have an 'owner' to someone on council. What I want you to do for most tickets is to triage it (decide if it seems straight forward RED/AMBER/GREEN), email the council mailing list linking to a proposed solution that you've put on the ticket (even if it is just "Yes, implement this as the requester proposed"). In a couple cases where there are fairly technical tickets created by a member of council, you might want to make a longer report to the council mailing list explaining the issue in more detail. If you really really think that one of the tickets I've assigned you is beyond you then raise it on the council mailing list and we'll see if we can find another willing council member who understands that issue better to take it over. But remember this is about management of the ticket, getting a consensus from council, not _necessarily_ implementing it (if you can get someone else to do so on your behalf). You can see just your tickets by clicking the down arrow at https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/ or https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/ by 'owner' and checking the box to filter by your username. Also note that we have a teleconference coming up soon, so start thinking about agenda items and put them here: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-05 Getting back to TEI Council business after a busy spell, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon May 19 14:42:03 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 18:42:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:feature-requests] #493 tei-install.sh should be split into three In-Reply-To:

References: <52e2ae3d0910d42bda441129.feature-requests@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

Message-ID: <09B47FBC-03FF-41F9-8CCC-BA5053F89194@it.ox.ac.uk> Context: > Peter Stadler, the release technician for 2.6.0, suggests (in view of the problems and need for a temporary rollback during that process) that we split tei-install.sh into three stages, as follows: > > ? upload2tei-c > ? make-current > ? upload2sf Triage: perfectly possible Action: * implemented as three extra options on the current script: ?install ?makecurrent and ?upload (default is all 3) * closed ticket Conclusion: takes less time to do that talk about -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon May 19 15:09:39 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 19:09:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #669 Explanation of schemaSpec/@start could be more helpful In-Reply-To:

References: <53769b113e5e834551184662.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

Message-ID: Problem: > If I'm creating a customization, and I want to make it possible for one of my own elements to serve as the root of a file, Triage: Lack of clarity in prose that the value of @start on is a RELAXNG pattern, not an element name Action: * changed USE.xml to clarify * added example to ticket showing Martin how to solve his problem * closed ticket Twist: Lou claims there are other things available for RELAXNG?s @start. Since no-one has asked for them in the last 6 or 7 years, I suggest we wait until the sleeping dog wakes up. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon May 19 15:16:15 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 19:16:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] ticket assignments In-Reply-To: <537A3A09.4000200@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537A3A09.4000200@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6b4bc3f7-9134-4ce8-85f3-9c7d2690545d@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 19 May 2014, at 18:06, James Cummings wrote: > What I want you to do for most tickets is to triage it (decide if > it seems straight forward RED/AMBER/GREEN), email the council > mailing list linking to a proposed solution that you've put on > the ticket (even if it is just "Yes, implement this as the > requester proposed"). and if the solution is non-conroversial, just make the change and close the ticket?.. ...following the principle that if you wait for someone else to do something, the Ark will never get built. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue May 20 12:54:52 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 09:54:52 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Expiring specifications Message-ID: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> Before the next release, we have : validUntil="2014-06-17" It's referenced in five other specifications (listEvent, listNym, listOrg, listPerson, listPlace). Since we won't be doing a release until well after the expiry date, is there any objection to removing it and cleaning up after it now? That'll allow a little time for any possible side-effects to emerge and be sorted out. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue May 20 13:57:55 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 10:57:55 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod Message-ID: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> Hi all, This ticket: raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the Names and Dates chapter to cover this: along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the header chapter: Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report any typos, etc. Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue May 20 16:54:35 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 21:54:35 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> I've had a quick look and think this looks good, though I think it might make clearer that the custom-xxx attributes provide a (non-standard) normalized form, perhaps by complementing same with the standard normalised equivalent. In the meantime I've taken on myself the other action suggested by the ticket -- a sweep through the elements in P5 to see if there are any other rogues. I found about twenty elements which don't correspond with a TEI:attDef/@ident : the vast majority are simple cases where a @scheme attribute has been omitted, or where the attribute name has been translated into Spanish for some reason. I'll fix them up shortly. On 20/05/14 18:57, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi all, > > This ticket: > > > > raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences > between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the > Names and Dates chapter to cover this: > > > > along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the > header chapter: > > > > Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report > any typos, etc. > > Cheers, > Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Tue May 20 16:58:51 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 13:58:51 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> On 14-05-20 01:54 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > I've had a quick look and think this looks good, though I think it might > make clearer that the custom-xxx attributes provide a (non-standard) > normalized form, perhaps by complementing same with the standard > normalised equivalent. I did think about this, and the precise date used in one of the examples would make a good basis for this; we could add @when with the corresponding Gregorian or proleptic Gregorian date. This is most practical with precise dates; when you're dealing with years, then a single Julian year has to be turned into a date-range in Gregorian because the beginnings of years don't align. When I get a chance I'll add another para to the bottom introducing the @when to the same example, and explaining it. > In the meantime I've taken on myself the other action suggested by the > ticket -- a sweep through the elements in P5 to see if there are > any other rogues. I found about twenty elements which don't > correspond with a TEI:attDef/@ident : the vast majority are simple > cases where a @scheme attribute has been omitted, or where the attribute > name has been translated into Spanish for some reason. I'll fix them up > shortly. Great. We should probably do this as part of the Test build, really. But it's conceivable that we might use or to talk about things from other namespaces. Cheers, Martin > On 20/05/14 18:57, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This ticket: >> >> >> >> raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences >> between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the >> Names and Dates chapter to cover this: >> >> >> >> along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the >> header chapter: >> >> >> >> Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report >> any typos, etc. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 21 05:19:53 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:19:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Expiring specifications In-Reply-To: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> References: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> That seems reasonable to me. Do we have something in the build process that automagically warns us when one of these is approaching? (e.g. a couple months away?) -james On 20/05/14 17:54, Martin Holmes wrote: > Before the next release, we have > > : validUntil="2014-06-17" > > It's referenced in five other specifications (listEvent, listNym, > listOrg, listPerson, listPlace). > > Since we won't be doing a release until well after the expiry date, is > there any objection to removing it and cleaning up after it now? That'll > allow a little time for any possible side-effects to emerge and be > sorted out. > > Cheers, > Martin > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 21 05:29:03 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:29:03 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> On 20/05/14 21:58, Martin Holmes wrote: > Great. We should probably do this as part of the Test build, really. But > it's conceivable that we might use or to talk about things > from other namespaces. Should this take account of the @scheme attribute then? On that note I've wondered a couple times whether @scheme should either not be data.enumerated or be replaced or complemented with @ns for an actual namespace. Though I suppose you might want both. You might want to be able to say: ===

persName allows many elements inside it but in TEI-Simple persName has been changed to only allow forenames and surnames.

=== (Ok, a fictitious example but both these different 'schemes' would be in the same namespace.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Wed May 21 06:45:23 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 11:45:23 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537C83C3.2060702@retired.ox.ac.uk> The @scheme attribute used to be a nice simple @TEI attribute with values "yes" or "no", which distinction is, in practice, all we've ever needed it for. If you look at the spec for , you will see that @scheme is indeed defined as data.enumerated, with a suggested list of values, none of which we actually use in the text of the Guidelines (). It also contains the interesting note "A namespace prefix may be used in order to specify the scheme as an alternative to specifying it via the scheme attribute: it takes precedence". I think this is intended to allow you to say e.g. html:href rather than (as we currently do) href, and to warn you that nonsense like html:href will not work. It doesn't tell you where you define that namespace prefix, of course, nor does it need to. The spec needs fixing hoiwever since one of the examples cheerfully says "style is not among them" (i.e. the TEI global attributes) so I will add some of the values we do use in the Guidelines to the list at the same time. How, out of curiosity, do you think translated names for attributes should be handled? e.g. in the spec for att.damaged, the Spanish translator has decided to translate the content of the element as well as the surrounding text, resulting in things like "

La etiqueta da?o con el atributo grado debe ser utilizado..." I think this is just plain wrong, not only because it's inconsistent with the practice of other translators, but also because it implies that there is somewhere an attribute called "grado", which there isn't. I think this should read:

La etiqueta damage (da?o) con el atributo degree (grado) debe ser utilizado..." On 21/05/14 10:29, James Cummings wrote: > On 20/05/14 21:58, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Great. We should probably do this as part of the Test build, really. But >> it's conceivable that we might use or to talk about things >> from other namespaces. > Should this take account of the @scheme attribute then? On that > note I've wondered a couple times whether @scheme should either > not be data.enumerated or be replaced or complemented with @ns > for an actual namespace. Though I suppose you might want both. > You might want to be able to say: > > === >

scheme="TEI">persName allows many elements inside it but in > TEI-Simple scheme="TEI-Simple">persName has been changed to only allow > forenames and surnames.

> === > > (Ok, a fictitious example but both these different 'schemes' > would be in the same namespace.) > > -James > > From philomousos at gmail.com Wed May 21 07:11:37 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 07:11:37 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: Unless I'm mistaken, you've just dealt with https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/635/ too, which I shall mark as a sort-of-duplicate and close unless anyone objects. Hugh On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi all, > > This ticket: > > > > raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences > between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the > Names and Dates chapter to cover this: > > < > http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Documentation/ws/Guidelines-web/en/html/ND.html#NDDATECUSTOM > > > > along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the > header chapter: > > < > http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Documentation/ws/Guidelines-web/en/html/HD.html#HD44 > > > > Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report > any typos, etc. > > Cheers, > Martin > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 08:49:41 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 05:49:41 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CA0E5.7010602@uvic.ca> On 14-05-21 02:29 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 20/05/14 21:58, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Great. We should probably do this as part of the Test build, really. But >> it's conceivable that we might use or to talk about things >> from other namespaces. > > Should this take account of the @scheme attribute then? On that > note I've wondered a couple times whether @scheme should either > not be data.enumerated or be replaced or complemented with @ns > for an actual namespace. Though I suppose you might want both. > You might want to be able to say: > > === >

scheme="TEI">persName allows many elements inside it but in > TEI-Simple scheme="TEI-Simple">persName has been changed to only allow > forenames and surnames.

> === > > (Ok, a fictitious example but both these different 'schemes' > would be in the same namespace.) I like the look of this. We'd want to have a default that says that an without @scheme or @ns is presumed to be TEI, though, otherwise it'll be tedious to work on the Guidelines. Then there's attributes and their default no-namespace namespace... Cheers, Martin > > -James > > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 21 09:37:56 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 14:37:56 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537CA0E5.7010602@uvic.ca> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> <537CA0E5.7010602@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537CAC34.8030703@it.ox.ac.uk> On 21/05/14 13:49, Martin Holmes wrote: > Then there's attributes and their default no-namespace namespace... *puts hands over ears* I can't hear you. I can't hear you. *takes hands off of ears and looks around* (Yes, I know that is a problem, but is consistently a problem in many standards across the intertubes.) -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 21 10:23:54 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 14:23:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Expiring specifications In-Reply-To: <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 21 May 2014, at 10:19, James Cummings wrote: > > That seems reasonable to me. Do we have something in the build > process that automagically warns us when one of these is > approaching? (e.g. a couple months away?) yes, it starts squeaking 30 days out, I think. i.e. the build fails with extra warnings until we do something about it. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 11:00:50 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:00:50 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537C83C3.2060702@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> <537C83C3.2060702@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CBFA2.6020504@uvic.ca> On 14-05-21 03:45 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > How, out of curiosity, do you think translated names for attributes > should be handled? e.g. in the spec for att.damaged, the Spanish > translator has decided to translate the content of the element as > well as the surrounding text, resulting in things like "

La > etiqueta da?o con el atributo grado debe ser > utilizado..." > > I think this is just plain wrong, not only because it's inconsistent > with the practice of other translators, but also because it implies that > there is somewhere an attribute called "grado", which there isn't. 100% agree. I think this is just an oversight. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 11:01:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:01:46 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537CBFDA.5090605@uvic.ca> Yes -- sorry, I didn't mean to pinch your ticket. I was under the impression that Gabby had at some point written this explanation back when the attributes were created, and was puzzled not to find it in the prose. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-21 04:11 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Unless I'm mistaken, you've just dealt with > https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/635/ too, which I shall mark as a > sort-of-duplicate and close unless anyone objects. > > Hugh > > > On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This ticket: >> >> >> >> raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences >> between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the >> Names and Dates chapter to cover this: >> >> < >> http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Documentation/ws/Guidelines-web/en/html/ND.html#NDDATECUSTOM >>> >> >> along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the >> header chapter: >> >> < >> http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Documentation/ws/Guidelines-web/en/html/HD.html#HD44 >>> >> >> Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report >> any typos, etc. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 11:08:31 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 08:08:31 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537CAC34.8030703@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> <537CA0E5.7010602@uvic.ca> <537CAC34.8030703@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CC16F.5030002@uvic.ca> On 14-05-21 06:37 AM, James Cummings wrote: > On 21/05/14 13:49, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Then there's attributes and their default no-namespace namespace... > > *puts hands over ears* > I can't hear you. I can't hear you. > *takes hands off of ears and looks around* > > > (Yes, I know that is a problem, but is consistently a problem in > many standards across the intertubes.) Actually, @scheme handles this, now I look at it. It ignores namespaces and just uses a text identifier. But I think we could assert in the Guidelines that att[not(@scheme) or @scheme='TEI']/text() = //attDef/@ident or something like that. Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 12:14:15 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 09:14:15 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Expiring specifications In-Reply-To: References: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CD0D7.4090706@uvic.ca> I noticed it because of a Schematron warning when I validated the chapter. It didn't cause the build to fail, though, and its expiry date is already within 30 days. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-21 07:23 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 21 May 2014, at 10:19, James Cummings wrote: > >> >> That seems reasonable to me. Do we have something in the build >> process that automagically warns us when one of these is >> approaching? (e.g. a couple months away?) > > yes, it starts squeaking 30 days out, I think. i.e. the build fails with extra > warnings until we do something about it. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 13:17:38 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:17:38 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Expiring specifications In-Reply-To: <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B88DC.3050401@uvic.ca> <537C6FB9.2070500@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CDFB2.2010907@uvic.ca> OK, I've removed it (although I left comments so we can put it back if we need to). Let's see if it builds OK. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-21 02:19 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > That seems reasonable to me. Do we have something in the build > process that automagically warns us when one of these is > approaching? (e.g. a couple months away?) > > -james > > On 20/05/14 17:54, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Before the next release, we have >> >> : validUntil="2014-06-17" >> >> It's referenced in five other specifications (listEvent, listNym, >> listOrg, listPerson, listPlace). >> >> Since we won't be doing a release until well after the expiry date, is >> there any objection to removing it and cleaning up after it now? That'll >> allow a little time for any possible side-effects to emerge and be >> sorted out. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> > > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 21 13:18:50 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 10:18:50 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <537CDFFA.4020601@uvic.ca> On 14-05-20 01:54 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > I've had a quick look and think this looks good, though I think it might > make clearer that the custom-xxx attributes provide a (non-standard) > normalized form, perhaps by complementing same with the standard > normalised equivalent. I've added a new para which shows the use of @when alongside @when-custom, to provide a Gregorian equivalent of a Julian date. If that builds OK and looks right, I'll close the ticket. Cheers, Martin > > In the meantime I've taken on myself the other action suggested by the > ticket -- a sweep through the elements in P5 to see if there are > any other rogues. I found about twenty elements which don't > correspond with a TEI:attDef/@ident : the vast majority are simple > cases where a @scheme attribute has been omitted, or where the attribute > name has been translated into Spanish for some reason. I'll fix them up > shortly. > > > > On 20/05/14 18:57, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This ticket: >> >> >> >> raises the need for a proper explanation of the usage and differences >> between @calendar and @datingMethod. I've added a short section to the >> Names and Dates chapter to cover this: >> >> >> >> along with a link to it from the Calendar Description section of the >> header chapter: >> >> >> >> Please read through the section and see if it makes sense to you, report >> any typos, etc. >> >> Cheers, >> Martin > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu May 22 06:39:37 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 12:39:37 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To:

References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

Message-ID: My opinion is to reject the request since: 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should change them all 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they have different markup semantic 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is nesting or inside 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of TEI scheme. Fabio assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti Comment: Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation ________________________________ [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) Status: open Group: AMBER Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC Owner: Fabio Ciotti Considering that the element is parallel to the element in annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be partially lost). ________________________________ From stadler at edirom.de Thu May 22 08:37:05 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 14:37:05 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

Message-ID: <4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> Sounds reasonable. +1 for rejecting Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : > My opinion is to reject the request since: > > 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar > semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should > change them all > 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its > content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they > have different markup semantic > 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is > nesting or inside > 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of > TEI scheme. > > Fabio > > > assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti > Comment: > > Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation > > ________________________________ > > [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) > > Status: open > Group: AMBER > Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila > Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC > Owner: Fabio Ciotti > > Considering that the element is parallel to the element in > annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be > considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike > class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for > annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the > att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers > (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be > partially lost). > > ________________________________ > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140522/093fc5af/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu May 22 10:35:16 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:35:16 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] @calendar and @datingMethod In-Reply-To: <537CC16F.5030002@uvic.ca> References: <537B97A3.1070902@uvic.ca> <537BC10B.1040407@retired.ox.ac.uk> <537BC20B.1080902@uvic.ca> <537C71DF.1070007@it.ox.ac.uk> <537CA0E5.7010602@uvic.ca> <537CAC34.8030703@it.ox.ac.uk> <537CC16F.5030002@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <537E0B24.6070605@it.ox.ac.uk> On 21/05/14 16:08, Martin Holmes wrote: >> (Yes, I know that is a problem, but is consistently a problem in >> many standards across the intertubes.) > > Actually, @scheme handles this, now I look at it. It ignores namespaces > and just uses a text identifier. But I think we could assert in the > Guidelines that > > att[not(@scheme) or @scheme='TEI']/text() = //attDef/@ident > > or something like that. Sure, we can assert that, and a good test for our uses, but it doesn't stop the fact that many other standards also use the null namespace for their attributes and I hear people refer to attributes "in the TEI namespace" when they aren't, technically. Only a problem really when combining documents, but maybe something we should mention somewhere, if we don't. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu May 22 10:37:45 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:37:45 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: <4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> Message-ID: <537E0BB9.2000309@it.ox.ac.uk> Agree, I instantly thought I would have done #3 in any case (since numbers can be made up of more than one word...). I vote for closing with closed-rejected. -James On 22/05/14 13:37, Peter Stadler wrote: > Sounds reasonable. > +1 for rejecting > > Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : > >> My opinion is to reject the request since: >> >> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >> change them all >> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >> have different markup semantic >> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >> nesting or inside >> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >> TEI scheme. >> >> Fabio >> >> >> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >> Comment: >> >> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >> >> ________________________________ >> >> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >> >> Status: open >> Group: AMBER >> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >> >> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >> partially lost). >> >> ________________________________ >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From philomousos at gmail.com Thu May 22 10:43:23 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 10:43:23 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: <537E0BB9.2000309@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> <537E0BB9.2000309@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: +1 On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 10:37 AM, James Cummings wrote: > Agree, I instantly thought I would have done #3 in any case > (since numbers can be made up of more than one word...). I vote > for closing with closed-rejected. > > -James > > On 22/05/14 13:37, Peter Stadler wrote: > > Sounds reasonable. > > +1 for rejecting > > > > Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : > > > >> My opinion is to reject the request since: > >> > >> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar > >> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should > >> change them all > >> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its > >> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they > >> have different markup semantic > >> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is > >> nesting or inside > >> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of > >> TEI scheme. > >> > >> Fabio > >> > >> > >> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti > >> Comment: > >> > >> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and > implementation > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of > att.fragmentable) > >> > >> Status: open > >> Group: AMBER > >> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila > >> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC > >> Owner: Fabio Ciotti > >> > >> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in > >> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be > >> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike > >> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for > >> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the > >> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers > >> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be > >> partially lost). > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> -- > >> tei-council mailing list > >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >> > >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > > > > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu May 22 11:27:35 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 08:27:35 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: <4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> Message-ID: <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> Should we contact the submitter to see whether they have any good arguments that make nesting , or inside to solve the problem an inadequate solution? Cheers, Martin On 14-05-22 05:37 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: > Sounds reasonable. > +1 for rejecting > > Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : > >> My opinion is to reject the request since: >> >> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >> change them all >> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >> have different markup semantic >> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >> nesting or inside >> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >> TEI scheme. >> >> Fabio >> >> >> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >> Comment: >> >> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >> >> ________________________________ >> >> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >> >> Status: open >> Group: AMBER >> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >> >> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >> partially lost). >> >> ________________________________ >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > From s.bauman at neu.edu Fri May 23 06:13:50 2014 From: s.bauman at neu.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 06:13:50 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] maintaining radio silence; minor bug report Message-ID: <21375.8030.392758.495770@paramedic.wwp.northeastern.edu> I have briefly poked my head up from the sand to submit a bug report.[1] I have not assigned it to myself, but will tackle it over the summer if no one else does. (It seems a trivially easy fix, but I don't want to take the time right now that might be needed to deal with problems should the build fail.) But to my colleagues on Council I apologize: this does not indicate my re-entrance into the world of TEI yet. I expect to be maintaining radio silence on this list (and TEI-L) until at least Sat 06-21, and maybe until our face-to-face in Oxford. James -- you should not assign me any work before Oxford that I could not do on the flight over. (And check-in on arrival.) If there are documents or particular threads you would like me to catch up on before Oxford, let me know that, too. (I probably will not physically be able to catch up on everything.) (In case y'all don't know, the reason is because my 17 year-old daughter has cancer. While her prognosis is excellent, chemo still sucks. But she'll be done with that in mid-June.) Notes ----- [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/671/ From stadler at edirom.de Fri May 23 14:21:29 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 20:21:29 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl Message-ID: Dear all, is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140523/9dda14fb/attachment-0001.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun May 25 12:08:20 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 16:08:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> On 23 May 2014, at 19:21, Peter Stadler wrote: > > is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? > My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) it?s a fair point. since can appear as a child of , it should also appear as part of if you do this, does the current ODD processing take account of it? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From stadler at edirom.de Mon May 26 03:31:56 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 09:31:56 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl In-Reply-To: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6973F706-7728-4B94-93B0-CD8BEEF03A27@edirom.de> Am 25.05.2014 um 18:08 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz: >> is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? >> My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) > > it?s a fair point. since can appear as a child of , it should also > appear as part of > > if you do this, does the current ODD processing take account of it? The current ODD processing is not affected by these schema constraints and processes the with the s just fine (for me). I added a ticket for adding to model.oddDecl. If nobody objects, I will simply make that change ? Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140526/39fd563d/attachment.bin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon May 26 03:36:45 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 08:36:45 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl In-Reply-To: <6973F706-7728-4B94-93B0-CD8BEEF03A27@edirom.de> References: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <6973F706-7728-4B94-93B0-CD8BEEF03A27@edirom.de> Message-ID: <5382EF0D.5090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> +1 from me On 26/05/14 08:31, Peter Stadler wrote: > Am 25.05.2014 um 18:08 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz: > >>> is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? >>> My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) >> it's a fair point. since can appear as a child of , it should also >> appear as part of >> >> if you do this, does the current ODD processing take account of it? > The current ODD processing is not affected by these schema constraints and processes the with the s just fine (for me). > I added a ticket for adding to model.oddDecl. If nobody objects, I will simply make that change ... > > Best > Peter > > > > From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Mon May 26 05:01:50 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 09:01:50 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl In-Reply-To: <5382EF0D.5090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <6973F706-7728-4B94-93B0-CD8BEEF03A27@edirom.de>, <5382EF0D.5090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: +1 also from me. James -------- Original message -------- From: Lou Burnard Date:2014/05/26 08:36 (GMT+00:00) To: tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU Subject: Re: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl +1 from me On 26/05/14 08:31, Peter Stadler wrote: > Am 25.05.2014 um 18:08 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz: > >>> is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? >>> My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) >> it's a fair point. since can appear as a child of , it should also >> appear as part of >> >> if you do this, does the current ODD processing take account of it? > The current ODD processing is not affected by these schema constraints and processes the with the s just fine (for me). > I added a ticket for adding to model.oddDecl. If nobody objects, I will simply make that change ... > > Best > Peter > > > > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon May 26 12:26:46 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 09:26:46 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] constraintSpec not member of model.oddDecl In-Reply-To: <5382EF0D.5090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53559B7A-2FFD-4A1C-8F86-B481D0167C9F@it.ox.ac.uk> <6973F706-7728-4B94-93B0-CD8BEEF03A27@edirom.de> <5382EF0D.5090401@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53836B46.7040605@uvic.ca> +1 from me too. Especially since there's no extra work for Sebastian. :-) On 14-05-26 12:36 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > +1 from me > > On 26/05/14 08:31, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Am 25.05.2014 um 18:08 schrieb Sebastian Rahtz: >> >>>> is there any reason that constraintSpec is not a member of model.oddDecl? >>>> My use case is to have a specGrp with only constraintSpec children for general purpose constraints (e.g. prohibit whitespace only content for several elements) >>> it's a fair point. since can appear as a child of , it should also >>> appear as part of >>> >>> if you do this, does the current ODD processing take account of it? >> The current ODD processing is not affected by these schema constraints and processes the with the s just fine (for me). >> I added a ticket for adding to model.oddDecl. If nobody objects, I will simply make that change ... >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> >> >> > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue May 27 05:12:58 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 11:12:58 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> Message-ID: In general I would say no, since I don't think the TEI schema should change so deeply for the requirements of a single user, especially if there is a reasonable solution inside the actual schema. But if you feel it would be nice to contact the submitter personally I can do it (anyway many months have passed and probably they did find a solution). Fabio 2014-05-22 17:27 GMT+02:00 Martin Holmes : > Should we contact the submitter to see whether they have any good > arguments that make nesting , or inside to solve > the problem an inadequate solution? > > Cheers, > Martin > > On 14-05-22 05:37 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >> Sounds reasonable. >> +1 for rejecting >> >> Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : >> >>> My opinion is to reject the request since: >>> >>> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >>> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >>> change them all >>> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >>> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >>> have different markup semantic >>> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >>> nesting or inside >>> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >>> TEI scheme. >>> >>> Fabio >>> >>> >>> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >>> Comment: >>> >>> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >>> >>> Status: open >>> Group: AMBER >>> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >>> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >>> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >>> >>> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >>> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >>> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >>> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >>> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >>> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >>> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >>> partially lost). >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 28 08:41:39 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:41:39 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] dating-custom attributes https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/670/ Message-ID: <5385D983.3040608@it.ox.ac.uk> I believe https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/bugs/670/ to be a corrigible error and will add 'custom' to the descriptions of the *-custom dating attributes to make them consistent if no one complains quickly. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 28 12:11:37 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 17:11:37 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Upcoming teleconference Message-ID: <53860AB9.5050608@it.ox.ac.uk> I will circulate the calling details again in the next day or so, but just a reminder that there is a meeting on Friday at 2pm Oxford time. I've started adding things to the agenda at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-05 Do add additional items you think we need to report on. And remind yourself of some of our actions at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/tcm58.xml -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed May 28 12:30:15 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 17:30:15 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Object Working Group Message-ID: <53860F17.60405@it.ox.ac.uk> One of the actions from the previous meeting was the Object Working Group which we were supposed to comment on: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/tcm58.xml#body.1_div.9 http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/ObjectWG We had agreed it all in principal so unless I hear any shouts to the contrary I will remind Torsten etc. that we've agreed to it (and to possibly contributing to some expenses). Best, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 28 16:19:06 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:19:06 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:feature-requests] #488 Add @points to att.coordinated In-Reply-To:

References: <52aacca27929e53e9241149e.feature-requests@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

Message-ID: <538644BA.6090300@uvic.ca> Just following up on this ticket assigned to me. The situation is: Several elements (, , and ) are members of att.coordinated, giving them some attributes such as @ulx and @uly which enable them to be delimited on a two-dimensional matrix, but only as rectangles. has an additional attribute, @points, which enables it to be described as a polygon (a series of points). The ticket calls for @points to be moved from being specified directly on into the att.coordinated classSpec, which would make it available on the other members of that class too. Having looked again at this, I stand by my original comment on the ticket: "This seems to me to be a simple corrigible error in the original implementation of @points, which should have been added to att.coordinated rather than specified directly on . A side-effect of moving it to att.coordinated would be that and would also inherit it; for that makes perfect sense -- anything that can be outlined using a rectangle can presumably also be outlined using a polygon -- but is rather an odd case; I'm not sure it needs to be in att.coordinated at all. It's simply a grouping element for elements, used (for instance, from one of the Glines examples) to group all the leafs of a quire. None of our example show the use of dimensions on . That said, it seems harmless for it to have those attributes, and perhaps someone wants to group surfaces (or surface groups) on a single plane, and specify their coordinates." I vote we go ahead with this. I think once it's done, we should also raise another ticket to consider the other attributes defined on , @rotate, to decide whether that also should be moved; I think that's a more complicated question, especially since we're now able to use CSS properties to handle features such as rotation anyway. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-19 09:52 AM, James Cummings wrote: > * *assigned_to*: Martin Holmes > * *Comment*: > > Assigning to Martin Holmes to triage and report to council. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *[feature-requests:#488] > Add @points to > att.coordinated* > > *Status:* open > *Group:* AMBER > *Created:* Fri Dec 13, 2013 09:00 AM UTC by Martin de la Iglesia > *Last Updated:* Fri Dec 13, 2013 04:22 PM UTC > *Owner:* Martin Holmes > > The element currently defines rectangles only. Adding @points > to att.coordinated will allow the definition of non-rectangular > surfaces. This was already proposed in Feature Request #218 "Add > @svg:points to att.coordinated" > (https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/218/) but for some > reason not implemented yet. > See also TEI-L: > http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind1312&L=TEI-L#19 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Sent from sourceforge.net because you indicated interest in > https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/488/ > > To unsubscribe from further messages, please visit > https://sourceforge.net/auth/subscriptions/ > From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed May 28 16:21:24 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 13:21:24 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Text Directionality section now in guidelines for proofing In-Reply-To: <53640C27.7000804@uvic.ca> References: <53640C27.7000804@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53864544.3020000@uvic.ca> Just a reminder: this new work (see below) does need some fresh eyes on it. Please take a look if you can. We may want to defer discussion of it till the face-to-face meeting, but if you can give us any comments on Friday, we'll have more chance to deal with them ahead of the ftf. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-02 02:20 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks to lots of sterling work from Lou, and a fair bit of strenuous > discussion, the new Text Directionality section has been added to > Chapter 5 of the Guidelines, and is available for comment: > > > > All feedback much appreciated; please check that it makes sense to you, > and report any typos etc. We still have a one issue we're thinking > about: the possibility that the mention of Ogham is distracting (I would > argue it's not a bottom-to-top language, so it doesn't belong). > > Cheers, > Martin > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri May 30 08:08:34 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 13:08:34 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference 2014-05-30 Message-ID: <538874C2.7000902@it.ox.ac.uk> The proto agenda for our meeting in about an hour is available at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-05 The connection information is below. We'll be using the same conferencing system as last time run by economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. If your number doesn't work, use skype to connect to the US number. (I have contacted ECC Support for an updated list and checked all these numbers!) (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical location as another council member, do consider sharing a conference/speaker phone.) US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 Canada: Use US number. UK: 0800-016-3440 Germany: 0800-182-0270 France: 0800-916-758 Italy: 800-789-804 Austria: 0800-296-507 (If you need a different country number, please see the attached PDF.) You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. Dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access code: 4614041 followed by the # button. You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute your line using *6. Questions? Updates to the agenda? Volunteers to do minutes? -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ITFS.UIFN.List.Summit.EconomyConferenceCall-1.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 106171 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140530/2c57213a/attachment-0001.pdf From philomousos at gmail.com Fri May 30 08:32:48 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 08:32:48 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference 2014-05-30 In-Reply-To: <538874C2.7000902@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <538874C2.7000902@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Added a bit on the TEI Pointers draft (which I hope is ready for merge). On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 8:08 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > The proto agenda for our meeting in about an hour is available at: > > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-05 > > The connection information is below. We'll be using the same > conferencing system as last time run by > economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in > toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the > Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. If your number > doesn't work, use skype to connect to the US number. (I have contacted ECC > Support for an updated list and checked all these numbers!) > > (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical > location as another council member, do consider sharing a > conference/speaker phone.) > > US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 > Canada: Use US number. > UK: 0800-016-3440 > Germany: 0800-182-0270 > France: 0800-916-758 > Italy: 800-789-804 > Austria: 0800-296-507 > > (If you need a different country number, please see the attached PDF.) > > You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice > saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. > > Dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access > code: 4614041 followed by the # button. > > You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute > your line using *6. > > Questions? > > Updates to the agenda? > > Volunteers to do minutes? > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri May 30 08:36:22 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 13:36:22 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Teleconference 2014-05-30 In-Reply-To: References: <538874C2.7000902@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53887B46.4040001@it.ox.ac.uk> And I've opened up a word-writeable google doc at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gLi_8RRF6DRhiZVMpm2hO8HX_vad9lTN5N1XsDk-pTo/edit?usp=sharing For minutes -James On 30/05/14 13:32, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Added a bit on the TEI Pointers draft (which I hope is ready for merge). > > > On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 8:08 AM, James Cummings > wrote: > >> >> The proto agenda for our meeting in about an hour is available at: >> >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-05 >> >> The connection information is below. We'll be using the same >> conferencing system as last time run by >> economyconferencecall.com. This should allow you to dial in >> toll-free and is using an account that is also being used for the >> Board and the TEI-C will pay for the toll-free calls. If your number >> doesn't work, use skype to connect to the US number. (I have contacted ECC >> Support for an updated list and checked all these numbers!) >> >> (Though the cost is per call so if you are in the same physical >> location as another council member, do consider sharing a >> conference/speaker phone.) >> >> US: 866-906-0040 or 857-288-2640 >> Canada: Use US number. >> UK: 0800-016-3440 >> Germany: 0800-182-0270 >> France: 0800-916-758 >> Italy: 800-789-804 >> Austria: 0800-296-507 >> >> (If you need a different country number, please see the attached PDF.) >> >> You may wish to test this number. If you get a recorded voice >> saying 'Welcome to the Audio Bridge' you've got to the right place. >> >> Dial the appropriate number, and then enter the access >> code: 4614041 followed by the # button. >> >> You'll be asked to give your name. I'm told you can mute/unmute >> your line using *6. >> >> Questions? >> >> Updates to the agenda? >> >> Volunteers to do minutes? >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri May 30 13:24:01 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 18:24:01 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] shameless plug Message-ID: <5388BEB1.8050909@retired.ox.ac.uk> By the way, I forgot to draw your attention during this afternoon's call to the recent publication of my wonderful little book on "What is the TEI". It's exactly what you need for all those introductory courses you're organising about the TEI. You can get it free online, or you can BUY massive quantities for your students at a reasonable price. See http://books.openedition.org/oep/426 for details! From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri May 30 13:48:24 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 10:48:24 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] shameless plug In-Reply-To: <5388BEB1.8050909@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5388BEB1.8050909@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5388C468.3060201@uvic.ca> You might suggest that our new Social Media maven blog and tweet about this. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-30 10:24 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > By the way, I forgot to draw your attention during this afternoon's call > to the recent publication of my wonderful little book on "What is the TEI". > > It's exactly what you need for all those introductory courses you're > organising about the TEI. You can get it free online, or you can BUY > massive quantities for your students at a reasonable price. See > http://books.openedition.org/oep/426 for details! > > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri May 30 14:15:55 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 18:15:55 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Re : shameless plug In-Reply-To: <5388C468.3060201@uvic.ca> References: <5388BEB1.8050909@retired.ox.ac.uk>,<5388C468.3060201@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <310BF05B-C0E5-4016-8D4E-B123173B4F3D@retired.ox.ac.uk> I think he has already but no harm in asking again... Envoy? depuis mon HTC ----- Reply message ----- De : "Martin Holmes" Pour : "tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU" Objet : [tei-council] shameless plug Date : ven., mai 30, 2014 19:49 You might suggest that our new Social Media maven blog and tweet about this. Cheers, Martin On 14-05-30 10:24 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > By the way, I forgot to draw your attention during this afternoon's call > to the recent publication of my wonderful little book on "What is the TEI". > > It's exactly what you need for all those introductory courses you're > organising about the TEI. You can get it free online, or you can BUY > massive quantities for your students at a reasonable price. See > http://books.openedition.org/oep/426 for details! > > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Tue Jun 3 17:11:00 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 23:11:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [tei-council] Some short IIIF related XSLTs for TEI files In-Reply-To: <1993558206.8905927.1401826800136.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Message-ID: <1417179318.8907995.1401829860894.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Dear Council members, recently I wrote some short XSL transformations now available via Github, see https://github.com/stefaniegehrke/TEI-2-SC, dealing with challenges regarding a display of transcriptions - deriving from TEI files - in a viewer using IIIF (http://iiif.io/). The files were created in the frame of the French Biblissima project and serve to advance in the project?s case studies on interoperability and image repositories using Shared Canvas (IIIF). As the number and complexity of the above transformations will (hopefully) gradually grow, I would be glad if you could give some technical comments on the kind of structure etc. or previous experiences, that will help the common goal of having a collection of purpose oriented transformations that will make TEI data available / merge TEI data from different sources for display using IIIF. Regards Stefanie From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Jun 4 12:11:39 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:11:39 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Pointers committed Message-ID: All, I have changed the example to Latin, and hopefully managed not to ruin everything in the process. And I've committed my pointers branch back to SVN trunk as of a few minutes ago. Have at it! Hugh From mholmes at uvic.ca Wed Jun 4 20:25:35 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:25:35 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Pointers committed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <538FB8FF.4020802@uvic.ca> On 14-06-04 09:11 AM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > All, I have changed the example to Latin, and hopefully managed not to ruin > everything in the process. And I've committed my pointers branch back to > SVN trunk as of a few minutes ago. Lovely work. New bits can be seen here: I like the Latin examples (although I liked the Greek too -- it was easier to distinguish the data from the tagging with Greek content). One thing I might suggest is to add some linebreaks in the examples so they're a bit more human-readable. Cheers, Martin > > Have at it! > > Hugh > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 14:39:06 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 19:39:06 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] eh? Message-ID: <5390B94A.8030003@retired.ox.ac.uk> Trying to run the usual P5 makefile I am seeing this error BUILD FAILED /home/lou/Public/TEI-SF/P5/Test/antruntest.xml:57: stylesheet /home/lou/Public/TEI-SF/P5/Stylesheets/release/tei-xsl/p5/odds/odd2odd.xsl doesn't exist. Any clews? Why don't I just check it in and let Mr Jenkins handle it? Because Mr Sourceforge is being temperamental and won't let me check anything in. It must be the weather. From stadler at edirom.de Thu Jun 5 15:17:06 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:17:06 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates Message-ID: Dear all, sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there?s just one week between the members? meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn?t it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ? Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! Best Peter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140605/d3ba3753/attachment-0001.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 15:25:05 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 19:25:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] eh? In-Reply-To: <5390B94A.8030003@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <5390B94A.8030003@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <136c1dd6-e4ba-4f8a-b37a-97fb1626d81d@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 5 Jun 2014, at 20:39, Lou Burnard wrote: > Trying to run the usual P5 makefile I am seeing this error > > BUILD FAILED > /home/lou/Public/TEI-SF/P5/Test/antruntest.xml:57: stylesheet > /home/lou/Public/TEI-SF/P5/Stylesheets/release/tei-xsl/p5/odds/odd2odd.xsl > doesn't exist. > > Any clews? i think Hugh may have uncommented one of the XSL= lines in the Makefile by mistake -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 16:04:18 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 21:04:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5390CD42.4050302@retired.ox.ac.uk> Well, yes, it would be much more convenient (for some of us) if the ftf__meeting dates moved back a week. However, when I asked in the telecon, Hugh said this was not possible. On 05/06/14 20:17, Peter Stadler wrote: > Dear all, > > sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there's just one week between the members' meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn't it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ... > Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! > > Best > Peter > > > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Jun 5 16:09:58 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 22:09:58 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Count me in as well, I've always dreamed to make a road trip along Road 66 !! Out of joke. I think that Peter observation is sound. I'm struggling to find funds to be in Evanston and present my paper at the meeting. Unifying the two events would be really a nice thing. Fabio 2014-06-05 21:17 GMT+02:00 Peter Stadler : > Dear all, > > sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there?s just one week between the members? meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn?t it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ? > Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! > > Best > Peter > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Thu Jun 5 16:23:00 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 16:23:00 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1401999780.19147.125672345.51403E20@webmail.messagingengine.com> The current arrangement *does* give Lou enough time to get from Chicago to Durham by train. Capitol Limited from Chicago to DC, an overnight stay, then the Carolinian down the coast, I think. A total of almost exactly 24 hours by rail, not counting the layover. Going by road, stop by in Ann Arbor for a few days. We'll put (some of) you up. Realistically, however, the point is a good one. Ten days between the two events is an awkward interval to bridge. I hadn't noticed, I think, because the two months appear on different google calendar pages. pfs On Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 16:09, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Count me in as well, I've always dreamed to make a road trip along Road > 66 !! > Out of joke. I think that Peter observation is sound. I'm struggling > to find funds to be in Evanston and present my paper at the meeting. > Unifying the two events would be really a nice thing. > > Fabio > > 2014-06-05 21:17 GMT+02:00 Peter Stadler : > > Dear all, > > > > sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there?s just one week between the members? meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn?t it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ? > > Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! > > > > Best > > Peter > > > > > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 16:49:28 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2014 21:49:28 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: <1401999780.19147.125672345.51403E20@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1401999780.19147.125672345.51403E20@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <5390D7D8.5060202@retired.ox.ac.uk> Now you've got me interested... chicago - cincinatii - charlottesville - greensboro - durham looks entirely plausible. But hard to spin out to ten days... On 05/06/14 21:23, Paul Schaffner wrote: > The current arrangement *does* give Lou enough time to get from > Chicago to Durham by train. Capitol Limited from Chicago to DC, > an overnight stay, then the Carolinian down the coast, I think. A total > of almost exactly 24 hours by rail, not counting the layover. > > Going by road, stop by in Ann Arbor for a few days. We'll put (some > of) you up. > > Realistically, however, the point is a good one. Ten days between > the two events is an awkward interval to bridge. I hadn't noticed, > I think, because the two months appear on different google calendar > pages. > > pfs > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014, at 16:09, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> Count me in as well, I've always dreamed to make a road trip along Road >> 66 !! >> Out of joke. I think that Peter observation is sound. I'm struggling >> to find funds to be in Evanston and present my paper at the meeting. >> Unifying the two events would be really a nice thing. >> >> Fabio >> >> 2014-06-05 21:17 GMT+02:00 Peter Stadler : >>> Dear all, >>> >>> sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there?s just one week between the members? meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn?t it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ? >>> Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! >>> >>> Best >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jun 5 17:22:12 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:22:12 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5390DF84.20600@uvic.ca> On 14-06-05 01:09 PM, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Count me in as well, I've always dreamed to make a road trip along Road 66 !! > Out of joke. I think that Peter observation is sound. I'm struggling > to find funds to be in Evanston and present my paper at the meeting. > Unifying the two events would be really a nice thing. +1 from me. I wonder if we should try to plan Council meetings directly before or after Members' meetings if we can. Cheers, Martin > Fabio > > 2014-06-05 21:17 GMT+02:00 Peter Stadler : >> Dear all, >> >> sorry to revoke that thread but it just occurred to me, that there?s just one week between the members? meeting and the Council f2f. Wouldn?t it be much cheaper (at least for the Europeans) not to fly back and forth? Not to speak of jet lag ? >> Or are you planning a nice road trip across the States? Then count me in! >> >> Best >> Peter >> >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 5 17:28:35 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:28:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fall meeting dates In-Reply-To: <5390DF84.20600@uvic.ca> References: <5390DF84.20600@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 5 Jun 2014, at 23:22, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Count me in as well, I've always dreamed to make a road trip along Road 66 !! >> Out of joke. I think that Peter observation is sound. I'm struggling >> to find funds to be in Evanston and present my paper at the meeting. >> Unifying the two events would be really a nice thing. > > +1 from me. I wonder if we should try to plan Council meetings directly > before or after Members' meetings if we can. there's the usual counter-argument - taking 2 weeks off work is pretty hard for some people, whereas week on, week off, week on is easier (though more expensive). -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jun 6 11:46:19 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:46:19 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Status of Message-ID: <5391E24B.4010203@uvic.ca> Hi all, I have a very stale old ticket here: which calls for better documentation of the element. It got stalled because there was a suggestion that some of the changes being implemented by Lou to improve ODD independence from RelaxNG might make the element obsolete. I tried to use in one of my ODDs in April, but couldn't make it do what I thought it should, so I rewrote the ODD to work a different way. In its "home" chapter, TD (Documentation Elements), the element is listed but never mentioned. The only bit of the Guidelines that mentions it is here: This suggests (although please correct me if I'm wrong) that is created as an intermediate processing step when processing a complex ODD (i.e. it doesn't provide an example of a human using in a real ODD). I'm not sure how to proceed on this ticket at the moment, so if you can help by answering these questions (particularly Lou and Sebastian) I'd be glad: 1. Are there (currently) any good use-cases for end-users which depend on the use of and which will work with current ODD processing? 2. If there are such use-cases, can the same results be achieved using other existing elements and attributes? 3. Will future plans for ODD make obsolete anyway? Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jun 6 17:18:40 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:18:40 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? Message-ID: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text mixed in, or just text. I have this: but the result is a content model which does not allow text between elements. I've also tried this: but this does not allow only text content. I've tried it with and without the macroRef, with the same result. It looks to me as though "allowText='true'" is not quite functioning the way it seems that it should. Am I missing something? What's the right way to do this? Cheers, Martin From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 6 17:48:49 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 22:48:49 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53923741.7000208@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 06/06/14 22:18, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD > elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text > mixed in, or just text. I have this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would represent what I think you want (but I may be completely misunderstanding it...) much more simply : However, that doesn't seem to work as it should. There was a bug in the stylesheets in the handling of @allowText which I thought Sebastian had fixed. But maybe he hasn't allowed for this attribute to appear on . I don't think the macroRef does what you want -- it inserts a reference to data.text, not text. From mholmes at uvic.ca Fri Jun 6 20:17:11 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:17:11 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53923741.7000208@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53923741.7000208@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53925A07.2000504@uvic.ca> Hi Lou, On 14-06-06 02:48 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 06/06/14 22:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >> mixed in, or just text. I have this: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > I would represent what I think you want (but I may be completely > misunderstanding it...) much more simply : > > > > > > > > > > > > That's what I actually started with, so we're both on the same page regarding how we expect things to work. > However, that doesn't seem to work as it should. There was a bug in the > stylesheets in the handling of @allowText which I thought Sebastian had > fixed. But maybe he hasn't allowed for this attribute to appear on > . I've been using the Oxygen ant task to generate the schema, but if Sebastian's fixed a bug recently then I should probably try again with the latest Stylesheets. I'll do that and report back. Cheers, Martin > I don't think the macroRef does what you want -- it inserts a reference > to data.text, not text. > > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 07:26:32 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 12:26:32 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53925A07.2000504@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53923741.7000208@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53925A07.2000504@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <5392F6E8.5070107@retired.ox.ac.uk> A little more experimentation shows that @allowText only works as you'd expect in a very small number of specific cases, and can also lead to your generating an invalid schema. We did say that the implementation of pureODD is still experimental! For example: ?l?ment racine d'un sch?ma simplissime does what you'd expect and generates the following RNC element stuff { (text | bit | bob | t1)* } (it produces the following nonsense in DTD though - that's a bug!) Placing @allowText on or however has no effect: generates element stuff { ( bit | bob | t1)* } (but at least the DTD generated is correct) The presence of @allowText also implies alternation of its children. Hence: generates this monster * element stuff { (text | (text | bit | bob | t1)*)* }* I think the rule of thumb is that @allowText="true" will always try to generate a valid XML mixed content model and hence it usually makes sense only on I note also that the only example of how to use @allowText in the Guidelines is within a macro spec, which is probably a little unhelpful. Definitive word must await the return of the mighty Rahtz from Brussells, where I assume he is busy ensuring the election of Herr Juncker. On 07/06/14 01:17, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi Lou, > > On 14-06-06 02:48 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: >> On 06/06/14 22:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>> mixed in, or just text. I have this: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I would represent what I think you want (but I may be completely >> misunderstanding it...) much more simply : >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > That's what I actually started with, so we're both on the same page > regarding how we expect things to work. > >> However, that doesn't seem to work as it should. There was a bug in the >> stylesheets in the handling of @allowText which I thought Sebastian had >> fixed. But maybe he hasn't allowed for this attribute to appear on >> . > I've been using the Oxygen ant task to generate the schema, but if > Sebastian's fixed a bug recently then I should probably try again with > the latest Stylesheets. I'll do that and report back. > > Cheers, > Martin > >> I don't think the macroRef does what you want -- it inserts a reference >> to data.text, not text. >> >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 12:36:58 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:36:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <5392F6E8.5070107@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53923741.7000208@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53925A07.2000504@uvic.ca> <5392F6E8.5070107@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 7 Jun 2014, at 13:26, Lou Burnard wrote: > A little more experimentation shows that @allowText only works as you'd > expect in a very small number of specific cases, and can also lead to > your generating an invalid schema. we need to decide whether it _should_ work in the other cases. > For example: > > > ?l?ment racine d'un sch?ma simplissime > > > > > > > > does what you'd expect and generates the following RNC > > element stuff { (text | bit | bob | t1)* } > > (it produces the following nonsense in DTD though > > > - that's a bug!) indeed. i agree. > > Placing @allowText on or however has no effect: > > > maxOccurs="unbounded"> > > > > > > > generates > > element stuff { ( bit | bob | t1)* } > > (but at least the DTD generated is correct) these are bugs, I agree > > The presence of @allowText also implies alternation of its children. > > Hence: > > > > > > > > > > generates this monster > * element stuff { (text | (text | bit | bob | t1)*)* }* that should be factored out, I agree. > Definitive word must await the return of the mighty Rahtz from > Brussells, where I assume he is busy ensuring the election of Herr Juncker. only if Mr Juncker is interested in RDM. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 12:50:03 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 16:50:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD > elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text > mixed in, or just text. i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML > I have this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you can?t have a content model in which the elements occur in a fixed order, with optional spaces between. not as I understand XML. you also can?t have a choice between ?text? or ?text with elements?. doesn?t make sense. are you trying to constrain the order of elements or not? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jun 7 17:33:29 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 14:33:29 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> Hi Sebastian, On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >> mixed in, or just text. > > i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what tei:p is? > >> I have this: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > you can?t have a content model in which the elements occur in a fixed order, with optional spaces > between. not as I understand XML. I don't want them in a fixed order. I said @preserveOrder="false" -- isn't that what @preserveOrder is for? > you also can?t have a choice between ?text? or ?text with elements?. doesn?t make sense. No, I agree. I want mixed content which may or may not include text or any of the elements, just like tei:p. > are you trying to constrain the order of elements or not? No. As it says, @preserveOrder="false". It could be that I'm completely misunderstanding what @preserveOrder is for, though. Cheers, Martin > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 17:37:22 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2014 22:37:22 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 07/06/14 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: > Hi Sebastian, > > On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>> mixed in, or just text. >> i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML > I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of > a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what > tei:p is? Then all you need is From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jun 7 17:38:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 14:38:58 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> On 14-06-07 02:37 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 07/06/14 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: >> Hi Sebastian, >> >> On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >>>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>>> mixed in, or just text. >>> i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML >> I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of >> a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what >> tei:p is? > > Then all you need is > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure that's the first thing I tried, but it didn't work; the resulting RNG disallowed just text. But I'll try it again... Cheers, Martin From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jun 7 17:44:38 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 14:44:38 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> On 14-06-07 02:38 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > On 14-06-07 02:37 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: >> On 07/06/14 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> Hi Sebastian, >>> >>> On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>> On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>>>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>>>> mixed in, or just text. >>>> i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML >>> I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of >>> a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what >>> tei:p is? >> >> Then all you need is >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > I'm pretty sure that's the first thing I tried, but it didn't work; the > resulting RNG disallowed just text. But I'll try it again... It gets me this: (arbitrary segment) represents any segmentation of text below the chunk level. [16.3. 6.2. 7.2.5. ] characterizes the element in some sense, using any convenient classification scheme or typology. provides a sub-categorization of the element, if needed which doesn't seem to let me have text in it. So it does seem that @allowText isn't working here. Cheers, Martin > Cheers, > Martin > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jun 7 18:11:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 15:11:58 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53938E2E.4050307@uvic.ca> Incidentally, are we planning to talk about PureODD in Oxford? I really like the way it's going, despite the minor initial glitches. Cheers, Martin On 14-06-07 02:44 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > > > On 14-06-07 02:38 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: >> On 14-06-07 02:37 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: >>> On 07/06/14 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> Hi Sebastian, >>>> >>>> On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>> On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>>>>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>>>>> mixed in, or just text. >>>>> i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML >>>> I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of >>>> a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what >>>> tei:p is? >>> >>> Then all you need is >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> I'm pretty sure that's the first thing I tried, but it didn't work; the >> resulting RNG disallowed just text. But I'll try it again... > > It gets me this: > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">(arbitrary > segment) represents any segmentation of text below the chunk level. > [16.3. 6.2. 7.2.5. ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">characterizes > the element in some sense, using any convenient classification scheme or > typology. > > > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">provides a > sub-categorization of the element, if needed > > > > > > > > which doesn't seem to let me have text in it. So it does seem that > @allowText isn't working here. > > Cheers, > Martin > > >> Cheers, >> Martin >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 18:24:22 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 22:24:22 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca>,<539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <58D7EF6A-AAB5-4994-B622-D475DA2B8A4C@it.ox.ac.uk> You are using which release of Stylesheets? Carved in stone on my iPad From mholmes at uvic.ca Sat Jun 7 18:33:55 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 15:33:55 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <58D7EF6A-AAB5-4994-B622-D475DA2B8A4C@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca>, <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> <58D7EF6A-AAB5-4994-B622-D475DA2B8A4C@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53939353.8020001@uvic.ca> I'm using what's current in Oxygen 16, which I just installed, so 2.6.5 of the add-on. I was just thinking I'd try the latest checkout from the git repo but the build is broken on Jinks, and I can't find out how to run that transformation anyway -- where do all those tei2rng and similar aliases end up? Cheers, Martin On 14-06-07 03:24 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > You are using which release of Stylesheets? > > Carved in stone on my iPad > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 7 19:10:34 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:10:34 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> My mistake. You want @allowText has a lot of side effects... On 07/06/14 22:44, Martin Holmes wrote: > > On 14-06-07 02:38 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: >> On 14-06-07 02:37 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: >>> On 07/06/14 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>> Hi Sebastian, >>>> >>>> On 14-06-07 09:50 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>>>> On 6 Jun 2014, at 23:18, Martin Holmes wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm trying to create a content model for using the new TEI ODD >>>>>> elements. I want to allow any of a small number of elements, with text >>>>>> mixed in, or just text. >>>>> i am not convinced that what you want is legal in XML >>>> I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of >>>> a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what >>>> tei:p is? >>> Then all you need is >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> I'm pretty sure that's the first thing I tried, but it didn't work; the >> resulting RNG disallowed just text. But I'll try it again... > It gets me this: > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">(arbitrary > segment) represents any segmentation of text below the chunk level. > [16.3. 6.2. 7.2.5. ] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">characterizes > the element in some sense, using any convenient classification scheme or > typology. > > > > > > xmlns:a="http://relaxng.org/ns/compatibility/annotations/1.0">provides a > sub-categorization of the element, if needed > > > > > > > > which doesn't seem to let me have text in it. So it does seem that > @allowText isn't working here. > > Cheers, > Martin > > >> Cheers, >> Martin >> From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 03:13:10 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:13:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53939353.8020001@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca>,<539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> <58D7EF6A-AAB5-4994-B622-D475DA2B8A4C@it.ox.ac.uk>, <53939353.8020001@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <82C68112-9923-46A0-8A2F-5D66BD3B6610@it.ox.ac.uk> Carved in stone on my iPad > On 7 Jun 2014, at 23:34, "Martin Holmes" wrote: > > I'm using what's current in Oxygen 16, which I just installed, so 2.6.5 of the add-on. I If it's off the shelf oxy, it will not be good enough, I suspect I would subscribe to the TEI Framework Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 03:17:15 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:17:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>,<53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Carved in stone on my iPad > On 8 Jun 2014, at 00:10, "Lou Burnard" wrote: > > My mistake. You want > > > > > > > > > > > > > @allowText has a lot of side effects... Are you saying that the presence of allowText generates an implicit alternate? As it stands, I would suggest what you have above is contradictory and impossible to satisfy Sebastian From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 05:07:07 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 10:07:07 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <0A4C9E4F-88A3-4DC4-875E-A8B97181D11F@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0A4C9E4F-88A3-4DC4-875E-A8B97181D11F@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <539427BB.7070508@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 08/06/14 08:17, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > Carved in stone on my iPad > >> On 8 Jun 2014, at 00:10, "Lou Burnard" wrote: >> >> My mistake. You want >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> @allowText has a lot of side effects... > Are you saying that the presence of allowText generates an implicit alternate? krekt > As it stands, I would suggest what you have above is contradictory and impossible to satisfy once you allow text, a sequence child would be invalid and an alternate would be redundant (if we stick in the world of xml). both also open the door to invalid xml by tweaking of occurrence attributes clearly we need some scematron rules to explain this i did consider a special mixedContent element but then you'd have to use that with empty content to mean text only which seemed weirder > Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 05:40:35 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 09:40:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539427BB.7070508@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>,<53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <0A4C9E4F-88A3-4DC4-875E-A8B97181D11F@it.ox.ac.uk> <539427BB.7070508@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 8 Jun 2014, at 10:07, Lou Burnard wrote: >> Are you saying that the presence of allowText generates an implicit alternate? > > krekt > >> As it stands, I would suggest what you have above is contradictory and impossible to satisfy > > once you allow text, a sequence child would be invalid and an alternate would be redundant (if we stick in the world of xml). trouble is, you can only satisfy that model in XML by generating an implicit alternate; but if we went beyond XML, it appears to mean "a, text, b, text, c, text?, i.e. the default if there is no wrapper is a sequence. I am not sure we should even allow multiple elementRef as direct child of content, because its ambiguous. if you remove @allowText, do you agree its a sequence? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 05:46:43 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 09:46:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <4ADD1A38-C44A-4AA5-94BC-D91E897A3602@it.ox.ac.uk> On 7 Jun 2014, at 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: > > I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what tei:p is? > yes, thats fine. its, in that case, much simpler than you thought > > I don't want them in a fixed order. I said @preserveOrder="false" -- isn't that what @preserveOrder is for? > a) @preserveOrder is only allowed on , so your ODD is invalid anyway :-} b) @preserveOrder is ignored in all current processing c) Lou: whats the difference between , and ? i dont think preserveOrder makes much sense -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 07:30:05 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:30:05 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53944800.7060907@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53944800.7060907@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5394493D.7060503@retired.ox.ac.uk> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:24:48 +0100 From: Lou Burnard To: Sebastian Rahtz On 08/06/14 10:46, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > a) @preserveOrder is only allowed on , so your ODD is invalid anyway :-} > b) @preserveOrder is ignored in all current processing > c) Lou: whats the difference between , and ? i dont think preserveOrder makes much sense > > is like SGML ampersand connector. Quite different from From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 07:31:33 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:31:33 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: Re: Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539447B4.7080503@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <539447B4.7080503@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53944995.4090802@retired.ox.ac.uk> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 12:23:32 +0100 From: Lou Burnard To: Sebastian Rahtz On 08/06/14 10:40, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 8 Jun 2014, at 10:07, Lou Burnard wrote: > >>> Are you saying that the presence of allowText generates an implicit alternate? >> krekt >> >>> As it stands, I would suggest what you have above is contradictory and impossible to satisfy >> once you allow text, a sequence child would be invalid and an alternate would be redundant (if we stick in the world of xml). > trouble is, you can only satisfy that model in XML by generating an implicit alternate; but if we went beyond > XML, it appears to mean "a, text, b, text, c, text?, i.e. the default if there is no wrapper is a sequence. > I am not sure we should even allow multiple elementRef as direct child of content, because its ambiguous. It's only ambiguous if you think a sequence of s directly within is valid. > > if you remove @allowText, do you agree its a sequence? > -- No, I think it's an error. A sequence has to be explicitly marked, using, duh, From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 08:53:49 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 13:53:49 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] allowText contd Message-ID: <53945CDD.5010106@retired.ox.ac.uk> On the assumption that everyone is interested in pureODD, I continue with some more observations on the impact of allowing text : is the natural way of saying in pure ODD that you want any number of model.foo elements gt 1 Now suppose however that you want to allow text children as well. You might think that would do it. But no. In fact this generates exactly the same RNG as the previous one. What you need is: Which does produce the correct content model (text | model.foo)* Read and discuss. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 09:32:48 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 06:32:48 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <82C68112-9923-46A0-8A2F-5D66BD3B6610@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca>, <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca> <58D7EF6A-AAB5-4994-B622-D475DA2B8A4C@it.ox.ac.uk>, <53939353.8020001@uvic.ca> <82C68112-9923-46A0-8A2F-5D66BD3B6610@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53946600.5040402@uvic.ca> I have the add-on installed and fully updated. On 14-06-08 12:13 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > > Carved in stone on my iPad > >> On 7 Jun 2014, at 23:34, "Martin Holmes" wrote: >> >> I'm using what's current in Oxygen 16, which I just installed, so 2.6.5 of the add-on. I > > If it's off the shelf oxy, it will not be good enough, I suspect I would subscribe to the TEI Framework > > Sebastian > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 09:36:16 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 06:36:16 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> On 14-06-08 12:17 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > > Carved in stone on my iPad > >> On 8 Jun 2014, at 00:10, "Lou Burnard" >> wrote: >> >> My mistake. You want >> >> >> >> > key="trait"/> >> >> >> @allowText has a lot of side effects... > > Are you saying that the presence of allowText generates an implicit > alternate? As it stands, I would suggest what you have above is > contradictory and impossible to satisfy I'm quite confused now. What I like about PureODD is that (I thought) it was relatively transparent and comprehensible. If this: is different from this: and (especially) if the latter is somehow impossible, then we need to revisit it and ultimately document it in much more detail. Cheers, Martin > > Sebastian > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 09:53:24 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 14:53:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 08/06/14 14:36, Martin Holmes wrote: > I'm quite confused now. What I like about PureODD is that (I thought) > it was relatively transparent and comprehensible. It is. Just not quite the way you expected. Trust me. > If this: allowText="true"> minOccurs="0"/> minOccurs="0"/> minOccurs="0"/> minOccurs="0"/> minOccurs="0"/> is different from this: > > key="choice" /> > and (especially) if the latter is somehow > impossible, then we need to revisit it and ultimately document it in > much more detail. The latter is correct, and does what you'd expect. The former is not correct and should generate warnings/errors, but our current implementation scorns such things. Let me try to summarise the rules as I see them this afternoon: 1. The content of can be -- nothing (the element is empty) -- a single elementRef or macroRef or classRef (the content is a single element, a pattern, or a class reference) -- a sequence or alternation of the foregoing in which case or must be used to group them (and supply occurence indicators if required) 2. The content of (aka ) can be -- nothing (the element has text content) -- one or more elementRefs or macroRefs or classRefs (the specified content is alternated with text 0:n times ) -- if sequence or alternation are specified, it is an error since we are only supporting XML at present, and it would therefore make no sense to allow them -- likewise for occurrence indicators 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 10:03:03 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:03:03 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <4ADD1A38-C44A-4AA5-94BC-D91E897A3602@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <4ADD1A38-C44A-4AA5-94BC-D91E897A3602@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53946D17.7080803@uvic.ca> On 14-06-08 02:46 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 7 Jun 2014, at 22:33, Martin Holmes wrote: >> >> I must have explained it wrong. It's a mixed-content element with any of a set of subelements and/or text in between them. Surely that's what tei:p is? >> > yes, thats fine. its, in that case, much simpler than you thought > >> >> I don't want them in a fixed order. I said @preserveOrder="false" -- isn't that what @preserveOrder is for? >> > > a) @preserveOrder is only allowed on , so your ODD is invalid anyway :-} I had it on : > b) @preserveOrder is ignored in all current processing That would be a problem. > c) Lou: whats the difference between , and ? i dont think preserveOrder makes much sense It seemed to make good sense to me; I liked it. But if it's confusing, then we need to supplement and with something else which is neither of those things -- maybe or ? Cheers, Martin > > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 10:16:50 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:16:50 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53947052.9060206@uvic.ca> @allowText is defined in att.repeatable and also in content.xml. and are both members of att.repeatable. That is the source of my confusion; you say it should only be defined on : > 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its > presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) So we could fix that and see where we're at. Cheers, Martin On 14-06-08 06:53 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > On 08/06/14 14:36, Martin Holmes wrote: >> I'm quite confused now. What I like about PureODD is that (I thought) >> it was relatively transparent and comprehensible. > > It is. Just not quite the way you expected. Trust me. > >> If this: > allowText="true"> > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> > minOccurs="0"/> is different from this: >> >> > key="choice" /> >> and (especially) if the latter is somehow >> impossible, then we need to revisit it and ultimately document it in >> much more detail. > > The latter is correct, and does what you'd expect. The former is not > correct and should generate warnings/errors, but our current > implementation scorns such things. > > Let me try to summarise the rules as I see them this afternoon: > > 1. The content of can be > > -- nothing (the element is empty) > > -- a single elementRef or macroRef or classRef (the content is a single > element, a pattern, or a class reference) > > -- a sequence or alternation of the foregoing in which case > or must be used to group them (and supply occurence > indicators if required) > > 2. The content of (aka ) can be > > -- nothing (the element has text content) > > -- one or more elementRefs or macroRefs or classRefs (the specified > content is alternated with text 0:n times ) > > -- if sequence or alternation are specified, it is an error since we are > only supporting XML at present, and it would therefore make no sense to > allow them > > -- likewise for occurrence indicators > > 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its > presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) > > > > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 13:30:34 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 17:30:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText contd In-Reply-To: <53945CDD.5010106@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53945CDD.5010106@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: there are four variables in this conversation: 1. what you are allowed to do in XML 2. what is implemented by the current XSL for the Pure ODD constructs 3. what the Pure ODD constructs are supposed to do in theory 4. what they are documented and implemented in their schema as doing so I suspect I am not alone in being fairly confused. Just because @allowText doesn?t make sense in contexts where you are generating XML schemas doesn?t mean it is wrong. if I understand aright, this: (text | a | b | c)+ | ( d | e | f)* is maybe not possible to express in XML, but is a perfectly reasonable request. So whether its useable now or not, Pure ODD should express it. So @allowText on _does_ make sense. Obviously the most important variable is 3. above. We should first sort that out without reference to XML constructs, and only worry about 1. and 2., i.e. what actually can work now. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 15:04:58 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:04:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <41ff0fe2-98af-4cc4-8e69-5323ee1bb934@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I dont think I quite agree with Lou?s interpretation. > Let me try to summarise the rules as I see them this afternoon: > > 1. The content of can be > > -- nothing (the element is empty) > OK > -- a single elementRef or macroRef or classRef (the content is a single > element, a pattern, or a class reference) > OK > -- a sequence or alternation of the foregoing in which case > or must be used to group them (and supply occurence > indicators if required) > OK > 2. The content of (aka ) can be > I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. > -- nothing (the element has text content) > > -- one or more elementRefs or macroRefs or classRefs (the specified > content is alternated with text 0:n times ) > > -- if sequence or alternation are specified, it is an error since we are > only supporting XML at present, and it would therefore make no sense to > allow them i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation > > 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its > presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) disagree, for futre proofing. we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 16:06:53 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 20:06:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText contd In-Reply-To: <53945CDD.5010106@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53945CDD.5010106@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <68b9871d-8a67-4be9-8d13-6640f0bc9d67@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 8 Jun 2014, at 13:53, Lou Burnard wrote: > Now suppose however that you want to allow text children as well. You > might think that > > > > > > would do it. But no. In fact this generates exactly the same RNG as the > previous one. What you need is: > > > > > > Which does produce the correct content model > > (text | model.foo)* i think you?re just finding a bug in the processing, right? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 17:10:52 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2014 22:10:52 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 08/06/14 20:04, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I dont think I quite agree with Lou?s interpretation. > > ... > I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. We could go back to having a different element () then? with a different content model/semantics? >> -- nothing (the element has text content) >> >> -- one or more elementRefs or macroRefs or classRefs (the specified >> content is alternated with text 0:n times ) >> >> -- if sequence or alternation are specified, it is an error since we are >> only supporting XML at present, and it would therefore make no sense to >> allow them > i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you > desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML > schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation So sometimes my generates a sequence, and sometimes it generates an alternation? I thought you didn't like ambiguity? >> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) > disagree, for futre proofing. I hear what you're saying. But we don't want a dozen ways of doing the same thing. > > we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD > hear hear From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 17:18:31 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 21:18:31 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 8 Jun 2014, at 22:10, Lou Burnard wrote: >> I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. > > We could go back to having a different element () then? with a different content model/semantics? i dont see a need >> i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you >> desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML >> schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation > > So sometimes my generates a sequence, and sometimes it generates an alternation? I thought you didn't like ambiguity? > no, your always means sequence; but if you generate an XML schema, that will only reflect the alternation. in due course, we add Schematron to enforce the sequencing. Not the same thing as ambiguity > >>> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >>> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) >> disagree, for futre proofing. > > I hear what you're saying. But we don't want a dozen ways of doing the same thing. true as a principle, of course, but I dont see the relevance here. >> we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD >> > hear hear good, we agree on that at least -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 21:30:33 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 18:30:33 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <41ff0fe2-98af-4cc4-8e69-5323ee1bb934@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <41ff0fe2-98af-4cc4-8e69-5323ee1bb934@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53950E39.3090705@uvic.ca> > we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD +1 from me. I don't see why Schematron couldn't, for instance, enforce a mixed-content model in which the child elements are in a specific order, or in which elements are in alternation. Cheers, Martin On 14-06-08 12:04 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I dont think I quite agree with Lou?s interpretation. > >> Let me try to summarise the rules as I see them this afternoon: >> >> 1. The content of can be >> >> -- nothing (the element is empty) >> > OK > >> -- a single elementRef or macroRef or classRef (the content is a single >> element, a pattern, or a class reference) >> > OK > >> -- a sequence or alternation of the foregoing in which case >> or must be used to group them (and supply occurence >> indicators if required) >> > OK > >> 2. The content of (aka ) can be >> > I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. > >> -- nothing (the element has text content) >> >> -- one or more elementRefs or macroRefs or classRefs (the specified >> content is alternated with text 0:n times ) >> >> -- if sequence or alternation are specified, it is an error since we are >> only supporting XML at present, and it would therefore make no sense to >> allow them > > i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you > desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML > schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation >> >> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) > > disagree, for futre proofing. > > we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 8 22:39:19 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 19:39:19 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca> How would I do this in PureODD? I'd like the content model of to be any of: persName (exactly one) affiliation (optional) birth (optional) death (optional) residence (at least one) occupation (optional) affiliation (optional) pb (optional) cb (optional) milestone (optional) in any order. No text content. I would have guessed this: but that gets me: which disallows if it occurs before persName. Cheers, Martin On 14-06-08 02:18 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 8 Jun 2014, at 22:10, Lou Burnard wrote: > >>> I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. >> >> We could go back to having a different element () then? with a different content model/semantics? > i dont see a need > >>> i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you >>> desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML >>> schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation >> >> So sometimes my generates a sequence, and sometimes it generates an alternation? I thought you didn't like ambiguity? >> > > no, your always means sequence; but if you generate an XML schema, that will only > reflect the alternation. in due course, we add Schematron to enforce the sequencing. Not the same > thing as ambiguity > >> >>>> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >>>> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) >>> disagree, for futre proofing. >> >> I hear what you're saying. But we don't want a dozen ways of doing the same thing. > > true as a principle, of course, but I dont see the relevance here. > >>> we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD >>> >> hear hear > > good, we agree on that at least > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 03:07:47 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 07:07:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> , <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <1D26CCA4-2EC2-4160-ABA5-36B07B3ED1E9@it.ox.ac.uk> Like I said, @preserverOrder isn't implemented. I believe we can't express your rule in relaxng, So it needs aforementioned schematron rules. You are secretly yearning for SGML.... Carved in stone on my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 03:39, "Martin Holmes" wrote: > > How would I do this in PureODD? > > I'd like the content model of to be any of: > > persName (exactly one) > affiliation (optional) > birth (optional) > death (optional) > residence (at least one) > occupation (optional) > affiliation (optional) > pb (optional) > cb (optional) > milestone (optional) > > in any order. No text content. I would have guessed this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but that gets me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which disallows if it occurs before persName. > > Cheers, > Martin > >> On 14-06-08 02:18 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 8 Jun 2014, at 22:10, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>>> I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. >>> >>> We could go back to having a different element () then? with a different content model/semantics? >> i dont see a need >> >>>> i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you >>>> desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML >>>> schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation >>> >>> So sometimes my generates a sequence, and sometimes it generates an alternation? I thought you didn't like ambiguity? >> >> no, your always means sequence; but if you generate an XML schema, that will only >> reflect the alternation. in due course, we add Schematron to enforce the sequencing. Not the same >> thing as ambiguity >> >>> >>>>> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >>>>> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) >>>> disagree, for futre proofing. >>> >>> I hear what you're saying. But we don't want a dozen ways of doing the same thing. >> >> true as a principle, of course, but I dont see the relevance here. >> >>>> we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD >>> hear hear >> >> good, we agree on that at least >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 04:34:46 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 08:34:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <1D26CCA4-2EC2-4160-ABA5-36B07B3ED1E9@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> , <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca>, <1D26CCA4-2EC2-4160-ABA5-36B07B3ED1E9@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Wouldnt you express this in rng using interleave? Sent from Samsung Mobile -------- Original message -------- From: Sebastian Rahtz Date: 09/06/2014 8:07 AM (GMT+00:00) To: Martin Holmes Cc: tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU Subject: Re: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? Like I said, @preserverOrder isn't implemented. I believe we can't express your rule in relaxng, So it needs aforementioned schematron rules. You are secretly yearning for SGML.... Carved in stone on my iPad > On 9 Jun 2014, at 03:39, "Martin Holmes" wrote: > > How would I do this in PureODD? > > I'd like the content model of to be any of: > > persName (exactly one) > affiliation (optional) > birth (optional) > death (optional) > residence (at least one) > occupation (optional) > affiliation (optional) > pb (optional) > cb (optional) > milestone (optional) > > in any order. No text content. I would have guessed this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but that gets me: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which disallows if it occurs before persName. > > Cheers, > Martin > >> On 14-06-08 02:18 PM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> On 8 Jun 2014, at 22:10, Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>>> I dont think the content model should be different depending on the existence of @allowText. >>> >>> We could go back to having a different element () then? with a different content model/semantics? >> i dont see a need >> >>>> i would turn this around, and say that you continue to use sequence or alternate as you >>>> desire, but that only alternate + @allowText makes sense if you?re generating XML >>>> schemas, so a would be rewritten as an alternate at the moment in this situation >>> >>> So sometimes my generates a sequence, and sometimes it generates an alternation? I thought you didn't like ambiguity? >> >> no, your always means sequence; but if you generate an XML schema, that will only >> reflect the alternation. in due course, we add Schematron to enforce the sequencing. Not the same >> thing as ambiguity >> >>> >>>>> 3. @allowText is not supported on anything other than (its >>>>> presence elsewhere is is a corrigible error in the current spec) >>>> disagree, for futre proofing. >>> >>> I hear what you're saying. But we don't want a dozen ways of doing the same thing. >> >> true as a principle, of course, but I dont see the relevance here. >> >>>> we need Schematron rules which enforce XML, not a weakening of Pure ODD >>> hear hear >> >> good, we agree on that at least >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Director (Research) of Academic IT >> University of Oxford IT Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> N?o sou nada. >> Nunca serei nada. >> N?o posso querer ser nada. >> ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 06:15:58 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 10:15:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <5nudq5ymqhrn760nbr72mc8x.1402302778725@email.android.com> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> , <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca>, <1D26CCA4-2EC2-4160-ABA5-36B07B3ED1E9@it.ox.ac.uk> <5nudq5ymqhrn760nbr72mc8x.1402302778725@email.android.com> Message-ID: <3ff54a4c-4392-44f2-9563-dc4fea8edc33@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2014, at 09:34, Lou Burnard wrote: > Wouldnt you express this in rng using interleave? yes, you may well be right. I suspect that won?t then translate into XSD, though. One of the aims of Pure ODD would be to develop a direct ODD to XSD converter, so each of the three routes (DTD, RNG, XSD) would do the best it could. there?s a fair amount of implementation work to do here. needs more hands on deck, I am afraid. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 07:21:27 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 12:21:27 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] allowText Message-ID: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> Sorry to bang on about this, but we need to resolve the issue. I want to express in pure ODD the content model (text | a | b)* I can imagine 3 ways this might be done in pure ODD (a) (b) (c) Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second generates (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates just (a | b) So which of these should be reported as a bug? Personally, I stand by my view that (a) is the right way to express the required content model. It is not ambiguous unless you think that multiple ungrouped elementRefs implies a sequence. But if that were true, why did we invent the sequence container? p.s. I haven't included occurrence indicators above; if you do they are always ignored anyway. In the fullness of time they should generate an additional schematron constraint perhaps. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 07:43:49 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 11:43:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <7c6444a7-cba1-4a9b-bf67-dcc621c1fb1d@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2014, at 12:21, Lou Burnard wrote: > Sorry to bang on about this, but we need to resolve the issue. > > I want to express in pure ODD the content model (text | a | b)* > > I can imagine 3 ways this might be done in pure ODD > > (a) > > > > > (b) > > > > > > > (c) > > > > > i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? > > Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second > generates > (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates > just (a | b) > behaviour of c) is a bug. a) is tricky - the current output is not ideal, but is an LCD > Personally, I stand by my view that (a) is the right way to express the > required content model. It is not ambiguous unless you think that > multiple ungrouped elementRefs implies a sequence. But if that were > true, why did we invent the sequence container? to group them together in alternates? > p.s. I haven't included occurrence indicators above; if you do they are > always ignored anyway. In the fullness of time they should generate an > additional schematron constraint perhaps. some of them work? -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jun 9 08:16:56 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 05:16:56 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Wot is wrong with my ODD? In-Reply-To: <3ff54a4c-4392-44f2-9563-dc4fea8edc33@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53923030.7020902@uvic.ca> <53938529.4010500@uvic.ca> <53938612.4090502@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53938672.3060002@uvic.ca> <539387C6.1030201@uvic.ca>, <53939BEA.1010902@retired.ox.ac.uk> <9ea86fd6-743c-47a7-8b3f-11f110d270e7@HUB04.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <539466D0.3040908@uvic.ca> <53946AD4.2040700@retired.ox.ac.uk> <23D5AF08-B025-491C-80DF-E113AD4CB147@it.ox.ac.uk> <5394D15C.8020708@retired.ox.ac.uk> , <53951E57.9040405@uvic.ca>, <1D26CCA4-2EC2-4160-ABA5-36B07B3ED1E9@it.ox.ac.uk> <5nudq5ymqhrn760nbr72mc8x.1402302778725@email.android.com> <3ff54a4c-4392-44f2-9563-dc4fea8edc33@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5395A5B8.8020307@uvic.ca> On 14-06-09 03:15 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 9 Jun 2014, at 09:34, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> Wouldnt you express this in rng using interleave? > > yes, you may well be right. I suspect that won?t then translate into > XSD, though. One of the aims of Pure ODD would be to develop > a direct ODD to XSD converter, so each of the three routes (DTD, RNG, XSD) > would do the best it could. I'll try using interleave in my ODD then. I don't use XSD anyway. > there?s a fair amount of implementation work to do here. needs > more hands on deck, I am afraid. I think we need a little working group for PureODD. Cheers, Martin > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 08:17:06 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 13:17:06 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <05EFD4FA-6A42-4385-8380-5D64479003CD@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <05EFD4FA-6A42-4385-8380-5D64479003CD@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5395A5C2.7050208@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 09/06/14 12:43, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 9 Jun 2014, at 12:21, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> Sorry to bang on about this, but we need to resolve the issue. >> >> I want to express in pure ODD the content model (text | a | b)* >> >> I can imagine 3 ways this might be done in pure ODD >> >> (a) >> >> >> >> >> (b) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> (c) >> >> >> >> >> > i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. > i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? That's because you don't consider the full implications of @allowText. > >> Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second >> generates >> (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates >> just (a | b) >> > behaviour of c) is a bug. a) is tricky - the current output is not ideal, > but is an LCD Eh? What does the display device have to do with it? However, if we agree that (c) and (b) are bugs, we are definitely making progress. > > >> Personally, I stand by my view that (a) is the right way to express the >> required content model. It is not ambiguous unless you think that >> multiple ungrouped elementRefs implies a sequence. But if that were >> true, why did we invent the sequence container? > to group them together in alternates? you mean to alternate sequences? yes, but do we really want two different ways of indicating a non-alternated sequences ? and both generate the same rng, though as previously noted there is a bug causing the former to generate invalid DTD > >> p.s. I haven't included occurrence indicators above; if you do they are >> always ignored anyway. In the fullness of time they should generate an >> additional schematron constraint perhaps. > some of them work? small earthquake. not many dead. From mholmes at uvic.ca Mon Jun 9 08:25:58 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 05:25:58 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <7c6444a7-cba1-4a9b-bf67-dcc621c1fb1d@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <7c6444a7-cba1-4a9b-bf67-dcc621c1fb1d@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5395A7D6.40908@uvic.ca> On 14-06-09 04:43 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > On 9 Jun 2014, at 12:21, Lou Burnard wrote: > >> Sorry to bang on about this, but we need to resolve the issue. >> >> I want to express in pure ODD the content model (text | a | b)* >> >> I can imagine 3 ways this might be done in pure ODD >> >> (a) >> >> >> >> >> (b) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> (c) >> >> >> >> >> > > i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. > i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? What does it seem to you to mean? Of should it just be wrong to have elementRefs directly in a ? >> Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second >> generates >> (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates >> just (a | b) >> > behaviour of c) is a bug. a) is tricky - the current output is not ideal, > but is an LCD I've been confused about the meaning of , which seemed to me to mean "a or b but not both". The remark on the example in the Glines suggests this too: [quote] Show all This example content model permits either a name or a persName. [/quote] I was looking for a grab-bag element -- , or something like that. also confused me a bit; it seems to mean what it says until you notice the @preserveOrder, which if false completely undermines its semantics. >> Personally, I stand by my view that (a) is the right way to express the >> required content model. It is not ambiguous unless you think that >> multiple ungrouped elementRefs implies a sequence. But if that were >> true, why did we invent the sequence container? > to group them together in alternates? > >> p.s. I haven't included occurrence indicators above; if you do they are >> always ignored anyway. In the fullness of time they should generate an >> additional schematron constraint perhaps. > > some of them work? They're important; I find myself wanting to use them everywhere. Cheers, Martin > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Director (Research) of Academic IT > University of Oxford IT Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > N?o sou nada. > Nunca serei nada. > N?o posso querer ser nada. > ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 11:54:21 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:54:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <5395A7D6.40908@uvic.ca> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <7c6444a7-cba1-4a9b-bf67-dcc621c1fb1d@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <5395A7D6.40908@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <51FD84A7-A4D9-4A01-8766-6915873A015C@it.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2014, at 13:25, Martin Holmes wrote: >>> >> >> i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. >> i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? I think elementRef elementRef means that these two things occur in that order > > What does it seem to you to mean? Of should it just be wrong to have > elementRefs directly in a ? > no, if there is a single flat list with no group, I am happy that they just sit there as children of content > I've been confused about the meaning of , which seemed to me > to mean "a or b but not both?. yes, it does. you need occurrence info to get both a and b > > I was looking for a grab-bag element -- , or something like that. it does mean anyOf. By default, just the once, though. > also confused me a bit; it seems to mean what it says until > you notice the @preserveOrder, which if false completely undermines its > semantics. a b c means you must have a, b and c, in that order. a b c means that you must have a, b and c, but the order doesn?t matter -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 11:58:28 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:58:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <5395A5C2.7050208@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <05EFD4FA-6A42-4385-8380-5D64479003CD@it.ox.ac.uk> <5395A5C2.7050208@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <40305a15-cd6c-4dd8-8869-9a90ff5932fb@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 9 Jun 2014, at 13:17, Lou Burnard wrote: >> i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. >> i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? > > That's because you don't consider the full implications of @allowText. I?d claim back that you?re limiting yourself to XML rules, which we don?t need to. >> >>> Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second >>> generates >>> (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates >>> just (a | b) >>> >> behaviour of c) is a bug. a) is tricky - the current output is not ideal, >> but is an LCD > > Eh? What does the display device have to do with it? lowest common denominator > ... > you mean to alternate sequences? yes, but do we really want two different ways of indicating a non-alternated sequences ? > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > both generate the same rng I can live with that. the is just putting in extra (), as one often does unnecessarily. why people think occurrence constraints are ignored baffles me, there is plenty of code supporting them?. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 12:42:30 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2014 17:42:30 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <05EFD4FA-6A42-4385-8380-5D64479003CD@it.ox.ac.uk> <5395A5C2.7050208@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5395E3F6.5050207@retired.ox.ac.uk> On 09/06/14 16:58, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On 9 Jun 2014, at 13:17, Lou Burnard wrote: > >>> i would go with the most explicit (c) every time, as most extensible/sustainable. >>> i don?t read a) as meaning "(text | a | b)*? >> That's because you don't consider the full implications of @allowText. > I?d claim back that you?re limiting yourself to XML rules, which we don?t need to. Interesting debate (not for now) -- what non-XML features would we actually like to build into pure ODD ? The world is not exactly clamouring for mixed content models with text in funny places, so far as I can tell. How might we say in pure ODD that one element can overlap another? >>>> Of these only the first currently generates (text | a | b)* The second >>>> generates >>>> (text | (text | bit | bob))* which is gibberish; the third generates >>>> just (a | b) >>>> >>> behaviour of c) is a bug. a) is tricky - the current output is not ideal, >>> but is an LCD >> Eh? What does the display device have to do with it? > lowest common denominator alas, i am NTW (none the wiser) I am curious about this, cos you must have understood case (a) in the same way as I do once. Else why did you implement it that way? From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 14:04:08 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 18:04:08 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] allowText In-Reply-To: <5395E3F6.5050207@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <539598B7.6060909@retired.ox.ac.uk> <05EFD4FA-6A42-4385-8380-5D64479003CD@it.ox.ac.uk> <5395A5C2.7050208@retired.ox.ac.uk> <5395E3F6.5050207@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On 9 Jun 2014, at 17:42, Lou Burnard wrote: > Interesting debate (not for now) -- what non-XML features would we actually like to build into pure ODD ? The world is not exactly clamouring for mixed content models with text in funny places, so far as I can tell. the world?s not clamouring for XML at all, and certainly not clamouring for schema validation, so we?re kind of niche. but people are weird. if they want to say "a? space b?? who are we to stop them. > How might we say in pure ODD that one element can overlap another? > well now, thats a good question. if only i had enough space in the margin?.. > I am curious about this, cos you must have understood case (a) in the same way as I do once. Else why did you implement it that way? mysterious are my ways. but yes, I recognise that the output generated is the least worst way of saying _something_ from the notation, but that doesn?t mean I think its right. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From philomousos at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:01:18 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:01:18 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup Message-ID: Hi All, There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot October 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and one as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon on Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to revisit that decision? Hugh From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Tue Jun 10 16:47:39 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:47:39 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on the 5th. On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Hi All, > > There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so > it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot October > 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and one > as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon on > Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The > slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to > revisit that decision? > > Hugh From philomousos at gmail.com Wed Jun 11 07:55:43 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:55:43 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: You were one of the three who said they couldn't make it then, so that leaves two :-) On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Lou Burnard wrote: > The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 > nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm > the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on > the 5th. > > > On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: > > Hi All, > > > > There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so > > it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot > October > > 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and > one > > as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon > on > > Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The > > slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to > > revisit that decision? > > > > Hugh > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Tue Jun 17 13:42:22 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 19:42:22 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi All, I can retract my unavailability for Oct. 29-31 if there is the chance to make just one transoceanic flight. And above all because of the chance to be in a US University Campus during Halloween night: damn, this is really part of my imaginary, probably I will go out hoping to meet Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger :-). I gave a look at doodle, and now the decision is up to Elly (disposable only if necessary) and principally to James, our Chair, since he stated he could not in those days. Fabio 2014-06-11 13:55 GMT+02:00 Hugh Cayless : > You were one of the three who said they couldn't make it then, so that > leaves two :-) > > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Lou Burnard > wrote: > >> The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 >> nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm >> the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on >> the 5th. >> >> >> On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> > Hi All, >> > >> > There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so >> > it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot >> October >> > 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and >> one >> > as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon >> on >> > Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The >> > slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to >> > revisit that decision? >> > >> > Hugh >> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Wed Jun 18 07:05:54 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:05:54 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> Sorry, I've got a solid, booked, and paid-for previous commitment mon/tues/weds that week back here in the UK. -James On 17/06/14 18:42, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > Hi All, I can retract my unavailability for Oct. 29-31 if there is the > chance to make just one transoceanic flight. And above all because of > the chance to be in a US University Campus during Halloween night: > damn, this is really part of my imaginary, probably I will go out > hoping to meet Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger :-). > I gave a look at doodle, and now the decision is up to Elly > (disposable only if necessary) and principally to James, our Chair, > since he stated he could not in those days. > > Fabio > > 2014-06-11 13:55 GMT+02:00 Hugh Cayless : >> You were one of the three who said they couldn't make it then, so that >> leaves two :-) >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Lou Burnard >> wrote: >> >>> The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 >>> nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm >>> the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on >>> the 5th. >>> >>> >>> On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so >>>> it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot >>> October >>>> 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and >>> one >>>> as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon >>> on >>>> Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The >>>> slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to >>>> revisit that decision? >>>> >>>> Hugh >>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stadler at edirom.de Fri Jun 20 09:07:54 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:07:54 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de> Ok, so that?s ruled out. The only other possible date I can see is October 15-17, but there is a ?no? from Elli. If that?s still a ?no? I think we have to stick with Nov. 5-7 finally?! Best Peter Am 18.06.2014 um 13:05 schrieb James Cummings : > > Sorry, I've got a solid, booked, and paid-for previous commitment > mon/tues/weds that week back here in the UK. > > -James > > > On 17/06/14 18:42, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> Hi All, I can retract my unavailability for Oct. 29-31 if there is the >> chance to make just one transoceanic flight. And above all because of >> the chance to be in a US University Campus during Halloween night: >> damn, this is really part of my imaginary, probably I will go out >> hoping to meet Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger :-). >> I gave a look at doodle, and now the decision is up to Elly >> (disposable only if necessary) and principally to James, our Chair, >> since he stated he could not in those days. >> >> Fabio >> >> 2014-06-11 13:55 GMT+02:00 Hugh Cayless : >>> You were one of the three who said they couldn't make it then, so that >>> leaves two :-) >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Lou Burnard >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 >>>> nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm >>>> the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on >>>> the 5th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so >>>>> it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot >>>> October >>>>> 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and >>>> one >>>>> as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon >>>> on >>>>> Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The >>>>> slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to >>>>> revisit that decision? >>>>> >>>>> Hugh >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140620/5a23470e/attachment.bin From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 09:24:45 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:24:45 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de> Message-ID: <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> I've been thinking about this and wondering if I I'm being too selfish here. Although I can't physically be there I could attend some of the mornings by skype. (I'm away on holiday and definitely busy from about 6pm UK time every evening). If someone wanted to stand in for the Council Chair (potentially as training for next year when I think someone else should take it over), then that would be fine. Speaking of which I entirely forgot to put up the minutes of our last teleconference. I'll do so today. -James On 20/06/14 14:07, Peter Stadler wrote: > Ok, so that?s ruled out. The only other possible date I can see is October 15-17, but there is a ?no? from Elli. If that?s still a ?no? I think we have to stick with Nov. 5-7 finally?! > > Best > Peter > > Am 18.06.2014 um 13:05 schrieb James Cummings : > >> >> Sorry, I've got a solid, booked, and paid-for previous commitment >> mon/tues/weds that week back here in the UK. >> >> -James >> >> >> On 17/06/14 18:42, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >>> Hi All, I can retract my unavailability for Oct. 29-31 if there is the >>> chance to make just one transoceanic flight. And above all because of >>> the chance to be in a US University Campus during Halloween night: >>> damn, this is really part of my imaginary, probably I will go out >>> hoping to meet Michael Myers or Freddy Krueger :-). >>> I gave a look at doodle, and now the decision is up to Elly >>> (disposable only if necessary) and principally to James, our Chair, >>> since he stated he could not in those days. >>> >>> Fabio >>> >>> 2014-06-11 13:55 GMT+02:00 Hugh Cayless : >>>> You were one of the three who said they couldn't make it then, so that >>>> leaves two :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Lou Burnard >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The 29th to 31st oct would certainly suit me a lot better than the 5-7 >>>>> nov, as I will probably be in Chicago till the 26th anyway. But if I'm >>>>> the only one who feels that way I'll shut up, and join you by skype on >>>>> the 5th. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/06/14 16:01, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>> >>>>>> There was some question of whether the F2F could be moved back a week, so >>>>>> it followed on right after the Annual Meeting. We had open the slot >>>>> October >>>>>> 29-31, the following week, but three of us marked it as impossible and >>>>> one >>>>>> as iffy. That's the latter part of the week. I'll be running a marathon >>>>> on >>>>>> Sunday the 26th, so I really can't manage the beginning of the week. The >>>>>> slot we picked was the earliest one everybody agreed on. Do we want to >>>>>> revisit that decision? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hugh >>>>> > > > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 09:39:19 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:39:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de>, <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I do think any of us are essential, but it would electing a vice-chair immediately, I think. We wouldn't want to into this with no one ready to run the meeting... Carved in stone on my iPad > On 20 Jun 2014, at 14:24, "James Cummings" wrote: > > > I've been thinking about this and wondering if I I'm being too > selfish here. Although I can't physically be there I could attend > some of the mornings by skype. (I'm away on holiday and > definitely busy from about 6pm UK time every evening). From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 09:40:51 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:40:51 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <9E159A68-ABEC-4357-A328-5BA66C482A71@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de>, <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> <9E159A68-ABEC-4357-A328-5BA66C482A71@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53A439E3.1000505@it.ox.ac.uk> Maybe it is something we could discuss at the Oxford face to face (in a couple weeks!) -James On 20/06/14 14:39, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I do think any of us are essential, but it would electing a vice-chair immediately, I think. We wouldn't want to into this with no one ready to run the meeting... > > Carved in stone on my iPad > >> On 20 Jun 2014, at 14:24, "James Cummings" wrote: >> >> >> I've been thinking about this and wondering if I I'm being too >> selfish here. Although I can't physically be there I could attend >> some of the mornings by skype. (I'm away on holiday and >> definitely busy from about 6pm UK time every evening). -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 09:40:51 2014 From: lou.burnard at retired.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:40:51 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de>, <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53A439E3.90305@retired.ox.ac.uk> Should we club together to buy Sebastian a new chisel? This message seems to be an exercise in filling the gaps... On 20/06/14 14:39, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I do think any of us are essential, but it would electing a vice-chair immediately, I think. We wouldn't want to into this with no one ready to run the meeting... > > Carved in stone on my iPad > >> On 20 Jun 2014, at 14:24, "James Cummings" wrote: >> >> >> I've been thinking about this and wondering if I I'm being too >> selfish here. Although I can't physically be there I could attend >> some of the mornings by skype. (I'm away on holiday and >> definitely busy from about 6pm UK time every evening). From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Fri Jun 20 09:41:55 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:41:55 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <53A439E3.90305@retired.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de>, <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>, <53A439E3.90305@retired.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <11ceb700-3aca-4bc6-a6c1-22a9014c6c77@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Yeah, sorry. Don't not do. S From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Fri Jun 20 10:34:44 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:34:44 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: <11ceb700-3aca-4bc6-a6c1-22a9014c6c77@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de> <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53A439E3.90305@retired.ox.ac.uk> <11ceb700-3aca-4bc6-a6c1-22a9014c6c77@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Weighing in late - I can do the last weekend in October. The week of the 15th is very bad, as we have a workshop running that Friday and Saturday, people coming in on Thursday and no doubt insanity ahead of time. --elli On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Sebastian Rahtz < sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk> wrote: > Yeah, sorry. Don't not do. > > S > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Jun 20 11:13:24 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:13:24 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] Fall F2F scheduling followup In-Reply-To: References: <53976EEB.3090408@retired.ox.ac.uk> <53A17292.9020509@it.ox.ac.uk> <01CBC0F7-4B33-4EBA-BC7C-C71EF11816AB@edirom.de> <53A4361D.4010303@it.ox.ac.uk> <01655257-5a2c-4eea-a3bb-06de65388ee3@HUB02.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> <53A439E3.90305@retired.ox.ac.uk> <11ceb700-3aca-4bc6-a6c1-22a9014c6c77@HUB05.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I think as James says, let's talk it over and plan to nail it down at the F2F in Oxford. It will be a good thing to get things like meeting room reservations nailed down soon, when there's not much competition, but it can easily wait a couple of weeks and we can probably resolve the issue quickly in person. Hugh On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Mylonas, Elli wrote: > Weighing in late - > > I can do the last weekend in October. > The week of the 15th is very bad, as we have a workshop running that Friday > and Saturday, people coming in on Thursday and no doubt insanity ahead of > time. --elli > > > On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Sebastian Rahtz < > sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk> wrote: > > > Yeah, sorry. Don't not do. > > > > S > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Tue Jun 24 07:13:38 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:13:38 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 Message-ID: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> Hi all, I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical Council Face to Face at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing a google map at: https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 Do ask if you have any questions. Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the agenda! -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From PFSchaffner at umich.edu Wed Jun 25 15:16:20 2014 From: PFSchaffner at umich.edu (Paul Schaffner) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:16:20 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> The ever-reliable weather forecasts for Oxford appear to indicate a temperature range of 50 to 70 deg F (10 - 21 deg C), with at least a small chance of showers every day. Must remember to pack to suit. pfs ... as compared to 80 deg (27 C) and sunny here. On Tue, Jun 24, 2014, at 07:13, James Cummings wrote: > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Jun 26 06:50:37 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:50:37 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: Thanks James, your infos are perfect! And since in these day here in Rome we're having a typical English weather I will not suffer any climatic shock :) See you on Sunday evening! fc 2014-06-25 21:16 GMT+02:00 Paul Schaffner : > The ever-reliable weather forecasts for Oxford appear to indicate > a temperature range of 50 to 70 deg F (10 - 21 deg C), with at least > a small chance of showers every day. Must remember to pack to suit. > pfs > > ... as compared to 80 deg (27 C) and sunny here. > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014, at 07:13, James Cummings wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >> Council Face to Face >> at: >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >> >> a google map at: >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >> >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Do ask if you have any questions. >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >> agenda! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > Paul Schaffner Digital Library Production Service > PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Jun 26 07:25:15 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:25:15 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> Message-ID: I would close this ticket with a rejection since my arguments have been accepted or not refuted. FC 2014-05-27 11:12 GMT+02:00 Fabio Ciotti : > In general I would say no, since I don't think the TEI schema should > change so deeply for the requirements of a single user, especially if > there is a reasonable solution inside the actual schema. But if you > feel it would be nice to contact the submitter personally I can do it > (anyway many months have passed and probably they did find a > solution). > > Fabio > > 2014-05-22 17:27 GMT+02:00 Martin Holmes : >> Should we contact the submitter to see whether they have any good >> arguments that make nesting , or inside to solve >> the problem an inadequate solution? >> >> Cheers, >> Martin >> >> On 14-05-22 05:37 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >>> Sounds reasonable. >>> +1 for rejecting >>> >>> Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : >>> >>>> My opinion is to reject the request since: >>>> >>>> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >>>> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >>>> change them all >>>> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >>>> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >>>> have different markup semantic >>>> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >>>> nesting or inside >>>> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >>>> TEI scheme. >>>> >>>> Fabio >>>> >>>> >>>> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >>>> Comment: >>>> >>>> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> >>>> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >>>> >>>> Status: open >>>> Group: AMBER >>>> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >>>> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >>>> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >>>> >>>> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >>>> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >>>> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >>>> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >>>> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >>>> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >>>> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >>>> partially lost). >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 08:06:29 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:06:29 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <53AC0CC5.6060309@it.ox.ac.uk> Yes, we're increasingly thinking the 'picnic' might be at Sebastian's house, but we'll reassess this on Sunday when the weather forecast is clearer. ;-) Don't forget to add things to the agenda! http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 I'm going to suggest that we also have some ticket sessions where we actually sit down and individually *implement* and *close* old tickets. -James On 25/06/14 20:16, Paul Schaffner wrote: > The ever-reliable weather forecasts for Oxford appear to indicate > a temperature range of 50 to 70 deg F (10 - 21 deg C), with at least > a small chance of showers every day. Must remember to pack to suit. > pfs > > ... as compared to 80 deg (27 C) and sunny here. > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014, at 07:13, James Cummings wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >> Council Face to Face >> at: >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >> >> a google map at: >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >> >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Do ask if you have any questions. >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >> agenda! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jun 26 08:48:59 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 05:48:59 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53AC16BB.8080701@uvic.ca> +1 from me. Cheers, Mrtin On 14-06-26 04:25 AM, Fabio Ciotti wrote: > I would close this ticket with a rejection since my arguments have > been accepted or not refuted. > > FC > > 2014-05-27 11:12 GMT+02:00 Fabio Ciotti : >> In general I would say no, since I don't think the TEI schema should >> change so deeply for the requirements of a single user, especially if >> there is a reasonable solution inside the actual schema. But if you >> feel it would be nice to contact the submitter personally I can do it >> (anyway many months have passed and probably they did find a >> solution). >> >> Fabio >> >> 2014-05-22 17:27 GMT+02:00 Martin Holmes : >>> Should we contact the submitter to see whether they have any good >>> arguments that make nesting , or inside to solve >>> the problem an inadequate solution? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Martin >>> >>> On 14-05-22 05:37 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>> Sounds reasonable. >>>> +1 for rejecting >>>> >>>> Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : >>>> >>>>> My opinion is to reject the request since: >>>>> >>>>> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >>>>> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >>>>> change them all >>>>> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >>>>> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >>>>> have different markup semantic >>>>> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >>>>> nesting or inside >>>>> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >>>>> TEI scheme. >>>>> >>>>> Fabio >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >>>>> Comment: >>>>> >>>>> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >>>>> >>>>> Status: open >>>>> Group: AMBER >>>>> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >>>>> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >>>>> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >>>>> >>>>> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >>>>> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >>>>> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >>>>> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >>>>> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >>>>> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >>>>> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >>>>> partially lost). >>>>> >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> -- >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 08:51:59 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:51:59 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #617 not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) In-Reply-To: <53AC16BB.8080701@uvic.ca> References: <52702b0cea406b6717ed9b1d.bugs@tei.p.sourceforge.net>

<4599BB9E-8658-4B14-9455-3FB382302085@edirom.de> <537E1767.5080505@uvic.ca> <53AC16BB.8080701@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <53AC176F.9080400@it.ox.ac.uk> likewise from me. -James On 26/06/14 13:48, Martin Holmes wrote: > +1 from me. > > Cheers, > Mrtin > > On 14-06-26 04:25 AM, Fabio Ciotti wrote: >> I would close this ticket with a rejection since my arguments have >> been accepted or not refuted. >> >> FC >> >> 2014-05-27 11:12 GMT+02:00 Fabio Ciotti : >>> In general I would say no, since I don't think the TEI schema should >>> change so deeply for the requirements of a single user, especially if >>> there is a reasonable solution inside the actual schema. But if you >>> feel it would be nice to contact the submitter personally I can do it >>> (anyway many months have passed and probably they did find a >>> solution). >>> >>> Fabio >>> >>> 2014-05-22 17:27 GMT+02:00 Martin Holmes : >>>> Should we contact the submitter to see whether they have any good >>>> arguments that make nesting , or inside to solve >>>> the problem an inadequate solution? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 14-05-22 05:37 AM, Peter Stadler wrote: >>>>> Sounds reasonable. >>>>> +1 for rejecting >>>>> >>>>> Am 22.05.2014 um 12:39 schrieb Fabio Ciotti : >>>>> >>>>>> My opinion is to reject the request since: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) the same happens for many phrase level elements with similar >>>>>> semantic functions as or etc. For simmetry we should >>>>>> change them all >>>>>> 2) is (should) be used to carry morpho-syntactic features of its >>>>>> content, whil bears a semantic tract of its content, so they >>>>>> have different markup semantic >>>>>> 3) there is a fairly simple solution for both the issues, that is >>>>>> nesting or inside >>>>>> 4) in the worst case the issue can be faced with a local extension of >>>>>> TEI scheme. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fabio >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> assigned_to: Fabio Ciotti >>>>>> Comment: >>>>>> >>>>>> Assigning to Fabio Ciotti for triage, reporting to council, and implementation >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> [bugs:#617] not a part of att.segLike (and thus of att.fragmentable) >>>>>> >>>>>> Status: open >>>>>> Group: AMBER >>>>>> Created: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC by Ville Marttila >>>>>> Last Updated: Tue Oct 29, 2013 09:39 PM UTC >>>>>> Owner: Fabio Ciotti >>>>>> >>>>>> Considering that the element is parallel to the element in >>>>>> annotating a number, which can from a linguistic point of view be >>>>>> considered a word-level unit, it should also belong to the att.segLike >>>>>> class. This would not only provide it with the @function attribute for >>>>>> annotating its syntactic function but would also include it in the >>>>>> att.fragmentable class, allowing the annotation of incomplete numbers >>>>>> (esp. Roman numerals which are often quite long and can easily be >>>>>> partially lost). >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> -- >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Thu Jun 26 11:01:53 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:01:53 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] [tei:bugs] #627 Encoding example from Drama chapter uses @corresp instead of @synch Message-ID: I've been thinking a lot about this example, and there has been also an interesting exchange of opinions in sourceforge comments on it. In the end I think that the better solution is using @sync attribute on the first to assert the fact the the four speeches are simultaneous, and keeping @corresp in the to express the fact that it is a meta instruction that refers to all of them. I know this is in contradiction with my previous position against enlarging @corresp meaning, but I cannot see other simple solutions (except using a element with a @type attribute). In this way @corresp becomes a way to express in general any sort of rederence or relatedness. This makes me think that probably an attribute - say @refer - (possibly global) carrying this larger sense could be introduced, taking back @corresp to its sctrict pronominal function. Romary proposed the introduction of a more general to model this and other similar situation in performance texts. The idea could be fine, but if it is a container it could easily catch OH cases. It should work as an off-line markup, like and similar. Given those considerations I propose to emend for now the text of the Guidelines as follows, waiting for some more fitting solution or extension of the tagset. ---------------------
Simultaneous Action

In printed or written versions of performance texts, a variety of techniques may be used to indicate the temporal alignment of speeches or actions. Speeches may be printed vertically aligned on the page, or braced together; stage directions (e.g. Speaking at the same time) are also often used. In operatic or musical works in particular, the need to indicate timing and alignment of individual parts of a song may lead to very complex layout.

One simple method of indicating the temporal alignment of speeches or actions is to use the sync attribute discussed in section , as in the following example: Mangan wildly

Look here: I'm going to take off all my clothes.

he begins tearing off his coat. Lady Utterword

Mr Mangan!

Captain Shotover

Whats that?

Hector

Ha! ha! Do. Do.

Ellie

Please dont.

in consternation Mrs. Hushabye catching his arm and stopping him

Alfred: for shame! Are you mad?

In the original, the stage direction in consternation is printed opposite a brace grouping all four speeches, indicating that all four characters speak at once, and that the stage direction applies to all of them. Rather than attempting to represent the appearance of the source, this example encoding represents its presumed meaning: the simultaneity of the four speeches is conveyed by the sync attribute on the first sp element; the stage element is placed arbitrarily after the last relevant speech, and the fact that it is associated with all the four speeches is expressed by means of the corresp attribute. Those attributes, which are enabled by the linking module, provides a simple way of indicating the temporal alignment of speeches or actions in a play. Producing a readable version of the text which simulates the original printed effect may however require more complex markup and processing.

More powerful and more precise mechanisms for temporal alignment are defined in chapter . These would be appropriate for encodings the focus of which is on the actual performance of a text rather than its structure or formal properties. The module described in that chapter includes a large number of other detailed proposals for the encoding of such features as voice quality, prosody, etc., which might be relevant to such a treatment of performance texts.

-------------------------------------------------- Fabio From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jun 26 11:25:56 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 08:25:56 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53AC0CC5.6060309@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <53AC0CC5.6060309@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53AC3B84.20003@uvic.ca> I added three things on day one. One of them is possibly foisting some work on Lou and Sebastian: PureODD: Can Lou tell us where we're at and where we're going, and Sebastian talk about implementation (working, planned, and blue-sky)? Is that OK, or is it too short notice? Cheers, Martin On 14-06-26 05:06 AM, James Cummings wrote: > > Yes, we're increasingly thinking the 'picnic' might be at > Sebastian's house, but we'll reassess this on Sunday when the > weather forecast is clearer. ;-) > > Don't forget to add things to the agenda! > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > I'm going to suggest that we also have some ticket sessions where > we actually sit down and individually *implement* and *close* old > tickets. > > -James > > > On 25/06/14 20:16, Paul Schaffner wrote: >> The ever-reliable weather forecasts for Oxford appear to indicate >> a temperature range of 50 to 70 deg F (10 - 21 deg C), with at least >> a small chance of showers every day. Must remember to pack to suit. >> pfs >> >> ... as compared to 80 deg (27 C) and sunny here. >> >> On Tue, Jun 24, 2014, at 07:13, James Cummings wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >>> Council Face to Face >>> at: >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >>> >>> a google map at: >>> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >>> >>> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >>> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >>> >>> Do ask if you have any questions. >>> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >>> agenda! >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- >>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Thu Jun 26 11:34:44 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 15:34:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53AC3B84.20003@uvic.ca> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <1403723780.15402.134515993.7DCF8D0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> <53AC0CC5.6060309@it.ox.ac.uk> <53AC3B84.20003@uvic.ca> Message-ID: <568605BC-C5A9-4B7F-8000-A562A6A80471@it.ox.ac.uk> On 26 Jun 2014, at 16:25, Martin Holmes wrote: > I added three things on day one. One of them is possibly foisting some > work on Lou and Sebastian: > > PureODD: Can Lou tell us where we're at and where we're going, and > Sebastian talk about implementation (working, planned, and blue-sky)? I agree that we should take some time to look at Pure ODD. following some work on the stylesheets a few weeks ago, which cleared up the bugs Lou found, the issues on the table are: * whether it makes sense to have @allowText on sub elements of * what a set of elementRef as direct children of means * what the same thing means with @allowText * when and how to convert Gidlines to Pure ODD * testing testing testing you may find https://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets/blob/master/Test/test-pure.odd instructive, and results therefrom -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Thu Jun 26 18:06:29 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:06:29 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] , , and Message-ID: Hi all: I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature request: The elements listed above, , , and , are currently allowed only in or inside . We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, or because collation is being done automatically, without indicating thinking of it as a traditional app crit. solutions: 1. Elegance: add , , and to the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. One more point - I see a difference between and which could apply to features of a main text and and which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? thanks, --elli From philomousos at gmail.com Thu Jun 26 18:44:07 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:44:07 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] , , and In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> There would have to be a mechanism for identifying which witness each one belonged to if they occurred on their own in the text. Sent from my phone. > On Jun 26, 2014, at 18:06, "Mylonas, Elli" wrote: > > Hi all: > > I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature request: > > The elements listed above, , , and > , are currently allowed only in or inside . > > We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main > part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, or > because collation is being done automatically, without indicating thinking > of it as a traditional app crit. > > solutions: > 1. Elegance: add , , and to > the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. > 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. > > One more point - I see a difference between and > which could apply to features of a main text and and > which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. > > I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? > > thanks, --elli > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Thu Jun 26 22:38:19 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:38:19 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] , , and In-Reply-To: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> References: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> Message-ID: yes, that's a good point - not a problem for people encoding each witness as a separate document, (probably using lacunaStart/end). but otherwise it's an issue. thanks, --elli On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > There would have to be a mechanism for identifying which witness each one > belonged to if they occurred on their own in the text. > > Sent from my phone. > > > On Jun 26, 2014, at 18:06, "Mylonas, Elli" > wrote: > > > > Hi all: > > > > I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature > request: > > > > The elements listed above, , , and > > , are currently allowed only in or inside . > > > > We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main > > part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, > or > > because collation is being done automatically, without indicating > thinking > > of it as a traditional app crit. > > > > solutions: > > 1. Elegance: add , , and to > > the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. > > 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. > > > > One more point - I see a difference between and > > which could apply to features of a main text and and > > which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. > > > > I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? > > > > thanks, --elli > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From mholmes at uvic.ca Thu Jun 26 22:43:44 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 19:43:44 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] , , and In-Reply-To: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> References: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53ACDA60.7050700@uvic.ca> On 14-06-26 03:44 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > There would have to be a mechanism for identifying which witness each one belonged to if they occurred on their own in the text. Doesn't @wit do that? Cheers, Martin > > Sent from my phone. > >> On Jun 26, 2014, at 18:06, "Mylonas, Elli" wrote: >> >> Hi all: >> >> I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature request: >> >> The elements listed above, , , and >> , are currently allowed only in or inside . >> >> We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main >> part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, or >> because collation is being done automatically, without indicating thinking >> of it as a traditional app crit. >> >> solutions: >> 1. Elegance: add , , and to >> the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. >> 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. >> >> One more point - I see a difference between and >> which could apply to features of a main text and and >> which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. >> >> I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? >> >> thanks, --elli >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Thu Jun 26 22:49:04 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:49:04 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] , , and In-Reply-To: <53ACDA60.7050700@uvic.ca> References: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> <53ACDA60.7050700@uvic.ca> Message-ID: yes, it does. --elli On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:43 PM, Martin Holmes wrote: > On 14-06-26 03:44 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: > > There would have to be a mechanism for identifying which witness each > one belonged to if they occurred on their own in the text. > > Doesn't @wit do that? > > Cheers, > Martin > > > > > Sent from my phone. > > > >> On Jun 26, 2014, at 18:06, "Mylonas, Elli" > wrote: > >> > >> Hi all: > >> > >> I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature > request: > >> > >> The elements listed above, , , and > >> , are currently allowed only in or inside . > >> > >> We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main > >> part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, > or > >> because collation is being done automatically, without indicating > thinking > >> of it as a traditional app crit. > >> > >> solutions: > >> 1. Elegance: add , , and to > >> the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. > >> 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. > >> > >> One more point - I see a difference between and > > >> which could apply to features of a main text and and > >> which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. > >> > >> I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? > >> > >> thanks, --elli > >> -- > >> tei-council mailing list > >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >> > >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From philomousos at gmail.com Fri Jun 27 05:34:11 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 05:34:11 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] , , and In-Reply-To: <53ACDA60.7050700@uvic.ca> References: <66B967E7-F3B5-44D5-8C5C-5A066129156C@gmail.com> <53ACDA60.7050700@uvic.ca> Message-ID: It does. That's what I get for looking at the Guidelines on my phone! Sent from my phone. > On Jun 26, 2014, at 22:43, Martin Holmes wrote: > >> On 14-06-26 03:44 PM, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> There would have to be a mechanism for identifying which witness each one belonged to if they occurred on their own in the text. > > Doesn't @wit do that? > > Cheers, > Martin > >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >>> On Jun 26, 2014, at 18:06, "Mylonas, Elli" wrote: >>> >>> Hi all: >>> >>> I am writing you to ask for comments on the following TEI feature request: >>> >>> The elements listed above, , , and >>> , are currently allowed only in or inside . >>> >>> We have had requests to allow these milestone-like elements in the main >>> part of a text - either because witnesses are being encoded separately, or >>> because collation is being done automatically, without indicating thinking >>> of it as a traditional app crit. >>> >>> solutions: >>> 1. Elegance: add , , and to >>> the milestoneLike model and remove them from textcrit. >>> 2. Functionality: use anchor with a type for this purpose. >>> >>> One more point - I see a difference between and >>> which could apply to features of a main text and and >>> which seem to belong in a main text but refer to other witnesses. >>> >>> I think I cast my vote for opening them up. Comments? >>> >>> thanks, --elli >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it Sat Jun 28 03:23:25 2014 From: fabio.ciotti at uniroma2.it (Fabio Ciotti) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 09:23:25 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Shall we add single tickets discussion on the agenda or we put a general point like "discussion of tickets" and then we arrange the discussion during the meeting? fc 2014-06-24 13:13 GMT+02:00 James Cummings : > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 28 04:01:39 2014 From: james.cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 08:01:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk>, Message-ID: I'll be filling out the agenda today with approximate timings and sections to discuss tickets and sections to try to implement tickets. James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -------- Original message -------- From: Fabio Ciotti Date:2014/06/28 08:23 (GMT+00:00) To: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 Shall we add single tickets discussion on the agenda or we put a general point like "discussion of tickets" and then we arrange the discussion during the meeting? fc 2014-06-24 13:13 GMT+02:00 James Cummings : > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Sat Jun 28 12:42:34 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 12:42:34 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: not sure about adding to the agenda - I'd like to have a meeting with Sebastian and other Hackathon participants in order to do some shaping of the projects and send out some more email in the hope that we can make one or two projects stand out. Also to include the ever larger number of newbies. --elli On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 7:13 AM, James Cummings wrote: > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sat Jun 28 14:41:16 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:41:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk>, Message-ID: <043c74c2-09e7-4e9d-8d4f-7bfc5339a327@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> I have a cunning plan I made with Magdalena to share with you Carved in stone on my iPad > On 28 Jun 2014, at 17:42, "Mylonas, Elli" wrote: > > not sure about adding to the agenda - I'd like to have a meeting with > Sebastian and other Hackathon participants in order to do some shaping of > the projects and send out some more email in the hope that we can make one > or two projects stand out. Also to include the ever larger number of > newbies. > > --elli > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 7:13 AM, James Cummings > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >> Council Face to Face >> at: >> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >> >> a google map at: >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >> >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Do ask if you have any questions. >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >> agenda! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From elli_mylonas at brown.edu Sat Jun 28 14:46:20 2014 From: elli_mylonas at brown.edu (Mylonas, Elli) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:46:20 -0400 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <043c74c2-09e7-4e9d-8d4f-7bfc5339a327@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <043c74c2-09e7-4e9d-8d4f-7bfc5339a327@HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: can't wait. --elli [sent from my mobile, please excuse brevity and possible typos] On Jun 28, 2014 2:41 PM, "Sebastian Rahtz" wrote: > I have a cunning plan I made with Magdalena to share with you > > Carved in stone on my iPad > > > On 28 Jun 2014, at 17:42, "Mylonas, Elli" > wrote: > > > > not sure about adding to the agenda - I'd like to have a meeting with > > Sebastian and other Hackathon participants in order to do some shaping of > > the projects and send out some more email in the hope that we can make > one > > or two projects stand out. Also to include the ever larger number of > > newbies. > > > > --elli > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 7:13 AM, James Cummings < > James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > >> Council Face to Face > >> at: > >> > >> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > >> > >> a google map at: > >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > >> > >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > >> > >> Do ask if you have any questions. > >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > >> agenda! > >> > >> -James > >> > >> -- > >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > >> -- > >> tei-council mailing list > >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >> > >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > From philomousos at gmail.com Sun Jun 29 04:45:50 2014 From: philomousos at gmail.com (Hugh Cayless) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 09:45:50 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. I'd like to be over my jet lag too. Sent from my phone. > On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 05:51:38 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 10:51:38 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53AFE1AA.1040706@it.ox.ac.uk> I've added this and other things, and suggested timings to http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php?title=Council_agenda_2014-06 Please update to include things I've left out. -James On 29/06/14 09:45, Hugh Cayless wrote: > Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. > > I'd like to be over my jet lag too. > > Sent from my phone. > >> On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >> Council Face to Face >> at: >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >> >> a google map at: >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >> >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Do ask if you have any questions. >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >> agenda! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr Sun Jun 29 05:52:06 2014 From: stefanie.gehrke at biblissima-condorcet.fr (Stefanie Gehrke) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:52:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [tei-council] =?utf-8?q?Re=C2=A0=3A_Re=3A__TEI_Technical_Council?= =?utf-8?q?=3A_Face_to_Face_Meeting=092014-06-30_to_2014-07-02?= In-Reply-To: <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> Message-ID: <846872779.4778076.1404035526859.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> I d like to learn more about - where are we concerning the object working group ? Regards Stefanie -- Stefanie Gehrke ------------------------ Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima Campus Condorcet 3 rue de la Croix Faron 93206 Saint-Denis Cedex T?l. : +33 (0)1 55 93 75 00 www.biblissima-condorcet.fr @biblissima ----- Mail d'origine ----- De: Hugh Cayless ?: James Cummings Cc: TEI Council Envoy?: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 10:45:50 +0200 (CEST) Objet: Re: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. I'd like to be over my jet lag too. Sent from my phone. > On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical > Council Face to Face > at: > https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing > > a google map at: > https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY > > and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Do ask if you have any questions. > Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the > agenda! > > -James > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived From stadler at edirom.de Sun Jun 29 07:11:56 2014 From: stadler at edirom.de (Peter Stadler) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 13:11:56 +0200 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <53AFE1AA.1040706@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> <53AFE1AA.1040706@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6660A6E6-544D-4C0E-95EA-FEB9BDC97E72@edirom.de> I?d like to make as much progress with our correspDesc-proposal [1]. Shall we assign a slot to that issue and I'll give a very short introduction (since I did not get much feedback yet ?) Best Peter [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/510/ Am 29.06.2014 um 11:51 schrieb James Cummings : > > I've added this and other things, and suggested timings to > http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php?title=Council_agenda_2014-06 > > Please update to include things I've left out. > > -James > > On 29/06/14 09:45, Hugh Cayless wrote: >> Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. >> >> I'd like to be over my jet lag too. >> >> Sent from my phone. >> >>> On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >>> Council Face to Face >>> at: >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >>> >>> a google map at: >>> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >>> >>> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >>> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >>> >>> Do ask if you have any questions. >>> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >>> agenda! >>> >>> -James >>> >>> -- >>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>> -- >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk > Academic IT Services, University of Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20140629/71974e89/attachment.bin From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 07:13:27 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:13:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple update Message-ID: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> I?ll be briefing you tomorrow on the contents of http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/TEISimpleProposal.docx, so it would be useful if you could look at it in advance. As James will explain, we need to give an assurance about its future. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 07:48:53 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:48:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] =?utf-8?q?Re=C2=A0=3A_Re=3A__TEI_Technical_Council?= =?utf-8?q?=3A_Face_to_Face_Meeting_2014-06-30_to_2014-07-02?= In-Reply-To: <846872779.4778076.1404035526859.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> <846872779.4778076.1404035526859.JavaMail.zimbra@biblissima-condorcet.fr> Message-ID: <53AFFD25.8090501@it.ox.ac.uk> I emailed Torsten this week but have heard nothing back :-( -James On 29/06/14 10:52, Stefanie Gehrke wrote: > I d like to learn more about - where are we concerning the object working group ? > > Regards > Stefanie > > -- > Stefanie Gehrke > ------------------------ > Coordinatrice Metadonn?es - Equipex Biblissima > Campus Condorcet > 3 rue de la Croix Faron > 93206 Saint-Denis Cedex > T?l. : +33 (0)1 55 93 75 00 > www.biblissima-condorcet.fr > @biblissima > > ----- Mail d'origine ----- > De: Hugh Cayless > ?: James Cummings > Cc: TEI Council > Envoy?: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 10:45:50 +0200 (CEST) > Objet: Re: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 > > Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. > > I'd like to be over my jet lag too. > > Sent from my phone. > >> On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >> Council Face to Face >> at: >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >> >> a google map at: >> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >> >> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Do ask if you have any questions. >> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >> agenda! >> >> -James >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 07:49:17 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:49:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Technical Council: Face to Face Meeting 2014-06-30 to 2014-07-02 In-Reply-To: <6660A6E6-544D-4C0E-95EA-FEB9BDC97E72@edirom.de> References: <53A95D62.6020009@it.ox.ac.uk> <49BA26A4-0694-4001-AEAE-878CF4FF5169@gmail.com> <53AFE1AA.1040706@it.ox.ac.uk> <6660A6E6-544D-4C0E-95EA-FEB9BDC97E72@edirom.de> Message-ID: <53AFFD3D.7020608@it.ox.ac.uk> Yes please, add it to the wiki page. -James On 29/06/14 12:11, Peter Stadler wrote: > I?d like to make as much progress with our correspDesc-proposal [1]. Shall we assign a slot to that issue and I'll give a very short introduction (since I did not get much feedback yet ?) > > Best > Peter > > [1] https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/510/ > > > Am 29.06.2014 um 11:51 schrieb James Cummings : > >> >> I've added this and other things, and suggested timings to >> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php?title=Council_agenda_2014-06 >> >> Please update to include things I've left out. >> >> -James >> >> On 29/06/14 09:45, Hugh Cayless wrote: >>> Two things I'd like: nail down the Fall F2F, and (if there's time) talk about Linked Data in TEI. I.e. what to do with relation and representing RDF-style relationships. >>> >>> I'd like to be over my jet lag too. >>> >>> Sent from my phone. >>> >>>> On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:13, James Cummings wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I've posted some joining instructions for the TEI Technical >>>> Council Face to Face >>>> at: >>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/16TVhMwmMxnBVGnLSxI5Il2Q-s7nS7tH4iS3MRcIUjrQ/edit?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> a google map at: >>>> https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=z5kNNI17e3DU.kWXJ87Ei2REY >>>> >>>> and opened an (as yet blank) agenda at: >>>> http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council_agenda_2014-06 >>>> >>>> Do ask if you have any questions. >>>> Do fill in any larger issues you think we should discuss into the >>>> agenda! >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >>>> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >>>> -- >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived >> >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk >> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford >> -- >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 07:51:23 2014 From: James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:51:23 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple update In-Reply-To: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53AFFDBB.6070604@it.ox.ac.uk> On 29/06/14 12:13, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I?ll be briefing you tomorrow on the contents of http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/TEISimpleProposal.docx, > so it would be useful if you could look at it in advance. > > As James will explain, we need to give an assurance about its future. It is basically that as part of the TEI-C's commitment to it we are promising that Council will maintain it in the future (in the same way it does Tite, Lite, etc.). I think this is fair and unproblematic, but since we're promising it to Mellon it would be good to have it minuted during the meeting. Best, -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings at it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford From sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk Sun Jun 29 08:01:48 2014 From: sebastian.rahtz at it.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:01:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple update In-Reply-To: <53AFFDBB.6070604@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> <53AFFDBB.6070604@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <90041b39-b755-49c7-9636-07bea6bbfb26@HUB06.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk> On 29 Jun 2014, at 12:51, James Cummings wrote: > > It is basically that as part of the TEI-C's commitment to it we > are promising that Council will maintain it in the future (in the > same way it does Tite, Lite, etc.). also noting that one of the outputs is new features for ODD around processing rules. assuming the Council agrees with the ideas, obviously we?ll maintain it. we can confirm tomorrow whether the Council is happy in principle with the idea of this extension of ODD. -- Sebastian Rahtz Director (Research) of Academic IT University of Oxford IT Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 N?o sou nada. Nunca serei nada. N?o posso querer ser nada. ? parte isso, tenho em mim todos os sonhos do mundo. From mholmes at uvic.ca Sun Jun 29 11:26:48 2014 From: mholmes at uvic.ca (Martin Holmes) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 16:26:48 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Simple update In-Reply-To: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> References: <340EEAAE-4DBA-48A9-9EC0-9A531371D2D0@it.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <53B03038.1050604@uvic.ca> A few devil's-advocate responses from my first reading: This bit is obviously important for us: "5 Full integration of TEI Simple into the TEI Guidelines and infrastructure with ongoing maintenance by the TEI Technical council." What will this look like? I'm imagining, for instance, that on the reference page for an element which is used in Simple there's a "Simple" link which shows you an alternative reference page, which includes any constraints on content or attributes in the Simple environment, along with processing expectations from Simple's processing model. The budget costs this work at $3,600 and assigns it only one month. That suggests that what is envisaged is something along these simple lines, rather than any wholesale rewrite of Guidelines chapters. "The first step in this project will be the definition of the TEI Simple dtd or schema." Why DTD? Whywhywhy? 'A "cradle to grave" processing model is at the heart of this project.' I'm not sure about that phrase "cradle to grave". It presupposes that output formatting can be characterized either in a language that can be assumed never to change, or in a more abstract manner which we can expect to be able to map onto changing rendering technologies indefinitely. The former is difficult to imagine, while the latter is going to leave lots of room for interpretation. Later on, the document is more explicit in saying that the processing model will be represented in HTML and CSS; that's very specific and short-term, surely? HTML5 has actually brought HTML somewhat closer to TEI in adding a lot of conceptual elements such as
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