[tei-council] biblscope and imprint

[Kevin Hawkins]

Ugh, Gabby and I both misremembered the proposal at 
http://purl.org/tei/FR/3555190 .  Lou is right that according to that 
proposal, there is never a <biblScope> in <analytic>, so the Chestnutt 
citation encoded according to the proposal would be:

<biblStruct>
   <analytic>
     <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
     <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
   </analytic>
   <monogr>
     <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
     <imprint>
       <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
     </imprint>
     <biblScope type="vol">25</biblScope>
     <biblScope type="issue">6</biblScope>
     <biblScope type="pp">377–380</biblScope>
   </monogr>
</biblStruct>

(which is more or less how I first wrote it below).

On 11/3/12 7:35 AM, Lou Burnard wrote:
> Looking at this suggestion again: surely it cannot ever be right to put
> a <biblScope> within an <analytic> ?
>
> See further my comment on the ticket -- specifically
>
> "I think the sentence "Each <biblScope> describes where (within its
> parent element) to find the thing in the previous level" is correct, but
> only if you understand the word "level" as "preceding sibling of a
> different bibliographic level"
>
> Hence the pagination biblScope ought to go within the monogr, not within
> the analytic. This also makes sense if the same article appears in two
> different monogrs, possibly with different pagination.
>
>
>
> On 02/11/12 18:14, Lou Burnard wrote:
>> On 02/11/12 15:11, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>>> Gabby's right. I was focusing on placement of <biblScope> in relation to
>>> <imprint>.  So Lou's citation (from the Guidelines) would in fact be:
>>>
>>> <biblStruct>
>>>       <analytic>
>>>         <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>>         <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>>         <biblScope type="pp">377–380</biblScope>
>>>       </analytic>
>>>       <monogr>
>>>         <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>         <imprint>
>>>           <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>         </imprint>
>>>         <biblScope type="vol">25</biblScope>
>>>         <biblScope type="issue">6</biblScope>
>>>       </monogr>
>>> </biblStruct>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2012 10:50 AM, Gabriel Bodard wrote:
>>>> Is that what we proposed?
>>>>
>>>> I thought I remembered we had suggested to put the biblScope in the
>>>> element whose scope is being defined by it, so<biblScope type="pp">
>>>> goes in<analytic>  because the article is only pages 377-380 of the
>>>> volume in question, and<biblScope type="issue">  goes in<monogr>
>>>> because this volume is only issue 25.6 of the journal....
>>>>
>>>> But looking at this stuff I find myself more and more agreeing with
>>>> Martin that biblStruct was never a good idea. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>> On 2012-11-02 14:29, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>>>>> The ticket proposes putting<biblScope>s after the<imprint>  element
>>>>> when its present.  So your example would now be encoded as:
>>>>>
>>>>> <biblStruct>
>>>>>         <analytic>
>>>>>           <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>>>>           <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>>>>         </analytic>
>>>>>         <monogr>
>>>>>           <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>>           <imprint>
>>>>>             <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>>           </imprint>
>>>>>           <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>>           <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>>         </monogr>
>>>>> </biblStruct>
>>>>>
>>>>> --Kevin
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/2/2012 7:02 AM, Lou Burnard wrote:
>>>>>> Tootling across france on the train yesterday I started trying to deal
>>>>>> with http://purl.org/tei/FR/3555190...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The part about the scope of biblscope was fairly easy to add, as was
>>>>>> guidance on usage of biblScope. But I hit a problem with the second
>>>>>> part, where it says that biblScope doesn't belong inside<imprint>   --
>>>>>> the logic behind that desire is impeccable, but it messes up an awful
>>>>>> lot of out current practice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider the following:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <biblStruct>
>>>>>> <analytic>
>>>>>> <author>Chesnutt, David</author>
>>>>>> <title>Historical Editions in the States</title>
>>>>>> </analytic>
>>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>>> <imprint>
>>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>>> <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>>> </biblStruct>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which is a fairly common pattern in P5 (and appears as the canonical
>>>>>> example for<imprint>)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If, following FR 3555190, we think<biblStruct>   has no place within
>>>>>> <imprint>, how should
>>>>>> this, and many similar cases, be tagged?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One possibility might be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>>> <imprint>
>>>>>> <date when="1991-12">(December, 1991):</date>
>>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another might be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <monogr>
>>>>>> <title level="j">Computers and the Humanities</title>
>>>>>> <biblScope>25.6</biblScope>
>>>>>> <biblScope>377–380</biblScope>
>>>>>> <biblScope type="date">(December, 1991)</biblScope>
>>>>>> </imprint>
>>>>>> </monogr>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or perhaps better
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <biblScope><date when="1991-12">(December, 1991)</date></biblScope>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another might be to tweak the content model so that
>>>>>> model.dateLike is permitted outside<imprint>   and alongside<biblScope>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And another might be to reconsider the decision to remove<biblScope>
>>>>>> from within<imprint>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas? Everyone braced for the rush of complaints?
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>