[tei-council] [Fwd: Re: <note place="foot"/> vs. <note place="bottom"/>]

[Laurent Romary]

To answer at least your first point, "suggested" means concretely that  
these values appear on your favourite XML editor when you use a  
default TEI compliant schema (like the one by default on Oxygen, or  
any your download without paying attention to the note issue). I agree  
with that the potential complexity of the note issue should prevent us  
from going to deep into defining values, but our standardisation duty  
is to contribute to convergence by a) covering core usages as much as  
we can and b) provide maintenance for strong suggestions we had made  
so far.
Footnotes is to my view such a strong use case and David has proven us  
(if need be) that 'foot' is the value that is used by default by TEI  
encoders.

++ I would thus strongly suggest to reintroduce 'foot' with specific  
documentation in the list of suggested values and ammend the prose for  
bottom to prevent ambiguity.


Le 19 mars 09 à 20:45, Paul F. Schaffner a écrit :

> On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Lou Burnard wrote:
>> Council members may like to mull over whether or not we should
>> reconsider @place="foot"... it is actually used passim in the  
>> Guidelines
>> source :-(
>
> Just so I'm clear, these are our suggested values, right?
>
> o below (below the line)
> o bottom (at the foot of the page)
> o margin (in the margin (left, right, or both))
> o top (at the top of the page)
> o opposite (on the opposite, i.e. facing, page)
> o overleaf (on the other side of the leaf)
> o above (above the line)
> o end (at the end of e.g. chapter or volume.)
> o inline (within the body of the text.)
> o inspace (in a predefined space)
>
> My questions would be:
>
> -- What exactly is the force of 'suggested'? If it
>  is weak, if the values are merely illustrative,
>  then I do not suppose it matters much what
>  specific terms are suggested.
>
> -- Thinking of the notes I deal with (or avert my
>  gaze from) every day, there are many common
>  @places not included in this list. Aside from
>  foot (and yes, we use 'foot') = at the foot of
>  the page; there are notes at the bottom of other
>  sub-div units, e.g. notes after each stanza
>  of a poem, or after each paragraph; shoulder
>  notes; mixed notes that begin as interlinears
>  and spread down the margin to the foot of the
>  page and then spread across the page; notes
>  placed opposite the text in what amounts to
>  another column of the same table; notes at the
>  end of the div, or of the superordinate div, or
>  of the volume, or the book; notes above the word
>  (as opposed to above the line); etc. Given their
>  infinite variety, how much should we worry
>  about suggesting a few values anyway?
>
> -- Does we make any specific recommendations for
>  distinguishing between multiple note series
>  in the same general location? In the example
>  from the Dunciad, the tagger  distinguished the two sets
>  of footnotes using @type, but is that generalizable?
>  I shouldn't think so; the example might even be
>  misleading in that regard. What does one do when
>  the two series are of essentially the same @type
>  (e.g. 'textual') but nevertheless of distinct series?
>
>  (TCP uses numbers affixed to the @place value, e.g.
>  place="foot1" vs. place="foot2" to distinguish series;
>  this is of course a kludge, like most of what we do!).
>
> -- Do we make any specific recommendations for
>  distinguishing between note series based on
>  the character or rendering of their markers?
>  E.g., an alphabetical series of notes alongside
>  a numeric series vs. an asterisk-flagged series,
>  all in the margin, like in the 1602 Geneva Bible.
>
> -- Do we make any provision for recording the 'running'
>  labels associated with marginal or foot notes.
>  (Again as in the Dunciad example, which uses @type,
>  or frequently found at the head of the margin
>  on every page). Is this an <fw> or something
>  else? (We tend to 'distribute' such labels,
>  rather unhappily, into each note in the series
>  as a <label>: <note place="margin" n="2"><label>
>  Comments.</label> ... </note>).
>
> -- Finally, do we make any specific recommendations
>  for distinguishing more finely between the suggested
>  place values listed? e.g. books that have different
>  sets of notes in the inner and outer margins (or
>  the left and right margins).
>
> There are probably answers to some of these lurking somewhere
> in the documentation, but I suppose my feeling (eager
> as always to be corrected) is that there are so many
> potential complications to the placement of notes, that
> most people dealing with historical materials will have
> to contrive their own customized set of values in any case.
>
> pfs
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Paul Schaffner | PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
> 316-C Hatcher Library N, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205
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