From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sun Jan 4 08:17:26 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:17:26 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Converging on dates In-Reply-To: <96f3df640901031344x56a22ec5p9905b1096485ac2b@mail.gmail.com> References: <90644FCC-B727-4A16-AE29-359B7323376A@loria.fr> <96f3df640901031344x56a22ec5p9905b1096485ac2b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I usually use the IBIS chain (no fancy - no surprise - good online reservation), but Lou must have a few good tips ;-) Laurent Le 3 janv. 09 ? 22:44, Dot Porter a ?crit : > I'm preparing to make travel arrangements and would like to stay in > Paris through the weekend (leaving Sunday). Will others also be > staying extra days? Any suggestions for good (cheap) lodgings in > Paris? > > Thanks, > Dot > > On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Laurent Romary > wrote: >> Paris CDG + TGV (fast train) from Charles de Gaulle to Lyon (there >> are >> direct lines!) >> >> >> Le 17 d?c. 08 ? 16:13, David Sewell a ?crit : >> >>> Laurent, for people who will be flying, can you recommend the best >>> combination of airports/trains? (Fly direct into Lyon, or to Paris + >>> train, or ... ?) >>> >>> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Laurent Romary wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> Could I suggest (from the answers so far and the information from >>>> the >>>> French side) that we converge rapidly on the following dates: >>>> - 1st April: TEI seminar with TEI related projects >>>> - 2nd-3rd: TEI internal council >>>> Shout if it is a real problem! (sorry Elena :-( ) >>>> Since it seems we now have a global travel budget for the whole >>>> year, >>>> try to get the cheapest travel tickets right away so that we have a >>>> chance to meet again later next year. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Laurent >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager >>> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press >>> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA >>> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 >>> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 >>> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > > > > -- > ******************************* > Dot Porter, MA, MSLS > Metadata Manager > Digital Humanities Observatory (RIA) > Pembroke House > 28-32 Upper Pembroke Street > Dublin 2, Ireland > > -- A Project of the Royal Irish Academy -- > > > Phone: +353 1 234 2444 > Fax: +353 1 234 2400 > Email: dot.porter at gmail.com > > http://dho.ie > ******************************* From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 4 10:05:27 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:05:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> David Sewell wrote: > > http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ B is a no-no, in my book, but A is OK; to be honest, not _very_ exciting but I'd live with it. I can imagine using the 5th one on pages. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 5 05:14:39 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:14:39 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Converging on dates In-Reply-To: <90644FCC-B727-4A16-AE29-359B7323376A@loria.fr> References: <90644FCC-B727-4A16-AE29-359B7323376A@loria.fr> Message-ID: Hi there, I'm sorry I cannot attend: I will be in Australia. I am really disappointed as I would very much be able to attend, as I know that the amount of work done on a face to face is crucial to the activities of the council, but I appreciate that many people cannot on other dates. Sorry to not replay earlier, I was on a conference with ho internet connections and after on holiday. Elena On 17 Dec 2008, at 15:00, Laurent Romary wrote: > Dear all, > Could I suggest (from the answers so far and the information from the > French side) that we converge rapidly on the following dates: > - 1st April: TEI seminar with TEI related projects > - 2nd-3rd: TEI internal council > Shout if it is a real problem! (sorry Elena :-( ) > Since it seems we now have a global travel budget for the whole year, > try to get the cheapest travel tickets right away so that we have a > chance to meet again later next year. > Cheers, > Laurent > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 5 05:18:28 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:18:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I like A design too. Elena On 19 Dec 2008, at 18:49, David Sewell wrote: > Please take a look at: > > http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ > > Do we want to try adding both designs to an existing website to see > how > they look? Or is there a strong preference for Design A vs. B? > > David > > -- > David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager > ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press > PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA > Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 > Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 > Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 5 05:33:48 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:33:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > David Sewell wrote: >> http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ > > B is a no-no, in my book, but A is OK; > to be honest, not _very_ exciting > but I'd live with it. I can imagine > using the 5th one on pages. > I agree. Except that I would use A4 rather than A5. From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 5 06:07:37 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:07:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > I agree. Except that I would use A4 rather than A5. Same for me. I thought we agreed the simpler was better. Arianna > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Jan 5 10:07:32 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:07:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: If we can agree on a "canonical" set of badges (numbers A1-4 at http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ ?), then the next step would be to decide how to publicize them and make them available. Certainly we'd want to send a note to TEI-L. Beyond that, it would make sense to create a page on www.tei-c.org containing the icons and saying something about how they should be used. I don't see an intuitively obvious top-level menu, however (Tools? Membership? About?). David On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Arianna Ciula wrote: > > > Lou Burnard wrote: > > I agree. Except that I would use A4 rather than A5. > > Same for me. I thought we agreed the simpler was better. > > Arianna > > _______________________________________________ > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From pboot at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 5 15:19:48 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:19:48 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49626B64.1020500@xs4all.nl> David Sewell schreef: > Beyond that, it would make sense to create > a page on www.tei-c.org containing the icons and saying something about > how they should be used. I don't see an intuitively obvious top-level > menu, however (Tools? Membership? About?). They serve different purposes. I'd think the appropriate place for A4 is the Guidelines menu. That is what it will declare people have adhered to. For A1-A3, which seem less important to me, the Membership menu would seem the proper place. Peter From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Mon Jan 5 17:57:53 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Daniel Paul O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:57:53 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1231196273.6387.25.camel@cynewulf> Well, this is really a board decision, as it involves branding. What I thought of doing next was taking this to the board for approval and/or additional suggestions. Am I right that the Council's feeling is the A series? And I have the impression that we are generally less enthused about the qualifications (P5, etc.). I don't really see that as an issue though. I haven't done a count, but it looks like there's a majority in favour of the As. With Laurent's permission, I'll take that as a council recommendation if I don't hear otherwise by Friday--my day for dealing with this. -dan On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 10:07 -0500, David Sewell wrote: > If we can agree on a "canonical" set of badges (numbers A1-4 at > http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ ?), then the next step would be to > decide how to publicize them and make them available. Certainly we'd > want to send a note to TEI-L. Beyond that, it would make sense to create > a page on www.tei-c.org containing the icons and saying something about > how they should be used. I don't see an intuitively obvious top-level > menu, however (Tools? Membership? About?). > > David > > > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Arianna Ciula wrote: > > > > > > > Lou Burnard wrote: > > > I agree. Except that I would use A4 rather than A5. > > > > Same for me. I thought we agreed the simpler was better. > > > > Arianna > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tei-council mailing list > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > From dsewell at virginia.edu Tue Jan 6 10:35:18 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:35:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, first look In-Reply-To: <1231196273.6387.25.camel@cynewulf> References: <4960D037.4080101@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E20C.3080901@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4961E9F9.3050404@kcl.ac.uk> <1231196273.6387.25.camel@cynewulf> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Daniel Paul O'Donnell wrote: > Well, this is really a board decision, as it involves branding. Right--forgetting that Council is not all-powerful. :-) If the Board has any requests for design modification, please let me know so that I can pass them on to the designer. -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 04:45:01 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:45:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Dot Porter wrote on TEI-L: > > Looking at the description of @place in the guidelines > (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-att.placement.html), > I note that 'inline' is listed twice as a "suggested value", with two > different definitions: this is patently ridiculous, and I think must be sorted out for the next release in a few weeks time. among other things, it screws up what I was doing for adding translations. the two descriptions are "addition is made in a space left in the witness by an earlier scribe" "note appears as a marked paragraph in the body of the text" so we need a new description which combines both, or make up some new names. maybe, for example, use "insertion" as the name for the first situation above? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 05:48:34 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:48:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Dot Porter wrote on TEI-L: > the two descriptions are > > "addition is made in a space left in the witness by an earlier scribe" > "note appears as a marked paragraph in the body of the text" may be something like: "note appears as a marked paragraph in the body of the text or in a space left in the witness by an earlier scribe" > > so we need a new description which combines both, or make > up some new names. maybe, for example, use "insertion" > as the name for the first situation above? I wouldn't change the name since 'inline' still stands for a 'location' in the page, while 'insertion' is more of an editorial statement that the observation of the position of the text in question. Arianna -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 06:40:37 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:40:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Arianna Ciula wrote: > may be something like: > "note appears as a marked paragraph in the body of the text or in a > space left in the witness by an earlier scribe" ok, except that I'd omit the word "note", as I think @place is now used for more than notes. >> >> so we need a new description which combines both, or make >> up some new names. maybe, for example, use "insertion" >> as the name for the first situation above? > > I wouldn't change the name since 'inline' still stands for a > 'location' in the page, while 'insertion' is more of an editorial > statement that the observation of the position of the text in question. ok, see what you mean -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 06:52:19 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Ciula, Arianna) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:52:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Arianna Ciula wrote: >> may be something like: >> "note appears as a marked paragraph in the body of the text or in a >> space left in the witness by an earlier scribe" > ok, except that I'd omit the word "note", as I think @place > is now used for more than notes. I was using 'note' to be consistent with the rest of the values. In any case, before compacting it, may be we should wait for others to comment on this. In fact Dot seems to imply she needs to make a distinction between these two senses of 'inline' in her encoding. Arianna -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 07:12:10 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:12:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20090107/381cf829/attachment.asc From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 7 07:14:52 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:14:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > Looking at this more closely, it's clear that the suggested value list has been > made by simply merging previously existing (but on different attributes) lists, > with no attempt to rationalise any resulting inconsistency. and indeed Syd admits as much. its been that way for years, sadly, without any of us noticing. I am wondering about checking for others like this. > However it clearly needs a major overhaul. I'm willing to propose a candidate > replacement, if no-one else does. > i suggest you just do it, since (as you say) its advisory only. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 7 07:29:40 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:29:40 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> Yes. please. come with a comprehensive proposal there! Laurent Le 7 janv. 09 ? 13:14, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > Lou Burnard wrote: >> Looking at this more closely, it's clear that the suggested value >> list has been >> made by simply merging previously existing (but on different >> attributes) lists, >> with no attempt to rationalise any resulting inconsistency. > and indeed Syd admits as much. its been that way > for years, sadly, without any of us noticing. I am > wondering about checking for others like this. >> However it clearly needs a major overhaul. I'm willing to propose a >> candidate >> replacement, if no-one else does. >> > i suggest you just do it, since (as you say) > its advisory only. > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 10 12:49:58 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 17:49:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] p5 release 1.2.1 (or 1.3) Message-ID: <4968DFC6.5010604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> We are slated to make a new release at the start of next month. There has been some error-fixing activity since the last time, but we probably don't need a full point release. I have just added Chinese translations of examples, and the French have put a fair number of fixes in. There are also bug fixes to Roma and stylesheets. So this is in the nature of a last call for changes; if you're expecting something to have been done for this release, check whether its already been done; if not, shout at us in Oxford. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 12 16:08:40 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:08:40 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] valDesc changes Message-ID: <496BB158.2030403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I have reluctantly made some fixes to ODD, changing to be allowed multiple times, and to be "translatable", ie have a @version. This is because the French have been translating them. I suspect is a rather deprecated creature anyway, but this seemed the least worst solution. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 12 18:04:44 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:04:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] fairly noticeable change in ODD processing Message-ID: <496BCC8C.5020304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> If you use the Roma on tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, you should see a change in the documentation (and generated schemas, if you care to look), in that the attribute class references are preserved where possible, rather than being decomposed into individual attributes. Some may find this hugely desirable, others again may yawn and pass on by. Either way, testing very welcome, I'd like to make this public in a few weeks. It has meant some scary structural changes to the code, and I am not 101% sure I have caught all the variations. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 10:00:03 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:00:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Possible TEI Council Meeting in Finland In-Reply-To: <8713164B-6D85-4742-BAAF-54579FEDC941@loria.fr> References: <493E9B44.6060106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <8713164B-6D85-4742-BAAF-54579FEDC941@loria.fr> Message-ID: <496CAC73.4040304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hi Laurent (and Council), The DECL project got in touch with me again to see if there was any more news, because I think they'd like to start planning a TEI day. -James Laurent Romary wrote: > That's a nice one. And I like our peripatetic nature... > We just have to wait and see whether the board agrees on us having two > meetings next year. > I will come back to this later, > Laurent > > Le 9 d?c. 08 ? 17:22, James Cummings a ?crit : > >> >> Hi there, >> >> While in Finland for Digital Humanities 2008 I talked with some of the >> members of the DECL project see >> http://www.helsinki.fi/varieng/domains/DECL.html for more information. >> When one of their number visited Oxford in the summer I met with him a >> couple of times to discuss their plans, processing models, TEI, etc. >> During which time I happened to mention the peripatetic nature of the >> TEI Council meetings and how we've been trying to encourage 'TEI Day' >> symposiums around them to increase TEI awareness. Ville has come back >> to me with the following expression of interest. >> >> Does anyone want me to follow it up, potentially for an Autumn 2009 >> meeting? >> >> -James >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Greetings from the DECL team >> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:50:49 +0200 >> From: Ville Marttila >> To: James Cummings >> >> Hi and Greetings from frosty Finland. >> >> We (the DECL team, i.e. myself, Samuli and Alpo) were having lunch the >> other week with Sakari Katajam?ki and Ossi Kokko from the Finnish EDITH >> project (http://www.edith.fi/english/), which aims at producing detailed >> criticalonline editions of Finnish literature classics and has chosen >> TEI as their encoding scheme. As we were discussing the emerging >> interest in TEI in Finland, I recalled you telling me in Oxford >> about the itinerant nature of TEI Council meetings. As I brought up the >> idea of offering to host one here in Helsinki, there was definite >> interest and strong belief that this could be done. And were there to be >> a presentation or two on some suitable topic by TEI experts from the >> council, this would offer an excellent chance to build a general >> get-together/seminar for TEI-interested parties in Finland around it. Is >> the TEI Council still open to having their meetings in far-away places >> such as Helsinki and giving a presentation or two while they are there? >> And how does the meeting schedule look; have venues for future meetings >> already been decided on? Next spring would probably be too soon >> for us to get things properly organised, but for autumn 2009 or spring >> 2010 we could very well be able to host a TEI Council meeting here in >> Helsinki. >> >> On behalf of the DECL and EDITH teams, >> Ville Marttila >> >> >> -- >> Ville Marttila, MA >> >> Research Unit for Variation, Contacts and Change in English >> Department of English >> University of Helsinki >> >> email: ville.marttila at helsinki.fi >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford >> James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 10:09:59 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:09:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] tei p5 next release Message-ID: <496CAEC7.7050605@oucs.ox.ac.uk> current state now on tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, in all its form, if you have anything you want to check. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 10:49:37 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:49:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] tei p5 next release In-Reply-To: <496CAEC7.7050605@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496CAEC7.7050605@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496CB811.6090003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > current state now on tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk, > in all its form, if you have anything you want to check. I know you don't want me to mention this but... Links have disappeared on the use-by, may contain, declaration and similar sections in the reference pages. Compare for example: http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/P5/Guidelines-web/en/html/ref-gap.html and http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-gap.html Only thing wrong I noticed in a quick glance. -James -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 10:56:28 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:56:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] tei p5 next release In-Reply-To: <496CB811.6090003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496CAEC7.7050605@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496CB811.6090003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496CB9AC.1070309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> James Cummings wrote: > > I know you don't want me to mention this I do! > Links have disappeared on the use-by, may contain, declaration and > similar sections in the reference pages. > interesting. well, fairly. I think I know what that I did to cause that, will see if I can undo. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 13 15:13:00 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:13:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] tei p5 next release In-Reply-To: <496CB811.6090003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496CAEC7.7050605@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496CB811.6090003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496CF5CC.2040402@oucs.ox.ac.uk> James Cummings wrote: > Links have disappeared on the use-by, may contain, declaration and > similar sections in the reference pages. > look now, should be OK. not sure what happened there, a build at the wrong time with the wrong XSL, I think. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 08:02:05 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:02:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? Message-ID: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> In what may turn out to be the first of a series, I'd like to canvas the Council's views on one of the knottier problems in the current selection of feature requests, which has also since turned up in other contexts. SF #195420 proposes that @role should be added/reinstated for all elements which are members of att.naming (in fact, I don't think it ever was available on names, though this may have been proposed before) Discounting its use to indicate the function of a cell in a table, or to name a character in a drama, at present @role is available only on , , , and (rather strangely) , where it can be used to specify "a primary role or classification for the x" (where x is person or org) or "the role of this group of participants in the interaction" (), or (perhaps rather strangely) "the nature of the intellectual responsibility" () Leaving aside for now the last case, the thinking behind this is the usual distinction between a NAME and a NAMED ENTITY. The NAMED ENTITY can have a role, but a NAME cannot. The role attribute answers the question "what is the function of this person in this context" not "what is this name doing in this context". A similar topic popped up with reference to geographical information on TEI-L recently -- belongs to not to . That's the current orthodoxy. However, all orthodoxies have to be challenged occasionally, and there are two disadvantages with this one a) one man in his time plays many roles (SHAKSPR) -- but @role is unitary. We have ways of recording that someone has been at various times a butcher, a baker, a candlestick maker etc. but no obvious way of saying that in the context where he's being named, it's as a ferret-wangler. b) the additional baggage of a record is not so easy to maintain, especially where we just want to say "this person name refers to some binder or other" without going to look up all the gory details in Wikipedia It's not hard to think of use-cases -- quite a few pop up in manuscript description. Maybe we should subvert @key for the purpose, but I can see the merit of the SF proposal before us as simpler and possibly more intuitive. What do you think? And, if you agree that this proposal should be implemented, what do you think we should do with the existing @role attributes? There's obvious scope for confusion if we retain them. Should they be removed? Maybe their function would be better served by using @type? (That certainly seems to be the case for the @role on -- which seems to have got itself confused with , but that's another story.) From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 08:12:27 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:12:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard Lou "Ferret Wangler" Burnard ?? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 14 08:38:20 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:38:20 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8F970F4C-2B51-46D0-89B5-9E704DDDBDFD@loria.fr> If I have understood Lou correctly we are not to take the second case into account, are we? (could you explain what a ferret-wangler is?) Le 14 janv. 09 ? 14:12, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > Lou Burnard > > Lou "Ferret Wangler" Burnard > > ?? > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 08:39:05 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:39:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard > > Lou "Ferret Wangler" Burnard > > ?? > well, exactly, that potential ambiguity is the problem. so should i chalk down your vote on the side of the orthodox? From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 14 08:46:08 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:46:08 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <23BF3B91-16AB-4D00-9068-6DE19F3ED5A3@loria.fr> I would say yes. I really see no reason to introduce such a semantic ambiguity on 'role'. But I must still read the FS content... Le 14 janv. 09 ? 14:39, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> Lou Burnard >> >> Lou "Ferret Wangler" Burnard >> >> ?? >> > > well, exactly, that potential ambiguity is the problem. > > so should i chalk down your vote on the side of the orthodox? > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 08:46:58 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:46:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <8F970F4C-2B51-46D0-89B5-9E704DDDBDFD@loria.fr> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <8F970F4C-2B51-46D0-89B5-9E704DDDBDFD@loria.fr> Message-ID: <496DECD2.4050706@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Laurent Romary wrote: > If I have understood Lou correctly we are not to take the second case > into account, are we? > (could you explain what a ferret-wangler is?) possibly someone who makes marmalade with ferrets; but essentially a made-up insult word. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 08:49:47 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:49:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496DED7B.1000509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > > so should i chalk down your vote on the side of the orthodox? If I had to choose now, yes. counter-proposals might include a new attribute persRole, and allowing inline for this purpose. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 09:09:11 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:09:11 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: SV: [Fwd: Anyone for roles?]] Message-ID: <496DF207.8010106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I took the liberty of copying my earlier message on this topic to an ex-council member who I know to have views on this issue. His comment is as follows -------- Original Message -------- Subject: SV: [Fwd: [tei-council] Anyone for roles?] Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:06:36 +0100 From: Matthew James Driscoll To: Lou Burnard References: <496DE28E.6040307 at oucs.ox.ac.uk> Did you mean to send this to me, give that I'm no longer on the council? Even if you didn't, I do have an opinion, one I think you know, which is that we need in context to be able to indicate that X is named here in his function as Y rather than Z. Whether we call it @role is another matter. I have always recognised the validity of the argument that says that the role of a name is to name things. Which is why I once upon a time suggested @persRole as the name of the attribute (which obviously wouldn't work for org etc.). Some other name perhaps: bit, business, capacity, function, guise, job, office, part, piece, position, post, posture, stint, task? Capacity's rather good, isn't it? Matthew -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Lou Burnard [mailto:lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk] Sendt: 14. januar 2009 14:03 Til: Matthew James Driscoll Emne: [Fwd: [tei-council] Anyone for roles?] From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 14 09:14:44 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:14:44 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: SV: [Fwd: Anyone for roles?]] In-Reply-To: <496DF207.8010106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DF207.8010106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1BF47DC2-C47A-46F1-BE78-AD1511D37153@loria.fr> Indeed. it clarifies the case; I like 'capacity' Le 14 janv. 09 ? 15:09, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > I took the liberty of copying my earlier message on this topic to an > ex-council member who I know to have views on this issue. His > comment is > as follows > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: SV: [Fwd: [tei-council] Anyone for roles?] > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:06:36 +0100 > From: Matthew James Driscoll > To: Lou Burnard > References: <496DE28E.6040307 at oucs.ox.ac.uk> > > Did you mean to send this to me, give that I'm no longer on the > council? > > Even if you didn't, I do have an opinion, one I think you know, > which is > that we need in context to be able to indicate that X is named here in > his function as Y rather than Z. Whether we call it @role is another > matter. I have always recognised the validity of the argument that > says > that the role of a name is to name things. Which is why I once upon a > time suggested @persRole as the name of the attribute (which obviously > wouldn't work for org etc.). Some other name perhaps: bit, business, > capacity, function, guise, job, office, part, piece, position, post, > posture, stint, task? Capacity's rather good, isn't it? > > Matthew > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: Lou Burnard [mailto:lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk] > Sendt: 14. januar 2009 14:03 > Til: Matthew James Driscoll > Emne: [Fwd: [tei-council] Anyone for roles?] > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 10:27:45 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:27:45 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] GREENies Message-ID: <496E0471.7040405@oucs.ox.ac.uk> As you'll recall, we have a nice colour coding system for feature requests. RED means "um dunno what to do about this, so we're not moving anywhere yet"; AMBER means "not quite sure which of several well-defined possibilities is right, but hope to reach consensus on one of them soon"; GREEN means "it's clear what's to be done: let's do it" I have now classified the following currently open feature requests as GREEN. Please could you take a quick look at them and squawk loudly if you disagree? 2494567 (add language documenting use of range() in preference to use of @targetEnd, deprecating the latter) 2411987 (remove @usage on ) 2242044 (introduce new element) 2216574 (introduce new class to supply @ed attribute) 2046508 (introduce new element) 2457147 (add non-numeric example of using ) My next task will be to trawl back through email for things that haven't yet been turned into feature requests. So there may be more to come... From pboot at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 14 14:47:16 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 20:47:16 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: SV: [Fwd: Anyone for roles?]] In-Reply-To: <1BF47DC2-C47A-46F1-BE78-AD1511D37153@loria.fr> References: <496DF207.8010106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1BF47DC2-C47A-46F1-BE78-AD1511D37153@loria.fr> Message-ID: <496E4144.5020206@xs4all.nl> Laurent Romary schreef: > Indeed. it clarifies the case; I like 'capacity' I don't like 'capacity'. It is a very vague word that says nothing about how we want to use it. How about objRole or refRole (= role of referred object)? But not being very conversant in manuscript description I would like to see a few examples, perhaps from James, of how the role attribute would be used. Peter From pboot at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 14 16:34:15 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:34:15 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] GREENies In-Reply-To: <496E0471.7040405@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496E0471.7040405@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496E5A57.4000402@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > 2494567 (add language documenting use of range() in preference to use of > @targetEnd, deprecating the latter) range() as the recommended way of doing things is OK, but deprecating @targetEnd seems too early (while there is no software that exploits the xpointer schemes). > 2242044 (introduce new element) The definition of locus says ?usually as a (possibly discontinuous) sequence of folio references.? The text of the Guidelines repeats this: ?Locations are conventionally specified as a sequence of folio or page numbers, but may also be a discontinuous list, or a combination of the two.? The example that Thorsten gives ?Bl. 13--26, 37--58, 82--96? could therefore be encoded as Bl. 13--26, 37--58, 82?96 So why do we need a locusGrp? Will we then also recommend not to use discontinuous loci? Will we provide guidance on when to use one locus, when multiple? I?m not against introducing the element but I would like to see something more specific before assenting to this one. Peter From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 18:03:37 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:03:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] GREENies In-Reply-To: <496E5A57.4000402@xs4all.nl> References: <496E0471.7040405@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496E5A57.4000402@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <496E6F49.7080408@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> 2494567 (add language documenting use of range() in preference to use of >> @targetEnd, deprecating the latter) > > range() as the recommended way of doing things is OK, but deprecating > @targetEnd seems too early (while there is no software that exploits the > xpointer schemes). +1 on that. seems to me that XPointer is probably the biggest failure of the XML family, and recommending use of something we can't implement is going back to the bad old days. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 14 18:07:21 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:07:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] GREENies In-Reply-To: <496E5A57.4000402@xs4all.nl> References: <496E0471.7040405@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496E5A57.4000402@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <496E7029.6080702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> 2494567 (add language documenting use of range() in preference to use of >> @targetEnd, deprecating the latter) > > range() as the recommended way of doing things is OK, but deprecating > @targetEnd seems too early (while there is no software that exploits the > xpointer schemes). > Fair enough. Though there isn't much software that exploits targetEnd either, of course. >> 2242044 (introduce new element) > > The definition of locus says ?usually as a (possibly discontinuous) > sequence of folio references.? The text of the Guidelines repeats this: > ?Locations are conventionally specified as a sequence of folio or page > numbers, but may also be a discontinuous list, or a combination of the > two.? > > The example that Thorsten gives ?Bl. 13--26, 37--58, 82--96? could > therefore be encoded as Bl. 13--26, 37--58, 82?96 > > So why do we need a locusGrp? Will we then also recommend not to use > discontinuous loci? Will we provide guidance on when to use one locus, > when multiple? > > I?m not against introducing the element but I would like to see > something more specific before assenting to this one. > Yes, I made the same point to Thorsten in discussion (or maybe not to him). I think the argument was just that some people do want to introduce some structure into the list. So that, for example, you can put pointers to page images on the relevant es. I don't think there is any suggestion that locuses cannot be discontinuous -- that would be silly. And I suppose the guidance would just be that you should be consistent. But I'm happy to reclassify this one as AMBER, and rescind the deprecation of targetEnd (personally, I think targetEnd is lovely) From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 12:49:26 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:49:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! Message-ID: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Currently sitting around for decision are the following eight (8) feature requests. These are all classed as AMBER because I think we ought to be able to reach a consensus on what needs doing fairly easily. In each case, the ticket proposes something, and in each case there is some comment either supporting or opposing the idea. 2493799 (add decoNote to model.noteLike) 2493417 ( coverage) 2411994 (canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions) 2242434 (element for text suppressed by the editor) 2209933 (content model of 'am') 2201246 ('term' should be a member of att.canonical) 2055891 (Placement of schematron rules) 1954920 (@role to be returned to att.naming) Could I ask for volunteers to help move these along? If each council member volunteered to take ONE of these, read the ticket, ponder the issues, and post a recommendation in the next few days -- say by 21 Jan -- we should be able to knock them all on the head in time for the next release. Then we could start arguing about the really tricky ones (the dreaded RED tickets)... Go on, you know you want to. Just let me know NOW which one you want to work on so we can avoid duplication of effort. First come, first served! From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 13:07:57 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:07:57 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Update on GREENery Message-ID: <496F7B7D.7000502@oucs.ox.ac.uk> As promised, I've now trawled back through TEI-L and TEI-Council lists in search of any new items. I found a couple of new greens: 2510582 @wit attribute to rdgDetail only allows a single sigil 2507349 suggested valList contains duplicates Furthermore, the following 2242044 introduce locusGrp and change msItem definition has been reclassified as AMBER, following some debate between Peter and Thorsten (visible on the ticket), so it should have appeared on my previous list of tickets-up-for-adoption. I propose to start implementing all the remaining GREENs without further ado. From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 15 14:56:14 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:56:14 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496F94DE.8050300@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > Could I ask for volunteers to help move these along? I'll take 2493417 ( coverage) Peter From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 17:23:38 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:23:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > 2055891 (Placement of schematron rules) sorry, I should have worked on this ages ago. but whichever way, we can't fix this for the upcoming release, the changes would be too widespread. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 17:24:47 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:24:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: > >> 2055891 (Placement of schematron rules) > > sorry, I should have worked on this ages ago. > but whichever way, we can't fix this for the upcoming > release, the changes would be too widespread. > We could at least come to a decision as to what the right solution is, and even maybe try it out? Or are you saying that this should be RED ? From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 17:30:32 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:30:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > > We could at least come to a decision as to what the right solution is, > and even maybe try it out? sure, but this is the worst time to do that, when we are tidying up for a release, no? > Or are you saying that this should be RED ? by your criteria, yes, since there isn't a final proposal -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 18:03:33 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:03:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: > >> >> We could at least come to a decision as to what the right solution is, >> and even maybe try it out? > > sure, but this is the worst time to do that, > when we are tidying up for a release, no? > >> Or are you saying that this should be RED ? > > by your criteria, yes, since there isn't a final proposal > > You want to propose some other criteria maybe? I just think we'll never get anywhere with this until someone makes a specific proposal as to which of the various possibilities sketched out on the ticket is to be preferred. Just edging ever such a teeny bit further along the path towards a decision point would count as progress in my book. From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 15 18:25:29 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 23:25:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> Message-ID: <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Here are the changes I propose to make in the suggested values of the @place attribute. Bear in mind that these are only suggested values, and that no TEI schema enforces any of them. On the left is the original: on the right, my proposed replacement infralinear -> below margin-bot -> page-foot margin-left -> left margin-right -> right margin-top -> page-top opposite -> opposite overleaf -> overleaf supralinear -> above verso -> [remove: same as overleaf, sometimes] app -> [remove: this is not a place] end -> end foot -> [remove: same as page-foot] inline -> inline interlinear -> [remove: the note *must* be either below or above the point in the text where it appears ] inline -> [inspace] mixed -> [remove: the attribute permits multiple values] Laurent Romary wrote: > Yes. please. come with a comprehensive proposal there! > Laurent > > Le 7 janv. 09 ? 13:14, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > >> Lou Burnard wrote: >>> Looking at this more closely, it's clear that the suggested value >>> list has been >>> made by simply merging previously existing (but on different >>> attributes) lists, >>> with no attempt to rationalise any resulting inconsistency. >> and indeed Syd admits as much. its been that way >> for years, sadly, without any of us noticing. I am >> wondering about checking for others like this. >>> However it clearly needs a major overhaul. I'm willing to propose a >>> candidate >>> replacement, if no-one else does. >>> >> i suggest you just do it, since (as you say) >> its advisory only. >> >> -- >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services >> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Jan 15 21:57:47 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:57:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Anyone for roles? In-Reply-To: <496DED7B.1000509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496DE24D.1000205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DE4BB.7040504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DEAF9.7030100@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496DED7B.1000509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I haven't had a lot of occasion to use elements in att.naming, but it seems to me that for the majority of them (cf. http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/P5/Guidelines-web/en/html/ref-att.naming.html), a @role attribute is at best unnecessary and at worst confusing. I would vote "orthodox" on that account. On Wed, 14 Jan 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: >> >> so should i chalk down your vote on the side of the orthodox? > If I had to choose now, yes. counter-proposals > might include a new attribute persRole, and > allowing inline for this purpose. > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Jan 15 22:39:31 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:39:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Lou Burnard wrote: > 2411994 (canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions) I will volunteer for this one, as I have spent some time in the past researching DOIs and am reasonably familiar with the implications and potential complications of going that route. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 04:09:22 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:09:22 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49704EC2.9030509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > Here are the changes I propose to make in the suggested values of the > @place attribute. Bear in mind that these are only suggested values, > and that no TEI schema enforces any of them. You are implying to Dot on TEI-L that you want to change the datatype to permit multiple values. That seems a bit worrying to me: it looks odd to say that something can have two places, and it affects people whose tools assume that there is only one value for the attribute. I'd have thought this is going beyond corrigle error? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 04:12:16 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:12:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > margin-bot -> page-foot > margin-left -> left > margin-right -> right > margin-top -> page-top why not left, right, top, bottom, as per (eg) CSS names? the "page-" is open to the question "what if I have multiple columns, does that mean the bottom of the page or the bottom of the column?" bottom and top leaves it open :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 04:17:25 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:17:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > I just think we'll never get anywhere with this until someone makes a > specific proposal as to which of the various possibilities sketched out > on the ticket is to be preferred. Just edging ever such a teeny bit > further along the path towards a decision point would count as progress > in my book. no disagreement there. but you may be forgetting that we discussed this in October (see http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/tcm40.xml) and came to firmer conclusions than are mentioned in the ticket. The decision was to add a new element. There is an action on me before the next council meeting to "prepare a draft proposal, including examples (possibly drawn from the many places in the Guidelines where we say: do this in such and such a way, even though it cannot, as yet, be enforced)" as ever, time constraints have intervened. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 04:48:32 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:48:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <247A24AA-EAE5-4AAE-AC7C-41B7CDBCF9DB@kcl.ac.uk> I can do this: > 2242434 (element for text suppressed by the editor) Elena -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 05:42:41 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:42:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49704EC2.9030509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704EC2.9030509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497064A1.50705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > You are implying to Dot on TEI-L that you want to change > the datatype to permit multiple values. That seems a bit worrying to > me: it looks odd to say that something can have two places, > and it affects people whose tools assume that there is only > one value for the attribute. I'd have thought this is going beyond > corrigle error? > Hm, fair point. The original version had "mixed" for the case where something was in more than one place (e.g. in the margin and straying onto the facing page). Maybe I should reinstate that. But Dot's question was (in part) "so how do I say which places if it is mixed?" We could say that you have to say something like "left+facing" (i.e. make up your own syntax) I suppose, but why not use the syntax XML already gives us? From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 05:52:53 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:52:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <497064A1.50705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704EC2.9030509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497064A1.50705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49706705.8000801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > But Dot's question > was (in part) "so how do I say which places if it is mixed?" We could > say that you have to say something like "left+facing" (i.e. make up your > own syntax) I suppose, but why not use the syntax XML already gives us? yes, it probably _is_ sensible. I'm just being a bit formal here in suggesting that a change to the schema like this is edging near Birnbaum territory. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 05:54:53 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:54:53 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4970677D.2080105@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: > >> margin-bot -> page-foot >> margin-left -> left >> margin-right -> right >> margin-top -> page-top > > why not left, right, top, bottom, as per (eg) CSS names? > the "page-" is open to the question "what if I have multiple > columns, does that mean the bottom of the page or the bottom > of the column?" bottom and top leaves it open :-} > Hmm... wonder why you mention CSS :-) Yes. The original made a subtle distinction between "at the foot of the page in a separate block" and "in the bottom margin of the page". I think I agree with your proposal that the suggested values should not be so super-subtle. From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 16 05:57:15 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:57:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4970680B.5030609@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Thanks for reminding me to check out the minutes for other possible additions/updates to the SF tickets. I will do that later today. On this particular one, though, a quick glance at the minute suggests that this particular issue is now GREEN, in as much as Council has agreed on what needs to be done. We're just waiting for you to engage clutch, accelerate gently, and release the hand brake. Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: > >> I just think we'll never get anywhere with this until someone makes a >> specific proposal as to which of the various possibilities sketched >> out on the ticket is to be preferred. Just edging ever such a teeny >> bit further along the path towards a decision point would count as >> progress in my book. > > no disagreement there. > > but you may be forgetting that we discussed this in October > (see http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/Council/Meetings/tcm40.xml) > and came to firmer conclusions than are mentioned in the ticket. > The decision was to add a new element. > > There is an action on me before the next council meeting to "prepare a > draft proposal, including examples (possibly drawn from the many places > in the Guidelines where we say: do this in such and such a way, even > though it cannot, as yet, be enforced)" > > as ever, time constraints have intervened. > From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 11:24:55 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:24:55 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Amber updates Message-ID: <4974A957.2010905@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I've now got ONLY THREE unallocated amber items 2493799 (add decoNote to model.noteLike) 2201246 ('term' should be a member of att.canonical) 1954920 (@role to be returned to att.naming) I haven't heard from FIVE members of council yet (you know you are) -- but I have received FIVE splendid volunteers (ditto), so I believe we're making progress. Onward and upward! Just a reminder: please get your recommendations on these items out to the list by this coming Wednesday, if possible. From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 12:08:18 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:08:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Amber updates In-Reply-To: <4974A957.2010905@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4974A957.2010905@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974B382.9090607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > I've now got ONLY THREE unallocated amber items > > 2493799 (add decoNote to model.noteLike) > 2201246 ('term' should be a member of att.canonical) > 1954920 (@role to be returned to att.naming) > > I haven't heard from FIVE members of council yet (you know you are) -- > but I have received FIVE splendid volunteers (ditto), so I believe we're > making progress. Onward and upward! Sorry for the delay in responding (away and ill, followed by being ill and away). I'll volunteer for 2493799 (decoNote). I feel that is the only one of these left that I can volunteer for since I originated the other two and thus it might be a conflict of interest. ;-) -James > Just a reminder: please get your recommendations on these items out to > the list by this coming Wednesday, if possible. > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 12:46:47 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:46:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I agree with Sebastian's suggestion below. Does anyone else have any other comment on the list of changes I proposed 4 days ago for this value list? If not, I'm going ahead with it. Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: > >> margin-bot -> page-foot >> margin-left -> left >> margin-right -> right >> margin-top -> page-top > > why not left, right, top, bottom, as per (eg) CSS names? > the "page-" is open to the question "what if I have multiple > columns, does that mean the bottom of the page or the bottom > of the column?" bottom and top leaves it open :-} > From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 12:57:31 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:57:31 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> It seems reasonable to me to mimic the CSS names for locating things. I dislike adding in 'page-' to anything since we might not be encoding pages (e.g. text on walls, or inscribed around the bottom of a bell). -James Lou Burnard wrote: > I agree with Sebastian's suggestion below. > > Does anyone else have any other comment on the list of changes I > proposed 4 days ago for this value list? > > If not, I'm going ahead with it. > > > Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> Lou Burnard wrote: >> >>> margin-bot -> page-foot >>> margin-left -> left >>> margin-right -> right >>> margin-top -> page-top >> why not left, right, top, bottom, as per (eg) CSS names? >> the "page-" is open to the question "what if I have multiple >> columns, does that mean the bottom of the page or the bottom >> of the column?" bottom and top leaves it open :-} >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 15:31:15 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:31:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: SV: [Fwd: Anyone for roles?]] In-Reply-To: <496E4144.5020206@xs4all.nl> References: <496DF207.8010106@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1BF47DC2-C47A-46F1-BE78-AD1511D37153@loria.fr> <496E4144.5020206@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4974E313.9000702@kcl.ac.uk> I think 'capacity' is too vague too and wouldn't work for other named entities (the capacity of a place has a completely different meaning!), so I would go for refRole too or function. Arianna Peter Boot wrote: > Laurent Romary schreef: >> Indeed. it clarifies the case; I like 'capacity' > > I don't like 'capacity'. It is a very vague word that says nothing about > how we want to use it. How about objRole or refRole (= role of referred > object)? > > But not being very conversant in manuscript description I would like to > see a few examples, perhaps from James, of how the role attribute would > be used. > > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 16:00:02 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:00:02 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> I agree with James: no 'page' please. I am sorry to loose 'margin' (may be overused in the manuscript world but it seems to mean much more when added to 'left' or 'right'). I would loose 'overleaf' and keep 'verso' but again I may be manuscript-biased here. Arianna James Cummings wrote: > It seems reasonable to me to mimic the CSS names for locating things. I > dislike adding in 'page-' to anything since we might not be encoding > pages (e.g. text on walls, or inscribed around the bottom of a bell). > > -James > > Lou Burnard wrote: >> I agree with Sebastian's suggestion below. >> >> Does anyone else have any other comment on the list of changes I >> proposed 4 days ago for this value list? >> >> If not, I'm going ahead with it. >> >> >> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> Lou Burnard wrote: >>> >>>> margin-bot -> page-foot >>>> margin-left -> left >>>> margin-right -> right >>>> margin-top -> page-top >>> why not left, right, top, bottom, as per (eg) CSS names? >>> the "page-" is open to the question "what if I have multiple >>> columns, does that mean the bottom of the page or the bottom >>> of the column?" bottom and top leaves it open :-} >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 16:00:58 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:00:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974EA0A.8070007@kcl.ac.uk> Been ill and away, now still away and less ill... I would have volunteered for the 'term' issue, but I won't be able to look at it seriously before the last week of January. Arianna Lou Burnard wrote: > Currently sitting around for decision are the following eight (8) > feature requests. These are all classed as AMBER because I think we > ought to be able to reach a consensus on what needs doing fairly easily. > In each case, the ticket proposes something, and in each case there is > some comment either supporting or opposing the idea. > > 2493799 (add decoNote to model.noteLike) > 2493417 ( coverage) > 2411994 (canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions) > 2242434 (element for text suppressed by the editor) > 2209933 (content model of 'am') > 2201246 ('term' should be a member of att.canonical) > 2055891 (Placement of schematron rules) > 1954920 (@role to be returned to att.naming) > > Could I ask for volunteers to help move these along? If each council > member volunteered to take ONE of these, read the ticket, ponder the > issues, and post a recommendation in the next few days -- say by 21 Jan > -- we should be able to knock them all on the head in time for the next > release. Then we could start arguing about the really tricky ones (the > dreaded RED tickets)... > > Go on, you know you want to. Just let me know NOW which one you want to > work on so we can avoid duplication of effort. First come, first served! > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 17:08:04 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:08:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974F9C4.9040705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Arianna Ciula wrote: > I agree with James: no 'page' please. > > I am sorry to loose 'margin' (may be overused in the manuscript world > but it seems to mean much more when added to 'left' or 'right'). so "margin-{left,right,top,bottom}" fine by me. thats closer to CSS even -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 17:33:04 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:33:04 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4974FFA0.4030503@oucs.ox.ac.uk> > I would loose 'overleaf' and keep 'verso' but again I may be > manuscript-biased here. But if you're on the verso side of a leaf, and you say the annotation is on the "verso", what does it mean? "overleaf" is at least unambiguous! From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 19 17:34:44 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:34:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place In-Reply-To: <4974F9C4.9040705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <96f3df640901061438t72d8b37dgd88fb3b560af110b@mail.gmail.com> <4964799D.5050309@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49648882.8090409@kcl.ac.uk> <496494B5.9040403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49649773.1010505@kcl.ac.uk> <20090107121210.C38E88B82@webmail221.herald.ox.ac.uk> <49649CBC.5030005@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <99E83EFC-2CAF-43C0-A9AC-5E6DBD4D846E@loria.fr> <496FC5E9.5080003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49704F70.9070307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BC87.8020506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974BF0B.2060205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4974E9D2.7080904@kcl.ac.uk> <4974F9C4.9040705@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49750004.5090607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Arianna Ciula wrote: >> I agree with James: no 'page' please. >> >> I am sorry to loose 'margin' (may be overused in the manuscript world >> but it seems to mean much more when added to 'left' or 'right'). > > > so "margin-{left,right,top,bottom}" fine by me. thats closer to CSS even > how about just plain old "margin" (or "margins")? don't forget -- this is only a list of suggestions. if you want to be more precise, you can always extend it. From pboot at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 21 16:44:24 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:44:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 Message-ID: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> I just added the following comment to SF feature request 2493417. I cc this to Syd and Kevin, as their postings show some interest in the issue. Peter SF 2493417 consists of two parts. The first part asks for some extra examples that show idno's are not necessarily numeric. Syd provided some examples in SF bug 2457147. The second part of the feature request requests of that we 'extend its scope so that it can treat unique identifiers for core components of a bibliographical reference, in particular, authors (it should thus be part of the content model of among others'. The rest of this comment discusses that second request. It is clear there are many advantages to unique identification of scholarly authors: finding an author?s other articles, finding an author?s current affiliation, relating non-article publications (weblog entries, etc.) all require some more robust way of identifying a person than by name. An illustration of that fact is given by [1]: the Mathematical Reviews author database contains 32 authors called "Wang, Wei" with no additional names. For more literature, see [2, 3, 4]. It should therefore be possible to identify scholarly authors by something other than their name. There exist, perhaps unfortunately, several initiatives to assign unique id's to scholarly authors, such as Researcher ID (http://www.researcherid.com/) and Digital Author Identifier (http://www.surffoundation.nl/smartsite.dws?ch=ENG&id=13480). Others have argued researchers should be identified through their OpenID accounts (http://openid.net/). National libraries have their (overlapping) authority files. There exists an upcoming ISO standard for identifying names/entities: International Standard Name Identifier (http://www.isni.org/). Elsevier has its Scopus id?s. It should be possible to store these author identifiers in (TEI) bibliographies. We could achieve that effect in a number of ways: (1) use @key on an ?s (2) use @ref on an ?s (3) add to att.canonical and use @key or @ref on (4) create a new element and add it to ?s content model (5) extend the scope of the existing element and add to ?s content model Any solution will however have to cater for the fact that authors may have multiple digital author identifiers, corresponding to different scheme?s. E.g.: - an International Standard Name Identifier might one day look like urn:isni:12341234 - a researcher id looks like C-1234-2008 or http://www.researcherid.com/rid/ C-1234-2008 - a Dutch DAI looks like: info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 - an open id might look like: https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 This means that any solutions that rely on attributes will either need to somehow store the identification scheme in the attribute, or have to rely on parsing the value to guess what scheme is applicable. @key has the added problem that it holds by definition only one value, so even if key="researcherid:C-1234-2008" would work, it could not at the same time hold the International Standard Name Identifier for the researcher. @ref could hold multiple values, but must contain uri?s; we could have ref="info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" but then software would have to guess what scheme is applicable. This implies that for a robust solution we need a repeatable element that stores the identifier?s scheme as a type or scheme attribute, and the value either as text or as a value attribute. We can either create a new element for the purpose, e.g. , or reuse an existing element. The proposal here is to use the existing element. The need to identify authors is exactly analogous to the need to identify bibliographic elements such as articles or monographs, the element has already an appropriately generic name, and I see no reason why not to use it. This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries mailing list (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774), a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always had, it would just be applied to new elements. This would involve: - changing the definition of idno from ?supplies any standard or non-standard number used to identify a bibliographic item? to e.g. ?supplies any standard or non-standard number used to identify bibliographic elements? - adding to ?s content model, presumably as its first element. We could then have e.g. info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 John Doe [1] TePaske-King, B. and Richert, N. (2001), 'The identification of authors in the Mathematical Reviews Database', Issues in Science and Technology Librarianship, 31. [2] Bourne, Philip E. and Fink, J. Lynn (2008), 'I Am Not a Scientist, I Am a Number', PLoS Computational Biology, 4 (12), e1000247. [3] Danskin, Alan, et al. (2008), 'A review of the current landscape in relation to a proposed Name Authority Service for UK repositories of research outputs', (JISC). [4] Cals, J. W. L. and Kotz, D. (2008), 'Researcher identification: the right needle in the haystack', The Lancet, 371 (9631), 2152-53. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 21 16:55:52 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:55:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] roma validating Message-ID: <497799E8.9030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I have changed the Roma at http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/Roma/ to validate the ODD file when you try to make a schema. If anyone things this may affect them, please give it a try. It is designed to deal with the situation where people change the element of an and get in a mess. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 21 17:11:34 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:11:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: >This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries > mailing list > (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774), > a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always had, it > would just be applied to new elements. That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of "name applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an identifier for a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They do not (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of one! By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), if we want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major change in the meaning of this element. From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 21 23:22:17 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:22:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> Hi all, Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has the property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly in the encoding practices that lay behind the use of for other bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does not sit around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing one to identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same argument to mean that an author identifier groups all papers from one author). Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. Laurent Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Peter Boot wrote: >> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >> mailing list >> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774 >> ), >> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always >> had, it >> would just be applied to new elements. > > That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! > We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of "name > applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a > vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. > > Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an identifier > for > a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They do > not > (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of one! > By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), if > we > want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major change > in the meaning of this element. > > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 04:04:01 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:04:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> Message-ID: <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the existing proposal certainly does break current encoding practice.My understanding is that the current proposal would include the new as a child of , title etc. Please tell me I am wrong if that is not the case! If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify the source for the associated range of keyv values, why not propose an additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That would integrate very nicely with current practice, avoid duplication, and add a useful new feature. , Laurent Romary wrote: > Hi all, > Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has the > property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly in the > encoding practices that lay behind the use of for other > bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does not sit > around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing one to > identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same argument to mean > that an author identifier groups all papers from one author). > Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. > Laurent > > Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > >> Peter Boot wrote: >>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>> mailing list >>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774), >>> >>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always had, it >>> would just be applied to new elements. >> >> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of "name >> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a >> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >> >> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an identifier for >> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They do not >> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of one! >> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), if we >> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major change >> in the meaning of this element. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Jan 22 04:12:09 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:12:09 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: By "not breaking", I mean that it does not create any backward uncompatibility for previous usages of . On the contrary, for those used to having at hand, it should be fairly straightforward to apply it to the author case. Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:04, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the > existing proposal certainly does break current encoding practice.My > understanding is that the current proposal would include the new > as a child of , title etc. Please tell me I am wrong > if that is not the case! > > If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an > identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify the > source for the associated range of keyv values, why not propose an > additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That would integrate > very nicely with current practice, avoid duplication, and add a > useful new feature. > > > > , Laurent Romary wrote: >> Hi all, >> Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has the >> property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly in the >> encoding practices that lay behind the use of for other >> bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does not sit >> around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing one to >> identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same argument to >> mean that an author identifier groups all papers from one author). >> Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. >> Laurent >> Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> Peter Boot wrote: >>>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>>> mailing list >>>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774 >>>> ), >>>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always >>>> had, it >>>> would just be applied to new elements. >>> >>> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >>> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of >>> "name >>> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a >>> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >>> >>> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an >>> identifier for >>> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They >>> do not >>> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of >>> one! >>> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), >>> if we >>> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major >>> change >>> in the meaning of this element. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Jan 22 04:14:20 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:14:20 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: The other (important) argument is that we need to have more then one for one author (cf. examples provided by Peter). Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:04, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the > existing proposal certainly does break current encoding practice.My > understanding is that the current proposal would include the new > as a child of , title etc. Please tell me I am wrong > if that is not the case! > > If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an > identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify the > source for the associated range of keyv values, why not propose an > additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That would integrate > very nicely with current practice, avoid duplication, and add a > useful new feature. > > > > , Laurent Romary wrote: >> Hi all, >> Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has the >> property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly in the >> encoding practices that lay behind the use of for other >> bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does not sit >> around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing one to >> identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same argument to >> mean that an author identifier groups all papers from one author). >> Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. >> Laurent >> Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> Peter Boot wrote: >>>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>>> mailing list >>>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774 >>>> ), >>>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always >>>> had, it >>>> would just be applied to new elements. >>> >>> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >>> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of >>> "name >>> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a >>> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >>> >>> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an >>> identifier for >>> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They >>> do not >>> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of >>> one! >>> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), >>> if we >>> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major >>> change >>> in the meaning of this element. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 04:30:38 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:30:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Yes, apologies for forgetting that! it is a strong argument for not using @key in this case, I agree. But I remain unhappy with the idea of introducing additional elements inside what is basically a text only element like . Another possibility I suppose might be to put all the s for an item together, outside or ? Laurent Romary wrote: > The other (important) argument is that we need to have more then one > for one author (cf. examples provided by Peter). > > Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:04, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > >> Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the >> existing proposal certainly does break current encoding practice.My >> understanding is that the current proposal would include the new >> as a child of , title etc. Please tell me I am wrong if >> that is not the case! >> >> If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an >> identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify the >> source for the associated range of keyv values, why not propose an >> additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That would integrate >> very nicely with current practice, avoid duplication, and add a useful >> new feature. >> >> >> >> , Laurent Romary wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has the >>> property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly in the >>> encoding practices that lay behind the use of for other >>> bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does not sit >>> around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing one to >>> identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same argument to >>> mean that an author identifier groups all papers from one author). >>> Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. >>> Laurent >>> Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>> Peter Boot wrote: >>>>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>>>> mailing list >>>>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774), >>>>> >>>>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it always >>>>> had, it >>>>> would just be applied to new elements. >>>> >>>> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >>>> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of "name >>>> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a >>>> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >>>> >>>> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an identifier for >>>> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They do not >>>> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy of one! >>>> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors (etc), if we >>>> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major change >>>> in the meaning of this element. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Jan 22 04:38:27 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:38:27 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: As a matter of fat, we speak of application where is not a text only element. The standard case would be a descrtion provided by a publisher (I have tons of example in the context of the EU PEER project) or a publication repository, namely: 12345xx79 Laurent Romary Max Planck Digital Library
Invalidenstr. 35 10115 Berlin Deutschland
... at ... Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:30, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Yes, apologies for forgetting that! it is a strong argument for not > using @key in this case, I agree. But I remain unhappy with the idea > of introducing additional elements inside what is basically a text > only element like . Another possibility I suppose might be to > put all the s for an item together, outside or > ? > > Laurent Romary wrote: >> The other (important) argument is that we need to have more then >> one for one author (cf. examples provided by Peter). >> Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:04, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the >>> existing proposal certainly does break current encoding >>> practice.My understanding is that the current proposal would >>> include the new as a child of , title etc. Please >>> tell me I am wrong if that is not the case! >>> >>> If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an >>> identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify >>> the source for the associated range of keyv values, why not >>> propose an additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That >>> would integrate very nicely with current practice, avoid >>> duplication, and add a useful new feature. >>> >>> >>> >>> , Laurent Romary wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has >>>> the property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly >>>> in the encoding practices that lay behind the use of for >>>> other bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does >>>> not sit around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing >>>> one to identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same >>>> argument to mean that an author identifier groups all papers from >>>> one author). >>>> Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. >>>> Laurent >>>> Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>>> Peter Boot wrote: >>>>>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>>>>> mailing list >>>>>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774 >>>>>> ), >>>>>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it >>>>>> always had, it >>>>>> would just be applied to new elements. >>>>> >>>>> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >>>>> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of >>>>> "name >>>>> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied to a >>>>> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >>>>> >>>>> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an >>>>> identifier for >>>>> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They >>>>> do not >>>>> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy >>>>> of one! >>>>> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors >>>>> (etc), if we >>>>> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major >>>>> change >>>>> in the meaning of this element. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Jan 22 04:41:04 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:41:04 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: And my apologies for the huge amount of typos in my messages... Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:38, Laurent Romary a ?crit : > As a matter of fat, we speak of application where is not a > text only element. The standard case would be a descrtion provided by > a publisher (I have tons of example in the context of the EU PEER > project) or a publication repository, namely: > > > 12345xx79 > > Laurent > > Romary > > > > Max Planck Digital Library orgName> > >
> > Invalidenstr. 35 > > 10115 > > Berlin > > Deutschland > >
> > ... at ... > > > > > > > Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:30, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > >> Yes, apologies for forgetting that! it is a strong argument for not >> using @key in this case, I agree. But I remain unhappy with the idea >> of introducing additional elements inside what is basically a text >> only element like . Another possibility I suppose might be to >> put all the s for an item together, outside or >> ? >> >> Laurent Romary wrote: >>> The other (important) argument is that we need to have more then >>> one for one author (cf. examples provided by Peter). >>> Le 22 janv. 09 ? 10:04, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>> Sorry to be picky, but if I have understood it correctly, the >>>> existing proposal certainly does break current encoding >>>> practice.My understanding is that the current proposal would >>>> include the new as a child of , title etc. Please >>>> tell me I am wrong if that is not the case! >>>> >>>> If the only argument against using the existing @key to provide an >>>> identifier of this kind is that it does not allow you to specify >>>> the source for the associated range of keyv values, why not >>>> propose an additional @keySource attribute to att.naming? That >>>> would integrate very nicely with current practice, avoid >>>> duplication, and add a useful new feature. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> , Laurent Romary wrote: >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> Whether or not it is a major semantic shift, the proposal has >>>>> the property not to break existing usage and integrate smoothly >>>>> in the encoding practices that lay behind the use of for >>>>> other bibliographical component (note that an ISSN reference does >>>>> not sit around on a shelf either: its an abstract entity allowing >>>>> one to identify groups of publications ) one culd use the same >>>>> argument to mean that an author identifier groups all papers from >>>>> one author). >>>>> Anyhow, I fully support Peter's argumentation. >>>>> Laurent >>>>> Le 21 janv. 09 ? 23:11, Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>>>> Peter Boot wrote: >>>>>>> This does not involve, as Syd wrote on the TEI in Libraries >>>>>>> mailing list >>>>>>> (https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0901B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=2774 >>>>>>> ), >>>>>>> a ?semantic shift?: would have the same meaning it >>>>>>> always had, it >>>>>>> would just be applied to new elements. >>>>>> >>>>>> That is *precisely* what I would consider to be a semantic shift! >>>>>> We have an element called "persName" which has the semantics of >>>>>> "name >>>>>> applied to a person". If we redefine it to mean "name applied >>>>>> to a >>>>>> vegetable", it's still a name, but its semantics have changed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Similarly the current meaning of is that it's "an >>>>>> identifier for >>>>>> a bibliographic item". Authors are not bibliographic items. They >>>>>> do not >>>>>> (usually) sit around on shelves, and you cannot ask for a copy >>>>>> of one! >>>>>> By all means let's expand its semantics to include authors >>>>>> (etc), if we >>>>>> want to do that, but let's not pretend we're not making a major >>>>>> change >>>>>> in the meaning of this element. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 11:48:58 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:48:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] repetition in the description of @place Message-ID: <4978A37A.6090906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I've just added the following comment to ticket 2507349, and am now proceeding apace to implement it. Always time to revert it if you really don't like it, but I think this is now pretty non-controversial. ----------- Reviewing this, it is clearly intended only as a list of suggestions to indicate how the attribute should be used. As such it should not aim to be too delicate, nor cater for every possibility: users will want to specialise it to their own requirements. Consequently, I propose to simplify the list considerably. On the left is the original: on the right, the suggested value now proposed. infralinear -> below margin-bot -> page-foot -> bottom margin-left -> left -> margin margin-right -> right -> margin margin-top -> page-top -> top opposite -> opposite overleaf -> overleaf supralinear -> above verso -> [remove: same as overleaf, sometimes] app -> [remove: this is not a place] end -> end foot -> [remove: same as bottom] inline -> inline interlinear -> [remove: the note *must* be either below or above the point in the text where it appears ] inline -> [inspace] mixed -> [remove: the attribute permits multiple values] From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 22 12:24:24 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:24:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > But I remain unhappy with the idea of > introducing additional elements inside what is basically a text only > element like . Another possibility I suppose might be to > put all the s for an item together, outside or ? Yes we could. But that would imply the need to relate somehow the and the corresponding (there might be multiple authors), perhaps like this: info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 John Doe which is possible but, to my eyes, less pretty than info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 John Doe From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 12:44:18 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:44:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> But I remain unhappy with the idea of introducing additional elements >> inside what is basically a text only element like . Another >> possibility I suppose might be to >> put all the s for an item together, outside or >> ? > > Yes we could. But that would imply the need to relate somehow the > and the corresponding (there might be multiple authors), > perhaps like this: > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 > > > John Doe > > why not the other way round? but i agree, this is not very pretty. it's also fairly unlikely that anyone would want to implement it. However, I don't understand why you need to link the idno to the name in any case. The idno is supposed to be a pointer to an authoritative source which presumably would give you the right name anyway. Suppose we have a work by John and Jane Doe, who each have an openIds, while only John has bothered to get a "nldai", whdere's the ambiguity in John and Jane Doe info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 https://me.yahoo.com/janedoe42 We're using the idno to provide an additional access point for the work, right? so that we can recover all the works in which the right John Doe had a finger. > which is possible but, to my eyes, less pretty than > > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 > John Doe > > > I don't like this because of the mixed content. Call me old fashioned, but mixed content makes me feel queasy. From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 22 13:37:01 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:37:01 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978BCCD.20001@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > Peter Boot wrote: >> info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 >> https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 >> >> >> John Doe >> >> > (...) > However, I don't understand why you need to link the idno to the name in > any case. The idno is supposed to be a pointer to an authoritative > source which presumably would give you the right name anyway. Implying we could dispense with the author element altogether? Or perhaps have an author element with an idno as its only content. But then the TEI processing applications would have to know how to get at that name. > Suppose we have a work by John and Jane Doe, who each have an openIds, > while only John has bothered to get a "nldai", whdere's the ambiguity in > > John and Jane Doe > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 > https://me.yahoo.com/janedoe42 > > We're using the idno to provide an additional access point for the work, > right? so that we can recover all the works in which the right John > Doe had a finger. Depends on what you want to do with the data. I was thinking of a situation where the presentation application wants to show, with each author, a hyperlink to his/her entry in the identification system. From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 22 14:30:59 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:30:59 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] roma validating In-Reply-To: <497799E8.9030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <497799E8.9030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978C973.7040600@xs4all.nl> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > I have changed the Roma at http://tei.oucs.ox.ac.uk/Roma/ to validate > the ODD file when you try to make a schema. If anyone things this > may affect them, please give it a try. It is designed to deal with > the situation where people change the element of an > and get in a mess. I was the one that asked for this (having gotten into that mess twice). Thanks. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 15:25:29 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:25:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: >> >> >> info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 >> https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 >> John Doe >> >> >> > > I don't like this because of the mixed content. Call me old fashioned, > but mixed content makes me feel queasy. I am certainly with you there. but presumably one would have to mandate .... John Doe I must say, I much prefer the formulation of info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 John Doe (or whatever) because every bibliography I see has the same author several times, and I really don't want to have a repeated in several elements. It's just Wrong. Similarly, I don't want to repeat the same info in every file. If an author has an openid, I want that recorded once, and referred to many times. just call me an old-fashioned database guy. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Jan 22 15:55:18 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:55:18 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Le 22 janv. 09 ? 21:25, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > Lou Burnard wrote: > >>> >>> >>> info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 >>> https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 >>> John Doe >>> >>> >>> >> >> I don't like this because of the mixed content. Call me old >> fashioned, >> but mixed content makes me feel queasy. > > I am certainly with you there. but presumably one would have to > mandate > > .... > John Doe > Fully agree (and with Lou concerning mixed content): we should try to enforce this. > > > I must say, I much prefer the formulation of > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 > > > John Doe > > > (or whatever) You should not have some prejudice as to what scenario a user has in mind. We need to provide both ways. When a bibliographical reference comes in the header of a scientific paper or as an export from a publication archive, you don't want to reconstruct the information by following links here and there. You need self-contained 's > > > because every bibliography I see has the same author several times, > and I really don't want to have a repeated in several > elements. It's just Wrong. > > Similarly, I don't want to repeat the same info in every file. If > an author has an openid, I want that recorded once, and referred > to many times. > > just call me an old-fashioned database guy. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > S?lo le pido a Dios > que el futuro no me sea indiferente > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Jan 22 15:57:24 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:57:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978DDB4.4020403@xs4all.nl> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > because every bibliography I see has the same author several times, > and I really don't want to have a repeated in several > elements. It's just Wrong. > > Similarly, I don't want to repeat the same info in every file. If > an author has an openid, I want that recorded once, and referred > to many times. > > just call me an old-fashioned database guy. I won't call anyone old-fashioned. I used to be a database administrator. I see what you mean. Repeating data is wrong, yes, but is an openid data? It's really only a pointer to the data. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 16:05:47 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:05:47 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <4978DDB4.4020403@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978DDB4.4020403@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4978DFAB.50908@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Repeating data is wrong, yes, but is an openid data? It's really only > a pointer to the data. a pointer to data is data :-} sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 16:06:48 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:06:48 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4978DFE8.8020003@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Laurent Romary wrote: > You should not have some prejudice as to what scenario a user has in > mind. We need to provide both ways. > When a bibliographical reference comes in the header of a scientific > paper or as an export from a publication archive, you don't want to > reconstruct the information by following links here and there. You > need self-contained 's > > ok, I see your point. hardline objection withdrawn.... sebastian From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 22 18:08:21 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:08:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new element) -- done, I think Message-ID: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> [The following text is added to ND, just before section "Relations between names and Places" (not obvious where to put it, but this seems to be about right)]

An event element is usually used to record information about a place, or a person; for this reason the element usually appears as content of a place or person. However, it is also possible to describe events independently of either a person or a place. This may be useful in such applications as chronologies, lists of significant events such as battles, legislation, etc.

The listEvent element is a member of the model.listLike class, and may therefore appear wherever lists are permitted, in the same way as the listPerson, listPlace etc. elements described elsewhere in this chapter.

France ceded to Great Britain its claims to the Hudson's Bay Company territories in Rupert's Land, Newfoundland, and Acadia and recognized British suzerainty over the Iroquois but retained its other pre-war North American possessions, including ?le-Saint-Jean (now Prince Edward Island)... This act of the British Parliament guaranteed free practice of the Catholic faith and restored use of the French Civil Code for private matters throughout the Province of Quebec, which had been expanded in territory following the Treaty of Paris. Also known as the Treaty with the Delawares, this was the first written treaty between the newly formed United States and any Native American people, in this case, the Lenape or Delawares. ----------------- I've put a different example in the element spec, taken from the example Dot proposed in the original ticket: Battles of the American Civil War: Kentucky The Battle of Barbourville was one of the early engagements of the American Civil War. It occurred September 19, 1861, in Knox County, Kentucky during the campaign known as the Kentucky Confederate Offensive. The battle is considered the first Confederate victory in the commonwealth, and threw a scare into Federal commanders, who rushed troops to central Kentucky in an effort to repel the invasion, which was finally thwarted at the Battle of Camp Wildcat in October. The Battle of Camp Wildcat (also known as Wildcat Mountain and Camp Wild Cat) was one of the early engagements of the American Civil War. It occurred October 21, 1861, in northern Laurel County, Kentucky during the campaign known as the Kentucky Confederate Offensive. The battle is considered one of the very first Union victories, and marked the first engagement of troops in the commonwealth of Kentucky. The Battle of Cynthiana (or Kellar?s Bridge) was an engagement during the American Civil War that was fought on June 11 and 12, 1864, in Harrison County, Kentucky, near the town of Cynthiana. A part of Confederate Brigadier General John Hunt Morgan's 1864 Raid into Kentucky, the battle resulted in a victory by Union forces over the raiders and saved the town from capture. ---------------- How DID people manage before wikipedia? From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Jan 22 22:57:01 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:57:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: > You should not have some prejudice as to what scenario a user has in > mind. We need to provide both ways. When a bibliographical reference > comes in the header of a scientific paper or as an export from a > publication archive, you don't want to reconstruct the information by > following links here and there. You need self-contained 's I would agree with Laurent here. If it is the case that standard author identifiers are becoming part of the scholarly bibliographic world, allowing as a child of makes sense, particularly for newer users of TEI encoding for whom the use of @xml:id / @corresp referencing schemes will be somewhat confusing. (And by "confusing" I don't mean the idea of pointers, rather the appropriate or legal places where referenced elements may appear in a TEI document.) The proposal would be somewhat analogous to the use of in the DocBook content model for : http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/author.html which can be used to provide an identifier: info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 (and as an aside, if I were a beginner trying to decide whether to use TEI or DocBook for encoding an original article, I would find the DocBook element reference much more comforting than http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-author.html with over 100 legal child elements, most of which have no apparently connection to the concept of an "author".) -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 03:39:00 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:39:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] Message-ID: <49798224.5030106@xs4all.nl> Syd asks me to forward this. -------- Originele bericht -------- Onderwerp: Re: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 Datum: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:47:06 -0500 Van: Syd Bauman I have three areas of discussion to contribute. 1. Mixed content -- ----- ------- I concur wholeheartedly with Lou's aversion to info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 John Doe How do you access the name? If you know there's no other non-whitespace text in there, you could use author/text()[ not( normalize-space(.)='' ) ] but boy, that feels fragile.[1] 2. author identification number -- ------ -------------- ------ On the original issue Peter raised, some thoughts jump to mind. * Who says that key= can't have multiple values? Certainly it can, syntactically, since the syntax is entirely up to the user. The only thing that seems to stop one from using it this way is that the Guidelines refer to its value in the singular ("a coded value by means of an arbitrary identifier"). * We have gone to great lengths to develop a lovely mechanism for encoding details about a person (or organization): her regularized name, other forms of her name, her native tongues, the date she was born, the places she lived, when she was married, the awards she received, etc. Why is her unique identification number in some other database so different from these features that it needs to be encoded differently? (That is not a rhetorical question, but a real one -- are the use-cases here so different as to render our current mechanism -- which would be to point to a or from the ref= of either itself or of the or child of the , and then use or (currently not allowed) in the or -- insufficient?) 3. encoding of author -- -------- -- ------ I think this would be a semantic shift for , but not a cosmic one, and perhaps quite reasonable. However, it may also require a small semantic shift for . That element is currently described in the Guidelines with "... the name of the author(s), personal or corporate, of a work ...". If we are to insist on a naming element child, that would have to change. But personally, I think that would be a Very Good Thing. I always teach my students to use or (or just ) as a child (or children) of when the author is a person or organization. If the authorship attribution is *not* a name (e.g., "anonymous" or "unknown"), I advise them to put it as the textual content of . (And correspondingly discourage "[unknown]".) My logic is that I don't want the computer to have to read the content of to figure out how many people or organizations are involved. I point out that with Peter Boot and Kevin Hawkins the simple computer program has no way to know there are two authors. (Would have to parse out the "and" and to know that you didn't use "&" or "y", which means it's no longer simple.) But Boot Peter Hawkins Kevin is pretty darn clear. (I personally don't generally bother with the sub- components, though.) Thus I think that should say "I contain an indication of the entity or entities that bear primary responsibility for the item being described" without confounding that statement by also trying to indicate that the method of indication is a name. Notes ----- [1] And if you know it's the last thing, you could use author/text()[ count(../child::*)+1 ] but that doesn't feel more stable at all. From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 04:22:38 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:22:38 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <49798224.5030106@xs4all.nl> References: <49798224.5030106@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <49798C5E.4020408@xs4all.nl> Peter Boot schreef: > 1. Mixed content > -- ----- ------- > I concur wholeheartedly with Lou's aversion to > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 > John Doe > > How do you access the name? (...) OK, this seems to be a general sentiment then. > 2. author identification number > -- ------ -------------- ------ > On the original issue Peter raised, some thoughts jump to mind. > > * Who says that key= can't have multiple values? Certainly it can, > syntactically, since the syntax is entirely up to the user. The > only thing that seems to stop one from using it this way is that > the Guidelines refer to its value in the singular ("a coded value > by means of an arbitrary identifier"). Using multiple values would lead to something like: key="nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" > * We have gone to great lengths to develop a lovely mechanism for > encoding details about a person (or organization): > (...) > are the use-cases here so different as to render our current > mechanism -- which would be to point to a or from > the ref= of either itself or of the or > child of the , and then use or > (currently not allowed) in the or -- insufficient?) I agree this is a possible approach, but it seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. > 3. encoding of author > -- -------- -- ------ > (...) > My logic is that I don't want the computer to have to read the > content of to figure out how many people or organizations > are involved. I point out that with > Peter Boot and Kevin Hawkins > the simple computer program has no way to know there are two authors. Which is why I would use multiple author elements. If we were do what I advocate, i.e. use within as implictly applying to that author, the understanding would have to be that this element refers to a single author. > (Would have to parse out the "and" and to know that you didn't use "&" > or "y", which means it's no longer simple.) But > > > Boot > Peter > > > Hawkins > Kevin > > > is pretty darn clear. (I personally don't generally bother with the > sub- components, though.) > > Thus I think that should say "I contain an indication of the > entity or entities that bear primary responsibility for the item > being described" without confounding that statement by also trying to > indicate that the method of indication is a name. > > Notes > ----- > [1] And if you know it's the last thing, you could use > author/text()[ count(../child::*)+1 ] > but that doesn't feel more stable at all. > > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 04:35:50 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:35:50 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> The big big difference between the docbook view of an author and the TEI's is that the TEI model, rightly or wrongly, wants to allow you to just put plain old text in there, which docbook doesn't permit. So you can't say (in Docbook) Unknown, much less La Fayette, Marie Madeleine Pioche de la Vergne, comtesse de (1634?1693) (and, while comparisons are odorous, I note that the docbook model also doesnt permit you to do much about that "(1634-1693)" which many librarians insist on) Changing that possibility would be a fairly fundamental design decision. I don't say a bad one, but certainly one guaranteed to break more than 80% of the world's known TEI documents and thus proscribed by the Birnbaum doctrine. It seems to me that one way out of this argument might be to propose a new element, which doesn't permit text, but does require the kinds of elements we're all agreed form a sensible part of a modern bibliographic structure. Strange that the library community hasn't been asking for this all along really. Maybe we should move the discussion to TEI-L to see if this would fly? As to the bizarre things that crop up in the TEI's current content model (which is model.phraseSeq) -- that's because we never really finished the job of defining model.headerRestrictedText -- i.e. a subset of phrase level elements which make sense as header content. David Sewell wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: > >> You should not have some prejudice as to what scenario a user has in >> mind. We need to provide both ways. When a bibliographical reference >> comes in the header of a scientific paper or as an export from a >> publication archive, you don't want to reconstruct the information by >> following links here and there. You need self-contained 's > > I would agree with Laurent here. If it is the case that standard author > identifiers are becoming part of the scholarly bibliographic world, > allowing as a child of makes sense, particularly for > newer users of TEI encoding for whom the use of @xml:id / @corresp > referencing schemes will be somewhat confusing. (And by "confusing" I > don't mean the idea of pointers, rather the appropriate or legal places > where referenced elements may appear in a TEI document.) > > The proposal would be somewhat analogous to the use of in the > DocBook content model for : > > http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/author.html > > which can be used to provide an identifier: > > info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > > (and as an aside, if I were a beginner trying to decide whether to use > TEI or DocBook for encoding an original article, I would find the > DocBook element reference much more comforting than > > http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-author.html > > with over 100 legal child elements, most of which have no apparently > connection to the concept of an "author".) > From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Jan 23 04:45:11 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:45:11 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <591BA015-E684-4DB4-8A3E-681DAD96543F@loria.fr> Argh. My initial feeling is to go in this direction... this is a - like situation... Let me ponder on this a little. Cheers, Laurent Le 23 janv. 09 ? 10:35, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > The big big difference between the docbook view of an author and the > TEI's is that the TEI model, rightly or wrongly, wants to allow you to > just put plain old text in there, which docbook doesn't permit. So you > can't say (in Docbook) Unknown, much less La > Fayette, Marie Madeleine Pioche de la Vergne, comtesse de > (1634?1693) (and, while comparisons are odorous, I note that > the docbook model also doesnt permit you to do much about that > "(1634-1693)" which many librarians insist on) > > Changing that possibility would be a fairly fundamental design > decision. > I don't say a bad one, but certainly one guaranteed to break more than > 80% of the world's known TEI documents and thus proscribed by the > Birnbaum doctrine. > > It seems to me that one way out of this argument might be to propose a > new element, which doesn't permit text, but does > require > the kinds of elements we're all agreed form a sensible part of a > modern > bibliographic structure. Strange that the library community hasn't > been > asking for this all along really. Maybe we should move the > discussion to > TEI-L to see if this would fly? > > As to the bizarre things that crop up in the TEI's current content > model > (which is model.phraseSeq) -- that's because we never really finished > the job of defining model.headerRestrictedText -- i.e. a subset of > phrase level elements which make sense as header content. > > > David Sewell wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: >> >>> You should not have some prejudice as to what scenario a user has in >>> mind. We need to provide both ways. When a bibliographical >>> reference >>> comes in the header of a scientific paper or as an export from a >>> publication archive, you don't want to reconstruct the information >>> by >>> following links here and there. You need self-contained >>> 's >> >> I would agree with Laurent here. If it is the case that standard >> author >> identifiers are becoming part of the scholarly bibliographic world, >> allowing as a child of makes sense, particularly for >> newer users of TEI encoding for whom the use of @xml:id / @corresp >> referencing schemes will be somewhat confusing. (And by "confusing" I >> don't mean the idea of pointers, rather the appropriate or legal >> places >> where referenced elements may appear in a TEI document.) >> >> The proposal would be somewhat analogous to the use of in the >> DocBook content model for : >> >> http://www.docbook.org/tdg5/en/html/author.html >> >> which can be used to provide an identifier: >> >> info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 >> >> (and as an aside, if I were a beginner trying to decide whether to >> use >> TEI or DocBook for encoding an original article, I would find the >> DocBook element reference much more comforting than >> >> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-author.html >> >> with over 100 legal child elements, most of which have no apparently >> connection to the concept of an "author".) >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Jan 23 04:52:24 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:52:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new element) -- done, I think In-Reply-To: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> Excellent. Do you all have this feeling that things are being shaped nicely? :-) Laurent Le 23 janv. 09 ? 00:08, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > > [The following text is added to ND, just before section "Relations > between names and Places" (not obvious where to put it, but this seems > to be about right)] > > >

An event element is usually used to record information > about a place, or a person; for this reason the element usually > appears as content of a place or person. However, it > is also possible to describe events independently of either a person > or a place. This may be useful in such applications as chronologies, > lists of significant events such as battles, legislation, etc.

> >

The listEvent element is a member of the type="class">model.listLike class, and may therefore appear > wherever lists are permitted, in the same way as the > listPerson, listPlace etc. elements described > elsewhere in this chapter.

> > > > France ceded to Great Britain its claims to the > Hudson's Bay > Company territories in Rupert's Land, > Newfoundland, and > Acadia and recognized British suzerainty over > type="tribe">the Iroquois but retained its other pre-war > North American possessions, including > ?le-Saint-Jean (now key="PEI">Prince Edward > Island)... > > > > This act of the British Parliament guaranteed free practice of > the Catholic faith and restored use of the French Civil Code for > private matters throughout the Province of Quebec, which had been > expanded in territory following the Treaty of Paris. > > ref="http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/del1778.asp"> > > Also known as the Treaty with the > Delawares, this was the first written treaty between the newly > formed United States and any Native American > people, > in this > case, the Lenape or Delawares. > > > > > ----------------- > > I've put a different example in the element spec, taken from the > example > Dot proposed in the original ticket: > > > Battles of the American Civil War: Kentucky > > > The Battle of Barbourville was one of the early engagements of > the American Civil War. It occurred September 19, 1861, in Knox > County, Kentucky during the campaign known as the Kentucky Confederate > Offensive. The battle is considered the first Confederate victory in > the commonwealth, and threw a scare into Federal commanders, who > rushed troops to central Kentucky in an effort to repel the invasion, > which was finally thwarted at the Battle of > Camp Wildcat in October. > > > > > The Battle of Camp Wildcat (also known as Wildcat Mountain and Camp > Wild Cat) was one of the early engagements of the American Civil > War. It occurred October 21, 1861, in northern Laurel County, Kentucky > during the campaign known as the Kentucky Confederate Offensive. The > battle is considered one of the very first Union victories, and marked > the first engagement of troops in the commonwealth of Kentucky. > > > > The Battle of Cynthiana (or Kellar?s Bridge) was an engagement > during the American Civil War that was fought on June 11 and 12, 1864, > in Harrison County, Kentucky, near the town of Cynthiana. A part of > Confederate Brigadier General John Hunt Morgan's 1864 Raid into > Kentucky, the battle resulted in a victory by Union forces over the > raiders and saved the town from capture. > > > > ---------------- > > How DID people manage before wikipedia? > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 04:57:37 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:57:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49799491.7050805@oucs.ox.ac.uk> is it the claim that an existing bibliography says [1] John Doe (https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61) "Goat-bothering in 1920s England", 1976, OUP and we need to capture that? or is https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61 an editorial comment? I must say, I like the idea of , for clean separation of marking an transcribed text as a bibliography, and constructing an XML representation of a database. then again, one could just use Docbook markup in its own namespace for the latter :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 04:59:18 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:59:18 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new element) -- done, I think In-Reply-To: <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> References: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> Message-ID: <497994F6.1070708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> is it wise to show mixed use of @key and @ref in the example? wouldn't one deprecate that in real life? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 05:00:10 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:00:10 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new element) -- done, I think In-Reply-To: <497994F6.1070708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> <497994F6.1070708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4979952A.1000401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > is it wise to show mixed use of @key and @ref in the example? > wouldn't one deprecate that in real life? > Why? I might want to reference wikipedia entry plus have my own database surely? From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 05:02:15 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:02:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new element) -- done, I think In-Reply-To: <4979952A.1000401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> <497994F6.1070708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4979952A.1000401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497995A7.4040607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > Why? I might want to reference wikipedia entry plus have my own database > surely? > I suppose so. just looks sloppy to me :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 05:19:44 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:19:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49799491.7050805@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49799491.7050805@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <050D26C8-CA74-490C-9E95-7A58C6BFAEA9@kcl.ac.uk> Hi Folks, I did not intervened so far because I had very confuse ideas and wasn't sure what to think, but now... > I must say, I like the idea of , for clean separation of > marking an transcribed text as a bibliography, and constructing an > XML representation of a database. I like it! I think it make more sense than modifying and stretching . In TEI there is often nice alternatives, simple and complex one, according to the need of the project and I think that / can easily fit this model. Cheers, Elena -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 11:26:24 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:26:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] Message-ID: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> Another message from Syd -------- Originele bericht -------- Onderwerp: Re: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 Datum: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:30:54 -0500 Van: Syd Bauman Some almost stream-of-consciousness thoughts about this follow. * I like the idea. * Probably should be modeled on the now defunct idea, rather than itself. That is, no PCDATA, and only a certain subset of elements, but that subset could be any number in any order, rather then prescribing a particular structure. * Need to make sure the new element is flexible enough to describe a person, an organization, or one or more of each, probably in any order. * We already have excellent elements for describing people and organizations: and . * So content of could be ( model.nameLike.agent | model.personLike | listOrg )* * That doesn't leave a method for indicating an author that is *not* something you would indicate by a name. We would need mechanisms for indicating the concepts indicated by: - unknown - anonymous - various - et al. * Don't need to be able to transcribe the actual words used to indicate these concepts, though, as one could use for that! * Perhaps there should be a formal way of indicating which author is the "primary" author, and which one to contact for reprints. LB> As to the bizarre things that crop up in the TEI's current LB> content model (which is model.phraseSeq) -- that's because we LB> never really finished the job of defining LB> model.headerRestrictedText -- i.e. a subset of phrase level LB> elements which make sense as header content. Actually, we finished defining model.limitedPhrase, which contains 67 elements, I think. But because is used not only to record authorship attribution in the header or in a structured bibliography, but also to record authorship attribution "in the wild" of text being transcribed, it has a content model of model.phraseSeq, which permits 134 or so elements. It may be worth looking at the lists of elements permitted in phraseSeq but not limitedPhrase and asking if any of them are actually useful in . If the answer is "no", we should seriously consider changing to model.limitedPhrase. And heck, even model.limitedPhrase has things it's hard to imagine needing in . It would be fun to come up with a bibliographic citation that needed or ! From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 11:37:26 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:37:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> References: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4979F246.8000202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> > Actually, we finished defining model.limitedPhrase, which contains 67 > elements, I think. But because is used not only to record > authorship attribution in the header or in a structured bibliography, > but also to record authorship attribution "in the wild" of text being > transcribed, it has a content model of model.phraseSeq, which permits > 134 or so elements. I don't know why Syd thinks can be used "in the wild". It can't: it's only allowed in some specific elements, and in the class model.respLike, which is in turn permitted only within titleStmt or bibliographic elements in model.biblPart and model.msItemPart From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 11:42:12 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel Bodard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:42:12 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <4979F246.8000202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> <4979F246.8000202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4979F364.1010006@kcl.ac.uk> I presumed he meant that you might mark-up a in the middle of transcribed text, and so the element might want to include thinks like transcription elements, apparatus, and so forth. Lou Burnard a ?crit : >> Actually, we finished defining model.limitedPhrase, which contains 67 >> elements, I think. But because is used not only to record >> authorship attribution in the header or in a structured bibliography, >> but also to record authorship attribution "in the wild" of text being >> transcribed, it has a content model of model.phraseSeq, which permits >> 134 or so elements. > > I don't know why Syd thinks can be used "in the wild". It > can't: it's only allowed in some specific elements, and in the class > model.respLike, which is in turn permitted only within > titleStmt or bibliographic elements in model.biblPart and model.msItemPart > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 11:45:07 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:45:07 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <4979F364.1010006@kcl.ac.uk> References: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> <4979F246.8000202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4979F364.1010006@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4979F413.7030205@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Ah yes, I see. Fair point. Gabriel Bodard wrote: > I presumed he meant that you might mark-up a in the middle of > transcribed text, and so the element might want to include > thinks like transcription elements, apparatus, and so forth. > > Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> Actually, we finished defining model.limitedPhrase, which contains 67 >>> elements, I think. But because is used not only to record >>> authorship attribution in the header or in a structured bibliography, >>> but also to record authorship attribution "in the wild" of text being >>> transcribed, it has a content model of model.phraseSeq, which permits >>> 134 or so elements. >> I don't know why Syd thinks can be used "in the wild". It >> can't: it's only allowed in some specific elements, and in the class >> model.respLike, which is in turn permitted only within >> titleStmt or bibliographic elements in model.biblPart and model.msItemPart >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 12:10:20 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:10:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] State of Play update... Message-ID: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> As of today, there are no GREEN feature requests outstanding: I have implemented them all as per earlier discussion. Check SF for details Of the outstanding AMBER requests, all but 4 have been "adopted" by some member of council, and we're standing by for recommendations (some of which have already appeared). The four orphints are: 2201246: term should be added to att.canonical -- I have just implemented and closed this one 2055891: placement of schematron rules -- this was discussed at a previous Council meeting and there is an outstanding action on it: it should probably be GREEN since we know (more or less) which of the possibilities discussed before we like 1954920: @role to be returned to att.naming -- there's been some discussion about this, most of it suggesting this is not such a good idea 2242044: introduce locusGrp -- this has also had some discussion, but no strong consensus has emerged as yet Implementation of 2201246 has opened up a new can of worms, on which more momentarily. From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Jan 23 12:11:40 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:11:40 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> References: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <65B82BBD-2318-4745-A76D-E69C6211BD8C@loria.fr> Le 23 janv. 09 ? 17:26, Peter Boot a ?crit : > * Perhaps there should be a formal way of indicating which author is > the "primary" author, and which one to contact for reprints. Important point, I am using @type to this purpose (despite it is not allowed for , see (automatically genrated from some NLM data provided by Wiley; so excuse the imperfection(but comments welcome)=> work in progress): Miss Fahriye C Dudak ceyda at hacettepe.edu.tr
AnkaraTurkey
 Prof. Ismail Hakki Boyaci ihb at hacettepe.edu.tr Hacettepe University Department of Food Engineering
Turkey
 Rapid and label-free bacteria detection by surface plasmon resonance (SPR) biosensors Biotechnology Journal Biotech in Turkey 1860-6768 1860-7314 Biotechnology Journal 4 5 10.1002/biot.200800316 From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 12:14:21 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:14:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: [ tei-Feature Requests-2531384 ] Rationalise application of @target] Message-ID: <4979FAED.1090801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Here's a ticket I just created, calling attention to some inconsistency in the way we define @target The attribute @target is explicitly defined for 12 elements. Four others inherit it from a class (populated only by the dictionary module). However, the details of its definition in each of these sixteen cases are not at all consistent. Optionality: In 11 cases (including the 4 from the class), it is a required attribute. In 5 cases, it is either optional or "rwa" which means effectively optional Cardinality: In 8 cases it can take 1:many values. In 8 cases (including the 4 from the class) it can take only one value. (There are also three cases of @targets, but these are all consistently defined as taking 2:more values) Alternative methods: In 4 cases, the @target attribute is provided in alternation with a @cRef attribute (i.e. a RelaxNG schema will allow you to have either one or the other, but not both) The @cRef pointing mechanism allows a subset of the methods available from @target, using a different TEI-defined syntax. What should we do about this? a. Nothing b. Define a class for the most common case (required, singleton value) c. Either allow @cRef consistently or deprecate, and then abolish, it d. Ditto for @targetEnd Here's the complete breakdown element optionality cardinality other ===================================================== att.ptrlike.form-oRef req 1 att.ptrlike.form-oVar req 1 att.ptrlike.form-pRef req 1 att.ptrlike.form-pVar req 1 catRef req m @scheme certainty req m fsdLink req 1 gloss opt 1 @cRef locus opt m @scheme note rwa m @targetEnd ptr req m @cRef ref opt m @cref respons req m specGrpRef req 1 term opt 1 @cRef witDetail req m ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=644065&aid=2531384&group_id=106328 From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 23 12:32:58 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:32:58 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: [ tei-Feature Requests-2531384 ] Rationalise application of @target] In-Reply-To: <4979FAED.1090801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4979FAED.1090801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4979FF4A.8010403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> below are at least some of the uses of multiple values for @target in the Guidelines. *If* (and it's a big IF) the intention was that means the same as , then it would make sense to turn all the cardinality "1" into "many". But my inclination is to cut out all these multiple targets, and leave multiple values for when it has some meaning other than "a list of a and b". We really cannot have multiple values having entirely two separate semantics in different places. alternative, use @targets for the occasions where the multiple values != list, and make all @target multi-value. Specs/att.authorialIntervention.xml: Specs/catRef.xml: Specs/locus.xml: ff. 1r-2r Specs/ptr.xml: Guidelines/en/CE-CertaintyResponsibility.xml:She had always liked Essex.It Guidelines/en/CO-CoreElements.xml: Sallets censured Guidelines/en/HD-Header.xml: Guidelines/en/HD-Header.xml:

The scheme attribute Guidelines/en/HD-Header.xml: Guidelines/en/MS-ManuscriptDescription.xml: ff. 1r-2r Guidelines/en/PH-PrimarySources.xml:which may be described as follows: Substitution of a more familiar word which resembles Guidelines/en/SA-LinkingSegmentationAlignment.xml: Guidelines/en/TC-CriticalApparatus.xml:Furnivall's expansion implies that the bar -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 15:24:17 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:24:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > (...) > It seems to me that one way out of this argument might be to propose a > new element, which doesn't permit text, but does require > the kinds of elements we're all agreed form a sensible part of a modern > bibliographic structure. > (...) I can see the attraction there is in making a clean break with the detritus of the past. But it would also introduce another complication for those learning TEI. It's obviously an issue with ramifications far beyond the idno question. As a way to sidestep these ramifications, couldn't we introduce a schematron rule that says something like: if an has an child, it must also have one name|persName|orgName child and can't have text children. This would remove the mixed content problems. In the cases that Syd mentions (et al, anonymous, unknown, various) you would need text, but there wouldn't be an idno element in these cases. From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Jan 23 15:40:32 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:40:32 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] State of Play update... In-Reply-To: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497A2B40.7090807@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > 2242044: introduce locusGrp > -- this has also had some discussion, but no strong consensus has > emerged as yet I think the issue is more or less clear. locusGrp is needed for those that want formal references to the start and end points of the locus using @from and @to. Thorsten suggests recommending locusGrp in case of a discontinuous locus, but we needn't go as far as that. We can just recommend: if you have a discontinuous locus and need the pointers, use locusGrp. If no-one on the council objects, I'd think this can be implemented. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 06:34:41 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 11:34:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > > As a way to sidestep these ramifications, couldn't we introduce a > schematron rule that says something like: if an has an > child, it must also have one name|persName|orgName child and can't have > text children. This would remove the mixed content problems. You could do that in the schema, never mind schematron, if that's what is decided. It seems bad to special-case like this, though, or to dictate that it must come first in an But if you say there are two forms of , one with structure and one without, isn't it actually easier to add ....? is it going to stop here, though? presumably has exactly the same issues? will be next? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 10:07:37 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 15:07:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal coverage -SF 2493417] In-Reply-To: <65B82BBD-2318-4745-A76D-E69C6211BD8C@loria.fr> References: <4979EFB0.8050804@xs4all.nl> <65B82BBD-2318-4745-A76D-E69C6211BD8C@loria.fr> Message-ID: <497B2EB9.1020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Looking at some of these examples, I am thinking that I want added to , and maybe should be a member of model.labelLike -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From pboot at xs4all.nl Sat Jan 24 11:31:33 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:31:33 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > Peter Boot wrote: >> >> As a way to sidestep these ramifications, couldn't we introduce a >> schematron rule that says something like: if an has an >> child, it must also have one name|persName|orgName child and can't >> have text children. This would remove the mixed content problems. > > You could do that in the schema, never mind schematron, if > that's what is decided. Yes, you're right. > It seems bad to special-case > like this, though, or to dictate that it must come first > in an > > But if you say there are two forms of , one > with structure and one without, That's more or less the logical consequence of my suggestion, yes, but I wanted to avoid having to reach agreement about the whole content model of a structured author/authorStruct before we could settle the idno issue. > isn't it actually easier to add ....? > > is it going to stop here, though? presumably > has exactly the same issues? will > be next? editor, yes, I'm not sure about publisher From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 12:52:36 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:52:36 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Although it raises a whole slew of issues about how to implement it, are we saying that elements found within should have different behaviour from those same elements inside ? ie make clear the transcription vs database modalities by variant content models, rather than different elements? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sat Jan 24 14:26:09 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:26:09 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> After some thoughts, I would definitely favour this. It worries me that we should have separate elements for expressing the same thing, just because the encompassing structure imposes separate constraints. So yes, we need alternate content models. Le 24 janv. 09 ? 18:52, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > Although it raises a whole slew of issues about how to > implement it, are we saying that elements found > within should have different behaviour from those > same elements inside ? ie make clear > the transcription vs database modalities by variant > content models, rather than different elements? > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > S?lo le pido a Dios > que el futuro no me sea indiferente > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 15:33:41 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:33:41 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> Message-ID: <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Laurent Romary wrote: > After some thoughts, I would definitely favour this. It worries me that > we should have separate elements for expressing the same thing, just > because the encompassing structure imposes separate constraints. So yes, > we need alternate content models. the BIG problem with this is that ODD does not allow for it. moving in such a direction means starting the transition to ODD version 3, which would (among other things) remove DTDs. the alternative being to embed all the intelligence in Schematron; which would work, but is likely to remains a minority activity. but if we decided strategically that alternate content models is the future of the TEI (and it has a lot of attractions), then it could be a target for this year. Syd may be forgiven for saying "I told you so..." over and over.... -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 16:42:28 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 21:42:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Whether or not we support DTDs in ODD3, we need to find a good solution to the bibl/Struct problem. It might be a good idea to start by stating that problem more clearly. I think the major issue is that the wholesale application of Occam's razor has led the TEI to treat bibliographic descriptions which are being created and managed ex nihilo (e.g. in a header or bibliography) in exactly the same way as things that we wish to read as bibliographic descriptions when they appear in an existing text (e.g. a bibliography which is being transcribed rather than created). In either case we offer a choice between and the only difference between which is that the latter constrains some sort of order on its children -- but they are the same unruly bunch. If we decided that was for the ex-novo-case, and was for the other one, we could separate them a bit better. For example, we might say that only made sense in and that should instead offer only . We could reorganize the current model.biblPart class, distinguishing those which we permit inside and those which we do not. However, this is not going to be an easy job. And I think it needs input from a more substantial group of TEI and library users than we've so far managed to muster to focus on it. It might lead us to think that "conditional content models" are a sine qua non; it might not. Let's not get too excited about the technical aspects just too yet... Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Laurent Romary wrote: >> After some thoughts, I would definitely favour this. It worries me that >> we should have separate elements for expressing the same thing, just >> because the encompassing structure imposes separate constraints. So yes, >> we need alternate content models. > > the BIG problem with this is that ODD does not allow > for it. moving in such a direction means starting the transition > to ODD version 3, which would (among other things) remove DTDs. > > the alternative being to embed all the intelligence in Schematron; > which would work, but is likely to remains a minority activity. > > but if we decided strategically that alternate content > models is the future of the TEI (and it has a lot of attractions), > then it could be a target for this year. > > Syd may be forgiven for saying "I told you so..." over and over.... From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 24 17:56:51 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:56:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] State of Play update... In-Reply-To: <497A2B40.7090807@xs4all.nl> References: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2B40.7090807@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497B9CB3.2080800@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> 2242044: introduce locusGrp >> -- this has also had some discussion, but no strong consensus has >> emerged as yet > > I think the issue is more or less clear. locusGrp is needed for those > that want formal references to the start and end points of the locus > using @from and @to. Thorsten suggests recommending locusGrp in case of > a discontinuous locus, but we needn't go as far as that. We can just > recommend: if you have a discontinuous locus and need the pointers, use > locusGrp. > > If no-one on the council objects, I'd think this can be implemented. > > TWo comments, as I attempt to implement it! (a) Presumably the element should be repeatable? and it should have a @scheme attribut which its child elements will all inherit? Then you can have a discontinuous sequences of pages with two different foliations: (b) Torsten proposes an example like this: Bl. 13--26 37--58 82--96 St?cke von Daniel Ecklin?s Reise ins h. Land My German is rubbish but I think "Bl." here is the German equivalent for "Ff" or "Fols", which means that the content of the elements need to be concatenated (with some rules about punctuation between them maybe) when the locationlist is produced ? I am guessing that "Stucke" means something like "Pieces" or "Fragments", which is why he has chosen rather than for the summary title used. It would be nice to see another example too... From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sun Jan 25 06:03:15 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:03:15 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, Paris 14-15 May References: <F779470A-B6C2-476E-BABC-DE71184D4277@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <A88F372B-5FF0-42BC-9B04-06D3A1789E4A@loria.fr> Dear Council and Board, This is an important workshop on the working road of the TEI manuscript SIG. It would actually be good if some council or board member could contribute! Cheers, Laurent D?but du message r?exp?di? : > De : Elena Pierazzo <elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk> > Date : 24 janvier 2009 16:13:27 GMT+01:00 > ? : Laurent Romary <laurent.romary at loria.fr>, Daniel Paul O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca > > > Cc : Susan Schreibman <susan.schreibman at GMAIL.COM>, Fotis Jannidis <jannidis at linglit.tu-darmstadt.de > >, Malte Rehbein <malte.rehbein at nuigalway.ie>, Paolo D'Iorio <diorio at ens.fr > > > Objet : MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, > Paris 14-15 May > > Dear all, > > the MS SIG is organising a workshop in genetic criticism in digital > framework to be held in Paris 14-15 May. > As you probably know, this is a topic of great interest in the TEI > users' community and we -- the MS SIG -- are currently developing an > application profile to facilitate the creation of digital genetic > editions. Such an application profile *may* evolve into a new > chapter of the TEI Guidelines, describing possible new elements and > giving directions and examples for the usage of existing elements in > a genetic context; or it may evolve in set of recommendations. > The workshop will be a crucial part towards this model. > > The workshop will be held in Paris, 14-15 of May 2009 and will be > hosted at the ITEM (Institut des Textes & Manuscript Modernes). > We are inviting scholars from Europe and North America, selected > because of their widely acknowledged excellence and expertise in > editions of authorial draft manuscripts and more specifically > genetic edition. > The workshop aims to meet two main goals: > > 1. The collection of ideas and suggestions on how to formalise the > encoding of a genetic edition; > 2. The discussion on a preliminary draft of the encoding model > prepared by the organising committee; > > The workshop will include two different groups of people: genetic > edition experts and TEI experts. > > The provisional deployment of the workshop includes two working days: > > 14th May - afternoon > The convened experts are invited to share with the participants the > main lines of their research by presenting a genetic edition case > study, in order to collect a wide range of different cases, problems > and approaches. > > 15th May - morning. > The organisers will present the draft encoding model for genetic > editions. > > 15th May - end of morning / beginning of afternoon > General discussion on the presented proposal. > > The workshop is open to everybody up to about 40 people (we will > request for some form of registration). We will particularly welcome > member of the Council and of the Board. > > More details will follow and we will advertise it in different > lists, but -- having been promised of minimal funding to organise > the event from the ALLC -- we are now sending around the invitations. > > Any comment and suggestion is much appreciated! > > All the best, > > Paolo D'Iorio > Fotis Iannidis > Elena Pierazzo > Malte Rehbein > > -- > Dr Elena Pierazzo > Research Associate > Centre for Computing in the Humanities > King's College London > 26-29 Drury Lane > London WC2B 5RL > > Phone: 0207-848-1949 > Fax: 0207-848-2980 > elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk > www.kcl.ac.uk/cch From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 06:18:42 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:18:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, Paris 14-15 May In-Reply-To: <A88F372B-5FF0-42BC-9B04-06D3A1789E4A@loria.fr> References: <F779470A-B6C2-476E-BABC-DE71184D4277@kcl.ac.uk> <A88F372B-5FF0-42BC-9B04-06D3A1789E4A@loria.fr> Message-ID: <497C4A92.6030801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Indeed yes -- and Elena is, I believe, a member of the Council. Paolo is also organising a similar (open) workshop on genetic criticism here in Oxford next week, which I am planning to attend. I'd also be happy to attend the ITEM workshop, but as it appears to be by invitation only, I will have to wait for my invitation! The dates are OK for me at the moment. Lou Laurent Romary wrote: > Dear Council and Board, > This is an important workshop on the working road of the TEI > manuscript SIG. It would actually be good if some council or board > member could contribute! > Cheers, > Laurent > > D?but du message r?exp?di? : > >> De : Elena Pierazzo <elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk> >> Date : 24 janvier 2009 16:13:27 GMT+01:00 >> ? : Laurent Romary <laurent.romary at loria.fr>, Daniel Paul O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca >> Cc : Susan Schreibman <susan.schreibman at GMAIL.COM>, Fotis Jannidis <jannidis at linglit.tu-darmstadt.de >>> , Malte Rehbein <malte.rehbein at nuigalway.ie>, Paolo D'Iorio <diorio at ens.fr >>> >> Objet : MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, >> Paris 14-15 May >> >> Dear all, >> >> the MS SIG is organising a workshop in genetic criticism in digital >> framework to be held in Paris 14-15 May. >> As you probably know, this is a topic of great interest in the TEI >> users' community and we -- the MS SIG -- are currently developing an >> application profile to facilitate the creation of digital genetic >> editions. Such an application profile *may* evolve into a new >> chapter of the TEI Guidelines, describing possible new elements and >> giving directions and examples for the usage of existing elements in >> a genetic context; or it may evolve in set of recommendations. >> The workshop will be a crucial part towards this model. >> >> The workshop will be held in Paris, 14-15 of May 2009 and will be >> hosted at the ITEM (Institut des Textes & Manuscript Modernes). >> We are inviting scholars from Europe and North America, selected >> because of their widely acknowledged excellence and expertise in >> editions of authorial draft manuscripts and more specifically >> genetic edition. >> The workshop aims to meet two main goals: >> >> 1. The collection of ideas and suggestions on how to formalise the >> encoding of a genetic edition; >> 2. The discussion on a preliminary draft of the encoding model >> prepared by the organising committee; >> >> The workshop will include two different groups of people: genetic >> edition experts and TEI experts. >> >> The provisional deployment of the workshop includes two working days: >> >> 14th May - afternoon >> The convened experts are invited to share with the participants the >> main lines of their research by presenting a genetic edition case >> study, in order to collect a wide range of different cases, problems >> and approaches. >> >> 15th May - morning. >> The organisers will present the draft encoding model for genetic >> editions. >> >> 15th May - end of morning / beginning of afternoon >> General discussion on the presented proposal. >> >> The workshop is open to everybody up to about 40 people (we will >> request for some form of registration). We will particularly welcome >> member of the Council and of the Board. >> >> More details will follow and we will advertise it in different >> lists, but -- having been promised of minimal funding to organise >> the event from the ALLC -- we are now sending around the invitations. >> >> Any comment and suggestion is much appreciated! >> >> All the best, >> >> Paolo D'Iorio >> Fotis Iannidis >> Elena Pierazzo >> Malte Rehbein >> >> -- >> Dr Elena Pierazzo >> Research Associate >> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >> King's College London >> 26-29 Drury Lane >> London WC2B 5RL >> >> Phone: 0207-848-1949 >> Fax: 0207-848-2980 >> elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk >> www.kcl.ac.uk/cch > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 07:34:52 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:34:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> agreed, worry about the implementation later, first establish the principle. what worries me is that it shoulkd really involve _another_ pass across the whole TEI looking for similar situations. in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the job for Laurent -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 10:04:46 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:04:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, Paris 14-15 May In-Reply-To: <497C4A92.6030801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <F779470A-B6C2-476E-BABC-DE71184D4277@kcl.ac.uk> <A88F372B-5FF0-42BC-9B04-06D3A1789E4A@loria.fr> <497C4A92.6030801@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <47B1AC00-1867-4389-9B0F-082131E89256@kcl.ac.uk> Dear Lou, A couple of clarifications: - the workshop is indeed open: we have personally invited a certain number of genetic criticism scholars but for the rest anybody can participate, up to 40 people. This limitation is because the room we have been offered at the Ecole Normale can host up to 40 people and again this number is, in our opinion the maximum limit to have a focussed discussion. - the email forwarded by Laurent is a formal invitation to the member of the Council and the Board I appreciate you may find a contradiction between my first formulation ("the workshop is open") and the fact that we have particularly invited two distinct group of people (i.e. genetic criticism scholars and TEI people), but for the specific aim of the workshop (i.e. genetic criticism with the TEI) we thought that we needed a good representative of both groups, so before publicly advertising it, we have first send the invitation to the people that we think are fundamental to the success of the event. I apologise if my first formulation was ambiguous: my English is always as precise as I wish it was! Elena On 25 Jan 2009, at 11:18, Lou Burnard wrote: > Indeed yes -- and Elena is, I believe, a member of the Council. > > Paolo is also organising a similar (open) workshop on genetic > criticism > here in Oxford next week, which I am planning to attend. I'd also be > happy to attend the ITEM workshop, but as it appears to be by > invitation > only, I will have to wait for my invitation! The dates are OK for me > at > the moment. > > Lou > > > Laurent Romary wrote: >> Dear Council and Board, >> This is an important workshop on the working road of the TEI >> manuscript SIG. It would actually be good if some council or board >> member could contribute! >> Cheers, >> Laurent >> >> D?but du message r?exp?di? : >> >>> De : Elena Pierazzo <elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk> >>> Date : 24 janvier 2009 16:13:27 GMT+01:00 >>> ? : Laurent Romary <laurent.romary at loria.fr>, Daniel Paul >>> O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca >>> Cc : Susan Schreibman <susan.schreibman at GMAIL.COM>, Fotis Jannidis >>> <jannidis at linglit.tu-darmstadt.de >>>> , Malte Rehbein <malte.rehbein at nuigalway.ie>, Paolo D'Iorio <diorio at ens.fr >>>> >>> Objet : MS SIG: Workshop on Genetic Criticism in Digital Framework, >>> Paris 14-15 May >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> the MS SIG is organising a workshop in genetic criticism in digital >>> framework to be held in Paris 14-15 May. >>> As you probably know, this is a topic of great interest in the TEI >>> users' community and we -- the MS SIG -- are currently developing an >>> application profile to facilitate the creation of digital genetic >>> editions. Such an application profile *may* evolve into a new >>> chapter of the TEI Guidelines, describing possible new elements and >>> giving directions and examples for the usage of existing elements in >>> a genetic context; or it may evolve in set of recommendations. >>> The workshop will be a crucial part towards this model. >>> >>> The workshop will be held in Paris, 14-15 of May 2009 and will be >>> hosted at the ITEM (Institut des Textes & Manuscript Modernes). >>> We are inviting scholars from Europe and North America, selected >>> because of their widely acknowledged excellence and expertise in >>> editions of authorial draft manuscripts and more specifically >>> genetic edition. >>> The workshop aims to meet two main goals: >>> >>> 1. The collection of ideas and suggestions on how to formalise the >>> encoding of a genetic edition; >>> 2. The discussion on a preliminary draft of the encoding model >>> prepared by the organising committee; >>> >>> The workshop will include two different groups of people: genetic >>> edition experts and TEI experts. >>> >>> The provisional deployment of the workshop includes two working >>> days: >>> >>> 14th May - afternoon >>> The convened experts are invited to share with the participants the >>> main lines of their research by presenting a genetic edition case >>> study, in order to collect a wide range of different cases, problems >>> and approaches. >>> >>> 15th May - morning. >>> The organisers will present the draft encoding model for genetic >>> editions. >>> >>> 15th May - end of morning / beginning of afternoon >>> General discussion on the presented proposal. >>> >>> The workshop is open to everybody up to about 40 people (we will >>> request for some form of registration). We will particularly welcome >>> member of the Council and of the Board. >>> >>> More details will follow and we will advertise it in different >>> lists, but -- having been promised of minimal funding to organise >>> the event from the ALLC -- we are now sending around the >>> invitations. >>> >>> Any comment and suggestion is much appreciated! >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Paolo D'Iorio >>> Fotis Iannidis >>> Elena Pierazzo >>> Malte Rehbein >>> >>> -- >>> Dr Elena Pierazzo >>> Research Associate >>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >>> King's College London >>> 26-29 Drury Lane >>> London WC2B 5RL >>> >>> Phone: 0207-848-1949 >>> Fax: 0207-848-2980 >>> elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk >>> www.kcl.ac.uk/cch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk From pboot at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 25 12:20:51 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:20:51 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] State of Play update... In-Reply-To: <497B9CB3.2080800@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2B40.7090807@xs4all.nl> <497B9CB3.2080800@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497C9F73.4040205@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > (a) > Presumably the <locusGrp> element should be repeatable? and it should > have a @scheme attribut which its child <locus> elements will all > inherit? Then you can have a discontinuous sequences of pages with two > different foliations: Probably the only reason to have multiple locusGrp's would be the need to switch foliation scheme? From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 12:23:02 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:23:02 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] State of Play update... In-Reply-To: <497C9F73.4040205@xs4all.nl> References: <4979F9FC.5010507@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2B40.7090807@xs4all.nl> <497B9CB3.2080800@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C9F73.4040205@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497C9FF6.4070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> (a) >> Presumably the <locusGrp> element should be repeatable? and it should >> have a @scheme attribut which its child <locus> elements will all >> inherit? Then you can have a discontinuous sequences of pages with two >> different foliations: > Probably the only reason to have multiple locusGrp's would be the need > to switch foliation scheme? > Yes. There is an example in the current chapter showing multiple <locus> elements for this purpose, which is what got me thinking about it. From pboot at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 25 12:23:57 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:23:57 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417] Message-ID: <497CA02D.4030209@xs4all.nl> Forwarded for Kevin: -------- Originele bericht -------- Onderwerp: Re: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 Datum: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:12:22 -0500 Van: Kevin Hawkins <kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info> Syd wrote: > * Who says that key= can't have multiple values? Certainly it can, > syntactically, since the syntax is entirely up to the user. The > only thing that seems to stop one from using it this way is that > the Guidelines refer to its value in the singular ("a coded value > by means of an arbitrary identifier"). And Sebastian added later: > in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the > job for Laurent Since Laurent wanted to be able to assign more than one identifier to an author, I agree that changing the definition of @key in the Guidelines to allow for more than one value would solve the problem. I assume values of @key would be separated by a space character. It might also make sense to allow more than one value of @ref so that you could point to a URI for the author, as in my examples at https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0812B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=876 It seems that having the flexibility to name more than one identifier or address for an element is a good thing, regardless of what element it's attached to. Also, Lou said: > It seems to me that one way out of this argument might be to propose a > new <authorStruct> element, which doesn't permit text, but does require > the kinds of elements we're all agreed form a sensible part of a modern > bibliographic structure. Strange that the library community hasn't been > asking for this all along really. Maybe we should move the discussion to > TEI-L to see if this would fly? The SIG on Libraries is currently revising the horribly outdated *TEI Text Encoding in Libraries: Guidelines for Best Practices*. Melanie Schlosser and I are leading the formation of new recommendations for headers, and we are dealing with such structured author metadata. I'll need to think things over a bit more, but I may bring this back to the Council at some point. Kevin From pboot at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 25 13:05:45 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:05:45 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the > job for Laurent Well, some reasons which haven't been mentioned up to now: If the choice is between key="nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" and <idno type="nldai">info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454</idno> <idno type="openid">https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61</idno> I would favour the idno element over the key attribute because * the @type attribute's values can be very straightforwardly constricted to an known list of values, which is harder to do when multiple schemes and values are stored as part of a single text string (in the @key attribute); * both the values and the schemes are straightforward to access in XSLT when using the <idno> solution; * a rule-of-thumb in xml design is for me: if something has properties of its own (in this case, the identifier's scheme), it should be an element rather than an attribute. From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 13:13:46 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:13:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I don't think anyone disagrees that the multiple <idno> solution is better. But the @key value solution does do the job -- and doesn't require any changes at all in the current system. Peter Boot wrote: > Sebastian Rahtz schreef: >> in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the >> job for Laurent > > Well, some reasons which haven't been mentioned up to now: > > If the choice is between > > key="nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" > > and > > <idno type="nldai">info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454</idno> > <idno type="openid">https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61</idno> > > I would favour the idno element over the key attribute because > > * the @type attribute's values can be very straightforwardly > constricted to an known list of values, which is harder to > do when multiple schemes and values are stored as part of a > single text string (in the @key attribute); > * both the values and the schemes are straightforward to access > in XSLT when using the <idno> solution; > * a rule-of-thumb in xml design is for me: if something has > properties of its own (in this case, the identifier's scheme), > it should be an element rather than an attribute. > From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Sun Jan 25 13:25:41 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Daniel Paul O'Donnell) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:25:41 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> I've not been following this debate, but this exchange, and Peter's comments does lead me to ask a question. Please forgive me if the solution has already been discussed and dismissed. As a middle ground, could not a solution be to use key point at a different structure that contains the real pointer information? I.e. is not Peter's complaint that there is too much information for @key? And is a solution for that not to point to something where the multiple bits of information can be collected? Sebastian said that we'd need to go through the whole TEI looking for similar issues. But it seems to me that we've already established a principle of trying to offload complex information from textflow to structures elsewhere in the document, i.e. in all our personography work. Again, sorry if this has been raised and dismissed. On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 18:13 +0000, Lou Burnard wrote: > I don't think anyone disagrees that the multiple <idno> solution is > better. But the @key value solution does do the job -- and doesn't > require any changes at all in the current system. > > Peter Boot wrote: > > Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > >> in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the > >> job for Laurent > > > > Well, some reasons which haven't been mentioned up to now: > > > > If the choice is between > > > > key="nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 > > openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" > > > > and > > > > <idno type="nldai">info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454</idno> > > <idno type="openid">https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61</idno> > > > > I would favour the idno element over the key attribute because > > > > * the @type attribute's values can be very straightforwardly > > constricted to an known list of values, which is harder to > > do when multiple schemes and values are stored as part of a > > single text string (in the @key attribute); > > * both the values and the schemes are straightforward to access > > in XSLT when using the <idno> solution; > > * a rule-of-thumb in xml design is for me: if something has > > properties of its own (in this case, the identifier's scheme), > > it should be an element rather than an attribute. > > > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 13:55:06 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:55:06 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> Message-ID: <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Daniel Paul O'Donnell wrote: > > As a middle ground, could not a solution be to use key point at a > different structure that contains the real pointer information? I.e. is > not Peter's complaint that there is too much information for @key? And > is a solution for that not to point to something where the multiple bits > of information can be collected? No, I'm sorry, but this doesn't really help much. Where would that somewhere else be? There isn't anywhere else! As designed, @key and @ref are intended to point to the "canonical" home of information about a person, place etc. Note the word "the": I think that implies there's only one such canonical home. Now we have the problem that there are different *ways* of identifying that canonical home. You say "nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454" and I say "openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" These are both, like the many children of the <location> element, ways of getting to the right place, whereever that might be. In a TEI-only world, it would be a <person> element, and we'd point directly to it by means of @ref. But we could also say, in the "openid" world, you get to it like this; in the "nldai" world you get to it like this... etc. The suggestion of using @key to supply many such values is a strictly short-term solution. It works because in TEI-land we don't care what values you supply for @key, as long as we can infer that identical values mean you're talking about the same platonic entity . So note that @key="foo bar" is *not* talking about the same entity as either @key="foo" or @key="bar". That seems another argument against this being the best possible solution, if we really think that "nlda" and "openid" are equally good ways of getting to where we want to be, to add to the formal ones Peter has already summarized. The right way of handling these things is clearly to treat them as alternative identifiers, rather than pointers, and that's what <idno> is for. In the medium/long term therefore we need to find a better way of integrating multiple <idno>s into the current structures. That involves a careful re-consideration of the existing bibl structures, I'm afraid. Again. > > Sebastian said that we'd need to go through the whole TEI looking for > similar issues. But it seems to me that we've already established a > principle of trying to offload complex information from textflow to > structures elsewhere in the document, i.e. in all our personography > work. > > Again, sorry if this has been raised and dismissed. > > On Sun, 2009-01-25 at 18:13 +0000, Lou Burnard wrote: >> I don't think anyone disagrees that the multiple <idno> solution is >> better. But the @key value solution does do the job -- and doesn't >> require any changes at all in the current system. >> >> Peter Boot wrote: >>> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: >>>> in the short-term, I am unconvinced that @key cannot do the >>>> job for Laurent >>> Well, some reasons which haven't been mentioned up to now: >>> >>> If the choice is between >>> >>> key="nldai:info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454 >>> openid:https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61" >>> >>> and >>> >>> <idno type="nldai">info:eu-repo/dai/nl/12456454</idno> >>> <idno type="openid">https://me.yahoo.com/johndoe61</idno> >>> >>> I would favour the idno element over the key attribute because >>> >>> * the @type attribute's values can be very straightforwardly >>> constricted to an known list of values, which is harder to >>> do when multiple schemes and values are stored as part of a >>> single text string (in the @key attribute); >>> * both the values and the schemes are straightforward to access >>> in XSLT when using the <idno> solution; >>> * a rule-of-thumb in xml design is for me: if something has >>> properties of its own (in this case, the identifier's scheme), >>> it should be an element rather than an attribute. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From pboot at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 25 15:33:46 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:33:46 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> > In the medium/long term therefore we need to find a better way of > integrating multiple <idno>s into the current structures. That > involves a careful re-consideration of the existing bibl structures, > I'm afraid. Again. So what do we do? Let this rest for the moment and talk about it in Lyon? Set up a subgroup to discuss a long-term solution? From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 25 15:38:54 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:38:54 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Peter Boot wrote: > So what do we do? Let this rest for the moment and talk about it in > Lyon? Set up a subgroup to discuss a long-term solution? I don't see that we can get anything big in this release (next weekend, I am hoping). We don't want to _stop_ talking about it until Lyon, as we should resolve it entirely there; so lets just carry on. unless anyone is very bored, no point making a subgroup? but maybe we need to check the basis again: do those who want <idno> as a child of <author> still definitely believe it is the right solution? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From pboot at xs4all.nl Sun Jan 25 15:43:55 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:43:55 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon Message-ID: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> Laurent, talking about Lyon: will we each be making our own hotel reservation, or will the local organisation take care of that? If we do this ourselves, where will the meeting take place? What time are we done, on Friday? Or have I missed something? Peter From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sun Jan 25 16:40:17 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:40:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon In-Reply-To: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> References: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <37C29C89-D2E3-41A1-91AB-844F4CA39513@loria.fr> I will secure this with the local organisers quickly and come back to you all. I have already discussed the format of the first day, though and it will close to what we had in Berlin (series of small project presentation with a member of council moderationg each session). I should receive an outline soon and try to find volunteers... Laurent Le 25 janv. 09 ? 21:43, Peter Boot a ?crit : > Laurent, talking about Lyon: will we each be making our own hotel > reservation, or will the local organisation take care of that? If we > do > this ourselves, where will the meeting take place? What time are we > done, on Friday? > > Or have I missed something? > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sun Jan 25 16:41:00 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:41:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1A476F08-3322-4DD1-8730-9E5F2FA37EF5@loria.fr> Le 25 janv. 09 ? 21:38, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > Peter Boot wrote: > >> So what do we do? Let this rest for the moment and talk about it in >> Lyon? Set up a subgroup to discuss a long-term solution? > > I don't see that we can get anything big in this release (next > weekend, > I am hoping). We don't want to _stop_ talking about it until Lyon, > as we should resolve it entirely there; so lets just carry on. > unless anyone is very bored, no point making a subgroup? Agree. > > > but maybe we need to check the basis again: do those who > want <idno> as a child of <author> still definitely believe > it is the right solution? At least, I do. Laurent From pboot at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 26 03:55:00 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:55:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417] Message-ID: <497D7A64.9020409@xs4all.nl> A message from Kevin: -------- Originele bericht -------- Onderwerp: Re: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 Datum: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:46:24 -0500 Van: Kevin Hawkins <kevin.s.hawkins at ultraslavonic.info> > but maybe we need to check the basis again: do those who > want <idno> as a child of <author> still definitely believe > it is the right solution? This is acceptable to me, especially considering the variety of elements allowed in <author>. If this change is made, I suggest that every time in the Guidelines it says that <idno> is for a "number" used to "identify a bibliographic item", change it to say that it is an *identifier* used to "identify a component of a bibliographic description". Kevin From pboot at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 26 03:56:00 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:56:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417]] Message-ID: <497D7AA0.7060306@xs4all.nl> And one from Syd: -------- Originele bericht -------- Onderwerp: Re: [Fwd: Re: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417] Datum: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:35:11 -0500 Van: Syd Bauman <Syd_Bauman at Brown.edu> KH> I assume values of @key would be separated by a space character. Probably, but not necessarily. The value of key= is up to the user. So it would be possible for a user to decide that the values of key= would be a colon-separated list of filepaths. KH> It might also make sense to allow more than one value of @ref so KH> that you could point to a URI for the author, as in my examples KH> at KH> https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa-iub.exe?A2=ind0812B&L=TEILIB-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=876 KH> It seems that having the flexibility to name more than one KH> identifier or address for an element is a good thing, regardless KH> of what element it's attached to. Interesting. This leads to an ambiguity. Do multiple URIs on ref= of <author> mean that you have multiple name authority records for a single person or organization that is the author, or that you have one URI for each of multiple authors? LB> In either case we offer a choice between <bibl> and <biblStruct> LB> the only difference between which is that the latter constrains LB> some sort of order on its children -- but they are the same LB> unruly bunch. Essentially true, but also a bit of an oversimplification. <biblStruct> not only constraints the order, but requires the <analytic>, <monogr> (and thus <imprint>), and <series> children. <bibl> not only does not constrain the order, it does not allow <analytic>, <monogr>, <imprint>, or <series>, and does allow text. LB> If we decided that <biblStruct> was for the ex-novo-case, and LB> <bibl> was for the other one, we could separate them a bit LB> better. For example, we might say that <author> only made sense LB> in <biblStruct> and that <bibl> should instead offer only <name>. LB> We could reorganize the current model.biblPart class, LB> distinguishing those which we permit inside <biblStruct> and LB> those which we do not. But then you're also going to want the middle case: bibliographic records that are being generated (i.e., are not transcriptions but are somewhat more data-oriented) but for which the creator does not wish to follow the model of <biblStruct>. This is what <biblItem> was supposed to have addressed. From pboot at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 26 04:08:00 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:08:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <1A476F08-3322-4DD1-8730-9E5F2FA37EF5@loria.fr> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1A476F08-3322-4DD1-8730-9E5F2FA37EF5@loria.fr> Message-ID: <497D7D70.2040608@xs4all.nl> Laurent Romary schreef: >> but maybe we need to check the basis again: do those who >> want <idno> as a child of <author> still definitely believe >> it is the right solution? > > At least, I do. > Laurent So do I Peter From pfs-listmail at umich.edu Mon Jan 26 10:13:14 2009 From: pfs-listmail at umich.edu (Paul F. Schaffner) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:13:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Lyon In-Reply-To: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> References: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0901261010400.24194@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> You've not missed as much as I. This is the first I've heard of Lyon at all (as a meeting site, that is.) Why is that, I wonder.... Ahh, I see. The messages mentioning it had subject lines "F2F" (which meant nothing to me) and "converging on dates" (which I took to refer to <date>s). I shall have to consult the auguries. pfs On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, Peter Boot wrote: > Laurent, talking about Lyon: will we each be making our own hotel > reservation, or will the local organisation take care of that? If we do > this ourselves, where will the meeting take place? What time are we > done, on Friday? > > Or have I missed something? > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schaffner | PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ 316-C Hatcher Library N, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From laurent.romary at loria.fr Mon Jan 26 10:42:16 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:42:16 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Council meeting - Lyon, 1-3 April Message-ID: <5939B150-10AF-44E5-8F0B-8B5D60EC2CBE@loria.fr> Here's some information concerning our next face to face meeting in Lyon (ENS) on 1-3 April.: - bookmark the URL where information will be put, in particular concerning the program (https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon ), and where you will find location information. - I suggest that we all book at the following hotel, which is very close to ENS and has Internet access: R?sidence S?jours et Affaires Lyon Park Avenue http://www.fastbooking.fr/hotel/FRFR1467_fr-rdh-park-avenue.htm - I suggest to book a deadline on Friday 15.00 for finishing the meeting, knowing that we can start early on Thursday and Friday - Please tell me all when you arrive, so that I can have people volunteer for chairing sessions of the project day (Wed.) Laurent From laurent.romary at loria.fr Mon Jan 26 10:43:00 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 16:43:00 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0901261010400.24194@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> References: <497CCF0B.1020708@xs4all.nl> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0901261010400.24194@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> Message-ID: <0F616F33-98B1-40CA-947D-E1853C38C787@loria.fr> f2f is the code used in the board fr "face to face", I would not dare inventng English acronyms... Le 26 janv. 09 ? 16:13, Paul F. Schaffner a ?crit : > You've not missed as much as I. This is the first I've heard > of Lyon at all (as a meeting site, that is.) Why is that, > I wonder.... > > Ahh, I see. The messages mentioning it had subject lines > "F2F" (which meant nothing to me) and "converging on dates" > (which I took to refer to <date>s). > > I shall have to consult the auguries. > > pfs > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, Peter Boot wrote: > >> Laurent, talking about Lyon: will we each be making our own hotel >> reservation, or will the local organisation take care of that? If >> we do >> this ourselves, where will the meeting take place? What time are we >> done, on Friday? >> >> Or have I missed something? >> >> Peter >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Paul Schaffner | PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ > 316-C Hatcher Library N, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Jan 26 20:57:25 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 20:57:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901262054430.625@Sewell-iMac.local> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > but maybe we need to check the basis again: do those who > want <idno> as a child of <author> still definitely believe > it is the right solution? I can't say it is "definitely right" in a Platonic sense. I would say that it is "pragmatically right", or alternatively that it is a solution that as a TEI user I would find clear and easy to implement in my encoding practice. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 27 04:01:14 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 09:01:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901262054430.625@Sewell-iMac.local> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901262054430.625@Sewell-iMac.local> Message-ID: <497ECD5A.3070104@oucs.ox.ac.uk> David Sewell wrote: > I can't say it is "definitely right" in a Platonic sense. I would say > that it is "pragmatically right", or alternatively that it is a > solution that as a TEI user I would find clear and easy to implement > in my encoding practice. I am getting a sense that <author><idno type="openid">http://www.foo.bar</idno>John Doe</author> is preferred by the majority of people here. I know Lou and I are opposed, but who else is _against_ it? -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From laurent.romary at loria.fr Tue Jan 27 04:07:43 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:07:43 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <497ECD5A.3070104@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901262054430.625@Sewell-iMac.local> <497ECD5A.3070104@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <881BCF80-E692-4D33-861A-887AD627E18F@loria.fr> As a matter of fact, your formulation is wrong. We all disagree - I think - with the bad idea of having a mixed-content model. The ideal solution would be to recommend <idno> with a structured representation of the author's name. We could at least make this explicit as a remark/ caution on <author>. Le 27 janv. 09 ? 10:01, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > David Sewell wrote: >> I can't say it is "definitely right" in a Platonic sense. I would say >> that it is "pragmatically right", or alternatively that it is a >> solution that as a TEI user I would find clear and easy to implement >> in my encoding practice. > I am getting a sense that <author><idno > type="openid">http://www.foo.bar</idno>John Doe</author> > is preferred by the majority of people here. I know Lou and I are > opposed, but > who else is _against_ it? > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Tue Jan 27 05:35:34 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 10:35:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] 2046508 (introduce new <listEvent> element) -- done, I think In-Reply-To: <497995A7.4040607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4978FC65.9050001@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <6F21C23A-FBC3-4802-A3AA-FE1F3B1D36E3@loria.fr> <497994F6.1070708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4979952A.1000401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497995A7.4040607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <497EE376.1040606@kcl.ac.uk> I don't mind mixing ref and key (as Lou says they have different not exclusive functions), but I would encode the place name in the second event for coherence. Arianna Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Lou Burnard wrote: >> Why? I might want to reference wikipedia entry plus have my own database >> surely? >> > I suppose so. just looks sloppy to me :-} > -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Jan 27 14:07:08 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Daniel O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 12:07:08 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Proposal <idno> coverage -SF 2493417 In-Reply-To: <881BCF80-E692-4D33-861A-887AD627E18F@loria.fr> References: <49779738.1060201@xs4all.nl> <49779D96.5070306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <64B9D05A-9B9C-4D98-AE16-A8D19751A7A0@loria.fr> <49783681.3040107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <B5854F32-9F88-4F42-90D7-3AF63C679A1C@loria.fr> <49783CBE.3060708@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978ABC8.1090602@xs4all.nl> <4978B072.9050304@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4978D639.3040707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <C0AEA7B2-3583-47FF-82A3-A10F80B2F370@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901222240270.1363@Sewell-iMac.local> <49798F76.5070608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497A2771.1020402@xs4all.nl> <497AFCD1.6040202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B4265.6050804@xs4all.nl> <497B5564.7090806@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <66C187F8-DAC4-4D38-BEE6-A48154373439@loria.fr> <497B7B25.3080604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497B8B44.8050704@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497C5C6C.9040900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CA9F9.6020301@xs4all.nl> <497CABDA.6010702@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <1232907941.6688.4.camel@cynewulf> <497CB58A.5000207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497CCCAA.10809@xs4all.nl> <497CCDDE.1020307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901262054430.625@Sewell-iMac.local> <497ECD5A.3070104@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <881BCF80-E692-4D33-861A-887AD627E18F@loria.fr> Message-ID: <1233083228.8002.8.camel@cynewulf> I'm not a fan. On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 10:07 +0100, Laurent Romary wrote: > As a matter of fact, your formulation is wrong. We all disagree - I > think - with the bad idea of having a mixed-content model. The ideal > solution would be to recommend <idno> with a structured representation > of the author's name. We could at least make this explicit as a remark/ > caution on <author>. > > Le 27 janv. 09 ? 10:01, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > > > David Sewell wrote: > >> I can't say it is "definitely right" in a Platonic sense. I would say > >> that it is "pragmatically right", or alternatively that it is a > >> solution that as a TEI user I would find clear and easy to implement > >> in my encoding practice. > > I am getting a sense that <author><idno > > type="openid">http://www.foo.bar</idno>John Doe</author> > > is preferred by the majority of people here. I know Lou and I are > > opposed, but > > who else is _against_ it? > > > > -- > > Sebastian Rahtz > > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD Associate Professor of English Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Chair, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/ Department of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Vox +1 403 329-2377 Fax +1 403 382-7191 Email: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca WWW: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 27 17:46:46 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:46:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] last call for next release Message-ID: <497F8ED6.6010608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> As previously noted, our favourite Releasing Agency with Heuristically Tested Zest (think about it) will be pushing the button for the next release of TEI P5 probably this coming weekend if not before. I will therefore be happy to implement any further updates in the ODD sources concerning which a clear consensus has emerged on this list *by Friday morning* (I shall be on trains most of Friday). Otherwise for the moment I'm assuming we're all done, except for the following two: 2242044 : locusGrp -- I think I know what needs doing, but would appreciate confirmation and a new example (see thread "State of play update" on this list) 2538659 : a new bug which surfaced a couple of days ago Those should get fixed in the next day or so. Sorry we haven't been able to get idno properly sorted this time round... it will give us something to chew over in Lyon, though! From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Jan 27 20:12:20 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Daniel O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:12:20 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Digital Medievalist Colloquium, March 31, 2009 in Lyons (on Behalf of Marjorie Burghart) Message-ID: <1233105140.9923.3.camel@cynewulf> Hi all: posted on behalf of Marjorie Burghart. Dear TEI council members, I would like to let you know that I plan to organize a Digital Medievalist event in Lyon the day before your meeting, i.e. on Tueday March 31st. I would like to seize the opportunity of the presence in my hometown Lyon of many members of the Digital Medievalist board (who happen to be also TEI council members). This event is of course open to all, and we would be very honoured if you are able to attend. We hope that maybe it is no too late for you to plan your trip so as to be in Lyon one day before? The program is not definitely settled, but a first draft would be: * Morning: * Visit to a local library * Afternoon: * Public seminar, with Marjorie Burghart, James Cummings, Daniel O'Donnell, Dot Porter (and maybe Arianna Ciula and Roberto Rosselli del Turco) For those who may not know Digital Medievalist, it is an international web-based Community of Practice for medievalists working with digital media. More info on: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ With my best wishes, Marjorie Burghart Digital Medievalist board member -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD Associate Professor of English Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Chair, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/ Department of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Vox +1 403 329-2377 Fax +1 403 382-7191 Email: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca WWW: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 28 02:45:09 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:45:09 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Digital Medievalist Colloquium, March 31, 2009 in Lyons (on Behalf of Marjorie Burghart) In-Reply-To: <1233105140.9923.3.camel@cynewulf> References: <1233105140.9923.3.camel@cynewulf> Message-ID: <5DDF00EA-C9B2-4E17-8258-25117F10E3C0@loria.fr> Hi all, In complement to my message about lodging in lLyon, Serge Heiden (our local host) suggested that he could make reservation in the ENS guest rooms for those attending the Digital Medievalist meeting (and of course for the whole period of the ourmeetings). The romms have no breakfast included, but have Wifi and Lou told me there is a nice Bakery in the surroundings. Those interested can send a note to Serge (CCed to this message) directly. Laurent Le 28 janv. 09 ? 02:12, Daniel O'Donnell a ?crit : > Hi all: posted on behalf of Marjorie Burghart. > > Dear TEI council members, > > I would like to let you know that I plan to organize a Digital > Medievalist event in Lyon the day before your meeting, i.e. on Tueday > March 31st. I would like to seize the opportunity of the presence in > my > hometown Lyon of many members of the Digital Medievalist board (who > happen to be also TEI council members). > > This event is of course open to all, and we would be very honoured if > you are able to attend. We hope that maybe it is no too late for you > to > plan your trip so as to be in Lyon one day before? > > The program is not definitely settled, but a first draft would be: > > * Morning: > * Visit to a local library > * Afternoon: > * Public seminar, with Marjorie Burghart, James Cummings, > Daniel O'Donnell, Dot Porter (and maybe Arianna Ciula > and Roberto Rosselli del Turco) > > For those who may not know Digital Medievalist, it is an international > web-based Community of Practice for medievalists working with digital > media. More info on: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ > > With my best wishes, > Marjorie Burghart > Digital Medievalist board member > > > > -- > Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD > Associate Professor of English > Director, Digital Medievalist Project http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ > Chair, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/ > > Department of English > University of Lethbridge > Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 > Vox +1 403 329-2377 > Fax +1 403 382-7191 > Email: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca > WWW: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From pboot at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 28 02:57:52 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:57:52 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] last call for next release In-Reply-To: <497F8ED6.6010608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <497F8ED6.6010608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49801000.40800@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > 2242044 : locusGrp -- I think I know what needs doing, but would > appreciate confirmation and a new example (see thread "State of play > update" on this list) I had an opinion about this one, but the example will have to come from someone who actually knows about manuscripts. From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Wed Jan 28 07:14:26 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:14:26 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] last call for next release In-Reply-To: <49801000.40800@xs4all.nl> References: <497F8ED6.6010608@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49801000.40800@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <49804C22.10501@kcl.ac.uk> As commented in Sourceforge, I think it would be a good thing to have <locusGrp> not only for expressing one case of grouping discontinuous ranges, but also, eventually, to group various loci in different ways according to the scope of the analysis. The example in the guidelines about foliation may be one case: <locusGrp target="#item1"> <locus scheme="#original">XCIII</locus> <locus scheme="#modern">135</locus> </locusGrp> So what I am saying is that may be it will be too limiting to allow the use of <locusGrp> ONLY for discontinuous ranges. Torsten suggests it may also be useful within <decoNote> and I would say, what about <handNote> too then? See for instance the example at http://www.diamm.ac.uk/jsp/Source.jsp?navToggle=1&sourceKey=805 The fourth paragraph contains some notes on a specific scribe who contributed to other manuscripts too. This is just to say that I am in favour of this new element, but may be we need to think more of where else it would be useful and what attributes to supply it with. May the MS SIG had some discussion about this already? Arianna Peter Boot wrote: > Lou Burnard schreef: >> 2242044 : locusGrp -- I think I know what needs doing, but would >> appreciate confirmation and a new example (see thread "State of play >> update" on this list) > > I had an opinion about this one, but the example will have to come from > someone who actually knows about manuscripts. > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Arianna Ciula Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL (UK) Tel: +44 (0)20 78481945 http://staff.cch.kcl.ac.uk/~aciula/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 28 15:29:25 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 20:29:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Digital Medievalist Colloquium, March 31, 2009 in Lyons (on Behalf of Marjorie Burghart) In-Reply-To: <5DDF00EA-C9B2-4E17-8258-25117F10E3C0@loria.fr> References: <1233105140.9923.3.camel@cynewulf> <5DDF00EA-C9B2-4E17-8258-25117F10E3C0@loria.fr> Message-ID: <4980C025.7010400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Laurent Romary wrote: > In complement to my message about lodging in lLyon, Serge Heiden (our > local host) suggested that he could make reservation in the ENS guest > rooms for those attending the Digital Medievalist meeting (and of > course for the whole period of the ourmeetings). The romms have no > breakfast included, but have Wifi and Lou told me there is a nice > Bakery in the surroundings. > Those interested can send a note to Serge (CCed to this message) > directly. Earlier you said "- I suggest that we all book at the following hotel, which is very close to ENS and has Internet access: R?sidence S?jours et Affaires Lyon Park Avenue http://www.fastbooking.fr/hotel/FRFR1467_fr-rdh-park-avenue.htm " but this seems to be full now. has everyone else managed to get in there? If you can get me a guest room, Serge, I would be grateful. I would much rather have a bakery than breakfast anyway.... -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From pboot at xs4all.nl Wed Jan 28 16:20:49 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 22:20:49 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Digital Medievalist Colloquium, March 31, 2009 in Lyons (on Behalf of Marjorie Burghart) In-Reply-To: <4980C025.7010400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <1233105140.9923.3.camel@cynewulf> <5DDF00EA-C9B2-4E17-8258-25117F10E3C0@loria.fr> <4980C025.7010400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4980CC31.4070709@xs4all.nl> Sebastian Rahtz schreef: > Laurent Romary wrote: > "- I suggest that we all book at the following hotel, which is very > close to ENS and has Internet access: > R?sidence S?jours et Affaires Lyon Park Avenue > http://www.fastbooking.fr/hotel/FRFR1467_fr-rdh-park-avenue.htm " > > but this seems to be full now. has everyone else managed > to get in there? I did From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Jan 29 21:44:14 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 21:44:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901292134090.1681@Sewell-iMac.local> Update on "Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions - ID: 2411994" http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2411994&group_id=106328&atid=644065 It's a measure of how distracted I was last September that I didn't even remember that all of the language in Lou's feature request was verbatim from my email on tei-council at that time! In any case, I think that this whole issue is one that we will probably want to discuss face-to-face, whether in a phone call or at Lyon. I am in the middle of reviewing various documents on URIs, persistent locators, citation standards (Laurent sent me a useful ISO work-in-progress), and so on. I will put some of my summaries and links in a Wiki page in the Council namespace on wiki.tei-c.org and will send another email to everyone when I think it's ready to look at. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Jan 30 02:18:57 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:18:57 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER grease: sign up now! In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901292134090.1681@Sewell-iMac.local> References: <496F7726.4000107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB76A.2050400@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB7AF.2000302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FB908.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <496FC0C5.7030903@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <497050A5.70303@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0901292134090.1681@Sewell-iMac.local> Message-ID: <EF17B315-0CC9-40F6-AF5A-5452B7AEA121@loria.fr> As a matter of fact, this is a strategic issue that should definitely be put on the agenda in Lyon. Please David, prepare a case accordingly. Laurent Le 30 janv. 09 ? 03:44, David Sewell a ?crit : > Update on "Define canonical way of referencing TEI element > definitions - > ID: 2411994" > > http://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2411994&group_id=106328&atid=644065 > > It's a measure of how distracted I was last September that I didn't > even > remember that all of the language in Lou's feature request was > verbatim > from my email on tei-council at that time! In any case, I think that > this whole issue is one that we will probably want to discuss > face-to-face, whether in a phone call or at Lyon. I am in the middle > of > reviewing various documents on URIs, persistent locators, citation > standards (Laurent sent me a useful ISO work-in-progress), and so on. > I will put some of my summaries and links in a Wiki page in the > Council > namespace on wiki.tei-c.org and will send another email to everyone > when > I think it's ready to look at. > > David > > -- > David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager > ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press > PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA > Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 > Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 > Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 30 02:23:24 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 07:23:24 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [ 2493799 ] add decoNote to model.noteLike Message-ID: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hiya, I've been looking at this feature request. Basically the idea submitted is that <decoNote> is just syntactic sugar for <note type="decoration"> and so really it should be available anywhere that <note> is allowed. i.e. it should be added to model.noteLike (currently has note and witDetail). I think I disagree with this suggestion because I don't believe the premise that it is syntactic sugar for <note type="decoration">. <note> for example has att.placement and @resp/@anchored/@target/@targEnd attributes. Instead I think that decoNote is more like a simplified p that is used in a very specific context. (Though where it is allowed could maybe be tightened up further.) I looked at the other ways we handle somethingNote elements: basically handNote and typeNote. And in each case I'd make the argument that it isn't really just syntactic sugar for <note type="something"> but the same kind of specific container in a specialised context. Therefore, I'd recommend that we not implement this suggestion. Incidentally, is it inconsistent naming that we have decoDesc/decoNote typeDesc/typeNote but handNotes/handNote? -James -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 30 03:21:00 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:21:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [ 2493799 ] add decoNote to model.noteLike In-Reply-To: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4982B86C.3060404@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Amen to that. <decoNote> is part of a structured description of an MS, not a "note" in the sense of an aside, or gloss, or small deviation from the flow. The semantics are quite different. I agree, its a specialization of <p>. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 30 03:56:16 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:56:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [ 2493799 ] add decoNote to model.noteLike In-Reply-To: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4982C0B0.1060809@oucs.ox.ac.uk> James Cummings wroten > Incidentally, is it inconsistent naming that we have decoDesc/decoNote > typeDesc/typeNote but handNotes/handNote? > > Um, yes. Though "handDesc" sounds a bit odd (scriptDesc? writingDesc? handsDesc?) From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 30 04:04:25 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:04:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [ 2493799 ] add decoNote to model.noteLike In-Reply-To: <4982C0B0.1060809@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4982C0B0.1060809@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4982C299.9050009@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > James Cummings wroten >> Incidentally, is it inconsistent naming that we have decoDesc/decoNote >> typeDesc/typeNote but handNotes/handNote? >> >> > Um, yes. Though "handDesc" sounds a bit odd > > (scriptDesc? writingDesc? handsDesc?) I think (relatively gratuitous) renaming of elements contravenes Birnbaum..... -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Fri Jan 30 05:22:34 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 10:22:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [ 2493799 ] add decoNote to model.noteLike In-Reply-To: <4982C0B0.1060809@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <4982AAEC.5050302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <4982C0B0.1060809@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4982D4EA.9070709@kcl.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > James Cummings wroten >> Incidentally, is it inconsistent naming that we have decoDesc/decoNote >> typeDesc/typeNote but handNotes/handNote? >> >> > Um, yes. Though "handDesc" sounds a bit odd > > (scriptDesc? writingDesc? handsDesc?) Remember we already have <handDesc> (manuscript description). The business of describing hands is still quite dirty and we already went through this before the release of P5. To close the issue at the time we kept both something that could go in the header even without using the manuscript module (<handNotes>) and something that would fit within the manuscript module (<handDesc>). It's not just a matter of element names... Are we re-opening that thorny issue? Arianna > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 31 11:09:59 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 16:09:59 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] the big red button Message-ID: <498477D7.4090604@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I am now pressing the button marked "P5 1.3.0" release. It'll take a while for the effects to be seen, but just to tell you that no more changes will be put in. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 31 14:31:21 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:31:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] P5 1.3.0 Message-ID: <4984A709.2010403@oucs.ox.ac.uk> as you'll see from TEI-L, I made the release today, as ever was amazed at how long it takes me. Oh well. At least now I can write directly on the Virginia web server which makes things a LOT easier. I am nervous about the Roma validating ODD files, but let's see how that goes. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 06:37:34 2009 From: arianna.ciula at kcl.ac.uk (Arianna Ciula) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:37:34 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] MS description: some mistakes Message-ID: <49897DFE.5020205@kcl.ac.uk> Dear all, two things to report on the manuscript description module: - the sections currently numbered 10.7.4 History, 10.7.5 Additional information, 10.7.6 Manuscript Parts, and 10.7.7 Module for Manuscript Description should not start with '10.7' (i.e. should not be part of the division dealing with Physical description), but start a new division at the upper level. - Elena also made me noticed that the example for <msItem> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-msItem.html uses <expan> instead of <ex>. Arianna From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 07:20:13 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 12:20:13 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] MS description: some mistakes In-Reply-To: <49897DFE.5020205@kcl.ac.uk> References: <49897DFE.5020205@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <498987FD.8070907@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Thanks for reporting these -- the first one is a bit worrying! I'll have a look later today. I'm afraid you've missed the bus for getting it fixed in 1.3 though. Arianna Ciula wrote: > Dear all, > > two things to report on the manuscript description module: > > - the sections currently numbered 10.7.4 History, 10.7.5 Additional > information, 10.7.6 Manuscript Parts, and 10.7.7 Module for Manuscript > Description should not start with '10.7' (i.e. should not be part of the > division dealing with Physical description), but start a new division at > the upper level. > > - Elena also made me noticed that the example for <msItem> > http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-msItem.html uses > <expan> instead of <ex>. > > Arianna > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 5 14:46:19 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:46:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI name-checked in today's Guardian newspaper! Message-ID: <498B420B.4030607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> See http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/feb/05/online-ancient-treasures-british-library From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Thu Feb 5 20:49:07 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:49:07 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] [tei-board] TEI name-checked in today's Guardian newspaper! In-Reply-To: <498B420B.4030607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <498B420B.4030607@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <498B9713.7050306@uleth.ca> Great. And timely. Lou Burnard wrote: > See > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/feb/05/online-ancient-treasures-british-library > > _______________________________________________ > tei-board mailing list > tei-board at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-board > From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Feb 11 11:34:18 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:34:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Laurent or others familiar with France, a couple of questions as I try to finalize my reservations for the TEI meeting: 1. Is the TGV between Paris and Lyon (or between CDG airport and Lyon) reliably on time? It seems that going directly by train to the airport from Lyon would make sense, but I always worry about being late for a flight. 2. Can one expect to find public telephones in hotels, museums, etc., or are they an endangered species? (I don't have a mobile phone that works in Europe. Where there is WiFi, I can use Skype with my laptop computer.) David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 11 11:43:49 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:43:49 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49930045.20703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> sounds like an excuse to get that iPhone you've been wanting..... -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Feb 11 12:22:46 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 12:22:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <49930045.20703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49930045.20703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111216140.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > sounds like an excuse to get that iPhone you've been wanting..... An iPhone would provide great exercise, as to get a signal at home I would have to climb ~300 m vertical to the top of the ridge behind my house. Until GSM coverage expands in my part of the world, an iPhone in my household will remain an expensive toy, sigh. -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 11 12:23:35 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 17:23:35 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49930997.2080306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> David Sewell wrote: > 1. Is the TGV between Paris and Lyon (or between CDG airport and Lyon) > reliably on time? It seems that going directly by train to the airport > from Lyon would make sense, but I always worry about being late for a > flight. Yes, TGVs are very reliable. And fast. Bear in mind though that the TGV station at Lyon airport is in no way connected with the TGV station at Lyon Part Dieu -- it's in the airport, which is a good 40 minute bus ride out of town. > > 2. Can one expect to find public telephones in hotels, museums, etc., or > are they an endangered species? (I don't have a mobile phone that works > in Europe. Where there is WiFi, I can use Skype with my laptop > computer.) > wifi is pretty pervasive, though you may have to pay for it in some places. public phones are not so common these days. From pfs-listmail at umich.edu Wed Feb 11 18:36:45 2009 From: pfs-listmail at umich.edu (Paul F. Schaffner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:36:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <49930997.2080306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49930997.2080306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902111824160.944@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> I am only now beginning to (fearfully) consider these matters. -- does this seem an absurd route: fly to Gatwick, Eurostar (train) from St Pancras to Lille; TGV to Lyon? (the object is to avoid Paris; to avoid all occasions when I might need to speak or understand French(!); and to avoid as much optional flying as possible.) -- I usually just use my CarPhone Warehouse SIM in the UK (or buy a new one for ten pounds). Would a similar deal be readily available in France? I.e., are cheap SIMs sold everywhere, even to non-residents? (And no, I don't have or want an iPhone--as you'd expect, I dislike touchscreens and Apple interfaces :)--, just a basic, reliable, Motorola quad-band unlocked GSM clamshell with good range and battery life.) pfs -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schaffner | PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ 316-C Hatcher Library N, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 11 18:46:38 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:46:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902111824160.944@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49930997.2080306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902111824160.944@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> Message-ID: <4993635E.6050700@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Paul F. Schaffner wrote: > I am only now beginning to (fearfully) consider these matters. > > -- does this seem an absurd route: fly to Gatwick, Eurostar > (train) from St Pancras to Lille; TGV to Lyon? (the object > is to avoid Paris; to avoid all occasions when I might need to > speak or understand French(!); and to avoid as much > optional flying as possible.) The only thing wrong with this route is going to be getting from Gatwick to St Pancras, which will involve crossing London by tube. But you're an old hand at dealing with us Brits. The route from London to Lyon via Lille is strongly to be recommended: you don't have to cross Paris, and the change of trains in Lille is very easy. > > -- I usually just use my CarPhone Warehouse SIM in the UK (or > buy a new one for ten pounds). Would a similar deal be > readily available in France? I.e., are cheap SIMs sold > everywhere, even to non-residents? Yes. Go into a shop and ask for a mobicarte. You can even buy them in supermarkets (but you may have to speak French...) (And no, I don't have > or want an iPhone--as you'd expect, I dislike touchscreens and > Apple interfaces :)--, just a basic, reliable, Motorola quad-band > unlocked GSM clamshell with good range and battery life.) > Enough geek speak already. From pfs-listmail at umich.edu Wed Feb 11 18:51:46 2009 From: pfs-listmail at umich.edu (Paul F. Schaffner) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:51:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Lyon practicalities In-Reply-To: <4993635E.6050700@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902111111180.1817@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49930997.2080306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902111824160.944@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> <4993635E.6050700@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0902111849140.20026@rygar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Lou Burnard wrote: > The only thing wrong with this route is going to be getting from Gatwick > to St Pancras, which will involve crossing London by tube. No, no, by the Connex "Thameslink" train straight from Gatwick to St Pancras. (It used to stop at the old ThamesLink station, but is now based instead at St Pancras "International", as they're calling it now.) (That was one reason to specify Gatwick; the other being that the only non-stop from Detroit goes to Gatwick, not to Heathrow.) Thank you! pfs -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schaffner | PFSchaffner at umich.edu | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/ 316-C Hatcher Library N, Univ. of Michigan, Ann Arbor MI 48109-1205 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 12 04:03:00 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:03:00 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI as XML persona In-Reply-To: <200902120722.n1C74hiE012270@listserv.brown.edu> References: <200902120722.n1C74hiE012270@listserv.brown.edu> Message-ID: <4993E5C4.5090307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Christian Wittern wrote: > For a moment of fun go over to > http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/19/XML%20in%20Practice_%20Formats,%20Tools,%20and%20Techniques%20Presentation%203.pdf > and look at how Bill Kasdorf explains some of the larger XML DTDs out there. > TEI is mentioned on slide 9, but I won't spoil the moment for you to discover... > > Christian > > This is really nice, but what a pity no-one has told him about ODD! From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 12 05:27:38 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 10:27:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI as XML persona In-Reply-To: <4993E5C4.5090307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <200902120722.n1C74hiE012270@listserv.brown.edu> <4993E5C4.5090307@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4993F99A.3000201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > Christian Wittern wrote: >> For a moment of fun go over to >> http://assets.en.oreilly.com/1/event/19/XML%20in%20Practice_%20Formats,%20Tools,%20and%20Techniques%20Presentation%203.pdf >> and look at how Bill Kasdorf explains some of the larger XML DTDs out there. >> TEI is mentioned on slide 9, but I won't spoil the moment for you to discover... > > This is really nice, but what a pity no-one has told him about ODD! And of course his example where you might not want to use a 'standard format', i.e. a recipe, neglects to mention that there are (a number of) standard XML formats out there for recipe markup. ;-) I liked the TEI photo though! -James -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Feb 17 16:52:40 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:52:40 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Badging again, Message-ID: <499B31A8.6030507@uleth.ca> Hi all, The board has approved the preference of council for the badging: the "Powered by" badge here: http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/. Like most of y'all, it didn't really see the need for separate variants for things like Tite or P5. And it wasn't keen on the Host/Subscriber/Member set. It is also happy delegating any minor changes and wording of guidelines on how to use the badges to council. I will say that a change I wouldn't mind seeing is a slightly bigger TEI logo on the button: I like the way the yellow goes over the boundaries of the blue box, and I think it would be really neat if we emphasised that a little more. Otherwise I think its fine. I'd like to get this up on the site, as soon as we can. So: any final changes or suggestions for the badge? Suggestions for parameters to give people who want to use the badges? What do people who put "Powered by TEI" on a site mean: that they use it on their project? That a specific webpage has an underlying TEI document behind it? Something else? Lou's opinion was that "Powered by" > is for use by anyone who uses any version of TEI anywhere > in their site in any way. I'd like myself to be as broad as possible in our recommendations: the goal of the badge is to advertise use of the TEI to the community at large rather, as many people here have pointed out, a specific claim about encoding practice. If some wording other than "Powered by" suggests itself for this goal, please feel free to suggest it: it was less the case that the Board was enamoured "powered by" than that they, like most of you, didn't like any of the alternatives and sub-divisions. But if the consensus is that "Powered by" does what Lou suggests it should, I'm happy with it. Ideas? From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Feb 18 04:02:16 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:02:16 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] SIG Grants Committee Message-ID: <E067DE93-1616-483E-95CA-152F91000F4B@loria.fr> Dear all, The TEI Board has established a modest fund that to which SIG Chairs can apply to further the work of the SIGs. Proposals can be put forth on behalf of the SIGs for activities that would benefit the TEI, broadly speaking. Success will be measured by: 1) the ability of the SIG to carry out the proposed activity, 2) deliverables due by the date proposed; 3) activity contributes to the promotion and development of the TEI. These grants potentially have quite a large outreach component for the TEI. They will be widely advertised on lists and will spur thinking/conversation/activity amongst the TEI community. The membership of the committee will consist of two Board and two Council members. I should be very pleased if two Council members would volunteer to adjudicate grants for 2009. Laurent From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Wed Feb 18 11:41:15 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 09:41:15 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges Message-ID: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> Hi all, I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. Is there a reason not to ask the designer: a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it runs farther over the edge of the button b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI Logo]" Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up on the site. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 18 11:42:27 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 16:42:27 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" _is_ a bit pretentious. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From laurent.romary at loria.fr Wed Feb 18 12:00:02 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:00:02 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <C7B6FCF2-B73E-4011-B2FC-86376D521CCB@loria.fr> I would indeed favour something "fun" if we can (and indeed, "yes we can"). Le 18 f?vr. 09 ? 17:42, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" > _is_ a bit pretentious. > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From dsewell at virginia.edu Wed Feb 18 12:01:29 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:01:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" > _is_ a bit pretentious. > Hmm, I have somewhat the opposite reaction. In the computing world, my sense is that "Powered by X" was always a slightly geeky play on the way the phrase was used in the race-car world: Powered by Pennzoil, Powered by Ferrari, whatever. "We/I use TEI" is a little too personal for my taste. So at a minimum I would suggest the "We/I use" phrasing should be an alternative, not a replacement. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 18 12:05:19 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 17:05:19 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <20090218170519.5FF4814001@webmail222.herald.ox.ac.uk> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20090218/b63137ba/attachment.pl From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Wed Feb 18 12:39:11 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:39:11 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <20090218170519.5FF4814001@webmail222.herald.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <20090218170519.5FF4814001@webmail222.herald.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499C47BF.5000905@uleth.ca> Well since the question has been opened up again anyway, and since "powered by" has never generated gobs of enthusiasm, let's hear what people think and go with a straight majority. It is 2-2, leaving my opinion aside. The issue with "powered by" has been that unlike "Powered by Pennzoil" on the hood of a race care, we don't actually mean: "it is what is under the hood." In fact we explicitly decided it meant, "it is in use somewhere in some unspecified way nearby." Since the phrase is at least open to a more restrictive interpretation, I was dreading trying to explain to people how the button could be used on the TEI website. I can much more easily explain: "Feel free to slap a 'I/we use TEI' button on your project page if you use TEI in your project." Saying "well it's kind of a joke, and it doesn't actually mean that the page you put it on actually has a TEI backend, but if you use TEI somewhere, feel free to put up this claim which could be taken quite broadly by you and your users if you wish." This seemed to be simply asking for confusion, and hence, lack of use. While I wouldn't say "Powered by" is pretentious, I would say it lacks some clarity that a simple statement eliminates. I can see both why people like "Powered by" and why they wouldn't want the question reopened, there's no point using a phrase that needs to be explained on something we want used. Lou Burnard wrote: > Please, no replacements, no alternatives. We reached an agreement on this topic. > Please let's not reopen the issue. > > And (obviously) I agree with David here! > > > In message <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091 at lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> David > Sewell <dsewell at virginia.edu> writes: > >> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> >> >>> yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" >>> _is_ a bit pretentious. >>> >>> >> Hmm, I have somewhat the opposite reaction. In the computing world, my >> sense is that "Powered by X" was always a slightly geeky play on the way >> the phrase was used in the race-car world: Powered by Pennzoil, Powered >> by Ferrari, whatever. "We/I use TEI" is a little too personal for my >> taste. >> >> So at a minimum I would suggest the "We/I use" phrasing should be an >> alternative, not a replacement. >> >> David >> >> -- >> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager >> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press >> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA >> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 >> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 >> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 19 05:18:09 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:18:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499C47BF.5000905@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <20090218170519.5FF4814001@webmail222.herald.ox.ac.uk> <499C47BF.5000905@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <499D31E1.3020203@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hiya, I'm happy to go with either 'Powered by' or 'We use', with no real preference. Thinking about it, is this a case where we might want to actively encourage the otherwise disliked practice of 'Inline Linking' (aka bandwidth theft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_theft). I.e. provide a bit of HTML code that people can cut-and-paste onto their website (to make it easy for them) which references the image on the main TEI-C site. The point being that we can track a percentage number of users by access log who then link to the TEI in this way to get this graphic. The same page should also point to and encourage them to fill out http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Applications/newproj.xml Best, -James Dan O'Donnell wrote: > Well since the question has been opened up again anyway, and since > "powered by" has never generated gobs of enthusiasm, let's hear what > people think and go with a straight majority. It is 2-2, leaving my > opinion aside. > > The issue with "powered by" has been that unlike "Powered by Pennzoil" > on the hood of a race care, we don't actually mean: "it is what is under > the hood." In fact we explicitly decided it meant, "it is in use > somewhere in some unspecified way nearby." > > Since the phrase is at least open to a more restrictive interpretation, > I was dreading trying to explain to people how the button could be used > on the TEI website. I can much more easily explain: "Feel free to slap a > 'I/we use TEI' button on your project page if you use TEI in your > project." Saying "well it's kind of a joke, and it doesn't actually mean > that the page you put it on actually has a TEI backend, but if you use > TEI somewhere, feel free to put up this claim which could be taken quite > broadly by you and your users if you wish." This seemed to be simply > asking for confusion, and hence, lack of use. > > While I wouldn't say "Powered by" is pretentious, I would say it lacks > some clarity that a simple statement eliminates. I can see both why > people like "Powered by" and why they wouldn't want the question > reopened, there's no point using a phrase that needs to be explained on > something we want used. > > > > Lou Burnard wrote: >> Please, no replacements, no alternatives. We reached an agreement on this topic. >> Please let's not reopen the issue. >> >> And (obviously) I agree with David here! >> >> >> In message <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091 at lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> David >> Sewell <dsewell at virginia.edu> writes: >> >>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> >>> >>>> yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" >>>> _is_ a bit pretentious. >>>> >>>> >>> Hmm, I have somewhat the opposite reaction. In the computing world, my >>> sense is that "Powered by X" was always a slightly geeky play on the way >>> the phrase was used in the race-car world: Powered by Pennzoil, Powered >>> by Ferrari, whatever. "We/I use TEI" is a little too personal for my >>> taste. >>> >>> So at a minimum I would suggest the "We/I use" phrasing should be an >>> alternative, not a replacement. >>> >>> David >>> >>> -- >>> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager >>> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press >>> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA >>> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 >>> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 >>> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From ACiula at esf.org Thu Feb 19 06:46:41 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:46:41 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499D31E1.3020203@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <499C3A73.7070401@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <20090218170519.5FF4814001@webmail222.herald.ox.ac.uk> <499C47BF.5000905@uleth.ca>,<499D31E1.3020203@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBC212FA@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> I think this is a very good idea, James. Arianna ________________________________________ From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of James Cummings [James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk] Sent: 19 February 2009 11:18 To: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges Hiya, I'm happy to go with either 'Powered by' or 'We use', with no real preference. Thinking about it, is this a case where we might want to actively encourage the otherwise disliked practice of 'Inline Linking' (aka bandwidth theft http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_theft). I.e. provide a bit of HTML code that people can cut-and-paste onto their website (to make it easy for them) which references the image on the main TEI-C site. The point being that we can track a percentage number of users by access log who then link to the TEI in this way to get this graphic. The same page should also point to and encourage them to fill out http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Applications/newproj.xml Best, -James Dan O'Donnell wrote: > Well since the question has been opened up again anyway, and since > "powered by" has never generated gobs of enthusiasm, let's hear what > people think and go with a straight majority. It is 2-2, leaving my > opinion aside. > > The issue with "powered by" has been that unlike "Powered by Pennzoil" > on the hood of a race care, we don't actually mean: "it is what is under > the hood." In fact we explicitly decided it meant, "it is in use > somewhere in some unspecified way nearby." > > Since the phrase is at least open to a more restrictive interpretation, > I was dreading trying to explain to people how the button could be used > on the TEI website. I can much more easily explain: "Feel free to slap a > 'I/we use TEI' button on your project page if you use TEI in your > project." Saying "well it's kind of a joke, and it doesn't actually mean > that the page you put it on actually has a TEI backend, but if you use > TEI somewhere, feel free to put up this claim which could be taken quite > broadly by you and your users if you wish." This seemed to be simply > asking for confusion, and hence, lack of use. > > While I wouldn't say "Powered by" is pretentious, I would say it lacks > some clarity that a simple statement eliminates. I can see both why > people like "Powered by" and why they wouldn't want the question > reopened, there's no point using a phrase that needs to be explained on > something we want used. > > > > Lou Burnard wrote: >> Please, no replacements, no alternatives. We reached an agreement on this topic. >> Please let's not reopen the issue. >> >> And (obviously) I agree with David here! >> >> >> In message <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902181158030.14091 at lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> David >> Sewell <dsewell at virginia.edu> writes: >> >>> On Wed, 18 Feb 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >>> >>> >>>> yes, "We use TEI" would be rather fun. "Powered by" >>>> _is_ a bit pretentious. >>>> >>>> >>> Hmm, I have somewhat the opposite reaction. In the computing world, my >>> sense is that "Powered by X" was always a slightly geeky play on the way >>> the phrase was used in the race-car world: Powered by Pennzoil, Powered >>> by Ferrari, whatever. "We/I use TEI" is a little too personal for my >>> taste. >>> >>> So at a minimum I would suggest the "We/I use" phrasing should be an >>> alternative, not a replacement. >>> >>> David >>> >>> -- >>> David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager >>> ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press >>> PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA >>> Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 >>> Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 >>> Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From susan.schreibman at gmail.com Thu Feb 19 06:53:46 2009 From: susan.schreibman at gmail.com (Susan Schreibman) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:53:46 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a statement like 'I use' does not just my humble opinion ss On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: > Hi all, > > I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems > to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard > before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a > project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the > badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of > "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. > > I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the > council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. > Is there a reason not to ask the designer: > > a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it > runs farther over the edge of the button > b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI > Logo]" > > Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is > disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next > Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up > on the site. > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Susan Schreibman, PhD Director Digital Humanities Observatory Royal Irish Academy 19 Dawson Street Dublin 2 Email: susan.schreibman at gmail.com phone: +353 1 234 2440 mobile: 353 1 86 049 196 http://dho.ie http://irith.org http://macgreevy.org From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Feb 19 07:05:44 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:05:44 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site is the way it is because we think TEI. Susan Schreibman wrote: > I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered > by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it > all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a > statement like 'I use' does not > > just my humble opinion > > ss > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >> >> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >> >> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >> runs farther over the edge of the button >> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >> Logo]" >> >> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >> on the site. >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > > > From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Feb 19 07:12:19 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:12:19 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Agenda for next Lyon meeting Message-ID: <049A0B1D-2772-4EBC-8570-8EF1E009DACD@loria.fr> Dear all, I would like to start gathering agenda items, discussion points, debates to be opened for our meeting to come in Lyon. Please make any suggestion that would come to your mind. I will gather them on the council wiki so that we can refine them further. Cheers, Laurent From pboot at xs4all.nl Thu Feb 19 08:38:04 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:38:04 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499D60BC.4030008@xs4all.nl> To me, 'powered by' seems exclusive. It would be strange to have two 'powered by'-buttons. But 'We use TEI', 'We use Cocoon', 'We use MySQL' could very well go together. Which is why I have a slight preference for 'We use'. Peter Susan Schreibman schreef: > I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered > by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it > all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a > statement like 'I use' does not > > just my humble opinion > > ss > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >> >> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >> >> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >> runs farther over the edge of the button >> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >> Logo]" >> >> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >> on the site. >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > > > From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Thu Feb 19 09:52:42 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel Bodard) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:52:42 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... G Lou Burnard a ?crit : > The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual > rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site > is the way it is because we think TEI. > > Susan Schreibman wrote: >> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >> statement like 'I use' does not >> >> just my humble opinion >> >> ss >> >> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>> >>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>> >>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>> Logo]" >>> >>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>> on the site. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Fri Feb 20 06:50:03 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Pierazzo, Elena) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:50:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>,<499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. I also agree with James suggestions. Elena ________________________________________ From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 To: Lou Burnard Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... G Lou Burnard a ?crit : > The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual > rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site > is the way it is because we think TEI. > > Susan Schreibman wrote: >> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >> statement like 'I use' does not >> >> just my humble opinion >> >> ss >> >> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>> >>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>> >>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>> Logo]" >>> >>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>> on the site. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Fri Feb 20 07:53:16 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:53:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. -James Pierazzo, Elena wrote: > I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. > I also agree with James suggestions. > Elena > > ________________________________________ > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] > Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 > To: Lou Burnard > Cc: TEI Council > Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges > > I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more > indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't > decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... > > G > > Lou Burnard a ?crit : >> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual >> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site >> is the way it is because we think TEI. >> >> Susan Schreibman wrote: >>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >>> statement like 'I use' does not >>> >>> just my humble opinion >>> >>> ss >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>>> >>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>>> >>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>>> Logo]" >>>> >>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>>> on the site. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > -- > Dr Gabriel BODARD > (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) > > Centre for Computing in the Humanities > King's College London > 26-29 Drury Lane > London WC2B 5RL > Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk > Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 > Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 > > http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ > http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Fri Feb 20 09:38:23 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel Bodard) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:38:23 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for this purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. G James Cummings a ?crit : > I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site > uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI > is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. > > Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. > > -James > > Pierazzo, Elena wrote: >> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. >> I also agree with James suggestions. >> Elena >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] >> Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 >> To: Lou Burnard >> Cc: TEI Council >> Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges >> >> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more >> indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't >> decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... >> >> G >> >> Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual >>> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site >>> is the way it is because we think TEI. >>> >>> Susan Schreibman wrote: >>>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >>>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >>>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >>>> statement like 'I use' does not >>>> >>>> just my humble opinion >>>> >>>> ss >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>>>> >>>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>>>> >>>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>>>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>>>> Logo]" >>>>> >>>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>>>> on the site. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> -- >> Dr Gabriel BODARD >> (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) >> >> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >> King's College London >> 26-29 Drury Lane >> London WC2B 5RL >> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk >> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 >> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 >> >> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ >> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Fri Feb 20 11:14:36 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:14:36 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> After it was suggested to me that we should just say "use" if that's what we meant, I wondered if we shouldn't say "This project uses." But two issues came up: 1) not all people are projects, and 2) it might be too long for the badge. "We" covered both basis, but is not applicable if you are a single person. But I can't see any reason why having a singular and plural badge would be a problem. If I've counted aright, we basically split 5 "use" (me, Sebastian, Laurent, Elena, Peter) to 5 "powered" (Lou, David, Gabriel, Susan, Dot) with 2 people (James and Arianna) equally happy either way. Any last thoughts? I'm also happy to write up something covering both themes (Use and powered by) keeping Lou's point about it also referring to intellectual influence. I can't see how that would cause a problem, since the point of the exercise--slapping a TEI badge on projects that use it, would be accomplished anyway, and the split in opinion suggests that whichever we choose would cause a similar split in understanding in the target audience. -dan Gabriel Bodard wrote: > In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site > uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for this > purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. > "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges > also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. > > G > > James Cummings a ?crit : > >> I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site >> uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI >> is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. >> >> Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. >> >> -James >> >> Pierazzo, Elena wrote: >> >>> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. >>> I also agree with James suggestions. >>> Elena >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] >>> Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 >>> To: Lou Burnard >>> Cc: TEI Council >>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges >>> >>> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more >>> indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't >>> decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... >>> >>> G >>> >>> Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>> >>>> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual >>>> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site >>>> is the way it is because we think TEI. >>>> >>>> Susan Schreibman wrote: >>>> >>>>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >>>>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >>>>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >>>>> statement like 'I use' does not >>>>> >>>>> just my humble opinion >>>>> >>>>> ss >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>>>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>>>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>>>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>>>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>>>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>>>>> >>>>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>>>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>>>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>>>>> >>>>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>>>>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>>>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>>>>> Logo]" >>>>>> >>>>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>>>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>>>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>>>>> on the site. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>> -- >>> Dr Gabriel BODARD >>> (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) >>> >>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >>> King's College London >>> 26-29 Drury Lane >>> London WC2B 5RL >>> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk >>> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 >>> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 >>> >>> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ >>> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >> > > From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Fri Feb 20 13:17:13 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:17:13 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> In keeping with my last posting on this. How about the following for a descriptive text for the webpage? I confess I'm now thinking of this with having both "I/We use" and "Powered by" tag-lines. But there is nothing in the text that requires this: > <head>Let others know you use the TEI</head> > > <p>The Guidelines of the Text Encoding Initiative are now in their > fifth version. With more than 20 years of work behind them, they are a > de facto standard in many areas of textual markup. The guidelines are > used by hundreds of projects around the world. Their use is required > by many public funding agencies.</p> > > <p>Many projects use the TEI Guidelines "behind the scenes" while > delivering their content to the public using HTML. The following > buttons provide an easy way of letting others know that an individual, > group, or project makes use of the TEI Guidelines in its work. > Publicising your use of the TEI is an important part of ensuring the > continuing viability of the TEI community and the TEI's profile within > your discipline. The code snippets associated with each button directs > users to the TEI website, encouraging your visitors and colleagues to > investigate the use of the TEI for their own digital work.</p> > > <p>In contrast to buttons published by organisations like the W3C, > these TEI buttons do not make any specific claims about > <emph>how</emph> the TEI is being used by a project. The TEI is used > in so many different ways by so many different organisations that it > would be next-to-impossible to establish a series of buttons > associated with a specific validation programme or to describe > specific types of usage. For us, it is enough that you use the TEI in > your project.</p> > > <p>Thank you very much for helping us publicise your participation in > the TEI community!</p> > > {{Buttons and code snippets here}} Dan O'Donnell wrote: > After it was suggested to me that we should just say "use" if that's > what we meant, I wondered if we shouldn't say "This project uses." But > two issues came up: 1) not all people are projects, and 2) it might be > too long for the badge. "We" covered both basis, but is not applicable > if you are a single person. But I can't see any reason why having a > singular and plural badge would be a problem. > > If I've counted aright, we basically split 5 "use" (me, Sebastian, > Laurent, Elena, Peter) to 5 "powered" (Lou, David, Gabriel, Susan, Dot) > with 2 people (James and Arianna) equally happy either way. Any last > thoughts? I'm also happy to write up something covering both themes (Use > and powered by) keeping Lou's point about it also referring to > intellectual influence. I can't see how that would cause a problem, > since the point of the exercise--slapping a TEI badge on projects that > use it, would be accomplished anyway, and the split in opinion suggests > that whichever we choose would cause a similar split in understanding in > the target audience. > > -dan > > Gabriel Bodard wrote: > >> In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site >> uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for this >> purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. >> "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges >> also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. >> >> G >> >> James Cummings a ?crit : >> >> >>> I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site >>> uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI >>> is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. >>> >>> Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. >>> >>> -James >>> >>> Pierazzo, Elena wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. >>>> I also agree with James suggestions. >>>> Elena >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] >>>> Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 >>>> To: Lou Burnard >>>> Cc: TEI Council >>>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges >>>> >>>> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more >>>> indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't >>>> decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... >>>> >>>> G >>>> >>>> Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>> >>>> >>>>> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual >>>>> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site >>>>> is the way it is because we think TEI. >>>>> >>>>> Susan Schreibman wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >>>>>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >>>>>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >>>>>> statement like 'I use' does not >>>>>> >>>>>> just my humble opinion >>>>>> >>>>>> ss >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>>>>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>>>>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>>>>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>>>>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>>>>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>>>>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>>>>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>>>>>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>>>>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>>>>>> Logo]" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>>>>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>>>>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>>>>>> on the site. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr Gabriel BODARD >>>> (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) >>>> >>>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >>>> King's College London >>>> 26-29 Drury Lane >>>> London WC2B 5RL >>>> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk >>>> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 >>>> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 >>>> >>>> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ >>>> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From pboot at xs4all.nl Sat Feb 21 11:16:06 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:16:06 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <49A028C6.1010403@xs4all.nl> Dan O'Donnell schreef: >> specific types of usage. For us, it is enough that you use the TEI in >> your project.</p> I'd say: 'You can use these buttons if your project uses TEI in any way'. (For us, it's not enough, but that's another thing) Peter From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Feb 26 10:28:02 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:28:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902261025490.342@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> [just back from a brief holiday, hence the late reply] I like this explanation quite well. It serves as good public-relations text in addition to explaining the badges. On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > In keeping with my last posting on this. How about the following for a > descriptive text for the webpage? I confess I'm now thinking of this > with having both "I/We use" and "Powered by" tag-lines. But there is > nothing in the text that requires this: > > > <head>Let others know you use the TEI</head> > > > > <p>The Guidelines of the Text Encoding Initiative are now in their > > fifth version. With more than 20 years of work behind them, they are a > > de facto standard in many areas of textual markup. The guidelines are > > used by hundreds of projects around the world. Their use is required > > by many public funding agencies.</p> > > > > <p>Many projects use the TEI Guidelines "behind the scenes" while > > delivering their content to the public using HTML. The following > > buttons provide an easy way of letting others know that an individual, > > group, or project makes use of the TEI Guidelines in its work. > > Publicising your use of the TEI is an important part of ensuring the > > continuing viability of the TEI community and the TEI's profile within > > your discipline. The code snippets associated with each button directs > > users to the TEI website, encouraging your visitors and colleagues to > > investigate the use of the TEI for their own digital work.</p> > > > > <p>In contrast to buttons published by organisations like the W3C, > > these TEI buttons do not make any specific claims about > > <emph>how</emph> the TEI is being used by a project. The TEI is used > > in so many different ways by so many different organisations that it > > would be next-to-impossible to establish a series of buttons > > associated with a specific validation programme or to describe > > specific types of usage. For us, it is enough that you use the TEI in > > your project.</p> > > > > <p>Thank you very much for helping us publicise your participation in > > the TEI community!</p> > > > > {{Buttons and code snippets here}} > > > Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > After it was suggested to me that we should just say "use" if that's > > what we meant, I wondered if we shouldn't say "This project uses." But > > two issues came up: 1) not all people are projects, and 2) it might be > > too long for the badge. "We" covered both basis, but is not applicable > > if you are a single person. But I can't see any reason why having a > > singular and plural badge would be a problem. > > > > If I've counted aright, we basically split 5 "use" (me, Sebastian, > > Laurent, Elena, Peter) to 5 "powered" (Lou, David, Gabriel, Susan, Dot) > > with 2 people (James and Arianna) equally happy either way. Any last > > thoughts? I'm also happy to write up something covering both themes (Use > > and powered by) keeping Lou's point about it also referring to > > intellectual influence. I can't see how that would cause a problem, > > since the point of the exercise--slapping a TEI badge on projects that > > use it, would be accomplished anyway, and the split in opinion suggests > > that whichever we choose would cause a similar split in understanding in > > the target audience. > > > > -dan > > > > Gabriel Bodard wrote: > > > >> In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site > >> uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for this > >> purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. > >> "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges > >> also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. > >> > >> G > >> > >> James Cummings a ?crit : > >> > >> > >>> I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site > >>> uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI > >>> is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. > >>> > >>> Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. > >>> > >>> -James > >>> > >>> Pierazzo, Elena wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. > >>>> I also agree with James suggestions. > >>>> Elena > >>>> > >>>> ________________________________________ > >>>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 > >>>> To: Lou Burnard > >>>> Cc: TEI Council > >>>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges > >>>> > >>>> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more > >>>> indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't > >>>> decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... > >>>> > >>>> G > >>>> > >>>> Lou Burnard a ?crit : > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual > >>>>> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site > >>>>> is the way it is because we think TEI. > >>>>> > >>>>> Susan Schreibman wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered > >>>>>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it > >>>>>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a > >>>>>> statement like 'I use' does not > >>>>>> > >>>>>> just my humble opinion > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ss > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi all, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems > >>>>>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard > >>>>>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a > >>>>>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the > >>>>>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of > >>>>>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the > >>>>>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. > >>>>>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it > >>>>>>> runs farther over the edge of the button > >>>>>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI > >>>>>>> Logo]" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is > >>>>>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next > >>>>>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up > >>>>>>> on the site. > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> tei-council mailing list > >>>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >>>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> tei-council mailing list > >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Dr Gabriel BODARD > >>>> (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) > >>>> > >>>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities > >>>> King's College London > >>>> 26-29 Drury Lane > >>>> London WC2B 5RL > >>>> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk > >>>> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 > >>>> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 > >>>> > >>>> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ > >>>> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> tei-council mailing list > >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> tei-council mailing list > >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Thu Feb 26 11:01:10 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:01:10 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Agenda Message-ID: <30A56600-B4D3-40CA-9594-5F93E8A1C17E@loria.fr> I have started to compile a few items for Lyon. Please have a look at http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council#Draft_Agenda and express your views! Cheers, Laurent PS: David, you're in ther already From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Thu Feb 26 12:20:10 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:20:10 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902261025490.342@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902261025490.342@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49A6CF4A.2090603@uleth.ca> Dear David (and others), Events took over from my resolve to finish this off on Monday, but nothing has changed since then. Since we seem to be split very evenly on the merit of the two different approaches, I think we can assume the same thing of our potential users for the buttons. So let's go with both a singular and plural "I use" set and the "powered by" button. As you know everybody felt that the first set of buttons were the best. A couple of people have mentioned that they liked the way the TEI logo is bigger than the bounds of the button on the mockups, and nobody argued against my proposal that we ask the designer to emphasise this slightly more by increasing the size of the logo on the button. So, David... Could you ask the designer 1) to make up three badges based on the "Powered by < TEI >" example here: http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ (i.e. 4th from the top). These should contain the text (in each case followed by the TEI logo): Powered by I use We use 2) In making the badges up, to increase the size of the TEI logo so that it spills farther over the top and bottom of the button? Thanks very much! -dan David Sewell wrote: > [just back from a brief holiday, hence the late reply] > > I like this explanation quite well. It serves as good public-relations > text in addition to explaining the badges. > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > >> In keeping with my last posting on this. How about the following for a >> descriptive text for the webpage? I confess I'm now thinking of this >> with having both "I/We use" and "Powered by" tag-lines. But there is >> nothing in the text that requires this: >> >> >>> <head>Let others know you use the TEI</head> >>> >>> <p>The Guidelines of the Text Encoding Initiative are now in their >>> fifth version. With more than 20 years of work behind them, they are a >>> de facto standard in many areas of textual markup. The guidelines are >>> used by hundreds of projects around the world. Their use is required >>> by many public funding agencies.</p> >>> >>> <p>Many projects use the TEI Guidelines "behind the scenes" while >>> delivering their content to the public using HTML. The following >>> buttons provide an easy way of letting others know that an individual, >>> group, or project makes use of the TEI Guidelines in its work. >>> Publicising your use of the TEI is an important part of ensuring the >>> continuing viability of the TEI community and the TEI's profile within >>> your discipline. The code snippets associated with each button directs >>> users to the TEI website, encouraging your visitors and colleagues to >>> investigate the use of the TEI for their own digital work.</p> >>> >>> <p>In contrast to buttons published by organisations like the W3C, >>> these TEI buttons do not make any specific claims about >>> <emph>how</emph> the TEI is being used by a project. The TEI is used >>> in so many different ways by so many different organisations that it >>> would be next-to-impossible to establish a series of buttons >>> associated with a specific validation programme or to describe >>> specific types of usage. For us, it is enough that you use the TEI in >>> your project.</p> >>> >>> <p>Thank you very much for helping us publicise your participation in >>> the TEI community!</p> >>> >>> {{Buttons and code snippets here}} >>> >> Dan O'Donnell wrote: >> >>> After it was suggested to me that we should just say "use" if that's >>> what we meant, I wondered if we shouldn't say "This project uses." But >>> two issues came up: 1) not all people are projects, and 2) it might be >>> too long for the badge. "We" covered both basis, but is not applicable >>> if you are a single person. But I can't see any reason why having a >>> singular and plural badge would be a problem. >>> >>> If I've counted aright, we basically split 5 "use" (me, Sebastian, >>> Laurent, Elena, Peter) to 5 "powered" (Lou, David, Gabriel, Susan, Dot) >>> with 2 people (James and Arianna) equally happy either way. Any last >>> thoughts? I'm also happy to write up something covering both themes (Use >>> and powered by) keeping Lou's point about it also referring to >>> intellectual influence. I can't see how that would cause a problem, >>> since the point of the exercise--slapping a TEI badge on projects that >>> use it, would be accomplished anyway, and the split in opinion suggests >>> that whichever we choose would cause a similar split in understanding in >>> the target audience. >>> >>> -dan >>> >>> Gabriel Bodard wrote: >>> >>> >>>> In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site >>>> uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for this >>>> purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. >>>> "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges >>>> also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. >>>> >>>> G >>>> >>>> James Cummings a ?crit : >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site >>>>> uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses TEI >>>>> is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be appropriate. >>>>> >>>>> Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. >>>>> >>>>> -James >>>>> >>>>> Pierazzo, Elena wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to use it. >>>>>> I also agree with James suggestions. >>>>>> Elena >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________________ >>>>>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] >>>>>> Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 >>>>>> To: Lou Burnard >>>>>> Cc: TEI Council >>>>>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges >>>>>> >>>>>> I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more >>>>>> indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we can't >>>>>> decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... >>>>>> >>>>>> G >>>>>> >>>>>> Lou Burnard a ?crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an intellectual >>>>>>> rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". Our site >>>>>>> is the way it is because we think TEI. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Susan Schreibman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we use' -- powered >>>>>>>> by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code that makes it >>>>>>>> all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a way that a >>>>>>>> statement like 'I use' does not >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> just my humble opinion >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made what seems >>>>>>>>> to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've heard >>>>>>>>> before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally that a >>>>>>>>> project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply have the >>>>>>>>> badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" instead of >>>>>>>>> "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one or more senses. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles to the >>>>>>>>> council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to be shot down. >>>>>>>>> Is there a reason not to ask the designer: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% so that it >>>>>>>>> runs farther over the edge of the button >>>>>>>>> b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and "We use [TEI >>>>>>>>> Logo]" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since this is not rocket science (though getting things wrong is >>>>>>>>> disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments til next >>>>>>>>> Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll get them up >>>>>>>>> on the site. >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr Gabriel BODARD >>>>>> (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) >>>>>> >>>>>> Centre for Computing in the Humanities >>>>>> King's College London >>>>>> 26-29 Drury Lane >>>>>> London WC2B 5RL >>>>>> Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk >>>>>> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 >>>>>> Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ >>>>>> http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> > > From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 2 14:04:49 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 14:04:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] Last question about badges In-Reply-To: <49A6CF4A.2090603@uleth.ca> References: <499C3A2B.1070205@uleth.ca> <7aab20570902190353s5993af88x611bac4e6bf0d3b3@mail.gmail.com> <499D4B18.8050707@oucs.ox.ac.uk>, <499D723A.3040904@kcl.ac.uk> <908139793CE13A4AB5B14781BE0F27C927F9F4EC6B@KCL-MAIL04.kclad.ds.kcl.ac.uk> <499EA7BC.30201@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <499EC05F.7080505@kcl.ac.uk> <499ED6EC.8040702@uleth.ca> <499EF3A9.2060008@uleth.ca> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0902261025490.342@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49A6CF4A.2090603@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903021404050.29672@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> I have asked the designer to prepare a final version with the three alternate texts as described below; will let everyone know when that is done, for final approval of the result, David On Thu, 26 Feb 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > Dear David (and others), > > Events took over from my resolve to finish this off on Monday, but nothing has > changed since then. Since we seem to be split very evenly on the merit of the > two different approaches, I think we can assume the same thing of our > potential users for the buttons. So let's go with both a singular and plural > "I use" set and the "powered by" button. > > As you know everybody felt that the first set of buttons were the best. A > couple of people have mentioned that they liked the way the TEI logo is bigger > than the bounds of the button on the mockups, and nobody argued against my > proposal that we ask the designer to emphasise this slightly more by > increasing the size of the logo on the button. > > So, David... > > Could you ask the designer > > 1) to make up three badges based on the "Powered by < TEI >" example here: > http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ (i.e. 4th from the top). These should > contain the text (in each case followed by the TEI logo): > > Powered by > I use > We use > > 2) In making the badges up, to increase the size of the TEI logo so that it > spills farther over the top and bottom of the button? > > Thanks very much! > > -dan > > > > David Sewell wrote: > > [just back from a brief holiday, hence the late reply] > > > > I like this explanation quite well. It serves as good public-relations > > text in addition to explaining the badges. > > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > > > > > > In keeping with my last posting on this. How about the following for a > > > descriptive text for the webpage? I confess I'm now thinking of this > > > with having both "I/We use" and "Powered by" tag-lines. But there is > > > nothing in the text that requires this: > > > > > > > > > > <head>Let others know you use the TEI</head> > > > > > > > > <p>The Guidelines of the Text Encoding Initiative are now in their > > > > fifth version. With more than 20 years of work behind them, they are a > > > > de facto standard in many areas of textual markup. The guidelines are > > > > used by hundreds of projects around the world. Their use is required > > > > by many public funding agencies.</p> > > > > > > > > <p>Many projects use the TEI Guidelines "behind the scenes" while > > > > delivering their content to the public using HTML. The following > > > > buttons provide an easy way of letting others know that an individual, > > > > group, or project makes use of the TEI Guidelines in its work. > > > > Publicising your use of the TEI is an important part of ensuring the > > > > continuing viability of the TEI community and the TEI's profile within > > > > your discipline. The code snippets associated with each button directs > > > > users to the TEI website, encouraging your visitors and colleagues to > > > > investigate the use of the TEI for their own digital work.</p> > > > > > > > > <p>In contrast to buttons published by organisations like the W3C, > > > > these TEI buttons do not make any specific claims about > > > > <emph>how</emph> the TEI is being used by a project. The TEI is used > > > > in so many different ways by so many different organisations that it > > > > would be next-to-impossible to establish a series of buttons > > > > associated with a specific validation programme or to describe > > > > specific types of usage. For us, it is enough that you use the TEI in > > > > your project.</p> > > > > > > > > <p>Thank you very much for helping us publicise your participation in > > > > the TEI community!</p> > > > > > > > > {{Buttons and code snippets here}} > > > > > > > Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > > > > > > After it was suggested to me that we should just say "use" if that's > > > > what we meant, I wondered if we shouldn't say "This project uses." But > > > > two issues came up: 1) not all people are projects, and 2) it might be > > > > too long for the badge. "We" covered both basis, but is not applicable > > > > if you are a single person. But I can't see any reason why having a > > > > singular and plural badge would be a problem. > > > > > > > > If I've counted aright, we basically split 5 "use" (me, Sebastian, > > > > Laurent, Elena, Peter) to 5 "powered" (Lou, David, Gabriel, Susan, Dot) > > > > with 2 people (James and Arianna) equally happy either way. Any last > > > > thoughts? I'm also happy to write up something covering both themes (Use > > > > and powered by) keeping Lou's point about it also referring to > > > > intellectual influence. I can't see how that would cause a problem, > > > > since the point of the exercise--slapping a TEI badge on projects that > > > > use it, would be accomplished anyway, and the split in opinion suggests > > > > that whichever we choose would cause a similar split in understanding in > > > > the target audience. > > > > > > > > -dan > > > > > > > > Gabriel Bodard wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In some cases, wouldn't "project uses" be more appropriate than "site > > > > > uses"? I guess that is part of my problem with the verb "uses" for > > > > > this > > > > > purpose--we're never going to agree on what the subject should be. > > > > > "Powered by" is nice and generic, and it's what a hundred other badges > > > > > also say so it's well-understood as well as fairly generic. > > > > > > > > > > G > > > > > > > > > > James Cummings a ?crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I realise that no one wants any more suggestions, but why not 'Site > > > > > > uses' rather than 'powered by' or 'I/We use'. Saying the site uses > > > > > > TEI > > > > > > is vague and impersonal enough for those who I/We might not be > > > > > > appropriate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a thought as it occurs to me, feel free to ignore. > > > > > > > > > > > > -James > > > > > > > > > > > > Pierazzo, Elena wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that "I use" will be better than "powered by", even is > > > > > > > perhaps it doesn't convey all the meaning Lou was suggesting. I > > > > > > > think that, being more understated, that will enourage people to > > > > > > > use it. > > > > > > > I also agree with James suggestions. > > > > > > > Elena > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________ > > > > > > > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > > > > [tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of > > > > > > > Gabriel Bodard [gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk] > > > > > > > Sent: 19 February 2009 14:52 > > > > > > > To: Lou Burnard > > > > > > > Cc: TEI Council > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [tei-council] Last question about badges > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also very much agree that "powered by" is more serious and more > > > > > > > indiciative of what we mean than "we use". The very fact that we > > > > > > > can't > > > > > > > decide between the wording "I use" or "we use" makes me nervous... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lou Burnard a ?crit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other way to read "powered by" is with reference to an > > > > > > > > intellectual > > > > > > > > rather than an engineering context -- kind of "empowered by". > > > > > > > > Our site > > > > > > > > is the way it is because we think TEI. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Susan Schreibman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I kind of like the 'powered by' rather than 'I use' or 'we > > > > > > > > > use' -- powered > > > > > > > > > by makes me think of what lies behind the screen -- the code > > > > > > > > > that makes it > > > > > > > > > all happen; powered by sounds significant to me, active in a > > > > > > > > > way that a > > > > > > > > > statement like 'I use' does not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just my humble opinion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Dan O'Donnell > > > > > > > > > <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was discussing the badges with somebody here and they made > > > > > > > > > > what seems > > > > > > > > > > to me to be a very sensible proposal, that I'm not sure I've > > > > > > > > > > heard > > > > > > > > > > before. If the point of the badge is to indicate generally > > > > > > > > > > that a > > > > > > > > > > project or person uses TEI, they suggested, why not simply > > > > > > > > > > have the > > > > > > > > > > badge say "I use [TEI Logo]" and/or "We use [TEI Logo]" > > > > > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > > > > "Powered by [TEI Logo]" which may or may not be true in one > > > > > > > > > > or more senses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very much like this. But my sense has been at right angles > > > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > > > > council on this all along, so let me throw it out there to > > > > > > > > > > be shot down. > > > > > > > > > > Is there a reason not to ask the designer: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a) Increase the size of TEI logo on the button by maybe 10% > > > > > > > > > > so that it > > > > > > > > > > runs farther over the edge of the button > > > > > > > > > > b) Change the text to two buttons: "I use [TEI Logo]" and > > > > > > > > > > "We use [TEI > > > > > > > > > > Logo]" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since this is not rocket science (though getting things > > > > > > > > > > wrong is > > > > > > > > > > disproportionately embarrassing), let me ask for comments > > > > > > > > > > til next > > > > > > > > > > Monday. At that point, if I don't hear any objections, I'll > > > > > > > > > > get them up > > > > > > > > > > on the site. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > > > > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Dr Gabriel BODARD > > > > > > > (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Centre for Computing in the Humanities > > > > > > > King's College London > > > > > > > 26-29 Drury Lane > > > > > > > London WC2B 5RL > > > > > > > Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk > > > > > > > Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 > > > > > > > Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ > > > > > > > http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > tei-council mailing list > > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > tei-council mailing list > > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Thu Mar 5 14:38:27 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:38:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> All, Please look at: http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ The two sets there contain the three textual formulas contained in Dan's last instruction, and an expanded <TEI> logo. The designer has achieved the expansion in two ways: (1) by shrinking the colored rectangle so as to keep the entire graphic dimensions the same; (2) by keeping the colored rectangle the same size and simply enlarging the logo. Feedback? I would judge that the first, thinner, set of three badges has better proportions. Or, if we want to use the height of the second set, we might want to expand the horizontal size of "POWERED BY <TEI>" so that the text is not spaced so narrowly. (Is there an absolute need to have the badge dimensions identical independent of text?) So I guess my vote would be: set 2, with a "POWERED BY" version wider than the "I/WE USE" versions. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 5 16:50:01 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 21:50:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B04909.1070207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> David Sewell wrote: > > > So I guess my vote would be: set 2, with a "POWERED BY" version wider > than the "I/WE USE" versions. yes, I agree with both points. I'll happily sprinkle one of these around where I can (if Lou lets me....) -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Mar 6 03:15:17 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 09:15:17 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <49B04909.1070207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B04909.1070207@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8805969E-65A1-4D0E-A303-2A29CED92DB6@loria.fr> +1 Le 5 mars 09 ? 22:50, Sebastian Rahtz a ?crit : > David Sewell wrote: >> >> >> So I guess my vote would be: set 2, with a "POWERED BY" version wider >> than the "I/WE USE" versions. > > yes, I agree with both points. I'll happily > sprinkle one of these around where I can (if Lou > lets me....) > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > S?lo le pido a Dios > que el futuro no me sea indiferente > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From pboot at xs4all.nl Fri Mar 6 03:16:16 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:16:16 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> David Sewell schreef: > Feedback? The first set seems more elegant to me, but I can live with either. Peter From ACiula at esf.org Fri Mar 6 12:52:25 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 18:52:25 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE874C@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> I agree with Peter (first set more elegant to my eyes), but I don't feel so strongly about this. Arianna -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Boot Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 09:16 To: David Sewell Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions David Sewell schreef: > Feedback? The first set seems more elegant to me, but I can live with either. Peter _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Fri Mar 6 15:47:23 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 13:47:23 -0700 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE874C@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE874C@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Message-ID: <49B18BDB.2080907@uleth.ca> I'm with the perfidious anglos--I like the second set, but am happy with both. Well done. Shall we call it a day on Monday with whatever the majority decides and then I'll put an announcement up on tei-c.org Arianna Ciula wrote: > I agree with Peter (first set more elegant to my eyes), but I don't feel so strongly about this. > > Arianna > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Boot > Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 09:16 > To: David Sewell > Cc: TEI Council > Subject: Re: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions > > > David Sewell schreef: > >> Feedback? >> > The first set seems more elegant to me, but I can live with either. > Peter > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Fri Mar 6 17:49:02 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:49:02 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> Message-ID: <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> Dear Council, Now it's time to volunteer! Please let me know which session you would like to chair/moderate. More then one volunteer could mean that one is moderating and the other has the duty to think of possible questions/ answers. ++ I would also like to know who would be likely to be around in Lyon on Tuesday afternoon, there may be a dinner for them... Laurent D?but du message r?exp?di? : > De : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > Date : 6 mars 2009 18:28:13 GMT+01:00 > ? : TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu > Objet : TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > R?pondre ? : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > > [version fran?aise plus bas] > *************************************************** > > TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > > April 1st 2009 > at Ecole normale sup?rieure > Lettres et sciences humaines > Lyon, France > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > *************************************************** > > Following Kyoto, Berlin and Galway, the next public session of the TEI > Technical Council will be held in Lyon, on April 1st 2009. The Council > is the elected committee responsible for technical development and > maintenance of the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). > This event will allow French initiatives, research projects, and > publishing platforms using the TEI to discuss their interests with the > members of the Council. Topics will include how to use the TEI and the > difficulties encountered: customization, best practices guide for a > particular phenomenon, difficult phenomena, proposed changes in the > guidelines, suggestions for setting up a <term>SIG</term> (<gloss> > Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. We anticipate a meeting > characterised by brief presentation and discussion, precise and > technical, based on concrete examples. > > * Sponsors > > The meeting is sponsored by : > - Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > - TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > - R?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Research Clusters : culture, patrimoine, > cr?ation > Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > - ICAR Laboratory CNRS - University of Lyon : http://icar.univ- > lyon2.fr > > * Practical informations > > The meeting is public and access is free. The primary language will be > English. > No registration is needed, but, if you plan to come, we would > appreciate if you could send us a very brief email so we can plan the > size of the coffee breaks. > It is possible to have lunch at the ENS-LSH restaurant: tickets are > available at the entrance > (prices : 3,50 euros for students and 10,50 euros for staff). > > * Program > > 9:00 Welcome session > > *Textual corpora session* > 9:20 project Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > 9:30 project Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 9:40 project ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > g?ze > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > 9:50 projects of Ecole Nationale des Chartes > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 10:00 discussion > > 10:40 coffee break > > *Critical Edition session* > 11:00 project ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 11:10 project ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 11:20 project ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 11:30 discussion > > 12:10 lunch > > *Session corpus oraux* > 13:40 project Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 13:50 project Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 14:00 discussion > > *Software session* > 14:30 project ScolastiX > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > 14:40 project Millefeuille > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > ?le-de-France) > 14:50 project ANR Textom?trie > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 15:00 project logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > 15:10 discussion > > 15:50 coffee break > > *Publishing platforms session* > 16:10 project Pers?e > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:20 project Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:30 project Revues.org > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > 16:40 discussion > > 17:20 closing session: state of the French translation of the > Guidelines by the AFNOR group, Jean-Luc Benoit (UMR ATILF, > CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 17:50 end of the meeting > > * Organising Committee > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > * Information and Contact > > web site: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > how to come: http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=en > mail contact: slh at ens-lsh.fr > Address: > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > 69342 Lyon > FRANCE > Subway station : Debourg > phone: +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax: +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > > *************************************************** > > Session publique du TEI Council 2009 - Appel ? participer > > 1er Avril 2009 > ? l'Ecole normale sup?rieure > Lettres et sciences humaines > Lyon, France > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > *************************************************** > > Apr?s Kyoto, Berlin et Galway, la prochaine session publique du 'TEI > Council', le comit? de pilotage des ?volutions techniques de la Text > Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org), aura lieu ? Lyon, le 1er > Avril 2009. ? cette occasion, des initiatives du domaine fran?ais > (projets de recherche en SHS et plateformes ?ditoriales) faisant usage > de la TEI viendront ?changer avec les membres du council. Il s'agit de > faire le point sur leur fa?on d'utiliser la TEI et les difficult?s > rencontr?es : adaptation, guide de bonnes pratiques pour un ph?nom?ne > particulier, ph?nom?nes difficiles, proposition d'?volution des > directives, suggestion de mise en place d'un <term>SIG</term> > (<gloss>Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. Il s'agit donc d'une > rencontre privil?giant les ?changes courts, pr?cis et techniques, > bas?s sur des exemples concrets. > > * Sponsors > > La journ?e b?n?ficie du soutien financier de : > - l'Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > - le TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > - la r?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Clusters de Recherche : culture, patrimoine, > cr?ation Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > - le laboratoire ICAR CNRS - Universit? de Lyon : http://icar.univ-lyon2.fr > > * Informations pratiques > > La journ?e est publique et l'acc?s est libre, les discussions se > d?rouleront principalement en anglais. > Aucune inscription pr?alable n'est n?cessaire, mais si vous envisagez > de venir, nous appr?cierions d'?tre pr?venus par un bref mail pour que > nous puissions dimensionner approximativement les pauses caf?s. > Il est possible de d?jeuner sur place ? la cantine de l'ENS-LSH - il > vous faudra acheter un billet ? l'accueil de la comptabilit? jouxtant > le hall d'entr?e. (tarifs: 3,50 euros pour les ?tudiants et 10,50 > euros pour les personnels) > > * Programme > > 9:00 Accueil de la journ?e > > *Session corpus textuels* > 9:20 projet Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > 9:30 projet Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 9:40 projet ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > g?ze > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > 9:50 projets de l'Ecole Nationale des Chartes > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 10:00 discussion > > 10:40 pause caf? > > *Session ?ditions* > 11:00 projet ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 11:10 projet ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 11:20 projet ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 11:30 discussion > > 12:10 d?jeuner > > *Session corpus oraux* > 13:40 projet Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 13:50 projet Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 14:00 discussion > > *Session logiciels* > 14:30 projet ScolastiX > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > 14:40 projet Millefeuille > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > ?le-de-France) > 14:50 projet ANR Textom?trie > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 15:00 projet logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > 15:10 discussion > > 15:50 pause caf? > > *Session plateformes ?ditoriales* > 16:10 projet Pers?e > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:20 projet Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:30 projet Revues.org > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > 16:40 discussion > > 17:20 Conclusion de la journ?e, et bilan du groupe de traduction des > Recommandations de la TEI par le groupe AFNOR, Jean-Luc Benoit > (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 17:50 cl?ture de la journ?e > > * Comit? d'organisation > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > * Information et Contact > > site web : https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > comment venir : http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=fr > contact mail : slh at ens-lsh.fr > adresse : > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > 69342 Lyon > FRANCE > Station de m?tro : Debourg > t?l?phone : +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax : +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > -- > Serge Heiden, slh at ens-lsh.fr, http://textometrie.ens-lsh.fr > ENS-LSH/CNRS - ICAR UMR5191, Institut de Linguistique Fran?aise > 15, parvis Ren? Descartes 69342 Lyon BP7000 Cedex, t?l. > +33(0)622003883 From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Mar 7 11:35:09 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 2009 16:35:09 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 Message-ID: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon processor. What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means moving to a more Java-based world. On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized stylesheets. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 8 05:46:29 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 09:46:29 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> Message-ID: <49B393F5.4080102@oucs.ox.ac.uk> "Publishing platforms" session for me to chair or respond to, please. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 8 06:22:15 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:22:15 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> As you know I'm in favour of this. XSLT2 is a proven technology with many benefits in terms of simplifying complex transformations. The only drawback of it is that there are a limited number of implementations of XSLT2 processors. However, I think that the stability both of java and saxon mean that at least the current version will continue to exist far into the future. I think moving to Apache Ant for build processes is also a good idea. Best, -James Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching > the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon > processor. > > What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing > could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means > moving to a more Java-based world. > > On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release > of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will > include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered > to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. > > And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", > so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, > that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized > stylesheets. -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 8 06:31:28 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:31:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B39E80.3080006@oucs.ox.ac.uk> for those who follow Sourceforge, the Stylesheets2 directory has been enhanced with XSLT 2.0 versions of all the stylesheets (we did not have fo and latex before), and a number of errors fixed. I am gradually testing them, and rewriting code to take advantage of XSLT 2.0 as and when I see something. Sadly, I cannot yet deliver the HTML version of the TEI Guidelines using the new stylesheets, something to do with multiple output files. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From laurent.romary at loria.fr Sun Mar 8 11:48:27 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 16:48:27 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <8E17C91D-280B-4DC9-8BBC-53F6127E10AC@loria.fr> Could we have a short presentation on this at the council meeting: - main advantages (features) provided by a switch to 2.0 - consequences on the TEI infrastructure; maintenance of one or two sets of stylesheets? - how much of this should be known by the TEI community? Laurent Le 8 mars 09 ? 11:22, James Cummings a ?crit : > As you know I'm in favour of this. XSLT2 is a proven technology with > many benefits in terms of simplifying complex transformations. The > only > drawback of it is that there are a limited number of implementations > of > XSLT2 processors. However, I think that the stability both of java > and > saxon mean that at least the current version will continue to exist > far > into the future. > > I think moving to Apache Ant for build processes is also a good idea. > > Best, > -James > > > Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching >> the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon >> processor. >> >> What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing >> could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means >> moving to a more Java-based world. >> >> On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release >> of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will >> include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered >> to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. >> >> And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", >> so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, >> that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized >> stylesheets. > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford > James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 8 12:32:33 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:32:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <8E17C91D-280B-4DC9-8BBC-53F6127E10AC@loria.fr> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B39C57.40906@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <8E17C91D-280B-4DC9-8BBC-53F6127E10AC@loria.fr> Message-ID: <49B3F321.70504@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Laurent Romary wrote: > Could we have a short presentation on this at the council meeting: > - main advantages (features) provided by a switch to 2.0 > - consequences on the TEI infrastructure; maintenance of one or two > sets of stylesheets? > - how much of this should be known by the TEI community? yes. it can come in the general area of reporting back about the stylesheets which Daniel and I are supposed to do. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 9 10:33:10 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <49B18BDB.2080907@uleth.ca> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE874C@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B18BDB.2080907@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091027530.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> As of this morning, 6 people have voted on the badges http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ with 2 votes for set 1, 4 votes for set 2 [with widths varied so that letter spacing is consistent]. Shall I go ahead and ask the designer to tweak set 2 so that we have a final final set? David On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > I'm with the perfidious anglos--I like the second set, but am happy with both. > Well done. Shall we call it a day on Monday with whatever the majority decides > and then I'll put an announcement up on tei-c.org > > Arianna Ciula wrote: > > I agree with Peter (first set more elegant to my eyes), but I don't feel so > > strongly about this. > > > > Arianna > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter > > Boot > > Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 09:16 > > To: David Sewell > > Cc: TEI Council > > Subject: Re: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions > > > > > > David Sewell schreef: > > > > > Feedback? > > > > > The first set seems more elegant to me, but I can live with either. > > Peter > > > > _______________________________________________ > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > _______________________________________________ > > tei-council mailing list > > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > > > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From ACiula at esf.org Mon Mar 9 10:35:47 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:35:47 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8754@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Hi Laurent, If you still need volunteers and I have the choice, I would be happy to chair any of the following: Session editions Session logiciels Session plateformes ?ditoriales ...but please don't ask me to show off my awful French (it will get better, but it's not ready yet). As a matter of fact, I will be in Lyon on Tuesday night, but I was told by Marjorie there was already a dinner booked after the Digital medievalist round table. Arianna == Dr. Arianna Ciula Science Officer European Science Foundation Humanities Unit 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 F-67080 Strasbourg France Email: aciula at esf.org Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Laurent Romary Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 23:49 To: TEI Council Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation Dear Council, Now it's time to volunteer! Please let me know which session you would like to chair/moderate. More then one volunteer could mean that one is moderating and the other has the duty to think of possible questions/ answers. ++ I would also like to know who would be likely to be around in Lyon on Tuesday afternoon, there may be a dinner for them... Laurent D?but du message r?exp?di? : > De : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > Date : 6 mars 2009 18:28:13 GMT+01:00 > ? : TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu > Objet : TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > R?pondre ? : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > > [version fran?aise plus bas] > *************************************************** > > TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > > April 1st 2009 > at Ecole normale sup?rieure > Lettres et sciences humaines > Lyon, France > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > *************************************************** > > Following Kyoto, Berlin and Galway, the next public session of the TEI > Technical Council will be held in Lyon, on April 1st 2009. The Council > is the elected committee responsible for technical development and > maintenance of the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). > This event will allow French initiatives, research projects, and > publishing platforms using the TEI to discuss their interests with the > members of the Council. Topics will include how to use the TEI and the > difficulties encountered: customization, best practices guide for a > particular phenomenon, difficult phenomena, proposed changes in the > guidelines, suggestions for setting up a <term>SIG</term> (<gloss> > Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. We anticipate a meeting > characterised by brief presentation and discussion, precise and > technical, based on concrete examples. > > * Sponsors > > The meeting is sponsored by : > - Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > - TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > - R?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Research Clusters : culture, patrimoine, > cr?ation > Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > - ICAR Laboratory CNRS - University of Lyon : http://icar.univ- > lyon2.fr > > * Practical informations > > The meeting is public and access is free. The primary language will be > English. > No registration is needed, but, if you plan to come, we would > appreciate if you could send us a very brief email so we can plan the > size of the coffee breaks. > It is possible to have lunch at the ENS-LSH restaurant: tickets are > available at the entrance > (prices : 3,50 euros for students and 10,50 euros for staff). > > * Program > > 9:00 Welcome session > > *Textual corpora session* > 9:20 project Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > 9:30 project Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 9:40 project ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > g?ze > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > 9:50 projects of Ecole Nationale des Chartes > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 10:00 discussion > > 10:40 coffee break > > *Critical Edition session* > 11:00 project ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 11:10 project ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 11:20 project ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 11:30 discussion > > 12:10 lunch > > *Session corpus oraux* > 13:40 project Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 13:50 project Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 14:00 discussion > > *Software session* > 14:30 project ScolastiX > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > 14:40 project Millefeuille > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > ?le-de-France) > 14:50 project ANR Textom?trie > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 15:00 project logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > 15:10 discussion > > 15:50 coffee break > > *Publishing platforms session* > 16:10 project Pers?e > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:20 project Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:30 project Revues.org > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > 16:40 discussion > > 17:20 closing session: state of the French translation of the > Guidelines by the AFNOR group, Jean-Luc Benoit (UMR ATILF, > CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 17:50 end of the meeting > > * Organising Committee > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > * Information and Contact > > web site: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > how to come: http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=en > mail contact: slh at ens-lsh.fr > Address: > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > 69342 Lyon > FRANCE > Subway station : Debourg > phone: +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax: +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > FRANCAIS > > *************************************************** > > Session publique du TEI Council 2009 - Appel ? participer > > 1er Avril 2009 > ? l'Ecole normale sup?rieure > Lettres et sciences humaines > Lyon, France > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > *************************************************** > > Apr?s Kyoto, Berlin et Galway, la prochaine session publique du 'TEI > Council', le comit? de pilotage des ?volutions techniques de la Text > Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org), aura lieu ? Lyon, le 1er > Avril 2009. ? cette occasion, des initiatives du domaine fran?ais > (projets de recherche en SHS et plateformes ?ditoriales) faisant usage > de la TEI viendront ?changer avec les membres du council. Il s'agit de > faire le point sur leur fa?on d'utiliser la TEI et les difficult?s > rencontr?es : adaptation, guide de bonnes pratiques pour un ph?nom?ne > particulier, ph?nom?nes difficiles, proposition d'?volution des > directives, suggestion de mise en place d'un <term>SIG</term> > (<gloss>Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. Il s'agit donc d'une > rencontre privil?giant les ?changes courts, pr?cis et techniques, > bas?s sur des exemples concrets. > > * Sponsors > > La journ?e b?n?ficie du soutien financier de : > - l'Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > - le TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > - la r?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Clusters de Recherche : culture, patrimoine, > cr?ation Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > - le laboratoire ICAR CNRS - Universit? de Lyon : http://icar.univ-lyon2.fr > > * Informations pratiques > > La journ?e est publique et l'acc?s est libre, les discussions se > d?rouleront principalement en anglais. > Aucune inscription pr?alable n'est n?cessaire, mais si vous envisagez > de venir, nous appr?cierions d'?tre pr?venus par un bref mail pour que > nous puissions dimensionner approximativement les pauses caf?s. > Il est possible de d?jeuner sur place ? la cantine de l'ENS-LSH - il > vous faudra acheter un billet ? l'accueil de la comptabilit? jouxtant > le hall d'entr?e. (tarifs: 3,50 euros pour les ?tudiants et 10,50 > euros pour les personnels) > > * Programme > > 9:00 Accueil de la journ?e > > *Session corpus textuels* > 9:20 projet Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > 9:30 projet Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 9:40 projet ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > g?ze > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > 9:50 projets de l'Ecole Nationale des Chartes > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 10:00 discussion > > 10:40 pause caf? > > *Session ?ditions* > 11:00 projet ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 11:10 projet ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > 11:20 projet ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 11:30 discussion > > 12:10 d?jeuner > > *Session corpus oraux* > 13:40 projet Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 13:50 projet Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 14:00 discussion > > *Session logiciels* > 14:30 projet ScolastiX > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > 14:40 projet Millefeuille > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > ?le-de-France) > 14:50 projet ANR Textom?trie > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > 15:00 projet logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > 15:10 discussion > > 15:50 pause caf? > > *Session plateformes ?ditoriales* > 16:10 projet Pers?e > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:20 projet Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > 16:30 projet Revues.org > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > 16:40 discussion > > 17:20 Conclusion de la journ?e, et bilan du groupe de traduction des > Recommandations de la TEI par le groupe AFNOR, Jean-Luc Benoit > (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > 17:50 cl?ture de la journ?e > > * Comit? d'organisation > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > * Information et Contact > > site web : https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > comment venir : http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=fr > contact mail : slh at ens-lsh.fr > adresse : > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > 69342 Lyon > FRANCE > Station de m?tro : Debourg > t?l?phone : +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax : +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > -- > Serge Heiden, slh at ens-lsh.fr, http://textometrie.ens-lsh.fr > ENS-LSH/CNRS - ICAR UMR5191, Institut de Linguistique Fran?aise > 15, parvis Ren? Descartes 69342 Lyon BP7000 Cedex, t?l. > +33(0)622003883 _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 9 10:36:04 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:36:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091034100.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> I would strongly support a migration to XSLT 2.0, which in the long run would, I think, make it easier to maintain the stylesheets and for multiple developers to work on them. David On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching > the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon > processor. > > What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing > could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means > moving to a more Java-based world. > > On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release > of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will > include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered > to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. > > And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", > so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, > that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized > stylesheets. > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From ACiula at esf.org Mon Mar 9 10:37:41 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:37:41 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091034100.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091034100.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8755@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Same here. Arianna == Dr. Arianna Ciula Science Officer European Science Foundation Humanities Unit 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 F-67080 Strasbourg France Email: aciula at esf.org Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of David Sewell Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 15:36 To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 I would strongly support a migration to XSLT 2.0, which in the long run would, I think, make it easier to maintain the stylesheets and for multiple developers to work on them. David On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching > the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon > processor. > > What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing > could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means > moving to a more Java-based world. > > On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release > of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will > include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered > to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. > > And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", > so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, > that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized > stylesheets. > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From laurent.romary at loria.fr Mon Mar 9 10:43:45 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:43:45 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8754@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8754@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Message-ID: <4DAC83B0-8007-430B-A4C6-F06D5FB54BC1@loria.fr> Thanks. No, evrything will be in English (well, French English...) Laurent Le 9 mars 09 ? 15:35, Arianna Ciula a ?crit : > Hi Laurent, > > If you still need volunteers and I have the choice, I would be happy > to chair any of the following: > > Session editions > Session logiciels > Session plateformes ?ditoriales > > ...but please don't ask me to show off my awful French (it will get > better, but it's not ready yet). > > As a matter of fact, I will be in Lyon on Tuesday night, but I was > told by Marjorie there was already a dinner booked after the Digital > medievalist round table. > > Arianna > > == > Dr. Arianna Ciula > Science Officer > > European Science Foundation > Humanities Unit > 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia > BP 90015 > F-67080 Strasbourg > France > > Email: aciula at esf.org > Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > ] On Behalf Of Laurent Romary > Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 23:49 > To: TEI Council > Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call > for Participation > > Dear Council, > Now it's time to volunteer! Please let me know which session you would > like to chair/moderate. More then one volunteer could mean that one is > moderating and the other has the duty to think of possible questions/ > answers. > > ++ I would also like to know who would be likely to be around in Lyon > on Tuesday afternoon, there may be a dinner for them... > > Laurent > > D?but du message r?exp?di? : > >> De : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> >> Date : 6 mars 2009 18:28:13 GMT+01:00 >> ? : TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu >> Objet : TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation >> R?pondre ? : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> >> >> [version fran?aise plus bas] >> *************************************************** >> >> TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation >> >> April 1st 2009 >> at Ecole normale sup?rieure >> Lettres et sciences humaines >> Lyon, France >> >> https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >> >> *************************************************** >> >> Following Kyoto, Berlin and Galway, the next public session of the >> TEI >> Technical Council will be held in Lyon, on April 1st 2009. The >> Council >> is the elected committee responsible for technical development and >> maintenance of the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). >> This event will allow French initiatives, research projects, and >> publishing platforms using the TEI to discuss their interests with >> the >> members of the Council. Topics will include how to use the TEI and >> the >> difficulties encountered: customization, best practices guide for a >> particular phenomenon, difficult phenomena, proposed changes in the >> guidelines, suggestions for setting up a <term>SIG</term> (<gloss> >> Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. We anticipate a meeting >> characterised by brief presentation and discussion, precise and >> technical, based on concrete examples. >> >> * Sponsors >> >> The meeting is sponsored by : >> - Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >> http://www.ens-lsh.fr >> - TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr >> - R?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Research Clusters : culture, patrimoine, >> cr?ation >> Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr >> - ICAR Laboratory CNRS - University of Lyon : http://icar.univ- >> lyon2.fr >> >> * Practical informations >> >> The meeting is public and access is free. The primary language will >> be >> English. >> No registration is needed, but, if you plan to come, we would >> appreciate if you could send us a very brief email so we can plan the >> size of the coffee breaks. >> It is possible to have lunch at the ENS-LSH restaurant: tickets are >> available at the entrance >> (prices : 3,50 euros for students and 10,50 euros for staff). >> >> * Program >> >> 9:00 Welcome session >> >> *Textual corpora session* >> 9:20 project Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) >> Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) >> 9:30 project Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) >> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 9:40 project ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue >> g?ze >> Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) >> 9:50 projects of Ecole Nationale des Chartes >> Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >> 10:00 discussion >> >> 10:40 coffee break >> >> *Critical Edition session* >> 11:00 project ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition >> critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin >> Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 11:10 project ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne >> Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >> 11:20 project ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet >> Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 11:30 discussion >> >> 12:10 lunch >> >> *Session corpus oraux* >> 13:40 project Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction >> Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 13:50 project Corpus oraux de l'ATILF >> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 14:00 discussion >> >> *Software session* >> 14:30 project ScolastiX >> Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) >> 14:40 project Millefeuille >> Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - >> ?le-de-France) >> 14:50 project ANR Textom?trie >> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 15:00 project logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s >> Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) >> 15:10 discussion >> >> 15:50 coffee break >> >> *Publishing platforms session* >> 16:10 project Pers?e >> Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) >> 16:20 project Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs >> Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) >> 16:30 project Revues.org >> Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) >> 16:40 discussion >> >> 17:20 closing session: state of the French translation of the >> Guidelines by the AFNOR group, Jean-Luc Benoit (UMR ATILF, >> CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 17:50 end of the meeting >> >> * Organising Committee >> >> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council >> Laurent Romary (INRIA)] >> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) >> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> >> * Information and Contact >> >> web site: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >> how to come: http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=en >> mail contact: slh at ens-lsh.fr >> Address: >> Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >> 15 parvis Ren? Descartes >> 69342 Lyon >> FRANCE >> Subway station : Debourg >> phone: +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax: +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 >> >> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >> FRANCAIS >> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >> FRANCAIS >> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >> FRANCAIS >> >> *************************************************** >> >> Session publique du TEI Council 2009 - Appel ? participer >> >> 1er Avril 2009 >> ? l'Ecole normale sup?rieure >> Lettres et sciences humaines >> Lyon, France >> >> https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >> >> *************************************************** >> >> Apr?s Kyoto, Berlin et Galway, la prochaine session publique du 'TEI >> Council', le comit? de pilotage des ?volutions techniques de la Text >> Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org), aura lieu ? Lyon, le 1er >> Avril 2009. ? cette occasion, des initiatives du domaine fran?ais >> (projets de recherche en SHS et plateformes ?ditoriales) faisant >> usage >> de la TEI viendront ?changer avec les membres du council. Il s'agit >> de >> faire le point sur leur fa?on d'utiliser la TEI et les difficult?s >> rencontr?es : adaptation, guide de bonnes pratiques pour un ph?nom?ne >> particulier, ph?nom?nes difficiles, proposition d'?volution des >> directives, suggestion de mise en place d'un <term>SIG</term> >> (<gloss>Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. Il s'agit donc d'une >> rencontre privil?giant les ?changes courts, pr?cis et techniques, >> bas?s sur des exemples concrets. >> >> * Sponsors >> >> La journ?e b?n?ficie du soutien financier de : >> - l'Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >> http://www.ens-lsh.fr >> - le TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr >> - la r?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Clusters de Recherche : culture, patrimoine, >> cr?ation Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr >> - le laboratoire ICAR CNRS - Universit? de Lyon : http://icar.univ-lyon2.fr >> >> * Informations pratiques >> >> La journ?e est publique et l'acc?s est libre, les discussions se >> d?rouleront principalement en anglais. >> Aucune inscription pr?alable n'est n?cessaire, mais si vous envisagez >> de venir, nous appr?cierions d'?tre pr?venus par un bref mail pour >> que >> nous puissions dimensionner approximativement les pauses caf?s. >> Il est possible de d?jeuner sur place ? la cantine de l'ENS-LSH - il >> vous faudra acheter un billet ? l'accueil de la comptabilit? jouxtant >> le hall d'entr?e. (tarifs: 3,50 euros pour les ?tudiants et 10,50 >> euros pour les personnels) >> >> * Programme >> >> 9:00 Accueil de la journ?e >> >> *Session corpus textuels* >> 9:20 projet Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) >> Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) >> 9:30 projet Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) >> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 9:40 projet ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue >> g?ze >> Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) >> 9:50 projets de l'Ecole Nationale des Chartes >> Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >> 10:00 discussion >> >> 10:40 pause caf? >> >> *Session ?ditions* >> 11:00 projet ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition >> critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin >> Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 11:10 projet ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne >> Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >> 11:20 projet ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet >> Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 11:30 discussion >> >> 12:10 d?jeuner >> >> *Session corpus oraux* >> 13:40 projet Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction >> Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 13:50 projet Corpus oraux de l'ATILF >> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 14:00 discussion >> >> *Session logiciels* >> 14:30 projet ScolastiX >> Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) >> 14:40 projet Millefeuille >> Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - >> ?le-de-France) >> 14:50 projet ANR Textom?trie >> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> 15:00 projet logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s >> Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) >> 15:10 discussion >> >> 15:50 pause caf? >> >> *Session plateformes ?ditoriales* >> 16:10 projet Pers?e >> Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) >> 16:20 projet Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs >> Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) >> 16:30 projet Revues.org >> Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) >> 16:40 discussion >> >> 17:20 Conclusion de la journ?e, et bilan du groupe de traduction des >> Recommandations de la TEI par le groupe AFNOR, Jean-Luc Benoit >> (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> 17:50 cl?ture de la journ?e >> >> * Comit? d'organisation >> >> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council >> Laurent Romary (INRIA)] >> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >> Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) >> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >> >> * Information et Contact >> >> site web : https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >> comment venir : http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php? >> rubrique51&lang=fr >> contact mail : slh at ens-lsh.fr >> adresse : >> Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >> 15 parvis Ren? Descartes >> 69342 Lyon >> FRANCE >> Station de m?tro : Debourg >> t?l?phone : +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax : +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 >> >> -- >> Serge Heiden, slh at ens-lsh.fr, http://textometrie.ens-lsh.fr >> ENS-LSH/CNRS - ICAR UMR5191, Institut de Linguistique Fran?aise >> 15, parvis Ren? Descartes 69342 Lyon BP7000 Cedex, t?l. >> +33(0)622003883 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 9 11:15:33 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 11:15:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091055590.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Laurent, Am I correct in assuming that the TEI Council moderators for each session will basically have the duties of (1) introducing the speakers; (2) posing some questions to the presenters; (3) moderating questions from the audience? My experience with scholarly editions is as a publisher and manipulater of XML, rather than as a scholarly editor. So Arianna would be better suited to the Editions session, I think. Sebastian requested Publishing Platforms. I have little experience with oral or written corpora. So... I might be best suited to chair Software Session / Session logiciels. Also, if there are more volunteers than sessions, I will not be offended if I'm not on the list. My French is good enough that I can pronounce people's names, institutions, and project titles without doing much violence to the French language, but like Arianna je pr?f?rerais ne pas faire des discours... I'll be arriving in Lyon at Part-Dieu ca. 16:00 on Tuesday, but may or may not have the energy for a formal dinner (arriving via overnight flight at CDG airport that morning, and I don't sleep well on airplanes). David On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: > Dear Council, > Now it's time to volunteer! Please let me know which session you would > like to chair/moderate. More then one volunteer could mean that one is > moderating and the other has the duty to think of possible questions/ > answers. > > ++ I would also like to know who would be likely to be around in Lyon > on Tuesday afternoon, there may be a dinner for them... > > Laurent > > D?but du message r?exp?di? : > > > De : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > > Date : 6 mars 2009 18:28:13 GMT+01:00 > > ? : TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu > > Objet : TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > > R?pondre ? : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> > > > > [version fran?aise plus bas] > > *************************************************** > > > > TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation > > > > April 1st 2009 > > at Ecole normale sup?rieure > > Lettres et sciences humaines > > Lyon, France > > > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > > > *************************************************** > > > > Following Kyoto, Berlin and Galway, the next public session of the TEI > > Technical Council will be held in Lyon, on April 1st 2009. The Council > > is the elected committee responsible for technical development and > > maintenance of the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). > > This event will allow French initiatives, research projects, and > > publishing platforms using the TEI to discuss their interests with the > > members of the Council. Topics will include how to use the TEI and the > > difficulties encountered: customization, best practices guide for a > > particular phenomenon, difficult phenomena, proposed changes in the > > guidelines, suggestions for setting up a <term>SIG</term> (<gloss> > > Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. We anticipate a meeting > > characterised by brief presentation and discussion, precise and > > technical, based on concrete examples. > > > > * Sponsors > > > > The meeting is sponsored by : > > - Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > > - TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > > - R?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Research Clusters : culture, patrimoine, > > cr?ation > > Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > > - ICAR Laboratory CNRS - University of Lyon : http://icar.univ- > > lyon2.fr > > > > * Practical informations > > > > The meeting is public and access is free. The primary language will be > > English. > > No registration is needed, but, if you plan to come, we would > > appreciate if you could send us a very brief email so we can plan the > > size of the coffee breaks. > > It is possible to have lunch at the ENS-LSH restaurant: tickets are > > available at the entrance > > (prices : 3,50 euros for students and 10,50 euros for staff). > > > > * Program > > > > 9:00 Welcome session > > > > *Textual corpora session* > > 9:20 project Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > > 9:30 project Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 9:40 project ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > > g?ze > > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > > 9:50 projects of Ecole Nationale des Chartes > > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > > 10:00 discussion > > > > 10:40 coffee break > > > > *Critical Edition session* > > 11:00 project ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 11:10 project ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > > 11:20 project ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 11:30 discussion > > > > 12:10 lunch > > > > *Session corpus oraux* > > 13:40 project Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 13:50 project Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 14:00 discussion > > > > *Software session* > > 14:30 project ScolastiX > > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > > 14:40 project Millefeuille > > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > > ?le-de-France) > > 14:50 project ANR Textom?trie > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 15:00 project logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > > 15:10 discussion > > > > 15:50 coffee break > > > > *Publishing platforms session* > > 16:10 project Pers?e > > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > > 16:20 project Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > > 16:30 project Revues.org > > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > > 16:40 discussion > > > > 17:20 closing session: state of the French translation of the > > Guidelines by the AFNOR group, Jean-Luc Benoit (UMR ATILF, > > CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 17:50 end of the meeting > > > > * Organising Committee > > > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > > > * Information and Contact > > > > web site: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > how to come: http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=en > > mail contact: slh at ens-lsh.fr > > Address: > > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > > 69342 Lyon > > FRANCE > > Subway station : Debourg > > phone: +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax: +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > > > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > > FRANCAIS > > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > > FRANCAIS > > FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS > > FRANCAIS > > > > *************************************************** > > > > Session publique du TEI Council 2009 - Appel ? participer > > > > 1er Avril 2009 > > ? l'Ecole normale sup?rieure > > Lettres et sciences humaines > > Lyon, France > > > > https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > > > *************************************************** > > > > Apr?s Kyoto, Berlin et Galway, la prochaine session publique du 'TEI > > Council', le comit? de pilotage des ?volutions techniques de la Text > > Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org), aura lieu ? Lyon, le 1er > > Avril 2009. ? cette occasion, des initiatives du domaine fran?ais > > (projets de recherche en SHS et plateformes ?ditoriales) faisant usage > > de la TEI viendront ?changer avec les membres du council. Il s'agit de > > faire le point sur leur fa?on d'utiliser la TEI et les difficult?s > > rencontr?es : adaptation, guide de bonnes pratiques pour un ph?nom?ne > > particulier, ph?nom?nes difficiles, proposition d'?volution des > > directives, suggestion de mise en place d'un <term>SIG</term> > > (<gloss>Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. Il s'agit donc d'une > > rencontre privil?giant les ?changes courts, pr?cis et techniques, > > bas?s sur des exemples concrets. > > > > * Sponsors > > > > La journ?e b?n?ficie du soutien financier de : > > - l'Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > > http://www.ens-lsh.fr > > - le TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr > > - la r?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Clusters de Recherche : culture, patrimoine, > > cr?ation Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr > > - le laboratoire ICAR CNRS - Universit? de Lyon : http://icar.univ-lyon2.fr > > > > * Informations pratiques > > > > La journ?e est publique et l'acc?s est libre, les discussions se > > d?rouleront principalement en anglais. > > Aucune inscription pr?alable n'est n?cessaire, mais si vous envisagez > > de venir, nous appr?cierions d'?tre pr?venus par un bref mail pour que > > nous puissions dimensionner approximativement les pauses caf?s. > > Il est possible de d?jeuner sur place ? la cantine de l'ENS-LSH - il > > vous faudra acheter un billet ? l'accueil de la comptabilit? jouxtant > > le hall d'entr?e. (tarifs: 3,50 euros pour les ?tudiants et 10,50 > > euros pour les personnels) > > > > * Programme > > > > 9:00 Accueil de la journ?e > > > > *Session corpus textuels* > > 9:20 projet Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) > > Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) > > 9:30 projet Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) > > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 9:40 projet ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue > > g?ze > > Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) > > 9:50 projets de l'Ecole Nationale des Chartes > > Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > > 10:00 discussion > > > > 10:40 pause caf? > > > > *Session ?ditions* > > 11:00 projet ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition > > critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin > > Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 11:10 projet ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne > > Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) > > 11:20 projet ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet > > Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 11:30 discussion > > > > 12:10 d?jeuner > > > > *Session corpus oraux* > > 13:40 projet Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction > > Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 13:50 projet Corpus oraux de l'ATILF > > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 14:00 discussion > > > > *Session logiciels* > > 14:30 projet ScolastiX > > Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) > > 14:40 projet Millefeuille > > Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - > > ?le-de-France) > > 14:50 projet ANR Textom?trie > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > 15:00 projet logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s > > Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) > > 15:10 discussion > > > > 15:50 pause caf? > > > > *Session plateformes ?ditoriales* > > 16:10 projet Pers?e > > Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) > > 16:20 projet Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs > > Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) > > 16:30 projet Revues.org > > Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) > > 16:40 discussion > > > > 17:20 Conclusion de la journ?e, et bilan du groupe de traduction des > > Recommandations de la TEI par le groupe AFNOR, Jean-Luc Benoit > > (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > 17:50 cl?ture de la journ?e > > > > * Comit? d'organisation > > > > Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council > > Laurent Romary (INRIA)] > > Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) > > Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) > > Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) > > > > * Information et Contact > > > > site web : https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > > comment venir : http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=fr > > contact mail : slh at ens-lsh.fr > > adresse : > > Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) > > 15 parvis Ren? Descartes > > 69342 Lyon > > FRANCE > > Station de m?tro : Debourg > > t?l?phone : +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax : +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 > > > > -- > > Serge Heiden, slh at ens-lsh.fr, http://textometrie.ens-lsh.fr > > ENS-LSH/CNRS - ICAR UMR5191, Institut de Linguistique Fran?aise > > 15, parvis Ren? Descartes 69342 Lyon BP7000 Cedex, t?l. > > +33(0)622003883 > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Mon Mar 9 11:22:11 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:22:11 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] Fwd: TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091055590.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <007301c99e80$edb4a050$428233c1@intranet.enslsh.fr> <42093DE5-892C-4CDB-8B48-9005CD33928D@loria.fr> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091055590.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B53423.5060708@uleth.ca> Hi Laurent, It sounds like we're mostly covered. Editions is the thing I knows most about. Like Arianna, I'll be there by Monday night for the DM thing. -dan David Sewell wrote: > Laurent, > > Am I correct in assuming that the TEI Council moderators for each > session will basically have the duties of (1) introducing the speakers; > (2) posing some questions to the presenters; (3) moderating questions > from the audience? > > My experience with scholarly editions is as a publisher and manipulater > of XML, rather than as a scholarly editor. So Arianna would be better > suited to the Editions session, I think. Sebastian requested Publishing > Platforms. I have little experience with oral or written corpora. So... > I might be best suited to chair Software Session / Session logiciels. > Also, if there are more volunteers than sessions, I will not be offended > if I'm not on the list. > > My French is good enough that I can pronounce people's names, > institutions, and project titles without doing much violence to the > French language, but like Arianna je pr?f?rerais ne pas faire des > discours... > > I'll be arriving in Lyon at Part-Dieu ca. 16:00 on Tuesday, but may or > may not have the energy for a formal dinner (arriving via overnight > flight at CDG airport that morning, and I don't sleep well on > airplanes). > > David > > On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: > > >> Dear Council, >> Now it's time to volunteer! Please let me know which session you would >> like to chair/moderate. More then one volunteer could mean that one is >> moderating and the other has the duty to think of possible questions/ >> answers. >> >> ++ I would also like to know who would be likely to be around in Lyon >> on Tuesday afternoon, there may be a dinner for them... >> >> Laurent >> >> D?but du message r?exp?di? : >> >> >>> De : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> >>> Date : 6 mars 2009 18:28:13 GMT+01:00 >>> ? : TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu >>> Objet : TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation >>> R?pondre ? : Serge HEIDEN <Slh at ENS-LSH.FR> >>> >>> [version fran?aise plus bas] >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> TEI Council public meeting 2009 - Call for Participation >>> >>> April 1st 2009 >>> at Ecole normale sup?rieure >>> Lettres et sciences humaines >>> Lyon, France >>> >>> https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >>> >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> Following Kyoto, Berlin and Galway, the next public session of the TEI >>> Technical Council will be held in Lyon, on April 1st 2009. The Council >>> is the elected committee responsible for technical development and >>> maintenance of the Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). >>> This event will allow French initiatives, research projects, and >>> publishing platforms using the TEI to discuss their interests with the >>> members of the Council. Topics will include how to use the TEI and the >>> difficulties encountered: customization, best practices guide for a >>> particular phenomenon, difficult phenomena, proposed changes in the >>> guidelines, suggestions for setting up a <term>SIG</term> (<gloss> >>> Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. We anticipate a meeting >>> characterised by brief presentation and discussion, precise and >>> technical, based on concrete examples. >>> >>> * Sponsors >>> >>> The meeting is sponsored by : >>> - Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >>> http://www.ens-lsh.fr >>> - TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr >>> - R?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Research Clusters : culture, patrimoine, >>> cr?ation >>> Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr >>> - ICAR Laboratory CNRS - University of Lyon : http://icar.univ- >>> lyon2.fr >>> >>> * Practical informations >>> >>> The meeting is public and access is free. The primary language will be >>> English. >>> No registration is needed, but, if you plan to come, we would >>> appreciate if you could send us a very brief email so we can plan the >>> size of the coffee breaks. >>> It is possible to have lunch at the ENS-LSH restaurant: tickets are >>> available at the entrance >>> (prices : 3,50 euros for students and 10,50 euros for staff). >>> >>> * Program >>> >>> 9:00 Welcome session >>> >>> *Textual corpora session* >>> 9:20 project Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) >>> Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) >>> 9:30 project Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) >>> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 9:40 project ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue >>> g?ze >>> Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) >>> 9:50 projects of Ecole Nationale des Chartes >>> Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >>> 10:00 discussion >>> >>> 10:40 coffee break >>> >>> *Critical Edition session* >>> 11:00 project ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition >>> critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin >>> Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 11:10 project ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne >>> Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >>> 11:20 project ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet >>> Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 11:30 discussion >>> >>> 12:10 lunch >>> >>> *Session corpus oraux* >>> 13:40 project Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction >>> Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 13:50 project Corpus oraux de l'ATILF >>> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 14:00 discussion >>> >>> *Software session* >>> 14:30 project ScolastiX >>> Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) >>> 14:40 project Millefeuille >>> Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - >>> ?le-de-France) >>> 14:50 project ANR Textom?trie >>> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 15:00 project logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s >>> Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) >>> 15:10 discussion >>> >>> 15:50 coffee break >>> >>> *Publishing platforms session* >>> 16:10 project Pers?e >>> Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) >>> 16:20 project Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs >>> Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) >>> 16:30 project Revues.org >>> Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) >>> 16:40 discussion >>> >>> 17:20 closing session: state of the French translation of the >>> Guidelines by the AFNOR group, Jean-Luc Benoit (UMR ATILF, >>> CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 17:50 end of the meeting >>> >>> * Organising Committee >>> >>> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council >>> Laurent Romary (INRIA)] >>> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) >>> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> >>> * Information and Contact >>> >>> web site: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >>> how to come: http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=en >>> mail contact: slh at ens-lsh.fr >>> Address: >>> Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >>> 15 parvis Ren? Descartes >>> 69342 Lyon >>> FRANCE >>> Subway station : Debourg >>> phone: +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax: +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 >>> >>> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >>> FRANCAIS >>> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >>> FRANCAIS >>> FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS FRANCAIS >>> FRANCAIS >>> >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> Session publique du TEI Council 2009 - Appel ? participer >>> >>> 1er Avril 2009 >>> ? l'Ecole normale sup?rieure >>> Lettres et sciences humaines >>> Lyon, France >>> >>> https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >>> >>> *************************************************** >>> >>> Apr?s Kyoto, Berlin et Galway, la prochaine session publique du 'TEI >>> Council', le comit? de pilotage des ?volutions techniques de la Text >>> Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org), aura lieu ? Lyon, le 1er >>> Avril 2009. ? cette occasion, des initiatives du domaine fran?ais >>> (projets de recherche en SHS et plateformes ?ditoriales) faisant usage >>> de la TEI viendront ?changer avec les membres du council. Il s'agit de >>> faire le point sur leur fa?on d'utiliser la TEI et les difficult?s >>> rencontr?es : adaptation, guide de bonnes pratiques pour un ph?nom?ne >>> particulier, ph?nom?nes difficiles, proposition d'?volution des >>> directives, suggestion de mise en place d'un <term>SIG</term> >>> (<gloss>Special Interest Group</gloss>), etc. Il s'agit donc d'une >>> rencontre privil?giant les ?changes courts, pr?cis et techniques, >>> bas?s sur des exemples concrets. >>> >>> * Sponsors >>> >>> La journ?e b?n?ficie du soutien financier de : >>> - l'Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >>> http://www.ens-lsh.fr >>> - le TGE Adonis : http://www.tge-adonis.fr >>> - la r?gion Rh?ne-Alpes, Clusters de Recherche : culture, patrimoine, >>> cr?ation Cluster 13, http://cluster13.ens-lsh.fr >>> - le laboratoire ICAR CNRS - Universit? de Lyon : http://icar.univ-lyon2.fr >>> >>> * Informations pratiques >>> >>> La journ?e est publique et l'acc?s est libre, les discussions se >>> d?rouleront principalement en anglais. >>> Aucune inscription pr?alable n'est n?cessaire, mais si vous envisagez >>> de venir, nous appr?cierions d'?tre pr?venus par un bref mail pour que >>> nous puissions dimensionner approximativement les pauses caf?s. >>> Il est possible de d?jeuner sur place ? la cantine de l'ENS-LSH - il >>> vous faudra acheter un billet ? l'accueil de la comptabilit? jouxtant >>> le hall d'entr?e. (tarifs: 3,50 euros pour les ?tudiants et 10,50 >>> euros pour les personnels) >>> >>> * Programme >>> >>> 9:00 Accueil de la journ?e >>> >>> *Session corpus textuels* >>> 9:20 projet Bases Virtuelles Humanistes (BVH) >>> Marie-Luce Demonet (UMR CESR, CNRS - Universit? de Tours) >>> 9:30 projet Base de Fran?ais M?di?val (BFM) >>> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 9:40 projet ANR Cornafrique - Corpus de textes ?thiopiens en langue >>> g?ze >>> Richard Walter (UPR IRHT, CNRS, Tours) >>> 9:50 projets de l'Ecole Nationale des Chartes >>> Florence Clavaud (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >>> 10:00 discussion >>> >>> 10:40 pause caf? >>> >>> *Session ?ditions* >>> 11:00 projet ERC History of the French Political Lexicon - ?dition >>> critique de la Cit? de Dieu de Saint-Augustin >>> Jessika Perignon (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 11:10 projet ANR Omnia - le Du Cange en ligne >>> Fr?d?ric Glorieux (Ecole Nationale des Chartes, Paris) >>> 11:20 projet ANR Bouvard&P?cuchet >>> Emmanuelle Morlock (UMS ISH, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 11:30 discussion >>> >>> 12:10 d?jeuner >>> >>> *Session corpus oraux* >>> 13:40 projet Corpus de langues parl?es en interaction >>> Lorenza Mondada (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 13:50 projet Corpus oraux de l'ATILF >>> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 14:00 discussion >>> >>> *Session logiciels* >>> 14:30 projet ScolastiX >>> Marjorie Burgart (EHESS, Lyon) >>> 14:40 projet Millefeuille >>> Jean-Daniel Fekete (?quipe-projet AVIZ, INRIA Saclay - >>> ?le-de-France) >>> 14:50 projet ANR Textom?trie >>> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> 15:00 projet logiciel de cr?ation de documents multistructur?s >>> Pierre-Edouard Portier (INSA, Lyon) >>> 15:10 discussion >>> >>> 15:50 pause caf? >>> >>> *Session plateformes ?ditoriales* >>> 16:10 projet Pers?e >>> Viviane Boul?treau (?quipe Pers?e, Universit? de Lyon 2) >>> 16:20 projet Cyberth?ses/Cyberdocs >>> Kim Dani?re (Universit? de Lyon 2) >>> 16:30 projet Revues.org >>> Nicolas Barts (UPS CLEO, Marseille) >>> 16:40 discussion >>> >>> 17:20 Conclusion de la journ?e, et bilan du groupe de traduction des >>> Recommandations de la TEI par le groupe AFNOR, Jean-Luc Benoit >>> (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> 17:50 cl?ture de la journ?e >>> >>> * Comit? d'organisation >>> >>> Serge Heiden (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> [coordination - en lien avec le pr?sident du TEI Council >>> Laurent Romary (INRIA)] >>> Alexis Lavrentiev (UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> Sylvain Loiseau(UMR ICAR, CNRS - Universit? de Lyon) >>> Veronika Lux (INIST, Nancy) >>> Bertrand Gaiffe (UMR ATILF, CNRS - Universit? de Nancy 2) >>> >>> * Information et Contact >>> >>> site web : https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon >>> comment venir : http://jadt2008.ens-lsh.fr/spip.php?rubrique51&lang=fr >>> contact mail : slh at ens-lsh.fr >>> adresse : >>> Ecole normale sup?rieure Lettres et sciences humaines (ENS-LSH) >>> 15 parvis Ren? Descartes >>> 69342 Lyon >>> FRANCE >>> Station de m?tro : Debourg >>> t?l?phone : +33 (0)4 37 37 63 12 ; fax : +33 (0)4 37 37 62 65 >>> >>> -- >>> Serge Heiden, slh at ens-lsh.fr, http://textometrie.ens-lsh.fr >>> ENS-LSH/CNRS - ICAR UMR5191, Institut de Linguistique Fran?aise >>> 15, parvis Ren? Descartes 69342 Lyon BP7000 Cedex, t?l. >>> +33(0)622003883 >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Mon Mar 9 11:24:26 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 09:24:26 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091027530.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903051432100.43149@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B0DBD0.3050606@xs4all.nl> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE874C@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B18BDB.2080907@uleth.ca> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091027530.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B534AA.7050803@uleth.ca> Yes please, David. And thank him very much! (Actually give me his email address so I can write to thank him as well). -dan David Sewell wrote: > As of this morning, 6 people have voted on the badges > > http://people.virginia.edu/~bc4m/tei/ > > with 2 votes for set 1, 4 votes for set 2 [with widths varied so that > letter spacing is consistent]. > > Shall I go ahead and ask the designer to tweak set 2 so that we have a > final final set? > > David > > On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > >> I'm with the perfidious anglos--I like the second set, but am happy with both. >> Well done. Shall we call it a day on Monday with whatever the majority decides >> and then I'll put an announcement up on tei-c.org >> >> Arianna Ciula wrote: >> >>> I agree with Peter (first set more elegant to my eyes), but I don't feel so >>> strongly about this. >>> >>> Arianna >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter >>> Boot >>> Sent: vendredi 6 mars 2009 09:16 >>> To: David Sewell >>> Cc: TEI Council >>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] TEI badges, near-final versions >>> >>> >>> David Sewell schreef: >>> >>> >>>> Feedback? >>>> >>>> >>> The first set seems more elegant to me, but I can live with either. >>> Peter >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >> >> > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Mar 9 11:49:22 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 15:49:22 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] Message-ID: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on TEI for the next decade would be plausible? Anyone interested in working on such an idea? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Dear colleague, You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops consolidates the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, interdisciplinary topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) organize such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late 2010 or early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to find an earlier date From laurent.romary at loria.fr Mon Mar 9 11:57:19 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:57:19 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <235B2C1C-AAAD-4156-B006-18864B3A2786@loria.fr> It's a very idea. I am full until 17. March though. If you start, I can iterate afterwards. Le 9 mars 09 ? 16:49, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on > TEI for the next decade would be plausible? > > Anyone interested in working on such an idea? > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) > From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> > Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de > To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk > > > Dear colleague, > > You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would > like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or > Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar > discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops > consolidates > the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. > > We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, > interdisciplinary > topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. > Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) organize > such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late 2010 > or > early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to find > an > earlier date > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Mar 9 12:11:32 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:11:32 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B53FB4.1020503@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on > TEI for the next decade would be plausible? > cool. lets do it. plenty of TEI women we can involve. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Mar 9 14:55:05 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 18:55:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what should constitute a P6... I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want to be...) Best, -James Lou Burnard wrote: > It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on > TEI for the next decade would be plausible? > > Anyone interested in working on such an idea? > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) > From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> > Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de > To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk > > > Dear colleague, > > You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would > like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or > Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar > discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops consolidates > the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. > > We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, interdisciplinary > topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. > Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) organize > such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late 2010 or > early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to find an > earlier date > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From ACiula at esf.org Tue Mar 10 05:44:58 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:44:58 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF exploratory workshops... See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html Arianna == Dr. Arianna Ciula Science Officer European Science Foundation Humanities Unit 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 F-67080 Strasbourg France Email: aciula at esf.org Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of James Cummings Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 To: TEI Council Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what should constitute a P6... I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want to be...) Best, -James Lou Burnard wrote: > It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on > TEI for the next decade would be plausible? > > Anyone interested in working on such an idea? > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) > From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> > Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de > To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk > > > Dear colleague, > > You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would > like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or > Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar > discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops consolidates > the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. > > We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, interdisciplinary > topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. > Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) organize > such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late 2010 or > early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to find an > earlier date > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 05:52:38 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:52:38 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Message-ID: <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to get to than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many attractions for a really focussed event. Arianna Ciula wrote: > If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF exploratory workshops... > > See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html > > Arianna > > > == > Dr. Arianna Ciula > Science Officer > > European Science Foundation > Humanities Unit > 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia > BP 90015 > F-67080 Strasbourg > France > > Email: aciula at esf.org > Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of James Cummings > Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 > To: TEI Council > Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] > > > I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before April > 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe that is > the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version 2 (or 3 > or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what should > constitute a P6... > > I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as > well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with > experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members > definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas would > be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) > > As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl Seminar > before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though that was > less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want to be...) > > Best, > -James > > Lou Burnard wrote: >> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop on >> TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >> >> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >> >> >> Dear colleague, >> >> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would >> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or >> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops consolidates >> the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. >> >> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, interdisciplinary >> topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. >> Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) organize >> such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late 2010 or >> early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to find an >> earlier date >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > From laurent.romary at loria.fr Tue Mar 10 06:09:09 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:09:09 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <C9BB2808-3302-4A57-8622-E3006DDAE653@loria.fr> No prejudice on my side. I have put this issue on the Council agenda anyhow (http://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/Council#Draft_Agenda). Le 10 mars 09 ? 10:52, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! > > Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a > slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to > get to > than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many attractions > for > a really focussed event. > > Arianna Ciula wrote: >> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF >> exploratory workshops... >> >> See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html >> >> Arianna >> >> >> == >> Dr. Arianna Ciula >> Science Officer >> >> European Science Foundation >> Humanities Unit >> 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia >> BP 90015 >> F-67080 Strasbourg >> France >> >> Email: aciula at esf.org >> Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> ] On Behalf Of James Cummings >> Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 >> To: TEI Council >> Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals >> (Deadline April 15)] >> >> >> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before >> April >> 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe that is >> the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version 2 >> (or 3 >> or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what should >> constitute a P6... >> >> I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as >> well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with >> experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members >> definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas >> would >> be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) >> >> As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl >> Seminar >> before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though that >> was >> less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want to >> be...) >> >> Best, >> -James >> >> Lou Burnard wrote: >>> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective >>> workshop on >>> TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >>> >>> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >>> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >>> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >>> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >>> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear colleague, >>> >>> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I >>> would >>> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or >>> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >>> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops >>> consolidates >>> the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. >>> >>> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, >>> interdisciplinary >>> topics, and topics that are close to industrial application. >>> Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to (co-) >>> organize >>> such events. A proposed event would be most likely held in late >>> 2010 or >>> early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics we would try to >>> find an >>> earlier date >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 06:14:05 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:14:05 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 In-Reply-To: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8755@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> References: <49B2A23D.7090506@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903091034100.80433@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8755@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Message-ID: <49B63D6D.3050201@kcl.ac.uk> Can't wait (no irony). Elena Arianna Ciula wrote: > Same here. > > Arianna > > > == > Dr. Arianna Ciula > Science Officer > > European Science Foundation > Humanities Unit > 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia > BP 90015 > F-67080 Strasbourg > France > > Email: aciula at esf.org > Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of David Sewell > Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 15:36 > To: Sebastian Rahtz > Cc: TEI Council > Subject: Re: [tei-council] moving to XSLT 2.0 > > I would strongly support a migration to XSLT 2.0, which in the long run > would, I think, make it easier to maintain the stylesheets and for > multiple developers to work on them. > > David > > On Sat, 7 Mar 2009, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >> I am wondering for the next release of TEI P5 about switching >> the build mechanism to use entirely XSLT 2.0 and the Saxon >> processor. >> >> What do people think? I might also see if the basic processing >> could then be rewritten using ant. Nerdy stuff, I know. It means >> moving to a more Java-based world. >> >> On a related note, I am hoping to make a new release >> of Vesta, the desktop TEI processor, next week; this will >> include a complete parallel set of XSLT stylesheets reengineered >> to take advantage of XSLT 2.0. >> >> And, yes, Laurent, Vesta will support processing "profiles", >> so you'll be able to switch between ISO and other modes; yes, Lou, >> that means there will be an ENRICH profile with its customized >> stylesheets. >> >> > > -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo[at]kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk/cch From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 07:07:16 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:07:16 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B649E4.1040306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hiya, Maybe one way to think of these is to have one (ESF I'd guess) be a meeting of experts to discuss what the way forward and future of the TEI should be, and the other (Dagstuhl) be more focused on designing the implementations of that vision with practical outputs. I agree with Laurent that we should discuss it in Lyon. It is only my overcommitment in March and April that is stopping me putting my hand up to volunteer. -James Lou Burnard wrote: > Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! > > Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a > slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to get to > than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many attractions for > a really focussed event. > > Arianna Ciula wrote: >> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF >> exploratory workshops... >> >> See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html >> >> Arianna >> >> >> == >> Dr. Arianna Ciula >> Science Officer >> >> European Science Foundation Humanities Unit >> 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 >> F-67080 Strasbourg >> France >> >> Email: aciula at esf.org >> Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of >> James Cummings >> Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 >> To: TEI Council >> Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals >> (Deadline April 15)] >> >> >> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before >> April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe >> that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version >> 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what >> should constitute a P6... >> >> I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as >> well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with >> experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members >> definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas >> would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) >> >> As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl >> Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though >> that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want >> to be...) >> >> Best, >> -James >> >> Lou Burnard wrote: >>> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop >>> on TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >>> >>> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >>> >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >>> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >>> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >>> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >>> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >>> >>> >>> Dear colleague, >>> >>> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would >>> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or >>> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >>> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops >>> consolidates the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. >>> >>> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, >>> interdisciplinary topics, and topics that are close to industrial >>> application. Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to >>> (co-) organize such events. A proposed event would be most likely >>> held in late 2010 or early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics >>> we would try to find an earlier date >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> >> > -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From laurent.romary at loria.fr Tue Mar 10 07:18:19 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:18:19 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B649E4.1040306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B649E4.1040306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <FF598DD8-51B5-458C-A51B-5643434A482A@loria.fr> Could someone at least volunteer to come with a few ideas/action plan for Lyon? Laurent Le 10 mars 09 ? 12:07, James Cummings a ?crit : > > Hiya, > > Maybe one way to think of these is to have one (ESF I'd guess) be a > meeting of experts to discuss what the way forward and future of the > TEI > should be, and the other (Dagstuhl) be more focused on designing the > implementations of that vision with practical outputs. > > I agree with Laurent that we should discuss it in Lyon. It is only my > overcommitment in March and April that is stopping me putting my > hand up > to volunteer. > > -James > > > Lou Burnard wrote: >> Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! >> >> Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a >> slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to >> get to >> than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many >> attractions for >> a really focussed event. >> >> Arianna Ciula wrote: >>> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF >>> exploratory workshops... >>> >>> See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html >>> >>> Arianna >>> >>> >>> == >>> Dr. Arianna Ciula >>> Science Officer >>> >>> European Science Foundation Humanities Unit >>> 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 >>> F-67080 Strasbourg >>> France >>> >>> Email: aciula at esf.org >>> Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of >>> James Cummings >>> Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 >>> To: TEI Council >>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals >>> (Deadline April 15)] >>> >>> >>> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before >>> April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe >>> that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 >>> version >>> 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what >>> should constitute a P6... >>> >>> I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve >>> as >>> well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with >>> experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members >>> definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas >>> would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) >>> >>> As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl >>> Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. >>> (Though >>> that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might >>> want >>> to be...) >>> >>> Best, >>> -James >>> >>> Lou Burnard wrote: >>>> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop >>>> on TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >>>> >>>> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >>>> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >>>> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >>>> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >>>> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >>>> >>>> >>>> Dear colleague, >>>> >>>> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I >>>> would >>>> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar >>>> or >>>> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >>>> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops >>>> consolidates the state of an area to develop a vision for the >>>> future. >>>> >>>> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, >>>> interdisciplinary topics, and topics that are close to industrial >>>> application. Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers >>>> to >>>> (co-) organize such events. A proposed event would be most likely >>>> held in late 2010 or early 2011. For extremely hot and timely >>>> topics >>>> we would try to find an earlier date >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> tei-council mailing list >>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford > James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 07:54:43 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:54:43 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <FF598DD8-51B5-458C-A51B-5643434A482A@loria.fr> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B649E4.1040306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <FF598DD8-51B5-458C-A51B-5643434A482A@loria.fr> Message-ID: <49B65503.9040602@oucs.ox.ac.uk> I will step forward as co-ordinator of this proposal if no-one else does! BTW, I am not sure I agree with James though -- it will be quite a stretch to get one of these meetings done in a year, let alone two. Also I'd have thought its outputs should be handed over to the Council for implementation. Laurent Romary wrote: > Could someone at least volunteer to come with a few ideas/action plan > for Lyon? > Laurent > > > Le 10 mars 09 ? 12:07, James Cummings a ?crit : > >> >> Hiya, >> >> Maybe one way to think of these is to have one (ESF I'd guess) be a >> meeting of experts to discuss what the way forward and future of the TEI >> should be, and the other (Dagstuhl) be more focused on designing the >> implementations of that vision with practical outputs. >> >> I agree with Laurent that we should discuss it in Lyon. It is only my >> overcommitment in March and April that is stopping me putting my hand up >> to volunteer. >> >> -James >> >> >> Lou Burnard wrote: >>> Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! >>> >>> Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a >>> slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to get to >>> than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many attractions for >>> a really focussed event. >>> >>> Arianna Ciula wrote: >>>> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF >>>> exploratory workshops... >>>> >>>> See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html >>>> >>>> Arianna >>>> >>>> >>>> == >>>> Dr. Arianna Ciula >>>> Science Officer >>>> >>>> European Science Foundation Humanities Unit >>>> 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 >>>> F-67080 Strasbourg >>>> France >>>> >>>> Email: aciula at esf.org >>>> Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>> [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of >>>> James Cummings >>>> Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 >>>> To: TEI Council >>>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals >>>> (Deadline April 15)] >>>> >>>> >>>> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before >>>> April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe >>>> that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version >>>> 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what >>>> should constitute a P6... >>>> >>>> I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as >>>> well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with >>>> experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members >>>> definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas >>>> would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) >>>> >>>> As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl >>>> Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though >>>> that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want >>>> to be...) >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> -James >>>> >>>> Lou Burnard wrote: >>>>> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop >>>>> on TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >>>>> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >>>>> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >>>>> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >>>>> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear colleague, >>>>> >>>>> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would >>>>> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or >>>>> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >>>>> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops >>>>> consolidates the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. >>>>> >>>>> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, >>>>> interdisciplinary topics, and topics that are close to industrial >>>>> application. Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to >>>>> (co-) organize such events. A proposed event would be most likely >>>>> held in late 2010 or early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics >>>>> we would try to find an earlier date >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford >> James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk >> _______________________________________________ >> tei-council mailing list >> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 08:24:52 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:24:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15)] In-Reply-To: <49B65503.9040602@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B53A82.7020900@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B56609.4000200@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE8764@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> <49B63866.3020209@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B649E4.1040306@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <FF598DD8-51B5-458C-A51B-5643434A482A@loria.fr> <49B65503.9040602@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B65C14.3040308@oucs.ox.ac.uk> For the record, I was thinking of one in 2010 and the other in 2011. Nor was I thinking the second would actual undertake the implementations (or have final say on them), just design concrete proposals for how to implement the vague things people had discussed at the 2010 one. I agree that all proposals for implementation should of course to go the council for discussion, voting, and final implementation. But it was just a brainstorming idea. -James Lou Burnard wrote: > I will step forward as co-ordinator of this proposal if no-one else does! > > BTW, I am not sure I agree with James though -- it will be quite a > stretch to get one of these meetings done in a year, let alone two. Also > I'd have thought its outputs should be handed over to the Council for > implementation. > > > > Laurent Romary wrote: >> Could someone at least volunteer to come with a few ideas/action plan >> for Lyon? >> Laurent >> >> >> Le 10 mars 09 ? 12:07, James Cummings a ?crit : >> >>> >>> Hiya, >>> >>> Maybe one way to think of these is to have one (ESF I'd guess) be a >>> meeting of experts to discuss what the way forward and future of the TEI >>> should be, and the other (Dagstuhl) be more focused on designing the >>> implementations of that vision with practical outputs. >>> >>> I agree with Laurent that we should discuss it in Lyon. It is only my >>> overcommitment in March and April that is stopping me putting my hand up >>> to volunteer. >>> >>> -James >>> >>> >>> Lou Burnard wrote: >>>> Looks like a case for entering the same horse in both races! >>>> >>>> Having attended both a Dagstuhl and a ESF workshop, I think I have a >>>> slight preference for the latter -- Strasbourg is a lot easier to >>>> get to >>>> than Dagstuhl and less isolated. OTOH, Dagstuhl has many attractions >>>> for >>>> a really focussed event. >>>> >>>> Arianna Ciula wrote: >>>>> If you need 15 days more to think about it there are also the ESF >>>>> exploratory workshops... >>>>> >>>>> See http://www.esf.org/activities/exploratory-workshops.html >>>>> >>>>> Arianna >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> == >>>>> Dr. Arianna Ciula >>>>> Science Officer >>>>> >>>>> European Science Foundation Humanities Unit >>>>> 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 >>>>> F-67080 Strasbourg >>>>> France >>>>> >>>>> Email: aciula at esf.org >>>>> Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>> [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of >>>>> James Cummings >>>>> Sent: lundi 9 mars 2009 19:55 >>>>> To: TEI Council >>>>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] [Fwd: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals >>>>> (Deadline April 15)] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'd agree that it is a good idea, but don't have much time before >>>>> April 15. Since it is to be held in Late 2010 or early 2011, maybe >>>>> that is the time to start think about what should go into a P5 version >>>>> 2 (or 3 or whatever, we're currently on 1.3.x). Or of course, what >>>>> should constitute a P6... >>>>> >>>>> I'd say that it should cover areas the TEI doesn't currently serve as >>>>> well as it should, and bring together experts in those areas with >>>>> experts in TEI. (Those who have previously been Council members >>>>> definitely should be invited. And hopefully experts in new areas >>>>> would be those who also have some TEI knowledge.) >>>>> >>>>> As with some of the rest of you I've been to a Schloss Dagstuhl >>>>> Seminar before and found it highly informative and engaging. (Though >>>>> that was less focussed on practical work as I'd suggest we might want >>>>> to be...) >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> -James >>>>> >>>>> Lou Burnard wrote: >>>>>> It's rather short notice, but maybe a dagstuhl perspective workshop >>>>>> on TEI for the next decade would be plausible? >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyone interested in working on such an idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>>> Subject: Dagstuhl - Call for Proposals (Deadline April 15) >>>>>> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) >>>>>> From: Reinhard Wilhelm <scistaff at dagstuhl.de> >>>>>> Reply-To: scistaff at dagstuhl.de >>>>>> To: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear colleague, >>>>>> >>>>>> You have been an organizer of a Dagstuhl Seminar in the past. I would >>>>>> like to encourage you to submit a proposal for a Dagstuhl Seminar or >>>>>> Dagstuhl Perspectives Workshop until *April 15*. A Dagstuhl Seminar >>>>>> discusses ongoing research whereas a Perspectives Workshops >>>>>> consolidates the state of an area to develop a vision for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> We particularly welcome topics crossing several areas, >>>>>> interdisciplinary topics, and topics that are close to industrial >>>>>> application. Furthermore, we like to encourage female researchers to >>>>>> (co-) organize such events. A proposed event would be most likely >>>>>> held in late 2010 or early 2011. For extremely hot and timely topics >>>>>> we would try to find an earlier date >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> tei-council mailing list >>>>>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>>>>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford >>> James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk >>> _______________________________________________ >>> tei-council mailing list >>> tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU >>> http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council >> > -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 09:49:37 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:49:37 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] Organising a TEI Council meeting in Helsinki Message-ID: <49B66FF1.7010703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Hiya, Ville from the DECL project in Helsinki has contacted me again and needs to know ASAP if we'd like to organise a TEI Council meeting in Helsinki in spring/autumn 2010. This is because they *may* be able to get some funding to cover a third to a half of travelling expenses for some of the council members. Unfortunately the deadline for this is the end of this month. We are able to tentatively agree now and change our mind later if they don't get funding. While I've just said in an early message that I have very little time, I'm willing to feed back any answers the council might have and liaise with them if we want to undertake to do this. Basically they need answers to the five questions in the message below. My guesses at answers would be: 1) Yes. 2) Yes, though we'd probably be open to giving more papers if necessary. 3) We probably have some specific topics we'd like to talk about, but are also open to suggestions of themes. 4) At least two clear days after the seminar where we have a room, data projector, and preferably wifi. 5) I'm not sure, does someone have just the *travel* costs for a council meeting to hand? But new people will be elected, so 12-14 people with probably the majority from Europe, but some from North America, if funding everyone. If the council thinks it would be good to meet in Helsinki, then let me know in the next couple days what are more official answers to these questions. unfortunately we cannot wait until after Lyon for answers to these. Best, -James > Hi, > We have been doing some planning on organising a conference > seminar on TEI here in Helsinki in either spring or autumn of 2010. > The idea would be to have a two-day seminar with representatives from > as many of the Finnish editing/digitisation projects using TEI or > interested in using TEI as possible and to have the members of the > TEI council as invited speakers. The preliminary idea for the > contents of the seminar would be to have two general lectures by TEI > council members (open not only to participants of the seminar but to > other interested parties as well), introductions of all the Finnish > TEI projects represented in the seminar (c. 30 minutes each, > including questions and answers) and two workshop sessions (anything > form 1,5 to 4 hours) on more specific topics, held by TEI Council > members. Both time and a venue would naturally be provided for the > TEI Council to have their meeting. > > The reason for this planning spree is, that we have a prospect (but > just a prospect at this point) of getting some funding for such a > seminar, which we could use to cover part of the travel expenses of > the TEI Council members (in addition to venues for the lectures, > workshops and the Council meeting, which the organising parties would > provide themselves). The downside is, that organising such a seminar > is contingent on us actually getting some funding for it (as none of > the organising parties can spare the money from their own pockets), > which means that while we would have to have the thing planned by the > end of this month (yes, it's a short notice), we wouldn't yet know > whether we can actually make it happen before the funding decisions > come through (later this spring). I know that the deadline for the > funding application is before the next Council meeting, but would > there be any way to figure out the necessary information during the > next two weeks or so. What we would need to figure out, is: > > 1) whether the TEI Council would be willing and able to come to > Helsinki (either in spring or autumn of 2010) to hold their meeting > (venue provided) and to participate in the seminar if we could get > funding to cover a part (one third to half) of their travel > expenses), > > 2) if they would, does the proposal of giving two lectures and two > workshops for the seminar sound reasonable, > > 3) if it does, would you like us to suggest specific topics or do you > want to suggest something yourself (suitable presentations you have > held before would be perfectly OK; TEI is not yet particularly well > known in Finland, so at least one general introductory lecture on TEI > would be a good idea), > > 4) how much time would you require for the Council meeting itself, > > 5) how much would the travel expenses of the council members be, so > that we can include it in the budget (we can figure out the cost of > accommodation here if you let us know what your requirements are). > > I know this is on a very short notice and I understand if it cannot > be done, but we thought we'd give it a shot. Let me know what you > (and the Council) think of the idea. > > > On behalf of the organising parties, Ville Marttila > -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From laurent.romary at loria.fr Tue Mar 10 10:08:53 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:08:53 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] Organising a TEI Council meeting in Helsinki In-Reply-To: <49B66FF1.7010703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B66FF1.7010703@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <91018E14-EF89-4FAB-8EE4-B4ACBC7B6A6C@loria.fr> Hi James, There is no reason thesitate on this. Spring or Autumn is probably equal for us, given that the prospective funding would allow us to go to the states as well. Please others shout if you think Jmes should not pursue with this, I vote yes. Laurent Le 10 mars 09 ? 14:49, James Cummings a ?crit : > Hiya, > > Ville from the DECL project in Helsinki has contacted me again and > needs to know ASAP if we'd like to organise a TEI Council meeting in > Helsinki in spring/autumn 2010. This is because they *may* be able > to get some funding to cover a third to a half of travelling > expenses for some of the council members. Unfortunately the > deadline for this is the end of this month. We are able to > tentatively agree now and change our mind later if they don't get > funding. > > While I've just said in an early message that I have very little > time, I'm willing to feed back any answers the council might have > and liaise with them if we want to undertake to do this. Basically > they need answers to the five questions in the message below. My > guesses at answers would be: > > 1) Yes. > 2) Yes, though we'd probably be open to giving more papers if > necessary. > 3) We probably have some specific topics we'd like to talk about, > but are also open to suggestions of themes. > 4) At least two clear days after the seminar where we have a room, > data projector, and preferably wifi. > 5) I'm not sure, does someone have just the *travel* costs for a > council meeting to hand? But new people will be elected, so 12-14 > people with probably the majority from Europe, but some from North > America, if funding everyone. > > If the council thinks it would be good to meet in Helsinki, then let > me know in the next couple days what are more official answers to > these questions. unfortunately we cannot wait until after Lyon for > answers to these. > > Best, > > -James > > >> Hi, > > We have been doing some planning on organising a conference >> seminar on TEI here in Helsinki in either spring or autumn of 2010. >> The idea would be to have a two-day seminar with representatives from >> as many of the Finnish editing/digitisation projects using TEI or >> interested in using TEI as possible and to have the members of the >> TEI council as invited speakers. The preliminary idea for the >> contents of the seminar would be to have two general lectures by TEI >> council members (open not only to participants of the seminar but to >> other interested parties as well), introductions of all the Finnish >> TEI projects represented in the seminar (c. 30 minutes each, >> including questions and answers) and two workshop sessions (anything >> form 1,5 to 4 hours) on more specific topics, held by TEI Council >> members. Both time and a venue would naturally be provided for the >> TEI Council to have their meeting. >> The reason for this planning spree is, that we have a prospect (but >> just a prospect at this point) of getting some funding for such a >> seminar, which we could use to cover part of the travel expenses of >> the TEI Council members (in addition to venues for the lectures, >> workshops and the Council meeting, which the organising parties would >> provide themselves). The downside is, that organising such a seminar >> is contingent on us actually getting some funding for it (as none of >> the organising parties can spare the money from their own pockets), >> which means that while we would have to have the thing planned by the >> end of this month (yes, it's a short notice), we wouldn't yet know >> whether we can actually make it happen before the funding decisions >> come through (later this spring). I know that the deadline for the >> funding application is before the next Council meeting, but would >> there be any way to figure out the necessary information during the >> next two weeks or so. What we would need to figure out, is: >> 1) whether the TEI Council would be willing and able to come to >> Helsinki (either in spring or autumn of 2010) to hold their meeting >> (venue provided) and to participate in the seminar if we could get >> funding to cover a part (one third to half) of their travel >> expenses), >> 2) if they would, does the proposal of giving two lectures and two >> workshops for the seminar sound reasonable, >> 3) if it does, would you like us to suggest specific topics or do you >> want to suggest something yourself (suitable presentations you have >> held before would be perfectly OK; TEI is not yet particularly well >> known in Finland, so at least one general introductory lecture on TEI >> would be a good idea), >> 4) how much time would you require for the Council meeting itself, >> 5) how much would the travel expenses of the council members be, so >> that we can include it in the budget (we can figure out the cost of >> accommodation here if you let us know what your requirements are). >> I know this is on a very short notice and I understand if it cannot >> be done, but we thought we'd give it a shot. Let me know what you >> (and the Council) think of the idea. >> On behalf of the organising parties, Ville Marttila > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford > James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From dsewell at virginia.edu Tue Mar 10 13:35:42 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges in PNG/GIF formats; please review Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Everyone, The designer has tweaked the TEI badges with the final wording and format we requested. I have created a display page with them here: http://lister.ei.virginia.edu/~drs2n/Test/TEI-badges.html Please take one final look at them and let me know if you see any problems. I'm already aware of one issue. The designer created these as transparent PNG graphics; the transparency is needed so that the '<' and '>' can float outside of the rectangle. If you look very closely at the difference between the PNG and the GIF format, you'll notice that the PNG is smoother as PNG transparency is subtler than GIF transparency. However, transparent PNG's don't work in some older browser versions, notably Internet Explorer 6 and before (the transparent sections appear in a light blue color). Unless someone has a better idea, I would propose that we make both sets available and put a caveat on the Web page noting that the PNG versions aren't compatible with all browsers. Dan, do you want to find a place on www.tei-c.org to put them? or shall I? And will you contribute text with suggested usage and links? David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 13:38:14 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:38:14 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges in PNG/GIF formats; please review In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B6A586.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> David Sewell wrote: > I'm already aware of one issue. The designer created these as > transparent PNG graphics; the transparency is needed so that the '<' and > '>' can float outside of the rectangle. If you look very closely at the > difference between the PNG and the GIF format, you'll notice that the > PNG is smoother as PNG transparency is subtler than GIF transparency. > However, transparent PNG's don't work in some older browser versions, > notably Internet Explorer 6 and before (the transparent sections appear > in a light blue color). Wouldn't it be better to have the transparent sections appear white in those browsers that don't do transparency? just because that is a more common background colour than light blue? -James -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Mar 10 13:46:37 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 11:46:37 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges in PNG/GIF formats; please review In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B6A77D.5070406@uleth.ca> David Sewell wrote: > Everyone, > > The designer has tweaked the TEI badges with the final wording and > format we requested. I have created a display page with them here: > > http://lister.ei.virginia.edu/~drs2n/Test/TEI-badges.html > > Please take one final look at them and let me know if you see any > problems. > > I'm already aware of one issue. The designer created these as > transparent PNG graphics; the transparency is needed so that the '<' and > '>' can float outside of the rectangle. If you look very closely at the > difference between the PNG and the GIF format, you'll notice that the > PNG is smoother as PNG transparency is subtler than GIF transparency. > However, transparent PNG's don't work in some older browser versions, > notably Internet Explorer 6 and before (the transparent sections appear > in a light blue color). > > Unless someone has a better idea, I would propose that we make both sets > available and put a caveat on the Web page noting that the PNG versions > aren't compatible with all browsers. > Sounds good. With perhaps James suggestion about the alternate background colour. > Dan, do you want to find a place on www.tei-c.org to put them? or shall > I? And will you contribute text with suggested usage and links? > Yes. I circulated a text earlier that I think we can use with the addition of this additional comment about the different versions (perhaps, David, you and I can work out the final copy between us since the intention is clear enough). We should leave the precise placement of the page up to Chris Ruotolo, since she'll have a good sense of where she wants it to go in the site's topology. > David > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Tue Mar 10 13:55:58 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 13:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges in PNG/GIF formats; please review In-Reply-To: <49B6A586.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B6A586.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101346580.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> On Tue, 10 Mar 2009, James Cummings wrote: > Wouldn't it be better to have the transparent sections appear white in those > browsers that don't do transparency? just because that is a more common > background colour than light blue? For the broken browsers, there is no control over the "transparency" color of the PNG--it just shows up as a ghostly blue color. If I were at a Windows machine I could create a screen grab to show the problem, but this page gives some more info: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/pngtest.htm There are workarounds for the problem, but they are up to the webpage author to implement. My informal sense is that more and more Web authors are using transparent PNGs and not worrying any more about the pre-MSIE 7 crowd. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Tue Mar 10 14:05:23 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:05:23 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI badges in PNG/GIF formats; please review In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101346580.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> References: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101326030.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> <49B6A586.2030802@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903101346580.95513@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <49B6ABE3.7060408@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Ah I see. I mistakenly assumed it was just using the original background colour that underlaid the transparency. Mea culpa. I use a sensible browser so don't have this problem. ;-) I'd say yes, just don't worry about the pre-MSIE7 crowd. While it won't look as nice it is hardly disastrous. -James David Sewell wrote: > On Tue, 10 Mar 2009, James Cummings wrote: > >> Wouldn't it be better to have the transparent sections appear white in those >> browsers that don't do transparency? just because that is a more common >> background colour than light blue? > > For the broken browsers, there is no control over the "transparency" > color of the PNG--it just shows up as a ghostly blue color. If I were at > a Windows machine I could create a screen grab to show the problem, but > this page gives some more info: > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/pngtest.htm > > There are workarounds for the problem, but they are up to the webpage > author to implement. > > My informal sense is that more and more Web authors are using > transparent PNGs and not worrying any more about the pre-MSIE 7 crowd. > > David > -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Wed Mar 11 14:59:43 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:59:43 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Tite error Message-ID: <49B80A1F.6040603@uleth.ca> Hi all, How would I go about getting a typo fixed in the TEI Tite customisation (rather than the Guidelines per se)? At http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-exemplars/html/tei_tite.doc.html#punctuation, it says > Standard keyboard punctuation marks should suffice for transcribing > document punctuation except in the case of the ampersand, which must > be represented with the entity reference ∓ in an XML document. ∓, of course, should be & -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 11 15:21:03 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:21:03 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Tite error In-Reply-To: <49B80A1F.6040603@uleth.ca> References: <49B80A1F.6040603@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <49B80F1F.509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> you could just edit it yourself on Sourceforge... :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Wed Mar 11 15:53:17 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:53:17 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Tite error In-Reply-To: <49B80F1F.509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49B80A1F.6040603@uleth.ca> <49B80F1F.509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49B816AD.80609@uleth.ca> Not, if like me, you are an idiot and can't find it. Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > you could just edit it yourself on Sourceforge... :-} > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Wed Mar 11 15:56:28 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:56:28 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] TEI Tite error In-Reply-To: <49B816AD.80609@uleth.ca> References: <49B80A1F.6040603@uleth.ca> <49B80F1F.509@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49B816AD.80609@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <49B8176C.1070107@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Dan O'Donnell wrote: > Not, if like me, you are an idiot and can't find it. > P5/Exemplars/ -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 15 08:00:51 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:00:51 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go Message-ID: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> In preparation for Lyon, I've been doing a sweep through outstanding SF feature requests and bug reports. I'll be posting brief summaries here by category as usual. To start with, we have a few non controversial items which I've categorised GREEN, i.e. it's clear what needs doing and (in my view) non-controversial. GREEN Feature Requests 2517629 Guidelines: @type and @resp in <note> 2510198 Addition of "ll" to biblScope/@type valList GREEN Bugs 2685047 Clarification for Chap iv. About These Guidelines 2682993 Examples of custom elements within ODD 2614643 monogr: content model vs. examples 2556006 allowed content of tagsDecl 2457147 Add less numeric number examples to idno tag in standard These are mostly minor changes to the prose. Unless I hear otherwise by WEDS 18th, I intend to apply the changes proposed on that date. From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 15 08:24:25 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 12:24:25 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action Message-ID: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Here's the list of open items I've classified as AMBER -- i.e. I don't feel we've reached a clear consensus on what to do, either because the proposal is a new one not yet reviewed by everyone, or because it's been discussed a bit with some toing and froing, but no clear mandate for a specific change has yet been agreed on, sfaics. It would be nice to make as many as possible of these GREEN before next week. Could Council members please take a few moments to look at these and in the first instance *vote by email* as follows: YES: change proposed should definitely be implemented NO: change proposed should definitely not be implemented MAYBE: change proposed needs further discussion While I know that everyone will want to add further discussion at the same time, it might make tallying the votes easier if you didn't do so in the same message. You can of course clarify what you think it is you're voting for (or against) if the ticket in question seems vague on the topic. I plan to tally the votes and report back next FRI 20th, but earlier is also good. And email commenting on the MAYBEs should be sent without delay. Some of the older items here have been discussed previously: I apologise if the SF ticket doesn't reflect a consensus previously reached. Please tell me (offlist) to fix that if necessary. AMBER Feature Requests New, not yet discussed: 2673045 new attribute @rational on num 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions Old: discussed without resolution 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) 2055891 Placement of schematron rules 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming 2493417 <idno> coverage AMBER Bugs New, not yet discussed: 2607768 <figure> should be global 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 15 11:50:23 2009 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:50:23 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BD23BF.3050407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Of the ones I think I understand immediately > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier YES > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules (I need to finish proposal on this!) > 2607768 <figure> should be global YES > 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> FOLLOWS ON FROM PREVIOUS > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content YES > 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> NO -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 S?lo le pido a Dios que el futuro no me sea indiferente From James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sun Mar 15 14:24:01 2009 From: James.Cummings at oucs.ox.ac.uk (James Cummings) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:24:01 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BD47C1.3010805@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: > AMBER Feature Requests > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num Yes > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier Yes > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope Yes (but with caveat on Lou's suggestion posted to SF) > 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions Yes (that we should investigate it via TEI Library community.) > > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor Yes. > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) Yes (that we need to re-examine all elements like this and be consistent, as per lou's comment on bug) > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules Yes (that we need to incorporate this, after Sebastian makes a concrete proposal, but that it should be able to be located at (or somehow affect) classSpec, elementSpec, attDef, attList.) Should this be done as part of greater revision of ODD? > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming Yes, but with one of Lou's suggested alternative attribute names. > 2493417 <idno> coverage Yes. > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768 <figure> should be global Maybe > 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> Yes > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content Yes > 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> No -- Dr James Cummings, Research Technologies Service, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk From dsewell at virginia.edu Sun Mar 15 22:42:36 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go In-Reply-To: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0903152154440.3350@Sewell-iMac.local> Lou et al., Re 2517629, "@type and @resp in <note>": what the FR submitter wants is perhaps more than minor as it calls for us to model a (fairly important) markup distinction between a note being transcribed and a note being added. Whatever we add here might be interpreted as "this is how to indicate a non-authorial note in TEI" rather than as a pure example. So you might want to run your proposed addition by us for comment before committing? Re 2556006, "allowed content of tagsDecl". One tactic for disamgbiguation would be to create a second <specList> for <specDesc key="tagUsage"/>, and to introduce it with a tag like "<gi>namepace</gi> has the following child element:". It would be nice if you could just put an indent on tagUsage via <specDesc key="tagUsage" rend="indent"/> but I don't think the current stylesheet will process the @rend. (This is a basic limitation of the specList/specDesc approach to pulling in content, I guess.) David On Sun, 15 Mar 2009, Lou Burnard wrote: > In preparation for Lyon, I've been doing a sweep through outstanding SF > feature requests and bug reports. I'll be posting brief summaries here > by category as usual. To start with, we have a few non controversial > items which I've categorised GREEN, i.e. it's clear what needs doing and > (in my view) non-controversial. > > GREEN Feature Requests > > 2517629 Guidelines: @type and @resp in <note> > 2510198 Addition of "ll" to biblScope/@type valList > > GREEN Bugs > > 2685047 Clarification for Chap iv. About These Guidelines > 2682993 Examples of custom elements within ODD > 2614643 monogr: content model vs. examples > 2556006 allowed content of tagsDecl > 2457147 Add less numeric number examples to idno tag in standard > > These are mostly minor changes to the prose. Unless I hear otherwise by > WEDS 18th, I intend to apply the changes proposed on that date. > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Mon Mar 16 04:35:06 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:35:06 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <AA7B6D09-776D-4025-8638-B4E8CC1D9397@loria.fr> Le 15 mars 09 ? 13:24, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > AMBER Feature Requests > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num Yes > > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier Dunno (ignorance in the manuscript field) > > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope Yes > > 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions yes > > > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor yes > > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) Dunno (need to stdy the FR) > > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules Yes > > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming Yes > > 2493417 <idno> coverage Yes > > > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768 <figure> should be global Yes > > 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> Yes > > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content Yes > > 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> MAYBE > > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Mon Mar 16 06:38:24 2009 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:38:24 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] First day program with chairs Message-ID: <D2FCDCB7-EBDA-40AC-B327-804B9E443A00@loria.fr> Have a look under: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon I have added chairmen/chairwomen, according to the received proposals. There is a double chair for the software session which is bigger (Arianna and David, you can see if one can actually chair and the other gather up naughty questions) From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 16 14:32:51 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] First day program with chairs In-Reply-To: <D2FCDCB7-EBDA-40AC-B327-804B9E443A00@loria.fr> References: <D2FCDCB7-EBDA-40AC-B327-804B9E443A00@loria.fr> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.2.00.0903161427500.20470@lister.ei.Virginia.EDU> Laurent, Will the panelists be asked to send us any sort of abstract of their talks ahead of time, to help us prepare? In many cases there is information available on their project website, but a brief description of what the speakers intend to focus on will be useful to us. David On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, Laurent Romary wrote: > Have a look under: https://listes.cru.fr/wiki/tei-res/public/tei_council_2009_a_lyon > I have added chairmen/chairwomen, according to the received proposals. > There is a double chair for the software session which is bigger > (Arianna and David, you can see if one can actually chair and the > other gather up naughty questions) > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From pboot at xs4all.nl Mon Mar 16 14:42:33 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:42:33 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go In-Reply-To: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BE9D99.9070006@xs4all.nl> Lou Burnard schreef: > 2614643 monogr: content model vs. examples What is the proposed solution? Kevin's premise I think is false: monogr doesn't require author, editor or respStmt. And it shouldn't need those, as the example (monogr holding journal info) shows. An extra example showing a regular book wouldn't hurt. Peter From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Mon Mar 16 21:24:54 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:24:54 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> > AMBER Feature Requests > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num > Maybe. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2673045&group_id=106328&atid=644065 I lean towards yes. But what about the comments at the bottom. Are there other implications? > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier > Maybe. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2672530&group_id=106328&atid=644065 Here I wonder if the problem may involve the semantics of the element name which could be adjusted with some minor changes. What Hugh is really concerned about is that he thinks that some material has locations rather than repositories. Looking at the element description, I see that repository is very manuscript centric--in fact much more than our description of the applicability of the module: Element: contains the name of a repository within which manuscripts are stored, possibly forming part of an institution Manuscript module description: Although originally developed to meet the needs of cataloguers and scholars working with medieval manuscripts in the European tradition, the scheme presented here is general enough that it can also be extended to other traditions and materials, and is potentially useful for any kind of inscribed artefact. So my initial solution would be to broaden the semantics of repository to mean "current location." This is what Lou suggests at the end it is supposed to mean. Perhaps clarify it? > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope > Yes. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2672530&group_id=106328&atid=644065 Seems very sensible with the caveats and suggestions by James and Peter in the comments. > 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions > Maybe~no https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2411994&group_id=106328&atid=644065 This is a major undertaking, IMO. As the note says, we have a canonical way of referencing (by URL). This is a request to map this to another system that would allow third party resolution. Perhaps this is a P5.5 undertaking (i.e. preparatory for P6), but then I'd want to hear a cost/benefit analysis. > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor > Maybe https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2242434&group_id=106328&atid=644065 While I emotionally would want to say yes, gap is syntactically and semantically the janus opposite to supplied. It's description fits the requirements of this request: indicates a point where material has been omitted in a transcription, whether for editorial reasons described in the TEI header, as part of sampling practice, or because the material is illegible, invisible, or inaudible. I wonder if the problem is not the natural language semantics of gap: that sounds like a found problem or a sampling question. What is wanted here is a term that can also cover more deliberateness. If gap had been named "omitted" I wonder if we'd have the problem. Perhaps a change in the description to really emphasise the extent to which this is covered already? So I think probably the answer in the end will have to be reeducation rather than accommodation. That this education will need to be maoist in intensity is indicated by the fact that none of Torsten's learned opponents mentioned gap. > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) maybe. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2209933&group_id=106328&atid=644065 This is an old problem similar to what used to affect w: that is to say if you are transcribing for meaning by indicating am, are you really also transcribing for diplomatic features like unclear? What is striking in each of the cases Gabriel supplies is that he in fact knows what the resolution is, indicating that from the perspective of the text (rather than its diplomatics) the text is not unclear. I'm sympathetic to the processing issues, but found myself working with w that there is some real reason in the current madness. Elena makes a good point in her comment. If we say no here (and even if we don't), perhaps we need to look at abbr? > > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2055891&group_id=106328&atid=644065 No opinion. > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming > maybe. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1954920&group_id=106328&atid=644065 Like to see an example. > 2493417 <idno> coverage > yes https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2493417&group_id=106328&atid=644065 I think Lou is right here in his followup to Peter's long comment on the discussion. Peter is also right, IMO. Which is evidence of a category disagreement. It seems to me that we can implement Laurent's suggestion and Peter's (though I have some caveats on the actual implementation of what Peter wants) side by side. And as Lou says, Laurent's original idea is easy to conceptualise and implement. > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768 <figure> should be global > Yes. https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2607768&group_id=106328&atid=644062 (Just ran into the situation Syd describes adding the badges to tei-c, in fact). I appreciate Lou's point in the comments about graphic already being global: but are not the children of figure also useful wherever graphic is? > 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> > Yes https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2355564&group_id=106328&atid=644062 Because of above. Lou's comment suggestions that he has strong reservations against? > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content > Maybe~yes https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2542813&group_id=106328&atid=644062 I'm leaning to this because I find the "far fetched" example in source forge fairly convincing and not far fetched, having encountered it myself. I find the Bodleian bit less convincing, however, as a rationale. Lou's point in his comment about consistency is important. > 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> > Maybe https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2526505&group_id=106328&atid=644062 I'd have said yes had I not seen the other votes: perhaps I just don't understand the issue. As I understand it, Syd's actually misnamed the bug: his point is that there are some allowable combinations with trailer that seem to be arbitrarily excluded when other combinations are allowed. Perhaps we need some examples, and if none are forthcoming, perhaps we need to consider some of the other potentially nonsensical combinations Syd points out? > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 16 22:53:40 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0903162136340.785@Sewell-iMac.local> [votes follow] On Sun, 15 Mar 2009, Lou Burnard wrote: > AMBER Feature Requests > > New, not yet discussed: > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num MAYBE [will follow up w/comments] > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier YES > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope MAYBE (I don't have enough bibliographic expertise for a strong opinion) >2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions MAYBE (I think we need to discuss this in Lyon) > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor NO > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) YES > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules MAYBE [pending SR's proposal] > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming NO > 2493417 <idno> coverage YES > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768 <figure> should be global MAYBE (this and next need further discussion, I think) > 2355564 <figure> should be allowed inside <trailer> MAYBE > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content MAYBE > 2526505 content model of <div> eschews <trailer> MAYBE -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Mon Mar 16 23:10:10 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] new attribute @rational on num - ID: 2673045 In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0903162136340.785@Sewell-iMac.local> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <alpine.OSX.1.10.0903162136340.785@Sewell-iMac.local> Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0903162255460.785@Sewell-iMac.local> Allowing num/@rational as a complement to num/@value is a simple solution to the problem that would meet many people's needs, but I don't see it as an elegant general-case solution to the problem of associating the textual content of <num> with an unambiguous and/or processable value. Just to take one of the most obvious examples, <p>Is it true that some fundamentalists wanted to define <num>pi</num> as equal to <num>3</num>?</p> You can't express pi with either @value or @rational. It would probably be better for us to defer to a more systematic language like MathML if people need to express complex numeric values, probably by means of a referring attribute. Maybe add <num> to att.declaring so one could point to a chunk of MathML in the header... Anyway, I wouldn't object to adding @rational as proposed by Gaby. I don't think the @value/@valuetype solution will work as complex values will be hard to express as character data. David -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From laurent.romary at loria.fr Tue Mar 17 03:11:52 2009 From: laurent.romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:11:52 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go In-Reply-To: <49BE9D99.9070006@xs4all.nl> References: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BE9D99.9070006@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3C60D8D9-4778-4FCC-9B5A-A62D7F9C6B5B@loria.fr> Agree. This is not a bug. As to the example, would the following one be OK? <biblStruct type="book"> <monogr> <author> <persName> <forename>Leo Joachim</forename> <surname>Frachtenberg</surname> </persName> </author> <title type="main" level="m">Lower Umpqua Texts New York Colombia University Press 1914 Columbia University Contributions to Anthropology 4 and oh yes, I have been wanting a pubDate for a long long time, is the appropriate time to mention this? Laurent Le 16 mars 09 ? 19:42, Peter Boot a ?crit : > Lou Burnard schreef: >> 2614643 monogr: content model vs. examples > > What is the proposed solution? > Kevin's premise I think is false: monogr doesn't require author, > editor > or respStmt. And it shouldn't need those, as the example (monogr > holding > journal info) shows. An extra example showing a regular book wouldn't > hurt. > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From pboot at xs4all.nl Tue Mar 17 06:39:29 2009 From: pboot at xs4all.nl (Peter Boot) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:39:29 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BF7DE1.6080807@xs4all.nl> For most of the maybe/no's I added comments in SourceForge. Lou Burnard schreef: > AMBER Feature Requests > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num Maybe > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier Yes > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope Maybe (favour new attributes) > 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions Yes We definitely need something > > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor No (favour new attr on sic instead) > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) Yes > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules Shouldn't we see Sebastian's proposal first? > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming Maybe (favour other name) > 2493417 coverage Yes (Seems obvious candidate for discussion in Lyon. I can summarize the discussion) > > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768

should be global Maybe > 2355564
should be allowed inside Yes (to 1, not 2. Precise implementation to be discussed) > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content Yes > 2526505 content model of
eschews No (See no immediate need) From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tue Mar 17 08:46:21 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel Bodard) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 12:46:21 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] new attribute @rational on num - ID: 2673045 In-Reply-To: References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BF9B9D.7050305@kcl.ac.uk> I like Peter's solution of @value/@valueType (as I just noted in SF); it's more elegant that my suggestion, and at least *some* irrational numbers can be expressed in cdata (pi, for example). If it is not feasible to implement this in RNG--and would mean, for example, not controlling the content of @value at all--then, obviously, I vote _yes_ for the addition of @rational. G David Sewell a ?crit : > Allowing num/@rational as a complement to num/@value is a simple > solution to the problem that would meet many people's needs, but I don't > see it as an elegant general-case solution to the problem of associating > the textual content of with an unambiguous and/or processable > value. Just to take one of the most obvious examples, > >

Is it true that some fundamentalists wanted to define > pi as equal to 3?

> > You can't express pi with either @value or @rational. It would probably > be better for us to defer to a more systematic language like MathML if > people need to express complex numeric values, probably by means of a > referring attribute. Maybe add to att.declaring so one could point > to a chunk of MathML in the header... > > Anyway, I wouldn't object to adding @rational as proposed by Gaby. I > don't think the @value/@valuetype solution will work as complex values > will be hard to express as character data. > > David > -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tue Mar 17 10:32:52 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel Bodard) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:32:52 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <49BFB494.6030606@kcl.ac.uk> Dan O'Donnell a ?crit : >> 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier > > Here I wonder if the problem may involve the semantics of the element > name which could be adjusted with some minor changes. What Hugh is > really concerned about is that he thinks that some material has > locations rather than repositories. Looking at the element description, > I see that repository is very manuscript centric--in fact much more than > our description of the applicability of the module: > > Element: contains the name of a repository within which manuscripts are > stored, possibly forming part of an institution > Manuscript module description: Although originally developed to meet the > needs of cataloguers and scholars working with medieval manuscripts in > the European tradition, the scheme presented here is general enough that > it can also be extended to other traditions and materials, and is > potentially useful for any kind of inscribed artefact. The point here is not so much the definition of 'repository', but the fact that some text-bearing objects just aren't held by any kind of institution. I think repository *is* a useful concept as apart from just place: something that's in a museum or a library or a university or an auctioneer's warehouse or even a private collection should be recorded explicitly as such. But the repository element shouldn't be required for an object that is a graffito on an outside wall, a text carved into the face of a cliff, the pavement of a street, etc. Or an item now lost, of which all we know is that it was once seen "in a field outside Aphrodisias in the 18th century". >> 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) > maybe. > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2209933&group_id=106328&atid=644065 > > This is an old problem similar to what used to affect w: that is to say > if you are transcribing for meaning by indicating am, are you really > also transcribing for diplomatic features like unclear? What is striking > in each of the cases Gabriel supplies is that he in fact knows what the > resolution is, indicating that from the perspective of the text (rather > than its diplomatics) the text is not unclear. I don't see how the fact that we "know" what the resolution is changes the status of the transcription of the text in this case. I can say that a 'G' is unclear even if I can speculate with some confidence that it must (from context) be a 'G'; even more obviously I can say that a 'G' has been deleted even if it is still perfectly visible on the page. In any case, I can tag a symbol as even if I don't know the resolution of the abbreviation. > I'm sympathetic to the processing issues, but found myself working with > w that there is some real reason in the current madness. Elena makes a > good point in her comment. If we say no here (and even if we don't), > perhaps we need to look at abbr? I'm not sure I get the first part of what you're saying here, but if I do understand then surely the solution is for you to have a rule in your local encoding practice (or schema customization) not to tag text-transcriptional information inside (or abbr, aut sim.) in certain contexts (or just to ignore it in processing). There are clear cases where we *do* need such tagging in core TEI. Best, G -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Mar 17 13:51:32 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:51:32 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BFB494.6030606@kcl.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> <49BFB494.6030606@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49BFE324.5020408@uleth.ca> Gabriel Bodard wrote: > Dan O'Donnell a ?crit : > >>> 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier >>> >> Here I wonder if the problem may involve the semantics of the element >> name which could be adjusted with some minor changes. What Hugh is >> really concerned about is that he thinks that some material has >> locations rather than repositories. Looking at the element description, >> I see that repository is very manuscript centric--in fact much more than >> our description of the applicability of the module: >> >> Element: contains the name of a repository within which manuscripts are >> stored, possibly forming part of an institution >> Manuscript module description: Although originally developed to meet the >> needs of cataloguers and scholars working with medieval manuscripts in >> the European tradition, the scheme presented here is general enough that >> it can also be extended to other traditions and materials, and is >> potentially useful for any kind of inscribed artefact. >> > > The point here is not so much the definition of 'repository', but the > fact that some text-bearing objects just aren't held by any kind of > institution. I think repository *is* a useful concept as apart from just > place: something that's in a museum or a library or a university or an > auctioneer's warehouse or even a private collection should be recorded > explicitly as such. But the repository element shouldn't be required for > an object that is a graffito on an outside wall, a text carved into the > face of a cliff, the pavement of a street, etc. Or an item now lost, of > which all we know is that it was once seen "in a field outside > Aphrodisias in the 18th century". > I guess my problem is that the examples provided all seem to have either a location instead of a repository--a kind of regular contrast that suggests to me that we are really talking about the same thing and that it is the natural language semantics of word "repository" that is getting in the way. If we'd called the element "location" instead, would this problem exist? A manuscript location could be in a library (Location: british library). A graffito could have a non-repository location: "on the south wall of the third stall from the west in the men's room on the second floor of the british library." What I'm getting at is that, like Polkaroo and the male host on the Canadian children's show "the Polka Dot Door," locations and repositories seem never to be seen together (at least not in the examples we're getting): suggesting they might be one and the same thing, in terms of encoding. > >>> 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) >>> >> maybe. >> >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2209933&group_id=106328&atid=644065 >> >> This is an old problem similar to what used to affect w: that is to say >> if you are transcribing for meaning by indicating am, are you really >> also transcribing for diplomatic features like unclear? What is striking >> in each of the cases Gabriel supplies is that he in fact knows what the >> resolution is, indicating that from the perspective of the text (rather >> than its diplomatics) the text is not unclear. >> > > I don't see how the fact that we "know" what the resolution is changes > the status of the transcription of the text in this case. I can say that > a 'G' is unclear even if I can speculate with some confidence that it > must (from context) be a 'G'; even more obviously I can say that a 'G' > has been deleted even if it is still perfectly visible on the page. In > any case, I can tag a symbol as even if I don't know the resolution > of the abbreviation. > > >> I'm sympathetic to the processing issues, but found myself working with >> w that there is some real reason in the current madness. Elena makes a >> good point in her comment. If we say no here (and even if we don't), >> perhaps we need to look at abbr? >> > > I'm not sure I get the first part of what you're saying here, but if I > do understand then surely the solution is for you to have a rule in your > local encoding practice (or schema customization) not to tag > text-transcriptional information inside (or abbr, aut sim.) in > certain contexts (or just to ignore it in processing). There are clear > cases where we *do* need such tagging in core TEI. > I think there is a larger issue going on, but your solution is probably the only way forward since w was expanded to allow non-linguistic content. I certain understand the frustration people feel in these circumstances (having felt it myself). And while I think there is an intellectual reason for not allowing it, I think this is a case where lack of theoretical purity makes one a more pleasant person. So let me change to yes. > Best, > > G > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From dsewell at virginia.edu Tue Mar 17 16:40:20 2009 From: dsewell at virginia.edu (David Sewell) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] new attribute @rational on num - ID: 2673045 In-Reply-To: <49BF9B9D.7050305@kcl.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BF9B9D.7050305@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: I am going to amend my vote on this to YES for @valueType per comment on SourceForge at https://sourceforge.net/tracker2/?func=detail&aid=2673045&group_id=106328&atid=644065 David On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Gabriel Bodard wrote: > I like Peter's solution of @value/@valueType (as I just noted in SF); it's > more elegant that my suggestion, and at least *some* irrational numbers can be > expressed in cdata (pi, for example). If it is not feasible to implement this > in RNG--and would mean, for example, not controlling the content of @value at > all--then, obviously, I vote _yes_ for the addition of @rational. > > G > > David Sewell a ?crit : > > Allowing num/@rational as a complement to num/@value is a simple solution to > > the problem that would meet many people's needs, but I don't see it as an > > elegant general-case solution to the problem of associating the textual > > content of with an unambiguous and/or processable value. Just to take > > one of the most obvious examples, > > > >

Is it true that some fundamentalists wanted to define > > pi as equal to 3?

> > > > You can't express pi with either @value or @rational. It would probably be > > better for us to defer to a more systematic language like MathML if people > > need to express complex numeric values, probably by means of a referring > > attribute. Maybe add to att.declaring so one could point to a chunk of > > MathML in the header... > > > > Anyway, I wouldn't object to adding @rational as proposed by Gaby. I don't > > think the @value/@valuetype solution will work as complex values will be > > hard to express as character data. > > > > David > > > > -- David Sewell, Editorial and Technical Manager ROTUNDA, The University of Virginia Press PO Box 801079, Charlottesville, VA 22904-4318 USA Courier: 310 Old Ivy Way, Suite 302, Charlottesville VA 22903 Email: dsewell at virginia.edu Tel: +1 434 924 9973 Web: http://rotunda.upress.virginia.edu/ From gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tue Mar 17 19:36:20 2009 From: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk (Gabriel BODARD) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:36:20 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BFE324.5020408@uleth.ca> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> <49BFB494.6030606@kcl.ac.uk> <49BFE324.5020408@uleth.ca> Message-ID: <49C033F4.4070904@kcl.ac.uk> Dan O'Donnell wrote: > What I'm getting at is that, like Polkaroo and the male host on the > Canadian children's show "the Polka Dot Door," locations and > repositories seem never to be seen together (at least not in the > examples we're getting): suggesting they might be one and the same > thing, in terms of encoding. Even if it were true that repositories and locations never existed in tandem for a single manuscript or object, that would not mean that they were synonyms. The repository is the institution (or individual, or entity) that holds, owns, or curates the object; that supplies it was an inventory or accession number; that grants permission to consult or photograph it. The location may be a set of geographical coordinates; as approximate as a city or as granular as a corner of a field; an address; a building; a venue. An object held by the British Museum has a BM inventory number, but may be in any of a number of locations--different buildings, depositories, or even countries (on permanent loan in Kyoto, Japan). An object held by the Museum of Aphrodisias has an Aph Inv No, but may be _in situ_ in the city walls several hundred metres from the museum itself. Both are useful pieces of information. But not all objects have both. (For that matter, not all objects have _either_.) G -- Dr Gabriel BODARD (Epigrapher & Digital Classicist) Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Email: gabriel.bodard at kcl.ac.uk Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 Fax: +44 (0)20 7848 2980 http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/ From daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca Tue Mar 17 19:38:41 2009 From: daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca (Dan O'Donnell) Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:38:41 -0600 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49C033F4.4070904@kcl.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> <49BEFBE6.2030809@uleth.ca> <49BFB494.6030606@kcl.ac.uk> <49BFE324.5020408@uleth.ca> <49C033F4.4070904@kcl.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49C03481.4000804@uleth.ca> Gabriel BODARD wrote: > Dan O'Donnell wrote: > > >> What I'm getting at is that, like Polkaroo and the male host on the >> Canadian children's show "the Polka Dot Door," locations and >> repositories seem never to be seen together (at least not in the >> examples we're getting): suggesting they might be one and the same >> thing, in terms of encoding. >> > > Even if it were true that repositories and locations never existed in > tandem for a single manuscript or object, that would not mean that they > were synonyms. The repository is the institution (or individual, or > entity) that holds, owns, or curates the object; that supplies it was an > inventory or accession number; that grants permission to consult or > photograph it. The location may be a set of geographical coordinates; as > approximate as a city or as granular as a corner of a field; an address; > a building; a venue. An object held by the British Museum has a BM > inventory number, but may be in any of a number of locations--different > buildings, depositories, or even countries (on permanent loan in Kyoto, > Japan). An object held by the Museum of Aphrodisias has an Aph Inv No, > but may be _in situ_ in the city walls several hundred metres from the > museum itself. Both are useful pieces of information. But not all > objects have both. (For that matter, not all objects have _either_.) > > G > Let's say repository didn't exist. Would a general purpose location tag work? > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Chair and CEO, Text Encoding Initiative (http://www.tei-c.org/) Founding Director, Digital Medievalist Project (http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/) Chair, Electronic Editions Advisory Board, Medieval Academy of America Vox: +1 403 329-2377 Fax: +1 403 382-7191 (non-confidental) Home Page: http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ From ACiula at esf.org Wed Mar 18 04:39:34 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 09:39:34 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go In-Reply-To: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCEDF3.9050202@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE87C6@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> Sorry for the delay, but these seem all fine to me. Arianna == Dr. Arianna Ciula Science Officer European Science Foundation Humanities Unit 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 F-67080 Strasbourg France Email: aciula at esf.org Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Lou Burnard Sent: dimanche 15 mars 2009 13:01 To: TEI Council Subject: [tei-council] GREEN for go In preparation for Lyon, I've been doing a sweep through outstanding SF feature requests and bug reports. I'll be posting brief summaries here by category as usual. To start with, we have a few non controversial items which I've categorised GREEN, i.e. it's clear what needs doing and (in my view) non-controversial. GREEN Feature Requests 2517629 Guidelines: @type and @resp in 2510198 Addition of "ll" to biblScope/@type valList GREEN Bugs 2685047 Clarification for Chap iv. About These Guidelines 2682993 Examples of custom elements within ODD 2614643 monogr: content model vs. examples 2556006 allowed content of tagsDecl 2457147 Add less numeric number examples to idno tag in standard These are mostly minor changes to the prose. Unless I hear otherwise by WEDS 18th, I intend to apply the changes proposed on that date. _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From ACiula at esf.org Wed Mar 18 05:46:05 2009 From: ACiula at esf.org (Arianna Ciula) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 10:46:05 +0100 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <43E779A15D6EC343B1079EB25322088363CBCE87C8@esf-e2k7.strasbourg.esf.org> 2673045 new attribute @rational on num YES for @valueType but I would also add in the prose of the guidelines the recommendation to use MathML or similar for complex cases 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier YES (location is different from repository; this is why we have to record the eventuality of location different from holding repository) 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope YES (agree with James as said in SourceForge) 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions YES 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor MAY BE (it's evident from SourceForge comments that we need to discuss this at the meeting) 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) YES (more discussion needed on content models of similar elements as mentioned) 2055891 Placement of schematron rules YES (and more discussion needed after we have a/some proposal/s) 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming MAY BE (yes, in favour of refRole or function as per my comment to the list http://lists.village.virginia.edu/pipermail/tei-council/2009/010348.html) 2493417 coverage YES (involve librarian gurus again as for 2411994?) 2607768
should be global YES (I was in favour of this before being member of the council and again especially for manuscript encoding situations, but it will be a pain to find the comment I am thinking of on TEI-L) 2355564
should be allowed inside MAY BE (this is related to the one above and may be solved by it or need more discussion) 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content YES (with Lou's caveat) 2526505 content model of
eschews MAY BE (no) Arianna == Dr. Arianna Ciula Science Officer European Science Foundation Humanities Unit 1 quai Lezay Marn?sia BP 90015 F-67080 Strasbourg France Email: aciula at esf.org Tel: +33 (0) 388767104 -----Original Message----- From: tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:tei-council-bounces at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Lou Burnard Sent: dimanche 15 mars 2009 13:24 To: TEI Council Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action Here's the list of open items I've classified as AMBER -- i.e. I don't feel we've reached a clear consensus on what to do, either because the proposal is a new one not yet reviewed by everyone, or because it's been discussed a bit with some toing and froing, but no clear mandate for a specific change has yet been agreed on, sfaics. It would be nice to make as many as possible of these GREEN before next week. Could Council members please take a few moments to look at these and in the first instance *vote by email* as follows: YES: change proposed should definitely be implemented NO: change proposed should definitely not be implemented MAYBE: change proposed needs further discussion While I know that everyone will want to add further discussion at the same time, it might make tallying the votes easier if you didn't do so in the same message. You can of course clarify what you think it is you're voting for (or against) if the ticket in question seems vague on the topic. I plan to tally the votes and report back next FRI 20th, but earlier is also good. And email commenting on the MAYBEs should be sent without delay. Some of the older items here have been discussed previously: I apologise if the SF ticket doesn't reflect a consensus previously reached. Please tell me (offlist) to fix that if necessary. AMBER Feature Requests New, not yet discussed: 2673045 new attribute @rational on num 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions Old: discussed without resolution 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) 2055891 Placement of schematron rules 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming 2493417 coverage AMBER Bugs New, not yet discussed: 2607768
should be global 2355564
should be allowed inside 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content 2526505 content model of
eschews _______________________________________________ tei-council mailing list tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council From elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk Wed Mar 18 12:57:07 2009 From: elena.pierazzo at kcl.ac.uk (Elena Pierazzo) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:57:07 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] AMBER for your action In-Reply-To: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49BCF379.6030302@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <49C127E3.20901@kcl.ac.uk> Hi, sorry for the delay! > 2673045 new attribute @rational on num > YES (with @valueType) > 2672530 Remove repository element requirement in msIdentifier > YES > 2640345 add first and last page recommandation for biblScope > YES > 2411994 Define canonical way of referencing TEI element definitions > YES > Old: discussed without resolution > > 2242434 element for text suppressed by the editor > YES. with an attribute is like saying that the source is actually wrong ('contains text reproduced although apparently incorrect or inaccurate'). Sometimes an editor can decide to suppress the text for other reasons (part of a different tradition which crosses with the one considered, different scope of the edition, extra leave binded in the ms, etc.) so I would prefer an element on its own. I wont be at the meeting, so If I can rise my hands and my feet here... > 2209933 content model of 'am' (cf bug 2542813) > YES: please let's discuss also related elements > 2055891 Placement of schematron rules > I would wait for Sebastian proposal, but in general YES > 1954920 @role to be returned to att.naming > YES, I like @refRole > 2493417 coverage > > YES > AMBER Bugs > > New, not yet discussed: > > 2607768
should be global > YES > 2355564
should be allowed inside > connected to the previous one, therefore YES > 2542813 origDate should allow more than text content > YES > 2526505 content model of
eschews > _ MAYBE > ______________________________________________ > tei-council mailing list > tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > -- Dr Elena Pierazzo Research Associate Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL Phone: 0207-848-1949 Fax: 0207-848-2980 elena.pierazzo[at]kcl.ac.uk www.kcl.ac.uk/cch From lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 19 13:05:33 2009 From: lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 17:05:33 +0000 Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: vs. ] Message-ID: <49C27B5D.5030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Council members may like to mull over whether or not we should reconsider @place="foot"... it is actually used passim in the Guidelines source :-( -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: vs. Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:42:50 +0000 From: Sebastian Rahtz Reply-To: Sebastian Rahtz To: TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu Stefan Krause wrote: > we have to encode documents with simple footnotes. While the P5 > documentation > (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CO.html#CONO) > and the rng schema recommend , the > html-stylesheets only work well with (which is > also mentioned in the guidelines, see > http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/html/SA.html#SAPT). > > Is there a "right" way to encode footnotes, or are there some > semantic differences between "bottom" and "foot"? > The Technical Council decided in its infinite wisdom to prefer 'bottom' to 'foot'. A portion of the Guidelines needs to be updated (SA), which will happen shortly, and my stylesheets need to be updated to support 'bottom'. Which, indeed, they now do if you look at Sourceforge. Thanks for spotting the inconsistency! -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager, Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pfs-listmail at umich.edu Thu Mar 19 15:45:06 2009 From: pfs-listmail at umich.edu (Paul F. Schaffner) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [tei-council] [Fwd: Re: vs. ] In-Reply-To: <49C27B5D.5030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <49C27B5D.5030407@oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Mar 2009, Lou Burnard wrote: > Council members may like to mull over whether or not we should > reconsider @place="foot"... it is actually used passim in the Guidelines > source :-( Just so I'm clear, these are our suggested values, right? o below (below the line) o bottom (at the foot of the page) o margin (in the margin (left, right, or both)) o top (at the top of the page) o opposite (on the opposite, i.e. facing, page) o overleaf (on the other side of the leaf) o above (above the line) o end (at the end of e.g. chapter or volume.) o inline (within the body of the text.) o inspace (in a predefined space) My questions would be: -- What exactly is the force of 'suggested'? If it is weak, if the values are merely illustrative, then I do not suppose it matters much what specific terms are suggested. -- Thinking of the notes I deal with (or avert my gaze from) every day, there are many common @places not included in this list. Aside from foot (and yes, we use 'foot') = at the foot of the page; there are notes at the bottom of other sub-div units, e.g. notes after each stanza of a poem, or after each paragraph; shoulder notes; mixed notes that begin as interlinears and spread down the margin to the foot of the page and then spread across the page; notes placed opposite the text in what amounts to another column of the same table; notes at the end of the div, or of the superordinate div, or of the volume, or the book; notes above the word (as opposed to above the line); etc. Given their infinite variety, how much should we worry about suggesting a few values anyway? -- Does we make any specific recommendations for distinguishing between multiple note series in the same general location? In the example from the Dunciad, the tagger distinguished the two sets of footnotes using @type, but is that generalizable? I shouldn't think so; the example might even be misleading in that regard. What does one do when the two series are of essentially the same @type (e.g. 'textual') but nevertheless of distinct series? (TCP uses numbers affixed to the @place value, e.g. place="foot1" vs. place="foot2" to distinguish series; this is of course a kludge, like most of what we do!). -- Do we make any specific recommendations for distinguishing between note series based on the character or rendering of their markers? E.g., an alphabetical series of notes alongside a numeric series vs. an asterisk-flagged series, all in the margin, like in the 1602 Geneva Bible. -- Do we make any provision for recording the 'running' labels associated with marginal or foot notes. (Again as in the Dunciad example, which uses @type, or frequently found at the head of the margin on every page). Is this an or something else? (We tend to 'distribute' such labels, rather unhappily, into each note in the series as a