Guidelines

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of John > Unsworth > Sent: 08 January 2003 20:56 > To: TEI Council > Subject: agenda items for 1/21/03 conference call > > > Please send me agenda items for our conference call on January > 21st. Also, > do Council members want another series of reports from the workgroups in > this call? In particular, should I invite Chris Ruotolo to join us? And > for the record, I have asked the manuscript description workgroup > chairs to > submit final materials by this date, or failing that, to give us > a date by > which the Council can expect them. > > John > > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Jan 20 15:52:13 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 15:52:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: agenda items for 1/21/03 conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't seen the agenda yet, but here is the webpage I set up with instructions for the conference call: Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Burnard Towers wrote: > Have I missed the posting which announces the final agenda for tomorrow's > call? > Does it also include details of how to connect to the call? > > Sebastian is unlikely to be able to participate as he has a major throat > infection, but I will be calling in to... whatever the number to call into > is between 1300 and 1400 local UK time. > > > L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of John > > Unsworth > > Sent: 08 January 2003 20:56 > > To: TEI Council > > Subject: agenda items for 1/21/03 conference call > > > > > > Please send me agenda items for our conference call on January > > 21st. Also, > > do Council members want another series of reports from the workgroups in > > this call? In particular, should I invite Chris Ruotolo to join us? And > > for the record, I have asked the manuscript description workgroup > > chairs to > > submit final materials by this date, or failing that, to give us > > a date by > > which the Council can expect them. > > > > John > > > > > > > > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 20 19:13:38 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 00:13:38 -0000 Subject: possible workgroup (agenda item) In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030109154454.044d5178@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: In my opinion, before answering this question the council needs to address the wider issue of including other namespaces within TEI, which was raised briefly at the last meeting. That's not to say that the idea of producing recommendations on how to integrate SVG into TEI is not a good one. Au contraire, it's a good one, which others have already proposed. I am not sure whether or not Patrick is the right person to chair such a workgroup. His enthusiasm productivity and expertise are not in doubt, but he doesn't strike me as having all the diplomacy or eloquence one might wish for.

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of John > Unsworth > Sent: 09 January 2003 20:47 > To: TEI Council > Subject: possible workgroup (agenda item) > > > I send this exchange with Patrick Durusau as an agenda item for our > conference call. I haven't heard back from Lou or Syd on this yet, but > I've told Patrick we'd discuss it in the conference call. He's > proposing a > workgroup to revise the P4 chapter on trees and graphs, for P5, focusing > the revision on integration with SVG. I'll be looking for your feedback > on whether this is a good idea, whether Patrick's the right > person to chair > it, and so on. > > John > > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:56:44 -0500 > >From: Patrick Durusau > >Reply-To: pdurusau at emory.edu > >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.4) > Gecko/20010914 > >X-Accept-Language: en-us > >To: John Unsworth > >Subject: Re: TEI plans for 2003, topic maps, check? ;-) > > > > > >John, > > > >John Unsworth wrote: > > > >>Hi Patrick, > >> > >>I've sent mail to Lou and Syd on the question of SVG and the > trees/graphs > >>chapter in the guidelines. There is an overall push to bring > P5 in line > >>with recent xml-type standards, and this kind of a revision would fit > >>with that goal; do you see any obvious sources of funding for a > >>workgroup in this area? > > > >Don't know how they would react but the W3C would be my first > stop. Pitch > >would be getting their standards used in other standards. Probably good > >for some conference calling support and some of their technical gurus as > >part of the working group. > > > >Otherwise, consider compiling a list of the implementors from: > >http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/SVG-Implementations.htm8. Pitch > here would > >be that they would get greater publicity in the academic market. > > > >Do you have some rough guidelines for what it takes to support a working > >group? Need to have some fixed items and costs so people will know what > >their $$$ is buying. > > > >Big names from the SVG work, would be an obvious drawing card. Dean > >Jackson spoke at the Unicode conference last Fall and was interested in > >its use to do Egyptian Hieroglyphics so I suspect he may be a closet > >academic. ;-) > > > >In general I would suggest drawing up a fairly aggressive (and limited) > >scope for the work on say trees/graphs that would result in high > >visibility short term results. > > > >Oh, ACM, Association of Computing Machinery or IEEE, since they > both use a > >lot of graphs/trees in their online publications or even Springer-Verlag > >(they have used SGML for article/book mss. for years, might be > interested > >in incorporating SVG into their DTDs) or others in the STM area. > > > >Offer: If you can get someone to put together a rough budget and work > >plan, I would be willing to put together the start of a contact list, > >sometimes names and email addresses, sometimes just web addresses of > >companies, along with pitch outlines by category for say 50 possible > >supporters for trees/graphs work by TEI. After I send you the list, the > >core TEI group looks to see who knows the people or firms > listed. (On the > >premise that personal contacts are more productive than cold calls.) I > >would be willing to take on up to 15 contacts from the list for > contacting > >to support the new working group. > > > >Suggested calendar: > > > >1. Rough budget and work plan : March 31st (John) > > > >2. Rough contact list: March 31st (Patrick) > > > >3. Sorted contact list with assignments: April 30th > (John/Patrick/core group) > > > >4. Reveiw contact progress and develop working group announcement: May > >31st (John/Patrick/core group) > > > >5. Announce new working group, sponsors, etc.: June 30th (yes, > corresponds > >with end of 2nd quarter) (Consortium, perhaps some public event?) > > > > > >The real trick will be getting one of the principals behind the standard > >to step up and we can shame the others into joining. > > > >> > >>Thanks for the URL on the topicmap stuff--I have looked at it briefly, > >>and I'll go back and spend more time on it as soon as I have some. > > > >FYI, the lead developer hopes to have it in shape to start > inviting others > >on board by late February. > > > >> > >>And on the question of the honoraria for the ETE volume--those checks > >>should by now be in the mail. > > > >Thanks! > > > >New Topic: > > > >The American Bible Society is at least considering funding some > major text > >encoding and tools in the near future. Details are uncertain (at > best) but > >may include an annotation tool based solely upon XLink/XPointer. > (Yes, you > >can assume that Steve DeRose will be leading that effort.) Might be some > >wiggle room to get some support for redrafting of the relevant sections > >for P5 into that overall effort. Too early to tell but I will > keep you advised. > > > >Hope the New Year is off to a great start! > > > >Patrick > > > >> > >>John > > > > > >-- > >Patrick Durusau > >Director of Research and Development > >Society of Biblical Literature > >pdurusau at emory.edu > > > > > > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 20 19:25:57 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 Jan 2003 00:25:57 +0000 Subject: possible workgroup (agenda item) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1043108756.27888.10.camel@spqr-dell> My feeling about Patrick's proposal was that it was too low-level. There are two separate things here: a) whether and how to re-write the graph/tree chapter b) how to reference foreign namespaces in the TEI whereas Patrick is assuming that a) is accomplished simply by working out how to do trees and graphs in SVG. But SVG is a graphics language; it is a re-expresssion of PostScript or PDF in a XML syntax, it does not deal in high-level computation. Making a good tree needs a good abstract syntax, and then a clever tree engine; the output from that might well be low-level SVG, or not. Embedding foreign namespaces in TEI is, in some ways, a non-subject. You just "do it". The demonstration Relax and W3C schemas at http://www.tei-c.org/Schemas/RelaxNG/P4X/ show how to use SVG and MathML in TEI contexts (they also show how to rename TEI elements in schema, if Lou has exported the development server to the real world in the last day or two). While the tool support for schemas is iffy, to say the least, the principle is simple.

-- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 20 20:33:37 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:33:37 -0500 Subject: conference call agenda Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030120190002.027d66d8@j.mail.virginia.edu> TEI Council Conference Call, January 21, 2003: (my apologies for the lateness of this memo--today was our first day of classes, and I'm just back from three conferences since Christmas.)

Instructions for calling in are at: http://www.indiana.edu/~letrs/tei/confcall.html The call will take place at the usual time--1 pm UTC (adjust for your local time...which you can do at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html). The agenda (below) is for a 90-minute call. As a reminder, 5 am in California 8 am in Indiana and on the East Coast 1 pm in London and elsewhere in that time zone and so on, until 10 pm in Japan. Minutes from our last meeting are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm03.html

Agenda for this meeting: 1. Report on action items from last meeting: (15 minutes) A. Syd was to have revised minutes from tcm02. Report? -- Syd B. Lou and John resolve the technical editor position, for SGML migration workgroup (done) -- John C. Christian and workgroup to have drafted document on attribute usage -- Christian reports that this has been held up: "As there are still some open issues on this and other topics in the WG, I would like to postpone this discussion until we have a clearer picture of how the outcome of this question will relate to our recommendations." D. All of us were "to articulate namespace policy and review P5 contents" by this time. Not done. Referred to item 3, below. E. Charter for Joint ISO-TEI activity on Feature Structures (Lou, Laurent)--Done. See: http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/FS-ISO-Form_04-NP_cover.rtf http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/Charter%20for%20Joint%20ISO#335DC.doc

2. Editors' proposal for handling nontrivial changes to the Guidelines, for which see http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html (held over from last meeting) -- Lou, Syd (15 minutes)

3. Review of workplan and timetable for TEI P5 (held over from last meeting) -- Lou, Syd? (15 minutes)

4. Status of Master/manuscript description work (held over to next meeting) -- Merrilee Proffitt (5 minutes)

6. New workgroup? SVG and TEI's Trees/Graphs section. Proposed by Patrick Durusau see http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0381.html -- John (10 minutes)

7. Chair selection for Council-as-workgroup, on CORE TAGS AND SCHEMA (cited in the minutes of each previous meeting or conference call as a Council-as-Workgroup item) -- John (5 minutes)

11. Review work items going forward (5 min) From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Jan 20 22:23:17 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 22:23:17 -0500 Subject: conference call agenda In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030120190002.027d66d8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15916.48421.664993.520587@mama.stg.brown.edu> > A. Syd was to have revised minutes from tcm02. Report? -- Syd Oops. No need to waste phone time on this, I'll admit it here -- I'm a slug. (For that matter, what revision was I to have done? Sigh.) From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 05:56:57 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 Jan 2003 11:56:57 +0100 Subject: todays meeting Message-ID: <1043146617.14555.1.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I am sorry, but I will not be joining in the conference call, due to my inability to speak normally. Some points from the agenda Item 2. I am not sure this needs 15 minutes discussion. I think we should just mandate Lou and Syd to put it into operation and review its workings in May Item 3. This is a real frustration, that we have not arrived at a decision on the New ODD language. This holds up the P5 work. I don't have any great answer (see 7. below) Item 6. I already gave some thoughts on this last night. I don't believe it is the right way forward. First we need to decide whether the TEI needs a chapter on graphs and trees; then we need to review the literature to see what else is available; then (maybe) we work out a language which maps to SVG. Patrick seems to want to dive straight in at the end. Item 7. How *do* we push this forward? I personally want to see * a decision on how to rewrite the ODDs in a form which be used to generate Schemas * a framework in which we can review how the TEI components are joined together * a resolution of the namespace issue. do we hitch our wagon to that star? I think the best that can be achieved is to set some short-term goals, divide them out across the council, and aim for final decisions and implementations in May -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Jan 21 08:05:33 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:05:33 -0500 Subject: todays meeting In-Reply-To: <1043146617.14555.1.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <15917.17821.388683.173252@mama.stg.brown.edu> First off, get well soon. Sorry you won't make the call.

> Item 3. This is a real frustration, that we have not arrived at a > decision on the New ODD language. This holds up the P5 work. I don't > have any great answer ... I personally want to see > * a decision on how to rewrite the ODDs in a form which be used > > to generate Schemas But I don't think we should expect much help from the Council here. I think you, Lou, and I need to come up with one or more concrete proposals from which the Council can choose. I say this in part because I feel that many are still somewhat mystified by the ODD system -- how it works and what it does. (BTW, it is completely documented, or at least a previous incarnation of it was completely documented, in http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw29.sgm or http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw29.tar.)

> * a resolution of the namespace issue. do we hitch our wagon to that > star? This, in my not-quite-well-enough-educated opinion is tied closely to the questions of DTDs and future support for SGML, and is really the major Council question that, if unancwered, will be holding us (Editors + Sebastian) back.

> Item 6. I already gave some thoughts on this last night. I don't > believe it is the right way forward. First we need to decide > whether the TEI needs a chapter on graphs and trees; then we need > to review the literature to see what else is available; then > (maybe) we work out a language which maps to SVG. Patrick seems to > want to dive straight in at the end. FWIW, it is not at all clear to me that TEI should have a chapter on graphs and trees. It is clear that if we do, it needs to provide a mechanism for a somewhat abstract description (SVG may not be sufficiently abstract, idunno), and if it's *not* SVG, it needs to be transformable into SVG easily. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jan 21 08:23:16 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 08:23:16 -0500 Subject: corrected URL for TEI/ISO workgroup Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030121082259.00ac2ae0@j.mail.virginia.edu> http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/Charter_for_Joint_ISO335DC.doc From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 07:23:40 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 Jan 2003 13:23:40 +0100 Subject: corrected URL for TEI/ISO workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030121082259.00ac2ae0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1043151820.14720.26.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 14:23, John Unsworth wrote: > http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/Charter_for_Joint_ISO335DC.doc .doc indeed. quis custodiet ipsos custodes? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Jan 21 09:36:27 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 15:36:27 +0100 Subject: corrected URL for TEI/ISO workgroup In-Reply-To: <1043151820.14720.26.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <15917.23275.21377.726587@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sebastian Rahtz writes: > On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 14:23, John Unsworth wrote: > > http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/Charter_for_Joint_ISO335DC.doc > > .doc indeed. > > quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Too bad you missed the call! So, Lou has volunteered to shift it to tei. Not sure what will or can happen to the ISO document... > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > OUCS -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Jozef Stefan Institute www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 21 19:04:50 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 00:04:50 -0000 Subject: Draft minutes from today's call In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030108155301.02914658@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: [well, OK, now it's been yesterday's call for a few minutes over here, but anyway] Please could council members review the notes from the call at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm04.html (or .xml) as soon as possible, and notify me of any egregious errors. Sorry, I didnt manage to get to the FS documents yet. Tomorrow. Or the day after! Lou From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jan 21 22:12:00 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:12:00 -0500 Subject: Draft minutes from today's call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030121221139.00b1d928@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 12:04 AM 1/22/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>[well, OK, now it's been yesterday's call for a few minutes over here, but >anyway] > >Please could council members review the notes from the call >at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm04.html (or .xml) as soon as possible, >and notify me of any egregious errors.

If Council members have problems with the version at the UK site, try http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm04.html John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jan 24 09:46:56 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 24 Jan 2003 15:46:56 +0100 Subject: May meeting Message-ID: <1043419616.24622.186.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> As you all know, we have a face-to-face meeting planned for May 16th and 17th in Oxford. Accomodation around here is scarce and highly-booked, so I'd really like to get some idea in the next week to say a) will you be attending b) which nights you will need accomodation for Could everyone please email our administrator, Judy McAuliffe, (Judy.Mcauliffe at oucs.ox.ac.uk), with a first version of their thoughts on attending the meeting in Oxford? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Fri Jan 24 12:57:29 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent.Romary at loria.fr) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 16:57:29 -0100 (MET) Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043419616.24622.186.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <38514.209.181.114.141.1043423849.squirrel@www.loria.fr> Dear all, I had booked those two days a long time ago in my agenda, but a third little boy should be arriving in the Romary family around those dates... It would probably be better for me to stay at home by then. Best wishes Laurent > As you all know, we have a face-to-face meeting planned for > May 16th and 17th in Oxford. > > Accomodation around here is scarce and highly-booked, so > I'd really like to get some idea in the next week to say > > a) will you be attending > b) which nights you will need accomodation for > > Could everyone please email our administrator, Judy McAuliffe, > (Judy.Mcauliffe at oucs.ox.ac.uk), with a first version of > their thoughts on attending the meeting in Oxford? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Jan 24 15:18:44 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 15:18:44 -0500 Subject: Consuelo Dutschke Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030124151717.026fea58@j.mail.virginia.edu> Just to say I've written to Consuelo with the new plan, and I've offered to send her the draft that our task force produces, should she wish to comment before it goes to the council for adoption. I've also asked her to send me any work-in-progress that might speed the work of the task force along, but I don't think we should wait to receive that before beginning the work. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 26 13:36:47 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 13:36:47 -0500 Subject: tcm04: ok? Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030126133600.00ad55d8@j.mail.virginia.edu> From Lou: >I haven't received any comment on the content of the notes from our last >conference call: may I therefore assume that it's OK to put a link to them on >the front page of the Council section on the website? > >Lou From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Jan 26 18:03:10 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:03:10 -0500 Subject: tcm04: ok? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030126133600.00ad55d8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15924.26926.742260.736405@mama.stg.brown.edu> Minutes are unclear whether SPQR is forming a subcommittee, task force, or work group. The former two do not have official TEI definitions that I'm aware of. A WG does have specific rules under which it operates. I remember asking wether or not this would be a funded group; I think the answer was "no". Add at right spot: editors Write draft charge for architectual issues (SC|TF|WG). 2003-02-13 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 27 02:37:04 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 27 Jan 2003 08:37:04 +0100 Subject: tcm04: ok? In-Reply-To: <15924.26926.742260.736405@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <1043653024.28144.1.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Mon, 2003-01-27 at 00:03, Syd Bauman wrote: > Minutes are unclear whether SPQR is forming a subcommittee, task > force, or work group. I wondered that too. > Add at right spot: > > editors > Write draft charge for architectual issues (SC|TF|WG). > 2003-02-13 ooner than that would be even better -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 27 10:23:54 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:23:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: trees and graphs Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030127102235.00b29590@j.mail.virginia.edu> I mailed Patrick with the consensus of the Council (re: trees, graphs, SVG, etc.) and this is his reply. I've agreed to what he proposes, advised him to get in touch with David Durand for contact info on Chris, and noted his request that working group membership be listed somewhere where members can find it. John

>Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 07:37:05 -0500 >From: Patrick Durusau >Reply-To: pdurusau at emory.edu >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.2) >Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 >X-Accept-Language: en-us, en >To: John Unsworth >Subject: Re: trees and graphs > > >John, > >Sure! > >Chris Catton of the RDF world? chris.catton at btopenworld.com? The reason I >ask is that the TEI-L archives did not find any posts containing "catton." > >I can contact David Durand for an email address for Chris if you don't >have one handy. > >Before posting to the TEI-L list for volunteers I assume it would be >better to have some sort of work plan outline, prepared with Chris so >people will know what volunteering will mean. > >I assume the Council would want the report of the task force by its next >meeting in October (?) 2003? > >Generally what I would forsee is a review of Chapter 21 to establish what >it covers, perhaps in a table sort of listing, so a similar review of SVG >(or similar XML languages) could be laid along side for rough comparison. >The report itself would have a prose section to summarize the >commonalities/differences and make recommendations based on the summary chart. > >I would think that most (if not all) of the work could be done by email. >For the drafts of the report, if need be, we could either use an IRC >channel or perhaps even one or two conference calls. I think the SBL would >be willing to pick up the conference call cost, provided callers were >paying their own long distance charges. > >I work best with deadlines and deliverables so lets say that I contact >Chris and we fashion a call for volunteers and a work plan posted to the >TEI-L list by the end of February 2003, with a view of having the task >force formulated and underway by the end of March 2003? That gives us 6 >months to worry Chapter 21, SVG and related standards back and forth >before the Council meeting. > >FYI on schemas: The Open Office XML Format TC at OASIS will be using RELAX >NG as the basis for the Open Office XML format. > >I visited the TEI site trying to find a listing of the linking group's >membership but either overlooked it or it is not present. If the latter, >would you suggest to the maintainers that listing of working group members >with email addresses would make communication a little easier? > >Hope the week is off to a great start! > >Patrick > >John Unsworth wrote: >>Patrick, >> >>In our TEI Council conference call on January 21st, we discussed your >>proposal to revisit the chapter of the guidelines on trees and graphs, >>with an eye to SVG, and here's what the minutes say we said: >> >>"The Council agreed that the question of whether or not the current >>chapter on Trees and Graphs should be retained or revised was distinct >>from the question of how to integrate other XML schemes such as SVG. It >>was agreed to ask Patrick to constitute a task force which should review >>current work in formalization of tree and graph structures, and make a >>specific recommendation with regard to the current chapter of the >>Guidelines. He should solicit interest in this work on TEI-L; it was >>suggested that Chris Catton (on the SO markup wg) would be a useful >>contributor." >> >>Let me unpack that a little. There's a general issue, across many >>sections of the guidelines, having to do with integrating TEI with other >>standards, namespaces, etc., and that's got to be a major part of the >>revision for P5. The Council is setting up a workgroup within itself to >>look at that issue, which includes, for example, how to express TEI as a >>schema, whether to continue with DTDs, what to do with the TEI header and >>how to reconcile that with things like EAD, METS, Dublin Core, etc. etc. >>etc.. Whether or not to use SVG to express trees and graphs in TEI is a >>part of that larger question--but the Council felt that there was a prior >>question, namely whether the next revision of the guidelines ought to >>have a chapter on trees and graphs at all--or whether it should simply >>reference other guidelines elsewhere. Hence the suggestion of a task >>force, as something prior to a workgroup--a workgroup would assume that >>we *were* going to keep and revise the chapter. So, if you're willing to >>do it, we'd like you to form a small task force of interested and >>knowledgeable people to look at the chapter in P4, look at other work in >>this area, and make an initial recommendation to the council as to >>whether the chapter should be retained and revised or discarded, in >>P5. It was suggested that recruiting for this task force could be done >>on TEI-L, and Chris Catton (from the stand-off markup workgroup that >>David Durand is chairing) was also named as someone with experience and >>an interest in this topic. >> >>Is this something you'd be willing to take on? >> >>John > > >-- >Patrick Durusau >Director of Research and Development >Society of Biblical Literature >pdurusau at emory.edu >Co-Editor, ISO Reference Model for Topic Maps From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Tue Jan 28 09:09:25 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (ss423 at umail.umd.edu) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:09:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043419616.24622.186.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1146.129.6.187.209.1043762965.squirrel@mailbox.umd.edu> Dear Sebastian, Do we have any idea of the time we'll be beginning on the 16th & ending on the 17th? usan

> As you all know, we have a face-to-face meeting planned for > May 16th and 17th in Oxford. > > Accomodation around here is scarce and highly-booked, so > I'd really like to get some idea in the next week to say > > a) will you be attending > b) which nights you will need accomodation for > > Could everyone please email our administrator, Judy McAuliffe, > (Judy.Mcauliffe at oucs.ox.ac.uk), with a first version of > their thoughts on attending the meeting in Oxford? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 28 10:42:29 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 28 Jan 2003 16:42:29 +0100 Subject: May meeting Message-ID: <1043768549.29502.234.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I think I may have misled all of you, and myself, over dates. When I actually check, I realize that what we have is an arrangement to meet on May 15th and 16th, Thursday and Friday; as opposed to the Friday and Saturday. Has anyone actually booked flights etc on the assumption of 16th and 17th? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 30 16:36:44 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 30 Jan 2003 21:36:44 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <3E379AC3.632.129285@localhost> Message-ID: <1043962603.1121.85.camel@spqr-dell> In lack of any complaints, can I definitely ask you to rearrange your lives to be in Oxford on 15th and 16th May, and mail Judy McAuliffe (CCed) to say which says you need accomodation. I suggest that we arrange to work from 9.30 to 5 on 15th, and 9.30 to 2 on 16th. So you could leave on the evening of 16th if needed. Is that OK by John? or shall we do two full days? Sebastian From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Jan 30 17:10:17 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 17:10:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043962603.1121.85.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we shift to work the full day on Friday? Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On 30 Jan 2003, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > In lack of any complaints, can I definitely > ask you to rearrange your lives to be in Oxford > on 15th and 16th May, and mail Judy McAuliffe > (CCed) to say which says you need accomodation. > > I suggest that we arrange to work from 9.30 to 5 > on 15th, and 9.30 to 2 on 16th. So you could > leave on the evening of 16th if needed. Is that > OK by John? or shall we do two full days? > > Sebastian > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 30 18:25:00 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 30 Jan 2003 23:25:00 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1043969099.1121.133.camel@spqr-dell> On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: > I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, > so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, > and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I > probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, > and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we > shift to work the full day on Friday? If everyone sends me their votes, I can find a consensus Sebastian From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Jan 30 21:14:14 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 11:14:14 +0900 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043969099.1121.133.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: >> I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, >> so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, >> and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I >> probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, >> and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we >> shift to work the full day on Friday? > > If everyone sends me their votes, I can find > a consensus Both options are fine with me. Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Thu Jan 30 21:24:17 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 21:24:17 -0500 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003b01c2c8cf$db5a0310$64170880@MITHLAPTOP> also ok with me -- susan

----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Wittern" To: Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:14 PM Subject: Re: May meeting

> Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: > >> I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, > >> so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, > >> and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I > >> probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, > >> and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we > >> shift to work the full day on Friday? > > > > If everyone sends me their votes, I can find > > a consensus > > Both options are fine with me. > > Christian > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From alex.bia at ua.es Fri Jan 31 04:17:36 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:17:36 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043969099.1121.133.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030131101548.014e1148@aitana.cpd.ua.es> To me, the dates (15 & 16) and the times are fine. Alex.- ----------------------------------- At 23:25 30/01/2003 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: > > I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, > > so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, > > and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I > > probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, > > and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we > > shift to work the full day on Friday? > >If everyone sends me their votes, I can find >a consensus > >Sebastian --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ Domicilio: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN, CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Jan 31 04:34:04 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 10:34:04 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030131101548.014e1148@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Message-ID: <3E3A511C.30950.6D2321@localhost> I'm not bothered, although it probably makes more sense to have the full working day on the Friday, as Perry suggests, since most of us, I suspect, will be staying over the Saturday night anyway owing to weird airline regulations. Matthew From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Fri Jan 31 04:53:12 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 18:53:12 +0900 Subject: Proposal on SDATA-replacement in XML Message-ID: Dear Council members, At the last telephone call on Jan. 21, I promised to submit the SDATA proposal to the council today. Two drafts for this have been discussed in the Character Encoding WG, but so far no consensus has been reached, in fact there was strong opposition to submitting such a proposal at all. We will need some more time to sort this out, so I would like to be permitted to report back on this four weeks from today. Concern has also been raised as to in who's name this will be submitted to the W3C, since the TEI is not a member and apparently their is no avenue for this for non-members. I hope this will find the agreement of the TEI council members. All the best, Christian Wittern -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jan 31 04:54:29 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 31 Jan 2003 09:54:29 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <3E3A511C.30950.6D2321@localhost> Message-ID: <1044006869.5910.5.camel@janus> The reasoning behind starting on Thurs rather than Fri is that we won't have meeting rooms available on Sat. This only matters if we need 2 full days of course. If 1.5 days is enough, then we could start at lunchtime on thurs, obviously. Is it though? L

This only makes sense however On Fri, 2003-01-31 at 09:34, M. J. Driscoll wrote: > I'm not bothered, although it probably makes more sense to have > the full working day on the Friday, as Perry suggests, since most > of us, I suspect, will be staying over the Saturday night anyway > owing to weird airline regulations. > > Matthew > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Fri Jan 31 11:16:50 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:16:50 -0800 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043969099.1121.133.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030131081524.01fe98a0@notes.rlg.org> Sebastian, I am in exactly the same situation as Perry, so would also want to work a part day Thursday, full day Friday. Or just expect me mid-day on Thursday. Merrilee At 11:25 PM 1/30/2003 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: > > I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, > > so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, > > and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I > > probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, > > and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we > > shift to work the full day on Friday? > >If everyone sends me their votes, I can find >a consensus > >Sebastian From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Fri Jan 31 12:16:40 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:16:40 -0500 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20030131081524.01fe98a0@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: >Sebastian, > >I am in exactly the same situation as Perry, so would also want to >work a part day Thursday, full day Friday. Or just expect me >mid-day on Thursday. I think that any of these days is OK. -- David G. Durand VP, Software Architecture 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Feb 1 18:43:47 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 18:43:47 -0500 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1044006869.5910.5.camel@janus> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030201184147.0270ec18@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 09:54 AM 1/31/2003 +0000, you wrote: >The reasoning behind starting on Thurs rather than Fri is that we won't >have meeting rooms available on Sat. This only matters if we need 2 full >days of course. If 1.5 days is enough, then we could start at lunchtime >on thurs, obviously. Is it though?

I think we have more than one day of work to do. We're not a large group--probably ten at most. Is there no possibility of finding a meeting space any where in Oxford for Saturday? The ideal situation, given Perry's constraint, would be to meet a full day on Friday and as much of Saturday as we need, up to a full day. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 06:30:12 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Feb 2003 11:30:12 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030201184147.0270ec18@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1044185411.15694.7.camel@spqr-dell> On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 23:43, John Unsworth wrote: > I think we have more than one day of work to do. We're not a large > group--probably ten at most. Is there no possibility of finding a meeting > space any where in Oxford for Saturday? The ideal situation, given Perry's > constraint, would be to meet a full day on Friday and as much of Saturday > as we need, up to a full day. I have constraints on bedrooms as well. Yes, I can find a meeting room on Saturday, but I cant promise I can find the requisite accomodation for the Saturday. Currently I have bookings mostly for the Wednesday and Thursday nights. I propose that we convene for lunch on the Thursday, and work certainly under Friday pm. that gives us the option of carryon on on Saturday morning Sebastian From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 17:02:40 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:02:40 -0000 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 Message-ID: The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI policy. The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of this action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. As this is rather an important part of the way the TEI technical work is defined and carried out, I would like to place this once more on the agenda. Could all council members PLEASE review this document and VOTE on one of the following propositions: A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" B: "EDW54 is in need of modification before it can be adopted by the Council as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" (If you vote B, you probably also need to make some suggestion about the kinds of modification you think necessary) (If you vote A, you are not shutting the door on future revision of the document, but you are at least enabling it to go forward for the moment)

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 17:02:43 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:02:43 -0000 Subject: Naming of things Message-ID: We have variously used the terms "work group", "subcommittee", and "task force" for groups of people doing stuff for the TEI. Here's what I believe to be the case -- comments/corrections welcomed a "TEI work group" is a group of people specifically chartered by the TEI Council, but not forming part of it. It conducts its business according to the provisions of EDW54, with a formal charge and an agreed programme of work subject to review by the council. Its chair is ex officio a member of the council. It may be funded. a "TEI task force" is a subgroup of the Council membership, to which the Council delegates a specific task, with a nominated chair, usually without funding, and usually to achieve a specific and relatively short term objective. It may behave like an edw54-defined workgroup if it so wishes, but is not required to. It may subpoena additional (non-Council) members, with the permission of the Council at the request of its chair. a "TEI subcommittee" is a subgroup of the Council membership, to which the Council delegates a long term or intermittent activity. The existing workgroups are Character Encoding, Migration, and Standoff. We have a subcommittee on Training, and we have a Library Taskforce which has just completed sterling work on a grant proposal. We have just agreed to set up a Workgroup on Feature structures, and Taskforces on Metalanguage and Manuscript Description. Thinking about it again, and reviewing the definitions above, I wonder whether we might not do better to make the Metalanguage bunch into a workgroup. We do not yet have a term for the activity we asked Patrick Durusau to carry out: namely to research a specific field (alone or in combination with whoever he likes to invite) and propose whether or not the Council should set up a workgroup (or taskforce). (I'm also a bit worried that Pat seems to think he has been charged with forming a workgroup, which I don't think we'd agreed to)

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 17:02:31 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Feb 2003 22:02:31 +0000 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044223351.29926.88.camel@spqr-dell> A. I vote to endorse EDW54 as it stands

-- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 17:01:30 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Feb 2003 22:01:30 +0000 Subject: Naming of things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044223290.29932.86.camel@spqr-dell> I would prefer it if Metalanguage was a workgroup, since its activities would seem to exactly fit that description. Patrick Durusau seems to me to have been requested by the TEI Council to do an investigation. Does this need a name? I think the distinction between this and the other Things is that he does not have the right to claim TEI accreditation. Sebastian From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 2 17:36:18 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 17:36:18 -0500 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030202173424.00ad4180@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 10:02 PM 2/2/2003 +0000, you wrote: >The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an >action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines >Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI policy. >The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of this >action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. There was a round of comments on the tei-council list, with Tomasz, Merrilee, and others providing some detailed feedback. This was around mid-January 2002. I think we probably assumed that, with those changes incorporated, we approved of the document, but I see no problem in voting the matter, for the record. >A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for >all TEI Workgroups" So, I vote A. John From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Sun Feb 2 18:15:37 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 18:15:37 -0500 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030201184147.0270ec18@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: At 6:43 PM -0500 2/1/03, John Unsworth wrote: >At 09:54 AM 1/31/2003 +0000, you wrote: > >>The reasoning behind starting on Thurs rather than Fri is that we won't >>have meeting rooms available on Sat. This only matters if we need 2 full >>days of course. If 1.5 days is enough, then we could start at lunchtime >>on thurs, obviously. Is it though? > > >I think we have more than one day of work to do. We're not a large >group--probably ten at most. Is there no possibility of finding a >meeting space any where in Oxford for Saturday? The ideal >situation, given Perry's constraint, would be to meet a full day on >Friday and as much of Saturday as we need, up to a full day. > >John I've just seen this mail thread. I could find a room in the Ingenta offices on Saturday. -- David -- David G. Durand VP, Software Architecture 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 18:21:50 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Feb 2003 23:21:50 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044228110.14847.15.camel@spqr-dell> > I've just seen this mail thread. I could find a room in the Ingenta > offices on Saturday. Thanks for the offer! Lets assume the meeting place is no problem, and that you may be required to work from Thursday 2pm to Saturday 1pm. Send Judy your bed requirements accordingly, if you have not already done so.... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 18:51:41 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 23:51:41 -0000 Subject: Web site update summary Message-ID: 1. Workgroup charters etc. I have now updated the Council section of the website to include the following: TCM04: minutes from last phone conversation * TCW01: draft charge for the joint ISO/TEI work group on Feature Structures TCW02: draft working paper on P5 ("Towards the son of Odd...") TCW03: draft charge for the Metalanguage Taskforce As usual, to read one of these documents, point your browser at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/xxxx.html or .xml, replacing xxxx by the document ID given above, but in lowercase. These documents are intended for review and comment by the council, so they are not explicitly linked to from the index page at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/index.html (except for the minutes, which I am now assuming have been approved). Starred items have not yet been confirmed by the respective chair of the group. Still to come is * TCW04: draft charge for the Manuscript Description Taskforce: I have sent Matthew some comments on that and am waiting for feedback 2. Who's who I have revised the Council and Board membership lists on the Consortium part of the website: please check I have your name and affiliation right! Apologies for being so tardy in doing this: it completely slipped my memory. 3. TEI P4 in XML After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have some reservations about it. 4. Applications page This is looking a bit better than it was: in particular there is now an online form for people to use when supplying descriptions of their projects. I have asked the Oxford Text Archive to help me catch up on the backlog. In return, the OTA wants to spam TEI applications with a request for deposits: I think this is a fair exchange, but thought I ought to mention it here.

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 2 18:55:51 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Feb 2003 23:55:51 +0000 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044230150.14847.30.camel@spqr-dell> > 3. TEI P4 in XML > > After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of > the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. > No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at > http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a > look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a > link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have > some reservations about it. So do I; but largely because it is not clear what people will do with it. Therefore, I am of the opinion that we should release it to the membership at large, immediately a) to get feedback b) to let them feel involved (they are always promised early feedback) We definitely want it used to update the variant online references to the TEI! -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Feb 2 20:16:25 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:16:25 +0900 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Burnard Towers writes: > The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an > action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines > Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI policy. > The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of this > action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. As this is > rather an important part of the way the TEI technical work is defined and > carried out, I would like to place this once more on the agenda. Could all > council members PLEASE review this document and VOTE on one of the following > propositions: > > A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for > all TEI Workgroups" > B: "EDW54 is in need of modification before it can be adopted by the Council > as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" > (If you vote B, you probably also need to make some suggestion about the > kinds of modification you think necessary) In light of Lou's other post "Naming of Things", I do not see where EDW54 says that WG heads are "ex officio" Council members. This has not been stated before (I think) and if that is the fact, I feel it should be mentioned in EDW54. I vote "B" therefore. All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 07:49:37 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 03 Feb 2003 13:49:37 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <006201c2cb89$9c1030a0$c9160880@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1044276576.25247.29.camel@spqr> On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 14:37, Susan Schreibman wrote: > Sebastian --- can you send Judy's email address out to the list again -- > many thanks -- susan Judy McAuliffe is judy.mcauliffe at oucs.ox.ac.uk -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Feb 3 11:19:26 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 08:19:26 -0800 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wasn't the charge for the MS Description Taskforce to be routed by the Council for comment? I haven't seen it yet. Thanks, Merrilee

Burnard Towers cc: Sent by: Subject: Web site update summary owner-tei-council at lists.village.vir ginia.edu 02/02/2003 03:51 PM Please respond to tei-council

1. Workgroup charters etc. I have now updated the Council section of the website to include the following: TCM04: minutes from last phone conversation * TCW01: draft charge for the joint ISO/TEI work group on Feature Structures TCW02: draft working paper on P5 ("Towards the son of Odd...") TCW03: draft charge for the Metalanguage Taskforce As usual, to read one of these documents, point your browser at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/xxxx.html or .xml, replacing xxxx by the document ID given above, but in lowercase. These documents are intended for review and comment by the council, so they are not explicitly linked to from the index page at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/index.html (except for the minutes, which I am now assuming have been approved). Starred items have not yet been confirmed by the respective chair of the group. Still to come is * TCW04: draft charge for the Manuscript Description Taskforce: I have sent Matthew some comments on that and am waiting for feedback 2. Who's who I have revised the Council and Board membership lists on the Consortium part of the website: please check I have your name and affiliation right! Apologies for being so tardy in doing this: it completely slipped my memory. 3. TEI P4 in XML After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have some reservations about it. 4. Applications page This is looking a bit better than it was: in particular there is now an online form for people to use when supplying descriptions of their projects. I have asked the Oxford Text Archive to help me catch up on the backlog. In return, the OTA wants to spam TEI applications with a request for deposits: I think this is a fair exchange, but thought I ought to mention it here.

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 11:29:26 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 03 Feb 2003 16:29:26 +0000 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044289766.10262.26.camel@janus> Indeed it was and will be shortly on the website for that very purpose... I was waiting for a greenish light from our man in Copenhagen first. Which I now (I think) have.

On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 16:19, Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org wrote: > > Wasn't the charge for the MS Description Taskforce to be routed by the > Council for comment? I haven't seen it yet. > > Thanks, > > Merrilee > > > > > Burnard Towers > ord.ac.uk> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Web site update summary > owner-tei-council at lists.village.vir > ginia.edu > > > 02/02/2003 03:51 PM > Please respond to tei-council > > > > > > > 1. Workgroup charters etc. > > I have now updated the Council section of the website to include the > following: > > TCM04: minutes from last phone conversation > * TCW01: draft charge for the joint ISO/TEI work group on Feature > Structures > TCW02: draft working paper on P5 ("Towards the son of Odd...") > TCW03: draft charge for the Metalanguage Taskforce > > As usual, to read one of these documents, point your browser at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/xxxx.html or .xml, replacing xxxx by the > document ID given above, but in lowercase. > > These documents are intended for review and comment by the council, so they > are not explicitly linked to from the index page at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/index.html (except for the minutes, which I am > now assuming have been approved). Starred items have not yet been confirmed > by the respective chair of the group. > > Still to come is > > * TCW04: draft charge for the Manuscript Description Taskforce: I have sent > Matthew some comments on that and am waiting for feedback > > 2. Who's who > > I have revised the Council and Board membership lists on the Consortium > part > of the website: please check I have your name and affiliation right! > Apologies for being so tardy in doing this: it completely slipped my > memory. > > 3. TEI P4 in XML > > After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of > the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. > No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at > http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a > look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a > link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have > some reservations about it. > > 4. Applications page > > This is looking a bit better than it was: in particular there is now an > online form for people to use when supplying descriptions of their > projects. > I have asked the Oxford Text Archive to help me catch up on the backlog. In > return, the OTA wants to spam TEI applications with a request for deposits: > I think this is a fair exchange, but thought I ought to mention it here. > > > > > --- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- > > > > > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 13:14:58 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 03 Feb 2003 18:14:58 +0000 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044296099.10262.65.camel@janus> Green lights having been seen (oh that aurora borealis), the charge for the mssdesc taskforce is now on the web at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcw04.html Comments to this list asap please. L

On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 16:19, Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org wrote: > > Wasn't the charge for the MS Description Taskforce to be routed by the > Council for comment? I haven't seen it yet. > > Thanks, > > Merrilee > > > > > Burnard Towers > ord.ac.uk> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Web site update summary > owner-tei-council at lists.village.vir > ginia.edu > > > 02/02/2003 03:51 PM > Please respond to tei-council > > > > > > > 1. Workgroup charters etc. > > I have now updated the Council section of the website to include the > following: > > TCM04: minutes from last phone conversation > * TCW01: draft charge for the joint ISO/TEI work group on Feature > Structures > TCW02: draft working paper on P5 ("Towards the son of Odd...") > TCW03: draft charge for the Metalanguage Taskforce > > As usual, to read one of these documents, point your browser at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/xxxx.html or .xml, replacing xxxx by the > document ID given above, but in lowercase. > > These documents are intended for review and comment by the council, so they > are not explicitly linked to from the index page at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/index.html (except for the minutes, which I am > now assuming have been approved). Starred items have not yet been confirmed > by the respective chair of the group. > > Still to come is > > * TCW04: draft charge for the Manuscript Description Taskforce: I have sent > Matthew some comments on that and am waiting for feedback > > 2. Who's who > > I have revised the Council and Board membership lists on the Consortium > part > of the website: please check I have your name and affiliation right! > Apologies for being so tardy in doing this: it completely slipped my > memory. > > 3. TEI P4 in XML > > After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of > the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. > No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at > http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a > look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a > link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have > some reservations about it. > > 4. Applications page > > This is looking a bit better than it was: in particular there is now an > online form for people to use when supplying descriptions of their > projects. > I have asked the Oxford Text Archive to help me catch up on the backlog. In > return, the OTA wants to spam TEI applications with a request for deposits: > I think this is a fair exchange, but thought I ought to mention it here. > > > > > --- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- > > > > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Feb 3 13:14:18 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 10:14:18 -0800 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree with Christian, and would like to see an updated version that addresses the proposed revisions. So for the time being, I vote B. I'll forward my comments on again, if I need to. Just say the word, Lou. Merrilee

Christian Wittern cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: Endorsement of edw54 owner-tei-council at lists.village.vi rginia.edu 02/02/2003 05:16 PM Please respond to tei-council

Burnard Towers writes: > The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an > action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines > Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI policy. > The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of this > action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. As this is > rather an important part of the way the TEI technical work is defined and > carried out, I would like to place this once more on the agenda. Could all > council members PLEASE review this document and VOTE on one of the following > propositions: > > A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for > all TEI Workgroups" > B: "EDW54 is in need of modification before it can be adopted by the Council > as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" > (If you vote B, you probably also need to make some suggestion about the > kinds of modification you think necessary) In light of Lou's other post "Naming of Things", I do not see where EDW54 says that WG heads are "ex officio" Council members. This has not been stated before (I think) and if that is the fact, I feel it should be mentioned in EDW54. I vote "B" therefore. All the best, Christian

Thanks Christian for spotting this mistake. The assumption in my "naming of things" note that WG heads are ipso facto de jure and ex officio council members is clearly unsupported by the evidence. Rather than modify edw54 I'd prefer to rescind the suggestion in my note. Apart from anything else, it seems unnecessary to add to the council's membership in this way: wg heads can always be invited to council meetings in their own right if need be. So, I urge council members to vote A and tell me I got the other note wrong! L From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 3 14:03:23 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 03 Feb 2003 19:03:23 +0000 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1044299004.10262.100.camel@janus> See my earlier note in response to Christian. If there are other things in the current state of edw54 which need change, I'd appreciate a memory jog as to what they are -- and apologise in advance for having missed them. L

On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 18:14, Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org wrote: > > I agree with Christian, and would like to see an updated version that > addresses the proposed revisions. So for the time being, I vote B. > > I'll forward my comments on again, if I need to. Just say the word, Lou. > > Merrilee > > > > > Christian Wittern > p> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: Endorsement of edw54 > owner-tei-council at lists.village.vi > rginia.edu > > > 02/02/2003 05:16 PM > Please respond to tei-council > > > > > > > Burnard Towers writes: > > > The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an > > action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines > > Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI > policy. > > The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of > this > > action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. As this is > > rather an important part of the way the TEI technical work is defined and > > carried out, I would like to place this once more on the agenda. Could > all > > council members PLEASE review this document and VOTE on one of the > following > > propositions: > > > > A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures > for > > all TEI Workgroups" > > B: "EDW54 is in need of modification before it can be adopted by the > Council > > as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" > > (If you vote B, you probably also need to make some suggestion about the > > kinds of modification you think necessary) > > In light of Lou's other post "Naming of Things", I do not see where > EDW54 says that WG heads are "ex officio" Council members. This has > not been stated before (I think) and if that is the fact, I feel it > should be mentioned in EDW54. I vote "B" therefore. > > All the best, > > Christian > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Feb 3 16:30:47 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:30:47 -0800 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My comments from last time around, I hope these still make some sense: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:06:54 -0800 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu From: Merrilee Proffitt Subject: Re: EDW54 (please review) This document generally seems good, here are my comments. I hope they are intelligible. Update status **Preamble (under toc before General), paragraph 2: I am not following the chartered bit. Shouldn't it be: "...TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI), external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and given a TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything in between). eliminating the redundancy and confusion of who is doing the chartering -- in TEI terms, the TEI is doing the chartering, even if direction also coming from some other source. Knock out the bit about ", gleaned from the authors' experience in work group meetings both inside and outside the TEI." (sounds a bit preachy). **Under General, first paragraph: Do work groups get appointed by board under recommendation by the council, or simply by the council? The bylaw say that we "have the power to create working groups." This paragraph should also introduce the concept of some work items going away because other, better, standards have come along and may be used instead (MathML or tables being examples). **Membership: Question: why should membership distribution requirements be waived in the case of externally-funded work? **Documents: Well, should there be an expiration date for documents? What about the boilerplate text? What goes here? Include a link to TEI A1 and TEI ED W55 (and maybe titles of documents, as was done with TEI ED W48?).

**Overall: Update URLs Is it work group or Work Group? Should be consistent. TEI Guidelines or TEI Guidelines? Clarification as to who funds editors'/an editor's travel to work group meetings. From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Mon Feb 3 17:02:37 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:02:37 -0500 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: <1044296099.10262.65.camel@janus> Message-ID: <011a01c2cbcf$f8045ee0$06170880@negrito> Dear Lou -- would you ever mind using this link for me http://www.glue.umd.edu/~sschreib/ on the council web page -- my NJIT link no longer works many thanks and sorry for the trouble -- susan From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Feb 3 19:08:31 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:08:31 +0900 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: <1044298630.10050.97.camel@janus> Message-ID: Lou Burnard writes: >> In light of Lou's other post "Naming of Things", I do not see where >> EDW54 says that WG heads are "ex officio" Council members. This has >> not been stated before (I think) and if that is the fact, I feel it >> should be mentioned in EDW54. I vote "B" therefore. >> > > > Thanks Christian for spotting this mistake. The assumption in my "naming > of things" note that WG heads are ipso facto de jure and ex officio > council members is clearly unsupported by the evidence. Rather than > modify edw54 I'd prefer to rescind the suggestion in my note. > > Apart from anything else, it seems unnecessary to add to the council's > membership in this way: wg heads can always be invited to council > meetings in their own right if need be. > Seems reasonable. Change my vote to A then. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Feb 4 04:02:45 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 10:02:45 +0100 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15935.33205.58068.375757@gargle.gargle.HOWL> My vote: A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" but you might re-format the example at some point.. Best, Tomaz From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Tue Feb 4 11:31:06 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 11:31:06 -0500 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: <1044230150.14847.30.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: At 11:55 PM +0000 2/2/03, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >So do I; but largely because it is not clear what people will do >with it. Therefore, I am of the opinion that we should release >it to the membership at large, immediately > > a) to get feedback > b) to let them feel involved (they are always promised early feedback) > >We definitely want it used to update the variant online references to >the TEI! I agree with Sebastian. We can put it out as an "experimental format". We need someone to try to do something with it, not to just look at it, and I suspect that the larger TEI community is better prepared to do that in a timely way than I, and perhaps the rest of the council as well. -- David -- David G. Durand VP, Software Architecture 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Feb 4 15:48:10 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 15:48:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I vote "A", with consideration of the suggestions made to date. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Burnard Towers wrote: > The minutes of the council meeting in London last year (TCM01) include an > action on council members to review document EDW54, the one which defines > Workgroup procedures in general, so that it can be "enacted" as TEI policy. > The minutes of the next council meeting (TCM02) show no discussion of this > action, nor does it seem to have been mentioned subsequently. As this is > rather an important part of the way the TEI technical work is defined and > carried out, I would like to place this once more on the agenda. Could all > council members PLEASE review this document and VOTE on one of the following > propositions: > > A: "EDW54 is endorsed by the TEI Council as defining approved procedures for > all TEI Workgroups" > B: "EDW54 is in need of modification before it can be adopted by the Council > as defining approved procedures for all TEI Workgroups" > (If you vote B, you probably also need to make some suggestion about the > kinds of modification you think necessary) > (If you vote A, you are not shutting the door on future revision of the > document, but you are at least enabling it to go forward for the moment) > > > --- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- > > > From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Thu Feb 6 11:26:22 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 11:26:22 -0500 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:48 PM -0500 2/4/03, C. Perry Willett wrote: >I vote "A", with consideration of the suggestions made >to date. What he said! From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Sun Feb 9 17:04:05 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 17:04:05 -0500 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00fe01c2d087$2a84bde0$4a160880@negrito> I also agree with David's comment below usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David G. Durand" To: Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Endorsement of edw54

> At 3:48 PM -0500 2/4/03, C. Perry Willett wrote: > >I vote "A", with consideration of the suggestions made > >to date. > > What he said! > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 9 22:45:59 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 03:45:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ('binary' encoding is not supported, stored as-is) We have now moved edw54 to a more sensible (and permanent) location on the website http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/ED/edw54.html or .xml\ This version includes the changes proposed in January last year by various people on the list -- in my earlier response to Merillee's query I erroneously assumed we'd forgotten to revise it following her comments : I was entirely wrong! the indefatigable S. Bauman having done so in early Janbuary, 2002. The changes made are summarized in mail Syd sent to the list 29 jan 2002

n message <00fe01c2d087$2a84bde0$4a160880 at negrito> tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu writes: > I also agree with David's comment below > > susan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David G. Durand" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: Endorsement of edw54 > > > > At 3:48 PM -0500 2/4/03, C. Perry Willett wrote: > > >I vote "A", with consideration of the suggestions made > > >to date. > > > > What he said! > > > > > > From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Feb 9 22:56:46 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 22:56:46 -0500 Subject: missed mail re: EDW54 Message-ID: <15943.8958.332060.754065@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Eedk! Several key postings I sent out recently did not make it to the list due to an error of my own creation (yes, same problem that caused the bacdklog and then flood on TEI-L). Here are the two on edw54: --------- dated 2003-02-03 15:20-05 --------- > There was a round of comments on the tei-council list, with Tomasz, > Merrilee, and others providing some detailed feedback. This was > around mid-January 2002. The changes were put into the document on 2002-01-27.

> I think we probably assumed that, with those changes incorporated, > we approved of the document, but I see no problem in voting the > matter, for the record. Well, I had presumed the reverse, that the Council should vote on the revised document. Thus, the document itself explicitly states ... does not represent official policy of the TEI until approved by the TEI Council. (We can presume that the Council is not voting on the part that says the Council has to vote, and that the editors will just update that preamble to reflect whatever the Council votes :-) --------- dated 2003-09-03 20:34-05 --------- > My comments from last time around, I hope these still make some > sense:

As posted to this list in late Jan 2002 [1,2], most of the suggestions you made were applied to the document. Two questions you raise, however, were left as "outstanding issues": | > **Documents: | > Well, should there be an expiration date for documents? | Good question. I [Syd] am inclined to say that boilerplate text should | be provided for when there is an expiration date, but that in general | WG documents should not have one. There may be exceptions, though, | e.g., when a WG document exists to say "this is how we're going to do | it until so-and-so publishes a different standard". | ++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now. | | > What about the boilerplate text? What goes here? | Good question. It appears we've survived for years without it, | although it's not a bad idea. Anyone want to make suggestions? | ++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now.

Notes ----- [1] Posting "new EDW54 changes list (fwd)" from Lou 2002-01-29 20:59+00. [2] Are archives of this list available? I didn't even really know where to begin to look. http://lists.village.virginia.edu led me nowhere but IATH. (Not that IATH isn't a lovely site to visit, mind you.) I'm pretty much of a pack-rat, and have all the postings. If there are others who are not pack-rats and you want me to re-post that message, just say so. --------- end reposts --------- Note that Lou & I did *not* remember to remove the "not official policy until approved" warning notice from the . I'll try to remember to do that tomorrow. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 10 23:18:41 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 23:18:41 -0500 Subject: training proposal Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan will want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you can, please have a look and let me know whether you think the Council should endorse it. John From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Tue Feb 11 00:40:07 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:40:07 +0100 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <476533CA-3D83-11D7-AFDC-000393BF3ABE@loria.fr> This proposal is fine for me. Laurent Le mardi, 11 f?v 2003, ? 05:18 Europe/Paris, John Unsworth a ?crit : > There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > > It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, > obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan > will want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you > can, please have a look and let me know whether you think the Council > should endorse it. > > John > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Feb 11 03:11:39 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 11 Feb 2003 09:11:39 +0100 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1044951098.20216.0.camel@spqr> On Tue, 2003-02-11 at 05:18, John Unsworth wrote: > There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > I vote yes, no problem -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Feb 11 09:43:58 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:43:58 +0100 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15945.3118.551966.934940@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I vote yes. A side note to Susan: I don't see much (any?) discussion on TEI parametrisation/modules although I would imagine this would be one of the main topics in a course introducing TEI. All the best [and nice to have finally met some of you!] Tomaz John Unsworth writes: > There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > > It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, > obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan will > want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you can, please > have a look and let me know whether you think the Council should endorse it. > > John -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Jozef Stefan Institute www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From alex.bia at ua.es Tue Feb 11 14:16:18 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 20:16:18 +0100 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030211200649.023e0760@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Yes, no doubt the Council should endorse it. The course proposal seems very interesting in its contents, but what I particularly liked most was the pedagogical approach, stating "goals", "exercises" and "material" to be provided. Good work! Alex.- At 23:18 10/02/2003 -0500, you wrote: >There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > >It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, >obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan will >want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you can, please >have a look and let me know whether you think the Council should endorse it. > >John --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ Domicilio: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN, CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Tue Feb 11 15:19:47 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 15:19:47 -0500 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: I approve. A very nice looking session. I'm saving the writeup for updating my own teaching! -- David

At 11:18 PM -0500 2/10/03, John Unsworth wrote: >There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > >It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, >obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan >will want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you >can, please have a look and let me know whether you think the >Council should endorse it. > >John

-- ------------------------ David Durand Adjunct Associate Professor (research), Brown University. VP, Software Architecture, Ingenta Cell: +1 401-935-5317 FAX: +1 401-331-2015 From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Tue Feb 11 19:05:32 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:05:32 -0800 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This looks good, and certainly gets my endorsement. My only comment would be "why even bother with SGML," but that's a nit. Merrilee

John Unsworth Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu 02/10/2003 08:18 PM Please respond to tei-council To: TEI Council cc: Subject: training proposal

There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan will want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you can, please have a look and let me know whether you think the Council should endorse it. John From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Feb 11 19:27:11 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:27:11 +0900 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030210231447.00affc20@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > > It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, > obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. Susan will > want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you can, please > have a look and let me know whether you think the Council should endorse it.

The proposal looks fine to me. Looks like it will be an interesting session. I would be very interested to hear how it worked and how the participants received it. I wonder if we could get some kind of feedback after the training session? Also, to ride my old hobby-horse, it would make documents related to TEI much more convincing if they where produced using TEI. Who is ever going to use TEI for document interchange if even the members of the TEI council exchange their documents in RTF or WORD???

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of > Christian Wittern > Sent: 12 February 2003 00:27 > To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > Subject: Re: training proposal > > > John Unsworth writes: > > > There's a training proposal for the Council's consideration at: > > > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.2.8.03.rtf > > > > It was submitted by Susan Schreibman (who will not be voting on it, > > obviously), via the Training subcommittee, which endorses it. > Susan will > > want to have time to advertise the sessions, so as soon as you > can, please > > have a look and let me know whether you think the Council > should endorse it. > > > The proposal looks fine to me. Looks like it will be an interesting > session. I would be very interested to hear how it worked and how the > participants received it. I wonder if we could get some kind of > feedback after the training session? > > Also, to ride my old hobby-horse, it would make documents related to > TEI much more convincing if they where produced using TEI. Who is > ever going to use TEI for document interchange if even the members of > the TEI council exchange their documents in RTF or WORD??? > > > All the best, > > Christian > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 12 12:17:54 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:17:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030212121620.00af37b8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Here's news from Consuelo Dutschke; I have not yet replied, and I am on my way out to Illinois this afternoon, so it will probably be tomorrow before I do. I solicit your suggestions for that reply, especially those of you (Matthew, Merrilee, David B.) on the mss task force... John >X-Authentication-Warning: ciao.cc.columbia.edu: cwd3 owned process doing -bs >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:27:09 -0500 (EST) >From: Consuelo W Dutschke >Sender: cwd3 at columbia.edu >To: John Unsworth >cc: Ambrogio Piazzoni >Subject: Re: going forward > > >John, > >Many thanks for your kind message, and at the same time, apologies for >silence. I'm only gradually coming back on board, and it does take time. >In fact, I'm in California for the rest of this month, recuperating under >my husband's watcheful eye. Aside from the pleasures of having someone >else cook for you (not negligible!), California also means that I'm only >some 100 miles from Merrilee, not 3000, and we've talked on the phone, and >agreed that we need to finish the dtd ourselves as a first step. > >Ambrogio and I have considered where the dtd stands, and we feel confident >that this last section of work is doable by the end of this month; we also >feel that this is an obligation on the part of our group. Nor would it be >fair of us to expect others to attempt to evaluate this dtd when a section >of it is missing. > >Also, the project Digital Scriptorium used this dtd (or what may turn out >to be a subset of this dtd) for part of its data; we have subcontracted >out the display and searching on this data and are just now at the end of >the grant that funded this work. Delay of ca. one month will also bring >the advantage of the report of our subcontractor on this work; she may >point out areas of concern that need addressing. > >Hoping that this works with your plans for moving the TEI along (as we >move our little piece along as well), >all best, >\Consuelo > >On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > > > Consuelo, > > > > I haven't corresponded with you directly since your recent hospitalization, > > so let me first say that I'm relieved you're still with us, and I'm sorry > > if my request for resolution of the manuscript description work was in any > > way a worry during this period--but I'm guessing you had more significant > > worries. Just the same, I would like do what I can to lighten your load, > > so let me offer this way of moving forward. > > > > The TEI Council will establish a task force, from among its own members, to > > reconcile the work of the two manuscript description efforts and produce a > > single set of recommendations for revision to the guidelines. This task > > force will consist of Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and David > > Birnbaum. When they have drafted their documentation, we'll send it to you > > for review and comment, revise as necessary, and take it to the full > > council for adoption. If you agree that this is a reasonable way to > > proceed, it would be helpful if you could email or snail-mail me any work > > in progress that might help this group complete the task--they are eager to > > complete the task. > > > > Thanks for your help to date, and best wishes for a speedy recovery. > > > > John Unsworth > > > >Consuelo W. Dutschke, Ph.D. >Curator, Medieval and Renaissance Manuscripts >Rare Book and Manuscript Library >Columbia University >535 W. 114th Street >New York NY 10027 > >phone: 212-854-4139 fax: 212-854-1365 e-mail: cwd3 at columbia.edu From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 12 14:28:37 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:28:37 -0800 Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Consuelo and I have a date to spend next Wednesday, the 19th, working on her write up for the DTD, which should make it easier to evaluate. I don't really have a suggestion, other than to push forward on all fronts. Merrilee

John Unsworth Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu 02/12/2003 09:17 AM Please respond to tei-council To: TEI Council cc: Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward

Here's news from Consuelo Dutschke; I have not yet replied, and I am on my way out to Illinois this afternoon, so it will probably be tomorrow before I do. I solicit your suggestions for that reply, especially those of you (Matthew, Merrilee, David B.) on the mss task force... John >X-Authentication-Warning: ciao.cc.columbia.edu: cwd3 owned process doing -bs >Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:27:09 -0500 (EST) >From: Consuelo W Dutschke >Sender: cwd3 at columbia.edu >To: John Unsworth >cc: Ambrogio Piazzoni >Subject: Re: going forward > > >John, > >Many thanks for your kind message, and at the same time, apologies for >silence. I'm only gradually coming back on board, and it does take time. >In fact, I'm in California for the rest of this month, recuperating under >my husband's watcheful eye. Aside from the pleasures of having someone >else cook for you (not negligible!), California also means that I'm only >some 100 miles from Merrilee, not 3000, and we've talked on the phone, and >agreed that we need to finish the dtd ourselves as a first step. > >Ambrogio and I have considered where the dtd stands, and we feel confident >that this last section of work is doable by the end of this month; we also >feel that this is an obligation on the part of our group. Nor would it be >fair of us to expect others to attempt to evaluate this dtd when a section >of it is missing. > >Also, the project Digital Scriptorium used this dtd (or what may turn out >to be a subset of this dtd) for part of its data; we have subcontracted >out the display and searching on this data and are just now at the end of >the grant that funded this work. Delay of ca. one month will also bring >the advantage of the report of our subcontractor on this work; she may >point out areas of concern that need addressing. > >Hoping that this works with your plans for moving the TEI along (as we >move our little piece along as well), >all best, >\Consuelo > >On Fri, 24 Jan 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > > > Consuelo, > > > > I haven't corresponded with you directly since your recent hospitalization, > > so let me first say that I'm relieved you're still with us, and I'm sorry > > if my request for resolution of the manuscript description work was in any > > way a worry during this period--but I'm guessing you had more significant > > worries. Just the same, I would like do what I can to lighten your load, > > so let me offer this way of moving forward. > > > > The TEI Council will establish a task force, from among its own members, to > > reconcile the work of the two manuscript description efforts and produce a > > single set of recommendations for revision to the guidelines. This task > > force will consist of Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and David > > Birnbaum. When they have drafted their documentation, we'll send it to you > > for review and comment, revise as necessary, and take it to the full > > council for adoption. If you agree that this is a reasonable way to > > proceed, it would be helpful if you could email or snail-mail me any work > > in progress that might help this group complete the task--they are eager to > > complete the task. > > > > Thanks for your help to date, and best wishes for a speedy recovery. > > > > John Unsworth > > > >Consuelo W. Dutschke, Ph.D. >Curator, Medieval and Renaissance Manuscripts >Rare Book and Manuscript Library >Columbia University >535 W. 114th Street >New York NY 10027 > >phone: 212-854-4139 fax: 212-854-1365 e-mail: cwd3 at columbia.edu From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 12 19:32:13 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:32:13 -0800 Subject: May Meeting? Message-ID: I know we've been back and forth on this a bit, but I'm still unclear: Are we meeting on Thursday and Friday (the 15th and 16th)? Or (pleasepleaseplease!) on Friday and Saturday (the 16th and 17th)? Signed, Curious in California From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Feb 13 02:58:22 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 13 Feb 2003 08:58:22 +0100 Subject: May Meeting? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1045123102.20359.1.camel@spqr> On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 01:32, Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org wrote: > I know we've been back and forth on this a bit, but I'm still unclear: > > Are we meeting on Thursday and Friday (the 15th and 16th)? > Or (pleasepleaseplease!) on Friday and Saturday (the 16th and 17th)? we meet Thursday lunchtime to Saturday lunchtime. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From mjd at hum.ku.dk Thu Feb 13 09:29:13 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:29:13 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030212121620.00af37b8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3E4BB9C9.13677.26B6C6@localhost> I'm prepared, happy even, to wait until Consuelo, Ambrogio and Merrilee have completed their work, providing that they can complete it quickly enough so that our group can have some sense of where things stand by the time of the May meeting. I would also hope that the completion of this work isn't too taxing on Consuelo, but that's obviously something she's in a far better position to evaluate than I am. Matthew From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 13 11:39:29 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:39:29 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030212121620.00af37b8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030213113711.0271d9f8@j.mail.virginia.edu> The consensus of on- and off-list communication seems to be that we should wait until the end of the month and see what Consuelo (and Merrilee) come up with. I'll write to that effect. The task force should then plan to pick up the conversation at the beginning of March, probably with a status report from Merrilee, and continue on from there. Thanks for speedy turnaround. And thank you, Merrilee, for working on this with Consuelo. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 13 12:11:56 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:11:56 -0500 Subject: training proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20030213120827.027358d8@j.mail.virginia.edu> All responses having been positive, with suggestions noted (as I sure Susan has, as she's on this list), I think it's time to say that the Council approves and endorses the training proposal submitted by Susan Schreibman at al., and thanks her and her colleagues for putting it together. Go forth and market! John From mjd at hum.ku.dk Thu Feb 13 12:57:31 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:57:31 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: going forward In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030213113711.0271d9f8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3E4BEA9B.29497.E5708E@localhost> It's just struck me how appropriate the title of these e-mails is (or has become): "Re: Fwd: Re: going forward". It's a bit like Faroese dancing -- three steps forward, two steps back, then pause. You do get somewhere in the end; it just takes a very long time (and of course, you're only round in circles anyway). Matthew From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 09:48:38 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 17 Feb 2003 15:48:38 +0100 Subject: May meeting Message-ID: <1045493318.28066.88.camel@spqr> If you are coming to the May meeting in Oxford, we really need to know immediately, if we are not to incur penalties. o if you *are* coming, and have not mailed Judy (see CC of this email), can you do so before Wednesday, please? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Feb 17 11:15:36 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 17 Feb 2003 16:15:36 +0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1045493318.28066.88.camel@spqr> Message-ID: <1045498537.25024.170.camel@janus> Further to Sebastian's reminder, if you are thinking "oh I'll be able to find cheap accomodation for myself, I won't bother", then you have probably never tried to find reasonable accomodation in central Oxford during the height of the season! Seriously: don't expect to find anything as convenient or cheap at that time of year, even if you start looking now. Aside from that, can I urge on Council members the importance of attending this meeting. We have a lot of technical work now underway or planned, and it needs to be properly assessed. The Council is the only mechanism we have to do it with. Don't disappoint the people who elected you! Lou

On Mon, 2003-02-17 at 14:48, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > If you are coming to the May meeting in Oxford, we really need > to know immediately, if we are not to incur penalties. > > so if you *are* coming, and have not mailed Judy (see CC of this email), > can you do so before Wednesday, please? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Feb 25 05:12:19 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 25 Feb 2003 11:12:19 +0100 Subject: May meeting in Oxford Message-ID: <1046167939.13724.29.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> If anyone is coming to Oxford under their own steam for the meeting, and does not need accomodation, could they tell us anyway, to get meal numbers right? So far we have Lou Burnard, Sebastian Rahtz, David Durand, David Birnbaum, and Matthew Driscoll listing as attending but not needing accomodation.

-- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 3 23:00:27 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 23:00:27 -0500 Subject: signs of life Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030303225818.0264c1a0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Just a preliminary notice that I am seeing signs of an impending report from Consuelo (thanks in no small part, I am sure, to Merrilee) and I hope to have materials for the Council to consider by March 12th, in advance of our March 18th conference call (at the usual hour). Other agenda items for that call are welcome, too-- John 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Mar 5 14:28:20 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 14:28:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: signs of life In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.0.2.20030303225818.0264c1a0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: I've set up the conference call for Tuesday March 18th. Phone number, time, etc. are all the same as last time, and available at . The info on the TEI website at will be the same, except for the date at the top (Lou, could you update?) Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > Just a preliminary notice that I am seeing signs of an impending report > from Consuelo (thanks in no small part, I am sure, to Merrilee) and I hope > to have materials for the Council to consider by March 12th, in advance of > our March 18th conference call (at the usual hour). > > Other agenda items for that call are welcome, too-- > > John > > 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ > > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Mar 9 18:29:17 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 18:29:17 -0500 Subject: agenda items Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030309182047.026c9130@j.mail.virginia.edu> If you have agenda items for our next conference call, a week from Tuesday, please send them to me, and I'll circulate a draft agenda to this list. John 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Mar 10 19:44:34 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 09:44:34 +0900 Subject: Text in attribute values in the TEI encoding scheme In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.0.2.20030309182047.026c9130@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Dear council members, I would like to re-open the discussion of text in attribute values by formulating my position more extensively below. I propose to first discuss this here and if necessary turn it into an agenda item for the conference call next week. All the best, Christian

Text in attribute values in the TEI encoding scheme Author: Christian Wittern Date: 2003-03-11 _________________________________________________________________ The problem The underlying model of the TEI encoding scheme up to P4 has been that of some `Urtext' plus markup. If somebody would want to see the Urtext, all that was needed so it seems, to strip off the tags. Conveniently, Emacs' PSGML has even a function for doing exactly this, hiding the tags and presenting only the textual content. For exactly this reason, redundancy had been built in for things like the and element, which do express the same information content in two complementary ways. This poses unnecessary burdens on implementors and implies an unwanted priority on part of the encoder for either view of the text. There is no way to impartially state a fact, no, one has to be either pro or con. The only exception I have encountered so far in the TEI encoding scheme is textcritical encoding, where lemma and readings are (at least in the parallel segmentation method used inline) apposed at the same level, providing different paths through the text. No mythical `Urtext' could be discovered by simply hiding the tags, it would be only a very confusing array of text fragments be left over for inspection. One of the consequences of this model is that in many cases attribute values can hold text of much the same type as the element content. The consequence of this is that no meta information about the contents of this text in attribute values can be given, specifically * language identification * linguistic annotation * segmentation * linking * expansions * corrections * character annotation can not be expressed for the content of attribute values. This is just a list of things that came to my mind, there might be more I did not think of yet. This shows clearly however, that the decision to place a piece of text in an attribute value rather than as the content of an element has rather severe consequences for its future possibilities. While the character encoding group has mainly focused on the fact that any markup construct that we might think of for representing characters can not live in an attribute value, the fact that the language of text in attribute values can not be specified has even more severe consequences for proper text processing. Language identification of attribute values has been ambiguious in P4 and is one of the major areas of friction with the xml:lang attribute used in other XML specifications. Towards a new understanding of text and markup Practical experience with Markup over the past 15 years has gradually led to a different view of text and markup. Text and markup can not be easily separated as seems to be possible when trying to recover the $-1??text under the markup??; rather, they form a functional unit that only-A through proper interpretation (for example through a stylesheet or any other transformation) makes the text available for the reader for inspection. Giving this new function, the above mentioned deficit of annotation for attribute values could be easily evaded by changing the whole coding scheme in a way that allocates any place that might hold textual information to element contents and reserves attribute values for token-like meta information about textual items. This would require a major overhaul of the whole TEI encoding scheme and introduce a wealth of incompatibilities with P4. However, if this is indeed considered a valid consideration, this will be a necessary step and now would be the time to take this step. _________________________________________________________________

Date: 2003-03-11, Author: Christian Wittern. -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Mar 11 04:23:22 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 11 Mar 2003 10:23:22 +0100 Subject: Text in attribute values in the TEI encoding scheme In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1047374602.1658.12.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I find Christian's arguments persuasive. If the choice is between doing it right, and making compromises for simple processing, there is no argument. Being a namespace kind of person, I could propose that we have a spacial namespace for the elements which have migrated from attributes, so that it *is* clear which elements represent the ur-text and which the commentary (in the broadest sense). -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Mar 14 12:48:40 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 14 Mar 2003 17:48:40 +0000 Subject: Feature structure workgroup Message-ID: <1047664120.20910.39.camel@janus> Where did we get to on this one?

My recollection (possibly faulty) is that I drafted a draft charge for the ISO/TEI wg/taskforce/truc on the subject of feature structures and feature systems, for Laurent and the proposed membership to ratify in time for work to get underway before a meeting in Sapporo this July. But I haven't seen any sign of activity since then abnd I can't find the draft, which suggests I was waiting for feedback from Laurent before publishing it (unless I just lost it) Is it still intended to hold a meeting in Sapporo? If so, should a TEI editor attend?

Lou From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Mar 14 23:37:33 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 23:37:33 -0500 Subject: news of a change Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030314232314.020d1418@j.mail.virginia.edu> Folks, You may have heard that I will be joining the University of Illinois as dean of the graduate school of library and information science, starting in August. I'll also have a courtesy appointment in the English department there. I will have something to say about this at greater length on Humanist, but (following, in different ways, in Allen Renear's and Susan Hockey's footsteps) I think this will provide an interesting opportunity to continue working on humanities computing, in new ways. I would like to continue to be involved in the TEI, in whatever way you would like me to--but as I helped to write the rules for the organization, I must note that my position as chair of the Consortium depends on my being a host representative, and when I move to Illinois, I will no longer represent a host. I am also appointed to chair the Council as a representative of the board, but again, my position on the board derives from my representing UVa as a host. I am already working on putting together a bid for Illinois to be a fifth host, but I will also need to scale back some of my other activities as I begin this new job. I think the sensible thing to do would be to ask Mike Furlough to serve as host representative to the Board, since the Board's main duty at the moment is recruiting, and since Mike can do that very effectively as a member of the library community, and to ask Daniel Pitti to chair the TEI Council, as the co-representative of Virginia, since he has excellent experience in guiding community-based standards development. I think the bylaws would probably allow me to continue to serve out my term as Chair of the Consortium, though I'm open to disagreement on this point, and in any case, I would hope that Illinois would become a host before too long. John 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sat Mar 15 14:00:22 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 15 Mar 2003 19:00:22 +0000 Subject: news of a change In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.0.2.20030314232314.020d1418@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1047754822.6264.29.camel@spqr-dell> On Sat, 2003-03-15 at 04:37, John Unsworth wrote: > > You may have heard that I will be joining the University of Illinois as > dean of the graduate school of library and information science, starting > in August. coo. well done on the elevation!! I hope its fun in Illinois. > I think the sensible thing to do would be to ask Mike > Furlough to serve as host representative to the Board, since the Board's > main duty at the moment is recruiting, and since Mike can do that very > effectively as a member of the library community, Obviously thats up to you (all at Virginia) as host, to decide who you want to send to the Board. If you are recommending Mike Furlough, I am sure he'll be the right person > and to ask Daniel Pitti > to chair the TEI Council, as the co-representative of Virginia, since he > has excellent experience in guiding community-based standards > development. Have you checked the bylaws here? My (brief) reading is that the TEI Board chair and one other member (currently me) are appointed to the council, and that the Board then appoints a Chair of it. It is not clear whether that Chair is already a member of the Council, but let's assume so. In which case, Daniel could not be Chair, as he would not be a member. I know this came up before with David Seaman, the idea that Virginia has two reps on the Board (albeit with half votes each), and it still seems odd to me. I would suggest that the Board should now consider consider afresh who to nominate as the Council chair, and (until proved otherwise) choose from the existing Council membership. With regard to chairing the Board, I hope you *can* carry on a bit, it would help a lot. Otherwise, the vice chair could take over duties? Should we start discussing selecting a new chair from our number anyway? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sat Mar 15 18:27:39 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:27:39 -0500 Subject: news of a change In-Reply-To: <1047754822.6264.29.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <15987.46827.286081.495130@cushing.cis.brown.edu> JU> I will be joining the University of Illinois as dean of the JU> graduate school of library and information science Congrats! Which campus? This brings up a lot. I have to admit my first thought was, in the voice of Yoda, "Now, matters are worse"[1], intended not as a predic- tion of doom, but rather as a compliment to John. Best wishes to you John in IL, and I certainly hope you can continue to contribute to the TEI.

The Lists --- ----- John's original post was sent to tei-board with a CC to tei-council; Sebastian's reply was to tei-council with a CC to tei-board (as is this posting). In both cases I expect to receive two copies, one from each list; but in both cases I got only one copy, from the tei- council list. What gives? What software runs our lists at lists.village.virginia.edu? I don't think I like it much at all, although my distaste may be born of my ignorance. Where are the archives? (I've asked that here before with- out any response.) How does one see a list of subscribers? Change one's preferences or settings?

The Board --- ----- JU> as the co-representative of Virginia SR> the idea that Virginia has two reps on the Board (albeit with SR> half votes each), and it still seems odd to me. Indeed, the whole 2-reps-with-half-vote-each situation, while it may have had its purpose, should probably be avoided if possible.

The Hosts --- ----- JU> I am already working on putting together a bid for Illinois to be JU> a fifth host, but I will also need to scale back some of my other JU> activities as I begin this new job. Okay, okay. You don't have to chair both the Council and the Board anymore, just the Board. Awright? Seriously, it would be great for both financial and clout reasons to have UI on as a host. However, it does seem a bit incongruous with your recommendation of Mike Furlough as UVA host representative. If UI is to be a representative, part of the point is so that you can continue as chair of the board. (Imagine the throngs of us chanting "we want John, we want John".) However, the by-laws are quite specific that only 4 of the Directors are host representatives; if there are "more than four Hosts, the Hosts will choose their representatives to the Board by simple majority vote among themselves." (An election that one can really see going nowhere fast -- five votes cast, one each for five different representatives.) While I can see why there needs to be a limit of some sort on the number of host representatives on the board (what, 26 directors, none of them elected?), it does seem to make recruiting a 5th and 6th host a bit more difficult. (Not that we want to be seen as selling seats on the board, either.) Why was this done in the first place?

The Council --- ------- SR> It is not clear whether that Chair is already a member of the SR> Council, but let's assume so. Sebastian is right, it is completely unstated whether the Chair of the Council is appointed from the Council members or from non-Council members or at the Board's whim of either. But I don't think it makes sense to assume so. Because the Board can appoint members or Directors to the Council, they could obviously appoint someone first to the Council and then as Chair of it. But since the number of Councilors is limited to 12, this action would have to occur at a vacancy or after an election for 1 fewer seats than were up occurred; or else someone would have to be kicked off. This all is a bit confusing. I think it makes most sense to amend the by-laws to make it explicitly clear that the Chair of the Council is appointed from the Council membership.

By-Laws ------- Speaking of the by-laws, it seems to me that Article IV section 3 still needs some work. (We amended it in Chicago.) Here is what it says now: | At each annual meeting the members will elect members to any of the | elected positions on the Board of Directors due to be vacated. | Terms of office begin at the following January 1st. Elected Directors will serve a | two-year term, which term will commence at the annual meeting of | the Board of Directors immediately following the annual meeting of | the members and continue until the expiration of their term or | until their respective successors shall have been duly elected and | qualified. This seems self-contradictory with the term starting both on 01 Jan and at the annual meeting, unless I"m misreading something. Possible rewording: | At each annual meeting the members will elect members to any of the | elected positions on the Board of Directors due to be vacated. | Terms of office begin on the following January 1st and continue for | two calendar years.

Is that sufficient? It doesn't mention the expiration of term stuff, but that's no longer needed, is it? Note the "

" at the end, breaking this paragraph from the following one that pertains to the process of elections. (But is only one sentence, which may be why it was rolled into this one in the first place.) Furthermore, I wonder if the phrase "from time to time" as used in article IV section 1 means what the drafters intended? I am not a lawyer nor a constitutional scholar, but my understanding is that, at least in the legalese English of the era of the U.S. Constitution, that phrase meant "at regularly scheduled intervals" as opposed to "haphazardly" or "at whim".

Notes ----- [1] How would you encode that? (Note that some spell it "Dagobah"; I'm not sure which is right.) See (well, hear) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/9836/yoda/sounds/lasthope.wav From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Mar 16 10:13:57 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:13:57 +0900 Subject: news of a change In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.0.2.20030314232314.020d1418@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Dear John, Congratulations on your new Job. I wish you all the best, and especially that the TEI bid goes as expected:-) Thanks for all your hard&excellent work here. Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 17 00:05:26 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:05:26 -0500 Subject: agenda for Tuesday's conference call Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030316233107.0213ea58@j.mail.virginia.edu> Folks, Here's the agenda for the TEI Conference Call. If I've forgotten anything, bring it up under item 0, amendments to the agenda. John --------------------- TEI Council Conference Call Date: Tuesday, March 18th Time: The call will take place at the usual time--1 pm UTC (adjust for your local time...which you can do at http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html). As a reminder, that's 5 am in California, 8 am in Indiana and on the East Coast, 1 pm in London and elsewhere in that time zone, and so on, until 10 pm in Japan. Numbers: for conference call: +1 812-856-3550, Passcode 0612# for help during conference call (Jen Riley): +1 812-856-5759 Perry's phone number (busy during conference call): +1 812-855-9290 Duration: The agenda (below) is for a 90-minute call. Minutes: The minutes from our last meeting are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm04.html Agenda: 0. Amendments to the agenda 1. Approve EDW78 (on the handling of non-trivial revisions to the guidelines) at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html 2. Report from Chris Ruotolo on the XML migration workgroup 3. Report from Christian Wittern on the question of text in attribute values: see http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0468.html and Sebastian's brief response, http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0469.html 4. Report from David Durand on Standoff Markup (http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/SO/) 5. Manuscript Description: Merrilee will need to give us a report on where things are with Consuelo, and then Matthew Driscoll should be given permission to proceed with the task force on manuscript description. Council members can find materials from Consuelo's group at http://www.merrilee.org/tei-mss/ 6. Report from Sebastian on the architectural issues working group--who is on it, how it's working, whether it's made any progress, etc. 7. Report from Laurent and possibly Lou about the feature-structures working group (see proposed charter for feature-structure workgroup at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcw01.html -- but there's nothing there at the moment -- and draft of the letter proposing a TEI liaison to ISO on feature structures at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/LiaisonLetter.htm) 8. Task force on trees and graphs. Materials at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/GD/. His draft call for participation (which could serve as a charge to the task force, in slightly different form) looks like this: Graphs, Networks and Trees! Oh, My! Graphs, Networks and Trees! Oh My! Well, at least you won't have to worry about flying monkeys in the TEI task force on possible revision of Chapter 21, Graphs, Networks and Trees of TEI P4. This informal task force is limited to considering the question of whether Chapter 21 should be revised, should it simply incoporate some other markup standard or simply refer readers elsewhere. At the heart of such an inquiry, is a comparison of the current TEI with other graph encoding methods. In other words, does TEI provide any capabilities not found elsewhere and does it lack abilities found elsewhere? (The useage of the TEI graph chapter should also be considered.) No physical meetings will be held and to ease the reading burden, summaries of both the current Chapter 21 as well as the extant alternatives have been prepared for your review. Suggestions of other alternatives and corrections to the proposed summaries are welcome. Discussions and drafting of the report will be conducted entirely by email. With the provided summaries, it should not require more than 20-30 hours total, to participate in this task force up to the filing of its final report. The final deliverable will be a very short, 3-5 page report to the TEI Council on the recommendations of the task force. All participants will be listed at the conclusion of that report. (Here is your chance to help with the ongoing revision of the TEI Guidelines, along with public acknowledgement of your role.)

9. Update from Perry on the IMLS proposal, if any 10. Report from Alois on EU grant prospects, if any. 11. May Council meeting 12. Other business From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Mar 17 04:30:28 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:30:28 +0900 Subject: agenda for Tuesday's conference call In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.0.2.20030316233107.0213ea58@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > Time: The call will take place at the usual time--1 pm UTC (adjust for your > local time...which you can do at > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html). As a reminder, > that's 5 am in California, 8 am in Indiana and on the East Coast, 1 pm in > London and elsewhere in that time zone, and so on, until 10 pm in Japan. I am in Taipei at Academica Sinica and have made preparations to call in at 9pm local time. The telephone system was broken yesterday, but seems to be working now. I hope it stays like that until after the call. All the best, Christian

John Unsworth writes: > Folks, > > Here's the agenda for the TEI Conference Call. If I've forgotten anything, > bring it up under item 0, amendments to the agenda. > > John > > --------------------- > > TEI Council Conference Call > > Date: Tuesday, March 18th > > Time: The call will take place at the usual time--1 pm UTC (adjust for your > local time...which you can do at > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html). As a reminder, > that's 5 am in California, 8 am in Indiana and on the East Coast, 1 pm in > London and elsewhere in that time zone, and so on, until 10 pm in Japan. > > Numbers: for conference call: +1 812-856-3550, Passcode 0612# > for help during conference call (Jen Riley): +1 812-856-5759 > Perry's phone number (busy during conference call): +1 812-855-9290 > > Duration: The agenda (below) is for a 90-minute call. > > Minutes: The minutes from our last meeting are at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm04.html > > Agenda: > > 0. Amendments to the agenda > > 1. Approve EDW78 (on the handling of non-trivial revisions to the > guidelines) at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html > > 2. Report from Chris Ruotolo on the XML migration workgroup > > 3. Report from Christian Wittern on the question of text in attribute > values: see > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0468.html and > Sebastian's brief response, > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0469.html > > 4. Report from David Durand on Standoff Markup > (http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/SO/) > > 5. Manuscript Description: Merrilee will need to give us a report on where > things are with Consuelo, and then Matthew Driscoll should be given > permission to proceed with the task force on manuscript > description. Council members can find materials from Consuelo's group at > http://www.merrilee.org/tei-mss/ > > 6. Report from Sebastian on the architectural issues working group--who is > on it, how it's working, whether it's made any progress, etc. > > 7. Report from Laurent and possibly Lou about the feature-structures > working group (see proposed charter for feature-structure workgroup at > http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcw01.html -- but there's nothing there at > the moment -- and draft of the letter proposing a TEI liaison to ISO on > feature structures at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/LiaisonLetter.htm) > > 8. Task force on trees and graphs. Materials at > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/GD/. His draft call for participation > (which could serve as a charge to the task force, in slightly different > form) looks like this: > > Graphs, Networks and Trees! Oh, My! Graphs, Networks and Trees! Oh My! > > Well, at least you won't have to worry about flying monkeys in the TEI > task force on possible revision of Chapter 21, Graphs, Networks and Trees > of TEI P4. > > This informal task force is limited to considering the question of whether > Chapter 21 should be revised, should it simply incoporate some other > markup standard or simply refer readers elsewhere. > > At the heart of such an inquiry, is a comparison of the current TEI with > other graph encoding methods. In other words, does TEI provide any > capabilities not found elsewhere and does it lack abilities found > elsewhere? (The useage of the TEI graph chapter should also be considered.) > > No physical meetings will be held and to ease the reading burden, > summaries of both the current Chapter 21 as well as the extant > alternatives have been prepared for your review. Suggestions of other > alternatives and corrections to the proposed summaries are welcome. > > Discussions and drafting of the report will be conducted entirely by > email. With the provided summaries, it should not require more than 20-30 > hours total, to participate in this task force up to the filing of its > final report. > > The final deliverable will be a very short, 3-5 page report to the TEI > Council on the recommendations of the task force. All participants will be > listed at the conclusion of that report. (Here is your chance to help with > the ongoing revision of the TEI Guidelines, along with public > acknowledgement of your role.) > > > 9. Update from Perry on the IMLS proposal, if any > > 10. Report from Alois on EU grant prospects, if any. > > 11. May Council meeting > > 12. Other business From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Mar 18 07:18:15 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 07:18:15 -0500 Subject: agenda for Tuesday's conference call In-Reply-To: <15990.63604.630502.618897@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <15991.3719.204127.892483@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > I'm afraid I'll have to give this call a miss - I became a father > last week, and wife and daughter came home from the hospital > yesterday, a bit sooner than expected. So I'll be staying at home > today & will just wish you all a very productive chat! Congratulations! While she's still a bit young now, may I recommend that in a few months P4 will make excellent bedtime reading stories? :-) Get 'em hooked while they're young, that's what I say. (I'm actually semi-serious here. There's an age when they just want parental attention, and it doesn't matter at all what you read to them. Then they get a bit older and a bit more discerning.) From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Mar 25 12:05:13 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 12:05:13 -0500 Subject: to-do items Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030325120121.02120dc8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Just a note to say that I've written Patrick Durusau with the feedback from the Council's most recent conference call, on his task force on trees and graphs, and advised him that he may want to talk to Laurent or Sebastian or Lou about non-graphics formats for this kind of information. The only other to-do I have is to send the letter in re: the feature-structure business, once Lou and Laurent have revised it and sent it along to me. John 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:03:31 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:03:31 +0100 Subject: May meeting Message-ID: <1048695294.0000@hypermail.dummy> I think I may have misled all of you, and myself, over dates. When I actually check, I realize that what we have is an arrangement to meet on May 15th and 16th, Thursday and Friday; as opposed to the Friday and Saturday. Has anyone actually booked flights etc on the assumption of 16th and 17th? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:20 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:20 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20030201184147.0270ec18@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1048695324.0000@hypermail.dummy> On Sat, 2003-02-01 at 23:43, John Unsworth wrote: > I think we have more than one day of work to do. We're not a large > group--probably ten at most. Is there no possibility of finding a meeting > space any where in Oxford for Saturday? The ideal situation, given Perry's > constraint, would be to meet a full day on Friday and as much of Saturday > as we need, up to a full day. I have constraints on bedrooms as well. Yes, I can find a meeting room on Saturday, but I cant promise I can find the requisite accomodation for the Saturday. Currently I have bookings mostly for the Wednesday and Thursday nights. I propose that we convene for lunch on the Thursday, and work certainly under Friday pm. that gives us the option of carryon on on Saturday morning Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:11 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:11 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1048695336.0000@hypermail.dummy> On Thu, 2003-01-30 at 22:10, C. Perry Willett wrote: > I have another meeting in New York on the 14th, > so I'll probably leave on the evening of the 14th, > and arrive in London on the morning of the 15th. I > probably wouldn't get to Oxford and check in wherever, > and then to the meeting room, before noon. Could we > shift to work the full day on Friday? If everyone sends me their votes, I can find a consensus Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:27 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:27 +0100 Subject: Endorsement of edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1048695358.0000@hypermail.dummy> A. I vote to endorse EDW54 as it stands

-- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:31 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:31 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <006201c2cb89$9c1030a0$c9160880@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1048695366.0000@hypermail.dummy> On Mon, 2003-02-03 at 14:37, Susan Schreibman wrote: > Sebastian --- can you send Judy's email address out to the list again -- > many thanks -- susan Judy McAuliffe is judy.mcauliffe at oucs.ox.ac.uk -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:27 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:27 +0100 Subject: Naming of things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1048695378.0000@hypermail.dummy> I would prefer it if Metalanguage was a workgroup, since its activities would seem to exactly fit that description. Patrick Durusau seems to me to have been requested by the TEI Council to do an investigation. Does this need a name? I think the distinction between this and the other Things is that he does not have the right to claim TEI accreditation. Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:28 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:28 +0100 Subject: Web site update summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1048695392.0000@hypermail.dummy> > 3. TEI P4 in XML > > After extensive debate at the Pisa meeting, Sebastian produced a version of > the text of P4 in P4-conformant XML, which the Council was asked to review. > No feedback has been received on this yet: I have put it on the website at > http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/P4/index.html if anyone would like to take a > look. If the Council is happy with this in its current form, I could add a > link to it from the main Guidelines page. Personally, I continue to have > some reservations about it. So do I; but largely because it is not clear what people will do with it. Therefore, I am of the opinion that we should release it to the membership at large, immediately a) to get feedback b) to let them feel involved (they are always promised early feedback) We definitely want it used to update the variant online references to the TEI! -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:09 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:09 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <3E379AC3.632.129285@localhost> Message-ID: <1048695427.0000@hypermail.dummy> In lack of any complaints, can I definitely ask you to rearrange your lives to be in Oxford on 15th and 16th May, and mail Judy McAuliffe (CCed) to say which says you need accomodation. I suggest that we arrange to work from 9.30 to 5 on 15th, and 9.30 to 2 on 16th. So you could leave on the evening of 16th if needed. Is that OK by John? or shall we do two full days? Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 10:04:28 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 26 Mar 2003 16:04:28 +0100 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1048695617.0000@hypermail.dummy> > I've just seen this mail thread. I could find a room in the Ingenta > offices on Saturday. Thanks for the offer! Lets assume the meeting place is no problem, and that you may be required to work from Thursday 2pm to Saturday 1pm. Send Judy your bed requirements accordingly, if you have not already done so.... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Mar 26 11:30:22 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:30:22 -0500 Subject: Naming of things In-Reply-To: <1044223290.29932.86.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030326112635.020f1c50@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 04:04 PM 3/26/2003 +0100, you wrote: >I would prefer it if Metalanguage was a workgroup, >since its activities would seem to exactly fit that description. Fine.

>Patrick Durusau seems to me to have been requested by the TEI >Council to do an investigation. Does this need a name? It's a task force. >I think the distinction between this and the other Things >is that he does not have the right to claim TEI accreditation. Look, first of all, he's doing us a favor by taking on some work that we would like done, so I don't think we should begin by making sure he feels slighted. But if what you mean by TEI accreditation is that the TEI has commissioned the activity, then yes, he can claim that. If what you mean is that the results of the work may or may not be accepted by the TEI, then that's true, but it's as true for workgroups: the Council makes those decisions case by case. The distinction between a task force and a work group is that a task force is not charged with proposing revisions to the guidelines--though it may be asked to do work that would result in a workgroup wthat would then propose revisions to the guidelines. A task force conducts more narrowly focused or more preliminary investigations, it seems to me. John

434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Mar 26 11:33:22 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:33:22 -0500 Subject: Fwd: May meeting Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030326113131.02135df8@j.mail.virginia.edu> > >In lack of any complaints, can I definitely >ask you to rearrange your lives to be in Oxford >on 15th and 16th May, and mail Judy McAuliffe >(CCed) to say which says you need accomodation. I'm coming in on the 14th, leaving the 18th, and booked for accomodations in Oxford the nights of the 14th, 15th, and 16th, so that should be fine. >I suggest that we arrange to work from 9.30 to 5 >on 15th, and 9.30 to 2 on 16th. So you could >leave on the evening of 16th if needed. Is that >OK by John? or shall we do two full days? I think if Perry (and possibly others? Merrilee?) are going to have trouble getting there in time to begin in the morning of the 15th, we should shift the work as Perry suggested, and do half a day on the 15th and a full day on the 16th. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 12:33:11 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 17:33:11 -0000 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <1043768549.29502.234.camel@ians.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <001e01c2f3bd$c5e9d640$7e0f01a3@lou2> In case anyone hasn't already realised what's going on, a particularly nasty virus recently got into Sebastian's system, a side effect of which is that all email he posted to the list in the last month got re-posted. Please disregard any message from him which appears to sound familiar. Lou From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Mar 26 12:49:45 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:49:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: <001e01c2f3bd$c5e9d640$7e0f01a3@lou2> Message-ID: I'm pretty confused now by these errant emails, but I've booked a flight to arrive in London on Thursday, May 15 at 7:30am, and hope to get to Oxford before noon that day. I've already emailed Judy to request a room for Thursday and Friday night. I hope to go back to London on Saturday after the meeting. Is this right? Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003, Lou Burnard wrote: > In case anyone hasn't already realised what's going on, a particularly > nasty virus recently got into Sebastian's system, a side effect of which > is that all email he posted to the list in the last month got re-posted. > > Please disregard any message from him which appears to sound familiar. > > Lou > > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Mar 26 12:56:16 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 09:56:16 -0800 Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I haven't booked flights, but I can't (and I think Perry can't) leave the US before Thursday (so wouldn't get there until Friday). Merrilee

Sebastian Rahtz Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu 03/26/2003 07:03 AM Please respond to tei-council To: TEI Council cc: Subject: May meeting

I think I may have misled all of you, and myself, over dates. When I actually check, I realize that what we have is an arrangement to meet on May 15th and 16th, Thursday and Friday; as opposed to the Friday and Saturday. Has anyone actually booked flights etc on the assumption of 16th and 17th? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Mar 26 13:30:12 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 13:30:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: May meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Actually, Merrilee, I've decided to leave the Digital Library Federation Forum on Wednesday, so I'll arrive in the UK on Thurs morning. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

"C. Perry Willett" Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu 03/26/2003 10:30 AM Please respond to tei-council To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu cc: Subject: Re: May meeting

Actually, Merrilee, I've decided to leave the Digital Library Federation Forum on Wednesday, so I'll arrive in the UK on Thurs morning. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org wrote: > I haven't booked flights, but I can't (and I think Perry can't) leave the > US before Thursday (so wouldn't get there until Friday). > > Merrilee > > > > > > Sebastian Rahtz > Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > 03/26/2003 07:03 AM > Please respond to tei-council > > > To: TEI Council > cc: > Subject: May meeting > > > I think I may have misled all of you, and myself, over dates. > > When I actually check, I realize that what we have > is an arrangement to meet on May 15th and 16th, Thursday > and Friday; as opposed to the Friday and Saturday. > > Has anyone actually booked flights etc on the assumption > of 16th and 17th? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > > > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Mar 26 18:05:39 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:05:39 -0000 Subject: FS and MS and minutes Message-ID: Apologies to all council members for the continued delay in appearance of minutes from our last call: I promise to get to them in the next day or two. I have however carried out two actions assigned to me at the last meeting: 1. The ISO liaison letter is now reworded (again) and available for John's use at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Activities/FS/LiaisonLetter.txt 2. I have copied the manuscript workgroup's documentation from Merrilee's website to http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Activities/MS/tei-mmss-doc/ and plan to convert it to a more portable format during my legendary spare time This has been rather a busy week... Lou --- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Mar 26 23:02:08 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 23:02:08 -0500 Subject: FS and MS and minutes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030326230138.02165900@j.mail.virginia.edu> > >1. The ISO liaison letter is now reworded (again) and available for John's >use at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Activities/FS/LiaisonLetter.txt

I have just sent that letter, by email. Thanks Lou and Laurent. John From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Thu Mar 27 11:25:49 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 17:25:49 +0100 Subject: FS and MS and minutes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Le jeudi, 27 mars 2003, ? 00:05 Europe/Paris, Burnard Towers a ?crit : > > This has been rather a busy week... > Don't tell me... Thanks a lot for the letter. I look forward to experimenting Sebastian's work in the context of Feature Structure. Bonne fin de semaine, Laurent From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Mar 30 17:38:50 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 23:38:50 +0100 Subject: Council minutes posted Message-ID: Thanks to Virgin Trains' thoughtful provision of electricity at every seat on their trains, I finally managed to finish the minutes from our phone conference on the 18th. Many apologies for the long delay! http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html Please notify me of any errors (other than the date in the title, which I have only just noticed). I took the liberty of adding dates to some of the actions: corrections/protests welcomed. I have also, at Julia's suggestion, started updating the page at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/ to include links to all of our active workgroups.

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 1 21:00:21 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:00:21 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Approval Liaison with TEI Consortium Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030401210016.01ee9010@j.mail.virginia.edu> >From: Hae-Yun Lee >To: TC37SC4P-member >Cc: John Unsworth , > TC37SC4Admin , > Lee Kiyong >Subject: Approval Liaison with TEI Consortium >Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 10:39:17 +0900 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) >Importance: Normal > > >ISO TC 37/SC 4 Circular Letter 017 >2003-04-02 > >Dear P-members, > >The TEI Consortium has requested a liaison status A with TC 37/SC 4 (See >the attachment). >Please let us know by 02. June 2003 whether you agree to establishing a >Category A Liaison with the TEI. If we do not receive any comments from >your member body by then, we will consider this proposal as accepted. > >* A new-opened homepage of TC 37/SC 4: http://www.tc37sc4.org/ > >Best regards, > >Hae-Yun Lee >(On behalf of ISO TC 37/SC 4 Secretary Key-Sun Choi) > >Korean Terminology Research Center for Language and Knowledge Engineering >(KORTERM) / KAIST >373-1 Guseong-dong Yuseong-gu Daejeon, 305-701 Korea >Phone: ++82 42 869 3565 >Fax: ++82 42 869 8790 434-825-2969 | jmu2m at virginia.edu | http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/

-------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Liaison_A_request_from_TEI.txt Url: http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20030401/9ae52aab/attachment.txt From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 1 21:38:41 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 21:38:41 -0500 Subject: Approval Liaison with TEI Consortium In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.0.2.20030401213310.01fa3cf0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Dear Hae-Yun Lee, Thank you very much for helping the TEI to establish liaison status A with TC 37/SC 4. We look forward to hearing from you in early June. John Unsworth From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Apr 30 18:08:53 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:08:53 -0400 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5493C7C4-7B58-11D7-BD69-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Folks, Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask chairs of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up to date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I will circulate a draft agenda next week. Thanks, John From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 30 03:35:41 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:35:41 +0900 Subject: Documents from the Character Encoding WG for review by the Council In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410194235.02275fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Dear Council members, The following documents are now available as part of the results of the Character Encoding WG: CEW01: this is intended as a replacement for P4 Chapter 4 CEW06: this be submitted to replace P4 Chapter 25 I would like to ask Council members to review the documents prior to the meeting in May. (The documents are linked from the WG Website, which is at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/CE) Not all of the issues we wanted to adress have been worked out in these documents. The list of bugs is as follows: * Language identification. The document CEW04 gives the current state of discussion, but the WG has not yet revisited the issue and would be happy to hear opinions of the Council. * In CEW06, some advice on how to handle the case where a character that had been defined using the constructs introduced there ends up as a character in Unicode (PUA->UCS migration for short) needs to be introduced. * CEW06 has not yet markup constructs to allow treatment of characters be influenced by their context (e.g. beginning/end of word, neighboring characters etc.).

We plan to adress these issues together with any other problems the Council members might raise and bring to our attention. Looking forward to a fruitful meeting in Oxford. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Wed Apr 30 22:49:07 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:49:07 -0400 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: <5493C7C4-7B58-11D7-BD69-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <001a01c30f8c$3ca329f0$a9180880@MITHLAPTOP> Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been circulated, but where exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? usan

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Unsworth" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting

> Folks, > > Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask chairs > of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar > advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time > reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference > call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 > deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up to > date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html > > Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I > will circulate a draft agenda next week. > > Thanks, > > John > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 1 01:04:40 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:04:40 -0400 Subject: meeting details Message-ID: <6A2411CC-7B92-11D7-9D35-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Sebastian, Could you restate, for the record, the beginning time and place of the Council meeting in Oxford? John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 1 01:05:19 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:05:19 -0400 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: <001a01c30f8c$3ca329f0$a9180880@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <8179F22C-7B92-11D7-9D35-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> I'll get the word from sebastian... I assume the place will be OUCS, Banbury Rd., but let's see. John On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:49 PM, Susan Schreibman wrote: > Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been circulated, but > where > exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? > > susan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Unsworth" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM > Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting > > >> Folks, >> >> Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask chairs >> of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar >> advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time >> reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference >> call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 >> deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up to >> date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at >> http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html >> >> Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I >> will circulate a draft agenda next week. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 1 04:10:32 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 01 May 2003 09:10:32 +0100 Subject: meeting details In-Reply-To: <6A2411CC-7B92-11D7-9D35-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1051776631.1485.14.camel@spqr-dell> On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 06:04, John Unsworth wrote: > Could you restate, for the record, the beginning time and place of the > Council meeting in Oxford? the meetings on Thursday and Friday take place at Rewley House, Wellington Square, Oxford. The formal meeting starts at 1pm on 15th, but we have the room all day, so if any groups want to meet beforhand that could be arranged. We'll meet all day Friday at Rewley House. If we want to continue on Saturday, we will do so at Ingenta or OUCS (to be decided). Social matters: * accomodation is at Rewley House. * lunch is at Rewley House Thursday and Friday * dinner Thursday will be in a local conventional restaurant near here * on Friday evening, there will be an informal walking expedition to the river (assuming it is not raining) to either walk in the meadows or punt, followed by dinner at one of the more variegated restaurants in the area (ranging from Fish to Jamaican to Polish to Indian) * network connections: details to be determined. no, Oxford is not wirelessed :-} At the end of next week I'll send out the more formal set of instructions about how to get to Oxford, what vaccinations you need, how to talk to the locals, why you mustn't ask "where is the university", why beer is warm, etc. The short answer is "fly to Heathrow, get a bus to Oxford, walk 200 metres to Rewley House, don't drink the beer"

Sebastian From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu May 1 08:42:23 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:42:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: <8179F22C-7B92-11D7-9D35-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: Also, since I'll be arriving at Heathrow that morning, and in more of a fog than normal, could I have some directions for getting to Oxford? Thanks, Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Thu, 1 May 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > I'll get the word from sebastian... I assume the place will be OUCS, > Banbury Rd., but let's see. > > John > > On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:49 PM, Susan Schreibman wrote: > > > Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been circulated, but > > where > > exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? > > > > susan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Unsworth" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM > > Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting > > > > > >> Folks, > >> > >> Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask chairs > >> of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar > >> advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time > >> reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference > >> call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 > >> deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up to > >> date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at > >> http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html > >> > >> Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I > >> will circulate a draft agenda next week. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> John > >> > >> > > > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 1 09:00:07 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:00:07 -0400 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perry, http://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/heathrow.html has a schedule. You can get a bus directly from heathrow to Oxford. There's a good clear map showing where the bus (coach) station is in relation to Rewley House, at: http://www.kellogg.ox.ac.uk/images/newoxonmap2002.jpg John On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 08:42 AM, C. Perry Willett wrote: > Also, since I'll be arriving at Heathrow that morning, and in > more of a fog than normal, could I have some directions for > getting to Oxford? Thanks, > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > On Thu, 1 May 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > >> I'll get the word from sebastian... I assume the place will be OUCS, >> Banbury Rd., but let's see. >> >> John >> >> On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:49 PM, Susan Schreibman wrote: >> >>> Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been circulated, >>> but >>> where >>> exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? >>> >>> susan >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John Unsworth" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM >>> Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting >>> >>> >>>> Folks, >>>> >>>> Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask >>>> chairs >>>> of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar >>>> advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time >>>> reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference >>>> call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 >>>> deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up >>>> to >>>> date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at >>>> http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html >>>> >>>> Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, >>>> and I >>>> will circulate a draft agenda next week. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 1 09:06:04 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 01 May 2003 14:06:04 +0100 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1051794364.12946.46.camel@spqr-dell> On Thu, 2003-05-01 at 13:42, C. Perry Willett wrote: > Also, since I'll be arriving at Heathrow that morning, and in > more of a fog than normal, could I have some directions for > getting to Oxford? Thanks, This will be in our posting to all next week, but the answer is easy. go to the Heathrow bus station and catch the Oxford bus (X50). it goes every 30 minutes, and takes an hour. get off at the last stop in town (the bus station), and Rewley House is a smallish walk (10 minutes). Sebastian From alex.bia at ua.es Thu May 1 20:44:37 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 02:44:37 +0200 Subject: Directions for getting to Oxford from Gatwick Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030502024252.014f8488@aitana.cpd.ua.es> I also would appreciate some directions for getting to Oxford from Gatwick airport. Regards, Alex Bia.- ------------------------------------ >Also, since I'll be arriving at Heathrow that morning, and in >more of a fog than normal, could I have some directions for >getting to Oxford? Thanks, > >Perry Willett >Main Library >Indiana University >pwillett at indiana.edu > > >On Thu, 1 May 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > > > I'll get the word from sebastian... I assume the place will be OUCS, > > Banbury Rd., but let's see. > > > > John > > > > On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:49 PM, Susan Schreibman wrote: > > > > > Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been circulated, but > > > where > > > exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? > > > > > > susan > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Unsworth" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM > > > Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting > > > > > > > > >> Folks, > > >> > > >> Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me to ask chairs > > >> of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar > > >> advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time > > >> reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference > > >> call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 > > >> deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure we're up to > > >> date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at > > >> http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html > > >> > > >> Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I > > >> will circulate a draft agenda next week. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> > > >> John > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri May 2 03:44:14 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:44:14 +0100 Subject: Directions for getting to Oxford from Gatwick In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030502024252.014f8488@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Message-ID: Not such a quick journey as Heathrow, but quite easy. You can take the X70 bus, http://www.theairline.info/lgw_tt.htm, which leaves from outside both N and S terminals every hour, and takes two hours. Or (if you're lucky) you can get a train. There are a few non-stop services, but usually you will need to change at Reading. There are online rail timetables at many places, e.g. www.thetrainline.com, but British train's timekeeping is not a strong point. The rail journey also takes about 2 hours -- maybe longer if you get on the wrong (stopping) train. The train station is right inside the airport terminal though. If anyone is wondering how to get here from Stansted, my advice is.... don't. L

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of > Alejandro Bia > Sent: 02 May 2003 01:45 > To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > Subject: Directions for getting to Oxford from Gatwick > > > > I also would appreciate some directions for getting to Oxford > from Gatwick > airport. > > Regards, > Alex Bia.- > > ------------------------------------ > > >Also, since I'll be arriving at Heathrow that morning, and in > >more of a fog than normal, could I have some directions for > >getting to Oxford? Thanks, > > > >Perry Willett > >Main Library > >Indiana University > >pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > >On Thu, 1 May 2003, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > > I'll get the word from sebastian... I assume the place will be OUCS, > > > Banbury Rd., but let's see. > > > > > > John > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:49 PM, Susan Schreibman wrote: > > > > > > > Dear John -- perhaps this information has already been > circulated, but > > > > where > > > > exactly do we meet at 1:00 on Thursday the 15th? > > > > > > > > susan > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "John Unsworth" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 6:08 PM > > > > Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting > > > > > > > > > > > >> Folks, > > > >> > > > >> Christian's exemplary pre-meeting preparations remind me > to ask chairs > > > >> of other workgroups (David Durand, Sebastian) to provide similar > > > >> advance materials for the Council, so that we don't spend face-time > > > >> reading. Also, please review the minutes from our last conference > > > >> call, looking for to-do items (there are several late April/May 1 > > > >> deadlines in there) with your name on them, and make sure > we're up to > > > >> date for the meeting. Those minutes (thanks to Lou) are at > > > >> http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm05.html > > > >> > > > >> Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the > meeting, and I > > > >> will circulate a draft agenda next week. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks, > > > >> > > > >> John > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS > e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es > > Trabajo: > Subdirector de Investigacin Informtica > Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes > Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 > http://cervantesvirtual.com/ > http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ > > Docencia: > Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Informticos (DLSI) > Universidad de Alicante (Politcnica 4) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ > abia at dlsi.ua.es > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon May 5 17:32:50 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 05 May 2003 22:32:50 +0100 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: <5493C7C4-7B58-11D7-BD69-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1052168225.16988.3.camel@spqr-dell> > Last but not least, please send me agenda items for the meeting, and I > will circulate a draft agenda next week. > I wonder if the Council would like to discuss licensing, and make appropriate recommendations to the Board? I'd be much in favour of the TEI Guidelines, and derived works, being available under one of the formal open source licenses. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon May 5 20:01:28 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:01:28 +0100 Subject: Materials and agenda items for the TEI Council meeting In-Reply-To: <1052168225.16988.3.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: I have now prepared a document listing and broadly grouping CDATA attributes, as per action from last Council call, but the other editor has not yet had opportunity to check it It's at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw79.html Lou From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 8 11:55:22 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 08 May 2003 16:55:22 +0100 Subject: metataskforce report Message-ID: <1052409322.1967.32.camel@spqr-dell> I'd be grateful if council members could read http://www.tei-c.org/Activties/META/ between now and next week, and be prepared to discuss it. More documents may emerge in the next few days, but this covers the ground (this assumes Lou has puyblished the doc by the time you try to retrieve it!) -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 8 16:19:33 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:19:33 +0100 Subject: metataskforce report In-Reply-To: <1052409322.1967.32.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: This document should really be given a separate number, so that it is distinct from the index page for the workgroup's section of the website. I'll tweak accordingly, unless there are strong objections or counter-arguments. L

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of > Sebastian Rahtz > Sent: 08 May 2003 16:55 > To: TEI Council > Subject: metataskforce report > > > I'd be grateful if council members could > read http://www.tei-c.org/Activties/META/ > between now and next week, and be prepared > to discuss it. More documents may emerge in the > next few days, but this covers the ground > > (this assumes Lou has puyblished the doc by the > time you try to retrieve it!) > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri May 9 04:30:08 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 09 May 2003 09:30:08 +0100 Subject: metataskforce report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1052469007.1251.2.camel@spqr-dell> On Thu, 2003-05-08 at 21:19, Burnard Towers wrote: > This document should really be given a separate number, so that it is > distinct from the index page for the workgroup's section of the website. > I'll tweak accordingly, unless there are strong objections or > counter-arguments. you'll notice that I did not per se refer to a document, but to a web resource. it would be entirely reasonable for that index page to direct you to a numbered document.... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon May 12 12:19:32 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:19:32 -0400 Subject: agenda for the May meeting Message-ID: <83F71372-8495-11D7-94D5-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Folks, I have a detailed draft agenda for the meeting later this week at: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.html or if you prefer tei, at http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.xml Please have a look and let me know if you want changes prior to the meeting (items missing, items that should be removed, more time, less time, who me? etc.). As it stands, the following people have something to do on that agenda: Alex Bia Lou Burnard Matthew Driscoll David Durand Sebastian Rahtz John Unsworth Christian Wittern It would be especially helpful if David Durand and Matthew Driscoll could recommend in advance specific documents for council members to read, if doing so would save us time in the meeting. Christian and Sebastian have already assigned reading; on the other items, I think it's probably not necessary or not available. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon May 12 12:59:59 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 12 May 2003 17:59:59 +0100 Subject: agenda for the May meeting In-Reply-To: <83F71372-8495-11D7-94D5-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1052758800.9136.69.camel@janus> I have now given this a number (tca01) and put it on the main website. Go to http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/ and follow links from there to find all the documents I'm currently aware of. If you find any missing, please let me know. Lou

On Mon, 2003-05-12 at 17:19, John Unsworth wrote: > Folks, > > I have a detailed draft agenda for the meeting later this week at: > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.html > > or if you prefer tei, at > > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.xml > > Please have a look and let me know if you want changes prior to the > meeting (items missing, items that should be removed, more time, less > time, who me? etc.). As it stands, the following people have something > to do on that agenda: > > Alex Bia > Lou Burnard > Matthew Driscoll > David Durand > Sebastian Rahtz > John Unsworth > Christian Wittern > > It would be especially helpful if David Durand and Matthew Driscoll > could recommend in advance specific documents for council members to > read, if doing so would save us time in the meeting. Christian and > Sebastian have already assigned reading; on the other items, I think > it's probably not necessary or not available. > > John > > From alex.bia at ua.es Mon May 12 14:34:20 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:34:20 +0200 Subject: Agenda - May meeting: Multilingual markup? In-Reply-To: <83F71372-8495-11D7-94D5-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030512200404.0168ac70@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear members, I have a new issue I'd like to propose to the Council for consideration: TEI multilingual markup. At the Miguel de Cervantes DL we performed some tests and developed some tools to try the usefulness of using markup of one's own language, but without distancing from the TEI standard. I'd like to defend the benefits of using multilingual markup schemes, like the reduction of markup times, markup errors, and most noticeably the reduction of learning times due to using markup tags in one's own language. We have translated TEI element names, attribute names and attribute values (only for defaulted or enumerated values) to Spanish and partially to French. We have also developed an XML translation map, and the parsers and programs to automatically translate markup (this includes XML documents, DTDs and Schemas) from and to the "good old" English TEI. This may allow encoders to tag using mnemonic names in their own language, but easily translate the document to the core TEI standard. In this way, existent tools like XSLT transforms need not be modified since the document to be processed can be automatically converted to standard English TEI before applying the transform. Interchangeability is not affected (in fact it benefits), since both documents and DTD/Schemas can be automatically transformed to any target language (whose translation is provided in the translation map). I also see many strategic advantages in the development of multilingual parallel sets of names for TEI, like spreading the use of TEI into non English speaking countries, preventing the need to develop custom-designed vocabularies to solve problems that could be perfectly handled using TEI, and hence favouring the use of standards like TEI, with all the advantages of having institutional and user's support and being able to use existent tools. In the tests performed at the MCDL, we just solved the problem for Spanish and for "resolved" or "compiled" DTDs without extensions (teixlite like). The little we did with French was just to demonstrate the multi-language capabilities of the solution. The results were promising and the implementation was easier that may be thought. What I'd like to propose is to tackle the problem within the TEI, and develop a complete solution that includes support for several languages and integration of language choices for DTDs/Schemas generated by the Pizza Chef. The translation and further maintenance of the sets of names in several languages can be done by TEI member institutions of the corresponding languages (e.g. the Cervantes DL could do so for Spanish). What do you think? Al the best, Alex.- ---------------------------------------------------- At 12:19 12/05/2003 -0400, John Unsworth wrote: >Folks, > >I have a detailed draft agenda for the meeting later this week at: > >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.html > >or if you prefer tei, at > >http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.xml > >Please have a look and let me know if you want changes prior to the >meeting (items missing, items that should be removed, more time, less >time, who me? etc.). As it stands, the following people have something to >do on that agenda: > >Alex Bia >Lou Burnard >Matthew Driscoll >David Durand >Sebastian Rahtz >John Unsworth >Christian Wittern > >It would be especially helpful if David Durand and Matthew Driscoll could >recommend in advance specific documents for council members to read, if >doing so would save us time in the meeting. Christian and Sebastian have >already assigned reading; on the other items, I think it's probably not >necessary or not available. > >John --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon May 12 16:41:37 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:41:37 -0400 Subject: Agenda - May meeting: Multilingual markup? In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030512200404.0168ac70@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Message-ID: <20A79719-84BA-11D7-9CB1-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Alex, this is a fine topic for the council meeting, and I'll add it to the (evolving draft) agenda on my site (http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.html). Are there documents or examples you'd want council members to look at, if possible, before we meet? John On Monday, May 12, 2003, at 02:34 PM, Alejandro Bia wrote: > Dear members, > > I have a new issue I'd like to propose to the Council for > consideration: TEI multilingual markup. > > At the Miguel de Cervantes DL we performed some tests and developed > some tools to try the usefulness of using markup of one's own > language, but without distancing from the TEI standard. > > I'd like to defend the benefits of using multilingual markup schemes, > like the reduction of markup times, markup errors, and most noticeably > the reduction of learning times due to using markup tags in one's own > language. > > We have translated TEI element names, attribute names and attribute > values (only for defaulted or enumerated values) to Spanish and > partially to French. We have also developed an XML translation map, > and the parsers and programs to automatically translate markup (this > includes XML documents, DTDs and Schemas) from and to the "good old" > English TEI. This may allow encoders to tag using mnemonic names in > their own language, but easily translate the document to the core TEI > standard. > > In this way, existent tools like XSLT transforms need not be modified > since the document to be processed can be automatically converted to > standard English TEI before applying the transform. > Interchangeability is not affected (in fact it benefits), since both > documents and DTD/Schemas can be automatically transformed to any > target language (whose translation is provided in the translation > map). > > I also see many strategic advantages in the development of > multilingual parallel sets of names for TEI, like spreading the use of > TEI into non English speaking countries, preventing the need to > develop custom-designed vocabularies to solve problems that could be > perfectly handled using TEI, and hence favouring the use of standards > like TEI, with all the advantages of having institutional and user's > support and being able to use existent tools. > > In the tests performed at the MCDL, we just solved the problem for > Spanish and for "resolved" or "compiled" DTDs without extensions > (teixlite like). The little we did with French was just to demonstrate > the multi-language capabilities of the solution. The results were > promising and the implementation was easier that may be thought. > > What I'd like to propose is to tackle the problem within the TEI, and > develop a complete solution that includes support for several > languages and integration of language choices for DTDs/Schemas > generated by the Pizza Chef. The translation and further maintenance > of the sets of names in several languages can be done by TEI member > institutions of the corresponding languages (e.g. the Cervantes DL > could do so for Spanish). > > What do you think? > > Al the best, > Alex.- > > ---------------------------------------------------- > At 12:19 12/05/2003 -0400, John Unsworth wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I have a detailed draft agenda for the meeting later this week at: >> >> http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.html >> >> or if you prefer tei, at >> >> http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/mirrored/tei-c.agenda.xml >> >> Please have a look and let me know if you want changes prior to the >> meeting (items missing, items that should be removed, more time, less >> time, who me? etc.). As it stands, the following people have >> something to do on that agenda: >> >> Alex Bia >> Lou Burnard >> Matthew Driscoll >> David Durand >> Sebastian Rahtz >> John Unsworth >> Christian Wittern >> >> It would be especially helpful if David Durand and Matthew Driscoll >> could recommend in advance specific documents for council members to >> read, if doing so would save us time in the meeting. Christian and >> Sebastian have already assigned reading; on the other items, I think >> it's probably not necessary or not available. >> >> John > > --------------------------------------------------------- > ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS > e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es > > Trabajo: > Subdirector de Investigacin Informtica > Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes > Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 > http://cervantesvirtual.com/ > http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ > > Docencia: > Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Informticos (DLSI) > Universidad de Alicante (Politcnica 4) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ > abia at dlsi.ua.es > > --------------------------------------------------------- > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue May 13 04:58:15 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 13 May 2003 09:58:15 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: weather] Message-ID: <1052816295.9131.98.camel@janus> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/europe/uk/southeast.html or, for those who prefer words: it's the spring, it's england, so bring a light raincoat; expect chilly sunshine, fresh breezes, the occasional shower. L

-----Forwarded Message----- > From: Syd Bauman > To: Lou Burnard , Sebastian Rahtz > Subject: weather > Date: 12 May 2003 19:04:41 -0400 > > Any cahnce one of you could post a weather report or a pointer to a > weather-in-Oxford report to tei-council? (I couldn't find Oxford at > www.wunderground.com, and they have 4 listings for London, 2 "clear", > 1 "thudnerstorms and rain", and 1 "partly cloudy".) > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue May 13 08:38:45 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:38:45 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: weather] In-Reply-To: <1052816295.9131.98.camel@janus> Message-ID: Or as Bill Bryson quotes, from The Western Daily Mail: "Outlook: Dry and warm, but cooler with some rain." J. On Tuesday, May 13, 2003, at 04:58 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/europe/uk/southeast.html > > or, for those who prefer words: it's the spring, it's england, so bring > a light raincoat; expect chilly sunshine, fresh breezes, the occasional > shower. > > L > > > > -----Forwarded Message----- > >> From: Syd Bauman >> To: Lou Burnard , >> Sebastian Rahtz >> Subject: weather >> Date: 12 May 2003 19:04:41 -0400 >> >> Any cahnce one of you could post a weather report or a pointer to a >> weather-in-Oxford report to tei-council? (I couldn't find Oxford at >> www.wunderground.com, and they have 4 listings for London, 2 "clear", >> 1 "thudnerstorms and rain", and 1 "partly cloudy".) >> >> > > From mjd at hum.ku.dk Tue May 13 10:04:46 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:04:46 +0200 Subject: Manuscript description documents In-Reply-To: <6A2411CC-7B92-11D7-9D35-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3EC1179E.10251.1B075B0@localhost> My fellow council members, Among the documents available on the webpage for the Manuscript Description Task Force (http://www.tei- c.org/Activities/MS/) is my preliminary review of the TEI-MMSS draft (also available there). This document was intended principally to establish where and how that system differs from MASTER, and was written mostly for the members of the task- force, myself included. I have no objection to members of the council reading it (which is why it is there), but do want to make clear that the views presented there are my own and not necessarily those of the other members of the task force. Unfortunately, it has not proved possible for us to finalise our recommendations in the time we've had, but we hope to be able to do so soon. MJD From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Wed May 14 14:52:00 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:52:00 -0400 Subject: agenda for the May meeting In-Reply-To: <83F71372-8495-11D7-94D5-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: reading: sorry it's so late, grades just went in. If you look at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/SO/ This has the latest versions of documents. I will also be reporting on the things that are not yet documented. --- David -- David G. Durand VP, Software Architecture 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon May 19 10:59:18 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 19 May 2003 15:59:18 +0100 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment Message-ID: <1053356359.3197.4.camel@janus> I hope all Council members enjoyed their visit to Oxford and had pleasant journeys home. Thanks for your contributions to a very positive and productive Council meeting! A pre-release version of the minutes from the meeting is now available at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html (or .xml) Please read carefully and advise me of any errors or ommissions asap. I don't remember whether we agreed a date for the next phone call. If we did, when? If we didn't, err, when should it be? From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue May 20 06:45:10 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 12:45:10 +0200 Subject: some photos for Oxford In-Reply-To: <1053356359.3197.4.camel@janus> Message-ID: <16074.1846.748962.392679@gargle.gargle.HOWL> The Council members might be please to know (then again, they might not) that some photos from our meeting are available at http://nl.ijs.si/et/foto/teic03/ The URL is not protected, but also not linked to anywhere so in a sense it's not public. I hope you don't mind having some highlights from the Ashmolean first, and that the photos are only of the people sitting opposite me in that brief photo frenzy... It was nice meeting you all, Tomaz From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue May 20 09:57:53 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:57:53 -0400 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: <1053356359.3197.4.camel@janus> Message-ID: <16074.13409.905977.193727@cushing.cis.brown.edu> | Combining characters such as ligatures should not be represented | as nested elements: the content of a might be multiple | codepoints. Indeed. In P4 the element cannot nest (its content is #PCDATA only); is there any reason to do otherwise in P5?

| Definition of a TEI namespace while superficially attractive would | have the undesirable effect of causing all existing TEI software to | fail, since namespaces cannot be defaulted by e.g. XSLT processors. I thought about this a bit on the flight home, and I think it may be a red herring. To say that stylesheets written for P4 will not work with P5, given that we have already agreed that backwards compat- ibility is not a requirement, is something like saying stylesheets written for the AAP tagset won't work with the ISO 12083 tagset -- while one may be based on the other, they are not the same. That said, I can understand how Sebastian, who has put an enormous amount of (much appreciated) work into very nice stylesheets for P4, would prefer to keep it easy to get them to work with P5. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue May 20 10:09:53 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 20 May 2003 15:09:53 +0100 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: <16074.13409.905977.193727@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: <1053439793.1776.70.camel@spqr-dell> > I thought about this a bit on the flight home, and I think it may be > a red herring. To say that stylesheets written for P4 will not work > with P5, given that we have already agreed that backwards compat- > ibility is not a requirement, is something like saying stylesheets > written for the AAP tagset won't work with the ISO 12083 tagset -- > while one may be based on the other, they are not the same. I am inclining to the same view, especially since we changed the root element from to I think the way forward is for those of us who can face it to start experimenting with a namespaced TEI, and see how it goes. I suggest "http://www.tei-c.org/P5" as the namespace identifier. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue May 20 10:49:52 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:49:52 -0400 Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? Message-ID: <16074.16528.870872.7049@cushing.cis.brown.edu> On the flight home I read the GFDL in detail. It was so mind-bogglingly boring I was looking forward to a repeat of the safety demonstration. But it does look to be a well-crafted legal tool, and I really hope it gets wide-spread use. However I'm concerned that it may not be applicable in the clever manner that David Durand suggested and I so heartily supported. The suggestion was that we would apply the GFDL to the Guidelines, but earmark Chapter 28 "Conformance" as an invariant section, thus ensuring that even if someone takes our Guidelines and makes a modified version of them, the DTDs that come out of their pizza chef cannot look just like ours, and documents that claim TEI conformance must conform to ours, not theirs. (Have I got that right, David?) The problem is that the GFDL places pretty severe restrictions on what can be made an invariant section (an invariant section must be a secondary section -- and a secondary section "contains nothing that could fall directly within [the document's] overall subject" see view-source:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl.xml#gfdl-secnd-sect and, view-source:http://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-howto-opt.html#TOC1). Several possibilities jump to mind, including that I am over-reading this section, and it's not a problem. To ascertain if this is the case, I thought that, with Council's permission (i.e., unless someone objects soon) I would talk to the FSF folks about this. (I am a paying member of the FSF, and their offices are not too far -- I don't even think it's a long-distance call for me :-) Other possibilities include * finding some other license, * living with the slim possibility someone would actually take advantage of the license and do something we didn't like, * writing a TEI Free Documentation License. At first glance the last option seems pretty good -- take the GFDL, make some minor modifications to allow us to make conformance invariant, and presto! But in truth, doing it right probably involves hiring lawyers. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue May 20 10:56:19 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 20 May 2003 15:56:19 +0100 Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? In-Reply-To: <16074.16528.870872.7049@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: <1053442579.1776.109.camel@spqr-dell> > Other possibilities include > * finding some other license, > * living with the slim possibility someone would actually take > advantage of the license and do something we didn't like, > * writing a TEI Free Documentation License. I'd go for the middle one. But I heartily approve the idea that you chat to the FSF folks and explain our needs. That sounds like entirely the right way to move forward -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Tue May 20 12:33:42 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:33:42 +0100 Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? In-Reply-To: <1053442579.1776.109.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: > > Other possibilities include >> * finding some other license, >> * living with the slim possibility someone would actually take >> advantage of the license and do something we didn't like, >> * writing a TEI Free Documentation License. > >I'd go for the middle one. >\ As I. There's also an "endorsements" provision that allows you to specify conditions under which a document must have its endorsements removed -- the endorsement of the document could also constitute a seal of approval for DTDs constructed according to its provisions. Plus, whatever the FSF may say, we can declare the relevance of the invariance provision when we grant a license whether or not _they_ approve of our rationale. >But I heartily approve the idea that you chat >to the FSF folks and explain our needs. That >sounds like entirely the right way to move forward The only thing that worries me is that I don't think the FSF is entirely rational; I would not want to be bound by their interpretation -- or the target of one of their campaigns, if we rub them the wrong way. -- David -- David G. Durand VP, Software Architecture 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue May 20 12:40:22 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 20 May 2003 17:40:22 +0100 Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1053448822.1771.145.camel@spqr-dell> > The only thing that worries me is that I don't think the FSF is > entirely rational; I would not want to be bound by their > interpretation -- or the target of one of their campaigns, if we rub > them the wrong way. true. speaking as someone marginally involved in a two year argument with Debian about LaTeX licensing, I can testify to the exhausting nature of these discussions :-} but getting things in the open is always good. if the FSF take against us, lets get started on the battle sooner rather than later. The best way to get them to hate us is to develop a new license, mind you.... my yardstick remains docbook. there is no sign of abuse of intention in that community, which is a lot nastier than ours. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Wed May 21 01:47:00 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:47:00 +0200 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: <1053356359.3197.4.camel@janus> Message-ID: Dear all, I am not sure this topic should be added to the minutes, but the little Arthur (2,4 kg) has joined the family yesterday morning. Best wishes to all Laurent Le lundi, 19 mai 2003, ? 16:59 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > I hope all Council members enjoyed their visit to Oxford and had > pleasant journeys home. Thanks for your contributions to a very > positive > and productive Council meeting! > > A pre-release version of the minutes from the meeting is now available > at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html (or .xml) > > Please read carefully and advise me of any errors or ommissions asap. > > I don't remember whether we agreed a date for the next phone call. If > we > did, when? If we didn't, err, when should it be? > > > > > > From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Wed May 21 05:58:45 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 05:58:45 -0400 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16075.19925.756089.461714@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > I am not sure this topic should be added to the minutes, but the > little Arthur (2,4 kg) has joined the [Romary] family yesterday > morning. Congratulations! I hope mother and child are healthy and happy (father and siblings too, of course :-) Perhaps not appropriate for the minutes of this meeting, but maybe Arthur deserves a timeslot at the upcoming Members' meeting? P.S. We missed you at the meeting. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed May 21 06:14:20 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 May 2003 11:14:20 +0100 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1053512059.4855.1.camel@spqr-dell> well done Arthur! how wonderful to think that he will never know a world in which is a valid element.... Sebastian From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed May 21 09:35:49 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:35:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For option 1, I would recommend looking at . They have a series of model licenses available, depending on answers to three questions: 1) Require attribution? 2) Allow commercial uses? 3) Allow modifications? Answers to these questions lead to different licenses, which all come with both a human-friendly summary and lawyer-friendly full text. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Tue, 20 May 2003, David G. Durand wrote: > > > Other possibilities include > >> * finding some other license, > >> * living with the slim possibility someone would actually take > >> advantage of the license and do something we didn't like, > >> * writing a TEI Free Documentation License. > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed May 21 09:46:10 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 May 2003 14:46:10 +0100 Subject: licensing -- will GFDL work? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1053524769.29420.16.camel@spqr-dell> On Wed, 2003-05-21 at 14:35, C. Perry Willett wrote: > For option 1, I would recommend looking at > . They have a series of model > licenses available, depending on answers to three questions: > 1) Require attribution? > 2) Allow commercial uses? > 3) Allow modifications? > > Answers to these questions lead to different licenses, which > all come with both a human-friendly summary and lawyer-friendly > full text. If you answer yes, yes, yes, isn't the result effectively the same as the GFDL? after all, CC say explicitly: "If you are interesting in licensing software documentation or other supporting text for a piece of code, we recommend the GNU Free Documentation License." -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed May 21 12:26:09 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:26:09 -0400 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congratulations to Arthur, and his sponsors. John On Wednesday, May 21, 2003, at 01:47 AM, Laurent Romary wrote: > Dear all, > I am not sure this topic should be added to the minutes, but the > little Arthur (2,4 kg) has joined the family yesterday morning. > Best wishes to all > Laurent > > Le lundi, 19 mai 2003, 16:59 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a crit : > >> I hope all Council members enjoyed their visit to Oxford and had >> pleasant journeys home. Thanks for your contributions to a very >> positive >> and productive Council meeting! >> >> A pre-release version of the minutes from the meeting is now available >> at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html (or .xml) >> >> Please read carefully and advise me of any errors or ommissions asap. >> >> I don't remember whether we agreed a date for the next phone call. If >> we >> did, when? If we didn't, err, when should it be? >> >> >> >> >> >> > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed May 21 15:23:59 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:23:59 -0400 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: <1053356359.3197.4.camel@janus> Message-ID: Thanks, Lou, for taking and posting these--and thanks to Sebastian, also, for hosting the meeting. In item 4, I think it should be noted that the Council was skeptical about the proposed timetable for putting a feature-structures proposal forward to ISO. My notes are incomplete on this, but I do remember Tomaz, in particular, felt that it was not likely that we would be finished with our own internal review and revision of the documentation in time to have a version that ISO could vote to adopt. If I remember correctly, this internal work would need to be completed by September. Item 13: it is not true that there's no program committee for the 2003 members' meeting. That committee was established during the last face-to-face board meeting, in Chicago, and it consists of Peter Robinson, Syd Bauman, and Laurent Romary. Item 18: that's not a face to face meeting, but rather a conference call. We did not decide a date, but we did say the call would take place in September. I have just added Harold Short to the TEI-Council email list, and I will ask him to take on the planning of that call, since he will be my replacement on the council, as chair of the board, if not the council. The next face to face meeting might be at the members' meeting, if enough council members attend.

On Monday, May 19, 2003, at 10:59 AM, Lou Burnard wrote: > I hope all Council members enjoyed their visit to Oxford and had > pleasant journeys home. Thanks for your contributions to a very > positive > and productive Council meeting! > > A pre-release version of the minutes from the meeting is now available > at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html (or .xml) > > Please read carefully and advise me of any errors or ommissions asap. > > I don't remember whether we agreed a date for the next phone call. If > we > did, when? If we didn't, err, when should it be? > > > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed May 21 16:03:17 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:03:17 -0400 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <436C2E50-8BC7-11D7-BE52-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> One other thing, regarding the minutes: where no dates are given for to-do items, let's make the date mid-september, to coincide with the conference call. Even if the work item isn't really to be done by then, at least that should be a date for a progress report. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 22 05:58:48 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 22 May 2003 10:58:48 +0100 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: <436C2E50-8BC7-11D7-BE52-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1053597528.6338.8.camel@janus> I have now proposed 6 sept as due date for all actions not previously assigned a date

On Wed, 2003-05-21 at 21:03, John Unsworth wrote: > One other thing, regarding the minutes: where no dates are given for > to-do items, let's make the date mid-september, to coincide with the > conference call. Even if the work item isn't really to be done by > then, at least that should be a date for a progress report. > > John > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 22 06:00:19 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 22 May 2003 11:00:19 +0100 Subject: Draft minutes now available for comment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1053597619.6340.10.camel@janus> Many thanks for the corrections: now applied. Will sync websites later this morning. :L From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 22 10:58:19 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 22 May 2003 15:58:19 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: standards at Le Petit Blanc, Oxford] Message-ID: <1053615498.4618.39.camel@spqr-dell> all slug-lovers out there will be amused to hear that Britain's top chef, Raymond Blanc, is on the case: -----Forwarded Message----- > > Thank you for your email dated 20 May regarding your visit to Le Petit Blanc > in Oxford. > > M Blanc would like to investigate the points you raise before replying to > you in detail and asks that you bear with him whilst he does this. presumably he is investigating to see whether the slug was organic or not. ebastian From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 22 11:01:18 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:01:18 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: standards at Le Petit Blanc, Oxford] In-Reply-To: <1053615498.4618.39.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <3DD39154-8C66-11D7-9A1F-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> On Thursday, May 22, 2003, at 10:58 AM, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >> > > presumably he is investigating to see whether the slug > was organic or not. My guess is that upon investigation it will turn out to have been free-range escargot, and you will be charged for it. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri May 23 09:21:43 2003 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:21:43 -0400 Subject: travel reimbursement Message-ID: <7EDD248E-8D21-11D7-B54F-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> The form for reimbursement of travel expenses for the TEI Council meeting can be found at: http://www.tei-c.org/Members/ (tei/c0ns0rtium) John From Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no Tue May 27 05:11:11 2003 From: Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:11:11 +0200 Subject: travel reimbursement In-Reply-To: <7EDD248E-8D21-11D7-B54F-000A958F710C@virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030527110606.01cc5440@pop3.uib.no> ... and we appreciate that you send the travel expenses reimbursement requests as soon as poosible. Best, Alois

Best, Alois Pichler At 09:21 AM 5/23/2003 -0400, you wrote: >The form for reimbursement of travel expenses for the TEI Council meeting >can be found at: > >http://www.tei-c.org/Members/ > >(tei/c0ns0rtium) > >John >

*************************************************** Alois Pichler Project Director, Wittgenstein Archives http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Acting Executive Director, Text Encoding Initiative Consortium http://www.tei-c.org/ Wittgenstein Archives at the University of Bergen Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Text Encoding Initiative Consortium c/o Humanities Information Technologies Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri May 30 09:03:41 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TEI Lite copyright notice Message-ID: <200305301303.h4UD3fc10182@perseus.services.brown.edu> While I think the text of a copyright notice is for the Board to decide, since the Council is already discussing the issue, a recommendation from the Council to the Board seems appropriate. So the main question, then, is "what should the TEI Lite copyright notice read?" Corollary: when we change the copyright notice, should we update the version number as well? I'm inclined to say yes, the version number should be updated to 'P4:2003-06' (or 'P4:2003-05' if we work very fast :-), and should appear in the public text description portion of the suggested FPI for referring to TEI Lite. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jun 6 06:34:51 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 06 Jun 2003 11:34:51 +0100 Subject: relaxng vs w3c schema Message-ID: <1054895691.28981.7.camel@spqr-dell> An interesting reflection from a W3C person at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2003May/0069.html about RelaxNG and W3C Schema. It reflects some of the discussion we had in Oxford Sebastian From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri Jun 6 08:32:54 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:32:54 -0400 Subject: relaxng vs w3c schema In-Reply-To: <1054895691.28981.7.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <16096.35318.73330.211670@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > An interesting reflection from a W3C person at > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2003May/0069.html > about RelaxNG and W3C Schema. It reflects some of the discussion > we had in Oxford An interesting article, thank you. Perhaps we should post this to the Meta Language work-group with a request for comments? From unsworth at uiuc.edu Mon Jun 23 23:39:21 2003 From: unsworth at uiuc.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 23:39:21 -0400 Subject: bye Message-ID: <7142D628-A5F5-11D7-99A2-000A958F710C@uiuc.edu> Just wanted to say that I'm removing myself from this list: my appointment at Virginia ends on Wednesday, and at that point I'm no longer a host representative on the board, and so no longer on the Council. I have added Harold Short to the list, since the bylaws specify that the chair of the board should be a member of the council, and Harold's succeeding to chair from vice-chair of the board. I hope the Council will appoint a chair soon, as I know that the SGML-XML migration workgroup, in particular, and perhaps some others, are at a time when they will need a contact point on the council. It's been good working with you all, and I'll see you again, I'm sure. John Unsworth --------------------- NEW ADDRESS: unsworth at uiuc.edu From harold.short at kcl.ac.uk Wed Jul 9 17:32:45 2003 From: harold.short at kcl.ac.uk (Harold Short) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:32:45 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair Message-ID: Have been having a lot of trouble getting this message through - trying again... >> >> Dear Council members >> >> I'm very pleased indeed to announce that the TEI Board has invited >> Christian Wittern to take the position of Chair of the TEI Council, >> and that he has agreed to do so at least until the Members meeting at >> Nancy in November, at which point he and the Board will review the >> situation. >> >> Christian has long experience of the Council, and will, I'm sure, >> have your full support. He will no doubt be following up directly >> with work group chairs and on other Council business. >> >> As I'm sure you're aware, this message is coming from me as Acting >> Chair of the TEI Board, following John Unsworth's move from Virginia >> to UIUC. >> >> I look forward to seeing some or all of you at Nancy in November. >> And my congratulations - I *think* that's the right word - and >> certainly my thanks, to Christian. >> >> Best wishes Harold

Harold Short Director, Centre for Computing in the Humanities King's College London, Strand, London WC2R 2LS Tel: +44 20 7848 2739 Fax: +44 20 7848 2980 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Jul 15 02:39:27 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:39:27 +0900 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Council members, As Harold Short already announced here, I will step in as chair since John Unsworth left us. While I don't think I can do as well as John, I will try to keep us going. So, first of all, I would like to thank the TEI Board members for their support and confidence and would like to express the hope to work successfully with all of you. In an attempt to review where we are and what needs to be done, I looked for the minutes at the TEI website, but to my dismay they are not there! Lou, may I ask you to provide us with the minutes? I do remember dimly that we agreed to have a conference call sometime in September. So far, we have done pretty well on Tuesdays at 1 pm GMT. To make things simple (hopefully), may I ask if the council members are available at September 16 for a conference call of (at most) 90 minutes? Alternatively, we might try Sep. 9 or Sep 23, or other days of the week. I imagine most of the agenda will consist of updates from the work groups, and whatever else needs to be discussed. All the best, Christian Wittern -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jul 15 03:59:11 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:59:11 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In an attempt to review where we are and what needs to be done, I > looked for the minutes at the TEI website, but to my dismay they are > not there! Lou, may I ask you to provide us with the minutes? > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html (Sorry, I forgot to update the Council's index page to include a link) From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Jul 15 07:32:22 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:32:22 -0400 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16147.58950.870839.425970@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Unless I'm in transit to Oxford (for TEI Metalanguages WG meeting), Tue 16 Sep at 09:00 ET should be fine. From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Tue Jul 15 18:47:44 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 18:47:44 -0400 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000e01c34bcd$9cad7c60$30ac7dc2@MITHLAPTOP> Dear Christian, The 16th would be fine with me. And congratulations! usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Wittern" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:39 AM Subject: Re: TEI Council : new Chair

> > Dear Council members, > > As Harold Short already announced here, I will step in as chair since > John Unsworth left us. While I don't think I can do as well as John, > I will try to keep us going. So, first of all, I would like to thank > the TEI Board members for their support and confidence and would like > to express the hope to work successfully with all of you. > > In an attempt to review where we are and what needs to be done, I > looked for the minutes at the TEI website, but to my dismay they are > not there! Lou, may I ask you to provide us with the minutes? > > I do remember dimly that we agreed to have a conference call sometime > in September. So far, we have done pretty well on Tuesdays at 1 pm > GMT. To make things simple (hopefully), may I ask if the council > members are available at September 16 for a conference call of (at > most) 90 minutes? Alternatively, we might try Sep. 9 or Sep 23, or > other days of the week. I imagine most of the agenda will consist of > updates from the work groups, and whatever else needs to be discussed. > > All the best, > > Christian Wittern > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From mjd at hum.ku.dk Mon Jul 21 05:12:39 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:12:39 +0200 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <000e01c34bcd$9cad7c60$30ac7dc2@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <3F1BCAA7.12420.228707@localhost> As far as I know, I'll be high in the mountains of Bulgaria (in all senses) on September the 16th, but I could probably manage either the 9th or the 23rd. All the best, Matthew From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jul 21 08:37:11 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 13:37:11 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <3F1BCAA7.12420.228707@localhost> Message-ID: <000201c34f84$ced85fb0$7e0f01a3@lou2> Some people get all the fun. If the phone call starts at 1300 Oxford time, I can manage the 23rd. I can also manage the 16th, provided it finishes before 1415; The 9th is also possible, with the same proviso as the 23rd. What progress on the MSS meeting in Iceland btw: wasn't that going to overlap with the 9th? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu] On Behalf Of M. J. Driscoll Sent: 21 July 2003 10:13 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: TEI Council : September conference call As far as I know, I'll be high in the mountains of Bulgaria (in all senses) on September the 16th, but I could probably manage either the 9th or the 23rd. All the best, Matthew From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jul 21 17:44:50 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:44:50 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <000201c34f84$ced85fb0$7e0f01a3@lou2> Message-ID: <20030721214450.GG32623@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk> I definitely cannot make 16th, fwiw. having an OSS Watch (see .sig) meeting on London that day. other days look OK -- Sebastian Rahtz OSS Watch JISC Free and Open Source Software Advisory Service http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk OUCS, 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Jul 22 06:06:51 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:06:51 +0200 Subject: TEI Council : new Chair In-Reply-To: <000e01c34bcd$9cad7c60$30ac7dc2@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <16157.3259.390878.914608@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Christian, congratulations from here too! 16th is fine with me too - I am away 7-13th September though, so those dates wouldn't be. Best, Tomaz

Susan Schreibman writes: > Dear Christian, > > The 16th would be fine with me. And congratulations! > > susan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christian Wittern" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 2:39 AM > Subject: Re: TEI Council : new Chair > > > > > > Dear Council members, > > > > As Harold Short already announced here, I will step in as chair since > > John Unsworth left us. While I don't think I can do as well as John, > > I will try to keep us going. So, first of all, I would like to thank > > the TEI Board members for their support and confidence and would like > > to express the hope to work successfully with all of you. > > > > In an attempt to review where we are and what needs to be done, I > > looked for the minutes at the TEI website, but to my dismay they are > > not there! Lou, may I ask you to provide us with the minutes? > > > > I do remember dimly that we agreed to have a conference call sometime > > in September. So far, we have done pretty well on Tuesdays at 1 pm > > GMT. To make things simple (hopefully), may I ask if the council > > members are available at September 16 for a conference call of (at > > most) 90 minutes? Alternatively, we might try Sep. 9 or Sep 23, or > > other days of the week. I imagine most of the agenda will consist of > > updates from the work groups, and whatever else needs to be discussed. > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian Wittern > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jul 28 06:27:14 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 28 Jul 2003 11:27:14 +0100 Subject: ISO/TEI Feature Structure Activity Message-ID: <1059388035.16177.41.camel@janus> I received this morning a draft for the revised version of the TEI chapter on feature structures which is currently being groomed for progress as an ISO standard by a work group of ISO TC 37/SC4, (or, from the TEI perspective, by the Council's Workgroup on feature structures) As TEI liaison person to the group, I have to report comments and vote on the draft by October of this year. I would therefore very much appreciate feedback from the Council or any other informed TEI persons as soon as possible. Write to me or to the Council list as you see fit. At the Council's last meeting, concern was raised about the short time scale available for significant comments before the text goes into the ISO mill, so there is a degree of urgency attached to this request. I have just posted the draft, as I received it, on the TEI members-only website at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/FS/ If you need reminding of the password, please let me (not the list) know. Note that this version requires you to install a Korean font on your system: if you use Acrobat Reader v 6 and you're online at the time, this will be done quasi-automatically for you. If you're not, it won't. I've written to the editor of the draft asking for a less internationalized version, and hope to have a fix shortly. Again, please let me (not the list) know if this is a problem for you. Lou From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Tue Jul 29 05:03:20 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:03:20 +0200 Subject: ISO/TEI Feature Structure Activity In-Reply-To: <1059388035.16177.41.camel@janus> Message-ID: <801E7B4F-C1A3-11D7-85DC-000393BF3ABE@loria.fr> Dear all, This is a good opportunity to provide input on the status and agenda of the Feature Structure activity from the ISO point of view: - Feature Structure Representation has been unanimously approved as a new work item proposal with number ISO/CD 24610-1 - at the ISO TC37/SC4 meeting in Sapporo in the beginning of July, a resolution encouraged the project leader, Kiyong Lee to proceed to the next stage, that is a CD (committee draft) ballot: such a ballot (3 months) is the main stage at which precise comments about the documents are made - Since the agendas would fit perfectly, I suggested that there could be a working group meeting right before the TEI member's meeting in Nancy, where we would discuss the comments received and decide on how to implement them. This meeting could take place on Wednesday, 5th and Thursday 6th Nov. - If necessary, our Corean colleagues would be ready to host a second meeting in Corea in February 2004, to prepare the DIS (Draft of International Standard) that would go to its final 5 months ballot. The meeting in Nancy would make sure that we have people from both SC4 and the TEI, and also would allow close synchronization with Sebastian work on the corresponding Schemas. Best, Laurent Le lundi, 28 juil 2003, ? 12:27 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > I received this morning a draft for the revised version of the TEI > chapter on feature structures which is currently being groomed for > progress as an ISO standard by a work group of ISO TC 37/SC4, (or, from > the TEI perspective, by the Council's Workgroup on feature structures) > > As TEI liaison person to the group, I have to report comments and vote > on the draft by October of this year. I would therefore very much > appreciate feedback from the Council or any other informed TEI persons > as soon as possible. Write to me or to the Council list as you see fit. > At the Council's last meeting, concern was raised about the short time > scale available for significant comments before the text goes into the > ISO mill, so there is a degree of urgency attached to this request. > > I have just posted the draft, as I received it, on the TEI members-only > website at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/FS/ > If you need reminding of the password, please let me (not the list) > know. > > Note that this version requires you to install a Korean font on your > system: if you use Acrobat Reader v 6 and you're online at the time, > this will be done quasi-automatically for you. If you're not, it won't. > I've written to the editor of the draft asking for a less > internationalized version, and hope to have a fix shortly. Again, > please > let me (not the list) know if this is a problem for you. > > Lou > > > > > > > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Aug 3 09:39:59 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:39:59 +0100 Subject: ISO/TEI Feature Structure Activity In-Reply-To: <801E7B4F-C1A3-11D7-85DC-000393BF3ABE@loria.fr> Message-ID: Dear Laurent If the TEI/ISO activity is a TEI work group, what is its membership? and should it have an email list to use when formulating comments on the draft? My answers to these questions are that the membership is probably as given in the draft Charter document we worked on several months back (http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Activities/FS/tcw01.html) -- but I can't find any record of your having confirmed that so I am a bit reluctant to start banging emails off to the people listed there. In fact I have already set up a mailing list for them, but I don't think it should be announced until you confirm the membership is correct. In the mean time, I have now read the draft document and have some comments, which I propose to share with the Council, since I believe that my job as liaison for the committee is to convey the overall views of the TEI. By the way, Laurent, since I see you are in perfidious Albion later this month, would you like to make a day trip to Oxford before the LSP conference? We could probably spend some useful time on this and on TEI-2003 face to face... and maybe you'd like to catch up on things at the OTA? best wishes Lou -----Original Message----- From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU]On Behalf Of Laurent Romary Sent: 29 July 2003 10:03 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Cc: Terry Langendoen; gary_simons at sil.org; Kiyong Lee Subject: Re: ISO/TEI Feature Structure Activity

Dear all, This is a good opportunity to provide input on the status and agenda of the Feature Structure activity from the ISO point of view: - Feature Structure Representation has been unanimously approved as a new work item proposal with number ISO/CD 24610-1 - at the ISO TC37/SC4 meeting in Sapporo in the beginning of July, a resolution encouraged the project leader, Kiyong Lee to proceed to the next stage, that is a CD (committee draft) ballot: such a ballot (3 months) is the main stage at which precise comments about the documents are made - Since the agendas would fit perfectly, I suggested that there could be a working group meeting right before the TEI member's meeting in Nancy, where we would discuss the comments received and decide on how to implement them. This meeting could take place on Wednesday, 5th and Thursday 6th Nov. - If necessary, our Corean colleagues would be ready to host a second meeting in Corea in February 2004, to prepare the DIS (Draft of International Standard) that would go to its final 5 months ballot. The meeting in Nancy would make sure that we have people from both SC4 and the TEI, and also would allow close synchronization with Sebastian work on the corresponding Schemas. Best, Laurent Le lundi, 28 juil 2003, ? 12:27 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a ?crit :

I received this morning a draft for the revised version of the TEI chapter on feature structures which is currently being groomed for progress as an ISO standard by a work group of ISO TC 37/SC4, (or, from the TEI perspective, by the Council's Workgroup on feature structures) As TEI liaison person to the group, I have to report comments and vote on the draft by October of this year. I would therefore very much appreciate feedback from the Council or any other informed TEI persons as soon as possible. Write to me or to the Council list as you see fit. At the Council's last meeting, concern was raised about the short time scale available for significant comments before the text goes into the ISO mill, so there is a degree of urgency attached to this request. I have just posted the draft, as I received it, on the TEI members-only website at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/FS/ If you need reminding of the password, please let me (not the list) know. Note that this version requires you to install a Korean font on your system: if you use Acrobat Reader v 6 and you're online at the time, this will be done quasi-automatically for you. If you're not, it won't. I've written to the editor of the draft asking for a less internationalized version, and hope to have a fix shortly. Again, please let me (not the list) know if this is a problem for you. Lou From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Aug 5 12:52:44 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 05 Aug 2003 17:52:44 +0100 Subject: Preliminary comments on the Draft TC37/SC4 N033 Message-ID: <1060102364.26950.127.camel@janus> As promised a day or two ago, I now append my VERY PRELIMINARY comments on the draft ISO/TEI standard for feature structures. Comments very welcome. We have a couple of months to form a TEI consensus about this but I'd like to know as soon as possible if there's anyone out there with an opinion about this stuff! 1. The general introductory material on feature structures is useful and informative, especially for the reader who doesn't know about this particular way of representing informartion. However, it seems very strange that the introduction makes no reference at all to the way in which feature structures may be represented using XML, since that is the topic of the standard! The comparisons between the matrix and tree notations are very helpful, but why not extend them to include comparison with the XML notation? The draft could point out that the things (very confusingly) called tags in the matrix representation scheme are equivalent to the ID/IDREF mechanism in XML. It might also explain why the root of an FS in the DAG representation is represented as a type attribute, and so on. 2. Talking of DAGs, I'm not sure that this mechanism can or should support cyclic graphs. There is a casual reference to these in footnote 3 which I think needs expansion, or removal. 3.In section 4,5 there is discussion only of simple lists. Since the TEI scheme goes to some length to distinguish lists, bags, and sets (inter alia), it might be worth mentioning that not all lists are simple here! 4. The introduction also needs a para introducing the idea of feature (etc.) libraries 5. There are a couple of comments saying that more linguistic examples are needed. There are quite a few of these in the TEI vault, which I would be willing to dig out and bring up to date with the current P4 syntax if that would be of use. 6. A large section explaining not only but also has been excised from section 5.3. I understand why might not seem immediately relevant to linguistic applications (tho surely there might be some applications in phonology?) but I think it should be kept in the standard, and that means it needs to be explained as clearly as the other primitives. 7. I don't quite understand what is meant by the reference to . It is a generic mechanism in P4, which could be documented in the ISO standard with reference to alternation in general, as a generalisation of the specific etc. elements. The reason for having these more specific tags, by the way, is that they permit more constrained content models. 8. There are at least 2 references to the feature system declaration as section 6, but this is the bibliography (which, by the way, doesnt seem to reference TEI P4!) 9. The DTD as presented here is incomplete: several of its elements are unreachable. I think a tag library style presentation might be more helpful 10. There are at least two references to the linking mechanisms defined in P4. As these mechanisms are likely to be revised quite substantially at P5, I think it might be advisable to make some explicit statement about which of the various possible mechanisms is required by this standard. Some reference to xLink should also be included. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Aug 6 12:57:11 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:57:11 +0100 Subject: nag re: NEH TEI Consortium interim performance report In-Reply-To: <153707880.1060165404@d-128-197-250.bootp.Virginia.EDU> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030806174611.020e59c0@lou.herald.ox.ac.uk> This is a much more difficult question to answer. As far as developing a test suite is concerned: what exactly would the suite test? and how? The concept of "TEI conformance" is a major theoretical nightmare, as a quick search on the TEI mailing list will show: at one extreme all you can do about conformance is check for syntactic validity and the absence of too much blatant tag abuse. At the other, within a given project, you can say we will ONLY use

s and the following elements are restricted in the following ways... Validation is all about checking that something is fit for a specific purpose, but the whole point of TEI tagging is to make things fit for multiple purposes. Come to think of it, I have just written a paper on this very subject (tho in the context of language corpora) which you are very welcome to steal from: http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/rts/elra/D1.html (and .xml) If something along those lines is needed for the TEI in general I think we need to address it more widely than within the Migration wg, so I am copying your enquiry and this reply to the TEI Council for comment. The library project which Perry et al are getting underway would undoubtedly have views on the issue.

At 15:23 06/08/2003, you wrote: >Dear Lou, > >I sent you a note a couple of weeks ago asking about work on the NEH TEI >grant. I've been detailed to help write the interim performance report for >the NEH TEI grant, and I'm trying to gather up information about various >parts of the grant. > >John sent me the workplan and the status of each of these five goals: > >Year 1: >1. Redo guidelines in XML. Done >2. Develop XSL tools for producing XML and SGML DTDs as well as the >guidelines themselves, replacing P1 Snobol tools. Done: rewrote Pizza >Chef, edited guideline stylesheets to produce HTML and PDF. >3. Revise guidelines to talk about XML (not just SGML) throughout. Done. > >Year 2: >4. Task force for converting legacy TEI data from SGML to XML. In progress. >5. Develop specifications for software tools, including a testing suite >for minimal TEI conformance, in response to the task force's work. ??? > >John wasn't entirely sure about item 5 and said that I should check with >you. I know that the task force has addressed conversion tools, but I >don't think that I know about tools that check formance (at least beyond >the parsing and validation features that are part of the conversion >tools). Has this issue been addressed yet or is it tabled until later? > >Thanks! >Sarah > >-------------------------------------------------------------- > >Sarah Wells >Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities >spw4s at virginia.edu 434-924-4527 > >O proud left foot, that ventures quick within >Then soon upon a backward journey lithe. >Anon, once more the gesture, then begin: >Command sinistral pedestal to writhe. >Commence thou then the fervid Hokey-Poke, >A mad gyration, hips in wanton swirl. >To spin! A wilde release from Heavens yoke. >Blessed dervish! Surely canst go, girl. >The Hoke, the poke -- banish now thy doubt >Verily, I say, 'tis what it's all about. > >(Stolen from the Washington Post's Style Invitational Week CLXI >by Jeff Brechlin, Potomac Falls) > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Aug 17 18:13:55 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 17 Aug 2003 23:13:55 +0100 Subject: 2003 Members meeting Message-ID: <1061158436.21708.36.camel@lou> A draft programme for the members meeting is now available for your comment on the website at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/ Thanks to Laurent, Peter, and Syd for helping get this together There are still a few gaps to be filled, but the event is shaping up nicely. A draft announcement to be sent to the usual lists follows (also on the web at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/announce,txt) Please read carefully for typos and ogther infelicities!

We are still lacking * a call for the training event before hand * further details on the BOF sessions, and a call for them Volunteers to draft either gratefully received... Note also that the intention is this year to provide written reports on Council and Board activities *in advance of the meeting* rather than spend time delivering same during the meeting. We should try to set a realistic deadline for preparing these: how about 1 Oct as a first approximation?

Lou

[Draft announcement: please comment] TEI Members Meeting 2003 The third annual Members' Meeting of the TEI Consortium will be held at ATILF, the nationally-funded laboratory for analysis and data processing of the French language, based at the University of Nancy, France, on the 7th and the 8th November 2003. The first day will, as previously, be an open day with attendance not restricted to TEI members and an eclectic mix of presentations from invited speakers and TEI workgroups. Invited speakers this year include Nancy Ide, Michael Beddow, Patrick Durusau, and Vincent Quint. There will be opportunities for attendees to speak briefly about their own projects, and a "TEI Question Time" for them to to ask about and provide feedback on future developments in the TEI. The second day will contain a business session, restricted to Members only, at which the annual elections for membership of the TEI Board and Technical Council will be held. Meetings of TEI Special Interest Groups (BOFs) are also scheduled for this day: see separate announcement. A TEI training session will be organized the day before the Members Meeting, on the 6th: see separate announcement. Nancy is a noble and ancient city in the North East of France, with excellent transport links (see further http://www.ot-nancy.fr/pratique/); ATILF, formerly known as INALF, is now based at the University of Nancy and a part of CNRS, the French national research network (see further www.atilf.fr) Accomodation has been reserved at the Hotel Albert 1er-Astoria, five minutes walk from the meeting rooms at ATILF. A special rate of 50 euro/night for B&B is available to those attending the meeting (7th and 8th Nov); those wishing to stay additional nights will also pay a discounted rate of 65 euro/night. For bookings, please contact the Hotel direct, specifying the TEI 2003 Meeting. Costs: Attendance at the meeting is free of charge for Members: a small entrance fee (50 euros) will be charged for non-members. All attendees other than invited speakers will be required to fund their own travel and accomodation. [lunch? refreshments? dinner?] Draft programme: Thursday 6 November: training day Friday 7 November: open meeting. Invited speakers Open Session TEI Panel Dinner Saturday 8 November: BOF sessions Members meeting Elections to board and council; Sunday 9 November: TEI board meets From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Aug 20 04:54:44 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 20 Aug 2003 09:54:44 +0100 Subject: tei-c mm In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030820095523.0341b488@pop3.uib.no> Message-ID: <1061369684.9591.9.camel@janus> On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 09:11, Alois Pichler wrote: the Board of > > > Directors and TEI Council sites with links to the directors/members home > > > pages ? > > > > > some of the names of Board directors and Council members are not linked to > (the) home pages of their carriers, and I just thought it better, if all were. > Could Board and Council members please check their listings (at http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-Board and http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council respectively) and let me know of any changes they wish made, e.g. to supply a personal URL if they have one. My psychic powers are not what they were. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Aug 24 22:47:35 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:47:35 +0900 Subject: tei-c mm In-Reply-To: <1061369684.9591.9.camel@janus> Message-ID: Lou Burnard writes: > > Could Board and Council members please check their listings (at > http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-Board and > http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council > respectively) > and let me know of any changes they wish made, e.g. to supply a personal > URL if they have one. My psychic powers are not what they were. > I think the entry for John Unsworth needs updating. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Aug 24 23:19:33 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:19:33 +0900 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <3F1BCAA7.12420.228707@localhost> Message-ID: Dear Council members, From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Mon Aug 25 08:22:17 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:22:17 +0200 Subject: Preliminary comments on the Draft TC37/SC4 N033 In-Reply-To: <1060102364.26950.127.camel@janus> Message-ID: <16201.65401.802617.482159@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Dear all, Lou Burnard writes: > Comments very welcome. We have a couple of months to form a TEI > consensus about this but I'd like to know as soon as possible if > there's anyone out there with an opinion about this stuff! first, I agree with almost everything Lou has written. Here are two niggles: > out that the things (very confusingly) called tags in the matrix > representation scheme are equivalent to the ID/IDREF mechanism in > XML. It might also explain why the root of an FS in the DAG Not really equivalent: coreference means structure sharing so there is no directionality involved like there is with with ID/IDREF; but, yes, you could model it with symmetric ID/IDREF. >2. Talking of DAGs, I'm not sure that this mechanism can or should > support cyclic graphs. There is a casual reference to these in > footnote 3 which I think needs expansion, or removal. DAGs are of course by definition not cyclical. And FSs are usually DAGs; but there have been some suggestions that you could use cyclical FSs to model some linguistic phenomena; I think Kaspar and Rounds, Karttunen, and Krieger wrote about cyclic FSs. App. B also has a bit in cyclic FSs. As for my comments, the biggest misgiving is what do do with types/sorts. The TEI has them, but only as attributes; but types also form hierarchies, and, in some formalisms (like Carpenter) have associated constraints (introduce attributes). As Carpenter etc did not exist when the TEI was written, all this is right now simply ignored. I think it should be decided whether to a) introduce this extra machinery into the DTD or b) say in the standard explicitly that type hierarchies and constraints on types are not supported by the standard. Follow comments on the current draft: Introduction: ays that the standard is composed of two main parts - the second on FSDs is still to come?

2. Normative references Lou complains that the TEI is not in the bibliography. But shouldn't it actually be in this section, as the normative part frequently refers to it? Also, why is ISO 3166 (names of countries) needed?

3. Terms and definitions attribute: I find the discussion here and elsewhere on the status of "feature" confusing. I think the term feature should be mentioned only once, and suggested that it be avoided due to its ambiguity. boxed integer: I think it should say that it marks s.s. in an AVM, not in a feature-structure. root: I would delete 'nor any preceding path' as this follows from it not having any ancestors. ubsumption: this is the only entry where a math symbol is given - as they are not used in TEI part I think it would be best just to remove it (or, otherwise, also introduce it for unification) type: "some common feature that *classify" 4.4. Shared FSs "Her *other loves Mary" "mother" I guess. "Note that token identity .. does not guarantee the identity of their values" <- just the opposite, surely! End of 4: I would suggest moving Appendix B into end of 4 - it has the same status and it is strange to have an intro to FSs without mentioning unification, even though the standard itself does not use it. 5. FS representation (P4) 5.1.Elementary it seems strange to list all possible values of but not to mention that a can be a value as well. 5.4 Symbolic, Numeric, Measurement, Rate and String Values "rel" attribute is everywhere mistyped as "Rel" This section is missing a big chunk on : The element is to be used for the value of a feature when that feature can have any of a small, finite set of possible values, representable as character strings.

5.3 Symbolic... "This library would have a total of 1620 (3 9 3 5 2 2) entries." missing × ! End: as Lou notes, not only but has been dropped as well - I'd suggest putting both in again.

5.5. Singleton,... Mistakes in P4? "In a set, items are ordered, and may not be repeated." urely "not ordered"!?

"The element when used with a feature organised as a singleton is a semantic error; however, its appearance as a value for such a feature cannot be flagged by SGML or XML parsers." I'd imagine it is simple to find such cases using a schema language?

5.7 Boolean, Default and Uncertain Values "(see definition for a.global)" this is not provided in the current version - opens the question how to make hooks into the TEI P4 - as to a (normative!) reference, or have the standard self-contained (difficult!). 6. Bibliography I'd suggest adding at least the first HPSG book (Pollard & Sag 98) as it introduces typed FSs (although quite informally) and set the scene for the subsequent FS boom. Carl J. Pollard and Ivan A. Sag. Information-Based Syntax and Semantics. CSLI Lecture Notes: Chicago University Press, Chicago, Illinois, 1988. Best, Tomaz -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Jozef Stefan Institute www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Aug 26 16:27:10 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:27:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got the conference call set up. Info at: . Let me know any questions about this. Best, Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > Dear Council members, > > From the feedback I received for the possible dates of the conference > call, there were no objections to meet on Sep 23rd, 1300 UTC, so I > would like to set this time for the conference. > > Perry, could I ask you to set this up and inform us of the procedure? > > Collection of the agenda items will start now. The agenda will also > include the usual reports from WG; we also need to discuss the report > from our work that we will present to the members meeting in Nancy. > > All the best, > > Christian > > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Tue Aug 26 20:10:27 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:10:27 -0700 Subject: tei-c mm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Lou, The name of my organization should be RLG. Thanks, Merrilee

Lou Burnard Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU 08/20/2003 01:54 AM Please respond to tei-council To: tei-board at lists.village.virginia.edu cc: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: Re: tei-c mm

On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 09:11, Alois Pichler wrote: the Board of > > > Directors and TEI Council sites with links to the directors/members home > > > pages ? > > > > > some of the names of Board directors and Council members are not linked to > (the) home pages of their carriers, and I just thought it better, if all were. > Could Board and Council members please check their listings (at http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-Board and http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council respectively) and let me know of any changes they wish made, e.g. to supply a personal URL if they have one. My psychic powers are not what they were. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Aug 27 20:15:44 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:15:44 +0900 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University Message-ID: Dear Council members, Geoffrey Rockwell, on behalf of the TEI Training Committee has forwarded me the following note, requesting me to put the matter to a vote with the Council in a timely fashion. I would like therefore to ask Council members to consider the following training proposal, which comes in two notes, look at the websites, and tell this list wether it should be approved as a TEI endorsed training course. Since the timeline is rather short, I would like to close the voting Sunday evening at midnight UTC. Christian Wittern ================================================================= Attached note follows ================================================================= >Dear Geoffrey, > >On behalf of the Association of Literary and Linguistic Computing I'll >run a 5 day workshop entitled 'Book & Text Studies: Humanities >Computing' at Rhodes University (Grahamstown, South Africa, 8-12 >September 2003) together with Melissa Terras (SLAIS-UCL) and Ron Van den >Branden (CTB-KANTL). Apart from sessions on digitization, project >managament etc., more than half of the workshop will be devoted to >XML/TEI, TEILite, and XSL(T) for TEI users. The programme is on-line at >. There you will find >answers to all the items which should be covered in a proposal for a >Text Encoding Initiative Training seal of approval. Due to the short >time notice of this workshop (I was invited to fill this in only two >weeks ago) we're still working on the workshop material. The experience >of the instructors however and the trust the ALLC puts in them, >guarantees the quality of the workshop contents. The workshop will be >evaluated by the ALLC executive committee on the basis of a report by >the workshop leader. This is the first ALLC workshop under the new >workshop programme. I think a tight link with the TEI would be of >benefit to both organisations and to (prospective) local organisers. >Especially for the audience in South Africa, where HC is virtually >non-existant, this could be a good signal. > >Could you consider this workshop for approval by the TEI, so we could >advertise it as "Certified by the Text Encoding Initiative". Is there >anything else you expect of me? Is it still possible time-wise? > >Best, > >Edward Vanhoutte >-- > >============= >Edward Vanhoutte >Co-ordinator >Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie - CTB (KANTL) >Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies >Reviews Editor, Literary and Linguistic Computing >Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde >Royal Academy of Dutch Language and Literature >Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium >tel: +32 9 265 93 51 / fax: +32 9 265 93 49 >evanhoutte at kantl.be >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/ >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/

I requested more information from Edward on the content of the TEI section. He sent me this note: >Dear Geoffrey, > >the TEI section of the workshop will parallel the course I lecture at the >University of Antwerp. The programme of last year's course can be found at: > > >I hope this can give a better insight into what we will be doing, although >the slides are not online. > >Best, > >Edward

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Thu Aug 28 09:31:08 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:31:08 +0200 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16206.1052.593455.191024@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Christian Wittern writes: > > Dear Council members, > > Geoffrey Rockwell, on behalf of the TEI Training Committee has > forwarded me the following note, requesting me to put the matter to a > vote with the Council in a timely fashion. > > I would like therefore to ask Council members to consider the > following training proposal, which comes in two notes, look at the > websites, and tell this list wether it should be approved as a TEI > endorsed training course. Since the timeline is rather short, I would > like to close the voting Sunday evening at midnight UTC. > > Christian Wittern I vote of "definitely yes"! Impressive. Best, Tomaz > > ================================================================= > Attached note follows > ================================================================= > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >On behalf of the Association of Literary and Linguistic Computing I'll > >run a 5 day workshop entitled 'Book & Text Studies: Humanities > >Computing' at Rhodes University (Grahamstown, South Africa, 8-12 > >September 2003) together with Melissa Terras (SLAIS-UCL) and Ron Van den > >Branden (CTB-KANTL). Apart from sessions on digitization, project > >managament etc., more than half of the workshop will be devoted to > >XML/TEI, TEILite, and XSL(T) for TEI users. The programme is on-line at > >. There you will find > >answers to all the items which should be covered in a proposal for a > >Text Encoding Initiative Training seal of approval. Due to the short > >time notice of this workshop (I was invited to fill this in only two > >weeks ago) we're still working on the workshop material. The experience > >of the instructors however and the trust the ALLC puts in them, > >guarantees the quality of the workshop contents. The workshop will be > >evaluated by the ALLC executive committee on the basis of a report by > >the workshop leader. This is the first ALLC workshop under the new > >workshop programme. I think a tight link with the TEI would be of > >benefit to both organisations and to (prospective) local organisers. > >Especially for the audience in South Africa, where HC is virtually > >non-existant, this could be a good signal. > > > >Could you consider this workshop for approval by the TEI, so we could > >advertise it as "Certified by the Text Encoding Initiative". Is there > >anything else you expect of me? Is it still possible time-wise? > > > >Best, > > > >Edward Vanhoutte > >-- > > > >============= > >Edward Vanhoutte > >Co-ordinator > >Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie - CTB (KANTL) > >Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies > >Reviews Editor, Literary and Linguistic Computing > >Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde > >Royal Academy of Dutch Language and Literature > >Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium > >tel: +32 9 265 93 51 / fax: +32 9 265 93 49 > >evanhoutte at kantl.be > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/ > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ > > > I requested more information from Edward on the content of the TEI > section. He sent me this note: > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >the TEI section of the workshop will parallel the course I lecture at the > >University of Antwerp. The programme of last year's course can be found at: > > > > > >I hope this can give a better insight into what we will be doing, although > >the slides are not online. > > > >Best, > > > >Edward > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From alex.bia at ua.es Thu Aug 28 13:43:52 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:43:52 +0200 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030828160319.02ede508@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear all, I think we must support all initiatives to spread the methods and technologies we believe in with the same spirit of an evangelizing mission. So I see no reasons to object. In fact, it looks like a very interesting hands-on crash-course to be carried out by qualified professionals. So I vote for yes, definitely. Best regards, Alex.- PS: On teaching by examples From a passage I once read (and copy-pasted) from Gandhi's "Swadeshi" text, I've replaced "religious leaders" by "scholars", since their missions have much in common (take away the differences), and a nice and inspiring text results: "There is a painful thing I am obliged to mention, and it is that our [scholars], whose duty it is to enlighten people, have forgotten that duty. This is true, however much it may hurt us. [Scholars] have it in them to set an example to their followers by their conduct. Mere preaching will have no effect on those who assemble to listen to their discourses. [Scholars], too, should follow the rule of swadeshi. They have plenty of time on hand. They should take to the spinning-wheel and spin and thus set an example to their followers. More than in the repetition of Rama as they tell the beads, in the music of the spinning-wheel will they hear the voice of the atman with a beauty all its own." Nice, isn't it? ---------------------------------------------- At 02:15 28/08/2003, you wrote: >Dear Council members, > >Geoffrey Rockwell, on behalf of the TEI Training Committee has >forwarded me the following note, requesting me to put the matter to a >vote with the Council in a timely fashion. > >I would like therefore to ask Council members to consider the >following training proposal, which comes in two notes, look at the >websites, and tell this list whether it should be approved as a TEI >endorsed training course. Since the timeline is rather short, I would >like to close the voting Sunday evening at midnight UTC. > >Christian Wittern > >================================================================= > Attached note follows >================================================================= > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >On behalf of the Association of Literary and Linguistic Computing I'll > >run a 5 day workshop entitled 'Book & Text Studies: Humanities > >Computing' at Rhodes University (Grahamstown, South Africa, 8-12 > >September 2003) together with Melissa Terras (SLAIS-UCL) and Ron Van den > >Branden (CTB-KANTL). Apart from sessions on digitization, project > >managament etc., more than half of the workshop will be devoted to > >XML/TEI, TEILite, and XSL(T) for TEI users. The programme is on-line at > >. There you will find > >answers to all the items which should be covered in a proposal for a > >Text Encoding Initiative Training seal of approval. Due to the short > >time notice of this workshop (I was invited to fill this in only two > >weeks ago) we're still working on the workshop material. The experience > >of the instructors however and the trust the ALLC puts in them, > >guarantees the quality of the workshop contents. The workshop will be > >evaluated by the ALLC executive committee on the basis of a report by > >the workshop leader. This is the first ALLC workshop under the new > >workshop programme. I think a tight link with the TEI would be of > >benefit to both organisations and to (prospective) local organisers. > >Especially for the audience in South Africa, where HC is virtually > >non-existant, this could be a good signal. > > > >Could you consider this workshop for approval by the TEI, so we could > >advertise it as "Certified by the Text Encoding Initiative". Is there > >anything else you expect of me? Is it still possible time-wise? > > > >Best, > > > >Edward Vanhoutte > >-- > > > >============= > >Edward Vanhoutte > >Co-ordinator > >Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie - CTB (KANTL) > >Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies > >Reviews Editor, Literary and Linguistic Computing > >Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde > >Royal Academy of Dutch Language and Literature > >Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium > >tel: +32 9 265 93 51 / fax: +32 9 265 93 49 > >evanhoutte at kantl.be > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/ > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ > > >I requested more information from Edward on the content of the TEI >section. He sent me this note: > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >the TEI section of the workshop will parallel the course I lecture at the > >University of Antwerp. The programme of last year's course can be found at: > > > > > >I hope this can give a better insight into what we will be doing, although > >the slides are not online. > > > >Best, > > > >Edward > > >-- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Head of Research and Development Miguel de Cervantes Digital Library University of Alicante (Ed. Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Teaching: Department of Languages and Information Systems (DLSI) University of Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN, CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Aug 28 20:27:28 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:27:28 -0400 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030828160319.02ede508@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Message-ID: <16206.40432.34525.593689@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > There is a painful thing I am obliged to mention, and it is that > our scholars, whose duty it is to enlighten people, have > forgotten that duty. ... Scholars have it in them to set an > example to their followers by their conduct. Mere preaching will > have no effect on those who assemble to listen to their > discourses. Scholars, too, should follow the rule ... and thus > set an example to their followers. Modified from Gandhi's "Swadeshi"

> Nice, isn't it? Very. I think I'm going to post the excerpt above on my office door. (If I had an office door, that is.) From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Fri Aug 29 08:00:05 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:00:05 +0200 Subject: 2003 Members meeting In-Reply-To: <1061158436.21708.36.camel@lou> Message-ID: <16207.16453.448674.781965@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Lou Burnard writes: > A draft programme for the members meeting is now available for your > comment on the website at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/ > Thanks to Laurent, Peter, and Syd for helping get this together > > There are still a few gaps to be filled, but the event is shaping up > nicely. A draft announcement to be sent to the usual lists follows (also > on the web at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/announce,txt) > > Please read carefully for typos and ogther infelicities! It looks like a very attractive program, congratulations to all involved! I'll definitely try to come - it also seems the ISO/TEI FS meeting might be adjoined. The only comment I have is that the announcement distinguishes only members and non-members; what about "individual subscribers"? Do they pay attendance? Can they participate (not in voting of course) on Saturday? If there is a consistent policy (e.g. subscriber = member - voting) then the text could just remain the same. Is there? > Note also that the intention is this year to provide written reports on > Council and Board activities *in advance of the meeting* rather than > spend time delivering same during the meeting. We should try to set a > realistic deadline for preparing these: how about 1 Oct as a first > approximation? I will be away till 20th, so that sounds fine to me. > TEI Members Meeting 2003 > Groups (BOFs) are also scheduled for this day: see separate announcement. I have to ask: why BOF? And what are these SIGs? Best, Tomaz From mjd at hum.ku.dk Sat Aug 30 09:39:43 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:39:43 +0200 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University In-Reply-To: <16206.1052.593455.191024@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <3F50C53F.16640.2F8F12@localhost> I agree with Tomaz's "definitely yes". Only wish I could take part. MJD From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Sun Aug 31 10:42:07 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:42:07 -0400 Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a401c36fce$0e8d6740$24170880@negrito> Dear All -- I agree with the others, especially Alex -- this looks like a great course and we should be doing what we can to encourage more TEI training usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Wittern" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:15 PM Subject: Request for approval: TEI Training Course at Rhodes University

> > Dear Council members, > > Geoffrey Rockwell, on behalf of the TEI Training Committee has > forwarded me the following note, requesting me to put the matter to a > vote with the Council in a timely fashion. > > I would like therefore to ask Council members to consider the > following training proposal, which comes in two notes, look at the > websites, and tell this list wether it should be approved as a TEI > endorsed training course. Since the timeline is rather short, I would > like to close the voting Sunday evening at midnight UTC. > > Christian Wittern > > ================================================================= > Attached note follows > ================================================================= > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >On behalf of the Association of Literary and Linguistic Computing I'll > >run a 5 day workshop entitled 'Book & Text Studies: Humanities > >Computing' at Rhodes University (Grahamstown, South Africa, 8-12 > >September 2003) together with Melissa Terras (SLAIS-UCL) and Ron Van den > >Branden (CTB-KANTL). Apart from sessions on digitization, project > >managament etc., more than half of the workshop will be devoted to > >XML/TEI, TEILite, and XSL(T) for TEI users. The programme is on-line at > >. There you will find > >answers to all the items which should be covered in a proposal for a > >Text Encoding Initiative Training seal of approval. Due to the short > >time notice of this workshop (I was invited to fill this in only two > >weeks ago) we're still working on the workshop material. The experience > >of the instructors however and the trust the ALLC puts in them, > >guarantees the quality of the workshop contents. The workshop will be > >evaluated by the ALLC executive committee on the basis of a report by > >the workshop leader. This is the first ALLC workshop under the new > >workshop programme. I think a tight link with the TEI would be of > >benefit to both organisations and to (prospective) local organisers. > >Especially for the audience in South Africa, where HC is virtually > >non-existant, this could be a good signal. > > > >Could you consider this workshop for approval by the TEI, so we could > >advertise it as "Certified by the Text Encoding Initiative". Is there > >anything else you expect of me? Is it still possible time-wise? > > > >Best, > > > >Edward Vanhoutte > >-- > > > >============= > >Edward Vanhoutte > >Co-ordinator > >Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie - CTB (KANTL) > >Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies > >Reviews Editor, Literary and Linguistic Computing > >Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde > >Royal Academy of Dutch Language and Literature > >Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium > >tel: +32 9 265 93 51 / fax: +32 9 265 93 49 > >evanhoutte at kantl.be > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/ > >http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ > > > I requested more information from Edward on the content of the TEI > section. He sent me this note: > > >Dear Geoffrey, > > > >the TEI section of the workshop will parallel the course I lecture at the > >University of Antwerp. The programme of last year's course can be found at: > > > > > >I hope this can give a better insight into what we will be doing, although > >the slides are not online. > > > >Best, > > > >Edward > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Sun Aug 31 09:07:54 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 15:07:54 +0200 Subject: tei-c mm In-Reply-To: <1061369684.9591.9.camel@janus> Message-ID: <222BA712-DBB4-11D7-B44A-000393B03DE6@loria.fr> Hi Lou, One more thing done, I have checked my listing: could you point to http://www.loria.fr/equipes/led/ as my web page. This is the page of my research team, which is regularly updated, as opposed to my own one, which should be 7 year old by now... Best Laurent Le mercredi, 20 ao? 2003, ? 10:54 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 09:11, Alois Pichler wrote: > the Board of >>>> Directors and TEI Council sites with links to the directors/members >>>> home >>>> pages ? >>>> >> >> some of the names of Board directors and Council members are not >> linked to >> (the) home pages of their carriers, and I just thought it better, if >> all were. >> > > Could Board and Council members please check their listings (at > http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-Board and > http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council > respectively) > and let me know of any changes they wish made, e.g. to supply a > personal > URL if they have one. My psychic powers are not what they were. > > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Aug 31 20:46:26 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:46:26 +0900 Subject: Fwd: TEI training course In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Geoffrey, The TEI Council voted on this matter and the proposal was approved without dissenting vote, although due to the short time available for voting, not all council-members did cast a vote. Of the votes cast, all comments were enthousiastic and endorsed the proposal fully. Here are some of the opinions: I think we must support all initiatives to spread the methods and technologies we believe in with the same spirit of an evangelizing mission. So I see no reasons to object. In fact, it looks like a very interesting hands-on crash-course to be carried out by qualified professionals. So I vote for yes, definitely. I agree with the others, [...] -- this looks like a great course and we should be doing what we can to encourage more TEI training I vote of "definitely yes"! Impressive. So all I can add to this is that I wish the training course good success! Allt the best, Christian Wittern -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Sep 7 17:34:55 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 07 Sep 2003 22:34:55 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1062970495.17415.252.camel@spqr-dell> I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight earlier than I expected. I will brief Lou to respond on my behalf to any agenda items which affect me. -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Sep 7 19:56:29 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 08:56:29 +0900 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <1062970495.17415.252.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on > September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight > earlier than I expected. > Hm. I'd rather have you present live on the meeting. Would it help to move it to Sep 30 (assuming and hoping that there are no severe obstacles to other members)? All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Sep 8 04:01:08 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:01:08 -0700 Subject: Merrilee Proffitt is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 09/06/2003 and will not return until 09/11/2003. I will respond to your message when I return on September 11th. From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Sep 8 12:37:19 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:37:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sept. 30 is fine with me. Perry

On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on > > September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight > > earlier than I expected. > > > > Hm. I'd rather have you present live on the meeting. Would it help > to move it to Sep 30 (assuming and hoping that there are no severe > obstacles to other members)? > > All the best, > > Christian > > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Mon Sep 8 13:33:44 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 13:33:44 -0400 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00cd01c3762f$5a4f41f0$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> fine with me also -- susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Perry Willett" To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Re: TEI Council : September conference call

> Sept. 30 is fine with me. > > Perry > > > On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > > > I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on > > > September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight > > > earlier than I expected. > > > > > > > Hm. I'd rather have you present live on the meeting. Would it help > > to move it to Sep 30 (assuming and hoping that there are no severe > > obstacles to other members)? > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > From alex.bia at ua.es Wed Sep 10 05:20:03 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:20:03 +0200 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030910111853.0345ef40@aitana.cpd.ua.es> September 30 is fine with me also. Alex.- At 18:37 08/09/2003, you wrote: >Sept. 30 is fine with me. > >Perry > >On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > > > I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on > > > September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight > > > earlier than I expected. > > > > > > > Hm. I'd rather have you present live on the meeting. Would it help > > to move it to Sep 30 (assuming and hoping that there are no severe > > obstacles to other members)? > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Sep 11 14:10:33 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Christian et al., Have we agreed to move the date of the conference call to the 30th? I'll need to arrange the new date and cancel the one on the 23rd with our telecom people. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > I am sorry to say that I cannot after all take part in the meeting on > > September 23rd. To get to a meeting in the USA I had to arrange a flight > > earlier than I expected. > > > > Hm. I'd rather have you present live on the meeting. Would it help > to move it to Sep 30 (assuming and hoping that there are no severe > obstacles to other members)? > > All the best, > > Christian > > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Sep 11 18:25:54 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 11 Sep 2003 23:25:54 +0100 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1063319154.9074.27.camel@spqr-dell> I am afraid I cannot make September 30th either. I am at the Open University that day, away from a useable phone Sebastian From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Sep 11 18:27:27 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:27:27 -0700 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I can make the 30th.

Sebastian Rahtz Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU 09/11/2003 03:25 PM Please respond to tei-council To: TEI Council cc: Subject: Re: TEI Council : September conference call

I am afraid I cannot make September 30th either. I am at the Open University that day, away from a useable phone Sebastian From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Sep 11 20:22:12 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:22:12 +0900 Subject: TEI Council : September conference call In-Reply-To: <1063319154.9074.27.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Dear Council members,

Sebastian Rahtz writes: > I am afraid I cannot make September 30th either. I am at the Open > University that day, away from a useable phone

In this case, I think we have to face the fact that the call will have to go ahead without Sebastian. There is also no reason to move the meeting anymore, so I hope to talk to all of you (except Sebastian) on September 23, 1300 UTC. Perry has already set up the call. I would like to ask the Council members to look at the minutes from the last meeting at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html and identify and act on any action items that are due. May I also ask those who want to discuss progress of WG's etc. to submit the relevant papers a week before the call, that is by September 16, so that the council members have time to review the documents. All the best, Christian Wittern

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Alois.Pichler at aksis.uib.no Fri Sep 12 06:21:25 2003 From: Alois.Pichler at aksis.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:21:25 +0200 Subject: TEI-C 2003 Members Meeting Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030912121755.01e3b540@pop3.uib.no> TEXT ENCODING INITIATIVE CONSORTIUM (TEI-C) MEMBERS MEETING 2003

Dear TEI-C Council member The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium (TEI-C) will hold its THIRD ANNUAL MEMBERS MEETING at ATILF, the nationally-funded laboratory for analysis and data processing of the French language, based at the University of Nancy, France, on the 7th and the 8th November 2003. The FIRST DAY will, as usual, be an open day with attendance open to all interested parties and an eclectic mix of presentations and discussions from invited speakers and participants. Invited speakers this year include Nancy Ide, Michael Beddow, Patrick Durusau, Stuart Brown and Vincent Quint. There will be opportunities for attendees to speak briefly about their own projects, and a "TEI Question Time" for them to ask about and provide feedback on future developments in the TEI. The meeting will run all day and will conclude with a Reception at 18:30. Full details of the programme are available on the Members web site at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/. The SECOND DAY will contain a business session, restricted to members and subscribers only, at which the annual elections for membership of the TEI-C Board and TEI-C Council will be held. Meetings of TEI Special Interest Groups (SIGs) are also scheduled for this day; information about SIG sessions will be supplied on the http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/ site. A TEI TRAINING SESSION will be organized the day before the Members Meeting, on the 6th: information about the training session will be supplied on the http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/ site. ELECTIONS to the TEI-C Council and TEI-C Board will take place on the second day, November 8th, according to the procedures defined in the TEI-C Charter and Bylaws. Votes may be cast in person, by post or fax, or by email; see further Article 2 of the TEI-C Bylaws on http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEIby-A2.html. Ballot papers for the elections 2003, including the form to be used by members wishing to cast proxy votes, may be downloaded from http://www.tei-c.org/Members/Ballot_papers.pdf (available soon). Only members, but not subscribers, are entitled to vote. Only members who have paid the 2003 membership contribution are entitled to vote. Only member electors or their proxies are entitled to vote. For candidates standing for 2003 election to the TEI-C Council and TEI-C Board, see http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2003-Nancy/mm15.html. NANCY is a noble and ancient city in the North East of France, with excellent transport links (see further http://www.ot-nancy.fr/pratique/); ATILF, formerly known as INALF, is now based at the University of Nancy and a part of CNRS, the French national research network (see further http://www.atilf.fr). Accomodation has been reserved at the Hotel Albert 1er-Astoria (http://www.discountparishotels.net/nancy/inter-hotel-albert-1er-astoria.htm), five minutes walk from the meeting rooms at ATILF. A special rate of 50 euro/night for B&B is available to those attending the meeting; those wishing to stay additional nights will pay a discounted rate of 65 euro/night. For bookings, please contact the Hotel direct, specifying the TEI-C 2003 Meeting. COSTS: Attendance at the meeting is free of charge for TEI-C subscribers. Every TEI-C member institution is entitled to send up to two representatives free of charge for attendance. An entrance fee of 75 euros will be charged for all others. All attendees other than invited speakers will be required to fund their own travel, accomodation, and meal costs. PRE-REGISTRATION for the meeting is essential, for members, subscribers, and non-members alike. Please pre-register by sending email to membership at tei-c.org. Best regards Alois Pichler Acting Executive Director, Text Encoding Initiative Consortium http://www.tei-c.org/

*************************************************** Alois Pichler Project Director, Wittgenstein Archives http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Acting Executive Director, Text Encoding Initiative Consortium http://www.tei-c.org/ Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway, Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 Forskningsgruppe for tekstteknologi / Research Group for Text Technology Avdeling for kultur, spr?k og informasjonsteknologi (AKSIS) / Department of culture, language and information technology (AKSIS) Unifob AS Universitetet i Bergen / University of Bergen From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Sep 17 09:27:19 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 08:27:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Utter confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm utterly confused now about the time of the conference call. I've set it up for what I think is 13:00 UTC on 9/23. Could everyone check at just to be sure I've got this right? Sorry for the confusion--this newfangled daylight savings time confuses peabrains like me. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Wed Sep 17 10:08:36 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:08:36 -0400 Subject: Utter confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16232.27364.517006.525213@cushing.cis.brown.edu> I think 2003-09-23 13:00 UTC is: 06:00 PDT (poor Merrilee in CA) 08:00 EST (for you in IN) 09:00 EDT (Virginia, Providence, Maryland, Pittsburgh, etc.) 13:00 GMT (Iceland, in case Matthew is still there) 14:00 BST (Oxford) 15:00 CEST (Spain, Slovenia, France, Denmark) 22:00 I (Kyoto) Did I miss anyone? Make any mistakes? (Christian -- is there a long form name for UTC+9, which I think is where you are?) http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=43,892,224,736,136,538,195,141,211 From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Sep 17 10:22:35 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:22:35 -0700 Subject: Utter confusion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Right. Poor Merrilee in CA (usually) will be in Minneapolis. Which would be a good thing, but I'll be on a plane, so won't be able to make the call (I just realized). Have fun without me. As soon as I land in NYC, and can get to a web site, I'll be checking the IMLS web site (or cocking my ear towards Indiana in hopes of hearing cackles of joy). Merrilee

Syd Bauman Sent by: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU 09/17/2003 07:08 AM Please respond to tei-council To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu cc: Subject: Re: Utter confusion

I think 2003-09-23 13:00 UTC is: 06:00 PDT (poor Merrilee in CA) 08:00 EST (for you in IN) 09:00 EDT (Virginia, Providence, Maryland, Pittsburgh, etc.) 13:00 GMT (Iceland, in case Matthew is still there) 14:00 BST (Oxford) 15:00 CEST (Spain, Slovenia, France, Denmark) 22:00 I (Kyoto) Did I miss anyone? Make any mistakes? (Christian -- is there a long form name for UTC+9, which I think is where you are?) http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=43,892,224,736,136,538,195,141,211 From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Sep 17 10:40:15 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:40:15 -0500 (EST) Subject: Utter confusion In-Reply-To: <16232.27364.517006.525213@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: Thanks all--checking my calendar for the last time we held a conference call during daylight savings time, it seemed to be an hour earlier. The times on the TimeAndDate website for that day didn't match my calendar either, so I panicked. As long as everyone is okay with this time, I'm okay too. A bill to introduce daylight savings time to Indiana didn't even make it to the floor of the state legislature for a vote this term, so we proudly remain out of step with the rest of the industrialized world . Sorry to broadcast my general confusion, Perry pwillett at indiana.edu On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Syd Bauman wrote: > I think 2003-09-23 13:00 UTC is: > 06:00 PDT (poor Merrilee in CA) > 08:00 EST (for you in IN) > 09:00 EDT (Virginia, Providence, Maryland, Pittsburgh, etc.) > 13:00 GMT (Iceland, in case Matthew is still there) > 14:00 BST (Oxford) > 15:00 CEST (Spain, Slovenia, France, Denmark) > 22:00 I (Kyoto) > > Did I miss anyone? Make any mistakes? (Christian -- is there a long > form name for UTC+9, which I think is where you are?) > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=43,892,224,736,136,538,195,141,211 > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Sep 18 20:33:47 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:33:47 +0900 Subject: Utter confusion In-Reply-To: <16232.27364.517006.525213@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: Syd Bauman writes: > I think 2003-09-23 13:00 UTC is: > 06:00 PDT (poor Merrilee in CA) > 08:00 EST (for you in IN) > 09:00 EDT (Virginia, Providence, Maryland, Pittsburgh, etc.) > 13:00 GMT (Iceland, in case Matthew is still there) > 14:00 BST (Oxford) > 15:00 CEST (Spain, Slovenia, France, Denmark) > 22:00 I (Kyoto) > > Did I miss anyone? Make any mistakes? (Christian -- is there a long > form name for UTC+9, which I think is where you are?) The abbreviation is JST, which probably stands for Japanese Standard Time. They do not have daylight saving time here either, if that is any relief to Perry, which means that nightfall is no shortly after 6 pm. All the best, Christian

Agenda: 7 items, not more than 15 minutes apiece. ----------------------------------------------------- 1) Update from Chris Ruotolo on the SGML-XML Migration Working Group (15 minutes) Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw76.html Materials at: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/MI/ ----------------------------------------------------- 2) Minutes of the last conference call, minute-taker for this one. (15 minutes) Minutes of our meeting in Oxford are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm07.html Review of action items, progress. (license, term bank, EDW79, term bank, MS meeting) ----------------------------------------------------- 3) Update from Lou Burnard on Metalanguage Workgroup (15 minutes) Charge at: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/META/

----------------------------------------------------- 4) Update from Christian Wittern on Character Encoding Workgroup (10 minutes) Charge at: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/ce01.html

----------------------------------------------------- 5) Update from David Durand on the Stand-Off Markup Working Group (15 minutes) (Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw74.html, website http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/SO/) ----------------------------------------------------- 6) Report from Laurent Romary on progress of the Feature Structures Working Group. (15 minutes) (Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/FS/tcw01.html, website http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/FS/)

----------------------------------------------------- 7) Next Meetings: (5 minutes) Members meeting, next Council meeting?

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Sep 22 09:22:34 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:22:34 +0900 Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call Message-ID: Dear Council members, It just occured to me that I forgot to put a discussion of our report to MM2003 on the agenda. Please add this to the end. Further additions or changes will be discussed at the beginning of the call if necessary. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Mon Sep 22 10:54:21 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:54:21 +0200 Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16239.3357.506509.348217@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Hello, I'd add to the beginning a question (to be answered, I assume, at the end) on the up-keep of the TEI projects page http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Applications/index.html Namely, a project is making a TEI corpus / lexicon of the Resian dialect (Han Steenwijk, Universita di Padova, http://www.resianica.it/) and they have submitted - on my urging - a note on it a couple of weeks ago to tei at oucs.ox.ac.uk but so far no changes. H.Steenwijk also notes: > No, I did not receive any response. As concerning bugs, I find it strange that > in the list ordered according to "corpus language" some projects are on > "English", others, however, on "english". Till tomorrow, Tomaz Christian Wittern writes: > > Dear Council members, > > It just occured to me that I forgot to put a discussion of our report to MM2003 on the agenda. Please add this to the end. Further additions or changes will be discussed at the beginning of the call if necessary. > > All the best, > > Christian > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Sep 22 11:42:58 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:42:58 +0100 Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call In-Reply-To: <16239.3357.506509.348217@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <000b01c38120$35de8d20$7e0f01a3@lou2> Problems of this nature should be addressed to the TEI web master, namely me. I don't think they need take up the council's time. In this particular case, the problem was one of timing. Submissions are held in a temporary file on the server, and I move them to the website now and then, especially when prodded by an email to remind me. Unfortunately, we lost power to all our systems on Friday, because of an electrical fault, so I fear that the data for this site (and any others unprocessed since I last checked for them) is lost. I will write to Dr Steenwijk and apologise, if you give me his email address. The real problem, of course, is that we don't have anyone working fulltime on the website since Stuart left: we could get someone, but they'd need to be paid. That's an issue for the Board to decide, I think. Lou

-----Original Message----- From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Tomaz Erjavec Sent: 22 September 2003 15:54 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call Hello, I'd add to the beginning a question (to be answered, I assume, at the end) on the up-keep of the TEI projects page http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Applications/index.html Namely, a project is making a TEI corpus / lexicon of the Resian dialect (Han Steenwijk, Universita di Padova, http://www.resianica.it/) and they have submitted - on my urging - a note on it a couple of weeks ago to tei at oucs.ox.ac.uk but so far no changes. H.Steenwijk also notes: > No, I did not receive any response. As concerning bugs, I find it strange that > in the list ordered according to "corpus language" some projects are on > "English", others, however, on "english". Till tomorrow, Tomaz Christian Wittern writes: > > Dear Council members, > > It just occured to me that I forgot to put a discussion of our report to MM2003 on the agenda. Please add this to the end. Further additions or changes will be discussed at the beginning of the call if necessary. > > All the best, > > Christian > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Mon Sep 22 13:23:21 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:23:21 +0200 Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call In-Reply-To: <000b01c38120$35de8d20$7e0f01a3@lou2> Message-ID: <16239.12297.870777.84084@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Lou Burnard writes: > Problems of this nature should be addressed to the TEI web master, > namely me. I don't think they need take up the council's time. I would agree with you completely, if what you say (i.e. that the question of a TEI web master should be raised) did not occur to me too. So let's reformulate the point.. PS: It's Prof. han.steenwijk at unipd.it Best, Tomaz > > In this particular case, the problem was one of timing. Submissions are > held in a temporary file on the server, and I move them to the website > now and then, especially when prodded by an email to remind me. > Unfortunately, we lost power to all our systems on Friday, because of an > electrical fault, so I fear that the data for this site (and any others > unprocessed since I last checked for them) is lost. > > I will write to Dr Steenwijk and apologise, if you give me his email > address. > > The real problem, of course, is that we don't have anyone working > fulltime on the website since Stuart left: we could get someone, but > they'd need to be paid. That's an issue for the Board to decide, I > think. > > Lou > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.Virginia.EDU] On Behalf Of Tomaz > Erjavec > Sent: 22 September 2003 15:54 > To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > Subject: Additions to the agenda for Sep. 23 conference call > > Hello, > > I'd add to the beginning a question (to be answered, I assume, at the > end) on the up-keep of the TEI projects page > http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Applications/index.html > > Namely, a project is making a TEI corpus / lexicon of the Resian > dialect (Han Steenwijk, Universita di Padova, http://www.resianica.it/) > and they have submitted - on my urging - a note on it a couple of > weeks ago to tei at oucs.ox.ac.uk but so far no changes. > > H.Steenwijk also notes: > > > No, I did not receive any response. As concerning bugs, I find it > strange that > > in the list ordered according to "corpus language" some projects are > on > > "English", others, however, on "english". > > Till tomorrow, > Tomaz > > Christian Wittern writes: > > > > Dear Council members, > > > > It just occured to me that I forgot to put a discussion of our report > to MM2003 on the agenda. Please add this to the end. Further > additions or changes will be discussed at the beginning of the call if > necessary. > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Sep 24 06:51:12 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 24 Sep 2003 11:51:12 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: No juice] Message-ID: <1064400672.6862.5.camel@janus> This just in from our man in Denmark. I must say I am ashamed of the British media -- not one of the newspapers or websites I habitually get info from carried this story, with one honorable exception: the Beeb. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3132332.stm (but I had to do a global search to find it) It gets a bit windy on the east coast of the US and we hear all about it for days on end. 4 million people in Scandinavia lose power and no-one even bothers to tell us. Sigh.

-----Forwarded Message----- > From: Matthew James Driscoll > To: 'lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk' > Subject: No juice > Date: 24 Sep 2003 09:47:46 +0200 > > Sorry I couldn't make the conference call yesterday, but we (4 million > people in eastern Denmark and southern Sweden) were without electricity for > most of the day. Anything happen I should know about? > > As the net's still acting up, I'll keep this short, although there are > several things I need to discuss with you. > > bye for now > Matthew > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Sep 25 10:46:08 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 15:46:08 +0100 Subject: Minutes from Tuesday Message-ID: <001d01c38373$c1a32c80$7e0f01a3@lou2> I have now posted brief minutes from Tuesday's conference call on the web site: http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm08.html Please check carefully and advise me of any corrections needed. (I think I must have been talking too much, since my notes are unusually skimpy) Since the meeting I've had brief communications from Laurent, Matthew, and Sebastian about their no-shows and what they would have said had they been able to. But no word from Chris Ruotolo yet. Chris, are you there? I also see we forgot formally to thank Christian for picking up the thankless task of chairing the council. But thanks all the same Chris (other one)! Lou From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri Sep 26 20:26:13 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:26:13 -0400 Subject: Minutes from Tuesday In-Reply-To: <001d01c38373$c1a32c80$7e0f01a3@lou2> Message-ID: <16244.55589.201947.261484@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > I have now posted brief minutes from Tuesday's conference call on > the web site: http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm08.html Please > check carefully and advise me of any corrections needed. (I think > I must have been talking too much, since my notes are unusually > skimpy) Despite the skimpy notes, looks like a nice job with excellent turn-around time. Kudos. * "Sarah Wells, the group's technical author": change 'author' to 'writer'. * "Keeyong Lee": I think he uses "Kiyong Lee" as the roman character representation, no? * Change "Rutolo" to "Ruotolo".

> Chris [Ruotolo], are you there? Chris is not a member of the Council, and I don't think she's on this list. From alex.bia at ua.es Sat Sep 27 07:06:29 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:06:29 +0200 Subject: Just an idea... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030926215151.00ae8d58@lou.herald.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030927124134.01d59c78@aitana.cpd.ua.es> >Have you tried the new emacs installation with nxml? It's amazing! No I haven't. Where can I find it for download? By the way, an idea came to my mind: Wouldn't it be nice if at the annual meeting there was a session to show new tools, tips and tricks? I'm not talking about companies showing products, but TEI users recommending and discussing their own experiences (with or without commercial products), and the best tips and tricks discussed in the TEI-L during the year. A "Tips and Tricks TEI User Forum"... If not this year, it could be planed for next year... What d'you think? All the best, Alex.-

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Sep 28 11:42:49 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (The Burnards) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:42:49 +0100 Subject: Just an idea... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030928143143.00add7f8@lou.herald.ox.ac.uk> The TEI emacs bundle at http://www,tei-c.org.uk/Software/tei-emacs has just been updated to include this. There are a couple of minor bugs to fix still, but if you want to try it out, it's there now... L At 22:07 28/09/2003 +0900, you wrote: >Alejandro, council members, > >Alejandro Bia writes: > > >>Have you tried the new emacs installation with nxml? It's amazing! > > > > No I haven't. Where can I find it for download? > >It is at >http://www.thaiopensource.com/download/ > >But you will need a working Emacs21 to use it. > > > > > By the way, an idea came to my mind: > > Wouldn't it be nice if at the annual meeting there was a session to show > > new tools, tips and tricks? I'm not talking about companies showing > > products, but TEI users recommending and discussing their own experiences > > (with or without commercial products), and the best tips and tricks > > discussed in the TEI-L during the year. A "Tips and Tricks TEI User > Forum"... > > > > If not this year, it could be planed for next year... > > What d'you think? > >If we handle this as a SIG it could still be put up for this year, >otherwise we might need some more planning. > >All the best, > >Christian > > >-- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Sep 28 15:23:38 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 28 Sep 2003 20:23:38 +0100 Subject: Just an idea... In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030928143143.00add7f8@lou.herald.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1064777018.11818.164.camel@spqr-dell.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Sun, 2003-09-28 at 16:42, The Burnards wrote: > The TEI emacs bundle at http://www,tei-c.org.uk/Software/tei-emacs has www.tei-c.org/Software/ > just been updated to include this. There are a couple of minor bugs to fix > still, but if you want to try it out, it's there now... and note that the old xml mode is still there, a M-x xml-mode away ebastian From alex.bia at ua.es Sun Sep 28 17:32:55 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:32:55 +0200 Subject: A request for the SIGs schedule... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030928232817.040ac008@aitana.cpd.ua.es> A humble request to the one that's going to make the schedule for Nancy's meeting: As SIGs run in parallel: please don't put the SIG on Multilingual TEI (Termbank) at the same time as the SIG on Digital Libraries. I'm very interested on both. Thanks, Alex.-

--------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Head of Research and Development Miguel de Cervantes Digital Library University of Alicante (Ed. Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Teaching: Department of Languages and Information Systems (DLSI) University of Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN, CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Tue Sep 30 18:21:25 2003 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:21:25 -0700 Subject: Minutes from Tuesday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have now posted brief minutes from Tuesday's conference call on > the web site: http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm08.html Please > check carefully and advise me of any corrections needed. (I think > I must have been talking too much, since my notes are unusually > skimpy) Merrilee also was unable to attend the meeting due to travel, also sent apologies. From Alois.Pichler at aksis.uib.no Wed Oct 1 08:05:27 2003 From: Alois.Pichler at aksis.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:05:27 +0200 Subject: Executive Director Tone Merete Bruvik back Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20031001140014.03433e08@pop3.uib.no> Dear members of the TEI-C Council Today Tone Merete Bruvik, Executive Director of the TEI-C, is back in office. I have been her deputy from October 2002 to September 2003. I have enjoyed working for the TEI-C and will continue to promote it, especially in the European context. Thank you very much for your cooperation and help.

Best wishes Alois

*************************************************** Alois Pichler Project Director, Wittgenstein Archives http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway, Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 Forskningsgruppe for tekstteknologi / Research Group for Text Technology Avdeling for kultur, spr?k og informasjonsteknologi (AKSIS) / Department of culture, language and information technology (AKSIS) Unifob AS Universitetet i Bergen / University of Bergen From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Oct 13 21:42:26 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:42:26 +0900 Subject: Reminder: Activity Reports Message-ID: Dear Council members, This is a reminder to all of you, who have not yet given me your activity reports, that I am expecting these by tomorrow evening (Oct. 15). For those who have not been present at the last conference call, please look at http://www.tei-c.org.uk/Council/tcm08.html, item 7. All the best, Christian

> Many thanks to workgroup heads, council members, and above all to Chris > for putting this together within such a short time scale. > > Preliminary draft is now on the website at > http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcr01.html (and .xml) > > Muffled protests and requests for rapid revisions will be accepted for > the next 36 hours. Thereafter, it will be linked to from the Members web > site. > > Lou > > > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Oct 23 20:38:54 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:38:54 +0900 Subject: Council report to members In-Reply-To: <008201c3997a$f4b37f90$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> Message-ID: "Susan Schreibman" writes: > a quick reply -- I sent Christian two training reports -- one from myself > and one from Julia -- I don't see them included -- Right! Shame on me, I completely forot about them! I will forward them to Lou right away. Sorry, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Oct 30 13:32:00 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:32:00 -0500 Subject: term of service of TEI council members Message-ID: <16289.22816.790713.942603@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Introduction ------------ On 23 Sep 03 at our conference call, the Council charged me with reading through the By-Laws and Board meeting minutes to resolve our uncertainty about when TEI Council members' terms expire. According to the minutes I agreed to do this by 01 Oct. Method ------ I spent a half an hour or so reading what I believe are the current Bylaws[1] and the minutes of the Fall 2002 Board of Directors meeting in Chicago[2]. Results ------- The Bylaws do not address this issue for council members at all. They do address it directly for Directors (i.e., members of the board of directors), but since Oct 2002 have been self-contradictory.[3] In the past (there have only been 2 elections for TEI council members in the history of the world), my recollection is that we have thought of the newly elected council members' terms as starting immediately. Discussion ---------- Logically, if an elected councilor's full term[4,5] started at the first members' meeting (held in Pisa) on 17 Nov 01, his or her term would terminate on either 17 Nov 03 or the day of the members' meeting election in 2003 (in this case 08 Nov 03). Since the council does not meet at the members' meeting, it is not such a major problem that we do not know in advance who will be council members by the end of the members' meeting. Some concerns follow. 1. Minor ambiguity of actual date a term ends. Probably pretty inconsequential, but annoying nonetheless. 2. Overlap with (what I believe to be) term of service of a Director. Not a big deal, either, but it makes it a bit more problematic for people to move from service in one capacity to another -- you either have to wear both hats for 2 months, or neither for 10. 3. Serving councilors whose term expires at a members' meeting may well be inspired at the meeting to take on a particular task or suggest to the council a particular path, or whatnot. Proposal -------- I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I think it would be better for the organizational health of the TEI if a councilor's term started on the 01 Jan following the election, lasting for two years (i.e., until the 31 Dec roughly 26 months after the election). Besides addressing the concerns above, this also gives incoming councilors the opportunity to read up on minutes and issues and query their outgoing colleagues before "taking the helm". I think it should be standard operating procedure that the councilors-elect be permitted to join council conference calls (at TEI expense), but not face-to-face meetings (at least not at TEI expense), without a vote. Probably should sign 'em up on the council list, too. One disadvantage with this proposal is that someone in the TEI administrative world (Officially a duty of the secretary, I believe; but in fact, handled by Lou as our pinch-webmaster, most likely :-) needs to remember to change the list of councilors on the website and in any other official documentation on the New Year. Since we have to do this for Directors already, I don't see this as a big deal. Suggested Course of Action --------- ------ -- ------ 1. Council should discuss my proposal and decide to endorse it or not immediately. 2. If council decides to endorse it, someone (Christian or I) should draft a quick request to the Board that they consider this problem, along with our recommended solution, at their meeting on Sun 09 Nov. Notes ----- [1] //TEI/web/Consortium/bylaws.xml#9, which is reflected on the website in HTML as part of the www.tei-c.org[.uk]/Consortium/ index page. [2] //TEI/web/Board/bm08.xml#3, which is reflected on the website in HTML as http://www.tei-c.org[.uk]/Board/bm08.html. [3] Contradiction contained in Article IV, section 3. I plan to draft a separate note to the Board about this after lunch. [4] Some councilors were elected to half terms at that meeting. [5] I'm not sure that "councilor" is the right term, but I'm getting tired of writing "member of the council". :-) From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Fri Oct 31 01:41:26 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:41:26 +0900 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: <16289.22816.790713.942603@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: Syd Bauman writes: > I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I think it would be > better for the organizational health of the TEI if a councilor's term > started on the 01 Jan following the election, lasting for two years > (i.e., until the 31 Dec roughly 26 months after the election). > Besides addressing the concerns above, this also gives incoming > councilors the opportunity to read up on minutes and issues and query > their outgoing colleagues before "taking the helm". I think it should > be standard operating procedure that the councilors-elect be > permitted to join council conference calls (at TEI expense), but not > face-to-face meetings (at least not at TEI expense), without a vote. > Probably should sign 'em up on the council list, too. I fully agree to this proposal, wich in fact aligns nicely with my memory of the constituing meeting of the TEI Council January 2002 in London, where my impression was that the terms had started with the beginning of the year. > Suggested Course of Action > --------- ------ -- ------ > 1. Council should discuss my proposal and decide to endorse it or not > immediately. > 2. If council decides to endorse it, someone (Christian or I) should > draft a quick request to the Board that they consider this > problem, along with our recommended solution, at their meeting on > Sun 09 Nov. I second this. If the other council members agree to this course of action, I would like to ask Syd to draft the request (for which most of the work is already done).

All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From pwillett at indiana.edu Fri Oct 31 08:26:43 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:26:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This makes a lot of sense to me, and would vote in favor of the proposal as stated. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > Syd Bauman writes: > > > I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I think it would be > > better for the organizational health of the TEI if a councilor's term > > started on the 01 Jan following the election, lasting for two years > > (i.e., until the 31 Dec roughly 26 months after the election). > > Besides addressing the concerns above, this also gives incoming > > councilors the opportunity to read up on minutes and issues and query > > their outgoing colleagues before "taking the helm". I think it should > > be standard operating procedure that the councilors-elect be > > permitted to join council conference calls (at TEI expense), but not > > face-to-face meetings (at least not at TEI expense), without a vote. > > Probably should sign 'em up on the council list, too. > > I fully agree to this proposal, wich in fact aligns nicely with my > memory of the constituing meeting of the TEI Council January 2002 in > London, where my impression was that the terms had started with the > beginning of the year. > > Suggested Course of Action > > --------- ------ -- ------ > > 1. Council should discuss my proposal and decide to endorse it or not > > immediately. > > 2. If council decides to endorse it, someone (Christian or I) should > > draft a quick request to the Board that they consider this > > problem, along with our recommended solution, at their meeting on > > Sun 09 Nov. > > I second this. If the other council members agree to this course of > action, I would like to ask Syd to draft the request (for which most > of the work is already done). > > > All the best, > > Christian > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From djbpitt+ at pitt.edu Fri Oct 31 09:20:42 2003 From: djbpitt+ at pitt.edu (David J Birnbaum) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:20:42 -0500 Subject: term of service of council members Message-ID: <2440153107.1067592042@birnbaum.slavic.pitt.edu> Dear Council, Aye. Cheers, David ________ Professor David J. Birnbaum Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1417 Cathedral of Learning University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 USA Voice: 1 412 624 5712 Fax: 1 412 624 9714 Email: djbpitt+ at pitt.edu URL: http://clover.slavic.pitt.edu/~djb/ From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Fri Oct 31 09:26:47 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:26:47 -0500 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is great, and makes a lot of sense. I'm in favor. -- David -- David G. Durand Director, Electronic Publishing Services 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Oct 31 09:57:11 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:57:11 +0100 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FA28657.30714.2C253@localhost> I also agree. Matthew From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Fri Oct 31 14:55:02 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:55:02 +0100 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: <3FA28657.30714.2C253@localhost> Message-ID: <16290.48662.309687.29394@gargle.gargle.HOWL> I agree, Tomaz From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Fri Oct 31 16:42:52 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:42:52 -0500 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011701c39ff8$bf10c940$baada5c2@MITHLAPTOP> sorry for taking so long to reply -- I'm on the road -- sounds like a terrific idea -- I also agree usan

> > On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > Syd Bauman writes: > > > > > I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I think it would be > > > better for the organizational health of the TEI if a councilor's term > > > started on the 01 Jan following the election, lasting for two years > > > (i.e., until the 31 Dec roughly 26 months after the election). > > > Besides addressing the concerns above, this also gives incoming > > > councilors the opportunity to read up on minutes and issues and query > > > their outgoing colleagues before "taking the helm". I think it should > > > be standard operating procedure that the councilors-elect be > > > permitted to join council conference calls (at TEI expense), but not > > > face-to-face meetings (at least not at TEI expense), without a vote. > > > Probably should sign 'em up on the council list, too. > > > > I fully agree to this proposal, wich in fact aligns nicely with my > > memory of the constituing meeting of the TEI Council January 2002 in > > London, where my impression was that the terms had started with the > > beginning of the year. > > > Suggested Course of Action > > > --------- ------ -- ------ > > > 1. Council should discuss my proposal and decide to endorse it or not > > > immediately. > > > 2. If council decides to endorse it, someone (Christian or I) should > > > draft a quick request to the Board that they consider this > > > problem, along with our recommended solution, at their meeting on > > > Sun 09 Nov. > > > > I second this. If the other council members agree to this course of > > action, I would like to ask Syd to draft the request (for which most > > of the work is already done). > > > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > From alex.bia at ua.es Mon Nov 3 15:05:15 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:05:15 +0100 Subject: term of service of TEI council members In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031103210252.03fb0dc8@aitana.cpd.ua.es> I also agree. Alejandro.- At 07:41 31/10/2003, you wrote: >Syd Bauman writes: > > > I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and say that I think it would be > > better for the organizational health of the TEI if a councilor's term > > started on the 01 Jan following the election, lasting for two years > > (i.e., until the 31 Dec roughly 26 months after the election). > > Besides addressing the concerns above, this also gives incoming > > councilors the opportunity to read up on minutes and issues and query > > their outgoing colleagues before "taking the helm". I think it should > > be standard operating procedure that the councilors-elect be > > permitted to join council conference calls (at TEI expense), but not > > face-to-face meetings (at least not at TEI expense), without a vote. > > Probably should sign 'em up on the council list, too. > >I fully agree to this proposal, wich in fact aligns nicely with my >memory of the constituing meeting of the TEI Council January 2002 in >London, where my impression was that the terms had started with the >beginning of the year. > > Suggested Course of Action > > --------- ------ -- ------ > > 1. Council should discuss my proposal and decide to endorse it or not > > immediately. > > 2. If council decides to endorse it, someone (Christian or I) should > > draft a quick request to the Board that they consider this > > problem, along with our recommended solution, at their meeting on > > Sun 09 Nov. > >I second this. If the other council members agree to this course of >action, I would like to ask Syd to draft the request (for which most >of the work is already done). > > >All the best, > >Christian > > >-- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 11 07:34:58 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 11 Nov 2003 12:34:58 +0000 Subject: Draft minutes from Joint TEI-ISO feaure structure activity Message-ID: <1068554098.10844.6.camel@janus> I have now posted a FIRST DRAFT of the minutes from the meeting of the Joint ISO/TEI Activity on Feature Structure Representation held in Nancy last week. PLEASE NOTE: This draft has not yet been checked for errors by the Chair or members of the group. It should not be disseminated further, and is liable to change without notice. For that reason, there is no link to this document from the index page at Activities/FS -- I will add one when the draft has been accepted by the members of the group. The draft is at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/FS/fsm01.html (and .xml) Corrections gratefully received -- errors hereby apologised for. Thanks to everyone for making it such a productive meeting! Lou From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Nov 19 20:33:42 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 10:33:42 +0900 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning Message-ID: Dear Council members, It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail alias is allowed for posting. As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the next host to live up to such a precedent. Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too ambitious, please speak up right now!). There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, 2004 or a week later on the 27th. I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. All the best, Christian Wittern

Christian Wittern wrote: > > Dear Council members, > > It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward > Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although > their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked > Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, > since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel > suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they > can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail > alias is allowed for posting. > > As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting > meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on > behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting > such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality > and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the > next host to live up to such a precedent. > > Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the > Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for > public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time > scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release > in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too > ambitious, please speak up right now!). > > There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for > this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to > have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting > in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we > have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 > GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, > 2004 or a week later on the 27th. > > I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports > at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of > items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. > > All the best, > > Christian Wittern > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN -- ============= Edward Vanhoutte Co-ordinator Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie - CTB (KANTL) Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies Reviews Editor, Literary and Linguistic Computing Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde Royal Academy of Dutch Language and Literature Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium tel: +32 9 265 93 51 / fax: +32 9 265 93 49 evanhoutte at kantl.be http://www.kantl.be/ctb/ http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ From mjd at hum.ku.dk Thu Nov 20 12:00:45 2003 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:00:45 +0100 Subject: Meeting in Gent In-Reply-To: <3FBCF1DE.AF79B17C@kantl.be> Message-ID: <3FBD014D.15441.20C1D08@localhost> I'm convinced. MJD From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Nov 20 12:05:08 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:05:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Either Jan 20th or 27th works for me. Let me know, and I'll set it up as usual. Thanks, Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > Dear Council members, > > It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward > Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although > their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked > Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, > since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel > suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they > can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail > alias is allowed for posting. > > As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting > meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on > behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting > such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality > and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the > next host to live up to such a precedent. > > Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the > Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for > public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time > scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release > in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too > ambitious, please speak up right now!). > > There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for > this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to > have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting > in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we > have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 > GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, > 2004 or a week later on the 27th. > > I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports > at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of > items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. > > All the best, > > Christian Wittern > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Nov 20 12:00:49 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:00:49 +0000 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: <3FBCF1DE.AF79B17C@kantl.be> Message-ID: <1069347649.10020.60.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> places which are a) nice, b) near me, c) have nice food and drink certainly get _my_ vote. hurrah for belgium. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Nov 20 12:08:42 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 20 Nov 2003 17:08:42 +0000 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: <1069347649.10020.60.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1069348122.19390.47.camel@janus> I agree, on all counts. l

On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 17:00, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > places which are > a) nice, b) near me, c) have nice food and drink > certainly get _my_ vote. > > hurrah for belgium. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > OUCS > > From nsmith at email.unc.edu Thu Nov 20 12:36:19 2003 From: nsmith at email.unc.edu (Natasha Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 12:36:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greetings: Thank you, Christian, for the introduction and kind welcoming. I can only say - I am pleased and honored... To be honest, January 27th would be better for me, as on the 20th I am planning to be in Moscow (I mean Russia, not Idaho), which doesn't exclude a possibility of participating in a conf call - they DO have phones!, but would be more convenient to me when I am back here. Needless to say, Edward's generous proposal sounds great and gets my vote. all the best, ns Natasha (Natalia) Smith Digitization Librarian Wilson Library, CB#3990 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 email: natalia_smith at unc.edu tel. (919) 962-9590 fax (919) 962-4452 http://docsouth.unc.edu/

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > Dear Council members, > > It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward > Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although > their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked > Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, > since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel > suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they > can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail > alias is allowed for posting. > > As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting > meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on > behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting > such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality > and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the > next host to live up to such a precedent. > > Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the > Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for > public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time > scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release > in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too > ambitious, please speak up right now!). > > There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for > this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to > have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting > in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we > have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 > GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, > 2004 or a week later on the 27th. > > I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports > at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of > items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. > > All the best, > > Christian Wittern > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Thu Nov 20 13:50:40 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 13:50:40 -0500 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01a801c3af97$31c34870$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> the 27th works much better for me -- as you might see soon, we are giving an XML/XSLT workshop the week of the 19th January usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "C. Perry Willett" To: "TEICouncil" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:05 PM Subject: Re: Welcome to new members, planning

> Either Jan 20th or 27th works for me. Let me know, and I'll set it > up as usual. Thanks, > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > Dear Council members, > > > > It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward > > Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although > > their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked > > Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, > > since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel > > suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they > > can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail > > alias is allowed for posting. > > > > As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting > > meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on > > behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting > > such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality > > and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the > > next host to live up to such a precedent. > > > > Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the > > Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for > > public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time > > scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release > > in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too > > ambitious, please speak up right now!). > > > > There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for > > this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to > > have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting > > in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we > > have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 > > GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, > > 2004 or a week later on the 27th. > > > > I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports > > at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of > > items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian Wittern > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > From alex.bia at ua.es Thu Nov 20 14:35:24 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:35:24 +0100 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: <3FBCF1DE.AF79B17C@kantl.be> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031120201859.03bf5638@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear council members: I adhere to the welcome and... congratulations to Edward and Natasha! At 17:54 20/11/2003, Edward wrote: >Convinced? No. Overwhelmed to be more precise. ;-) This description sounds much more than simply convincing. It would be difficult to argue against it. It's simply overwhelming. Woooow! Anyone with ideas of other places?... better forget it. I have a hunch that we'll meet in Belgium. Dunno why. Concerning the conference call: either the 20th or the 27th. Both are fine for me. Best wishes, Alejandro.-

--------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Sat Nov 22 02:50:13 2003 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 08:50:13 +0100 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <813A2446-1CC0-11D8-9C46-000393DA1D20@loria.fr> Dear all, I have another meeting on 20th January, and would thus favour the 27th. I have nothing against going to Gent ;-) Laurent Le jeudi, 20 nov 2003, ? 18:36 Europe/Paris, Natasha Smith a ?crit : > Greetings: > > Thank you, Christian, for the introduction and kind welcoming. I can > only > say - I am pleased and honored... > > To be honest, January 27th would be better for me, as on the 20th I am > planning to be in Moscow (I mean Russia, not Idaho), which doesn't > exclude > a possibility of participating in a conf call - they DO have phones!, > but > would be more convenient to me when I am back here. > > Needless to say, Edward's generous proposal sounds great and gets my > vote. > > all the best, ns > > Natasha (Natalia) Smith > Digitization Librarian > Wilson Library, CB#3990 > University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 > email: natalia_smith at unc.edu > tel. (919) 962-9590 > fax (919) 962-4452 > http://docsouth.unc.edu/ > > > On Thu, 20 Nov 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > >> >> Dear Council members, >> >> It is my pleasure to welcome the newly elected members Edward >> Vanhoutte and Natasha Smith to the Council and this list. Although >> their term will not start until the beginning of next year, I asked >> Daniel Pitti (who add maintains this list) to add them right away, >> since we will need to start doing the planning for next year. Daniel >> suggested the new members send a message to this list to verify they >> can post; as with many listservs nowaday, only the subscribed mail >> alias is allowed for posting. >> >> As many of you will now, we had a very productive and in fact exciting >> meeting in Nancy. I would like to take this opportunity to thank on >> behalf of the Council Laurent Romary and his team in Nancy for hosting >> such a splendid meeting. I for one thoroughly enjoyed the hospitality >> and thoughtful arrangements. It will be quite a challenge for the >> next host to live up to such a precedent. >> >> Those who have been in Nancy will also be aware of the fact, that the >> Editors announced a pre-release version of P5 to be available for >> public review by March 2004. This puts us on quite an aggressive time >> scale for next year, but I think we could and should aim at a release >> in time for the next members meeting. (If you think this is too >> ambitious, please speak up right now!). >> >> There are of course still many open ends that needs to be fixed for >> this. To provide for discussion and work on this, I would like to >> have a conference call in January and March and a face to face meeting >> in May (location to be determined, suggestions welcome). So far, we >> have been successful with scheduling the calls on Tuesdays at 1300 >> GMT. I would therefore like to see if we can have it on January 20th, >> 2004 or a week later on the 27th. >> >> I would like to ask the workgroups to present their progress reports >> at that call. It would be helpful if you could also include a list of >> items that needs to be resolved for P5 and a work schedule for that. >> >> All the best, >> >> Christian Wittern >> >> >> -- >> >> Christian Wittern >> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University >> 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN >> > > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Nov 24 08:03:51 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:03:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <3FBCF1DE.AF79B17C@kantl.be> Message-ID: I don't remember ever seeing a statement posted on TEI-L explaining some of the decisions already made about P5, as well as the process and schedule for recommending changes. I looked through the archive, but don't find one--has there been an announcement to the general readership of TEI-L? Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Nov 24 15:54:52 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 20:54:52 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FC2701C.4060607@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Good question -- to which I suspect the answer is no! If we had a report from Nancy written, that might contain some discussion of the paper Sebastian, Syd, and I presented there. Probably a very good idea to get one done... On the other hand, we have been banging on about the basic changes for some time now. L

C. Perry Willett wrote: > I don't remember ever seeing a statement posted on TEI-L > explaining some of the decisions already made about P5, as > well as the process and schedule for recommending changes. I > looked through the archive, but don't find one--has there > been an announcement to the general readership of TEI-L? > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Nov 25 07:41:46 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 07:41:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <3FC2701C.4060607@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm not sure how much banging on has been posted to the list. The only mention I find is Syd's post of a few months ago, "Uncle Terminology wants you," on the terminological tagset. I think a brief note that describes the thinking so far on P5, the process for proposing changes, and the schedule for completion, would be of interest to the general readership. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003, Lou Burnard wrote: > Good question -- to which I suspect the answer is no! > > If we had a report from Nancy written, that might contain some > discussion of the paper Sebastian, Syd, and I presented there. Probably > a very good idea to get one done... > > On the other hand, we have been banging on about the basic changes for > some time now. > > L > > > C. Perry Willett wrote: > > I don't remember ever seeing a statement posted on TEI-L > > explaining some of the decisions already made about P5, as > > well as the process and schedule for recommending changes. I > > looked through the archive, but don't find one--has there > > been an announcement to the general readership of TEI-L? > > > > Perry Willett > > Main Library > > Indiana University > > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 07:53:20 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:53:20 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069764800.13978.43.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 12:41, C. Perry Willett wrote: > I think a brief note that describes the thinking > so far on P5, the process for proposing changes, and the > schedule for completion, would be of interest to the general > readership. I shall be writing (part of) this today -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 08:30:25 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:30:25 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069767025.13977.50.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I append a possible FAQ about P5. This forms part of a larger document which I am writing. Can anyone spot any flaws in the following? ******************************************************************* In what follows, items tagged "***" have been implemented and approved by the Council; items tagged "**" have been implemented but not yet approved; items tagged "*" are incomplete. 1. What has changed in P5 documents? *** the root element is not *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/ ** some attribute values are rationalized eg "Y|N" is now "true|false" *** you can validate using DTD, RelaxNG schema or W3C Schema 2. What has changed in P5 stylesheets? *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/. All XSLT 1.0 stylesheets have to be changed 3. What has changed in the Guidelines? *** the old embedded DTD fragments are replaced (by default) with RelaxNG compact notation 4. Which modules are new or changed? * the writing systems chapter has been completely revised; WSDs are gone, in favour of Unicode througout * the chapter on tag set descriptions has been completely revised * the sections on linking, and multimedia, have been completely revised * a chapter on manuscript descriptions has been added 5. What has changed in TEI extensions? ** all the internal class names have changed (eg a.global is attributes.class.global) * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes ** the module file names have changed ** you should probably rewrite the extension in RelaxNG schema 6. What are the important internal changes? ** the namimg of classes, elements etc has been revised for readability ** all element names have been made unique across the TEI * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes 7. What is the timetable? December 2004: public call for small changes January 2004: complete revisions of internal language and seek council approval February/March 2004: incorporate new/revised chapters April 2004: end of public call for small changes May 2004: seek approval by council of new/revised chapters June-September 2004: public alpha review October 2004: public beta test December 2004: release of P5 -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si Tue Nov 25 08:45:38 2003 From: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:45:38 +0100 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069767025.13977.50.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <16323.23810.242125.70475@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Sebastian Rahtz writes: > Can anyone spot any flaws in the following? > > 7. What is the timetable? > > December 2004: public call for small changes Spotted: 2003 > January 2004: complete revisions of internal language and seek > council approval > February/March 2004: incorporate new/revised chapters > April 2004: end of public call for small changes > May 2004: seek approval by council of new/revised chapters > June-September 2004: public alpha review > October 2004: public beta test > December 2004: release of P5 This is somewhat off topic, but it occurs to me that a part of P5 (so, at release) should be instructions on how to migrate from P4 - that is the first thing most people adopting P5 could want to do. Best, Tomaz

> -- > Sebastian Rahtz > OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 08:44:48 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:44:48 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <16323.23810.242125.70475@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <1069767888.13999.52.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > > December 2004: public call for small changes > > Spotted: 2003 whoops!

> This is somewhat off topic, but it occurs to me that a part of P5 (so, > at release) should be instructions on how to migrate from P4 - that is > the first thing most people adopting P5 could want to do. yes, indeed. an instance converter is trivial. an extension converter is very hard... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 08:58:19 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 25 Nov 2003 13:58:19 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069767025.13977.50.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1069768699.31319.27.camel@janus> On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 13:30, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I append a possible FAQ about P5. This forms part of a larger document > which I am writing. > > Can anyone spot any flaws in the following? > It should be phrased differently: not "this has changed" but "it is proposed to introduce the following changes". Even those changes which the Council has already accepted in principle cannot be said to have changed till we have a release version of P5.

> ******************************************************************* > > In what follows, items tagged "***" have been implemented and > approved by the Council; items tagged "**" have been implemented > but not yet approved; items tagged "*" are incomplete.

Might be clearer if we had a status column: "endorsed by Council", "experimentally implemented", "awaiting input from workgroup" > > 1. What has changed in P5 documents? > > *** the root element is not > *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/ > ** some attribute values are rationalized > eg "Y|N" is now "true|false" > *** you can validate using DTD, RelaxNG schema or W3C Schema > Mention the mirror-attribute-to-child-element modification? > 2. What has changed in P5 stylesheets? > > *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/. All > XSLT 1.0 stylesheets have to be changed > > 3. What has changed in the Guidelines? > *** the old embedded DTD fragments are replaced (by default) with > RelaxNG compact notation Terminology has changed. e.g. "module" rather than "tagset" We are proposing to abolish the distinction between mixed/general. We are proposing to abolish the ability to have identically-named elements with different properties in different modules.

> > 4. Which modules are new or changed? >

> * the writing systems chapter has been completely revised; WSDs are > gone, in favour of Unicode througout The WSD has been abolished, and the chapter on Character Encoding revised accordingly. A mechanism for documenting use of non-Unicode characters is proposed. See further the documents produced by the CE workgroup at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/CE/

> * the chapter on tag set descriptions has been completely revised to form the basis of a new module for technical writing > * the sections on linking, and multimedia, have been completely > revised awaiting input from the SO workgroup; see further documents at etc etc > * a chapter on manuscript descriptions has been added awaiting input from the MS workgroup; see further documents at etc etc > * the chapter on Feature Structure representation has been revised in conjunctyion with thre ISO activity; see further the documents at etc etc

Add a reference to the corrigible errors document (EDw77) which lists all minor changes proposed or actually implemented, or should do when Syd has finished with it

> 5. What has changed in TEI extensions? > > ** all the internal class names have changed (eg a.global is > attributes.class.global) > * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes > ** the module file names have changed > ** you should probably rewrite the extension in RelaxNG schema > > 6. What are the important internal changes? > > ** the namimg of classes, elements etc has been revised for > readability > ** all element names have been made unique across the TEI > * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes > > 7. What is the timetable? > > December 2004: public call for small changes > January 2004: complete revisions of internal language and seek > council approval > February/March 2004: incorporate new/revised chapters > April 2004: end of public call for small changes > May 2004: seek approval by council of new/revised chapters > June-September 2004: public alpha review > October 2004: public beta test > December 2004: release of P5 > -- Ah the endless possibilities of porcine aviation...

> Sebastian Rahtz > OUCS > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Nov 25 09:01:43 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 09:01:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069767025.13977.50.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Did we decide that attribute values will no longer contain CDATA? Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I append a possible FAQ about P5. This forms part of a larger document > which I am writing. > > Can anyone spot any flaws in the following? > > ******************************************************************* > > In what follows, items tagged "***" have been implemented and > approved by the Council; items tagged "**" have been implemented > but not yet approved; items tagged "*" are incomplete. > > 1. What has changed in P5 documents? > > *** the root element is not > *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/ > ** some attribute values are rationalized > eg "Y|N" is now "true|false" > *** you can validate using DTD, RelaxNG schema or W3C Schema > > 2. What has changed in P5 stylesheets? > > *** all elements are in the namespace http://www.tei-c.org/P5/. All > XSLT 1.0 stylesheets have to be changed > > 3. What has changed in the Guidelines? > *** the old embedded DTD fragments are replaced (by default) with > RelaxNG compact notation > > 4. Which modules are new or changed? > > * the writing systems chapter has been completely revised; WSDs are > gone, in favour of Unicode througout > * the chapter on tag set descriptions has been completely revised > * the sections on linking, and multimedia, have been completely > revised > * a chapter on manuscript descriptions has been added > > 5. What has changed in TEI extensions? > > ** all the internal class names have changed (eg a.global is > attributes.class.global) > * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes > ** the module file names have changed > ** you should probably rewrite the extension in RelaxNG schema > > 6. What are the important internal changes? > > ** the namimg of classes, elements etc has been revised for > readability > ** all element names have been made unique across the TEI > * (hopefully) all elements are members of classes > > 7. What is the timetable? > > December 2004: public call for small changes > January 2004: complete revisions of internal language and seek > council approval > February/March 2004: incorporate new/revised chapters > April 2004: end of public call for small changes > May 2004: seek approval by council of new/revised chapters > June-September 2004: public alpha review > October 2004: public beta test > December 2004: release of P5 > -- > Sebastian Rahtz > OUCS > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 08:57:17 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 13:57:17 +0000 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069768637.13999.57.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> people may be amused to see how small a p4 to P5 instance converter is, in XSLT: -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 09:08:02 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:08:02 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069768699.31319.27.camel@janus> Message-ID: <1069769282.13978.60.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > It should be phrased differently: not "this has changed" but "it is > proposed to introduce the following changes". Even those changes which > the Council has already accepted in principle cannot be said to have > changed till we have a release version of P5. i did that deliberately. the FAQ is written from the perspective of a future historian. anyway, i know you'll rephrase the whole thing anyway.... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Nov 25 09:10:08 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 14:10:08 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069769408.13978.63.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 14:01, C. Perry Willett wrote: > Did we decide that attribute values will no longer contain CDATA? thats waiting on Christian and the editors to propose how to implement it, I think? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Nov 26 02:25:14 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 16:25:14 +0900 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069769408.13978.63.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > On Tue, 2003-11-25 at 14:01, C. Perry Willett wrote: > >> Did we decide that attribute values will no longer contain CDATA? > > thats waiting on Christian and the editors to propose > how to implement it, I think? I was missing that from your timetable, where I think it belongs. This clearly is a META issue, if there ever was one. All the best, Christian

All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Nov 26 03:59:56 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:59:56 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069837196.21073.0.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > I'd love to see some modeling of this around the MM2004. I think, > we could either have this as the target for the release date or as the > last public review before we give it the go. I have amended the date list as follows: June-July 2004: public alpha review (possibility of feature change) July-October 2004: public beta review (feature frozen) November 2004: release to TEI members December 2004: full public release of P5 -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Nov 26 04:02:35 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:02:35 +0000 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1069837354.21083.4.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > >> Did we decide that attribute values will no longer contain CDATA? > > > > thats waiting on Christian and the editors to propose > > how to implement it, I think? > > I was missing that from your timetable, where I think it belongs. > This clearly is a META issue, if there ever was one. Actually, I don't agree. Checking over all the attributes to see where attributes need replacing by sub-elements, or constraining into a list of tokens, is not a "meta" activity; it is a standard editors' job, arising from the character group recommendations. I'll make them a little homework list right now :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Dec 1 21:04:31 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:04:31 -0500 Subject: Welcome to new members, planning In-Reply-To: <813A2446-1CC0-11D8-9C46-000393DA1D20@loria.fr> Message-ID: <16331.62255.530664.860367@cushing.cis.brown.edu> 27 Jan should be fine for conference call for me, too. While the idea of a trip to Gent is *very* intriguing, and I hate to be thought of as a bean-counter, I feel compelled to remind the group that the TEI-C is currently very underfunded. Until we get more members[1] we should really consider cost when choosing a meeting place. The members of the Council will, as of 2004-01-01, be (I think): [Syd Bauman] Alejandro Bia David Birnbaum [Lou Burnard] Mathew Driscoll David Durand Julia Flanders Sebastian Rahtz Laurent Romany Susan Schreibman Natasha Smith Edward Vanhoutte Perry Willett Christian Wittern That's 7 from North America, 5 from Europe, and the Chair from so far away it doesn't matter. All of the North Americans are from the east coast of the USA (although Indianans might not like to hear that :-) and, if my European geography is up to the task, all of the Europeans are reasonably close to Belgium (closer, e.g., than Natasha is to me). Given, then, that we're probably talking 7 cross-the-pond fares plus 4 relatively inexpensive intra-European fares vs. 5 cross-the- pond fares plus up to 7 possibly more expensive intra-USA fares (not to mention it is probably easier & cheaper for CW to get to Europe than east coast USA), I'm inclined to say that the costs are likely to be close enough that Gent is a go. So, at least for the moment, I'm in favor of Gent.

Notes ----- [1] And remember, membership recruitment is everyone's business! If you have any leads or know of potential member institutions, send mail to info at tei-c.org (or have someone from the institution send the mail). From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Dec 2 00:56:28 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:56:28 +0900 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <16331.62255.530664.860367@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: Syd Bauman writes: > 27 Jan should be fine for conference call for me, too. So it seems this is the date most convenient to most members. I'd therefore like to ask Perry to set the call up for us on that date at the usual time (1300 GMT). > > While the idea of a trip to Gent is *very* intriguing, and I hate to > be thought of as a bean-counter, I feel compelled to remind the group > that the TEI-C is currently very underfunded. Until we get more > members[1] we should really consider cost when choosing a meeting > place. > Indeed. But I am glad that you arrive at the same conclusion as most other members. :-) And while the TEI-C is of course prepared to cover the travel costs for attending Council members, it welcomes cases where the funding for this can be provided from other sources due to a clever combination of itinaries. The next task then would be to think about a date. As I said, I would like to see the meeting happen in the second half of May. If we follow the pattern from last year (which was quite successful, me thinks), we could start on a Thursday afternoon at a time that allows Europeans to travel that same day, e.g. ca. 1400. We would then plan for another full day on Friday and might leave the Saturday morning as an option in case we do not finish our agenda (which might actually be the case this time). In the second half of May, that would leave us with 20-22 or 27-29. With this said, I would like to ask you to show preferences for one of these dates or, if both turn out to be impossible for you to suggest an alternative. It would be good if we could fix the date in the next two or three weeks. All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From evanhoutte at kantl.be Tue Dec 2 02:36:47 2003 From: evanhoutte at kantl.be (Edward Vanhoutte) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:36:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3271.213.224.57.13.1070350607.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.be> > In the second half of > May, that would leave us with 20-22 or 27-29. Both dates are fine to me. I'm looking forward to welcoming you all in Gent! Edward

-- Edward Vanhoutte Co-ordinator Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie (CTB) Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies Reviews Editor, Literary & Linguistic Computing Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Dec 2 14:46:03 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:46:03 -0500 Subject: P5 announcement on TEI-L? In-Reply-To: <1069837354.21083.4.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <16332.60411.230212.889084@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > Actually, I don't agree. Checking over all the attributes to see > where attributes need replacing by sub-elements, or constraining > into a list of tokens, is not a "meta" activity; it is a standard > editors' job, arising from the character group recommendations. > I'll make them a little homework list right now :-} Correct. It is already on our list. From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Dec 2 14:51:12 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:51:12 -0500 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: <1069768637.13999.57.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <16332.60720.491875.388850@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > people may be amused to see how small a p4 to P5 instance > converter is, in XSLT: Well, so far, yes. But wait 'til you need to move all those CDATA attributes into child elements ... :-) Also we haven't come to a definitive conclusion about a version= attribute on (and thus it's not here in your stylesheet). I'm inclined to say it should be required. Still not sure exactly what form it should take. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Dec 2 16:11:59 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:11:59 +0000 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: <16332.60720.491875.388850@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: <3FCD001F.1090806@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Syd Bauman wrote: >>people may be amused to see how small a p4 to P5 instance >>converter is, in XSLT: >> >> > >Well, so far, yes. But wait 'til you need to move all those CDATA >attributes into child elements ... :-) > > fair point. I hope it'll be easy :-} >Also we haven't come to a definitive conclusion about a version= >attribute on (and thus it's not here in your stylesheet). I'm >inclined to say it should be required. Still not sure exactly what >form it should take. > > > yes, I admit I had not considered that until Stuart raised it. I now imagine how does that strike others? it would be nice to get that on the agenda for January, and pin it down ebastian From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Dec 3 02:12:42 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:12:42 +0900 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: <3FCD001F.1090806@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: >> > yes, I admit I had not considered that until Stuart raised it. I now imagine > > > > how does that strike others? it would be nice to get that on the agenda > for January, > and pin it down I'll make a note of it, but since I am sure you will have more issues coming out of META, we will devote some time to try to resolve them. As always, it would be very helpful to have the suggested alternatives, together with some surrounding prose, well before the call. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 3 11:59:43 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 03 Dec 2003 16:59:43 +0000 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1070470783.15874.230.camel@janus> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 05:56, Christian Wittern wrote: > The next task then would be to think about a date. As > I said, I would like to see the meeting happen in the second half of > May. If we follow the pattern from last year (which was quite > successful, me thinks), we could start on a Thursday afternoon at a > time that allows Europeans to travel that same day, e.g. ca. 1400. We > would then plan for another full day on Friday and might leave the > Saturday morning as an option in case we do not finish our agenda > (which might actually be the case this time). In the second half of > May, that would leave us with 20-22 or 27-29.

27-29 may be problematic for me, Matthew, and Tomaz: assuming that the funding comes through, we'll be at a TEI workshop in Beograd 20-22 is also problematic, though only for me, as it clashes with the ICAME conference in Verona, which I would like to attend. And then there is LREC in Lisbon, which runs 24-30th May, and which at least some of us have submitted TEI-related papers to! Would putting it off to the first week of June (5-7, if you want to stick with the Thursday-Saturday model) be problematic for everyone? Otherwise, we could bring it forward to 13-15 May, I suppose! Lou

> > With this said, I would like to ask you to show preferences for one of > these dates or, if both turn out to be impossible for you to suggest > an alternative. It would be good if we could fix the date in the next > two or three weeks. > > All the best, > > Christian > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Wed Dec 3 12:31:10 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:31:10 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070470783.15874.230.camel@janus> Message-ID: <007101c3b9c3$3dc75220$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before the ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those of us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I will be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by the 7th. Earlier in May might make it easier for others if they can't do both the meeting and conference in the same trip. usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Burnard" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Conference call, Meeting

> On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 05:56, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > The next task then would be to think about a date. As > > I said, I would like to see the meeting happen in the second half of > > May. If we follow the pattern from last year (which was quite > > successful, me thinks), we could start on a Thursday afternoon at a > > time that allows Europeans to travel that same day, e.g. ca. 1400. We > > would then plan for another full day on Friday and might leave the > > Saturday morning as an option in case we do not finish our agenda > > (which might actually be the case this time). In the second half of > > May, that would leave us with 20-22 or 27-29. > > > 27-29 may be problematic for me, Matthew, and Tomaz: assuming that the > funding comes through, we'll be at a TEI workshop in Beograd > > 20-22 is also problematic, though only for me, as it clashes with the > ICAME conference in Verona, which I would like to attend. > > And then there is LREC in Lisbon, which runs 24-30th May, and which at > least some of us have submitted TEI-related papers to! > > Would putting it off to the first week of June (5-7, if you want to > stick with the Thursday-Saturday model) be problematic for everyone? > Otherwise, we could bring it forward to 13-15 May, I suppose! > > Lou > > > > > > > > With this said, I would like to ask you to show preferences for one of > > these dates or, if both turn out to be impossible for you to suggest > > an alternative. It would be good if we could fix the date in the next > > two or three weeks. > > > > All the best, > > > > Christian > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Dec 4 03:34:32 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:34:32 +0900 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <007101c3b9c3$3dc75220$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> Message-ID: OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards?

"Susan Schreibman" writes: > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before the > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those of > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I will > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by the > 7th. > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- do you expect to teach even before that?

Confused in Cyoto, Christian

On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: > > OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. > > ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of > July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June > is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by > Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that > would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all > bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two > trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make > the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates > (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) > > So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are > now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse > pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for > everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? > > > > "Susan Schreibman" writes: > > > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before the > > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those of > > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I will > > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by the > > 7th. > > > > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- > do you expect to teach even before that? > > > Confused in Cyoto, > > Christian > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Dec 4 12:42:08 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (pwillett at indiana.edu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:42:08 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070555933.17120.201.camel@janus> Message-ID: <1070559728.3fcf71f02fd01@webmail.iu.edu> At the risk of muddying those muddy waters further, wouldn't it make more sense, if we are to combine the two meetings, to meeting somewhere in Goteborg? Meeting in Brussels (as eager as I am to do so for a number of reasons) would just add an extra leg or round trip onto the cost. Perry

Quoting Lou Burnard : > I have no strong objection to making the council meeting adjacent to the > allc/ach conference and see the logic of doing so, though it probably > means the schedule for getting P5 published will slip further. > > My diary has the Goteborg meeting finishing wed 16th. Amazingly enough, > there are directly daily flights between Goteborg and Brussells, > operated by Sabena and by Malmo Aviation. Journey time 100 mins, price > about 70 GBP; Brussells is about 30 minutes by train from Gent. > > So, I suggest that we stick with a Thu/Fri/Sat pattern, and go for 17/18 > June. > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. > > > > ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of > > July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June > > is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by > > Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that > > would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all > > bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two > > trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make > > the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates > > (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) > > > > So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are > > now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse > > pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for > > everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? > > > > > > > > "Susan Schreibman" writes: > > > > > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before > the > > > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those > of > > > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I > will > > > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by > the > > > 7th. > > > > > > > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- > > do you expect to teach even before that? > > > > > > Confused in Cyoto, > > > > Christian > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Dec 4 12:51:02 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (pwillett at indiana.edu) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:51:02 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070559728.3fcf71f02fd01@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <1070560262.3fcf7406d6777@webmail.iu.edu> Oops, I meant Gent. I'm also eager to visit Brussels! Perry

Quoting pwillett at indiana.edu: > At the risk of muddying those muddy waters further, wouldn't it make more > sense, if we are to combine the two meetings, to meeting somewhere in > Goteborg? Meeting in Brussels (as eager as I am to do so for a number of > reasons) would just add an extra leg or round trip onto the cost. > > Perry > > > Quoting Lou Burnard : > > > I have no strong objection to making the council meeting adjacent to the > > allc/ach conference and see the logic of doing so, though it probably > > means the schedule for getting P5 published will slip further. > > > > My diary has the Goteborg meeting finishing wed 16th. Amazingly enough, > > there are directly daily flights between Goteborg and Brussells, > > operated by Sabena and by Malmo Aviation. Journey time 100 mins, price > > about 70 GBP; Brussells is about 30 minutes by train from Gent. > > > > So, I suggest that we stick with a Thu/Fri/Sat pattern, and go for 17/18 > > June. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > > OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. > > > > > > ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of > > > July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June > > > is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by > > > Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that > > > would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all > > > bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two > > > trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make > > > the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates > > > (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) > > > > > > So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are > > > now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse > > > pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for > > > everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Susan Schreibman" writes: > > > > > > > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week > before > > the > > > > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for > those > > of > > > > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I > > will > > > > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by > > the > > > > 7th. > > > > > > > > > > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- > > > do you expect to teach even before that? > > > > > > > > > Confused in Cyoto, > > > > > > Christian > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Christian Wittern > > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Dec 4 13:28:27 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:28:27 +0000 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070560262.3fcf7406d6777@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <3FCF7CCB.3020509@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> I suspect there is a lot more choice and availability for flights between US and Brussells than between there and Goteborg. Also, I think we might all enjoy the prospect of a change of location after a week in Goteborg... not that I have anything against the melancholy swedes of course.

pwillett at indiana.edu wrote: >Oops, I meant Gent. I'm also eager to visit Brussels! > >Perry > > >Quoting pwillett at indiana.edu: > > > >>At the risk of muddying those muddy waters further, wouldn't it make more >>sense, if we are to combine the two meetings, to meeting somewhere in >>Goteborg? Meeting in Brussels (as eager as I am to do so for a number of >>reasons) would just add an extra leg or round trip onto the cost. >> >>Perry >> >> >>Quoting Lou Burnard : >> >> >> >>>I have no strong objection to making the council meeting adjacent to the >>>allc/ach conference and see the logic of doing so, though it probably >>>means the schedule for getting P5 published will slip further. >>> >>>My diary has the Goteborg meeting finishing wed 16th. Amazingly enough, >>>there are directly daily flights between Goteborg and Brussells, >>>operated by Sabena and by Malmo Aviation. Journey time 100 mins, price >>>about 70 GBP; Brussells is about 30 minutes by train from Gent. >>> >>>So, I suggest that we stick with a Thu/Fri/Sat pattern, and go for 17/18 >>>June. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: >>> >>> >>>>OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. >>>> >>>>ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of >>>>July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June >>>>is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by >>>>Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that >>>>would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all >>>>bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two >>>>trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make >>>>the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates >>>>(assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) >>>> >>>>So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are >>>>now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse >>>>pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for >>>>everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>"Susan Schreibman" writes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week >>>>> >>>>> >>before >> >> >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for >>>>> >>>>> >>those >> >> >>>of >>> >>> >>>>>us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think >>>>> >>>>> >I > > >>>will >>> >>> >>>>>be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden >>>>> >>>>> >by > > >>>the >>> >>> >>>>>7th. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- >>>>do you expect to teach even before that? >>>> >>>> >>>>Confused in Cyoto, >>>> >>>>Christian >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>> >>>> Christian Wittern >>>> Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University >>>> 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Thu Dec 4 13:25:50 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:25:50 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070559728.3fcf71f02fd01@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: <010301c3ba94$0ba4ed30$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> to muddy the waters further, if we tack the meeting onto the end of the ACH/ALLC, I'd also prefer staying in Goteborg. I was planning on staying in Sweden after the conference. Taking the meeting onto ACH would also make it very long for some of us -- I'll be doing workshops from the 8-11th, then conference to the 16th, & then a two day meeting. I might be a bit burned out by then. Perhaps some others might feel the same if they have pre-conferences meetings to attend. In light of what Lou wrote regarding P5 work, would it make sense to revisit having the Council meeting in mid-May? usan

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Conference call, Meeting

> At the risk of muddying those muddy waters further, wouldn't it make more > sense, if we are to combine the two meetings, to meeting somewhere in > Goteborg? Meeting in Brussels (as eager as I am to do so for a number of > reasons) would just add an extra leg or round trip onto the cost. > > Perry > > > Quoting Lou Burnard : > > > I have no strong objection to making the council meeting adjacent to the > > allc/ach conference and see the logic of doing so, though it probably > > means the schedule for getting P5 published will slip further. > > > > My diary has the Goteborg meeting finishing wed 16th. Amazingly enough, > > there are directly daily flights between Goteborg and Brussells, > > operated by Sabena and by Malmo Aviation. Journey time 100 mins, price > > about 70 GBP; Brussells is about 30 minutes by train from Gent. > > > > So, I suggest that we stick with a Thu/Fri/Sat pattern, and go for 17/18 > > June. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > > OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. > > > > > > ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of > > > July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June > > > is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by > > > Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that > > > would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all > > > bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two > > > trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make > > > the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates > > > (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) > > > > > > So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are > > > now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse > > > pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for > > > everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Susan Schreibman" writes: > > > > > > > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before > > the > > > > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those > > of > > > > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I > > will > > > > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by > > the > > > > 7th. > > > > > > > > > > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- > > > do you expect to teach even before that? > > > > > > > > > Confused in Cyoto, > > > > > > Christian > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Christian Wittern > > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From nsmith at email.unc.edu Thu Dec 4 16:42:02 2003 From: nsmith at email.unc.edu (Natasha Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:42:02 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <1070559728.3fcf71f02fd01@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: I hope this is the toughest decision we ever need to make in our lives - Gent or Goteborg, May or June... More seriously, I decided to untangle several facts that became tied together, so I would see a bit clearer in those - already mentioned several times - muddy waters: 1. re ACH/ALLC conf schedule. Counting the workshops it will take place from June 9 (Wed) through 16 (Wed) 2. if we want to separate the conference from the TEI Council meeting, they probably should be at least 5 (if not more) weeks apart. It relieves the pressure on both work schedule (I mean at our work places) and on - sorry for that - the body when flying such a distance (I guess I AM getting older...) 3. re "bean counting" started by Syd and supported by our respected Chair. We (read the TEI-C) might very well benefit money-wise if we tie those two events together instead of separating them. How? Maybe some of our institutions will be able to cover _portion_ of the cross-the-pond traveling (I foolishly hope mine will pitch in), which will cut the cost of flying all the American members to the meeting. 4. the work on P5 is certainly should be considered first place, but some of us mentioned conferences, presentations, workshops that should be attended and given right before the ACH/ALLC conference, so I cannot see that those very busy weeks would really push the publication further. Thus, my suggestion would be: 1. to tie two events together (consider financial and scheduling reasons) 2. consider both options - before and after the ACH, i.e. June 17 (even 16?)-19 OR June 6-8 (unless there are unchangeable reasons and tradition, that I do not know of, of having meetings only on Thur-Sat) 3. I hate to say it (I've never been in Gent and would love to go there), but it probably makes easier to have our meeting closer to the conf. place. Maybe next time? best, ns Natasha (Natalia) Smith Digitization Librarian Wilson Library, CB#3990 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 email: natalia_smith at unc.edu tel. (919) 962-9590 fax (919) 962-4452 http://docsouth.unc.edu/

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 pwillett at indiana.edu wrote: > At the risk of muddying those muddy waters further, wouldn't it make more > sense, if we are to combine the two meetings, to meeting somewhere in > Goteborg? Meeting in Brussels (as eager as I am to do so for a number of > reasons) would just add an extra leg or round trip onto the cost. > > Perry > > > Quoting Lou Burnard : > > > I have no strong objection to making the council meeting adjacent to the > > allc/ach conference and see the logic of doing so, though it probably > > means the schedule for getting P5 published will slip further. > > > > My diary has the Goteborg meeting finishing wed 16th. Amazingly enough, > > there are directly daily flights between Goteborg and Brussells, > > operated by Sabena and by Malmo Aviation. Journey time 100 mins, price > > about 70 GBP; Brussells is about 30 minutes by train from Gent. > > > > So, I suggest that we stick with a Thu/Fri/Sat pattern, and go for 17/18 > > June. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 08:34, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > > > > OOPS, it looks like I mixed up the dates. > > > > > > ACH/ALLC is scheduled for June 11-16, while I assumed it to be end of > > > July (from my experience in Glasgow and Tuebingen, I guess). Mid June > > > is of course quite different, and I agree now to concerns voiced by > > > Council members that it would be better to consider a timing that > > > would allow for one trip over the pond instead of two. We are all > > > bean-counters in some ways, and I certainly do not want to make two > > > trips within the space of two weeks. I propose therefore that we make > > > the council meeting adjoint to ACH/ALLC at least for the dates > > > (assuming that we still want to rather meet in Gent) > > > > > > So, we need to rethink the whole scheduling I guess. Alternatives are > > > now pre- or post conference meeting. Because of the diverse > > > pre-conference activities, I wonder if it would be easier for > > > everybody to have the Council meeting afterwards? > > > > > > > > > > > > "Susan Schreibman" writes: > > > > > > > The first thursday in June is actually the 3rd -- which is a week before > > the > > > > ACH/ALLC in Goteborg. I don't know if that would be too close for those > > of > > > > us travelling to both. It would probably work out for me as I think I > > will > > > > be doing workshops beforehand and if so, would need to be in Sweden by > > the > > > > 7th. > > > > > > > > > > The website says there are pre-Conference workshops on 9th and 10th -- > > > do you expect to teach even before that? > > > > > > > > > Confused in Cyoto, > > > > > > Christian > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Christian Wittern > > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Dec 4 16:57:08 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:57:08 +0000 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FCFADB4.6090605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> for my 2 pennyworth, I have no intention of going to ALLC/ACH in Sweden, and I'd much rather travel to Gent if I have to travel anywhere. Sweden is nice, but its expensive and the food isn't half so nice Sebastian From evanhoutte at kantl.be Fri Dec 5 09:32:09 2003 From: evanhoutte at kantl.be (Edward Vanhoutte) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 15:32:09 +0100 (CET) Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <3FCFADB4.6090605@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <2283.213.224.57.252.1070634729.squirrel@webmail.xs4all.be> Following up on the discussion about time and place of the TEI Council meeting I'd like to add that any date in April/May/June/July would be appropriate for a meeting at the Royal Academy in Gent. I also want to emphasize that the Royal Academy and the Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies consider it an honour to receive such an international body of highly esteemed HC people and that the planning of the meeting in Gent would/could mean a lot for the furhter establishment and recognition of Humanities Computing and the use of TEI in Flanders and the Low Countries. The Royal Academy has, since 1997 been at the forefront of electronic scholarly editing and the use of TEI in the Low Countries (and Europe) and is funding the only university credit course in humanities computing (electronic texts) in Belgium. With the reorganization of the university curriculum in Europe (a.k.a. the Bologna treaty or the BaMa structure) non-traditional courses and practices such as HC are the first ones to disappear. A recent list of 500+ scholarly journals by which the publication practice and research quality of humanities departments at Flemish universities will be assessed as from next year onwards did not mention a single HC joural such as LLC, CHUM, Human IT etc. The meeting at Gent could thus, apart from being a good meeting for the Council, be of great importance both for the recognition and support of the initiatives of the Royal Academy, and for the attention to and support of Humanities Computing in scholarly research and teaching at Flemish universities. Best, Edward -- Edward Vanhoutte Co-ordinator Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie (CTB) Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies Reviews Editor, Literary & Linguistic Computing Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Dec 8 18:56:10 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 23:56:10 +0000 Subject: Terminology chapter in P5 Message-ID: <3FD50F9A.8090606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> As work progresses on P5, it becomes increasingly clear that the current terminology chapter is a serious obstacle to getting the job done effectively and on time. Since most of the technical problems it exhibits are intimately concerned with aspects of its recommendations which are known to be outdated, and which we already announced at P4 that we would no longer be supporting (I'm thinking in particular of its support for both "nested" and "flat" terminological entries), it's now proposed to drop the chapter in its present form from P5. That is not however to say that we want to drop any reference to terminological data from the TEI Guidelines: terminology is well within the scope of what the TEI should be addressing and we will certainly need at the very least some placeholder text concerning it in P5. Ideally, a new chapter! But as yet no-one is actioned to produce one, and the editors have more than enough on their plates already. I discussed this problem briefly with Laurent Romary, and reproduce our exchange on the subject below. It would be much appreciated if Council members could give this some thought as a matter of urgency. I hope they will also appreciate that the decision to drop the chapter in its current form has not been taken lightly. When this matter was last raised, over a year ago, the editors were asked to find out whether anyone was using it in its current form, and duly canvased the TEI List. From memory, one or two respondents expressed interest in the area covered by the chapter, but no-one claimed to be using it in its present shape and form, which is (as mentioned above and in the prefatory note to the chapter in P4) now superceded by an established ISO standard.

Lou

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Terminology Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 14:46:55 +0100 From: Laurent Romary To: Lou Burnard CC: Syd Bauman Dear Lou, A tough issue. I have to think and consult with the "old" Terminology colleagues (Alan, Sue-Ellen, Gerhard etc.). I will come back to you in a few days... Cheers Laurent Le lundi, 1 d?c 2003, ? 14:42 Europe/Paris, Lou Burnard a ?crit : > Dear Laurent > > I am thinking about what we can realistically hope to do about the TEI > terminology chapter in P5. > > I think the choices are: > > 1. Leave it as it is > > 2. Remove it > > 3. Replace it with a brief paragraph which points to ISO 12200, and > explains how to embed XML documents from another namespace in the TEI > > 4. Replace it with a new chapter which presents in TEI-P5 style a > generally useful subset of 12200, or a tagset compatible with same. > > Option 1 is a non-starter, I think. Options 3 and 4 both require effort > from someone, and I don't know who is likely to be able to provide it. > Which leaves Option 2, which I also feel decidedly uncomfortable with > (though less so than with option 1) > > Do you have any suggestions? Would you or one of your colleagues maybe > like to do the work -- I would be happy to translate it from French if > that would make it easier. > > Is this something for the Romary-Ide-Erjavec SIG to take on? > > best wishes > > Lou > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Dec 8 19:28:29 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:28:29 +0000 Subject: Terminology chapter in P5 In-Reply-To: <3FD50F9A.8090606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FD5172D.4070508@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> I feel agnostic about the chapter in general. But I note that in its embarassing duplication of element names and patterns it is no longer an acceptable citizen of the TEI world. I suspect that what is good in it can be reforged, like the Sword that was Broken, by someone willing to put in 2 or 3 days work. Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Dec 8 19:33:21 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 00:33:21 +0000 Subject: another question to ponder Message-ID: <3FD51851.2090303@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Who amongst you understands, and/or uses, mixed bases? Who would be saddened by their silent demise in the new slimmed-down P5 TEI? Sebastian From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Dec 9 04:04:31 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 09:04:31 +0000 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <3FD51851.2090303@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FD5901F.2040606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Who amongst you understands, and/or uses, mixed bases? > > Who would be saddened by their silent demise in the new slimmed-down P5 > TEI? > > Sebastian > > Just to phrase this question a little more sharply: who understands the difference between the mixed base and the general base? and does anyone believe that they work as advertised in P4? Maybe we should also ask TEI-L readers about this one? From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Dec 9 21:03:35 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:03:35 +0900 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <3FD5901F.2040606@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: Lou Burnard writes: > Just to phrase this question a little more sharply: who understands the > difference between the mixed base and the general base? and does anyone > believe that they work as advertised in P4? Personally I am not using them, and have never tried to do. > Maybe we should also ask TEI-L readers about this one? That is something I would encourage. It seems to be quite productive to discuss such matters there. BTW, what happened to TEI-TECH? Would it be useful to revive that as a general list for technical discussions as opposed to TEI-L. I am a bit worried that some readers of TEI-L might be scared away. All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 10 05:10:47 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:10:47 +0000 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FD6F127.7020809@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Christian Wittern wrote: > BTW, what happened to TEI-TECH? Would it be useful to revive that as > a general list for technical discussions as opposed to TEI-L. I am a > bit worried that some readers of TEI-L might be scared away. > I would be strongly opposed to this suggestion. On the other hand, if someone wants to set up a TEI-fluffy list, I don't mind! (and then there are all the SIGs...) Lou > All the best, > > Christian > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 10 05:28:29 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:28:29 +0000 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <3FD6F127.7020809@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FD6F54D.40501@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Lou Burnard wrote: >> BTW, what happened to TEI-TECH? Would it be useful to revive that as >> a general list for technical discussions as opposed to TEI-L. I am a >> bit worried that some readers of TEI-L might be scared away. >> > > I would be strongly opposed to this suggestion. On the other hand, if > someone wants to set up a TEI-fluffy list, I don't mind! (and then there > are all the SIGs...) I am afraid I agree with Christian. If TEI-L stays in "geek cutting edge acronym-loving enthusiast" mode, it'll never rise above niche level. We don't want the TEI to become the new TeX, do we? Sorry to bang on about this, but if the TEI Consortium (as opposed to the TEI) is to have a future, it has to be much more proactive about its image, its communications, its services etc. A sine qua non for that is a single home for mailing lists, with centralized subscription management, common searchable archives, and a rational set of lists for different aspects of the TEI. Yes, I know that its easy to say "the TEI should do this or that" in a vague way without offering resources or help. I'd love to offer to work on it myself; but sadly my waking hours are all dedicated towards P5 at the moment :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Dec 10 19:46:52 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:46:52 +0900 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <3FD6F54D.40501@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > Sorry to bang on about this, but if the TEI Consortium (as opposed to > the TEI) is to have a future, it has to be much more proactive about its > image, its communications, its services etc. A sine qua non for that is > a single home for mailing lists, with centralized subscription > management, common searchable archives, and a rational set of lists for > different aspects of the TEI.

In Nancy we shortly touched on this and I remember that Lou promised to look into how to implement improvement in list offerings. I also see this as a vital point for the way TEI is perceived from the outside (or even from the edges). Management of the lists is a mess and done purely on an ad-hoc basis, with at least three different providers involved. But given that the list form the most central piece of communication infrastructure the TEI has, I see the need to streamline this and put it in a common namespace, namely tei-c.org. What do we need to have an operating listserv server (like, say GNU mailman) taking care of lists at tei-c.org? Who do we need to ask to get an estimate on this? I will put this on the agenda for the next call, but would like to have a proposal we can discuss by then. I assume also that this is rather an issue the board should take up, but I am sure the Board will consider a statement from the Council if we have one. All the best, Chistian Wittern

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Thu Dec 11 09:48:09 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:48:09 -0500 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <012701c3bff5$cb2024c0$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> I agree totally! Sometimes there is just so much going on the TEI list, that I can't get to it. I'd also love to be able to delete items, and know I can get back to them. Humanist has a fabulous archive interface. If we could have something like that for the TEI, and an easy way of finding special interest lists for newcomers, that would be terrific. usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Wittern" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:46 PM Subject: Re: another question to ponder

> Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > Sorry to bang on about this, but if the TEI Consortium (as opposed to > > the TEI) is to have a future, it has to be much more proactive about its > > image, its communications, its services etc. A sine qua non for that is > > a single home for mailing lists, with centralized subscription > > management, common searchable archives, and a rational set of lists for > > different aspects of the TEI. > > > In Nancy we shortly touched on this and I remember that Lou promised > to look into how to implement improvement in list offerings. > > I also see this as a vital point for the way TEI is perceived from the > outside (or even from the edges). Management of the lists is a mess > and done purely on an ad-hoc basis, with at least three different > providers involved. But given that the list form the most central > piece of communication infrastructure the TEI has, I see the need to > streamline this and put it in a common namespace, namely tei-c.org. > What do we need to have an operating listserv server (like, say GNU > mailman) taking care of lists at tei-c.org? Who do we need to ask to > get an estimate on this? I will put this on the agenda for the next > call, but would like to have a proposal we can discuss by then. I > assume also that this is rather an issue the board should take up, but > I am sure the Board will consider a statement from the Council if we > have one. > > All the best, > > Chistian Wittern > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > From Julia_Flanders at brown.edu Thu Dec 11 11:50:05 2003 From: Julia_Flanders at brown.edu (Julia Flanders) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:50:05 -0500 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <012701c3bff5$cb2024c0$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> Message-ID: TEI-L has an good searchable online archive at http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/tei-l.html. I know the issue of list consolidation and functionality is currently being discussed by the board as well, so if people have desiderata, this is a good time to post/discuss them. Best, Julia >I agree totally! Sometimes there is just so much going on the TEI list, that >I can't get to it. I'd also love to be able to delete items, and know I can >get back to them. Humanist has a fabulous archive interface. If we could >have something like that for the TEI, and an easy way of finding special >interest lists for newcomers, that would be terrific. > >susan > From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Dec 11 15:20:50 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:20:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: <012701c3bff5$cb2024c0$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> Message-ID: I would just point out that we had a TEI-TECH list, but it was eventually withered away. Not sure why--whether there weren't enough subscribers to make it viable, or that it was difficult to define the difference between the two lists well enough. If I'm remembering correctly, posts to TEI-TECH were generally also cross-posted to TEI-L, so it only doubled the volume without solving the problem. Perry

On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Susan Schreibman wrote: > I agree totally! Sometimes there is just so much going on the TEI list, that > I can't get to it. I'd also love to be able to delete items, and know I can > get back to them. Humanist has a fabulous archive interface. If we could > have something like that for the TEI, and an easy way of finding special > interest lists for newcomers, that would be terrific. > > susan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christian Wittern" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: another question to ponder > > > > Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > > > > Sorry to bang on about this, but if the TEI Consortium (as opposed to > > > the TEI) is to have a future, it has to be much more proactive about its > > > image, its communications, its services etc. A sine qua non for that is > > > a single home for mailing lists, with centralized subscription > > > management, common searchable archives, and a rational set of lists for > > > different aspects of the TEI. > > > > > > In Nancy we shortly touched on this and I remember that Lou promised > > to look into how to implement improvement in list offerings. > > > > I also see this as a vital point for the way TEI is perceived from the > > outside (or even from the edges). Management of the lists is a mess > > and done purely on an ad-hoc basis, with at least three different > > providers involved. But given that the list form the most central > > piece of communication infrastructure the TEI has, I see the need to > > streamline this and put it in a common namespace, namely tei-c.org. > > What do we need to have an operating listserv server (like, say GNU > > mailman) taking care of lists at tei-c.org? Who do we need to ask to > > get an estimate on this? I will put this on the agenda for the next > > call, but would like to have a proposal we can discuss by then. I > > assume also that this is rather an issue the board should take up, but > > I am sure the Board will consider a statement from the Council if we > > have one. > > > > All the best, > > > > Chistian Wittern > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Dec 11 18:02:48 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:02:48 +0000 Subject: another question to ponder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FD8F798.5040009@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> C. Perry Willett wrote: >I would just point out that we had a TEI-TECH list, but it was eventually >withered away. Not sure why > because there was no marketing or explanation of it? Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Dec 15 06:38:38 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:38:38 +0000 Subject: RELAX NG is now an International Standard Message-ID: <3FDD9D3E.5080403@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> not sure if this is a death knell or not, but if anyone questions why P5 uses Relax NG at its core, here is a good answer: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [relaxng-user] RELAX NG is now an International Standard Date: 15 Dec 2003 18:38:08 +0700 From: James Clark To: xml-dev at lists.xml.org, relaxng-user at relaxng.org I have just been informed that RELAX NG was published by ISO as an International Standard on 1st December 2003. The full title is: ISO/IEC 19757-2:2003 Information technology -- Document Schema Definition Language (DSDL) -- Part 2: Regular-grammar-based validation -- RELAX NG Its ISO Catalogue entry is: http://www.iso.org/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=37605 The text of the published standard is unfortunately not freely available. However, the FDIS text remains available from the SC34 Chairman's site: http://www.y12.doe.gov/sgml/sc34/document/0362_files/relaxng-is.pdf The only differences I have found between the FDIS text and the published standard are that the Foreword is slightly different and the cover page, headers and footers have been changed in accordance with its change in status. Even the pagination appears to be identical. James

-- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Dec 16 21:42:58 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:42:58 +0900 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There do not seem to be new suggestions, so we will need to approach a decision. Natasha Smith writes: > > 1. to tie two events together (consider financial and scheduling reasons) > > 2. consider both options - before and after the ACH, i.e. June 17 (even > 16?)-19 OR June 6-8 (unless there are unchangeable reasons and tradition, > that I do not know of, of having meetings only on Thur-Sat) > > 3. I hate to say it (I've never been in Gent and would love to go there), > but it probably makes easier to have our meeting closer to the conf. > place. Maybe next time?

To lay it out a slightly bit more, let's see if we can decide between the following options and see if we find a date/location that fits everybodys schedule and most wishes: Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg

Option 2 and 3 assume that most attendees will also be attending ALLC. If this is not the case, we could (and should!) move the meeting maybe one day away and still go to Gent. I for one would not want to miss the opportunity to visit there again. So please do state for the above a) if you could make the date b) if you are attending ALLC c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. It is a tough decision, I know, but we need to make a decision and I would not want to put it off too long. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Dec 16 23:30:20 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 23:30:20 -0500 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: <3FCD001F.1090806@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <16351.56284.624182.596965@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > I now imagine > > how does that strike others? I'd still like to know if it makes sense to use a URN instead of a URL, and if not, why not. The version number is too imprecise. Although we prefer to avoid doing it, we do make real changes between major releases. I'm in favor of something along the lines of "P4:2002-05". From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 17 10:55:15 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:55:15 +0000 Subject: P4 to P5 In-Reply-To: <16351.56284.624182.596965@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: <3FE07C63.3020004@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Syd Bauman wrote: >>I now imagine >> >>how does that strike others? > I'd still like to know if it makes sense to use a URN instead of a > URL, and if not, why not. let me be the first to come out and admit I don't really understand what a URN, as opposed to a URL, is....... > The version number is too imprecise. Although we prefer to avoid > doing it, we do make real changes between major releases. I'm in > favor of something along the lines of "P4:2002-05". I am in favour of simple numbering. its what most people do. This will be major release 5.0, the revision will be 5.1, etc. why complicate it with date notations? numeric versions have the BIG BIG advantage that they can be read by software: ..... ebastian -- Sebastian Rahtz Information Manager Oxford University Computing Services 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 17 18:28:27 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:28:27 +0000 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FE0E69B.9070907@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> >a) if you could make the date > >b) if you are attending ALLC > >c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > > I would prefer to meet in May in Gent, and I can make that date. I do intend to go to the ALLC meeting in Sweden. Sebastian From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 17 18:29:45 2003 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:29:45 +0000 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <3FE0E69B.9070907@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3FE0E6E9.2000209@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > I would prefer to meet in May in Gent, and I can make that date. I do > intend to go to the ALLC meeting in Sweden.

I am also a klutz. I meant to say that I do NOT intend to go to ALLC! ebastian From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Wed Dec 17 23:26:55 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 23:26:55 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005c01c3c51f$2bd5dd40$c7170880@susandelllapt> 1) May is good for me in Gent -- at this point any date would work 2) Also 7-8 would work in Goeteborg 3) 17-18 June won't work anywhere --except Dublin where I intend to celebrate Bloomsday on the 16th! 4) I will be at the ALLC/ACH usan From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Dec 18 07:41:13 2003 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:41:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I could meet in Gent (or Genf!) May 13-15, or Goeteborg either of the two dates. I didn't plan to attend ALLC/ACH this year, but it's okay to meet there if more convenient for a large group of members. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) > Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg > Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > > > a) if you could make the date > b) if you are attending ALLC > c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > From nsmith at email.unc.edu Thu Dec 18 09:09:15 2003 From: nsmith at email.unc.edu (Natasha Smith) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:09:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think I already expressed my thoughts on the matter, but more to the Christian's questions: 1. I will be in Sweden 2. June 7-8 would work slightly better than June 17-18 3. If the majority votes for Gent, I would suggest even earlier dates - maybe May 6-8? or 4/29-5/1? All the best, ns Natasha (Natalia) Smith Digitization Librarian Wilson Library, CB#3990 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 email: natalia_smith at unc.edu tel. (919) 962-9590 fax (919) 962-4452 http://docsouth.unc.edu/

> On Wed, 17 Dec 2003, Christian Wittern wrote: > > > Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) > > Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg > > Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > > > > > > a) if you could make the date > > b) if you are attending ALLC > > c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > > > > From edward.vanhoutte at kantl.be Thu Dec 18 09:24:35 2003 From: edward.vanhoutte at kantl.be (Edward Vanhoutte) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:24:35 +0100 Subject: Betr.:: Re: Conference call, Meeting Message-ID: <200312181608.hBIG8fUZ031066@smtp2.hostbasket.com> > Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) May in Gent is fine. b) if you are attending ALLC > Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg > Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg I am attenden ALLC, but meeting before or after ALLC is problematic for me. Because of budget reasons I had to book my ticket for Gothenburg last week and do not have extra days on both sides. > c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > Yes, not surprisingly Edward -- Edward Vanhoutte Co-ordinator Centrum voor Teksteditie en Bronnenstudie (CTB) Centre for Scholarly Editing and Document Studies Reviews Editor, Literary & Linguistic Computing Koninklijke Academie voor Nederlandse Taal- en Letterkunde Koningstraat 18 / b-9000 Gent / Belgium http://www.kantl.be/ctb/vanhoutte/ From alex.bia at ua.es Thu Dec 18 12:16:51 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:16:51 +0100 Subject: TEI Council Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031218180440.0391f260@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear all, Option 1 is fine for me (although I have a class the 13th that I will have to cancel). Option 2 is also fine, but I think it is too early before the conference. Option 3 is also fine, and in my case better than option 2. a) I could make the date, although I don't like to cancel my teaching duties. b) I do plan to attend the ALLC c) It would be nice to do it in Gent... but this is just a point in favor, not a definite reason. Best wishes, Alejandro.- >Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) >Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg >Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > >So please do state for the above > >a) if you could make the date >b) if you are attending ALLC >c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Trabajo: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Docencia: Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es --------------------------------------------------------- From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Dec 18 18:20:42 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:20:42 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <16354.13898.319481.822686@cushing.cis.brown.edu> > Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) > Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg > Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > So please do state for the above > a) if you could make the date > b) if you are attending ALLC > c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. a) Yes, I think so, for all 3 options. b) Yes, I plan to attend ALLC. c) If meeting in June I have a mild preference for Gent; however ... ... I much prefer option 1, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that my wife says two shorter trips would be easier on her than one longer one. Furthermore it gives those of us who will be at ALLC a chance to informally chat face-to-face about what we've accomplished since the actual council meeting. I realize it won't be quite enough time for Natasha to get her beauty rest, but nonetheless ... :-) From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Dec 18 19:23:46 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 19:23:46 -0500 Subject: GFDL for TEI Guidelines Message-ID: <16354.17682.340145.91632@cushing.cis.brown.edu> As you may recall, I sent a query to the FSF about how we might adapt the GFDL to our circumstances, in particular to meet our desire to permit any and all to modify their own copies of the Guidelines so long as the result isn't advertised to be "TEI conformant". David had recommended that we do this by making chapter 28 "Conformance" an invariant section. The problem is, the GFDL has strict rules for what does and does not qualify as an invariant section, and I suspected that chapter 28 did not qualify. Thus the query to FSF. The FSF recently responded to my query confirming my suspicion that we cannot simply make chapter 28 invariant. However, he (David Turner, GPL Compliance Engineer) did have a suggested way to do what we want (the text preceded by ">" is part of my original query): | > * If not, what sort of alterations to the conformance chapter would | > be necessary for it to qualify for invariant status? | | Here's my idea: You have two concepts: | | 1. X, Y, and Z are the technical and legal aspects of conformance | with this standard; | | 2. The text of the conformance requirements as published by the TEIC | describes the only official TEIC conformance requirements. If this | text is modified, it doesn't describe anything having to do with | TEIC. | | The first is technical; the second is administrative. You could make | the second section invariant, while leaving the first as an ordinary | section. This would allow people who create standards based on the | TEIC standard to also use the TEIC conformance requirement text as | the basis for their text. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what this means myself. :-)

He also adds: | Further, you could create some sort of symbol or seal which can be | used only on TEIC-conformant products, and explain (by reference to | the standards version published by TEIC) the requirements for use | of this seal. From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Fri Dec 19 11:02:54 2003 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500 Subject: GFDL for TEI Guidelines In-Reply-To: <16354.17682.340145.91632@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: >The FSF recently responded to my query confirming my suspicion that >we cannot simply make chapter 28 invariant. However, he (David Turner, >GPL Compliance Engineer) did have a suggested way to do what we want >(the text preceded by ">" is part of my original query): > >| > * If not, what sort of alterations to the conformance chapter would >| > be necessary for it to qualify for invariant status? >| >| Here's my idea: You have two concepts: >| >| 1. X, Y, and Z are the technical and legal aspects of conformance >| with this standard; >| >| 2. The text of the conformance requirements as published by the TEIC >| describes the only official TEIC conformance requirements. If this >| text is modified, it doesn't describe anything having to do with >| TEIC. >| >| The first is technical; the second is administrative. You could make >| the second section invariant, while leaving the first as an ordinary >| section. This would allow people who create standards based on the >| TEIC standard to also use the TEIC conformance requirement text as >| the basis for their text. > >I'm still trying to figure out exactly what this means myself. :-) I think they are concerned that the technical description of how conformance works should be open to re-use and modification if other projects want to use our definitions of "conformance". However, we can make the "administrative" point that the term "TEI conformant" refers only to the original definition -- and the prose saying that this is so can be made invariant. >He also adds: > >| Further, you could create some sort of symbol or seal which can be >| used only on TEIC-conformant products, and explain (by reference to >| the standards version published by TEIC) the requirements for use >| of this seal. This is a strategy that we could use to raise awareness of the issue and definition. -- David -- David G. Durand Director, Electronic Publishing Services 111R Chestnut St. Providence, RI 02903 USA T: +1 401-331-2014 x111 T: +1 401-935-5317 Mobile E: david.durand at ingenta.com From Julia_Flanders at brown.edu Fri Dec 19 11:03:22 2003 From: Julia_Flanders at brown.edu (Julia Flanders) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:03:22 -0500 Subject: Conference call, Meeting In-Reply-To: <16354.13898.319481.822686@cushing.cis.brown.edu> Message-ID: >> Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) >> Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg >> Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > >> So please do state for the above >> a) if you could make the date >> b) if you are attending ALLC >> c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. For all three options, I believe at this moment that I can make the date, probably. I will be attending ALLC. I would prefer to meet in Gent in May, rather than in concert with ALLC. This is partly because I would like to do some TEI training at the beginning or end of ALLC, and a Council meeting would make this = difficult. But in addition, I have another conference to attend shortly after ALLC, and a third week-long event at another time in June which has not been set, but which I know I will have to attend. So meeting in May would mean that I could be sure of not having schedule conflicts. Best, Julia From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Dec 22 04:09:19 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:09:19 +0900 Subject: Face to face meeting Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, From alex.bia at ua.es Mon Dec 22 09:56:04 2003 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 15:56:04 +0100 Subject: Best wishes from Alicante In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031222155300.03930380@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear Council members: My best wishes to all in this holiday season!! Alejandro.-

--------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Head of Research and Development Miguel de Cervantes Digital Library University of Alicante (Ed. Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ Teaching: Department of Languages and Information Systems (DLSI) University of Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ abia at dlsi.ua.es Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN, CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Dec 30 02:44:47 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 16:44:47 +0900 Subject: Thank you and good bye to outgoing Council members Message-ID: Dear colleagues, As the year approaches its end, all of Japan is busy clearing out shops and poaches, washing cars and houses, wiping Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and testing the temple gongs to make sure everything is ready for the New Year. All of Japan? No, there is the occasional foreigner, still not used to these customs, hacking away on its keyboard to send out some last email messages before the network cables and switches will also be shut down for cleaning (or so I assume). With the end of this year, the terms on the Council of Merrilee Proffitt and Tomaz Erjavec will be fulfilled. I would like to take this opportunity to thank both of you for your time and devotion (even with telephone conferences at 5AM and the like) to the TEI Consortium, its members and the council. I am sure we will be able continue to count on your support and expertise as a member of the TEI community. I hope this message finds all of you in good spirits and I wish you have a good beginning of the New Year 2004, whatever it might hold for you and the TEI. All the best, Christian Wittern

> >> Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) >> Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg >> Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg >> >> So please do state for the above >> >> a) if you could make the date >> b) if you are attending ALLC >> c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS > e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es > > Trabajo: > Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica > Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes > Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A > Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 > http://cervantesvirtual.com/ > http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ > > Docencia: > Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) > Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A > http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ > abia at dlsi.ua.es > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Tue Dec 30 15:13:00 2003 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:13:00 -0500 Subject: TEI Council Meeting In-Reply-To: <3FF1C5CA.4090609@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <008101c3cf11$52b96020$37ec690c@MITHLAPTOP> I've proposed two sessions -- a poster and paper -- both of which involve TEI-based projects. At the TEI conference Christine and I spoke about her putting in a poster session on the Migration Working Group's work -- but I haven't followed up to see if she did. usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lou Burnard" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:36 PM Subject: Re: TEI Council Meeting

> Option 1 is fine for me, but the other options could be made to work too. > > I am undecided about Goteborg. Has anyone proposed a formal TEI session > there? > > I would prefer to meet in Gent. > > Lou > > > > > >> Option 1: Meeting in Genf, around May 13-15 (or even earlier as needed) > >> Option 2: June 7-8 in Goeteborg > >> Option 3: June 17-18 in Goeteborg > >> > >> So please do state for the above > >> > >> a) if you could make the date > >> b) if you are attending ALLC > >> c) if you would prefer to meet in Gent. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS > > e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es > > > > Trabajo: > > Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica > > Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes > > Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) > > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A > > Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 > > http://cervantesvirtual.com/ > > http://cervantesvirtual.com/research/articles/ > > > > Docencia: > > Departamento de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos (DLSI) > > Universidad de Alicante (Polit?cnica 4) > > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, ESPA?A > > http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ > > abia at dlsi.ua.es > > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Dec 30 15:50:25 2003 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2003 15:50:25 -0500 Subject: TEI Council Meeting In-Reply-To: <008101c3cf11$52b96020$37ec690c@MITHLAPTOP> Message-ID: <16369.58641.392315.354090@cushing.cis.brown.edu> I've proposed 1 paper on TEI-based subject. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Dec 31 00:09:28 2003 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:09:28 +0900 Subject: TEI Council Meeting In-Reply-To: <3FF1C5CA.4090609@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Lou, Have you been out of networked reach? We have settled on May 13-15 in Gent, which I think was one of the dates you originally proposed. All the best and a Happy New Year, Christian Lou Burnard writes: > Option 1 is fine for me, but the other options could be made to work too. > > I am undecided about Goteborg. Has anyone proposed a formal TEI session > there? > > I would prefer to meet in Gent. > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Dec 31 04:24:55 2003 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:24:55 +0000 Subject: TEI Council Meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3FF295E7.9090801@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> Dear Chris I returned from Mauritius yesterday morning and only finished going through the email backlog last night. But I am now up to date, and can thank you for your kind seasonal greetings, and wise decision! To tell the truth, Mauritius is not completely off the map as far as network connexion goes -- in fact the supermarket down the road from where I was staying had an excellent internet cafe where I could have spent many hours deleting spam (at a rate of 40 rupees -- 1.2 euro-- for 30 minutes). But somehow, it always seemed more attractive to walk the extra 20 metres to the beach and go dunk myself in the Indian ocean instead. Ah well, back to work. Here's wishing us all a happy and successful 2004! Lou Christian Wittern wrote: > Dear Lou, > > Have you been out of networked reach? We have settled on May 13-15 in > Gent, which I think was one of the dates you originally proposed. > > All the best and a Happy New Year, > > Christian > > Lou Burnard writes: > > >>Option 1 is fine for me, but the other options could be made to work too. >> >>I am undecided about Goteborg. Has anyone proposed a formal TEI session >>there? >> >>I would prefer to meet in Gent. >> > >