From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:05:08 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:05:08 -0500 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106120431.01d58bd0@pop3.norton.antivirus> A few reminders, concerning the upcoming TEI Council Meeting: Attendees: The following thirteen people have said they expect to attend this meeting: Syd Bauman, editor Lou Burnard, editor Tone Merete Bruvik, executive director Matthew Driscoll David Durand Fotis Jannidis (?) Merrilee Proffitt Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative Geoff Rockwell Laurent Romary (arriving late) John Unsworth, Chair Perry Willett Christian Wittern The following two people have said they will not be able to attend: David Birnbaum Tomaz Erjavec If this information is incorrect, please let me know.

Time and Place: The meeting will take place on January 12th (Saturday), beginning at 9:00 a.m., at King's College, London, in Room 27C (or Committee Room), Main Building, Strand Campus, Strand, London WC2. I expect our meeting to last the better part of the day, but probably not all of the afternoon. Last-minute agenda items should be sent to me, if you have any to suggest (the agenda as it currently stands is given below).

Lodging: If you haven't arranged lodging, you may still want to consult the web page that Harold Short put up on this topic, which can be found at http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/tei/

Comments on P4 Draft: On December 4th and 5th, respectively, I sent mail to TEI-L and to Humanist, soliciting final comments on the P4 draft guidelines, to be sent to me or to the editors by December 31st. One set of comments was sent to TEI-L by Hilde B?e, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugb?l for Henrik Ibsen's Writings, and I will shortly forward a copy to the Council, to make sure you have it. I haven't received any comments directly, but I expect to receive some shortly from David Seaman, which I will also send to the Council as soon as I have them. If the editors or individual Council members have received (or generated) comments, these should be forwarded to the Council by email as soon as possible, so that we all have a complete set, and time to digest them before the meeting.

Agenda: 1. Charge to the Council from the Board, rules of operation for the Council. Information pertinent to this item can be found in the bylaws, at http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEIby-A6.html 2. A review of P4 and the comments of end-users. The draft guidelines are at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/. 3. Workgroups needed; funding available for needed workgroups. 4. the NEH grant (a copy of that, with budget, will be sent to the Council shortly in another email). 5. The ESTATE project: letter of recommendation and workgroups related to ESTATE. A draft of the ESTATE proposal is available on the web at http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/ESTATE_2.PDF, and a description of the partners is at http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html (no "n" in that filename...). If there are other items that should be added to the agenda, please let me know.

See you in just under a week, John

Past proceedings of this email list (tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) are archived on the web at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/. This URL is password-protected: if you've forgotten the username/password, contact John Unsworth at jmu2m at virginia.edu From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:06:18 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:06:18 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Some suggestions for revision of the TEI Guidelines Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106130605.01d68ea8@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Approved-By: syd at MAMA.STG.BROWN.EDU >X-Sender: hiboe at mail.hf.uio.no >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.brown.edu id > JAA21171 >Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:57:52 +0100 >Reply-To: Hilde B?e >Sender: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list" > >From: Hilde B?e >Subject: Some suggestions for revision of the TEI Guidelines >Comments: To: TEI-lista >Comments: cc: ibsenkod at uib.no >To: TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by listserv.brown.edu >id NAA11193 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by >jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU id NAA03540 > >Suggestions for the forthcoming/ongoing (?) TEI revision >- Hilde B?e, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugb?l for Henrik Ibsen's >Writings, 04.12.2001. > >Our encoding principal, Tone Merete Bruvik, has encouraged us to post this >overview of changes and additions that Henrik Ibsen's Writings has made in >its dtds, on the TEI discussion list as suggestions for revision of the TEI >Guidelines. > >1 Suggestions for corrections > >1.1 , and , and >At HIW we have discussed how to encode complex manuscript substitutions, >additions and deletions on a number of occasions, and we have decided that >our main task in the encoding is to give a photographic impression of the >changes rather than try to reconstruct the order of the changes, e.g. to >let the encoding show the genetic order of the substitutions, additions and >deletions. > >Our need for the first change arises from our basic interpretation of how >to encode manuscript corrections. When i.e. an item in the cast list has >been deleted from the list, we want to record the whole element as deleted, >not just the content of the element, cf. simple examples of encoding below. >We interpret the deletion as covering not just the text of the item, but >the item as a whole. > >CATILINA > >CATILINA > >This interpretation principle has made it necessary to allow , , > and to contain complete structural elements (i.e. , > etc.), cf. element definition below. > > (#PCDATA | abbr | address | date | dateRange | expan | measure > | name | num | rs | time | timeRange | add | app | corr > | damage | del | orig | reg | restore | sic | space | supplied > | unclear | distinct | emph | foreign | gloss | hi | mentioned > | soCalled | term | title | ptr | ref | xptr | xref | caesura > | seg | formula | fw | handShift | bibl | biblFull | biblStruct > | cit | q | quote | label | list | listBibl | note | witDetail > | camera | caption | move | sound | tech | view | castList > | figure | stage | table | text | ab | l | lg | p | sp | > witList | appSpan | clarification > | lgSpan | shy | witEnd | witStart | > alt | altGrp | index | join | joinGrp | link | linkGrp | > timeline | cb | lb | milestone | pb | addSpan | delSpan > | gap | lacunaEnd | lacunaStart | anchor > | epilogue | performance | prologue | set | > divGen | titlePage | byline | docAuthor | docDate | docEdition > | docImprint | docTitle | epigraph | imprimatur > | titlePart | head | div1 | div2 | spOpener | speaker > | roleDesc | role | actor | castItem | stageRole)* > > > > id ID #IMPLIED > lang IDREF #IMPLIED > n CDATA #IMPLIED > cert CDATA #IMPLIED > resp IDREF #IMPLIED > hand IDREF #IMPLIED > status CDATA "unremarkable" > rend CDATA #IMPLIED > type CDATA #IMPLIED > TEIform CDATA "del" > > >Because of this change it is thus only when corrections cross structural >boundaries that we use the span elements. When corrections, deletions or >additions span several whole elements we prefer with and , >or or . These elements make the processing of the encoded texts >easier, and because of this we try to avoid span elements when possible. > >This change has made it necessary to include , and >globally. We also thought this to be a good solution because in >transcribing the Ibsen material we have found that substitutions, additions >and deletions appear nearly everywhere in the text. > >1.2 Global inclusion >We suggest that these changes are considered for inclusion in the TEI >Guidelines. > >1.2.1 >We use the element to record pagination, foliation of leafs, sheet >signatures, column numbers, headers and footers. These appear everywhere, >and we have found it useful to include this element globally. >Our guidelines on the use of this element are as follows: >" should where possible be put outside structural elements >(acts/scenes/speeches/stage directions) [...] should be placed inside >elements that span page breaks etc., eg. within speeches beginning on one >page and continuing on the next." (cited from HIW's guidelines on text >encoding) > >1.2.2

>We use the
element to encode illustrations, logos, separating >lines and ornamental bars. These also tend to appear everywhere in the >text, and we have thus included the element globally. >Our guidelines on the encoding of separating lines and ornamental bars are >as follows: >"We consider separating lines and ornamental bars as bars that conclude >preceding textual elements. On title pages
is placed between the >other elements. The same goes for headings;
is placed between or >after headings. When occuring at the end of an act or a scene,
is >placed within the element it concludes. A separating line at the end of the >last act of a play that concludes the play as a whole, should be placed in > outside the element. Separating lines appearing in connection >with songs and poems in plays, should be placed outside the elements." >(cited from HIW's guidelines on text encoding) > >1.2.3 >It would be useful if it was possible to use everywhere. At HIW >notes are used i.e. to record information between the encoders and thus we >need to be able to use them everywhere. We have therefore added to >our global inclusion in the extension files and we suggest that this change >is included in the TEI Guidelines. > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >2 Suggestions for additions >We suggest that these elements are considered for addition to the TEI >Guidelines. > >2.1 New element: >HIW has constructed a new element, , for the recording of >information on printers for use in in and > in . We find this element useful for information presently >not covered by any of the excisting TEI elements. >Here is the element definition: > > (#PCDATA | app | hi | corr)* > > > > id ID #IMPLIED > lang IDREF #IMPLIED > rend CDATA #IMPLIED > n CDATA #IMPLIED > > >Here is an example of the use of the element in : > > > Henrik Ibsen > Brand > Et dramatisk digt > 2. opplag > > Kj?benhavn > Den Gyldendalske Boghandel (F. Hegel) > J. H. Schultz > 1866 > > > > >2.2 >In the TEI Guidelines there are a few remarks about an element called > (cf. remarks on and in chapter 35 "Elements"). This >element is not implemented in the Guidelines, but we think it should be. > >In the Ibsen material we have some text witnesses that were printed as >serials. In these we sometimes have to omit text or illustrations that are >not part of the text we are transcribing, but that for some reason appear >in the middle of our text. For these instances we have used a gap element; >, but we feel that an element would have >been a better solution. This should then be defined as one of the tags for >editorial changes along with etc., and it should at least include >the reason and resp attributes. > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >3 Suggestions for changes and additions for chapter 18 "Transcription of >Primary Sources" >If there are plans for revising chapter 18 "Transcription of Primary >Sources", and we hope that there are, we have a couple of proposals for >additions and changes now, and we would like to contribute with further >suggestions if given the opportunity on a later occasion. > > >3.1 New element: >We have constructed an element for a manuscript phenomenon we call >clarification, that is, when (parts of) words or letters are overwritten >for the sake of legibility. We record the hand in a hand attribute if this >is another than the original hand. We also record where the clarifying is >done with a place attribute, because we have seen that Ibsen on some (rare) >occasions clarify a word by repeating it somewhere offline (in the margins, >above the line etc.). >Here is the element definition: > > (#PCDATA | abbr | address | date | dateRange | expan | measure > | name | num | rs | time | timeRange | add | app | corr > | damage | del | orig | reg | restore | sic | space | supplied > | unclear | distinct | emph | foreign | gloss | hi | mentioned > | soCalled | term | title | ptr | ref | xptr | xref | caesura > | seg | formula | fw | handShift | bibl | biblFull | biblStruct > | cit | q | quote | label | list | listBibl | note | witDetail > | camera | caption | move | sound | tech | view | castList > | figure | stage | table | text | appSpan | > clarification | lgSpan | shy | spOpener > | witEnd | witStart | alt | altGrp | index | join > | joinGrp | link | linkGrp | timeline | cb | lb | milestone > | pb | addSpan | delSpan | gap | lacunaEnd | lacunaStart > | anchor)* > > > > copyOf IDREF #IMPLIED > corresp IDREFS #IMPLIED > sameAs IDREF #IMPLIED > select IDREFS #IMPLIED > synch IDREFS #IMPLIED > next IDREF #IMPLIED > exclude IDREFS #IMPLIED > prev IDREF #IMPLIED > id ID #IMPLIED > lang IDREF #IMPLIED > rend CDATA #IMPLIED > n CDATA #IMPLIED > hand IDREF #IMPLIED > place CDATA #IMPLIED> > >Here is an example of the use of : > >illegible > >We believe that clarification is a rather common phenomenon in manuscripts, >and, since it is not covered by the existing TEI Guidelines, that it should >be included. Others must have handled this problem earlier, and we are >curious of how they have dealt with this phenomenon. > >3.2 The hand attribute >We have extended the elements , og with the hand attribute >for use in the transcription of manuscripts because we have learned that >the phenomena recorded with these elements quite often are added by other >writers than Ibsen or that they are added with other pens than the first >pen (and for us this qualifies as another hand). Others working with the >transcription of manuscripts must have encountered the same as us, and we >believe that adding a hand attribute to these elements, would be of >interest to others working with transcription of manuscripts. > >-------------------------------------------------------- > >4. Suggestions for additions for chapter 9 "Base Tag Set for Verse" >We add notation of verse structures on all of Ibsen's verse texts, e.g. >verse dramas and poems. Main structure, substructures, variations and >deviations are described for both rhyme and metrical pattern. In doing this >we have had to expand TEI's tag set for verse. > >4.1 New attributes for and > >4.1.1 Anacruses: >The pattern for anacruses (unstressed syllables before the first stressed >syllable in a verse line) may be varying even though the remaining metrical >pattern is regular. And the presence of anacruses infer on the counting of >syllables in the verse lines. Therefore we have found it reasonable to give >information about anacruses in a separate attribute, called an. > >4.1.2 Deviating anacruses, metrics and rhymes: realRhyme=""> >In the TEI Guidelines there is a real attribute intended for notation of >actual realization or deviation from the main formula described in the met >attribute. There is no such possibility for the rhyme attribute, although >this is often necessary. Therefore we have given each of the verse >attributes such possibilities. We have renamed the real attribute realMet >and supplied with the similar realRhyme and realAn. >Here is the element definition of (the definition of has the same >new attributes as ): > > ((argument | byline | dateline | docAuthor | docDate | epigraph > | head | opener | salute | signed)*, (lb | fw | pb | l | lg | stage > | appSpan | addSpan | delSpan | anchor | app | add | del > | clarification | note | figure)+, (byline | closer | dateline > | epigraph | salute | signed | trailer)*) > > > > copyOf IDREF #IMPLIED > corresp IDREFS #IMPLIED > sameAs IDREF #IMPLIED > select IDREFS #IMPLIED > synch IDREFS #IMPLIED > next IDREF #IMPLIED > exclude IDREFS #IMPLIED > prev IDREF #IMPLIED > id ID #IMPLIED > lang IDREF #IMPLIED > rend CDATA #IMPLIED > n CDATA #IMPLIED > sample (initial | medial | final | unknown | complete) "complete" > part (Y | N | I | M | F) "N" > type CDATA #IMPLIED > org (composite | uniform) "uniform" > real CDATA #IMPLIED > met CDATA #IMPLIED > rhyme CDATA #IMPLIED > realMet CDATA #IMPLIED > realRhyme CDATA #IMPLIED > an CDATA #IMPLIED > realAn CDATA #IMPLIED > TEIform CDATA "lg" > > >4.1.3 Example >Here is an example of the new attributes in use: > >rhyme="(A b)2"> > >Nu er det Dagens Trolde, >Nu er det Livets Larm, >Som drysser alle de kolde >R?dsler i min Barm. >... > >As shown in the example we have also made a system for verse notation of >(germanic) verse. It would be very useful to have more specific guidelines >of the detailed verse notation (e.g. the attribute values) in the TEI >Guidelines. But this is perhaps an issue for TEI P5? > >4.2 New elements: , >Beneath the title of poems a line with information of the melody for the >text is often printed/written. There is no appropriate element for such >information in the TEI Guidelines. We are planning to add a new element > for this information. may appear inside or >and contain the elements and <composer> (yes, we want to add the >last element too). > >-------------------------------------------------------- > > >Hilde B?e >-------------------------------------------------------- >Research Assistant, Cand.philol. >Henrik Ibsen's Writings, P.O.Box 1166 Blindern, N-0316 OSLO >Phone +47 2285 9152 - Fax +47 2285 9169 >URL: http://ibsentexts.hit.uib.no/ >Email: hilde.boe at ibsen.uio.no > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:16:27 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:16:27 -0500 Subject: NEH grant Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106131227.01d62938@pop3.norton.antivirus> The TEI received a two-year grant of $131,705 from the National Endowment for the Humanities, Division of Preservation and Access, in May of 2001. Because the TEI did not, at that point, have IRS certification as a non-profit corporation, the grant is administered at the University of Virginia (IRS certification was received in January of 2002). The workplan and budget for that grant appear below, and will be discussed at the January 12, 2002 meeting of the TEI Council. John ------------------------------------------------------------------ <p><p>Budget and Work-plan Revision for the TEI Consortium project, funded under Research and Demonstration, Preservation and Access, National Endowment for the Humanities <p>Workplan: Year 1: 1. Guidelines redone in XML, with XML-compliant examples: one full week of work from each of the two editors. Travel for two editors to one (week-long) meeting. $5,538.46 2. Develop XSL tools for producing XML and SGML DTDs plus the guidelines themselves, replacing P1 Snobol tools. One month from Lou Burnard plus two person-months each from technical staff at Oxford and Virginia, and technical participation from the TEI executive director. Travel for all participants to two meetings. $29,928.33 3. Guidelines revised to talk about XML, not just SGML, throughout. Two months from each of two TEI editors, and two months from technical writer. No travel. $14,166.67 Contributed: Survey of library, scholarly, and other representative users who use TEI in SGML, collecting of samples of their work, and selection of a limited number of projects to participate in the year-two task force on SGML to XML migration. <p>Year 2: 4. Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which selected TEI experts and editors (8 people, total) work closely with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. One start-up meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts. Participation from TEI technical writer for four months, participation of TEI editors and executive director for two months. Travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people, travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. $67533.33 5. Specifications for software tools (including a testing suite for minimal TEI conformance) in response to results of task force. Specifications generated by TEI editors, travel to one meeting. $6548.46 Salaries & Wagesyearmonthweek Steven DeRose, Editor80000.006666.671666.67 Lou Burnard, Editor80000.006666.671666.67 Sebastian Rahtz, Consultant80000.006666.671666.67 Tone Merete Bruvik, Executive Director80000.006666.671666.67 Kirk Hastings, Consultant60000.005000.001250.00 Technical Writer60000.005000.001250.00 1) Implementing ED W69 (before ACH/ALLC 2001)NEHCost SharingTotal Editors, 2 weeks work1666.671666.673333.33 Travel (include. Expences)4000.004000.00 Subtotal5666.671666.677333.33 2) XSLT tools for DTD & GuidelinesNEHCost SharingTotal Lou Burnard, 1 month3333.333333.336666.67 Steven DeRose, non0.000.00 Sebastian Rahtz, 1 months6666.676666.67 Kirk Hastings, 1 month5000.005000.00 Executive Director, 1 week1666.671666.67 Travel (include. Expences)11595.0011595.00 Subtotal28261.673333.3331595.00 3) Rewriting the GuidelinesNEHCost SharingTotal Editors, 2 month6666.676666.6713333.33 Technical Writer, 1.5 months7500.007500.00 Subtotal14166.676666.6720833.33 Project managment Exec.dir. 1.5 months5000.005000.0010000.00 Subtotal - first year of the project:53095.0016666.6769761.67 4) Task force beginning in May 2002TravelsDaysNEHCost SharingTotal 5 independent persons, report to Tone Merete Bruvik 1 startup meeting, 5 + 1 + 2 = 8 persons x 1 day8.008.00 1 workshop: 5 + 1 + 2 + 10 = 18 persons x 2 day18.0036.00 1 meeting, 5 + 1 + 2 = 8 persons x 1 day8.008.00 Travel:34000.0034000.00 Expences5200.005200.00 Editors, 1.5 month6666.673333.3310000.00 Executive Director, 1.5 month6666.673333.3310000.00 Technical Writer 3 months15000.0015000.00 Subtotal67533.336666.6774200.00 5) Redesigning Pizza Chef Spec. Editors, 1 week1666.671666.67 Travel (include. Expences)4410.004410.00 Subtotal6076.670.006076.67 Project managment Exec.dir. 1.5 months5000.005000.0010000.00 Subtotal - second year of the project:78610.0011666.6790276.67 TOTAL131705.0028333.33160038.33 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 04:24:08 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:24:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: New material on DLF website -- SIP Specification Draft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <New material on DLF website -- SIP Specification Draft (fwd)> Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.33.0201070921210.804-100000@benn> SIP is definitely of interest if we are planning to discuss revising TEI metadata. <p>> ----- Forwarded by Nancy Elkington/RLG on 04/01/02 15:14 ----- > > > Daniel Greenstein <dgreenstein at CLIR.ORG> > Sent by: DLF Digital Library Announcements > <DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM> > 28/12/01 20:28 > Please respond to DLF Digital Library Announcements > > > To: DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM > cc: > Subject: New material on DLF website > > > > > Two new reports are now available from the DLF website. > > 1. Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information > Environment (December 2001). A report by William S. Brockman, Laura > Neumann, Carole L. Palmer, Tonyia J. Tidline > http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html > > 2. Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 > DRAFT ? December 19, 2001 (December 2001). A draft proposal developed > by Harvard University Library as part of its Mellon e-journal > archiving project. http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf > > > ************ > > Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information > Environment http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html). As the > scholarly information environment changes, so do the needs, > expectations, and behaviors of users. Assessing and responding to > those changes is essential for the academic library so that it may > continue in support of the scholarly mission. The authors of this > report have formally examined how humanities scholars conduct and > collate their research. The study was based on a small sample of > scholars; nonetheless, the results are powerfully suggestive of ways > in which academic libraries can adapt to and develop in a rapidly > changing environment. In particular, the findings emphasize how > important it is for libraries to chart their evolutionary course in > close consultation with scholarly user communities. This study results > from the fruitful cross-fertilization between the scholar concerned > with aspects of information science and the librarian concerned with > delivering operational information services. > > > Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 DRAFT ? > December 19, 2001 http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf The > purpose of the Harvard University E-Journal Archive is to preserve the > significant intellectual content of journals independent of the form > in which that content was originally delivered in order to assure that > this content will be available to the scholarly community for the > indefinite future. Functionally, the archive is designed to render > text and still images and other formats as practical with no > significant loss in intellectual content. The archive reserves the > right to freely manipulate the internal format of the manifestation > over time as long as the plain meaning of the intellectual content is > preserved. The framework for discussing the architecture and operation > of the archive is provided by the Open Archival Information System > (OAIS) Reference Model. Under the OAIS model, material from a content > provider is transmitted to the archive in a form called a Submission > Information Package (SIP). The format of the SIP acceptable to the > Harvard archive is described normatively by this specification. From tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no Mon Jan 7 04:54:22 2002 From: tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no (Tone Merete Bruvik) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:54:22 +0100 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda In-Reply-To: <20020106185520.GM1048@smtp.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <p05001905b85f0f52b6e0@[129.177.24.34]> Dear council, I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I have not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at the last minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your agenda for the meeting, and it might be in that connection John was expecting me in London. Please let me say a few words about the project, and please observe that the links John send you are outdated: Together with Peter Robinson, I am writing an EU proposal for a project called ESTATE. We would like to ask the council to write a letter of recommendation for this project, and more specific to put set up one or two working groups that will partly be sponsored by the ESTATE project: - TEI workgroup on primary text cataloguing, in the areas of incunables and documentary texts (letters, historical documents, etc.). This will build on the MASTER standard and recommendations from the TEI work group for the Description of Medieval and Renaissance Manuscripts, which already provides most of the elements and structure needed for such encoding. - TEI workgroup on primary text representation, in the form of transcriptions and editions of the texts themselves. This workgroup will focus particularly on the problems posed by 'genetic texts': authorial manuscripts showing many overlays of revision. The ESTATE project will found the participation from the partners in the ESTATE project, but the workgroups will be under TEI control and may last longer than the 24 months we are planning for the ESTATE project. You may found more information about the ESTATE project at: http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ The user name is "ESTATE", and the password "estate" Please look in the part C of the proposal (http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ESTATE_C.html) to find the list of partners (the http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html is outdated) You will se from the list of partners that two of the participants at the London meeting, are also involved: Matthew Driscoll and Lou Burnard. You will also see that the proposal is currently a draft, and the council may need further information in order to decide if you would like to support this proposal. The deadline for the proposal is the last week of February. Any comments and suggestions from the council and its members to the proposal are of course very welcome. Your sincerely Tone Merete Bruvik From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 08:54:46 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:54:46 -0500 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda In-Reply-To: <p05001905b85f0f52b6e0@[129.177.24.34]> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020107085335.00cfad20@jefferson.village.virginia.edu> At 10:54 AM 1/7/02 +0100, you wrote: >Dear council, > >I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I have >not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at the last >minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your agenda for the >meeting, and it might be in that connection John was expecting me in London. My mistake--I guess I assumed you'd be there. Sorry we won't see you, and thanks for the update on ESTATE. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 12:12:37 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:12:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: New revision of P4X now available Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201071703210.27082-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> In preparation for the first meeting of the TEI Council at the end of this week, the TEI editors (in particular Syd) have been hard at work fixing hundreds of minor errors in the text of TEI P4, the XML edition of the Guidelines. The newly revised text, together with updated versions of the TEI DTDs, is now available for comment. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/ for an overview of the current status, with links to both HTML and PDF versions of the text. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/DTD/ to get copies of the most recent version of the DTDs. Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 13:43:42 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:43:42 -0500 Subject: New revision of P4X now available In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201071703210.27082-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac. uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107134255.01d2fcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Lou, Is there an easy way to provide a single PDF of the current state of P4 for downloading, for those who want to carry an electronic copy to the meeting? John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 14:09:25 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:09:25 +0000 Subject: New revision of P4X now available In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107134255.01d2fcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020107190925.GB367@smtp.ntlworld.com> On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:43:42PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > > Is there an easy way to provide a single PDF of the current state of P4 for > downloading, for those who want to carry an electronic copy to the meeting? already there, as http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/P4X/driver.pdf we may bring along from Oxford half a dozen CDs of the latest incarnation, for those who don't have one already (although of course this CD will be just that little bit better than the one from Pisa....) -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Jan 7 17:20:09 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:20:09 -0800 Subject: New material on DLF website -- SIP Specification Draft (fwd) In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.33.0201070921210.804-100000@benn> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020107080446.05f02b10@notes.rlg.org> If folks want to familiarize themselves with the concepts outlined by the OAIS, including the SIP, I suggest the following document. http://www.rlg.org/longterm/attributes01.pdf (see Appendix A, p. 43) I think that the TEI could be one component of a SIP, or Submission Information Package, that would go to an Open Archival Information System, or an OAIS (according to the OAIS Referrence Model). But because each community defines its own SIP, this is probably an area that the TEI as an organization needs to have some awareness and not an area where we need to set policy. Best, Merrilee At 09:24 AM 1/7/2002 +0000, you wrote: >SIP is definitely of interest if we are planning to discuss revising TEI >metadata. > > > > ----- Forwarded by Nancy Elkington/RLG on 04/01/02 15:14 ----- > > > > > > Daniel Greenstein <dgreenstein at CLIR.ORG> > > Sent by: DLF Digital Library Announcements > > <DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM> > > 28/12/01 20:28 > > Please respond to DLF Digital Library Announcements > > > > > > To: DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM > > cc: > > Subject: New material on DLF website > > > > > > > > > > Two new reports are now available from the DLF website. > > > > 1. Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information > > Environment (December 2001). A report by William S. Brockman, Laura > > Neumann, Carole L. Palmer, Tonyia J. Tidline > > http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html > > > > 2. Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 > > DRAFT ? December 19, 2001 (December 2001). A draft proposal developed > > by Harvard University Library as part of its Mellon e-journal > > archiving project. http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf > > > > > > ************ > > > > Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information > > Environment http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html). As the > > scholarly information environment changes, so do the needs, > > expectations, and behaviors of users. Assessing and responding to > > those changes is essential for the academic library so that it may > > continue in support of the scholarly mission. The authors of this > > report have formally examined how humanities scholars conduct and > > collate their research. The study was based on a small sample of > > scholars; nonetheless, the results are powerfully suggestive of ways > > in which academic libraries can adapt to and develop in a rapidly > > changing environment. In particular, the findings emphasize how > > important it is for libraries to chart their evolutionary course in > > close consultation with scholarly user communities. This study results > > from the fruitful cross-fertilization between the scholar concerned > > with aspects of information science and the librarian concerned with > > delivering operational information services. > > > > > > Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 DRAFT ? > > December 19, 2001 http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf The > > purpose of the Harvard University E-Journal Archive is to preserve the > > significant intellectual content of journals independent of the form > > in which that content was originally delivered in order to assure that > > this content will be available to the scholarly community for the > > indefinite future. Functionally, the archive is designed to render > > text and still images and other formats as practical with no > > significant loss in intellectual content. The archive reserves the > > right to freely manipulate the internal format of the manifestation > > over time as long as the plain meaning of the intellectual content is > > preserved. The framework for discussing the architecture and operation > > of the archive is provided by the Open Archival Information System > > (OAIS) Reference Model. Under the OAIS model, material from a content > > provider is transmitted to the archive in a form called a Submission > > Information Package (SIP). The format of the SIP acceptable to the > > Harvard archive is described normatively by this specification. From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Jan 7 18:06:49 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:06:49 +0100 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106120431.01d58bd0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C3A3819.27889.295DD4F@localhost> Sorry if my last email has been misleading: I won't be able to come to the meeting. Fotis Jannidis <p>Date sent: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:05:08 -0500 To: TEI Council <tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu> From: John Unsworth <jmu2m at virginia.edu> Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda Copies to: TEI Board <tei-board at lists.village.virginia.edu> Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > A few reminders, concerning the upcoming TEI Council Meeting: > > Attendees: > > The following thirteen people have said they expect to attend this meeting: > Syd Bauman, editor > Lou Burnard, editor > Tone Merete Bruvik, executive director > Matthew Driscoll > David Durand > Fotis Jannidis (?) > Merrilee Proffitt > Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative > Geoff Rockwell > Laurent Romary (arriving late) > John Unsworth, Chair > Perry Willett > Christian Wittern > > The following two people have said they will not be able to attend: > David Birnbaum > Tomaz Erjavec > > If this information is incorrect, please let me know. > > > Time and Place: > > The meeting will take place on January 12th (Saturday), beginning at 9:00 > a.m., at King's College, London, in Room 27C (or Committee Room), Main > Building, Strand Campus, Strand, London WC2. I expect our meeting to last > the better part of the day, but probably not all of the > afternoon. Last-minute agenda items should be sent to me, if you have any > to suggest (the agenda as it currently stands is given below). > > > Lodging: > > If you haven't arranged lodging, you may still want to consult the web page > that Harold Short put up on this topic, which can be found at > http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/tei/ > > > Comments on P4 Draft: > > On December 4th and 5th, respectively, I sent mail to TEI-L and to > Humanist, soliciting final comments on the P4 draft guidelines, to be sent > to me or to the editors by December 31st. One set of comments was sent to > TEI-L by Hilde Be, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugbl for Henrik > Ibsen's Writings, and I will shortly forward a copy to the Council, to make > sure you have it. I haven't received any comments directly, but I expect > to receive some shortly from David Seaman, which I will also send to the > Council as soon as I have them. If the editors or individual Council > members have received (or generated) comments, these should be forwarded to > the Council by email as soon as possible, so that we all have a complete > set, and time to digest them before the meeting. > > > Agenda: > > 1. Charge to the Council from the Board, rules of operation for the > Council. Information pertinent to this item can be found in the bylaws, at > http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEIby-A6.html > > 2. A review of P4 and the comments of end-users. The draft guidelines are > at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/. > > 3. Workgroups needed; funding available for needed workgroups. > > 4. the NEH grant (a copy of that, with budget, will be sent to the Council > shortly in another email). > > 5. The ESTATE project: letter of recommendation and workgroups related to > ESTATE. A draft of the ESTATE proposal is available on the web at > http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/ESTATE_2.PDF, and a description of the > partners is at http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html (no "n" in > that filename...). > > If there are other items that should be added to the agenda, please let me > know. > > > See you in just under a week, > > John > > > > Past proceedings of this email list > (tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) are archived on the web at > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/. This URL is > password-protected: if you've > forgotten the username/password, contact John Unsworth at jmu2m at virginia.edu > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 19:20:58 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: 08 Jan 2002 09:20:58 +0900 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda In-Reply-To: <p05001905b85f0f52b6e0@[129.177.24.34]> Message-ID: <ygf1yh1ae1h.fsf@herbst.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Dear colleagues, Just a short comment on Tone Meretes suggestions: Within the Sinologist research communities across the Pacific Rim (that is Taiwan, China, the United States and Japan), there has been some effort to establish a standard for the exchange of metadata of stone rubbings, bronze inscriptions and eventually also manuscript data. This effort has been stalled recently for a number of reasons, not the least of them political. I think it would benefit both these researchers and the TEI to try to integrate these efforts with the ongoing manuscript description TEI modules. I wonder what the council members think about this and whether it seems worth to pursue. A follow up question would then be whether this could fit in with ESTATE and the WG's suggested by Tone Merete, or whether some separate WG would prove more efficient. All the best, Christian Wittern Tone Merete Bruvik <tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no> writes: > [1 <text/plain; us-ascii (7bit)>] > Dear council, > > I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I > have not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at > the last minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your > agenda for the meeting, and it might be in that connection John was > expecting me in London. > > Please let me say a few words about the project, and please observe > that the links John send you are outdated: > > Together with Peter Robinson, I am writing an EU proposal for a > project called ESTATE. We would like to ask the council to write a > letter of recommendation for this project, and more specific to put > set up one or two working groups that will partly be sponsored by the > ESTATE project: > > - TEI workgroup on primary text cataloguing, in the areas of > incunables and documentary texts (letters, historical documents, > etc.). This will build on the MASTER standard and recommendations > from the TEI work group for the Description of Medieval and > Renaissance Manuscripts, which already provides most of the elements > and structure needed for such encoding. > > - TEI workgroup on primary text representation, in the form of > transcriptions and editions of the texts themselves. This workgroup > will focus particularly on the problems posed by 'genetic texts': > authorial manuscripts showing many overlays of revision. > > The ESTATE project will found the participation from the partners in > the ESTATE project, but the workgroups will be under TEI control and > may last longer than the 24 months we are planning for the ESTATE > project. > > You may found more information about the ESTATE project at: > > http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ > > The user name is "ESTATE", and the password "estate" > > Please look in the part C of the proposal > (http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ESTATE_C.html) to find the list > of partners (the http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html is > outdated) You will se from the list of partners that two of the > participants at the London meeting, are also involved: Matthew > Driscoll and Lou Burnard. > > You will also see that the proposal is currently a draft, and the > council may need further information in order to decide if you would > like to support this proposal. The deadline for the proposal is the > last week of February. > > Any comments and suggestions from the council and its members to the > proposal are of course very welcome. > > Your sincerely > Tone Merete Bruvik > [2 <text/html; us-ascii (7bit)>] > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 19:26:51 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: 08 Jan 2002 09:26:51 +0900 Subject: Workgroup for recommendations on character set issues needed Message-ID: <ygfy9j98z78.fsf@herbst.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Dear council members, Since this past July, I have been charged with an interim working group and the task of reviewing the recommendations related to character sets and character usage in the TEI Guidelines. At the Pisa meeting, I made a preliminary report on the WG's progress and expressed the hope that the council would consider officially establishing this WG with an expanded list of work items to consider for P5. I would like to suggest this as one point for discussion under the agenda item 3. All the best, Christian Wittern -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 20:30:56 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: 08 Jan 2002 10:30:56 +0900 Subject: New revision of P4X now available In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201071703210.27082-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <ygfu1tx8w8f.fsf@herbst.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Lou, I just checked the status of Chapter 4, it seems to be unchanged. Is there anything I can do to improve this? If I remember correctly, in Pisa we agreed that this would be a showstopper for P4. All the best, Christian <p><p>Lou Burnard <lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk> writes: > In preparation for the first meeting of the TEI Council at the end of this > week, the TEI editors (in particular Syd) have been hard at work fixing > hundreds of minor errors in the text of TEI P4, the XML edition of the > Guidelines. > > The newly revised text, together with updated versions of the TEI DTDs, is > now available for comment. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/ for an > overview of the current status, with links to both HTML and PDF versions > of the text. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/DTD/ to get copies of the most > recent version of the DTDs. > > Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman > > > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 21:59:08 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:59:08 -0500 Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda In-Reply-To: <3C3A3819.27889.295DD4F@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107215823.01d1cf30@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:06 AM 1/8/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Sorry if my last email has been misleading: I won't be able to come to the >meeting. <p>I wasn't sure--and I couldn't find a definitive answer in my old email. Thanks for the clarification. John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 8 18:20:00 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:20:00 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: P4X revision: charactersets Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.33.0201082316320.828-100000@benn> Although we have made substantial progress in other respects, there remain many minor details and one or two larger parts of the text of P4X which, in the opinion of the editors, are not yet ready for pub- lication. The current chapter 4 (Character Sets) is one such, on which the Council's opinion is particularly sought. The provisional working group chaired by Chris Wittern worked under excessive pressure and with exemplary speed to produce a preliminary draft last November; after some discussion with the group, we agreed to revise their draft over the Christmas break but regrettably have so far been unable to carry out this task, nor do we honestly expect to be able to make much progress before the Council meets. For that reason, the current P4X text has not changed since the version distributed in Pisa. It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is, regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter. We would like to continue the work already begun to that end, in consultation with Chris and the rest of the group, and hope that the Council will agree that this should be given high priority. <p>Lou and Syd From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 9 03:54:39 2002 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:54:39 +0100 Subject: P4X revision: charactersets In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.33.0201082316320.828-100000@benn> Message-ID: <3C3C054F.D17B0F2E@loria.fr> Hi Lou, I have printed the two things and will work on it before Saturday. See you in London Laurent Lou Burnard a *crit : > Although we have made substantial progress in other respects, there > remain many minor details and one or two larger parts of the text of > P4X which, in the opinion of the editors, are not yet ready for pub- > lication. The current chapter 4 (Character Sets) is one such, on which > the Council's opinion is particularly sought. > > The provisional working group chaired by Chris Wittern worked under > excessive pressure and with exemplary speed to produce a preliminary draft > last November; after some discussion with the group, we agreed to revise > their draft over the Christmas break but regrettably have so far been > unable to carry out this task, nor do we honestly expect to be able to > make much progress before the Council meets. For that reason, the current > P4X text has not changed since the version distributed in Pisa. > > It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a > point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at > http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of > the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or > http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed > discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is, > regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for > publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to > delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter. > > We would like to continue the work already begun to that end, in > consultation with Chris and the rest of the group, and hope that the > Council will agree that this should be given high priority. > > Lou and Syd -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Laurent.Romary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 273 bytes Desc: Carte pour Laurent Romary Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20020109/6500b2cd/attachment.vcf From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 9 04:32:28 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: 09 Jan 2002 18:32:28 +0900 Subject: P4X revision: charactersets In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.33.0201082316320.828-100000@benn> Message-ID: <ygfd70jc1jn.fsf@herbst.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp> Dear Council members, Looking at the links that Lou gave in this message, I realized that the HTML version of our draft was difficult to read because some of the notes appeared inline, others at the end. I have now made a new version of the document that gets rid of this problem. I have made it available at http://www.kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~wittern/tei/p4rev-chap4.html Except for this minor technical issue, it is unchanged from the document submitted to the TEI Editors in November. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by this oversight. All the best, Christian Wittern Lou Burnard <lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk> writes: > It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a > point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at > http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of > the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or > http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed > discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is, > regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for > publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to > delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter. -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jan 11 10:19:16 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:19:16 +0100 Subject: question Message-ID: <3C3F1084.28710.1FC02D4@localhost> Hello, maybe this is something for the agenda tomorrow: A group of German historians are considering to develop a dtd for the transcription of historical sources. They want to collaborate with the TEI. As far as I can see, this is very much in the beginning, but it poses a general question: how to cooperate in the most fruitful way. Is the TEI generally trying to cooperate as closely as possible in order to incorporate special demands like this into the TEI recommendations? They asked me some special questions which I have to forward to you: - How are new working groups established? - Is there a level of discussion of TEI extensions more formally than the discussion lists, but not as formally as the working groups? As the proposed work is rather in the domain of the TEI section on the "Transcription of Primary Sources" I guess they also want to know how to cooperate with a working group. A more general idea in this context: Should the TEI offer to host extensions to the TEI (which use the extension mechanism) which have been developed by some project? In projects like perl the module archive does offer everybody working with perl access to tested code and some modules are becoming part of the standard distribution after a while. On the other side: Maybe the extensions are most of the time so specific that they wouldn't be worthwhile sharing. Best wishes for the meeting. Fotis Jannidis From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 14 12:42:58 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:42:58 -0500 Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114113055.01c67f70@pop3.norton.antivirus> Dear Council and Board members: The TEI Council met for the first time on January 12th, 2002, in London, at Kings' College. The TEI Consortium is grateful for Board member Harold Short's assistance in arranging for the meeting venue. This is an interim and summary report on the meeting and its results, written on the plane on the way home, from the Chair's memory and notes: official minutes (taken by Geoff Rockwell, with corroborating notes by Merrilee Proffitt) will be posted to the Council for corrections and approval within the week, and added to the members' web site within two weeks. If those minutes differ from what follows in any particular, the minutes should be considered the authoritative record. Attending: Syd Bauman, editor Lou Burnard, editor Matthew Driscoll David Durand Merrilee Proffitt Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative Geoff Rockwell Laurent Romary John Unsworth, Chair Perry Willett Christian Wittern Unable to Attend: David Birnbaum Tomaz Erjavec Fotis Jannidis The Council met from 9 a.m. until 4 p.m., with two breaks totalling less than half an hour. Discussions were animated but cordial, and very productive. Agenda items and results: 1. Charge to the Council from the Board--areas of responsibility and rules of operation. Bylaws Article VI, section 2, were reviewed and read aloud. 2. Review of P4 and the comments of end users P4 will include the description of tag contexts (parents, children, etc.) in each tag description, as in P3. Editors will revise Chapter 4 (character sets) in light of the report of the Character Encoding workgroup, and circulate the revision to the Council and the workgroup for comment, within the next few weeks. Chapter 2 (Gentle introduuction to XML) needs and will receive further revision. Editors will spell out in the chapter on linking the officially sanctioned, entity-based strategy for XML references to URLs, but will also note an unofficial but sensible strategy for direct XML reference, in an attribute value, for those not using catalogues. Print-on-Demand pricing for P4 is now urgently needed. If David Seaman is unable to procure a quote, the Chair will pursue one separately. When such a quote is available, the Council will discuss the size of a hard-bound print run for P4, by email. 3. Future direction of P5 P5 will not necessarily be tied to SGML support. P5 should probably include the ODD facilities that the editors use to produce the TEI guidelines and DTD--in other words, should incorporate and document the ODD DTD P5 should extend the work of the Character Set working group, in particular addressing XML:Lang and TEI:Lang P5 should have a well understood and clearly articulated strategy for adopting, supplementing, and referencing other relevant standards. Character encoding and linking, schemas, and metadata were some areas where the Council needs to decide a strategy in this regard. The Council decided that it should, in effect, consider itself a workgroup for the purpose of addressing some key strategic and infrastructural issues in planning for P5, for example schemas, DTDs, namespaces. The Council also decided not to turn to those issues until P4 was put to bed, some time this spring. [From discussions subsequent to the meeting, and the Chair's own autocratic scheduling impulse: When the Council does begin discussion of these issues, probably some time in April, we will ask Perry Willett to host regular conference calls, and we will endeavor to provide a preliminary overview of the issues to the Board's May meeting.] In the course of this discussion it became clear that not all Council members are subscribers or constituents of member institutions, and therefore haven't had access to the "members only" section of the web site. The Chair will propose to the Board that they be given that access in order to facilitate their work. The Council agreed to discuss Fotis Jannidis' query about cooperation with other groups (in this case, historians) by email, over the coming weeks, and to treat it as a particular instance of a general case. 4. Workgroups needed, and funding available Christian Wittern will continue the current workgroup on Character Encoding for long enough to review the revision of P4, chapter 4 (to be completed in a matter of weeks). He is then appointed by the Council to establish a new workgroup, with a budget of $8,000, to address character set and language issues for P5. That workgroup will provide an interim report to the Board meeting in May, a draft report to the Members' meeting in October, and a final report to the next Council meeting in January of 2003 (possibly to be held in Washington, D.C.). David Durand will establish a workgroup on linking, with the same budget and schedule as the Character Encoding workgroup. The Council will review EDW54, a document written by Michael Sperberg-McQueen to detail the rights and responsibilities of workgroups. Comments and revision will be done by email, by the end of January. A preliminary review of the document at the meeting suggested that it was useful and relevant, and would need relatively little updating. The Chair will draft a release to be signed by members of future workgroups, granting the TEI Consortium a perpetual, non-exclusive license to intellectual property such members might produce in the course of their work for the TEI, and agreeing to have that work edited by the TEI editors before it is included in TEI publications. Workgroup issues raised by the NEH grant were referred to that agenda item (next). Future workgroups are treated under the discussion of the Estate proposal (item 6, below). Standard term for a workgroup will be one year, renewable. Standard practice will be to appoint a chair, perhaps recommending some members but not mandating them, and providing a budget rather than dictating a number of participants or meetings. Workgroups should hold at least one physical meeting, and must report at least once, during the year. 5. NEH grant The Council reviewed the history and the revised plan of work, schedule, and budget of the NEH grant-funded project on XMLization of the TEI. [Though this was not discussed, the Chair remarks that we should probably change the PI for this grant from Steve DeRose to John Unsworth, given that Steve is not at present a TEI editor, and the grant now resides at Virginia.] Good progress has been made on this project, and some work still needs to be billed, especially by Oxford: Oxford was reminded that federal monies have a tendency to revert to the funder if they are not spent within the term of the grant. The work remaining is principally focused on the migration of existing TEI/SGML resources into XML, and the provision of documentation, methods, and tools for that migration. This work is to be carried out by a workgroup consisting of six experts, consulting with ten representatives of large holdings, and with the assistance of the TEI technical writer (at Oxford). The Council agreed that the Chair should ask John Price-Wilkin to chair the experts workgroup, and the Council generated a list of names to suggest to John, should he accept, for membership of both the workgroup and the users group. 6. The Estate Project The Council recognized the usefulness of the Estate proposal to the TEI Consortium, especially as it promises to provide funding for an expanded training regimen. The Council also recognized that the Consortium should have some published description and standard rules for this sort of collaboration, spelling out how to approach the Consortium for partnership in grant proposals, how to ensure necessary intellectual and technical control for the Council in collaborative projects, etc.. Many of these issues will be handled by the subcommittee on consulting and services (see below); for matters pertaining specifically to the Estate proposal, the Chair will email Tone Merete Bruvik in the next week, to request some clarifications and perhaps some minor revisions. The Council is particularly pleased to note that the two workgroups likely to be called into being if the Estate proposal is successful correspond closely to the Council's next two area of interests, after Character Encoding and Linking, namely Metadata and Transcription of Primary Sources. 7. Training and services Geoff Rockwell, Sebastian Rahtz, and Perry Willett will form a subcommittee on training. In time for the May meeting of the Board, they will survey existing TEI training (including the materials used in that training) and recommend a course of action for the TEI with respect to training. A number of options were discussed, and the subcommittee was advised to invite Julia Flanders (recently charged by the Board with investigating training) to be a part of their discussion. Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary will form a subcommittee on consulting and certification, to investigate costs, benefits, and parallels in the area of data validation, software certification and test suites, TEI developer sites, etc.. They will also make a recommendation to the Board by the time of its May meeting. The Council recommended trademarking the name "Text Encoding Initiative" so that it would be protected, if we do end up using it for certifying training or services. The Chair will pursue that, with lawyers he knows only too well. ---------------------- John Unsworth Chair, TEI Council From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jan 15 18:25:35 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:25:35 -0500 Subject: expenses for the meeting Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115182402.01c67818@pop3.norton.antivirus> Council members and editors who attended the London meeting, January 12th, should submit expenses to Tone Merete Bruvik, using the "travel reimbursement form" found at: http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ (toward the bottom of the page, either in PDF or Excel). The mailing address is on the form-- John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Jan 16 07:29:14 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:29:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114113055.01c67f70@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201161225550.10744-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Dear Council and Board members: > > The TEI Council met for the first time on January 12th, 2002, in London, > at Kings' College. The TEI Consortium is grateful for Board member Harold > Short's assistance in arranging for the meeting venue. This is an interim > and summary report on the meeting and its results, written on the plane on > the way home, from the Chair's memory and notes: official minutes (taken by > Geoff Rockwell, with corroborating notes by Merrilee Proffitt) will be > posted to the Council for corrections and approval within the week, and > added to the members' web site within two weeks. If those minutes differ > from what follows in any particular, the minutes should be considered the > authoritative record. > Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me! I intend to post a brief announcement to the effect that the meeting took place NOW, and would like to include in it a link to John's preliminary summary of the business transacted (to which I have allocated the number TCM00). The official minutes, when they appear, will be flagged as such, and should by the way have document number TCM01. <p>Lou From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 10:12:31 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:12:31 -0500 Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201161225550.10744-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac. uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116101123.01d28478@pop3.norton.antivirus> Lou says: >Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO >WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me! > >I intend to post a brief announcement to the effect that the meeting took >place NOW, and would like to include in it a link to John's preliminary >summary of the business transacted (to which I have allocated the >number TCM00). The official minutes, when they appear, will be flagged as >such, and should by the way have document number TCM01. That's fine with me, unless anyone sees some glaring error of fact, or omission, in my summary. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 14:38:24 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:38:24 -0500 Subject: JPW Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116143747.01d459b8@pop3.norton.antivirus> I've written to John Price-Wilkin to invite him to chair the XML-migration workgroup; I'll let you know what he says. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 15:18:16 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:18:16 -0500 Subject: Council's questions for the Board Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Two questions for decision by the Board emerged from the TEI Council meeting last Saturday: please vote yes or no on each question. 1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of the TEI web site? The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council might well need in order to do its job. The argument against was less clear to me, at least--but I think it turned on the fact that TEI Council members don't necessarily have to be subscribers or constituents of member institutions. 2. Should the TEI trademark its name? The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the Consortium. I've a query into the lawyer here about whether he might help with this, but I also know that it can be done online, at a cost of about $125. So, please register an opinion on each question. Thanks, John John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 15:22:31 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:22:31 -0500 Subject: EDW54 (please review) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus> Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI workgroups), which can be found at: http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within the week. John From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Jan 17 03:51:47 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:51:47 +0100 (MET) Subject: EDW54 (please review) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <200201170851.JAA17697@obelix.ijs.si> John Unsworth writes: > Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI > workgroups), which can be found at: > http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm > We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within > the week. Mostly changes to do with the restructuring as a consortium: 1. The preamble obviously needs to be changed. 2. Everywhere "TEI executive committee" and "TRC" should be changed to "TEI-C Council" 3. Does "(TEI central) secretariat" still exist or should it be changed to (TEI-C) secretary"? 4 "TEI participants" to "TEI-C members" (& board?) (&other WG members?) 5. I guess it should be stated whether members/heads of WGs have to be members of the consortium, and, like the council, whether they have access to the members' web space. I'd suggest no and yes. 6. SGML to XML... <p>Best, Tomaz -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 04:34:37 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:34:37 +0000 Subject: Council's questions for the Board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020117093437.GB15931@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 03:18:16PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > meeting last Saturday: please vote yes or no on each question. > > 1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of > the TEI web site? no. > The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council > might well need in order to do its job. in which case it should be in another area of the web site why set up a mechanism of membership and then immediately disregard it? > 2. Should the TEI trademark its name? > > The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of > services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking > would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the > Consortium. no. its too culture-specific to spend the TEIC money on more and more lawyers. as Jan says, can we afford to bring a case? no. so why bother? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Jan 17 10:38:52 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:38:52 -0800 Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <Council meeting, January 12, 2002> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117073829.00a8fdb8@notes.rlg.org> At 10:12 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, John Unsworth wrote: >Lou says: > >>Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO >>WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me! Well, no, it's not web time, but is this so pressing that we cannot have some time to review the minutes (that we haven't even seen)? If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I would add that the council was going to take a week to review the document and give real, considered feedback on the proposal through John. The two workgroups that Estate would deal with are transcription and description, which were number 4 and 5 on our enumerated list -- metadata is not included, I believe (but then again, I can't print out and read the project description until tomorrow). I think John did a good thing by posting a meeting summary for the board and council, and this serves the group that is on an immediate-need-to-know basis. I am not in favor of posting unofficial minutes to the web site without review. I am in favor of having some short deadlines so that the documents do not languish. The world can wait two weeks. Merrilee Merrilee Proffitt Research Libraries Group -- www.rlg.org 1200 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041 USA voice: +1-650-691-2309 -- mgp at notes.rlg.org From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 11:12:13 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:12:13 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117073829.00a8fdb8@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201171608110.12218-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Merrilee Proffitt wrote: > At 10:12 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > >Lou says: > > > >>Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO > >>WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me! > > Well, no, it's not web time, but is this so pressing that we cannot have > some time to review the minutes (that we haven't even seen)? The formal; minutes is not the same as a brief summary/press release stating that the meeting occurred and a broad outline of what was discussed. I would like to be able to post such a thing on the website immediately after all TEI events (cf the Pisa Members meeting) > > If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I > would add that the council was going to take a week to review the document > and give real, considered feedback on the proposal through John. The two > workgroups that Estate would deal with are transcription and description, > which were number 4 and 5 on our enumerated list -- metadata is not > included, I believe (but then again, I can't print out and read the project > description until tomorrow). I'm sure the Minutes when they appear will address this. > > I think John did a good thing by posting a meeting summary for the board > and council, and this serves the group that is on an immediate-need-to-know > basis. Do you agree draft minutes should go to the membership? If not, how do we make good our promise to allow them access to pre-release drafts of all TEI documents? <p>> I am not in favor of posting unofficial minutes to the web site > without review. I am in favor of having some short deadlines so that the > documents do not languish. The world can wait two weeks. > > Merrilee > > Merrilee Proffitt > Research Libraries Group -- www.rlg.org > 1200 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041 USA > voice: +1-650-691-2309 -- mgp at notes.rlg.org > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Jan 17 13:14:40 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:14:40 -0800 Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201171608110.12218-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac. uk> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117100641.04376ea8@notes.rlg.org> I think there is a big difference between circulating a summary via email and posting a detailed (but unapproved) summary on a web site where it becomes an official TEI document. Possibly, you could route an email to the members simply that the meeting occurred; saying who attended the meeting; giving the major topics covered (but not outcomes); and when the meeting minutes will be available. Hopefully this would allow us to appear responsive and demonstrate that progress is being made, without sacrificing accuracy. [Merrilee] > > If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I > > would add [...snip] [Lou responds] >I'm sure the Minutes when they appear will address this. Well, that's what I am getting at! There are small errors that give the wrong impression, and yet this document will be given the same treatment as the actual minutes. Who will go back and read the minutes after this has been posted? I'd like to hear what others think. Merrilee From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 13:32:48 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:32:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117100641.04376ea8@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0201171823510.12218-100000@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I have just updated the website with a much abbreviated and I think fairly uncontroversial announcement of the London proceedings which I hope no-one, not even Merrilee, could possibly take for official or unofficial minutes of the proceedings! http://www.tei-c.org/Publicity/postLondon.txt is the URL, and there is a link to it from the top level index page of the website. I took the opportunity also to move the link to the members list up the page while I was at it, as suggested on Saturday. Lou From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jan 17 15:57:53 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:57:53 +0100 Subject: Council's questions for the Board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C4748E1.23434.20F4FD7@localhost> From: John Unsworth <jmu2m at virginia.edu> > 1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of > the TEI web site? > The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council > might well need in order to do its job. The argument against was less > clear to me, at least--but I think it turned on the fact that TEI Council > members don't necessarily have to be subscribers or constituents of member > institutions. This comes down to the question whether TEI council members should be personally or via their organization members of the consortium, doesn't it. I think they should - at least as long as individual membership is priced as it is now. > 2. Should the TEI trademark its name? > > The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of > services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking > would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the > Consortium. I've a query into the lawyer here about whether he might help > with this, but I also know that it can be done online, at a cost of about $125. Yes, it should. In Germany at least names protected as trade marks will always have their way (legally) in questions like domain names etc. Fotis Jannidis From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 17 18:00:36 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:00:36 -0500 Subject: Council's questions for the Board In-Reply-To: <3C4748E1.23434.20F4FD7@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020117174119.01ccc9d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 09:57 PM 1/17/2002 +0100, you wrote: >This comes down to the question whether TEI council members should be >personally or via their organization members of the consortium, doesn't >it. I think they should - at >least as long as individual membership is priced as it is now. Actually, that question has already been decided, in the charter, which says, under "fundamental principles": "Participation in TEI-C activities should be open (even to non-members) at all levels" But I don't want to muddy the waters further: this is a question for the Board to decide; I cc'd the Council on the original mailing because I wanted you to know that, per our discussion, I had raised the question with them. John From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Fri Jan 18 12:06:54 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:06:54 -0800 Subject: EDW54 (please review) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020118084106.00af8e00@notes.rlg.org> This document generally seems good, here are my comments. I hope they are intelligible. Update status **Preamble (under toc before General), paragraph 2: I am not following the chartered bit. Shouldn't it be: "...TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI), external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and given a TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything in between). eliminating the redundancy and confusion of who is doing the chartering -- in TEI terms, the TEI is doing the chartering, even if direction also coming from some other source. Knock out the bit about ", gleaned from the authors' experience in work group meetings both inside and outside the TEI." (sounds a bit preachy). **Under General, first paragraph: Do work groups get appointed by board under recommendation by the council, or simply by the council? The bylaw say that we "have the power to create working groups." This paragraph should also introduce the concept of some work items going away because other, better, standards have come along and may be used instead (MathML or tables being examples). **Membership: Question: why should membership distribution requirements be waived in the case of externally-funded work? **Documents: Well, should there be an expiration date for documents? What about the boilerplate text? What goes here? Include a link to TEI A1 and TEI ED W55 (and maybe titles of documents, as was done with TEI ED W48?). <p>**Overall: Update URLs Is it work group or Work Group? Should be consistent. TEI Guidelines or TEI <title>Guidelines? Clarification as to who funds editors'/an editor's travel to work group meetings.

At 03:22 PM 1/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI >workgroups), which can be found at: > >http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm > >We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within >the week. > >John From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Fri Jan 18 16:32:00 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:32:00 -0500 Subject: Minutes v.1 Message-ID: TEI-C Council Meeting, Jan. 12th, 2002 Minutes v.1 by Geoffrey Rockwell with thanks to Merrillee Proffitt who provided her e-notes to me. Attending: Christian Wittern, Perry Willett, Geoffrey Rockwell, Sebastian Rahtz (board representative), Merrilee Proffitt, Syd Bauman (editor), Matthew Driscoll, Lou Burnard (editor), John Unsworth (chair), David Durand, Laurent Romary 1. Initial Disicussion 1.1 It was agreed that Geoffrey Rockwell would take notes. 1.2 John Unsworth provided an update on the Consortium. The 2002 budget (handed out in Pisa) predicted 57 members and 50 subscribers. We now have 49 members so we are on track. Total anticipated income $357K. $16K budgeted for workgroups (separate from monies spelled out in NEH grant). 1.3 There was a suggestion that the list of institutional members be moved to a more prominent spot in the web site as that is what impresses administrators when one is making the case that your institution should be a member. Lou Burnard said he would look into that. [Action Item - AI 1] 1.4 We reviewed the TEI-C Council Terms of Reference. Our priorities are to oversee changes and long range planning. 2. Review of P4 2.1 Lou Burnard provided an update. 148 changes from the sublime to the enormous, 6 outstanding issues. It is still the intention of the changes to not break any existing documents. Lou and Syd will produce a list of outstanding problems. [AI 2] Character sets and WSD chapters need further work. (See below.) The system of producing documentation (ODD) has been streamlined so that P4 can be generated. The ODD system can generate DTDs, HTML, PDF, Pizza Chef, and simplified TEI. It cannot generate a TEI-Lite version of the P4 yet, but that is a possible outcome that might be implemented. [AI 3] We talked about how workgroups submit their work and how that integrates with ODD. This group should review procedures for submitting results of workgroups (EDW55 is the name of the work group guidelines document). [AI 4] 2.2 Element Parent Child Issue One of the issues that arose in Pisa was the issue of including for each element information about the element's parents and children. Various people at Pisa felt this was useful when using the paper guidelines. Lou felt this could be misleading since the relatives listed are not necessarily available. It was agreed that the parents and children should be included in the P4 in the manner they appear in P3. [AI 5] We voted on the issue: - 7 votes for P3-like text - 1 vote for dividing the information by tag set - 1 vote for leaving relatives out In the course of our discussion we discussed the possibility of providing a custom documentation tool that would produce a version of the Guidelines tailored to the project which could have the relevant relatives. While this is a good idea we felt the paper copy still needs P3-like relatives listed. [AI 6] 2.3 Call for changes for P3 to P4 The result of a call for changes to P4 didn't turn up much. Julia Flander's questionnaire had a question that may have turned up some P4 issues. We need to check with her. [AI 7] David Seaman may have some suggestions that he will forward to editors. The Ibsen suggestions seem more like P5 issues, since the intent of P4 was mostly to bring P3 into line with XML. Ibsen suggestions should be deferred to a group that will review "core" issues. John Unsworth or editors will respond to Ibsen folks. [AI 8] 2.4 What has to be done to finish P4 We reviewed what needs doing to finish the P4. There are three major tasks: 2.4.1 Including the information about parents and children back in (see 2.2) 2.4.2 A bunch of little things 2.4.3 Revising two chapters - the XML chapter and the Character Set chapter (see below for discussion of both.) 2.5 XML Chapter The Council was asked for input on chapter 2, esp. 2.11 which Lou felt gets dated quickly. We felt that 2.11 should stay and be updated with reference to the W3C, stylesheets, and pointers as to where to get more updated information. [AI 9] We had a discussion about URLs and how to include them. Some of the hacks mentioned included adding a URL attribute to xptr, xref, and figure (Sebastian's hack). We wondered if we should have a web page of hacks captured in the wild? We agreed that the editors will look at this and that a note will be included in chapter 14 that mentions Sepastian's hack. A proper solution will have to wait for P5 and solutions from W3C. [AI 10] 2.6 Character Sets - Chapter 4 Christian summarized the work on chapter 4. The working group found it difficult to deal with both the SGML and XML issues around character sets. It was agreed that the chapter should concentrate on XML with notes about SGML where it differs. It was noted that the xml:lang attribute and the TEI lang attribute overlap but do different things so we need to keep the TEI lang attribute. The title of the chapter might be changed to "Languages and Character Sets". Issues with the WSD also need to be dealt with. An appendix of all the acronyms would be useful along with examples of the differences between character and glyph. In short the chapter needs work. The editors will return an edited version of the chapter quickly (end of Feb.) to the working group which will then try to get it back to the editors by the end of March. [AI 11] 2.7 Printing P4 We discussed when the P4 will go to print and how it will be printed. Lou estimated 3 months to finish the P4. John is going to try to get an estimate for print-on-demand costs so that we can compare that method to massive print job of 1000 copies. [AI 12] No CD will be published. The schedule now is: End of Feb. - Draft sent out (with Character Set chapter rewrite) End of March - Comments solicited for no later than end of March. 3. P5 3.1 We had a general discussion of P5. We will not be constrained by trying to avoid breaking documents in development of P5. This led to question as to what should happen with P4 when P5 comes out and what we should say about the life span of P4. Do we freeze the P4 or accept only corrections for a fixed amount of time? We need to provide guidance to people who want to send suggestions. Sebastian felt we should keep P4 around for 5 years (after P5 comes out), support software (Pizza Chef) and fix things that are actually broken for that period. The question was raised as to whether we should say that P4 was the last to support SGML. Lou and Sebastian didn't want to go that far but it was felt we could suggest that new users use XML. We agreed that we don't need to make announcements about the future status of P4 until P5 is out. 3.2 We had a discussion about whether TEI-C Council members who were not TEI members could have access to the member's area. John is going to e-mail the board about this but believes they need access in order to do their work. [AI 13] 3.3 Lou reported on the areas where people had suggestions for P5. His list is based on a talk he gave in Pisa (the slides for which are up in the members area of the web site.) We fiddled a bit with the areas and decided on the following list of possible areas for work for P5: 3.3.1 Character Encoding 3.3.2 Core Tags and Schemas 3.3.3 Metadata and Miniheaders 3.3.4 Source Description 3.3.5 Transcription of Primary Sources 3.3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr 3.3.8 Term Banks, Dictionaries and Ontologies 3.3.9 Tags for Authoring 3.3.10 Multimodal Communicative Acts 3.3.11 Metrical Annotation 3.3.12 Image and Multimedia Annotation We first agreed that 3.3.2 was the business of the whole Council so we removed it. We then went through a process of selecting our top 2 issues to be dealt with by a workgroup. The two that got the most votes were Character Encoding and Stand-off Markup, Xlink and Xpntr. In the second round of voting the two issues that got the most votes of the remaining issues were Metadata and Miniheaders and Transcription of Primary Sources. Thus we have the following priority sequence: 3.3.2 - Core Tags and Schemas - For the entire council 3.3.1 - Character Encoding 3.3.6 - Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr 3.3.3 - Metadata and Miniheaders 3.3.5 - Transcription of Primary Sources The general strategy for P5 is: - Look at what the W3C is doing first - Don't do things that others have developed standards for (like math) - Commission workgroups for what is left over We agreed to commission two workgroups (given the money we have). 3.4 Character Encoding Christian Wittern was voted chair of the Character Encoding workgroup. The workgroup gets a budget of US $8,000. The workgroup has a term of one year and should meet at least once. The membership is up to the chair. The workgroup should report at the Oct. 11th meeting. Their task is to rewrite chapters 4 and 25 - to reconsider the subject of character encoding and writing system declarations. A workplan is called for by the end of April, preliminary report in October, and final report in January of 2003. [AI 14] 3.5 EDW 54 There is a document (EDW 54) on how to make workgroups work. We need to all review this and send suggestions to editors. [AI 15] 3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr We commissioned a workgroup on Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr with David Durand as chair. David has the same schedule with the additional request that he inform us by the end of February as to who the members are. This workgroup will also have a budget of US $8,000. [AI 16] For the recond it was mentioned that one editor should attend each workgroup meeting. 4. NEH Grant John updated us on the NEH grant. The funding came in May. There was a problem with the TEI tax status so it is the University of Virginia that administers the grant. The expenses have to be billed over a 2 year period. The main thing the Council had to do was select people for task 2 (SGML to XML TEI texts conversion.) We came up with a list of names for the 6 experts: John Price-Wilkins, Wendell Piez, Michael Popham, Jessica Perry Hekman, Sue Fisher, David McKelvie, Frank Tompa We decided that John should contact John Price-Wilkins and see if he would chair the group. If he agrees he should then be provided with our suggestions for names, but allowed to select his team. [AI 17] We also came up with a list of possible people for the 10 who have experience with SGML texts that need converting. This list will be passed to John PW. Julia Flanders, Lealle Fredland, Perry Willett, Louis Barch, Perseus Project, Nancy Kushigion, Thoma Erjavec, Peter Flynn, Slave Narratives Project, Sebastian Rahtz We would recommend to the chair of this project that he/she make a open call for groups with significant TEI SGML holdings who want to participate. The chair, who we hope will be John PW, should be provided with a schedule that includes a report to the board in May. [AI 18] 5. Estate Grant We discussed the request from the Estate project to write a letter of support for their grant proposal and approved it. The proposal is to develop TEI tranining, deliver it in Europe, and support two workgroups. We discussed the issues around the protocol of other groups running TEI workgroups. John U will contact the leader of Estate and clarrify the language in the grant. We did feel this grant proposal was worth supporting as it will not only develop and deliver TEI training, but it will also pay for workgroups we cannot afford. Anyone who is interested in the grant should look at the proposal and get comments back to John as soon as possible. [AI 19] 6. Other Business 6.1 Training We discussed training and whether TEI should certify training or develop training. We decided to form a committee made up of Geoffrey Rockwell, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, and Sebastian Rahtz. The committee should look at existing training and develop a training strategy for the TEI. The committee should consider the question of what people are willing to pay? [AI 20] 6.2 Certification for Tools and Texts We discussed certifying Tools and Texts. To be able to certify things we may need to trademark a name and/or logo. John will look into that [AI 21] We decided that a committee should look generally into the issue of the TEI providing consulting. The members of the committee will be Matthew Driscoll, Merrillee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary. They will develop a consulting strategy for the TEI which could include consulting on software or texts. [AI 22] 6.3 Copyright We discussed getting copyright clearance from all workgroups and Council members. John will work with lawyers to develop such a document and we will all have to sign it. This is to ensure that the TEI-C has a license to use all the materials developed for it. [AI 23] 6.4 The next meeting may be Oct. 11 in Chicago depending on funding. Rockwell was asked when these minutes would be ready and promised them for Friday. Please send corrections directly to Geoffrey Rockwell (grockwel at mcmaster.ca) and I will send out a corrected version. From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jan 18 17:28:51 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:28:51 +0100 Subject: EDW54 (please review) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C48AFB3.17104.2B9C9EE@localhost> just a few comments / proposals: "(The TRC may discharge work groups which are making no progress on their work items, in order to be able to form a new work group which will, it is hoped, have greater success.)" Maybe the guidelines for discharging a working group should be more formalized; this way it is a rather formal process to decide whether a working group should be discharged and nothing personal. Something like: The TRC should discharge work groups which are inactive for a year or longer; a working group is inactive if in this time it doesn't publish a working paper or a working draft or if there are no reports to the TEI's technical review committee. -------------- "those listed as full members of the work group will be named in the acknowledgements to the Guidelines" I am not sure I understand the difference between a full member and a (temporary?) member. If I understand it correctly in the rest of this section, the text is always talking about "full member" and maybe this should be done explicitly. -------------- "Members of work groups may attend (at their own expense) meetings of any TEI work group; they may participate in the discussion if allowed by the head of the host work group." This seems to be a contradiction to the rule, that all TEI members have a right to participate in work group discussions: "All participants in the TEI (members of the TEI executive committee, members of the TRC, members and heads of other work groups, and the official representatives of affiliated projects) have a right to attend work group meetings (at their own cost), and participate in the discussion." So the second part of the sentence in the first quote could be deleted. -------------- "Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file servers; TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants by the TEI central secretariat upon request." replace with: "TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants in the members only section of the TEI file servers." -------------- "In particular, the status description should indicate:" add: If there exists one, a link should be added which points to an earlier paper on this subject created by this working group or handed in by some external group. (Quite like the w3c recommendations). Maybe the status information should be included into the completed text of the guidelines to allow backtracking of changes and discussions? -------------- The TEI should offer a defined way to make a public comment on some working draft or part of the guidelines (maybe there is one already?). => Include in the boilerplate of each working draft and into the section [Front matter] of the complete guidelines something like "Comments on this specification may be sent to [list at name]; archives of the comments are available." list at name can be TEI-L or TEI-TECH and there should be some specified way how to mark in the subject line what part of the guidelines, what working draft or what paper is addressed by this comment. Example: Subj.: [The TEI Header] comment -------------- "The head of the work group must file a written progress report with the TEI executive committee every six months." Is this report supposed to be public (+1)? Or only accessible by TEI members? -------------- "Some work groups avoid tagging specific examples because the members don't feel comfortable with SGML tagging. [...], but you do need at least that much." Replace this paragraph with something like "All work groups should provide simple examples for each feature (element, attribute etc.) discussed." The w3c has the policy to promote a recommendation from the status 'candidate recommendation' to 'recommendation' only if there is at least one full implementation. This kind of reality check sounds like a good idea.

Fotis Jannidis From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 19 12:03:09 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:03:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: Minutes v.1 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just a clarification (additional to some more detailed nit picking which I have sent direct to Geoffrey) The document describing workgroup practices is TEI EDW54 (http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm) not EDW55 as Geoffrey suggested. Document EDW55 is also relevant (it documents the "Form for Draft Chapters of the TEI Guidelines", which in an ideal world workgroups will use to prepare their drafts) but it isn't the one the Council needs to review urgently. I have received several useful comments already (from Fotis and from Merillee) on the right document, so this clarification is probably supererogatory (dont often get a chance to use that word). Lou From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Tue Jan 22 15:36:52 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:36:52 -0500 Subject: Minutes v1.2 Message-ID: TEI-C Council Meeting, Jan. 12th, 2002 Minutes v1.2 by Geoffrey Rockwell with thanks to Merrilee Proffitt who provided her e-notes to me. V.2 is based on suggestions from M. Proffitt and Lou Burnard. Document Number: TEI TC M 01 Attending: Christian Wittern, Perry Willett, Geoffrey Rockwell, Sebastian Rahtz (board representative), Merrilee Proffitt, Syd Bauman (editor), Matthew Driscoll, Lou Burnard (editor), John Unsworth (chair), David Durand, Laurent Romary 1. Initial Discussion 1.1 It was agreed that Geoffrey Rockwell would take notes. 1.2 John Unsworth provided an update on the Consortium. The 2002 budget (handed out in Pisa) predicted 57 members and 50 subscribers. We now have 49 members so we are on track. Total anticipated income $357K. $16K budgeted for workgroups (separate from monies spelled out in NEH grant). 1.3 There was a suggestion that the list of institutional members be moved to a more prominent spot in the web site as that is what impresses administrators when one is making the case that your institution should be a member. Lou Burnard said he would look into that. LBMove list of institutional members up near top of web site. 1.4 We reviewed the TEI-C Council Terms of Reference. Our priorities are to oversee changes and long range planning. 2. Review of P4 2.1 Lou Burnard provided an update. 148 changes from the sublime to the enormous, 6 outstanding issues. It is still the intention of the changes to not break any existing documents. Lou and Syd will produce a list of outstanding problems. eidtorsProduce list of outstanding problems. The chapters of Character sets and WSDs need considerable revision (see below). The revised ODD system can now generate DTDs, data files used by the pizza chef, and HTML or PDF versions of the text of the Guidelines. It has not yet been enhanced to produce a TEIxlite version of the text but this is an option under consideration. LB said that it was important that such a version should not be regarded as a revisable source of the Guidelines. LB or SRPossibly revise ODD to be able to produce TEIxLite version of P4. We talked about how workgroups submit their work and how that integrates with ODD. There is a document (EDW55) that describes how draft chapters should be submitted which this group can look at, but there is no urgency to reviewing this (unlike the urgency to reviewing EDW54 - see below.) TEI-C CouncilReview EDW55 - Low priority compared to review of EDW54 2.2 Element Parent Child Issue One of the issues that arose in Pisa was whether or not to include for each element information about the element's parents and children. Various people at Pisa felt this was useful when using the paper guidelines. Lou felt this could be misleading since the relatives listed are not necessarily available. It was agreed that the parents and children should be included in the P4 in the manner they appear in P3. Editors with help from SRAdd relative information to P4. We voted on the issue: - 7 votes for P3-like text - 1 vote for dividing the information by tag set - 1 vote for leaving relatives out In the course of our discussion we discussed the possibility of providing a custom documentation tool that would produce a version of the Guidelines tailored to the project which could have the relevant relatives. SR?Develop online tool for creating custom documentation. While this is a good idea we felt the paper copy still needs P3-like relatives listed. 2.3 Call for changes for P3 to P4 The result of a call for changes to P4 didn't turn up much. Julia Flander's questionnaire had a question that may have turned up some P4 issues. John U should check with her. JUCheck with Julia about questionnaire. David Seaman may have some suggestions that he will forward to editors. The Ibsen suggestions seem more like P5 issues, since the intent of P4 was mostly to bring P3 into line with XML. Ibsen suggestions should be deferred to a group that will review "core" issues. Editors will respond to Ibsen folks. EditorsRespond to Ibsen folks. 2.4 What has to be done to finish P4 We reviewed what needs doing to finish the P4. There are three major tasks: 2.4.1 Including the information about parents and children back in (see 2.2) 2.4.2 A bunch of little things 2.4.3 Revising two chapters - the XML chapter and the Character Set chapter (see below for discussion of both.) 2.5 XML Chapter The Council was asked for input on chapter 2, esp. 2.11 which Lou felt gets dated quickly. We felt that 2.11 should stay and be updated with reference to the W3C, stylesheets, and pointers as to where to get more updated information. LBUpdate chapter 2. We had a discussion about URLs and how to include them. Some of the hacks mentioned included adding a URL attribute to xptr, xref, and figure (Sebastian's hack). We wondered if we should have a web page of hacks captured in the wild? We agreed that the editors will look at this and that a note will be included in chapter 14 that mentions Sepastian's hack. A proper solution will have to wait for P5 and solutions from W3C. Editors with help from SRAdd notes to P4 that mention issue of urls and provide SR's hack. 2.6 Character Sets - Chapter 4 Christian summarized the work on chapter 4. The working group found it difficult to deal with both the SGML and XML issues around character sets. It was agreed that the chapter should concentrate on XML with notes about SGML where it differs. It was noted that the xml:lang attribute and the TEI lang attribute overlap but do different things so we need to keep the TEI lang attribute. The title of the chapter might be changed to "Languages and Character Sets". Issues with the WSD also need to be dealt with. An appendix of all the acronyms would be useful along with examples of the differences between character and glyph. In short the chapter needs work. The editors will return an edited version of the chapter quickly (end of Feb.) to the working group which will then try to get it back to the editors by the end of March. Editors and CWReturn edited version of chapter 4. CW and workgroup will then review changes. 2.7 Printing P4 We discussed when P4 will go to print and how it will be printed. Lou estimated 3 months to finish the P4. John is going to try to get an estimate for print-on-demand costs so that we can compare that method to massive print job of 1000 copies. JUCheck about on-demand printing costs. No CD with Dynatext version will be published. The schedule now is: End of Feb. - Draft sent out (with Character Set chapter rewrite) End of March - Comments solicited for no later than end of March. 3. P5 3.1 We had a general discussion of P5. We will not be constrained by trying to avoid breaking existing TEI-conformant documents in development of P5. This led to question as to what should happen with P4 when P5 comes out and what we should say about the life span of P4. Do we freeze P4 or accept only corrections for a fixed amount of time? We need to provide guidance to people who want to send suggestions. Sebastian felt we should keep P4 around for 5 years (after P5 comes out), support software (Pizza Chef) and fix things that are actually broken for that period. The question was raised as to whether we should say that P4 was the last to support SGML. Lou and Sebastian didn't want to go that far but it was felt we could suggest that new users use XML. We agreed that we don't need to make announcements about the future status of P4 until P5 is out. 3.2 We had a discussion about whether TEI-C Council members who were not TEI members could have access to the member's area. John is going to e-mail the board about this but believes they need access in order to do their work. JUCheck with board on issue of council member access to member area of web site. 3.3 Lou reported on the areas where people had suggestions for P5. His list is based on a talk he gave in Pisa (see http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2001-Pisa/.) We discussed Lou's list and decided on the following possible areas for work for P5: 3.3.1 Character Encoding 3.3.2 Core Tags and Schemas 3.3.3 Metadata and Miniheaders 3.3.4 Source Description 3.3.5 Transcription of Primary Sources 3.3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr 3.3.8 Term Banks, Dictionaries and Ontologies 3.3.9 Tags for Authoring 3.3.10 Multimodal Communicative Acts 3.3.11 Metrical Annotation 3.3.12 Image and Multimedia Annotation We first agreed that 3.3.2 was the business of the whole Council so we removed it. We then went through a process of selecting our top 2 issues to be dealt with by a workgroup. The two that got the most votes were Character Encoding and Stand-off Markup, Xlink and Xpntr. In the second round of voting the two issues that got the most votes of the remaining issues were Metadata and Miniheaders and Transcription of Primary Sources. Thus we have the following priority sequence: 3.3.2 - Core Tags and Schemas - For the entire council 3.3.1 - Character Encoding 3.3.6 - Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr 3.3.3 - Metadata and Miniheaders 3.3.5 - Transcription of Primary Sources 3.3.6 - Source Description The general strategy for P5 is: - Look at what the W3C is doing first - Don't do things that others have developed standards for (like mathematics) - Commission workgroups for what is left over We agreed to commission two workgroups (given the money we have). 3.4 Character Encoding Christian Wittern was voted chair of the Character Encoding workgroup. The workgroup gets a budget of US $8,000. The workgroup has the immediate task of working with the editors to rewrite chapters 4 and 25 and this will involve the existing members and can be considered a continuation of their current work. (See above [AI 11].) Once done with the P4 chapters the workgroup has is renewed for a term of one year and should meet at least once. The new membership is up to the chair. The workgroup should report at the Oct. 11th meeting. Their task is to review the proposals in extenso and propose revisions to the way character encoding is handled in general. This will involve a rewrite of chapters 4 and 25 - to reconsider the subject of character encoding and writing system declarations. A workplan is called for by the end of April, preliminary report in October, and final report in January of 2003. CWCreate Character Encoding workgroup and keep int on schedule. 3.5 EDW 54 There is a document (EDW 54) on how to make workgroups work. We need to all review this and send suggestions to editors. TEI-C CouncilReview document EDW54. 3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr We commissioned a workgroup on Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr with David Durand as chair. David has the same schedule with the additional request that he inform us by the end of February as to who the members are. This workgroup will also have a budget of US $8,000. We do not have a formal charge for this group; one should be drawn up. DDCreate workgroup and keep it on schedule. For the record it was mentioned that one editor should attend each workgroup meeting. 4. NEH Grant John updated us on the NEH grant. The funding came in May. There was a problem with the TEI tax status so it is the University of Virginia that administers the grant. The expenses have to be billed over a 2 year period. The main thing the Council had to do was select people for task 2 (SGML to XML TEI texts conversion.) We came up with a list of names for the 6 experts: John Price-Wilkin, Wendell Piez, Michael Popham, Jessica Perry Hekman, Sue Fisher, David McKelvie, Frank Tompa We decided that John should contact John Price-Wilkin and see if he would chair the group. If he agrees he should then be provided with our suggestions for names, but allowed to select his team. JUContact J P-W about heading group. We also came up with a list of possible people for the 10 who have experience with SGML texts that need converting. This list will be passed to John PW. Julia Flanders, Lee-Ellen Friedland, Perry Willett, Louis Barth, Perseus Project, Nancy Kushigian, Tomasz Erjavec, Slave Narratives Project - Natalia (Natasha) Smith, Peter Flynn, Sebastian Rahtz We would recommend to the chair of this project that he/she make a open call for groups with significant TEI SGML holdings who want to participate. The chair, who we hope will be John PW, should be provided with a schedule that includes a report to the board in May. [JU and chair of NEH groupProvide chair with schedule and chair needs to keep to it. 5. ESTATE Grant We discussed the request from the ESTATE project to write a letter of support for their grant proposal and approved it. The proposal is to develop TEI training, deliver it in Europe, and support two workgroups. We discussed the issues around the protocol of other groups running TEI workgroups. John U will contact the leader of Estate and clarify the language in the grant. We did feel this grant proposal was worth supporting as it will not only develop and deliver TEI training, but it will also pay for workgroups we cannot afford. Anyone who is interested in the grant should look at the proposal and get comments back to John as soon as possible. JUWork with ESTATE people to improve grant proposal and write letter of support. 6. Other Business 6.1 Training We discussed training and whether TEI should certify training or develop training. We decided to form a committee made up of Geoffrey Rockwell, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, and Sebastian Rahtz. The committee should look at existing training and develop a training strategy for the TEI. The committee should consider the question of what people are willing to pay? Training Comm = GR, JF, PW, SRReview TEI training and report back with strategy. 6.2 Certification for Tools and Texts We discussed certifying Tools and Texts. To be able to certify things we may need to trademark a name and/or logo. John will look into that JULook into getting trademark for TEI. We decided that a committee should look generally into the issue of the TEI providing consulting. The members of the committee will be Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary. They will develop a consulting strategy for the TEI which could include consulting on software or texts. Consulting Comm = MD, MP, LRReview and propose strategy for TEI consulting and certification. 6.3 Copyright We discussed getting copyright clearance from all workgroups and Council members. John will work with lawyers to develop such a document and we will all have to sign it. This is to ensure that the TEI-C has a license to use all the materials developed for it. JUDevelop copyright license doc and get us all to sign it. 6.4 The next meeting may be Oct. 11 in Chicago depending on funding. Rockwell was asked when these minutes would be ready and promised them for Friday.

Please send final corrections directly to Geoffrey Rockwell (grockwel at mcmaster.ca) and I will send out a corrected version. -- From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Jan 24 10:50:22 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:50:22 -0500 Subject: question In-Reply-To: <3C3F1084.28710.1FC02D4@localhost> Message-ID: <15440.11582.895493.170410@mama.stg.brown.edu> Has no one responded to this yet?

> maybe this is something for the agenda tomorrow: Sadly this wasn't in time to be discussed at length; many of us did not get to read your mail until after the meeting.

> A group of German historians are considering to develop a dtd for > the transcription of historical sources. They want to collaborate > with the TEI. As far as I can see, this is very much in the > beginning, but it poses a general question: how to cooperate in the > most fruitful way. Is the TEI generally trying to cooperate as > closely as possible in order to incorporate special demands like > this into the TEI recommendations? I have no idea of our official policies, if any, in this area. But IMHO we probably don't want to get too tangled up into special- purpose "demands" (although providing consulting is another issue being considered by a Council committee), but the transcription of historical sources doesn't seem all that special-purpose to me. Not that I've ever read a German historian's historical source, but it seems like, in general, we'd like to support use of TEI by historians just as much as we support it's use by literature scholars. (In fact, "historical analysis and interpretation" is listed as an area for expected future work, although I have to admit I'm not certain what that means. See the last few paragraphs of Chapter 1.)

> They asked me some special questions which I have to forward to you: > - How are new working groups established? Council decides.

> - Is there a level of discussion of TEI extensions more formally > than the discussion lists, but not as formally as the working > groups? I think the answer is "no", but I would like TEI-TECH to become, if not more formal, at least more in-depth place for exactly such discussions. Searchable archives do exist for both TEI-L (theorhet- ically non-technical, but lots of technical discussions occur, which is fine) and TEI-TECH.

> As the proposed work is rather in the domain of the TEI section on > the "Transcription of Primary Sources" I guess they also want to > know how to cooperate with a working group. Pobably show up at a working group meeting with a case of local German beer :-) Seriously, if there is a working group, there already are rules for guests if I recall correctly (I will get to EDW54 shortly ...). If we don't have a working group for what an outside group wants, it seems to me we should encourage them to petition the Council for such a working group, preferably with funding.

> A more general idea in this context: Should the TEI offer to host > extensions to the TEI (which use the extension mechanism) which > have been developed by some project? In projects like perl the > module archive does offer everybody working with perl access to > tested code and some modules are becoming part of the standard > distribution after a while. On the other side: Maybe the extensions > are most of the time so specific that they wouldn't be worthwhile > sharing. While I can see lots of details that need to be worked out (do we review the extensions or certify them "compliant"? Do we provide the files themselves or just pointers? Do we include changes to the TEI DTDs that are not done properly via extension files? Do we require documentation of any extensions we include? Not to mention the wording of the disclaimer), I think this is an excellent idea.

Sorry you weren't able to make it to London. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Jan 26 20:49:04 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:49:04 -0500 Subject: Steve DeRose Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126204536.01cec430@pop3.norton.antivirus> Board and Council members, Steve DeRose has written me to say that he's not going to come back as TEI editor, though he remains interested in the work of the TEI and would be happy to consult from time to time, and to share the work he's doing with the Bible Technologies Group, developing schemas and formal canonical reference systems for Bibles and related texts. I will suggest to the Board that we formally appoint Syd as North American Editor. John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 27 17:18:22 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:18:22 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126204536.01cec430@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Thanks to Stuart's stalwart efforts, HTML and XML versions of Geoffrey's equally stalwart minutes from the Council meeting are now visible at http://janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Drafts/tcm01.html I will move them to the main website shortly, unless anyone objects.

Lou From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 29 12:05:51 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:05:51 +0000 (GMT) Subject: New drafts on web Message-ID: I have just updated the TEI website as follows... - new versions of P4X (all formats) [several minor format errors fixed; further revisions to XML intro chapter; parents/children lists requested at London meeting of TEI Council] - draft versions of edw54 (workgroup practices), edw72 (charge to charset wg), and tcm01 (minutes of tc) are now accessible from the Members area Stand by for an announcement of the first ever TEI Newsletter... Lou From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Tue Jan 29 14:16:26 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:16:26 -0500 Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Stuart and Lou, they look great. Geoffrey R. >Thanks to Stuart's stalwart efforts, HTML and XML versions of Geoffrey's >equally stalwart minutes from the Council meeting are now visible at > >http://janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Drafts/tcm01.html > >I will move them to the main website shortly, unless anyone objects. > > >Lou

-- From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 29 15:59:58 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:59:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: new EDW54 changes list (fwd) Message-ID: Here's a brief report (prepared by Syd) on the changes made by the editors in response to comments on edw54 from Council members There are undoubtedly further issues to be discussed/resolved but it would be good to know whether the council as a whole now feels it can endorse the content of this document as the way forward. At some point soon the Council should also review the "charge" for the charsets working group and specify any changes required in that. And we also need to draft a charge for the group which it was agreed to charter on xlinkage. But right now, we editors are focussing our attentions on P4! Lou And Syd

----- Changed file to XML. Changed "ACH/ACL/ALLC Text Encoding Initiative" to "Text Encoding Initiative Consortium" in the in in . From: Tomaz Erjavec > 1. The preamble obviously needs to be changed. Done. > 2. Everywhere "TEI executive committee" and "TRC" should be changed to > "TEI-C Council" Done (except in "Status:", where it really does refer to the now extinct body). > 3. Does "(TEI central) secretariat" still exist or should it be changed > to (TEI-C) secretary"? In general changed to "TEI Consortium secretary". > 4 "TEI participants" to "TEI-C members" (& board?) (&other WG > members?) In general this was changed to "TEI Consortium members". > 5. I guess it should be stated whether members/heads of WGs have to be > members of the consortium, and, like the council, whether they have > access to the members' web space. I'd suggest no and yes. Added "Being a Consortium member is not a prerequisite for serving on a work group." under 'Membership'. I think by now we're settled on the web space issue: non-Consortium members do not have access to the 'members only' area of the web space, regardless of what other rela- tionship they have with TEI. Since it makes perfect sense that non- Consortium members might need access to some particular documents, and because in all other cases requests for documents were sent to what was then the central secretariat, I've added a clause to that effect. See below. > 6. SGML to XML... Done.

From: Merrilee Proffitt > "... TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI), > external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and > given a TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything > in between)." Changed. > Knock out the bit about ", gleaned from the authors' experience in > work group meetings both inside and outside the TEI." Clause deleted. > Do work groups get appointed by board under recommendation by the > council, or simply by the council? The bylaw say that we [the Council] > "have the power to create working groups." Our understanding is that WGs get appointed simply by the Council. > This paragraph should also introduce the concept of some work items > going away because other, better, standards have come along and may > be used instead (MathML or tables being examples). I'm afraid I don't see why this document (about WG procedures) should introduce concepts of WG results. Stet. > **Membership: > Question: why should membership distribution requirements be waived in the > case of externally-funded work? I believe this is so we do not feel compelled to turn down funding from the Canadian Committee on Excluding Europeans from Text Encoding (although perhaps we would turn down their funding anyway). > **Documents: > Well, should there be an expiration date for documents? Good question. I [Syd] am inclined to say that boilerplate text should be provided for when there is an expiration date, but that in general WG documents should not have one. There may be exceptions, though, e.g., when a WG document exists to say "this is how we're going to do it until so-and-so publishes a different standard". ++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now. > What about the boilerplate text? What goes here? Good question. It appears we've survived for years without it, although it's not a bad idea. Anyone want to make suggestions? ++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now. > Include a link to TEI A1 and TEI ED W55 (and maybe titles of > documents, as was done with TEI ED W48?). Done. > **Overall: > Update URLs Are there more than 1? I updated the one I found to point to main tei-c.org page. > Is it work group or Work Group? Should be consistent. Changed three inappropriate occurences of "Work Group" to "work group". > TEI Guidelines or TEI Guidelines? The latter. Fixed. > Clarification as to who funds editors'/an editor's travel to work group > meetings. Good question. As long as it's not the editor, it's fine with me :-) Seriously, I think we shouldn't state that the TEI pays for the editors' attendance in the hopes that we can more easily obtain outside funding for their attendance.

From: Fotis Jannidis > "(The TRC may discharge work groups which are making no progress on > their work items, in order to be able to form a new work group which > will, it is hoped, have greater success.)" > > Maybe the guidelines for discharging a working group should be more > formalized; this way it is a rather formal process to decide > whether a working group should be discharged and nothing > personal. Something like: The TRC should discharge work groups > which are inactive for a year or longer; a working group is > inactive if in this time it doesn't publish a working paper or a > working draft or if there are no reports to the TEI's technical > review committee. I [Lou] thought the idea was that WGs were chartered for a maximum period of one year at a time. In otherwords, every time the WG reports to the Council, the Council extends (or doesn't) extend its life: nothing to do with publishing papers or reports or any other metric. The WG head reports every 6 months, right? We've moved the clause stating this up front, under "general" (it was lost down in the text before), and revised following text to read:

The head of a work group should file a written progress report with the TEI Council every six months, or other regular interval agreed when the group is chartered. This report will form the basis on which the Council may renew the work group's charter.

The Council may discharge inactive work groups: a work group is deemed inactive if its head has failed to submit two consecutive reports by their due dates.

> "those listed as full members of the work group will be named in > the acknowledgements to the Guidelines" > I am not sure I understand the difference between a full member and > a (temporary?) member. If I understand it correctly in the rest of > this section, the text is always talking about "full member" and > maybe this should be done explicitly. I also am not sure I understand this difference (although it is possible that by "full member" the original authors meant "one who the TEI is willing to fund, whether actually funded or not"), but it seems to me that subsequent references to "member" in this section applies to any member of a work group. Stet. Note that this section takes care of the concern that work group members who are not consortium members would not have access to TEI internal documents (of which, btw, there are very few) -- work group members, "have the right to examine technical working papers internal to the TEI, and to comment on drafts prepared by other work groups". Which means a work group member who is not a Consortium member can see any draft of any technical work, but does not have a right to see a non-public draft of our budget, e.g. > "Members of work groups may attend (at their own expense) > meetings of any TEI work group; they may participate in the > discussion if allowed by the head of the host work group." > This seems to be a contradiction to the rule, that all TEI > members have a right to participate in work group discussions: > "All participants in the TEI (members of the TEI executive > committee, members of the TRC, members and heads of other work > groups, and the official representatives of affiliated projects) > have a right to attend work group meetings (at their own cost), > and participate in the discussion." > So the second part of the sentence in the first quote could be > deleted. Deleted, and appended "subject to limits set by the work group head" to the 'rule'. > "Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file servers; > TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants > by the TEI central secretariat upon request." > replace with: > "TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI > participants in the members only section of the TEI file > servers." Changed to Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file or web servers; TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI Consortium members in the members only section of the TEI web site; such technical documents will be made available to non-Consortium members of workgroups and the Council by the TEI Consortium secretary upon request. > "In particular, the status description should indicate:" > add: If there exists one, a link should be added which points to > an earlier paper on this subject created by this working group or > handed in by some external group. (Quite like the w3c > recommendations). Item added: bibliographic references or pointers to previous versions of the current paper, or other papers on the same subject, whether by this working group or handed into this working group by some external group > Maybe the status information should be included into the > completed text of the guidelines to allow backtracking of changes > and discussions? In general, no. By the time a paper has been incorporated into the Guidelines its status is known: it has been approved by the work group. A "paper" trail should be kept to allow review of changes and the discussions that led to them, but that trail is, and should be, kept in the working group papers, not in the Guidelines themselves. > The TEI should offer a defined way to make a public comment ... Agreed, but mostly out of the scope of this paper. Have added (In general such comments will be posted to TEI-L or TEI-TECH, but could certainly come from elsewhere.) with links from the list names to their main pages. > "The head of the work group must file a written progress report > with the TEI executive committee every six months." > Is this report supposed to be public (+1)? Or only accessible by > TEI members? We believe that left unsaid (as now), it is up to the work group head filing a report to give it either "public" or "internal" (i.e., TEI Consortium members only) status as the fourth of the five boilerplate status items. > "Some work groups avoid tagging specific examples because the > members don't feel comfortable with SGML tagging. [...], but you do > need at least that much." > Replace this paragraph with something like > "All work groups should provide simple examples for each feature > (element, attribute etc.) discussed." > The w3c has the policy to promote a recommendation from the status > 'candidate recommendation' to 'recommendation' only if there is at > least one full implementation. This kind of reality check sounds > like a good idea. While it is a good idea that there be at least one real-life encoding example, and it is also true that the odds of someone being on a work group and not being familiar with XML tagging has gone way down, the point of this paragraph is, I believe, that work groups should not fail to produce recommendations only because of infamiliarity with XML. The editors can help encode examples properly later. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 11:15:11 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:15:11 -0500 Subject: JPW Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131111346.01cc32c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for another candidate? John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 14:21:49 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:21:49 -0500 Subject: TEI training request Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I assume) with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September). He promises to put more advance publicity out, and expects a good turnout. Does the subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer? John From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Thu Jan 31 15:03:56 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:03:56 -0500 Subject: TEI training request In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Dear John, We have just convened and are discussing among ourselves the following process: 1. We should come up with a list of training materials (online and in > print) that we want to look at. > > 2. We agree on criteria for evaluating the materials. (I would say we > want to know the author, title, extent, accuracy, and publication > info for each item. Notes about the extent - what it trains you in > would be the most useful.) > > 3. We divide them up, review them, and compile a list of materials > with evaluation information. > > 4. We come up with a list of people we know are regularly providing > training to others on the TEI (training outside of a project.) > > 5. We contact these people and see if they are willing to answer some > questions about the training they provide and their experience. This > gets compiled. > > 6. We look at what we have and decide the strategy we want to > recommend to the Council. The strategy may be just to publish some > form of our list of materials and trainers along with a process for > updating the information. Or the strategy might be to design a > certification process. > > 7. We write up our proposed strategy and submit it at the Oct > meeting. (And promptly dissolve the subcommittee.) > I think it is a bit early for us to have a concrete suggestion, but we can discuss the request and get back to the Council. Yours, Geoffrey Rockwell

>Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I >assume) with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September). >He promises to put more advance publicity out, and expects a good >turnout. Does the subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer? > >John

-- From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 31 15:25:02 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:25:02 +0000 Subject: TEI training request In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020131202502.GI1548@spqr-dell> On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:21:49PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I assume) > with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September). He promises to > put more advance publicity out, and expects a good turnout. Does the > subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer? on the basis of 3 emails between us so far, I'd venture the guess "not much" or perhaps more helpfully "good idea" :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 16:01:28 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:01:28 -0500 Subject: new EDW54 changes list (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131155904.04ea9e88@pop3.norton.antivirus> Thanks to Council members for their comments, and to Lou and Syd for revising EDW54. Those of you chairing or assembling work-groups should circulate this document to work-group members. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 16:06:46 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:06:46 -0500 Subject: Council's questions for the board Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131160133.04eba3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Council members, The TEI Consortium Board has voted on the questions from the Council's recent meeting, and on the further question from the Chair as to the permanent appointment of Syd Bauman as North American Editor, replacing Steve DeRose, who has resigned. 1. Should TEI Council Members have access to the members-only web area? A majority of the Board voted yes, so this question is decided in the affirmative, but since a majority did not specifically endorse the idea of making Council members honorary subscribers for the term of their membership on the Council, they will simply be given the password to the members-only area of the web site. Username: tei Password: c0ns0rtium (note zero for the letter o in "c0ns0rtium")

2. Should the TEI trademark its name? A majority votes in favor of trademarking the name, but there were no really strong feelings in favor. A number of those voting in favor make it clear that this is not something the Consortium should spend a lot of money on. Further investigation with lawyers here suggests that, although an online trademark registration is relatively cheap ($125), registration through more conventional channels (with possibly more reliable service, in terms of research) is significantly more expensive (probably on the order of $500-$750. Therefore, we'll put this aside, at least until $750 doesn't seem like a lot of money.

3. Appointment of Syd Bauman as North American Editor, for a term of five years, beginning January 1, 2002. The board vote was unanimously in favor, and Syd is appointed.

John Unsworth, Chair From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri Feb 1 11:02:26 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:02:26 -0500 Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131111346.01cc32c0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu> > John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the > NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI > resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up > additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for > another candidate? No nominations, but some thoughts: - Steve DeRose - Allen Renear - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were) - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen - Susan Hockey - Marilyn Deegan - Terry Langendoen - Elli Mylonas - Harold Short - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb Lapeyere) I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a good candidate, but at least food for thought. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Feb 1 12:50:35 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:50:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Syd Bauman wrote: > > John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the > > NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI > > resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up > > additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for > > another candidate? > > No nominations, but some thoughts:

Rating each of these candidates H(igh) M(edium) L(ow) on the following criteria XML-expertise, TEI-expertise, and Availability, I get: > - Steve DeRose HHL > - Allen Renear MHM > - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were) ??? > - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen HHL > - Susan Hockey MMM > - Marilyn Deegan LLM > - Terry Langendoen LMM > - Elli Mylonas MMM > - Harold Short MMM > - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb > Lapeyere) HHM > > I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a > good candidate, but at least food for thought. > My conclusion: we want Tommie (or Debby) -- if we can we afford them. Wendell would be OK too (and would probably do the work if we chose either Debby or Tommie) but it would really be great to work with the Mulberryheads L From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Feb 1 11:46:03 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:46:03 +0000 Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020201164603.GC6151@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:02:26AM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote: > - Steve DeRose > - Allen Renear > - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were) > - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen > - Susan Hockey > - Marilyn Deegan > - Terry Langendoen > - Elli Mylonas > - Harold Short > - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb > Lapeyere) what is the thinking behind this list? ie what are the criteria for the chair? knowledge of TEI? of SGML to XML? experience in doing same? experience of chairing workgroups? my feeling is that we want someone with a stake in the subject, who actually wants to see the work done because they have vast corpora to convert. I fear that would rule out most of the list? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Fri Feb 1 12:16:49 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:16:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: Lee Ellen Friedland at Library of Congress has moved around more TEI-encoded bits (after JPW) than just about anyone else I know. The collections she works with tend not to have much encoding, granted, but they're big. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Syd Bauman wrote: > > John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the > > NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI > > resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up > > additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for > > another candidate? > > No nominations, but some thoughts: > > - Steve DeRose > - Allen Renear > - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were) > - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen > - Susan Hockey > - Marilyn Deegan > - Terry Langendoen > - Elli Mylonas > - Harold Short > - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb > Lapeyere) > > I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a > good candidate, but at least food for thought. > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Feb 1 18:07:17 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:07:17 -0500 Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Lee Ellen Friedland ....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice. So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to chair this workgroup? John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 2 06:52:58 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:52:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I don't have any objection to Lee Ellen per se, and the arguments in her favour are good ones: she should certainly be approached. But (you knew there was a "but" coming didnt you?) I do feel that the Council should consider being a little more open and accountable in the way this kind of procedure is carried out. Why should the council not issue a "call for participation", stating the intended scope of the work, and asking for expressions of interest? This is not only a matter of demonstrating that the TEI is not driven by insiders only, it's also a matter of making sure we don't miss out on possibly keen and active participation which we just don't happen to know about. I have been in this business for a very long time, and I am still agreeably surprised by the amount of TEI expertise there is out there in the wild. Issuing a call doesn't preclude the Council suggesting with whatever degree of force necessary to appropriate persons that they really ought to respond to said call. The council should then review the expressions of interest and select accordingly -- and it might be able to suggest to the chosen workgroup head some useful members for the group who might not otherwise have been available. Talking of the "intended scope", it's my belief that all official TEI-funded workgroups and bodies should have a publicly available charter setting out their scope of activity and terms of reference. This document should be prepared *before* the workgroup is set up, in consultation with the head of the group, and its acceptance by the council and the head should be a precondition for the existence of the group. If I am not alone in this belief, then someone needs to draft such a charge, both for this group (a few paras from the NEH proposal should do the job) and for the one we appointed under the custody of David Durand. And Christian should look at the existing one for the charset group to see how far it needs change.

Lou

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Lee Ellen Friedland > > ....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to > go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the > Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the > criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the > problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is > that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did > as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library > problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of > community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice. > > So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to > chair this workgroup? > > John > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Feb 2 10:10:47 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 10:10:47 -0500 Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020202100519.01d88e58@pop3.norton.antivirus> These are both good points, Lou, and the public call is a better procedure than proposing names and inviting people one by one. We can, in any case, send the call to Lee Ellen and others individually, as well as posting it to TEI-L, the Etext Center list, Humanist, etc. And the charter for workgroups is another sensible suggestion. I think it probably falls to me to draft these things, so I'll do that, and circulate them to this list shortly for comment. John From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sat Feb 2 19:22:16 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 19:22:16 -0500 Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15452.33464.189860.522114@mama.stg.brown.edu> Cheers to Geoffrey for writing, and to Stuart and Lou for convert- ing so nicely the meeting minutes. We might do well to package up TCM.dtd, TCM.ent, and the stylesheets used to generate HTML as a "TEI for meeting minutes" package. The first sentence of the 2nd para of 2.1 "Review of P4" is missing a bit: the changes Lou listed (148 done, 6 outstanding -- of which Lou & I solved a few the following Monday in Oxford) were changes made *to examples* (i.e., not to the prose or DTD) *since Pisa* in an attempt to ensure that all examples that are supposed to be valid TEI XML are so. There have certainly been other changes, too, but we haven't kept as detailed track of them. (We don't generally keep detailed track of changes except, of course, that Perforce, the version control system, keeps track of each & every one.) Section 2.2, "Element Parent Child Issue" makes no mention of the "wasted paper" objec- tion.[1] The 2nd item of the general strategy for P5 list makes it sound like we won't look at isues for which there already exist guidelines or standards. My understanding is that we would look at such issues with the hope of finding that the available guidelines or standards are useful in our context, and thus not need to reinvent a wheel. But certainly there may well be areas for which the relavant standard does not apply to our users. E.g., it may turn out that MathML is quite useful for writing modern equations to be typeset, but not nearly so useful for encoding the works of 17th century mathema- ticians. Notes ----- [1] A tangent, not for the minutes: I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows how to easily get customized parent and children lists. After simply loading a TEI file in Emacs/psgml mode (you do use Emacs with psgml, don't you?), enter the sgml-list-content-elements and sgml-list-occur- in-elements commands, each of which is accesible in one of three ways: M-x sgml-list-content-elements DTD > Info > List content elements ESC ` d I c and M-x sgml-list-occur-in-elements DTD > Info > List occur in elements ESC ` d I o The lists are generated in a new buffer, which you can save if you like. The lists created address some of Lou's and my concerns about false information, in that at least the lists are custom- ized to the currently selected tagsets for the document (remember to reparse the prolog with C-c C-p if you make changes to the document type declaration), even if they obviously tell you nothing about a particular context. Sending these lists to the user (whether generated by Emacs or some other process) is what I had in mind when we were discussing what is now action item 6. [2] The astute reader will realize that the location ladders provided herein as the value of from= aren't quite right: P3 requires that the keywords (ID and CHILD) be in uppercase. Well, I thought they were easier to read in lower case; if anyone actually has soft- ware that processes these things I will happily change them to uppercase in trade for the software. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 3 05:31:43 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:31:43 +0000 Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London) In-Reply-To: <15452.33464.189860.522114@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020203103143.GC5140@spqr-dell> On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 07:22:16PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote: > certainly there may well be areas for which the relavant standard > does not apply to our users. E.g., it may turn out that MathML is > quite useful for writing modern equations to be typeset, but not > nearly so useful for encoding the works of 17th century mathema- > ticians. ince the first part of MathML is descriptive in the same way that TeX is, I'd be surprised. but I take the point > [1] A tangent, not for the minutes: > I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows how to easily get > customized parent and children lists. After simply loading a TEI > file in Emacs/psgml mode (you do use Emacs with psgml, don't > you?) you said it. the man in the street probably doesn't. if I may be apocalyptic, emacs+psgml is dead in the water unless someone who really knows elisp takes it by the scruff of the neck and makes it grok schemas of some kind. > you like. The lists created address some of Lou's and my concerns > about false information, in that at least the lists are custom- > ized to the currently selected tagsets for the document fwiw, the lists now in P4 are done with the same philosophy, viz taking a TEI instance, and deriving a flat DTD which can be taken to pieces (I go via Relax NG, but thats just to amuse myself) of course, it only solves the problem of the lists for *elements*. To get the parents and children for element classes is not at all so easy! > Sending these lists to the user (whether generated by Emacs or > some other process) I am assuming that PizzaNG will offer customized documentation of this type. Apropos of which, there has not been much discussion of where PizzaNG is going to come from, who is going to do it, how we pay for it, and what its spec is. Does anyone want to discuss this? My assumption at present is that I will be working on it, but I have not gone much further than the thought. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Feb 4 08:18:09 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:18:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: JPW In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: A couple of other Big-TEI-Collections-With-Minimal-Encoding would be Early Canadiana Online and the Legacy Tobacco Documents Library . The latter project has only metadata searchable at the moment, but they're OCRing the 20 million documents, God help them, and will make the unedited OCR searchable using Michigan's DLXS software. I don't know anyone at either project, and we may not want them represented on the committee, but the committee will want to contact them. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Lee Ellen Friedland > > ....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to > go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the > Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the > criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the > problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is > that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did > as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library > problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of > community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice. > > So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to > chair this workgroup? > > John > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 4 20:16:10 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:16:10 -0500 Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this should probably go out by the end of the week. Thanks, John ------------------- Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than March 1st, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish to volunteer, please contact tei at tei-c.org by Friday, February 15th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your qualifications. John Unsworth Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 4 21:47:48 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:47:48 -0500 Subject: workgroup charter Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204214534.03916be8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Here's a draft of a re-usable workgroup charter. I've used David's workgroup as the example, but you can probably see how the form would be altered for other cases. Does this charter say enough? John ------------------------------------ TEI Workgroup Charter: The Rules and Recommendations for TEI Work Group Procedures (TEI Document EDW54, revised January, 2002) states: "The technical work of the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is performed by work groups composed of volunteers from the community of those using electronic texts for research. The work groups are the core of the TEI, and the quality of their work is crucial." and "Work groups are formed by the TEI Council whenever the TEI undertakes a new work item which does not fit into the area of responsibility of any existing work group. They serve until they have finished all their outstanding work items, or until discharged by the Council." Full text of these rules and recommendations are available on the TEI web site, at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html, and they should be consulted by all members of TEI workgroups. This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council to investigate the following topic: Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr The TEI Council has appointed the following person as chair of this workgroup: David Durand Brown University & ingenta plc Providence, USA david at dynamicdiagrams.com The budget for this workgroup, during the year in which it is chartered, is: US $8,000. A preliminary report to the TEI Council are expected in time for the May, 2002 meeting of the TEI Board, and a further progress report should also be made in time for the annual members' meeting, in October, 2002. Unless the TEI Council renews this charter at its January meeting, it will automatically terminate on January 31, 2003. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Feb 5 10:46:08 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:46:08 +0000 Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020205154608.GN1538@spqr-dell> seems eminently reasonable to me. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 6 12:15:31 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:15:31 -0500 Subject: training Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206121447.024f3208@pop3.norton.antivirus> For the record, and to avoid duplication of effort, I've asked Perry Willett to talk to Creagh Cole about the workshop in Sydney, and he's agreed to do so. Thanks, Perry. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Feb 6 13:25:03 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:25:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in > the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this > should probably go out by the end of the week. > > Thanks,

Looks fine to me. L From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 6 17:08:53 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:08:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: workgroup charter In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204214534.03916be8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Here's a draft of a re-usable workgroup charter. I've used David's > workgroup as the example, but you can probably see how the form would be > altered for other cases. Does this charter say enough? > Not in my opinion. It seems to me we have to strike a difficult balance between too much (micro-management) and too little (handwaving). I appreciate that John is offering this as a template rather than a finished draft, but I really think the charter should say a lot more about what exactly the group is intended to do. For examples of earlier wg charters, http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/TR/tr1p01.htm or http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/TR/tr7p01.txt -- I don't think we need to reuse these formulae, but I do think we need to be more explicit than > This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council > to investigate the following topic: > > Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr

What does David think? How helpful is that as a charge? For my money, I'd rather be given a specific list of items to be working on which I could quarrel with, select from, add to, rather than a vague indication of terrain. Here's a suggestion, probably going too far in the opposite direction: The workgroup should review the following areas in which the recommendations of P4 need reassessment: -- the extended pointer syntax as a means of supporting external linkage -- TEI linking attributes as a means of implementing standoff markup The workgroup should investigate how best to achieve interoperability between TEI extended pointer syntax and W3C standards such as XPath, and make proposals for convergence of the two syntaxes The workgroup should produce recommendations and best practice guidelines relating to interoperability or convergence between TEI recommendations and other emerging standards in this area The workgroup should also propose explicit revisions to the existing TEI Guidelines where this is judged necessary or desirable to achieve such convergence The workgroup should investigate and report on availability of software implementing all or part of the TEI recommendations in these areas The workgroup should begin by defining an initial workplan, with identified milestones and deliverables, for ratification at the council meeting in May 2002.

Lou

> ------------------------------------ > > TEI Workgroup Charter: > > The Rules and Recommendations for TEI Work Group Procedures (TEI Document > EDW54, revised January, 2002) states: > > "The technical work of the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is performed by > work groups composed of volunteers from the community of those using > electronic texts for research. The work groups are the core of the TEI, and > the quality of their work is crucial." > > and > > "Work groups are formed by the TEI Council whenever the TEI undertakes a > new work item which does not fit into the area of responsibility of any > existing work group. They serve until they have finished all their > outstanding work items, or until discharged by the Council." > > Full text of these rules and recommendations are available on the TEI web > site, at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html, and they should be > consulted by all members of TEI workgroups. > > This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council > to investigate the following topic: > > Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr > > The TEI Council has appointed the following person as chair of this workgroup: > David Durand > Brown University & ingenta plc > Providence, USA > david at dynamicdiagrams.com > > The budget for this workgroup, during the year in which it is chartered, is: > > US $8,000. > > A preliminary report to the TEI Council are expected in time for the May, > 2002 meeting of the TEI Board, and a further progress report should also be > made in time for the annual members' meeting, in October, 2002. Unless > the TEI Council renews this charter at its January meeting, it will > automatically terminate on January 31, 2003. > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 6 23:41:18 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:41:18 -0500 Subject: workgroup charter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206233715.01d0ad88@pop3.norton.antivirus> The examples Lou cites from the Vault are helpful: in particular, I think we should preserve the three section headings: OBJECTIVES ADMINISTRATIVE DEADLINES and I agree that more is needed under "objectives" than what I provided in my first draft. Ideally, we would specify these objectives at the meeting in which a workgroup was chartered. Not having done that, for the two workgroups that were chartered and assigned chairs at that meeting, I would like to ask the workgroup chairs to propose objectives to the Council, via this list. When they have done that, and we've collectively approved those objectives, I'll compile a new charter for each, according to the formula above, and ask Lou to file and post it. I will work on some objectives for the NEH workgroup, and propose them here as well. And having heard no dissent on the draft call for participation for that NEH workgroup, I'll hereby give warning that I intend to circulate that call by the end of this week. John From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Feb 7 00:16:10 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:16:10 +0100 (MET) Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <200202070516.GAA05003@obelix.ijs.si> John Unsworth writes: > Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in > the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this > should probably go out by the end of the week. Sorry if this is already a bit late in the day: > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National Hope I have my English tenses right, but isn't it "is being funded" > Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to > conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase > of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision > of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase > will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI > resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup > in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely > with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and > tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in > TEI. The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors > and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one > final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical writer > for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive > director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and > travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. The above says that the meetings will be funded, and travel to these meetings. I'm not sure if this means accommodation and per-diem are covered for the attendees or not. > The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than > March 1st, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and > TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish > to volunteer, please contact > > tei at tei-c.org > > by Friday, February 15th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data > migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI > SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your > qualifications. That is only a week, can't it be extended at least a bit more? Best, Tomaz From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Feb 7 04:00:41 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:00:41 +0100 Subject: workgroup charter In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206233715.01d0ad88@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C625049.24130.868F0@localhost> > John: > And having heard no dissent on the draft call for participation > for that NEH workgroup, I'll hereby give warning that I intend to circulate > that call by the end of this week. > John, I am managing 2 electronic discussion list, one for subscribers of the yearbook of computer philology and the other for a group of editors working on electronic editions. So you would probably reach most of the German speaking TEI users, if you include this lists in your circulation. Just send the text to me. Hth, Fotis From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Feb 7 15:47:23 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:47:23 -0800 Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020207124635.00ac4f38@notes.rlg.org> Looks good to me. Merrilee From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 7 19:44:23 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:44:23 -0500 Subject: allc/ach 2002 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207194257.01cd79e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> This is just to register the fact that I have written the local organizers of the ALLC/ACH 2002 conference to ask if we can arrange an open lunch-time meeting for the TEI, as we have done in years past. When a date is set, I'll relay that information here, and I hope board and council members who are at the conference will plan to attend. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 7 21:25:26 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:25:26 -0500 Subject: call for participation (draft for comment) In-Reply-To: <200202070516.GAA05003@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207212301.01d2ba68@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 06:16 AM 2/7/2002 +0100, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: >Sorry if this is already a bit late in the day: > > > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National > >Hope I have my English tenses right, but isn't it "is being funded" Depends on how you look at it. Either is correct, grammatically. >The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors > > and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one > > final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical > writer > > for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive > > director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and > > travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. > >The above says that the meetings will be funded, and travel to these >meetings. I'm not sure if this means accommodation and per-diem are >covered for the attendees or not. Travel and expenses; I'll specify.

> > by Friday, February 15th,

>That is only a week, can't it be extended at least a bit more? Sure--we can say the end of February. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 10 18:49:04 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:49:04 -0500 Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184848.029dad60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Re: the NEH workgroup: >X-Authentication-Warning: koolaid.umdl.umich.edu: sooty owned process >doing -bs >Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:12:40 -0500 (EST) >From: Chris Powell >X-Sender: sooty at koolaid.umdl.umich.edu >To: tei at tei-c.org >Subject: TEI call for participation > > >I am interested in participating in the project on migrating TEI to XML, >representing the University of Michigan Digital Library Production Service >and its TEI-based holdings. I have been working with texts encoded in >various TEI DTDs (primarily TEI Lite, but some work with transcription of >spoken language, transcription of manuscripts, and dictionaries as well) >since August 1995. I am a member of the working group that created the >TEI in Libraries Guidelines for Best Encoding Practices, available at >http://www.indiana.edu/~letrs/tei/ > >For the past two years, I have been converting SGML texts to XML in order >to use XSLT for processing to our online delivery DTD. > >Christina Powell >University of Michigan >Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/ >Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/ From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 10 18:49:38 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:49:38 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184915.029f5548@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another response, re: the NEH workgroup: >Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:08:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Gregory Murphy >X-Sender: gjmurphy at gris >To: John Unsworth >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation > > >Dear John, > >I am glad to hear of the TEI consortium's plans to organize a migration >plan from SGML to XML, and am interested in volunteering myself. Before I >can do so, however, I will have to discuss it with my manager (I work >full-time as an engineer for Sun Microsystems). > >Do you have sense of when the proposed meetings would be held, where, and >for how long? > >// Gregory Murphy From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 10:35:34 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:35:34 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211103242.0295a358@pop3.norton.antivirus> Folks, This came in a couple of days ago, and after a brief discussion with the board, I think we agree that we endorse the general idea of working with CIDOC as appropriate, and also agree that it is really up to the Council to decide what *is* appropriate in this connection. So, here's the original message, and I will forward one follow-up email response from Richard, and you should let me know what further response the Council might want me to make at this point. John >Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:21:06 +0000 >To: jmu2m at virginia.edu >Cc: Adrian Finney >From: Richard Light >Subject: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI >User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U () > > >John, > >I am on the Board of CIDOC, which is the International Committee for >Documentation (part of ICOM, the International Council of Museums). This >Committee has nearly 1,000 members in 86 countries. Its web address is >http://www.cidoc.icom.org/ > >CIDOC works to develop and apply documentation standards which will >further the work of museums in general. It has produced a number of >resources in its own right, from basic guidance on inventorying through to >a Conceptual Reference Model for heritage information which has been >submitted to ISO as a proposed standard. > >At a recent Board meeting it was agreed that we should investigate the >possibility of collaborating with the Text Encoding Initiative - hence >this message. > >Our view is that both organizations could benefit from such collaboration. >CIDOC would be willing to work actively on aspects of TEI (such as people, >places and dates) where our knowledge and experience could help the >development of the next version of the Guidelines. We may also be >interested in developing a museums-specific "topping" that goes beyond >this. Clearly, this work would help to raise the profile of TEI within >the museums community in general, and improve its level of adoption for >textual resources within museums. > >I look forward to hearing your views on this proposal. Please don't >hesitate to contact me if you need any further information. > >Best wishes, > >Richard Light. > >-- >Richard Light >Board Member, CIDOC >3 Midfields Walk >Burgess Hill >West Sussex >RH15 8JA >tel. +44 1444 232067 >email: richard at light.demon.co.uk > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 10:36:03 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:36:03 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211103544.01cd8748@pop3.norton.antivirus> Part 2 of my two-part message. J. >Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:35:11 +0000 >To: John Unsworth >From: Richard Light >Subject: Re: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI >User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U () > >In message <5.1.0.14.2.20020209153036.01cda080 at pop3.norton.antivirus>, >John Unsworth writes > >>We can certainly, in any case, think about including CIDOC >>representatives when appropriate TEI workgroups are formed, since one >>doesn't need to be a member, or from a member institution, to participate >>in TEI workgroups. > >That's certainly the sort of thing we had in mind: a practical alliance >which has the aim of getting useful work done. CIDOC has a Documentation >Standards Working Group, which could provide this sort of representation >to TEI workgroups. > >>Other ideas? > >One area that Documentation Standards wants to pursue is the rescue and >effective use of less structured information resources: things like >exhibition catalogues, wall texts, reports, ... If we adopt TEI as a >basis for such work, it already gives us a generic framework which would >be valuable. > >At a practical level, we would be interested in techniques for converting >standard word processor formats (RTF!) to TEI, e.g. a custom application >of software like LogicTran. Presumably this is an interest that would be >shared by many users of TEI? > >However, this work would be even more valuable if we could encode >museum-specific concepts within such resources. (This has analogies with >the MASTER project.) Accordingly, we could use the high-level CIDOC >Conceptual Reference Model ("CRM") to discover the extent to which >existing TEI covers museum requirements, and develop an extension to TEI >which deals with the remainder of our needs. > >How does this sound? > >Richard. > >-- >Richard Light >SGML/XML and Museum Information Consultancy >3 Midfields Walk >Burgess Hill >West Sussex >RH15 8JA >tel. 01444 232067 >email: richard at light.demon.co.uk > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 12:30:10 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:30:10 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Participating in Migrating TEI Resources to XML Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211122952.01d33ed0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another volunteer... J. >Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:54:12 +0900 (LMT) >To: tei at tei-c.org >Subject: Participating in Migrating TEI Resources to XML >From: Syun Tutiya >X-Mailer: Mew version 3.0.51 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI) > >To whom it may concern, > >This is to show Syun Tutiya's intention of volunteering as a >participant in the migration to XML project. > >I contributed to the TEI P3 by writing the chapter on character sets >with Harry Gaylord, have been working on encoding spoken dialog >corpora in TEI/SGML, and currently am in the process of recompiling >them in terms the proposed TEI P4. The Japanese Map Task Corpus >Project I represent aims at fruitful interdisciplinary study of spoken >dialog based on the reliable corpora with text transcription and >digitized sounds interlinked together. > >I teach text processing at graduate school, and cognitive science and >philosophy at undergraduate level, as professor of cognitive and >information sciences, Chiba University, Japan. > >Best wishes, > >Syun Tutiya >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Syun Tutiya >Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University >Address: Faculty of Letters, Chiba University > 1-33 Yayoicho, Inageku, Chiba 263-8522, JAPAN >Phone: +81-43-290-2277 FAX : +81-43-290-2278 >Email: tutiya at chiba-u.ac.jp URL: http://CogSci.L.chiba-u.ac.jp/~tutiya/ From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 13 14:47:43 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:47:43 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Volunteer for SGML to XML workgroup Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020213144701.01d37d00@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another volunteer. I am responding to each of these with thanks, and saying that we will be back in touch once our end-of-the-month deadline passes. john >X-Authentication-Warning: sink.ucs.indiana.edu: jawalsh owned process >doing -bs >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:45:50 -0500 (EST) >From: "John A.Walsh" >X-X-Sender: >To: tei at tei-c.org >MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at >mail.virginia.edu >Subject: Volunteer for SGML to XML workgroup > >Dear Professor Unsworth and members of the TEI Council: > >I would like to volunteer to serve as a TEI expert on the TEI SGML to >XML workgroup. > >I am the manager of electronic text technologies at Indiana >University's Digital Library Program and Library Electronic Text >Services (LETRS). I have over six years experience working with and >developing large SGML and XML TEI collections. One of my current >endeavors is the Swinburne Project >(), which uses the currently >available version of TEI P4 and is fully XML-compliant; many of the >texts in the collection were converted from P3 SGML to P4 XML. I also >hold a Ph.D. in English Literature and am a Sun-certified Java >programmer and an IBM-certified XML developer. My full CV is >available on line at: >. > >I am enthusiastic about the work of the TEI Consortium and believe I >could offer valuable contributions to the important efforts of the >workgroup. > >Sincerely, > >John A. Walsh >| John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies >| Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services (UITS) >| Indiana University, 1320 East Tenth Street, Bloomington, IN 47405 >| Voice:812-855-8758 Fax:812-856-2062 From mjd at hum.ku.dk Thu Feb 14 03:19:29 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:19:29 +0100 Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184848.029dad60@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost> They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have been an excellent idea. Matthew From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Feb 14 06:49:24 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:49:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost> Message-ID: I would second this. Chris would be great. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, M. J. Driscoll wrote: > They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair > would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have > been an excellent idea. > > Matthew > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 14 09:21:08 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:21:08 -0500 Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020214092014.01ce0bd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 09:19 AM 2/14/2002 +0100, you wrote: >They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair >would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have >been an excellent idea.

Agreed on both points, and thanks, Lou, for suggesting the call. It would probably be a good thing to institute as a normal procedure when forming workgroups, in general. J. From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Feb 14 15:38:07 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:38:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: extended pointers for P4 Message-ID: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu> As you all know, David Durand is heading up our new work group on linking, hypertext, and the like. The new work group is charged with coming up with recomendations for P5. My question for the council is what to do with extended pointers for P4. There are two issues at hand. The first is case: P3> Note that the keywords, though shown here quoted in uppercase, are P3> not case sensitive. Several people, not the least Sebastian, have pointed out that this is not very XML-like (he refers to it as "XML-immoral"), and that in the modern world these keywords (more correctly called location types) should be one case or the other, preferably lower case because it's easier on the eyes. Both editors (and Sebastian) think it would probably be a good idea to change these to just lowercase (for P4). However, this is not a "corrigible error" that we editors can haul off and do on our own: such a change would likely break some existing documents. Of course, it's not like there are hundreds of programs out there processing thousands of documents with millions of extended pointers. :-(

The second problem is whitespace. P3 is a little bit confusing, but seems to insist on whitespace between location types and values, and between separate parenthesized steps of the value: P3> Location types and values, and the parameters within a location P3> value, must be separated by white space characters. and a bit later, discussing the steps: P3> The value is a series of parenthesized steps, separated by white P3> space. How come? Why not allow "child(2 p)(1 list)(7 item)" instead of insisting on "child (2 p) (1 list) (7 item)"? Both editors (and Sebastian) think it would probably be a good idea to change this so that the whitespace is optional (in P4). However, this is at best a borderline "corrigible error", in that it is not obviously wrong, or at least someone might be able to make a case for it to work that way. The good news is that making the white space optional should not break any existing documents. I have asked Steve DeRose and David Durand (2 of the original 4 on TR3, the work group on hypertext and hypermedia; since we have Lou's input, and he was 1 of the 2 editor's back then, we've consulted with 50% of the people who made this decision), and neither thinks there is a particularly strong reason not to effect these changes now.

So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location types, should we a) make no changes, leave them case insensitive; b) change to case sensitive, always lower case; c) change to case sensitive, always upper case; d) change to case sensitive, some bizarre mixture or capitalized or camel case; e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)? On the issue of whitespace should we a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; b) make the whitespace between location types and location values, and between parenthesized steps, optional. Note for those who actually think about how these things will be parsed: per the formal definition of "locterm" in 4.2.2.2, all location types are followed either by nothing (i.e., the end of the attribute value or whitespace followed by another locterm), something in parenthesis, or by one of the non-terminals "steps", "regs", or "parms" (or "pointpair", after a name in parens); later in the section all four of these non-terminals are defined to be enclosed in parenthesis. Thus it is always the case that a location type is followed either by nothing, whitespace and the next location type, or by whitespace, and open parenthesis, and some location value(s). Since there is always that open parenthesis, the whitespace is not needed. From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Feb 14 22:25:48 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:25:48 +0100 (MET) Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <200202150325.EAA01915@obelix.ijs.si> Syd Bauman writes: > So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location > types, should we > > b) change to case sensitive, always lower case; It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil choice. > On the issue of whitespace should we > > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values, > and between parenthesized steps, optional.

Best, Tomaz From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Feb 15 09:57:30 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:57:30 -0500 Subject: Fwd: RE: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020215095712.01cf1ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another excellent response. J. >From: Michael Popham >To: "'tei at tei-c.org'" >Subject: RE: TEI call for participation >Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:30:48 -0000 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > >Dear TEI Council > >I am writing in response to the recent call for participants to join a >workgroup to explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of >existing TEI resources from SGML to XML, and would like to be considered as >a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML holdings. > >The OTA has one of the largest and most diverse collections of SGML >TEI-conformant data in Europe (certainly within the UK), and our holdings >continue to grow as we accession and preserve high quality scholarly >materials on behalf of the UK's national Arts and Humanities Data Service. >We have a particularly strong interest in the activities of this TEI >workgroup, and would like to do all we can to ensure that any >recommendations address the needs and concerns of both ourselves and our >extensive community of users. > >Regarding my personal qualifications: Academically, I hold a BA(Hons) in >English and American Literature, and Masters degrees in Computer Science and >also Linguistics. Professionally, I have worked as both an >analyst/programmer, and also a technical author for international companies. >Prior to coming to Oxford, I spent three years leading an academic project >to promote and support the use of SGML throughout the UK's Higher Education >sector, and since 1996 I have been manager of the Oxford Text Archive. I >also serve on the Committee of the British Computer Society's Electronic >Publishing Specialist Group, and that of XML UK (the successor to SGML UK, >the UK Chapter of the International SGML Users' Group). > >Should you require any further information in support of my application, >please do not hesitate to get in touch. > > >Best wishes, > >Michael >------------------------------------------------- >Michael Popham -- Head of the Oxford Text Archive >Oxford University Computing Services, >13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN, United Kingdom >Tel: +44-(0)1865-283296; Fax: +44-(0)1865-273275 >URL: http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/ >------------------------------------------------- From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Feb 15 10:06:09 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:06:09 +0100 Subject: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020215095712.01cf1ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C6D31F1.19716.1740EFC@localhost> An embarras du richesses, truly. MJD From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 09:55:34 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:55:34 +0000 Subject: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <3C6D31F1.19716.1740EFC@localhost> Message-ID: <20020217145534.GH14336@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 04:06:09PM +0100, M. J. Driscoll wrote: > An embarras du richesses, truly. actually, we did specify a really quite large number of people for this exercise. without counting, I'd guess we can involve everyone who has written in, without having to make choices. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 18:08:01 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:08:01 +0000 Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020217230801.GN16548@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:38:07PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote: > > So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location > types, should we > > b) change to case sensitive, always lower case; yes please. > On the issue of whitespace should we > > a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values, > and between parenthesized steps, optional. how about c), make white space disallowed? I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear. Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 17 18:45:13 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:45:13 -0500 Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <20020217230801.GN16548@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:08 PM 2/17/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:38:07PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote: > > > > So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location > > types, should we > > > > b) change to case sensitive, always lower case; >yes please. I'm disinclined to do something that will break existing documents, in P4. We are reserving that option (and likely will exercise it) in P5, but we have gone to some lengths, I think, to avoid breakage in P4, and I think we should stick with that policy. Tomaz says: >It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because >the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil >choice. but I'm not sure that existing documents would be broken by the possibility of case-sensitivity in an XML version of the TEI DTD, whereas it seems to me they would be broken by a requirement of case sensitivity in the SGML version of the TEI DTD. If that assessment is off, I have no doubt someone will let me know. > > On the issue of whitespace should we > > > > a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; > > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values, > > and between parenthesized steps, optional. > >how about c), make white space disallowed? > >I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear. >Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible. On the same principle, I think b), above, is less likely to break things. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 18:57:56 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:57:56 +0000 Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020217235756.GB17124@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:45:13PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > > I'm disinclined to do something that will break existing documents, in > P4. We are reserving that option (and likely will exercise it) in P5, but > we have gone to some lengths, I think, to avoid breakage in P4, and I think > we should stick with that policy. I'd normally agree 100%, but once you start reading that section of the Guidelines with XML in mind, it stands out as being plain weird. Since we can't expect P5 for another 18 months (anyone dare disagree?), I think we should enter the XML world now with a firm step. Let's have a quick poll - does anyone on this list use TEI extended pointers in their files? if so, would the switch to lower-case only ruin your life? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 17 23:24:26 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:24:26 -0500 Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <20020217235756.GB17124@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217232215.01cea708@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:57 PM 2/17/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Let's have a quick poll - does anyone on this list use TEI >extended pointers in their files? if so, would the switch >to lower-case only ruin your life?

Sorry, but I think at a minimum that's the sort of poll that would only be meaningful in the NEH/SGML-XML workgroup, not here in the council. That won't happen in time for the P4 guidelines to go to press, so I would recommend that, in these cases and as a general principle, loosening the restrictiveness of P4 at this point is OK (e.g., whitespace optional), but tightening it (e.g., case sensitivity required) is not. John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 05:13:45 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:13:45 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > >It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because > >the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil > >choice. > > but I'm not sure that existing documents would be broken by the possibility > of case-sensitivity in an XML version of the TEI DTD, whereas it seems to > me they would be broken by a requirement of case sensitivity in the SGML > version of the TEI DTD. If that assessment is off, I have no doubt someone > will let me know.

There already *is* a requirement for case-sensitivity in the keywords of the extended pointer syntax e.g. you must say "ID (foo)" not "id (foo)" and "ANCESTOR (p 1)" not "ancestor (p 1)", even though "ANCESTOR (P 1)" would be OK, since the GI "p" is *not* case sensitive in SGML! This inconsistency is so close to nonsense that I think it verges on the corrigible error. Especially because making the syntax case insensitive throughout wouldn't break existing valid documents. It might unbreak some, of course, and if we ever decided to revert the decision or go the way suggested by Comissar Rahtz, it might give us with a legacy data problem in the future.

> > > > On the issue of whitespace should we > > > > > > a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; > > > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values, > > > and between parenthesized steps, optional. > > > >how about c), make white space disallowed? > > > >I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear. > >Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible. > > On the same principle, I think b), above, is less likely to break things. > Same principles apply, I think. We currently have a restriction which we can choose to relax, or not. L From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 20 12:28:34 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:28:34 -0800 Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220092638.03cc7e58@notes.rlg.org> Going back to Syd's original email and given the subsequent discussion, is >e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as > case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but > I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)? uch a bad idea? >On the issue of whitespace I vote for >a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; I guess generally I am compelled by the argument to not break documents yet. Merrilee From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Feb 20 14:13:01 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:13:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: extended pointers for P4 In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220092638.03cc7e58@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Merrilee Proffitt wrote: > > Going back to Syd's original email and given the subsequent discussion, is > > >e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as > > case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but > > I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)? > > such a bad idea? > > >On the issue of whitespace > > I vote for > > >a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required; > > I guess generally I am compelled by the argument to not break documents yet.

Me too. However it's hard to see why making the grammar MORE permissive (e.g. not requiring whitespace where it was previously mandatory) could be said to break existing documents. Existing documents wont have whitespace so they will still be valid. > > Merrilee > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Feb 23 22:25:50 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:25:50 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020223222218.01d74a98@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another volunteer. Our deadline passes in about a week, we will need to appoint a chair for this committee, so please be thinking about who should chair that group. I'll ask for your opinion in a few days. John >X-Sender: dacilen at pop5.attglobal.net >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:17:24 +0000 >To: tei at tei-c.org >From: Vika Zafrin >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation > >Hello, > >I work on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at >Brown University. ( http://www.brown.edu/decameron/ ) It is a project >with significant TEI SGML holdings, a large part of which I encoded >myself. We would very much like to participate in the workgroup for >migraating TEI resources to XML, as this is something we have been >considering on our own. > >My personal qualifications: I have been webmaster of The Decameron Web >for a year and a half, and have HTML and SGML experience. I am the member >of our team currently tasked with researching the possibilities that XML >presents for our project. To this end, I have attended an XML/XSLT >seminar, led by John Lavagnino and John Bradley, at King's College, >London; and also the XML: Nuts and Bolts workshop presented by Susan >Schreibman and Judith Wusteman in Dublin this past December. > >Please let me know if you require additional information. I look forward >to hearing from you. > >-Vika Zafrin > >--- >PLEASE NOTE NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS: >vika at wordsend.org > > From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Sun Feb 24 18:42:51 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:42:51 +0100 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207194257.01cd79e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C79888B.9164.DD519A@localhost> Coming from a larger meeting of German editors I have a question to the council and the board: The amount charged for a membership in the TEI consortium is so high, that it is quite prohibitive for German academic institutions. At the meeting we tried to find a way to involve German editors nevertheless with the TEI council, not the least because the meeting showed that the TEI guidelines are used in many projects. There has been made a proposal which looks rather sound to me, so maybe we could discuss it here: We will try to found a society and this society would become a member of the TEI. The society should be constituted by a group of German institutions somehow involved in editorial practice or just in using TEI (historians, literary editors, dictionary work groups, linguists etc.). If we find 20 members the fee for each member would be ca. 250 ? and at the moment we think it is a reasonable hope to find so many members willing to pay. On the plus side: If the society succeeds in finding 20 members there would be another institutional member of the TEI. Problems: All members of the society would have access to the services provided by the TEI for its members. There is the danger, that no other German institution would become a member of the TEI, because it would be cheaper to become a member of the German society. But this danger is not really one because most German academic institutions wouldn't be able to spend this kind of money anyway. Is this acceptable for the TEI? What do you think? Fotis Jannidis From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 24 19:34:45 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:34:45 +0000 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <3C79888B.9164.DD519A@localhost> Message-ID: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I wonder whether a) These editors realize properly the different tiers of membership. A small project in a large German university can join for itself, without the whole University joining, and then the fee is not so very large. b) Without wanting to do down the TEI, the benefits of membership are not very tangible. These editors can participate very fully in workgroups without being members. I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us some idea of the size of projects involved? The idea of the special society seems a bit sad. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 24 22:16:58 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:16:58 -0500 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020224220001.01d048b8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Fotis, I agree with Sebastian that the scheme for determining membership fees may be unclear, if the fees seem too high: a German (or American, or British, or other first-world economy) organization could join for anywhere from $500 to $5,000, depending on the number of people. For example, if the Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities, at the University of Virginia, were to join on its own, and not on behalf of the whole University of Virginia, then we would pay $1500, because we are more than five but fewer than fifteen. The complexity of the sliding scale for membership fees is our best attempt to accommodate organizations of different sizes, in economies of different strengths. And, as Sebastian points out, individuals do not need to belong to member institutions in order to participate in any of the functions of the TEI. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 25 12:11:51 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:11:51 -0500 Subject: Migration to XML (fwd) Message-ID: <10590000.1014657111@localhost> Another interesting self-nomination. I'll respond. John ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 05:18:35 PM +0100 From: Frans Wiering To: tei at tei-c.org Subject: Migration to XML Dear members of the TEI council, I'm interested in participating in the workgroup "Migrating TEI Resources to XML", as a representative of a significant TEI SGML holding, the Thesaurus Musicarum Italicarum (TMI), of which I am the project manager. I work at the Institute of Information and Computing Sciences (ICS) of Utrecht University, as a member of the Information Science group (which used to be the Department of Computer and Humanities at the same university). I teach courses in Interchange Languages (mainly XML and related standards/recommendations) and Information Retrieval. My research is in computer applications in music(ology), and encoding of (music)historical sources. A few weeks ago, the ICS has applied for membership of the TEI consortium. TMI is an SGML-TEI encoded corpus consisting of (to date) 30 Italian music treatises from the 16th and 17th century, founded in 1996. The total size of the SGML-files is about 13 Mb. Most of the TMI files are deeply encoded, featuring hyperlinking, editorial markup, encoding of different versions of the same source, and markup of names and titles (treatises inside and outside the corpus, musical compositions). Some of the treatises contain quotations in Greek and Hebrew script; nearly all of them contain musical symbols in the text that are encoded as SDATA. Currently, most TMI materials are available on the WWW (http://www.euromusicology.org). The Dynaweb server is used to perform on-the-fly conversion from SGML to HTML, and as a search engine. For the not too distant future, migration to XML is expected. One reason is that participants prefer to contribute new treatises in XML, another to be able to use XML-related standards and XML software to extend the functionality of TMI. Sincerely Frans Wiering --------------------------------------------------------------------- dr. Frans Wiering e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- Institute of Information and Computing Sciences (ICS) Utrecht University Padualaan 14 P.O. Box 80.089 NL-3508 TB Utrecht tel: +31-30-2536335 fax: +31-30-2513791 www: http://www.cs.uu.nl ---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Feb 25 14:34:22 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:34:22 +0100 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <3C7A9FCE.28111.AE5735@localhost> Sebastian, John, thanks for your answer. I think these editors do realize the different tiers of membership, but, as I already mentioned, the monetary possibilities of most of these projects are very limited. Maybe in the future new projects will include in their applications for grants money for the TEI membership, but there seems to be a problem 1) to have the money 2) to rechannel it into the TEI membership. The tei-c website says: "This includes not only universities, libraries and professional societies, but also both individual projects on the one hand, and **larger consortia of organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this be the basis for granting this planned society the membership. > Sebastian: "> I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. " I do suspect a difference in academic cultures here. It does look high for a German academic. > b) Without wanting to do down the TEI, the benefits of membership > are not very tangible. These editors can participate very > fully in workgroups without being members. You are quite right. It is difficult to have an open source culture approach and sell it on the same time. > I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us > some idea of the size of projects involved? Based on my conversations I think between 1 and 15 people. > The idea of the special society seems a bit sad. Not sure I understand this. Having this society would make it easier to communicate with all TEI interests in Germany at once. Communication is normally hindered by the barriers of the academic disciplines and this society would cut across them. Actually, I don't understand your hesitation. It seems to me very unprobably that German members worth 5000$ will join the TEI, so the proposition has positive aspects for the TEI and for the German projects. (But I am not sure that we can convince enough projects to join the society.) Fotis Jannidis From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 25 15:24:55 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:24:55 +0000 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <3C7A9FCE.28111.AE5735@localhost> Message-ID: <20020225202455.GK5346@spqr-dell> On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 08:34:22PM +0100, Fotis Jannidis wrote: > are very limited. Maybe in the future new projects will > include in their applications for grants money for > the TEI membership, but there seems to be a problem 1) to have the > money 2) to rechannel it into the TEI membership. Much as I'd like all those Euros for the TEI, its even more important that they use the TEI. They can do that, and join in all discussions, without joining. > organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this > be the basis for granting this planned society the membership. I don't think this German society would be banned from joining, but I do wonder whether its worth the effort of setting it all up > > Sebastian: > "> I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. " > I do suspect a difference in academic cultures here. > It does look high for a German academic. considering we are in the same economic bloc, and considering that German academics have traditionally been much better paid than ones in the UK, I remain puzzled. $500 really isn't that much money to you or I - its not as if we were talking about an academic in Burkina Faso.... > > I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us > > some idea of the size of projects involved? > Based on my conversations I think between 1 and 15 people. why not persuade them to forego all Microsoft software and spend the money on TEI instead? :-} > Not sure I understand this. Having this society would make > it easier to communicate with all TEI interests in Germany at once. > Communication is normally hindered by the > barriers of the academic disciplines and this society would cut across them. er, yes, but thats what the TEI is for! I'd *much* rather your editors all joined as individual members at some low cost. I am not against a local chapter of German TEI users, that would be really great. I am just nervous of this extra layer of bureaucracy caused by the society. Possibly I am scarred by years of dealing with the German TeX Users Group..! Why not forget membership for now, but form a local chapter (no fees etc) of TEI users, get them all enthused and then see how it goes? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 25 22:05:14 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:05:14 -0500 Subject: membership In-Reply-To: <20020225202455.GK5346@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020225220355.01cf5980@pop3.norton.antivirus> Fotis, > > organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this > > be the basis for granting this planned society the membership. > >I don't think this German society would be banned from joining, >but I do wonder whether its worth the effort of setting it all up That's for them to decide, I think. Fotis, if this group wants to constitute itself in some way, they can certainly join. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Feb 26 15:33:36 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:33:36 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020226153323.02943008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another excellent volunteer. J. >Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:46:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >From: Natalia Smith >To: tei at tei-c.org >cc: John Unsworth , nsmith at email.unc.edu >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation >X-X-Sender: nsmith at imap.unc.edu > >Good afternoon: > >I would like to volunteer as participant in the NEH-funded project as >representative of a large ongoing project, Documenting the American South, >and as a person with extensive experience of working with TEI. > >*Project*: >+ "Documenting the American South" (http://docsouth.unc.edu/) includes >some 150,000 pages of pristine TEI/SGML encoded materials, all following >recommendations for Level 4 encoding of the TEI in Libraries Guidelines. >+ All six chapters of DocSouth gained national and international acclaim >for the content as well as the consistency of the encoded data; highlights >include "Slave Narratives" (NEH-funded project) and "First-Person >Narratives" (Winner of LC/Ameritech NDL Competition). > >*My qualifications*: >+ Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth >+ 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending >CETH Summer seminar in 1995) >+ Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding >in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF >+ I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C > >Please let me know if I need to provide any additional information. > >All the best, Natasha > >Natalia (Natasha) Smith >Digitization Librarian >Wilson Library, CB#3918 >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 >email: natalia_smith at unc.edu >tel. (919) 962-9590 >fax (919) 962-4452 >http://docsouth.unc.edu/ From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Feb 26 21:12:35 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:12:35 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020226211212.02807bc0@pop3.norton.antivirus> I will send our felicitations and regrets. J. >Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:42:23 -0800 (PST) >From: Gregory Murphy >X-Sender: gjmurphy at gris >To: John Unsworth >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation > > >John, > >I no longer think that I will able to recommend myself to the SGML->XML >working group. I've got a big chunk of vacation coming up, over a month, >which I think I will use to go someplace without computers. Also, my family >will be growing in the early Fall, and since we have no relatives near us, >I'll be doing a lot of duty as house-dad. > >Good luck, wish I could lend a hand. > >// Gregory Murphy From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 27 15:00:56 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:00:56 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Migrating TEI Resources to XML Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020227150021.01d60b38@pop3.norton.antivirus> Another volunteer. Please be prepared to express an opinion, on Friday, concerning the chairmanship of this workgroup. Thanks, John >Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:18:17 +0100 >From: Tobias Rischer >To: tei at tei-c.org >Cc: hans-walter.gabler at anglistik.uni-muenchen.de >Subject: Migrating TEI Resources to XML >X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i >Sender: Tobias Rischer > > - Application for the XML migration workgroup - > > > Munich, February 27, 2002 > >Dear people of the TEI, > >I have heard only a few days ago that the TEI is forming a work group to >"explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI >resources from SGML to XML" and that they are inviting potential >participants. Hans-Walter Gabler (1) encouraged me to actually send you >this application. > >I would be quite interested to participate in the role of >"representative of a project", but I think I can also claim some >knowledge on the technical aspects of TEI/SGML and data migration. > >The project I could represent is, in the narrow sense, the Critical and >Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses, the SGML form of which came >into being as part of my diploma thesis (2). In a broader sense, I >could be the contact person to the Graduiertenkolleg Textkritik der >Universitt Mnchen (3) and its projects. It is directed (even: >conducted) by Hans-Walter Gabler and we have cooperated in close and >friendly contact for years. I have been involved as an advisor and >programmer in several of the dissertation projects at the >Graduiertenkolleg. > >My personal background is a solid foundation in Computer Science and a >slightly less solid, but still comfortable education in literature, with >a focus on textual criticism. I have received my diploma degree from >the Technical University of Munich in Computer Science and English >Literature in 1997. I have followed the activities of the TEI with >strong interest in the mid- and late 90s, after the TEI P3 guidelines >came out, and I have taken part in discussions on the TEI mailing list >during that period. > >A curriculum vitae (with a bias towards "hard computing") is available >on my web site (4). Feel free to contact me for any further >information. > >With best regards, > > Tobias Rischer > > >References: > >(1) > >(2) http://rischer.com/diplom.html > >(3) http://www.textkritik.uni-muenchen.de/ > >(4) http://rischer.com/profile-e.pdf > >-- >............................................. > (_) Tobias Rischer > "===' tobias at rischer.com > " " >...still.loving.GNU.......................... From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 08:49:37 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:49:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Volunteer for migration of TEI-SGML to TEI-XML Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228084931.01d13230@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:24:13 +0100 >X-Sender: U03267 at aitana.cpd.ua.es >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) >To: tei at tei-c.org >From: Alejandro Bia >Subject: Volunteer for migration of TEI-SGML to TEI-XML >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by >jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU id FAA24602 > >I'd like to volunteer as participant in the project about migration of large >bodies >of existing TEI resources from SGML to XML. My expertise is in data migration, >technical documentation and working with TEI-XML at the Miguel de Cervantes >Digital Library. > >I have a BS and a MS degree in Computer Sciences from ORT University, a >Diploma in Computing and Information Systems from Oxford University and >I'm finishing my PhD thesis on Computing Methods to Automate the Production of >Digital Resources in Digital Libraries at the University of Alicante, Spain. >Currently I'm working as Head of the Research and Development dept. of the >Miguel >de Cervantes Digital Library at the University of Alicante. > >In the past I've worked as Special-Projects Manager at NetGate (1996), >Documentation Editor of the GeneXus project at Advanced Research and >Technology >(ARTech) (1991-1994), and worked at the Telephone Traffic Processing Unit of >ANTEL (1994-1989). I've lectured on Operating Systems, Computer Organization, >Computer Networks and English for Computer Sciences at ORT University >(1990-1996). My current interests are digitisation automation by computer >methods, >digital preservation, digitisation metrics and cost estimates, texts >structuring and >markup languages. > >Kind regards, >Alejandro Bia.- > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >At 12:01 a.m. 09/02/02 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:38:57 -0500 > >From: John Unsworth > >Subject: TEI call for participation > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > > >Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML > > > >The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National > >Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to > >conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase > >of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision > >of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase > >will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI > >resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup > >in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely > >with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > >(another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and > >tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in > >TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up > >meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project > >representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation > >by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the > >TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people; > >and one two-day meeting for 18 people. > > > >The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than > >March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and > >TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish > >to volunteer, please contact > > > >tei at tei-c.org > > > >by February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data migration > >expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML > >holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your > >qualifications. > > > >John Unsworth > >Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium > >Content-ID: <3873 at LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU> > >Content-Type: message/rfc822 > > >--------------------------------------------------------- >ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS >e-mail: abia at dlsi.ua.es, alex.bia at ua.es > >Trabajo: > Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica > Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes > Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 > http://cervantesvirtual.com/ > >Investigaci?n: > Dept. de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos > Universidad de Alicante, DLSI-EPSA > Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN > Tel: 34-96-590 9335 Fax: 34-96-590 3464 > http://www.dlsi.ua.es/ > >Domicilio: > Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E > Alicante, SPAIN CP:03016 > >--------------------------------------------------------- From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 08:57:47 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:57:47 -0500 Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228085724.03365770@pop3.norton.antivirus> From one of our own, and nominating another. John >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:35:55 +0100 (MET) >From: Tomaz Erjavec >To: John Unsworth >Cc: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si >Subject: TEI call for participation >X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020218 / Sophos+Sophie >X-Razor-id: e3d300960f41db69852c6cec7a4f131ba1422803 > >Dear John, >it seems to me that the quota isn't filled yet, also, that there has >been little response from the NLP community, so I'd like to volunteer >as somebody with "significant TEI holdings". > >The TEI encoded resources I have worked on, have access to and would >like to see migrated are: >- the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel >- the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel >- the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference >- the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample > >However, if it turns out that I could be more useful as a TEI expert, >that is fine too. > >And while I'm at it: how about Sebastian chairing the WG? > >Best, >Tomaz > > > > Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML > > > > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National > > Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to > > conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase > > of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision > > of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second > phase > > will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI > > resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup > > in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely > > with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > > (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and > > tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in > > TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one > start-up > > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project > > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation > > by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors > and the > > TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people; > > and one two-day meeting for 18 people. > > > > The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than > > March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, > XML, and > > TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish > > to volunteer, please contact > > > > tei at tei-c.org > > > > by February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data migration > > expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML > > holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your > > qualifications. > > > > John Unsworth > > Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 19:36:17 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:36:17 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: 15.494 TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228193612.03347620@pop3.norton.antivirus> >Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:58:02 -0800 (PST) >From: Sally Thomas >To: tei at tei-c.org >cc: Nancy Kushigian >Subject: Re: 15.494 TEI call for participation > >Hello John Unsworth, > >I am interested in participating in the proposed workgroup of the TEI in >regards to migrating TEI resources from SGML to XML. I am the associate >director of the University of California History Digital Archives, a >project co-sponsored by the Center for Studies in Higher Education and The >Bancroft Library, at UC Berkeley. (We anticipate that the site will >eventually be served from the California Digital Library.) > >A brief summary of our project can be found at: > >http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html > >Our project's prototype Web site can be found at: > >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/uchistory/ > >Our public TEI-Lite documents can be accessed at: > >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2020/dynaweb/teiproj/uchist/ > >The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a >password-protected working directory at: > >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/ > >login: teitest >pw: sgml > >Our project is in the first stage of creating a large body of >TEI-compliant documents related to the history of the systemwide >University of California. Our largest collections will include the >Minutes of the Board of Regents of the University of California, and the >minutes of the Academic Senate of the University of California, >post-World War II to present. > >I supervise the TEI SGML mark-up of our electronic documents and the >development of our HTML interface Web site. We plan to migrate our TEI >SGML documents to XML, but have so far focused our attention on the >development of our digital content in SGML. I am very interested in >participating in your workgroup as a representative of a project with a >significant TEI SGML holding, and would value an opportunity to gain practical >"hands-on" experience in migrating our collection to XML. > >In the process of developing our site, I have established ties to other >TEI SGML collections, including a significant project based at UC Davis: >British Women Romantic Poets, 1789-1832 (An Electronic Collection of Texts >from the Shields Library), edited by Nancy Kushigian, available online >at: > >http://www.lib.ucdavis.edu/English/BWRP/index.htm > >Dr. Kushigian started the BWRP project in 1997, and has since been >involved in the development of best-practice standards related to TEI SGML >markup, including "TEI Text Encoding in Libraries: Guidelines for Best >Encoding Practices" (1999), available at: >http://www.indiana.edu/~letrs/tei/. > >Dr. Kushigian is unable to participate in the proposed TEI SGML-XML >conversion workgroup, but has asked me -- if selected to participate >-- to represent her project. You can contact Dr. Kushigian via email at >njkushigian at ucdavis.edu or by phone at 530-754-4337. > >In reference to my academic background, I hold a BA in history from >Stanford University (1982) and a master's degree in Information Management >& Systems from UC Berkeley (1999). > >Please do not hesitate to contact me if you should need more information. >I would appreciate you responding to this email to acknowledge its >receipt. > >Sincerely, > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Sally Thomas >Associate Director/Digital Librarian >University of California History Digital Archives >Center for Studies in Higher Education >South Hall Annex #4650 >University of California >Berkeley, CA 94720-4650 >sthomas at library.berkeley.edu 510-643-0116 >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Office Located in Room 44A, The Bancroft Library > >On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Humanist Discussion Group (by way of Willard McCarty >) wrote: > > > Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 494. > > Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:28:30 +0000 > > From: John Unsworth > > Subject: TEI call for participation > > > > > > Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML > > > > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National > > Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to > > conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase > > of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision > > of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase > > will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI > > resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup > > in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely > > with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > > (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and > > tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in > > TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up > > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project > > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation > > by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the > > TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people; > > and one two-day meeting for 18 people. > > > > The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than > > March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and > > TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish > > to volunteer, please contact > > > > tei at tei-c.org > > > > by Friday, February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data > > migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI > > SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your > > qualifications. > > > > John Unsworth > > Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Mar 1 17:37:47 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:37:47 -0500 Subject: Fwd: 15.494 TEI call for participation (fwd) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301173717.01d15ff8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Chris is asst. director at the UVa Etext Center. J. >Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:41:22 -0500 (EST) >From: Christine Ruotolo >To: jmu2m at virginia.edu >MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at >mail.virginia.edu >Subject: 15.494 TEI call for participation (fwd) > > >John, > >Are you still looking for working group volunteers? I'd like to >participate. As for my qualifications relative to those categories -- >I've used TEI for 5+ years, I work for a library division with thousands >of SGML and XML TEI objects, and I will be increasingly involved with >SGML > XML migration. Let me know if you need a more formal statement or >something. > >Thanks, >Chris > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 07:30:52 +0000 >From: "Humanist Discussion Group (by way of Willard McCarty > )" >To: humanist at Princeton.EDU >Subject: 15.494 TEI call for participation > > Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 494. > Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London > > > > > > Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:28:30 +0000 > From: John Unsworth > Subject: TEI call for participation > > >Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML > >The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National >Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to >conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase >of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision >of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase >will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI >resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup >in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely >with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings >(another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and >tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in >TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up >meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project >representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation >by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the >TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people; >and one two-day meeting for 18 people. > >The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than >March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and >TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish >to volunteer, please contact > >tei at tei-c.org > >by Friday, February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data >migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI >SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your >qualifications. > >John Unsworth >Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Mar 3 20:44:45 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Folks, Here are the names of those who have nominated themselves for our NEH-funded SGML-XML migration workgroup. Greg Murphy, Sun Microsystems, is missing from this list because he nominated himself and then withdrew his nomination. If I have missed anyone, please let me know. The NEH workplan calls for: A Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which selected TEI experts (6) and editors (2) work closely with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. Our editors, of course, are Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman. As you know, we've had a number of volunteers: I have grouped those, below, into migration experts, repository representatives, and questionable self-nominations. Obviously, a number of these repository representatives could be migration experts; the reverse is not necessarily true, and the questionable nominations don't (to my mind) fit well in either category. I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let the chair sort the group into the two categories, and issue invitations to fill the remaining seats. Unless there's dissent on this procedural question, then Council members need to express an opinion on two points: A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below). B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and dismissed? If you dissent on the procedure, please do so immediately. Otherwise, please vote on those two questions as soon as you can. John ---------------------- Nominations for Chair: Sebastian Rahtz (Tomaz Erjavec): Sebastian, you haven't actually volunteered for this, so please indicate whether you are willing to chair the workgroup, if appointed. Chris Powell (Matthew Driscoll, seconded Perry Willett). Chris volunteered, and she was suggested by John Price-Wilkin as an alternate. I think we can assume she would serve if appointed. Other nominations for chair may be made, but they should be drawn from the list of volunteers, below, I think.

TEI Migration Experts: [Sebastian Rahtz, if he agrees to serve on the workgroup, as chair or otherwise] Syun Tutiya Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University Faculty of Letters, Chiba University http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0083.html

TEI Repository Representatives: 1. Chris Powell Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/ Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/ http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0079.html 2. Natalia Smith + Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth + 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending CETH Summer seminar in 1995) + Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF + I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0108.html 3. John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0084.html 5. Michael Popham Head of the Oxford Text Archive http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/ http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0090.html 6. dr. Frans Wiering e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0104.html 7. Alejandro Bia Head of the Research and Development dept. of the Miguel de Cervantes Digital Library at the University of Alicante. http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0111.html 8. Sally Thomas Associate Director of the University of California History Digital Archives http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a password-protected working directory at: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/ login: teitest pw: sgml http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0113.html 9. Christine Ruotolo Associate Director, Electronic Text Center University of Virginia http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0114.html 10. Tomaz Erjavec - the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel - the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel - the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference - the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0112.html

Questionable self-nominations-- Vika Zafrin Works on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at Brown University. http://www.brown.edu/decameron/ http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0100.html Tobias Rischer The Critical and Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses (under the direction of Hans Walter Gabler) http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0110.html From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Mar 3 22:25:41 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:25:41 +0900 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one > of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to > his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I > would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below). I vote for Sebastian, if he is willing to serve, otherwise for Chris Powell. > > B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and > dismissed? I would think that should be up to the chair to judge. Tobias Rischer does have some proven expertise in migrating from TuSTEP to SGML, which could prove valuable in the current project. All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Sun Mar 3 22:41:25 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:41:25 +0100 (MET) Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203040341.EAA05949@obelix.ijs.si> Christian Wittern writes: > John Unsworth writes: > > > A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one > > of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to > > his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I > > would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below). > > I vote for Sebastian, if he is willing to serve, otherwise for Chris Powell. Same here. > > B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and > > dismissed? > > I would think that should be up to the chair to judge. Tobias Rischer > does have some proven expertise in migrating from TuSTEP to SGML, > which could prove valuable in the current project. I would also recommend that Tobias be voted in. Also, it might be wise to wait to see if we can in fact fill all the positions before dismissing willing volunteers. But yes, the chair should make the decision. Best, Tomaz -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Mar 3 22:51:55 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:51:55 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <15490.61275.560566.845766@mama.stg.brown.edu> > I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then > forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation > that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let > the chair sort the group into the two categories, For reasons I can't entirely explain, I'd prefer the Council appoint one of the two groups (experts or repository representatives) leaving the other to the Chair; or that the Council give the chair two separate (but possibly overlapping, I suppose) lists from which to choose. I guess I'm leaning towards a bit more Council involvement than the procedure John suggests. On the other hand, given that there are only a total of 14 people for the 16 positions, perhaps I should stop worrying.

> A. Who should chair this group? ... Sebastian My personal take is that, despite being an obvious expert extraordinaire, Sebastian is too valuable in his current role as XSLT & Relax NG dude to be spared for chairing the group. From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Mar 4 03:48:55 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:48:55 +0100 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C834307.16861.191BCC@localhost> From: John Unsworth > > A. Who should chair this group? Chris Powell

> B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be > thanked and dismissed? No. I would like to see Tobias Rischer on the list. He has studied with Brueggemann-Klein and Gabler, probably one of the best combinations of computer science and humanities computing you can find in Germany; and he has worked for years now with very different richly tagged texts. Fotis From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 04:27:05 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:27:05 +0000 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020304092705.GE26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I need to hold off replying on this chairing or serving business until I have discussed it with my management. I'd not feel happy working on the project unless I was able to use even more of my work time on the TEI than I do already. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 06:57:31 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:57:31 +0000 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020304115731.GK26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:44:45PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one > of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to > his willingness to serve if appointed. After discussion with management, Sebastian is willing but unable, I am afraid. The proportion of my time I can realistically devote to the TEI would not be able to cover the commitment that would be necessary. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Mar 4 08:00:40 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:00:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one > of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to > his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I > would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below). Chris Powell. > B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and > dismissed? It doesn't seem from the documentation (either the Decameron website for Zafrin or the links to Rischer's CV etc.) that either would qualify as working with "significant TEI holdings," nor is it clear what their contributions to their respective projects have been. Others may have some personal knowledge to bring to the discussion, but from the documentation alone I'd have to vote "yes".

Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 08:32:37 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:32:37 +0000 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <15490.61275.560566.845766@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020304133237.GS26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > > For reasons I can't entirely explain, I'd prefer the Council appoint > one of the two groups (experts or repository representatives) leaving > the other to the Chair; or that the Council give the chair two > separate (but possibly overlapping, I suppose) lists from which to > choose. I guess I'm leaning towards a bit more Council involvement > than the procedure John suggests. > > On the other hand, given that there are only a total of 14 people for > the 16 positions, perhaps I should stop worrying. Um. I am tending towards Syd's view. Giving the chair *all* the choice seems a slight cop-out. I'd ask her (if no other candidate appears) to recommend to the Council how she proposes to use the list of volunteers and we'd very likely endorse it. But the formal letter should then come from the Council. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 10:03:59 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:03:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <200203040341.EAA05949@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: I don't have a vote, and would be happy with either Sebastian or Chris as head of the group. If you are asking my opinion though, I think Chris would be a great accession to our scarce human resources, and not just because she's female! I also share the general warm feeling about Tobias Rischer. It is of course down to the chair of the workgroup to decide who they have on their groups, but my feeling that he ought to be recommended to the chair by the Council seems to command perhaps more support than John's earlier message implied I should add that Sebastian will certainly be in a position to provide technical input to the group where needed. Stay tuned for an announcement about P4!!! Lou From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 09:18:06 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:18:06 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <3C834307.16861.191BCC@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304090453.01d1c570@pop3.norton.antivirus> For those who haven't yet voted: Since Sebastian has withdrawn his name, Chris would appear to be our only active nominee for chair of the workgroup. Any dissent on designating her chair? Also, a number of people have corrected my ranking of Tobias Rischer, so I will move him into the experts category, for our recommendations to the chair. No one, so far, has dissented on my ranking of Zafrin. Sebastian and Syd have argued that the Council ought to do more than appoint the chair and pass our recommendations along. I refer them to EDW54, the "Rules and Recommendations for TEI Workgroup Procedures," which says: Membership in a TEI work group is normally controlled by the work group head, though the TEI Council may impose particular requirements on the membership, or may name individual members of the work group. We have imposed the requirement that 10 members of the workgroup represent repositories, and (luckily) ten plausible representatives have volunteered. Unless we decide otherwise, we will pass those ten names along to the workgroup chair with our recommendation to include them. Unless we decide otherwise, we'll do the same with at least two, probably three, of the six experts. I would expect the Chair to accept those recommendations, and I think we ought to leave the Chair a little room for the 'normal control' of membership in the workgroup. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 09:21:25 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:21:25 +0000 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304090453.01d1c570@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020304142125.GV26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 09:18:06AM -0500, John Unsworth wrote: > Since Sebastian has withdrawn his name, Chris would appear to be our only > active nominee for chair of the workgroup. Any dissent on designating her > chair? not from me > volunteered. Unless we decide otherwise, we will pass those ten names > along to the workgroup chair with our recommendation to include > them. Unless we decide otherwise, we'll do the same with at least two, > probably three, of the six experts. I would expect the Chair to accept > those recommendations, and I think we ought to leave the Chair a little > room for the 'normal control' of membership in the workgroup. ok, I don't think I differ much from that. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Mar 4 11:14:17 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:14:17 -0800 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304080831.00ad2088@notes.rlg.org> A tardy response (apparently I being in the Pacific Time Zone is a disadvantage!) Having worked with Sally Thomas, I can say that she is not qualified to participate in this group, and move that her name be removed from the list. I can give a long diatribe, or you can trust me on this. I would not want to inflict her on our chair, and I think someone else who represents the interests of UC could be located. I think Chris would do a great job chairing the group. Merrilee At 08:44 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Folks, > >Here are the names of those who have nominated themselves for our >NEH-funded SGML-XML migration workgroup. Greg Murphy, Sun Microsystems, >is missing from this list because he nominated himself and then withdrew >his nomination. If I have missed anyone, please let me know. > >The NEH workplan calls for: > > A Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which > selected TEI experts (6) and editors (2) work closely with > representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > (another 10 > people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools > necessary > to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. > >Our editors, of course, are Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman. As you know, >we've had a number of volunteers: I have grouped those, below, into >migration experts, repository representatives, and questionable >self-nominations. Obviously, a number of these repository representatives >could be migration experts; the reverse is not necessarily true, and the >questionable nominations don't (to my mind) fit well in either category. > >I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then >forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation >that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let >the chair sort the group into the two categories, and issue invitations to >fill the remaining seats. Unless there's dissent on this procedural >question, then Council members need to express an opinion on two points: > >A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one >of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to >his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I >would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below). > >B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked >and dismissed? > >If you dissent on the procedure, please do so immediately. Otherwise, >please vote on those two questions as soon as you can. > >John > >---------------------- > >Nominations for Chair: > >Sebastian Rahtz (Tomaz Erjavec): Sebastian, you haven't actually >volunteered for this, so please indicate whether you are willing to chair >the workgroup, if appointed. > >Chris Powell (Matthew Driscoll, seconded Perry Willett). Chris >volunteered, and she was suggested by John Price-Wilkin as an >alternate. I think we can assume she would serve if appointed. > >Other nominations for chair may be made, but they should be drawn from the >list of volunteers, below, I think. > > >TEI Migration Experts: > >[Sebastian Rahtz, if he agrees to serve on the workgroup, as chair or >otherwise] > >Syun Tutiya >Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University >Faculty of Letters, Chiba University >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0083.html > > > >TEI Repository Representatives: > >1. Chris Powell >Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/ >Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/ >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0079.html > >2. Natalia Smith >+ Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth >+ 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending >CETH Summer seminar in 1995) >+ Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding >in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF >+ I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0108.html > >3. John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies >Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services > >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0084.html > >5. Michael Popham >Head of the Oxford Text Archive >http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/ >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0090.html > >6. dr. Frans Wiering >e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl >Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0104.html > >7. Alejandro Bia >Head of the Research and Development dept. of the Miguel de Cervantes >Digital Library at the University of Alicante. >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0111.html > >8. Sally Thomas >Associate Director of the University of California History Digital Archives >http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html >The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a >password-protected working directory at: >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/ >login: teitest >pw: sgml >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0113.html > >9. Christine Ruotolo >Associate Director, Electronic Text Center >University of Virginia >http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/ >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0114.html > >10. Tomaz Erjavec >- the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel >- the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel >- the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference >- the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0112.html > > >Questionable self-nominations-- >Vika Zafrin >Works on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at >Brown University. >http://www.brown.edu/decameron/ >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0100.html > >Tobias Rischer >The Critical and Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses >(under the direction of Hans Walter Gabler) >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0110.html From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Mon Mar 4 10:44:59 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:44:59 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Dear all, It looks like the issue of chair is decided and it will be Chris. On the issue of the participants I would forward the list to Chris and leave it up to her. We should give her some room to add people that she needs as the project evolves while also enlisting anyone who volunteers in good faith. yours, Geoffrey R. -- From david at dynamicdiagrams.com Mon Mar 4 11:48:04 2002 From: david at dynamicdiagrams.com (David G. Durand) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:48:04 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I didn't see Jessica on the list. Are there two migration projects, or are you only looking for a certain subset of the group at the moment. -- David From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 12:11:52 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:11:52 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304080831.00ad2088@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304121038.01d7fd00@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 08:14 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote: >A tardy response (apparently I being in the Pacific Time Zone is a >disadvantage!) > >Having worked with Sally Thomas, I can say that she is not qualified to >participate in this group, and move that her name be removed from the >list. I can give a long diatribe, or you can trust me on this. I would >not want to inflict her on our chair, and I think someone else who >represents the interests of UC could be located. Duly noted. I will remove her from the list of recommended participants.

>I think Chris would do a great job chairing the group. It's looking like Chris may be our unanimous choice. J. From david at dynamicdiagrams.com Mon Mar 4 12:17:58 2002 From: david at dynamicdiagrams.com (David G. Durand) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:17:58 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My previous note was intended for John Unsworth and probably won't make sense to the rest of you. Apologies. -- David From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 13:38:14 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:38:14 +0000 (GMT) Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304121038.01d7fd00@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I have just updated the website/s with what the editors hope to be more or less the final version of P4X, the XML version of P4 we plan to publish by the end of March. We'd be very grateful for notice of any obvious typographic blunders or major errors introduced during revision, as soon as possible. Send them to editors at tei-c.org so that both Syd and I will get a chance to act on them. Since the last version you saw, we have - revised the chapter on XML substantially - completely rewritten the chapter on charactersets (with much appreciated help from the teichars working group) - corrected zillions of stupid formatting blunders in examples etc. - changed the stylesheets so as to include parents and children in the tagdoc reference materials -- remove residual references to SGML -- oh all sorts of other things i can't remember, but syd probably can

All we plan to do now is fix any remaining really stupid errors, and possibly also: - add a bit on linking to HTML pages as per action from the London meeting (David D?) - maybe partition the tagset reference material so that the auxiliary tagsets are separated out But this is basically it. Excelsior! on to P5! Lou pp Syd From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 12:41:28 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:41:28 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304124057.01d1dff0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:48 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I didn't see Jessica on the list. Are there two migration projects, or are >you only looking for a certain subset of the group at the moment.

Sorry David--that's an oversight on my part. She should be listed in the "experts" category, and I'll add her to my list there. John From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Mar 4 14:57:55 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:57:55 -0500 Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15491.53699.349354.880394@mama.stg.brown.edu> > -- oh all sorts of other things i can't remember, but syd > probably can Nope. If need be could look them up, of course, but don't remember anything of significance Lou didn't mention.

> All we plan to do now is fix any remaining really stupid errors, > and possibly also: However, remember that the catagory "really stupid errors" still includes whitespace in examples. I had scheduled to start on those today, but I am just finishing my e-mail now ... From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Mar 4 15:25:12 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:25:12 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <15491.55336.786327.364736@mama.stg.brown.edu> > B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin ... be thanked and > dismissed? I've met Vika (being as it we're both from Brown, that shouldn't suprise anyone, I suppose -- but I met her at ACH/ALLC in NYC!), and while my recollection is that she is young, energetic, smart, and interesting enough that we'd like to keep her interested in TEI, I don't think the Decameron project (great project though it may be) qualifies for this workgroup. Structurally a *very* intersting, quite large work, but it's not actually in TEI. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 18:42:55 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:42:55 +0000 Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: <15491.53699.349354.880394@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020304234255.GL864@spqr-dell> Apropos of various discussions in the past, there is also now a version of P4 which is "cooked" to conform to the TEI Lite DTD. It is extremely untested, and I don't propose to put it on the web site, but it exists if anyone would like a copy sent individually to experiment with. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 21:40:16 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:40:16 -0500 Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304213846.0287cd20@pop3.norton.antivirus> In addition to saying thank you to Lou and Syd for the recent work on P4, can I also say that it will make P4 much more valuable to the average user if they do, in fact: >- add a bit on linking to HTML pages as per action from the London meeting >(David D?) John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Mar 5 22:09:52 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:09:52 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305220342.02ca3730@pop3.norton.antivirus> Since there's been no further discussion on the question of the chair for the NEH workgroup, and no dissent from the suggestion that Chris be appointed chair, I'm going to go ahead and appoint her, on behalf of the Council, and pass along to her the names of other volunteers, and our recommendations with respect to them. I haven't forgotten that I still need to come up with a formal charter for this group (and for our other two existing workgroups): I'll be travelling from March 7-15, and on jury duty after that, but some time this month I will circulate a draft of the charter here, and then when it's approved, I'll pass it along to Chris. Thanks for your help in all of this, John From mjd at hum.ku.dk Wed Mar 6 03:23:36 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:23:36 +0100 Subject: NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305220342.02ca3730@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C85E018.14987.2B6C5E@localhost> I've been in darkest Sweden for the last couple of days, lecturing (to a bunch of old age pensioners, as it happened), so I appear to have missed all the fun. Still, as I originally nominated Chris (whom I do not know), I'm obviously happy with the choice of her as chair. On the other matter that's been under discussion - a number of years ago I met Tobias Rischer, who struck me as being an energetic young man with a lot of interesting ideas; on the basis of that meeting I would certainly say that he was fit to serve on the working group. The fact that he's German is probably not a bad thing either. Matthew From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Mar 7 22:09:30 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 04:09:30 +0100 (MET) Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200203080309.EAA23998@obelix.ijs.si> I noticed is that the figures (png) didnt come through in the html version, e.g. http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/SG.html#SG152 http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/SA.html#SAPTEG

Another usability issue is the ToC, but I guess you wont want to change this this late in the day. But what I'd really like is the the index page to have only the ToC for , max , which would make it a lot more readable. And then a special page with the full Toc (in addition to the ToCs in the separate files of course). Best, Tomaz

Lou Burnard writes: > > I have just updated the website/s with what the editors hope to be more or > less the final version of P4X, the XML version of P4 we plan to publish by > the end of March. > > We'd be very grateful for notice of any obvious typographic blunders or > major errors introduced during revision, as soon as possible. Send them to > editors at tei-c.org so that both Syd and I will get a chance to act on > them. > > Since the last version you saw, we have > > - revised the chapter on XML substantially > > - completely rewritten the chapter on charactersets (with much appreciated > help from the teichars working group) > > - corrected zillions of stupid formatting blunders in examples etc. > > - changed the stylesheets so as to include parents and children in the > tagdoc reference materials > > -- remove residual references to SGML > > -- oh all sorts of other things i can't remember, but syd probably can > > > All we plan to do now is fix any remaining really stupid errors, and > possibly also: > > - add a bit on linking to HTML pages as per action from the London meeting > (David D?) > > - maybe partition the tagset reference material so that the auxiliary > tagsets are separated out > > But this is basically it. > > Excelsior! on to P5! > > Lou pp Syd > > > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Mar 8 05:58:37 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:58:37 +0000 Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: <200203080309.EAA23998@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: <20020308105837.GB7402@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 04:09:30AM +0100, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > Another usability issue is the ToC, but I guess you wont want to > change this this late in the day. > But what I'd really like is the the index page to have only the ToC > for , max , which would make it a lot more readable. And > then a special page with the full Toc (in addition to the ToCs in the > separate files of course). final formatting of the HTML is stalled for the moment while we finish the PDF; but I'll come back to the TOC and so as you suggest after Easter. will check the missing PNG as well. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Mar 9 10:40:33 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:40:33 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: new section for P4 on HTML linking Message-ID: As actioned in London, I have now drafted some extra text for the chapter on external linking to document how HTML-style linking should be represented in TEI documents. Comments from the Council would be much appreciated: though the window for change is VERY SMALL! There is much that could be added, obviously, but I think this is a bare minimum which is at least not actually wrong. I have not yet updated the website/s with this new material, or the other revisions I hope to complete this weekend but that should happen early next week Lou --------- I have added the following paragraph at the end of the section introducing the extended pointer syntax (i.e. immediately before the start of 14.2.1) ---

The most widespread application of such external document linking is, of course, provided by the World Wide Web. The original version of these Guidelines did not provide specific guidance concerning the representation of simple HTML linking in TEI, since the Guidelines predate the wide take-up of HTML as a means to this end. For the present edition, a brief note on recommended ways of providing this capability in TEI documents has been added below (). ---

and the following subsection 14.2.4 following the current 14.2.3

--- Representation of HTML links in TEI

As we have indicated, linking to another document (in any format) should be done by means of the xref or xptr element, the former being used if some text is to be supplied to identify the title of the intended link, the latter if it is not. HTML documents may also be linked to in this way. In either case, it is the responsibility of the processor to determine what the target URL for the link should be. In canonical TEI, this target must be supplied as a predefined external entity, the name of which is supplied as the value of the doc attribute on the pointer element concerned: This is discussed in The TEI Guidelines

]]> or, equivalently, This is discussed in

]]>

In either case, the DTD must also include a declaration for the external entity TEIP3, which a processor can use to determine the intended URL, such as the following: ]]

The target of a link of this kind must always be a complete document. If it is desired to link to some element within the target HTML document, the from attribute may be used to specify its identifier: This is discussed in The chapter on linking

]]> This is equivalent to the following HTML link: This is discussed in the chapter on linking ]]> and assumes that somewhere in the target document there exists an a element whose name attribute has the value SAPT, which will be the target of the above URL. (If the target is an XML document, then the assumption is that there exists somewhere within it an element whose id attribute has the value SAPT) Note that it is illegal to supply a URL like the example above as value for an external entity.

The requirement to predefine all target URLs as external entities has some obvious advantages, from the point of view of simplifying the maintenance of a suite of reliable links. It may be easier to maintain a single document containing declarations for all external links than to search through a large suite of documents checking that each link is still valid. However, it may also be regarded as an unnecessary additional chore; it also depends on the ability to define and embed external entity declarations, which may not be appropriate in an XML processing environment.

For these reasons, TEI encoders may wish to declare an additional attribute url for the elements xptr and xref. Since in XML it is permissable to add attributes to an existing element by means of an additional ATTLIST declaration, all that is needed is to provide a DOCTYPE declaration like the following: ]> ]]>

A document with these additional declarations can then simply specify the intended target of a cross-reference using the new url attribute without further formality: This is discussed in the chapter on linking ]]>

This extension is not currently a formal recommendation of the TEI Guidelines. Its use is not recommended in documents intended for interchange.

It is often convenient to specify the URL from which a document is canonically available within the document itself. This should be done witin the publicationStmt of the document's TEI Header () as in the following example: Made available by the TEI Consortium at http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines> ]]> or, equivalently, any of the following: Made available by the TEI Consortium at Made available by the TEI Consortium at ]]>

--- From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Mar 9 11:34:06 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:34:06 +0000 Subject: new section for P4 on HTML linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020309163406.GD4413@spqr-dell> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 03:40:33PM +0000, Lou Burnard wrote: >

The most widespread application of such external document linking > is, of course, provided by the World Wide Web. The original version of > these Guidelines did not provide specific guidance concerning the > representation of simple HTML linking in TEI, since the Guidelines ^^^^ "HTML-like"? >

As we have indicated, linking to another document (in any format) > should be done by means of the xref or xptr element, > the former being used if some text is to be supplied to identify the > title of the intended link, the latter if it is not. HTML documents > may also be linked to in this way. last sentence redundant. they are included in "(in any format)" >

In either case, the DTD must also include a declaration for the > external entity TEIP3, which a processor can use to determine > the intended URL, such as the following: > > ]] if HTML is declared as a notation.... >

For these reasons, TEI encoders may wish to declare an additional > attribute url for the elements xptr and > xref and mention

as well, please! -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Mar 9 13:49:08 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:49:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: website updates Message-ID: In the rush to complete P4, I have to apologise for having forgotten to announce the following additional bits of news to the list. * publication of the first edition of the TEI Newsletter (see http://www.tei-c.org/News/Letter) * publication of a new TEI Activities section on the TEI website (see http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/) All the hard work on these has been done by Stuart Brown, to whom also apologies for the delay. These changes are not yet visible from the toplevel of the website, but will be shortly. Comments/corrections would be most welcome! Lou From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sat Mar 9 14:03:21 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:03:21 -0500 Subject: new section for P4 on HTML linking In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15498.23673.664567.564627@mama.stg.brown.edu> > As actioned in London, ... text for ... how HTML-style linking > should be represented in TEI documents. Yay!

> representation of simple HTML linking in TEI, since the Guidelines Sebastian objects to the use of "HTML" as an adjective. I agree, but I think I'd prefer "HTML-style links". Perhaps you can find a better wording for the whole clause; I haven't come up with one.

> predate the wide take-up of HTML as a means to this end. For the c/wide take-up/widespread adoption/ ?

>

As we have indicated, linking to another document (in any > format) ... HTML documents may also be linked to in this way. Sebastian points out that "HTML ... way." is redundant. While I think he's correct, I think a little redundancy here is good. Perhaps toning it down a bit would help, though. The following suggestion also allows "either way" to be closer to the dichotomy it refers to:

As we have indicated, linking to another document (in any format, including HTML) should be done by means of the xref or xptr element, the former being used if some text is to be supplied to identify the title of the intended link, the latter if it is not. In either case, it is the responsibility of the processor ...

>

This is discussed in The TEI Guidelines Why use P3 as an example? At least P4, no? Or perhaps the archives of this discussion? :-)

> > ]] pqr> if HTML is declared as a notation ... Indeed. Should we go so far as to provide NOTATION declarations for HTML (and perhaps XML, WSD, and FSD)?

> href="http://www.tei-c.org/TEI/Guidelines/#SAPT"> I think users might be more comfortable if the example included an explicit document, e.g. "http://duck.org/bill/platypus.html#Quack". It also might be nice if the example were real. There is no element with name=SAPT in http://www.tei-c.org/TEI/Guidelines/index.html, There is, however, in http://www.tei-c.org/TEI/Guidelines/SA.htm. (But it would be more apropos to use #SAXR, which is the name= of the section on extended pointers, anyway.)

> ... (If the target is an XML document, then the assumption is that > there exists somewhere within it an element whose id > attribute has the value SAPT) ... Not quite correct, although perhaps this is one of those cases where being completely correct is too confusing to be worth it. For any target (all targets should be SGML or XML, whether HTML, TEI, or some other DTD), the assumption is that there exists within the target document an element which has as the value of its attribute of declared type ID the value "SAPT". In HTML such attributes are named name=; in TEI they are named id=; in the FOOBAR DTD they are named snafu=.

> ... Note that it is illegal to supply a URL like the example above > as value for an external entity. ^^^ At least need to insert the definite article "the". Might be better to explain what the problem with it is: Note that it is illegal to supply a URL that is anything other than a pointer to a document (like the example above, which includes a [1]) as value for an external entity.

> ... it also depends on the ability to define and embed external > entity declarations, which may not be appropriate in an XML > processing environment. I'm not sure I understand this.

> > > > > ]> > ]]> Need FPI, system identifier, TEI.XML declaration, and whitespace clean-up. I can take care of all this for you when you're done with the basics.

Oops; please forgive the didactic tone of some of the above; I had temporarily forgotten that the recipient list is the Council not TEI-L. Speaking of which, there are 2 members of the Council who are not on TEI-L, and only 2 who are on TEI-TECH (not the same 2 :-). While I'm sure it's not a requirement for membership in the Council, I think it would be a Good Thing™ for y'all to be on these lists.[2] If nothing else, it would certainly make discussing issues raised on those lists with the Council easier.

Notes ----- [1] Whatever you call the thing after the "#" in a URL. I scanned through the URL spec (http://www.w3.org/Addressing/URL/ url-spec.html) for a while but didn't figure it out. [2] I just started to wonder if my use of a character reference to the trademark symbol is covered by the same rules & regulations as use of the symbol itself, and if so, is it illegal to use it for a phrase that is not, in fact, trademarked? Hope I don't get arrested or sued. From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Mar 9 16:23:06 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:23:06 +0000 Subject: new section for P4 on HTML linking In-Reply-To: <15498.23673.664567.564627@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <20020309212306.GB863@spqr-dell> On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 02:03:21PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote: > > ... it also depends on the ability to define and embed external > > entity declarations, which may not be appropriate in an XML > > processing environment. > > I'm not sure I understand this. I suspect Lou thinks XML processors may not read the DTD subset; which is not true. They must read the DTD subset, but they do not have to read the DTD (so NOTATIONS declared in the DTD may not be read). Its also true to say that XML people may get used to no DTDs, or Schemas, and the whole DTD subset thing may be simply strange to them. I'd say ... it also depends on the mechanism of defining and embedding external entity declarations in a DTD subset, which may not be appropriate in some XML processing environments. > [2] I just started to wonder if my use of a character reference to > the trademark symbol is covered by the same rules & regulations > as use of the symbol itself, and if so, is it illegal to use it > for a phrase that is not, in fact, trademarked? Hope I don't get > arrested or sued. its ok, you have simply been added to the axis of evil. the bombers will call at dawn. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 11:14:54 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:14:54 +0000 (GMT) Subject: P4X -- last call? In-Reply-To: <20020308105837.GB7402@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 04:09:30AM +0100, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > > > Another usability issue is the ToC, but I guess you wont want to > > change this this late in the day. > > But what I'd really like is the the index page to have only the ToC > > for , max , which would make it a lot more readable. And > > then a special page with the full Toc (in addition to the ToCs in the > > separate files of course). > > final formatting of the HTML is stalled for the moment > while we finish the PDF; but I'll come back to the TOC > and so as you suggest after Easter. FWIW I agree with Tomasz and others that we need to do something about the TOC in the HTML version. And its background graphic.

> > will check the missing PNG as well. >

The PNGs are back. The mirroring software was ignoring them for some reason. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 11:55:39 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:55:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: new section for P4 on HTML linking In-Reply-To: <15498.23673.664567.564627@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Syd Bauman wrote: [various helpful comments] I have now revised this text considerably, adfdressing (I hope) the concerns raised. It will be on the website shortly (in an hour or so, I hope) L From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Mar 11 11:02:31 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:31 -0800 Subject: website updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020311075250.00ac4078@notes.rlg.org> Lou, Newsletter: A few nits: now that we have meeting minutes, could we point to those, in lieu of (in Lou of?) John's most excellent summary? Also the link from the site home page. The "Migrating TEI Resources to XML" news bit seems a little less newsworthy with the inclusion of the Feb 28th deadline. Maybe at this point it could say that volunteers have stepped forward and that the chair will appoint the group... Or maybe it's okay. I certainly get newsletters with already out of date information all the time. I like the activities page. Another comment on the site overall: would it be possible to put the "TEI Home | Search | Feedback" buttons at the top of each page in addition to at the bottom? It's nice to see this information getting out. Merrilee At 06:49 PM 3/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: >In the rush to complete P4, I have to apologise for having forgotten >to announce the following additional bits of news to the list. > >* publication of the first edition of the TEI Newsletter (see > http://www.tei-c.org/News/Letter) > >* publication of a new TEI Activities section on the TEI website (see > http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/) > >All the hard work on these has been done by Stuart Brown, to whom also >apologies for the delay. > >These changes are not yet visible from the toplevel of the >website, but will be shortly. > >Comments/corrections would be most welcome! > >Lou From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Mar 11 11:30:14 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:30:14 -0800 Subject: Ooops, more on the newsletter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020311082723.00adba10@notes.rlg.org> At 06:49 PM 3/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: > http://www.tei-c.org/News/Letter "The extension" announcement should be tagged as a div1, so that it turns up in your table on contents? Merrilee From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 11 13:20:46 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:20:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Ooops, more on the newsletter In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020311082723.00adba10@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: Thanks -- Tomas noted that needed a bit more prominence too. Will pass comments to Stuart when he gets back from the far east -- right now I've got my nose stuck to the P4X grindstone...

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Merrilee Proffitt wrote: > At 06:49 PM 3/9/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > http://www.tei-c.org/News/Letter > > "The extension" announcement should be tagged as a div1, so > that it turns up in your table on contents? > > Merrilee > > From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 14 18:04:20 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:04:20 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: wolf! wolf! wolf! Message-ID: This is absolutely and positively your last warning! The TEI editors have just about done with footling around with the text of P4! As of this coming weekend, we plan to FREEZE the text. Any substantive errors which remain in the text will just have to stay there till P5. We plan to spend the next week or so getting the page breaks, space usage, etc. right, and then that's it for P4. SO -- now would be a really good time to fire up your web browser and take a quick peek at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/ to see whether or not we've already fixed that error you were meaning to tell us about .... Lou and Syd From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 14 18:08:31 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:08:31 +0000 Subject: wolves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020314230831.GK1112@spqr-dell> Havoc! can you let slip the dogs of war, too? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Thu Mar 14 18:17:17 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:17:17 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: wolves In-Reply-To: <20020314230831.GK1112@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Not till next Tuesday. But I have found out why the xml catalog didnt work: I uploaded the wrong stupid stylesheet. But it needs tweaking to work with the changes I'm about to make to the FPI table anyway. On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Havoc! > > can you let slip the dogs of war, too? > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Mar 21 03:27:09 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:27:09 -0500 Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, Chris Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH workgroup. I have told those who volunteered that we would be back in touch with them soon--and that was some time ago--so there is some pressure now to appoint a chair, and to choose one who will accept the appointment. If we were to select a chair from the repository representatives who have volunteered, my choice would be Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots of energy, she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an alternative? Responses by Monday, please. John From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Thu Mar 21 10:39:53 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:39:53 -0500 Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Sounds good to me - Natasha it is. Geoffrey R. >For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, >Chris Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH >workgroup. I have told those who volunteered that we would be back >in touch with them soon--and that was some time ago--so there is >some pressure now to appoint a chair, and to choose one who will >accept the appointment. If we were to select a chair from the >repository representatives who have volunteered, my choice would be >Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots of energy, >she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI >collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an >alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > >John

-- From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Mar 21 10:54:13 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:54:13 -0800 Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020321075354.00aee030@notes.rlg.org> Natasha is a fine choice. Merrilee At 03:27 AM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, Chris >Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH workgroup. I have >told those who volunteered that we would be back in touch with them >soon--and that was some time ago--so there is some pressure now to appoint >a chair, and to choose one who will accept the appointment. If we were to >select a chair from the repository representatives who have volunteered, >my choice would be Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots >of energy, she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI >collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an >alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > >John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Mar 21 13:00:01 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:00:01 +0000 (GMT) Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've no problem with Natasha, but I feel I must record my deep disappointment that this is the second time we've failed to get someone from the HTI to take an active part in the TEI.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002,Geoffrey Rockwell wrote: > Sounds good to me - Natasha it is. > > Geoffrey R. > > >For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, > >Chris Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH > >workgroup. I have told those who volunteered that we would be back > >in touch with them soon--and that was some time ago--so there is > >some pressure now to appoint a chair, and to choose one who will > >accept the appointment. If we were to select a chair from the > >repository representatives who have volunteered, my choice would be > >Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots of energy, > >she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI > >collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an > >alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > > > >John > > > From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Mar 21 12:04:34 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:34 +0100 Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3C9A20B2.468.7EB2A5@localhost> +1 Fotis Jannidis Date sent: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 03:27:09 -0500 To: TEI Council From: John Unsworth Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, Chris > Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH workgroup. I > have told those who volunteered that we would be back in touch with > them soon--and that was some time ago--so there is some pressure now > to appoint a chair, and to choose one who will accept the appointment. > If we were to select a chair from the repository representatives who > have volunteered, my choice would be Natasha Smith, from the libraries > at UNC: she has lots of energy, she's well organized, and she has > experience working with TEI collections. Does anyone object to that > choice, or wish to offer an alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > > John > From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Mar 21 15:24:49 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:24:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Lou, I think your disappointment is unfounded. Remember, Chris was the first person to volunteer to serve on the committee. For whatever reason, she doesn't feel that she can chair it. Also, her contributions to the TEI in Libraries Task Force were significant, and demonstrate her commitment to the TEI. I'm disappointed that she won't chair this committee either, but I don't take it as a lack of commitment to the TEI on her, or the University of Michigan's, part. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, Chris > Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH workgroup. I have > told those who volunteered that we would be back in touch with them > soon--and that was some time ago--so there is some pressure now to appoint > a chair, and to choose one who will accept the appointment. If we were to > select a chair from the repository representatives who have volunteered, my > choice would be Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots of > energy, she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI > collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an > alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > > John > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Mar 21 19:19:43 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:19:43 +0900 Subject: neh workgroup (time-sensitive, please reply) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321032107.02bfde68@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I don't know her, but this sounds like a great choice. Christian John Unsworth writes: > For possibly transient but currently pressing personal reasons, Chris > Powell feels she cannot take on the chairing of the NEH workgroup. I have > told those who volunteered that we would be back in touch with them > soon--and that was some time ago--so there is some pressure now to appoint > a chair, and to choose one who will accept the appointment. If we were to > select a chair from the repository representatives who have volunteered, my > choice would be Natasha Smith, from the libraries at UNC: she has lots of > energy, she's well organized, and she has experience working with TEI > collections. Does anyone object to that choice, or wish to offer an > alternative? Responses by Monday, please. > > John -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Mar 29 23:02:46 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:02:46 -0500 Subject: NEH workgroup update Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329230031.01d53940@pop3.norton.antivirus> Just for the record: I have written to Natasha Smith today, to ask if she would chair the XML migration workgroup. I'm sorry it has taken this long--other business and travel was to blame. I will let you know when I have an answer, one way or the other, and I will encourage Natasha (should she accept) to contact volunteers (yea or nay) and get the workgroup moving as soon as possible. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 2 15:29:45 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:29:45 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020402152857.02706580@pop3.norton.antivirus> Ah me. Suggestions? J. >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:22:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) >From: Natalia Smith >To: John Unsworth >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation >X-X-Sender: nsmith at imap.unc.edu > >John: > >First, sorry for not replying right away - I was out of town for a couple >of days, just long enough to be impolite for not answering promptly... > >John, I want to assure you and the Council that I consider your offer as >an honor for which I am extremely grateful. Please believe me that it >means a lot to me. > >Regretfully, I must decline the offer. Putting aside my first reaction and >willingness to say yes, I have to admit - on the second thought - that I >will be simply not capable to carry this big responsibility in upcoming >months. Our work situation here at UNC has been recently complicated by >two projects dropped (physically, not metaphorically) unexpectedly on my >desk. I cannot and should not complain for *having* work, but the fact is >that it will greatly overlap with my workplan here and the NEH timeline. I >am sorry, really sorry for not being able to accept such a great offer, >but I thought it would be better for everybody (and for the project) if I >act more realistically instead of following my first impulsive reaction. > >And, finally, I truly hope that I still will be given an opportunity to >serve on the workgroup with other "representatives from projects with >significant TEI SGML holdings." I hope that I will have a chance to >contribute my interest, knowledge and expertise. > >All the best, >Natasha > >Natalia (Natasha) Smith >Digitization Librarian >Wilson Library, CB#3918 >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill >Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 >email: natalia_smith at unc.edu >tel. (919) 962-9590 >fax (919) 962-4452 >http://docsouth.unc.edu/ > > >On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > > Natasha, > > > > Would you be willing to chair the NEH funded TEI workgroup on SGML-XML > > migration? There have been a good number of qualified and interesting > > volunteers, and we would hand that list over to you with some > > recommendations, but you'd be free to invite others to participate, or to > > choose not to accept the offer of service from any of those who have > > volunteered. There's a budget of about $65,000 for travel and meetings, > > etc.; I include the relevant part of the NEH workplan, below. At least > > one of the meetings should probably coincide with the October TEI members > > meeting in Chicago. Timeline for the whole thing is about a year, starting > > now. The Council is all in favor of your appointment, so if you are > > willing, let me know. I would be very happy to hear you say yes. > > > > John > > ---------------------- > > > > Year 2: > > 4. Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which > > selected TEI experts and editors (8 people, total) work closely with > > representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > (another 10 > > people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary > > to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. One start-up > > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project > > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts. Participation > > from TEI technical writer for four months, participation of TEI editors and > > executive director for two months. Travel to two one-day meetings for 8 > > people, travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. $67533.33 > > > > 5. Specifications for software tools in response to results of > task force. > > Specifications generated by TEI editors, travel to one meeting. $6548.46 > > > > From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Apr 2 17:11:59 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:11:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020402152857.02706580@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: John, et al., I can highly recommend Chris Ruotulo at UVa. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Tue, 2 Apr 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Ah me. Suggestions? > > J. > > >Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:22:12 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) > >From: Natalia Smith > >To: John Unsworth > >Subject: Re: TEI call for participation > >X-X-Sender: nsmith at imap.unc.edu > > > >John: > > > >First, sorry for not replying right away - I was out of town for a couple > >of days, just long enough to be impolite for not answering promptly... > > > >John, I want to assure you and the Council that I consider your offer as > >an honor for which I am extremely grateful. Please believe me that it > >means a lot to me. > > > >Regretfully, I must decline the offer. Putting aside my first reaction and > >willingness to say yes, I have to admit - on the second thought - that I > >will be simply not capable to carry this big responsibility in upcoming > >months. Our work situation here at UNC has been recently complicated by > >two projects dropped (physically, not metaphorically) unexpectedly on my > >desk. I cannot and should not complain for *having* work, but the fact is > >that it will greatly overlap with my workplan here and the NEH timeline. I > >am sorry, really sorry for not being able to accept such a great offer, > >but I thought it would be better for everybody (and for the project) if I > >act more realistically instead of following my first impulsive reaction. > > > >And, finally, I truly hope that I still will be given an opportunity to > >serve on the workgroup with other "representatives from projects with > >significant TEI SGML holdings." I hope that I will have a chance to > >contribute my interest, knowledge and expertise. > > > >All the best, > >Natasha > > > >Natalia (Natasha) Smith > >Digitization Librarian > >Wilson Library, CB#3918 > >University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > >Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890 > >email: natalia_smith at unc.edu > >tel. (919) 962-9590 > >fax (919) 962-4452 > >http://docsouth.unc.edu/ > > > > > >On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > > Natasha, > > > > > > Would you be willing to chair the NEH funded TEI workgroup on SGML-XML > > > migration? There have been a good number of qualified and interesting > > > volunteers, and we would hand that list over to you with some > > > recommendations, but you'd be free to invite others to participate, or to > > > choose not to accept the offer of service from any of those who have > > > volunteered. There's a budget of about $65,000 for travel and meetings, > > > etc.; I include the relevant part of the NEH workplan, below. At least > > > one of the meetings should probably coincide with the October TEI members > > > meeting in Chicago. Timeline for the whole thing is about a year, starting > > > now. The Council is all in favor of your appointment, so if you are > > > willing, let me know. I would be very happy to hear you say yes. > > > > > > John > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > Year 2: > > > 4. Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which > > > selected TEI experts and editors (8 people, total) work closely with > > > representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings > > (another 10 > > > people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary > > > to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. One start-up > > > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project > > > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts. Participation > > > from TEI technical writer for four months, participation of TEI editors and > > > executive director for two months. Travel to two one-day meetings for 8 > > > people, travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people. $67533.33 > > > > > > 5. Specifications for software tools in response to results of > > task force. > > > Specifications generated by TEI editors, travel to one meeting. $6548.46 > > > > > > > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 2 17:47:54 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:47:54 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020402174721.01d737d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 05:11 PM 4/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >John, et al., > >I can highly recommend Chris Ruotulo at UVa.

I'd be happy to ask her--she's just started a new job, within the library, but I think she would be interested. Objections, anyone? J From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 4 23:50:06 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:50:06 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020404234905.0270c458@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 05:11 PM 4/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >John, et al., > >I can highly recommend Chris Ruotulo at UVa. Chris has expressed interest. I hope to confirm her willingness to chair the group by early next week--and I agree with Perry that she would be a good choice. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Apr 10 17:53:54 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:53:54 -0400 Subject: P4, NEH workgroup Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410175124.02a5b600@pop3.norton.antivirus> Two news items: I've sent the official order for print-on-demand P4 in to Xlibris, and we will be seeing various proofs, etc. from them over the next month or so. They estimate the whole setup process, including those proof stages, will take two months. After that, it should take 5-7 business days to fill individual orders. Also, Chris Ruotolo has accepted the appointment as chair of the NEH workgroup on SGML->XML migration. I've turned over to her our list of volunteers, etc., and I'll be talking to her regularly as she gets started. If she needs anything from other Board or Council members, I hope you'll oblige her. John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Wed Apr 10 18:47:58 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:47:58 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410175124.02a5b600@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: TWO MONTHS!!!!!! Surely they can do better than that?

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Two news items: > > I've sent the official order for print-on-demand P4 in to Xlibris, and we > will be seeing various proofs, etc. from them over the next month or > so. They estimate the whole setup process, including those proof stages, > will take two months. After that, it should take 5-7 business days to fill > individual orders. > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Apr 10 19:23:22 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 19:23:22 -0400 Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410191945.0217a7e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 11:47 PM 4/10/2002 +0100, you wrote: >TWO MONTHS!!!!!! > >Surely they can do better than that? A major part of that is the printer, who apparently has to have a month or so to rip, snort, and otherwise carry on with our poor little PDFs, to set them up for printing. The rest is pretty much back and forth with proofs, etc. BTW, I told him to use the text-art on the title page as cover art, and to go for something approximating the TEI dark green cover of P3 and before--I sent him the spec from OmniPress, but if someone wants to scan a bit of the green, that would probably help Xlibris to match it. "If it's part of your brand," said Ray, "we want to maintain that." Right. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Apr 10 20:54:45 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 20:54:45 -0400 Subject: reporting to the May meeting of the TEI-C Board Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410194235.02275fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Council members are reminded, one month in advance of the TEI Board meeting, May 9-10, of the following: Geoff Rockwell, Sebastian Rahtz, Julia Flanders, and Perry Willett are to submit a report, with recommendations, on training issues, for the board meeting. Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary are to submit a report, with recommendations, on the issues surrounding TEI certification of training or other products and services. Between now and the board meeting, I will also be working, by email, with David Durand and Christian Wittern to draft charters for their workgroups, for board approval. Finally, I would be grateful if the council could take up, on this list, the following, noted in my draft minutes from our meeting in London: >P5 should have a well understood and clearly articulated strategy for >adopting, supplementing, and referencing other relevant standards. >Character encoding and linking, schemas, and metadata were some areas where >the Council needs to decide a strategy in this regard. > >The Council decided that it should, in effect, consider itself a workgroup >for the purpose of addressing some key strategic and infrastructural issues >in planning for P5, for example schemas, DTDs, namespaces. The Council >also decided not to turn to those issues until P4 was put to bed, some time >this spring. [From discussions subsequent to the meeting, and the Chair's >own autocratic scheduling impulse: When the Council does begin discussion >of these issues, probably some time in April, we will ask Perry Willett to >host regular conference calls, and we will endeavor to provide a >preliminary overview of the issues to the Board's May meeting.] It would be very good if I could, in fact, provide a preliminary overview, for the Board, of the Council's strategy with respect to schemas, DTDs, namespaces, and "a clearly articulated strategy for adopting/supplementing/referencing other relevant standards." Thank you, John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Apr 11 04:50:33 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:50:33 +0100 Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410191945.0217a7e8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020411085032.GC15130@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:23:22PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > A major part of that is the printer, who apparently has to have a month or > so to rip, snort, and otherwise carry on with our poor little PDFs, to set > them up for printing. The rest is pretty much back and forth with proofs, > etc. proofs? whatever do they think they are doing to proof??? I am mildly shocked. if this is the new technology, give me the old any day. A decent printer would be offering bound books back in 2 weeks.... whatever. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Thu Apr 11 04:59:19 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:59:19 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <20020411085032.GC15130@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I agree with Sebastian. Also, since when has that icky green been part of our brand? I think we should go for a different colour and I am happy to trust John (or whoever he delegates the difficult choice to) to choose it.

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:23:22PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > A major part of that is the printer, who apparently has to have a month or > > so to rip, snort, and otherwise carry on with our poor little PDFs, to set > > them up for printing. The rest is pretty much back and forth with proofs, > > etc. > > proofs? whatever do they think they are doing to proof??? > > I am mildly shocked. if this is the new technology, give me the old > any day. A decent printer would be offering bound books back in 2 weeks.... > > whatever. > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 11 09:06:45 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:06:45 -0400 Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <20020411085032.GC15130@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411090549.02276520@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 09:50 AM 4/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: >On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:23:22PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > A major part of that is the printer, who apparently has to have a month or > > so to rip, snort, and otherwise carry on with our poor little PDFs, to set > > them up for printing. The rest is pretty much back and forth with proofs, > > etc. > >proofs? whatever do they think they are doing to proof??? They want us to have a look at the finished product, and approve it. >I am mildly shocked. if this is the new technology, give me the old >any day. A decent printer would be offering bound books back in 2 weeks.... I have pressed for bound copies to bring to the May board meeting, a month away. We'll see. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 11 09:10:13 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:10:13 -0400 Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411090700.021d7958@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 09:59 AM 4/11/2002 +0100, you wrote:

>I agree with Sebastian. > >Also, since when has that icky green been part of our brand? Well, there you go. I thought the fact the people referred to the guidelines as "the big green books" was a brand item. >I think we should go for a different colour and I am happy to trust John >(or whoever he delegates the difficult choice to) to choose it. If I'm free to suggest a color, I would go for something in the blue range, myself. Is it OK to use the title page typography as cover art? If we'd like full-bleed photo-art (swelling seas or dramatic landscapes, stars and rockets, bursting bodices, whatever) they're all set up for that, of course. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Apr 11 10:30:22 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:30:22 +0100 (BST) Subject: P4, NEH workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411090700.021d7958@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > At 09:59 AM 4/11/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > > >I agree with Sebastian. > > > >Also, since when has that icky green been part of our brand? > > Well, there you go. I thought the fact the people referred to the > guidelines as "the big green books" was a brand item. Well, yes. But if we make P4 the same colour we won't know what they're on about, will we.

> > >I think we should go for a different colour and I am happy to trust John > >(or whoever he delegates the difficult choice to) to choose it. > > If I'm free to suggest a color, I would go for something in the blue range, > myself. Blue is nice too. (even though "blue book" connotes something else) > > Is it OK to use the title page typography as cover art? If we'd like > full-bleed photo-art (swelling seas or dramatic landscapes, stars and > rockets, bursting bodices, whatever) they're all set up for that, of course. > I gave Sebastian 3 title pages, one of which does not contain the word "volume". Assuming that this is the one you mean by "title page typography", then yes, that's exactly what I'd anticipated. I believe that technically speaking bodices are ripped rather than burst. However, maybe we should save those for P5 (the pentium edition?). Good to see, btw, that you are hoping to have bound editions to wave at the May Board meeting. That would be excellent!

Lou From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 11 12:56:06 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:56:06 -0400 Subject: agenda item Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411123342.01d68c98@pop3.norton.antivirus> Tone Merete, Could you add one item to the board's agenda for the May meeting? --Future grant plans and possibilities for the Consortium At present, one third of our income is from the NEH grant; this is a two-year grant, and we are entering its second year. I hope board members will come with some ideas about future grant-funding for the Consortium, where it might come from, what sort of activities could be funded, etc.. On that subject, we have not yet missed the 2002 deadline for filing the (optional) letter of intent for this program: http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2002/nsf02085/nsf02085.html Estimated Number of Awards: Up to 10 per year Anticipated Funding Amount: Up to $10,000,000 in FY2002 pending the availability of funds. Full proposals due May 27th. The NSF introductory description follows; I think an application could be made by TEI, mustering the repositories involved in our NEH project as a testbed (and others, certainly, beyond those), applying research funds to the resolution of the question the Council posed for itself at its first meeting--namely, the extension and interoperability of TEI with respect to other standards, particularly metadata standards, but also others (linking, or example), and perhaps tossing in the Granby research that Brown and Virginia area already involved in, as an architecture for searching and delivering distributed TEI resources (see more on Granby at http://busa.village.virginia.edu/granbydocs/granby.html; this project includes developing an open-source XML search engine). Perhaps we drag the Open Archives Initiative in here (http://www.openarchives.org/) maybe by partnering with Michigan? Maybe some conflict there with Xpat and an open source XML search engine...but I'm just thinking out loud. I think the PI would have to be US-based, but I think the TEI Consortium itself could qualify; if so, then a European Board member interested in pushing this forward would be welcome to do so; if not, then it would have to fall to someone other than me, though IATH could help with actually preparing and filing the proposal--I have my hands more than full between now and the end of May. Other suggestions welcome at the board meeting; meanwhile, here's the NSF Introduction to this program: International digital libraries research is intended to contribute to the fundamental knowledge required to create information systems that can operate in multiple languages, formats, media, and social and organizational contexts. International collaborative research can bring complementary approaches, resources and perspectives to bear on common needs and information technology research challenges. International digital libraries applications testbeds are intended to build operational prototypes for globally distributed, internet-based resources, and to implement these in a variety of applications contexts. The testbeds are expected to advance technologies across the digital libraries lifecycle, focus collective work on organizing domain-specific content, and engage researchers, scholars, students and teachers in enhancing research and knowledge resources in a variety of subject domains. The program's goal is to advance the creation and access to internet-based digital content, regardless of location, information content or form, and thus enable broad use for research, education, commerce and other societal purposes. Developing global information environments requires international collaborative efforts in many areas: * identifying collections of information which is not accessible or usable because of technical barriers, distance, size, system fragmentation or other limits; * creating interoperable technologies for federation and retrieval of many kinds of information; * understanding and developing new technologies to make it possible for such information to be organized and delivered to and/or exploited by a distributed sets of users in collaborative settings; * building testbeds to evaluate new technology in international contexts and to measure the benefits gained along various dimensions; * resolving intellectual property issues in complex global marketplaces; * developing linked, compatible databases with inherently regional information, such as databases of geographic, botanic, agricultural, demographic or economic data; * reaching agreement on methods and standards for ensuring long-term sustainability and interoperability among distributed and separately administered databases; and, * implementing preservation and archiving practices for domain-specific and other content. While there are now uncoordinated efforts in many countries to build digital libraries, cooperative research and testbed activities can help avoid duplication of effort, prevent the development of non-interoperable digital systems, and encourage productive interchange of scientific knowledge and scholarly data around the world. This NSF effort will fund the U. S. portion of collaborative digital library projects among investigators from different countries to foster long-term, sustainable relationships between U.S. and non-U.S. researchers and research organizations. Cooperating groups in supported projects are expected to be balanced in terms of level of effort and expertise, and demonstrate the benefits obtainable from complementary international research. The research strengths and unique resources of organizations in different countries should be combined to facilitate work on complex multi-faceted problems relating to the access and use of internationally distributed, multilingual and multimedia content. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 11 13:56:54 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:56:54 -0400 Subject: NSF addendum Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020411135459.028c1830@pop3.norton.antivirus> Further to my earlier email about the NSF grant program: >Multi-country, multi-team projects are required, and proposals to this >program must involve at >least one team in the United States and one in another country. A project >should submit a single, >jointly developed proposal indicating workplans of each major partner. >Each team is responsible >for obtaining support for its part of the project. NSF will not support >the non-U.S. portion of a >project. NSF will not support U.S. portions of a project in which the >non-U.S. partners fail to >receive support from the foreign funding agencies involved. The NSF >proposal must contain, in >addition to budget(s) for the U.S. team(s), information indicating the >level of investments and efforts >for each foreign team. Where desirable, NSF may choose to coordinate >review with a foreign >funding agency and make joint decisions. > >Institutions eligible to apply to the NSF supported portion of this >program are U.S. universities and >U.S. non-profit research institutions. NSF support for a project will not >exceed five years duration >with a maximum yearly cost of $1,000,000. NSF funding for this program >will vary according to >funding availability and opportunities for co-sponsorship. So, we need a US PI, but we also need a non-US partner with its own source of funding. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Apr 14 12:52:17 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 17:52:17 +0100 Subject: reporting to the May meeting of the TEI-C Board In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020410194235.02275fd8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020414165217.GI8289@spqr-dell> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 08:54:45PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > It would be very good if I could, in fact, provide a preliminary overview, > for the Board, of the Council's strategy with respect to schemas, DTDs, > namespaces, and "a clearly articulated strategy for > adopting/supplementing/referencing other relevant standards." as one part of this, I hope to circulate a document in a week or so with some concrete proposals for the detailed markup of P5. this will say something about dtds, schemas and namespaces. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 17:52:56 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:52:56 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: error in edw54 Message-ID: A council member has drawn my attention to a correction which should have been made in the revision of the document EDW54 on Workgroup practice. The revised draft, approved at the Council's meeting in London in January, states under "Membership": "In general, members must be drawn in roughly equal numbers from North America and Europe; this requirement may be waived in individual cases for externally funded work groups, but will not normally be waived for TEI-funded groups. " This should be amended to read: "Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or other cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members from at least two, and preferably from three, continents. This requirement may be waived in exceptional circumstances at the discretion of the Council."

Council members please indicate asap whether you (a) approve the wording (b) approve the sentiment but wish to propose an alternative wording (c) disapprove of the proposed change Lou From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Apr 16 17:57:48 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:57:48 +0100 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020416215747.GS5227@spqr-dell> On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 10:52:56PM +0100, Lou Burnard wrote: > "Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or other > cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members from at > least two, and preferably from three, continents. This requirement may be > waived in exceptional circumstances at the discretion of the Council." > > > Council members please indicate asap whether you > > (a) approve the wording > (b) approve the sentiment but wish to propose an alternative wording > (c) disapprove of the proposed change to be honest, I think that pure geographical imbalance is hardly with bothering with. what you really mean is: Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid upsetting any grant-giving or similar political bodies. TEI Workgroups should always have members from the different grant-giving regions of the world. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 16 23:52:55 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:52:55 -0400 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <20020416215747.GS5227@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020416235028.0288d4d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> A >to be honest, I think that pure geographical imbalance is hardly >with bothering with. what you really mean is: > > Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid > upsetting any grant-giving or similar political bodies. > TEI Workgroups should always have members from the different > grant-giving regions of the world. I think that's excessively cynical. International and interdisciplinary representation has always been a fundamental goal of the TEI, to insure that the guidelines meet the needs of different disciplines, language groups, etc.. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Apr 16 23:53:45 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:53:45 -0400 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020416235320.02897818@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 10:52 PM 4/16/2002 +0100, you wrote:

>Council members please indicate asap whether you > >(a) approve the wording The proposed wording is fine with me. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Apr 17 05:15:21 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:15:21 +0100 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020416235028.0288d4d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020417091521.GA4268@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 11:52:55PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > I think that's excessively cynical. orry, you'd have seen my tongue in my cheek had you been sitting next to me on the futon. > International and interdisciplinary > representation has always been a fundamental goal of the TEI, to insure > that the guidelines meet the needs of different disciplines, language > groups, etc.. absolutely. but what does that to do with continents? thats a very crude way of achieving the result. Lou's wording is fine by me..... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Apr 17 06:30:36 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:30:36 +0100 (BST) Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <20020417091521.GA4268@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: My wording was chosen to try to avoid saying either (a) we populate workgroups according to where we get grants or (b) we populate workgroups according to where we have members while at the same time permitting either interpretation to be a valid one! I await comment from other council members. Preferably on whether or not they approve my rewording, and preferably with un-encumbered cheeks.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 11:52:55PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > I think that's excessively cynical. > > sorry, you'd have seen my tongue in my cheek had you been sitting > next to me on the futon. > > > International and interdisciplinary > > representation has always been a fundamental goal of the TEI, to insure > > that the guidelines meet the needs of different disciplines, language > > groups, etc.. > > absolutely. but what does that to do with continents? thats a very crude > way of achieving the result. > > Lou's wording is fine by me..... > From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Apr 17 06:21:14 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:21:14 +0200 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CBD68BA.22193.67CF0C@localhost> Sentiment and wording are fine with me, Fotis Jannidis Date sent: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:52:56 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: Lou Burnard To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: error in edw54 Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > > A council member has drawn my attention to a correction which should > have been made in the revision of the document EDW54 on Workgroup > practice. > > The revised draft, approved at the Council's meeting in London in > January, states under "Membership": > > "In general, members must be drawn in roughly equal numbers from North > America and Europe; this requirement may be waived in individual cases > for externally funded work groups, but will not normally be waived for > TEI-funded groups. " > > This should be amended to read: > > "Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or > other cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members > from at least two, and preferably from three, continents. This > requirement may be waived in exceptional circumstances at the > discretion of the Council." > > > Council members please indicate asap whether you > > (a) approve the wording > (b) approve the sentiment but wish to propose an alternative wording > (c) disapprove of the proposed change > > Lou > From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Wed Apr 17 06:45:12 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:45:12 +0200 (METDST) Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200204171045.MAA16032@obelix.ijs.si> Lou Burnard writes: > I await comment from other council members. Preferably on whether or not > they approve my rewording, and preferably with un-encumbered cheeks. Fine by me. Tomaz -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From mjd at hum.ku.dk Wed Apr 17 06:44:08 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:44:08 +0200 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <3CBD68BA.22193.67CF0C@localhost> Message-ID: <3CBD6E18.29431.E89344@localhost> The wording of the proposed emendation is also fine with me, and I certainly agree with the sentiment. One must, however, be careful not to slide too far down the slippery slope of political correctness. Matthew From pwillett at indiana.edu Wed Apr 17 08:57:47 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 07:57:47 -0500 (EST) Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <20020417091521.GA4268@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I like John's sentence very much, and wonder if it could be added? Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University

> On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 11:52:55PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > International and interdisciplinary > > representation has always been a fundamental goal of the TEI, to insure > > that the guidelines meet the needs of different disciplines, language > > groups, etc.. >

>"Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or other >cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members from at >least two, and preferably from three, continents. This requirement may be >waived in exceptional circumstances at the discretion of the Council." From mjd at hum.ku.dk Wed Apr 17 09:05:21 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CBD8F31.5902.169DEF4@localhost> I agree with Perry. A fine sentence. Let's just make sure we keep gender, colour, religion, age, sexual orientation, body mass index etc. out of the equation. -MJD > I like John's sentence very much, and wonder if it could be > added? > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2002 at 11:52:55PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > > > International and interdisciplinary > > > representation has always been a fundamental goal of the TEI, to insure > > > that the guidelines meet the needs of different disciplines, language > > > groups, etc.. > > > > > >"Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or other > >cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members from at > >least two, and preferably from three, continents. This requirement may be > >waived in exceptional circumstances at the discretion of the Council." From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Apr 17 13:20:50 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 10:20:50 -0700 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: <3CBD6E18.29431.E89344@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020417101804.01cd7228@notes.rlg.org> The wording is just fine with me. I do wonder about the efficacy of dividing the world into continents, but recognize that it's the spirit of global inclusion that we are going for. It's a big improvement on a world view that consists of North America and Europe! Merrilee From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Apr 17 19:51:53 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 08:51:53 +0900 Subject: error in edw54 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lou Burnard writes: > "Care should be taken in selecting members to avoid geographic or other > cultural imbalance. TEI Workgroups should always have members from at > least two, and preferably from three, continents. This requirement may be > waived in exceptional circumstances at the discretion of the Council." This wording is fine with me. Christian Wittern -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 18 13:30:10 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 13:30:10 -0400 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418132432.01d7bc10@pop3.norton.antivirus> I think this is mostly for Sebastian, but for the record, here's the latest from Xlibris. Sebastian, I'll propose to Ray that the code they use should be 15164-TEI and 15165-TEI, and not 15164-UNSW and 15165-UNSW. Can you respond (to Ray, cc me) to items 1 and 2, below? I have put up the PDF atttachment he refers to at: http://www.tei-c.org/tei-book1.pdf John

>From: Ray Beauchamp >To: "'John Unsworth'" >Subject: FW: Your Xlibris Submission >Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:00:03 -0400 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > > > Dear Mr. Unsworth, > > > > As you know, your project is one that is not normal in our system. As I > > thought might be the case, a couple of complications have come up that I > > would like to discuss. > > > > 1. Your PDF documents were not saved exactly to the specifications that I > > sent to David Seaman. We were able to work with it, but we had to reduce > > the size. Whereas the PDF that you sent was saved at 8 1/2 by 11 inches, > > our pages are 8 1/2 by 5 1/2 inches. See the attached file to see how > > this will affect the layout. The text will appear a bit small, but when > > we printed it, it was readable. > > > > 2. I would also consider reviewing the gutters and margins. They were > > not within the exact guidelines of my previous email (also attached to > > this email). In particular the gutter may not have enough space. While > > it is workable, it might not be the most readable as is. > > > > 3. There is also one other thing that we did not consider. Our books > > have to have a marker on each right hand page, lower left-hand corner > > indicating the code of the book. This is to help our printers when they > > bind the books, a factor that comes up with On-demand printing. The codes > > we need placed are 15164-UNSW and 15165-UNSW. The former for part one, > > the latter for Part two. > > > > I imagine this might bring up some questions for you. We can continue to > > communicate via email; I can also have one of my technical people speak > > with one of yours which perhaps might speed this whole process up. > > > > In the meantime, until we clear this stage up, I have not cashed the > > check, just to be sure we can make this book before going down that road. > > > > Best Wishes, > > > > > > <> <> > > > > > > > > Ray Beauchamp > > Manager, Publishing Services > > tel 215.923.4686 ext.120 > > fax 215.923.4685 > > www.xlibris.com > > Xlibris > > WHERE WRITERS BECOME AUTHORS > > > >Message-ID: <45D5AE18069A194D8AF8C2F2CC3F1D273BBEDF at xlibris-mail.xlibris.com> >From: Ray Beauchamp >To: "'dms8f at etext.lib.virginia.edu'" >Subject: RE: PDFs >Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:36:00 -0400 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dear Mr. Seaman, > >We are all very excited to work with your two volume book. Here is how we >can accommodate your project. > >Both books would be submitted in the professional service at a cost of $900 >each for the setup. This will allow us to use your PDFs. We will also >create a cover for each as described in our brochure under the professional >service. We can discuss the details of this as the time approaches. We are >flexible in this regard. > >As part of this service, you will also be eligible for our special offer, >which would give you 20 free copies of each book upon publication. > >Now, here are the details of what we need from your PDF: > >Page size: 5 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches >Page Length: We cannot print books at more than 600 pages in length >Margins: > - inside/gutter: .75 inches > - outside: .5 inches > - top: .5 inches (to top of text, not headers. if there are headers, >it should be .7 inches to the text, .5 to headers) > - bottom: as low as .5 inches, but if you have page numbers, make it >.65 or .7 inches to the text, .5 to the page numbers. >Distillation: > - the PDF should be 600dpi > - any images should be 300dpi > - all the fonts should be embedded > - we use the HP LaserJet 8100 series PS PPD and the HP LaserJet 8100 >DN PS printer driver > >If you are using adobe distiller, I have specific settings. > >If you are doing it some other way (exporting to PDF via MS WORD), what do >you need to know besides the above? > >We will be altering the PDF in one small way. We will add a copyright page >for you that indicates the ISBN number we assign for tracking purposes. >This page will be inserted where you have a blank page on the opposite side >of the Title page. > >Please let me know if you have any questions. I am happy to work with you >to get any unresolved issues resolved. > >All the best, > > > Ray Beauchamp > tel 215.923.4686 ext.120 > fax 215.923.4685 > www.xlibris.com > Xlibris > WHERE WRITERS BECOME AUTHORS > > >-----Original Message----- >From: David M. Seaman [mailto:dms8f at etext.lib.virginia.edu] >Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 3:42 PM >To: Ray Beauchamp >Subject: Re: PDFs > > >Terrific -- I'm sure we can accomodate your needs. > >Best wishes, > >David Seaman > > > >> > >> Mr. Seaman, > >> > >> Things are looking good on our end with doing these two volumes. >However, > >> we are a bit concerned with several items in your book. > >> > >> I have on of our designers putting together a comprehensive idea of what >we > >> need to do to get this book in our service. This will come if not by the > >> end of today, then by Monday. At that time, we will be able to put a >price > >> on the service. > >> > >> I will be in touch, and if you have any questions don't hesitate to >contact > >> me. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Ray Beauchamp > >> tel 215.923.4686 ext.120 > >> fax 215.923.4685 > >> www.xlibris.com > >> Xlibris > >> WHERE WRITERS BECOME AUTHORS > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: David M. Seaman [mailto:dms8f at etext.lib.virginia.edu] > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:08 PM > >> To: Ray Beauchamp > >> Cc: 'etext at virginia.edu' > >> Subject: Re: PDFs > >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> Dear Mr. Seaman, > >> >> > >> >> Thank you for your voicemail. I am happy to take a look at those >files - > >> >> should be interesting. You can send them via email to this address >(we > >> do > >> >> not have a file size restriction on this end), or you can send me a >link > >> >> where I can download them. > >> >> > >> >> All the best, > >> >> > >> >> Ray Beauchamp > >> >> tel 215.923.4686 ext.120 > >> >> fax 215.923.4685 > >> >> www.xlibris.com > >> >> Xlibris > >> >> WHERE WRITERS BECOME AUTHORS > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> Thanks -- these are minus cover art and not quite finalized in their > >> content -- our deadline is the end of the month: > >> > >> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/volume1.pdf > >> http://users.ox.ac.uk/~rahtz/volume2.pdf > >> > >> > >> Best, > >> > >> David Seaman > >> From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 18 14:33:09 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 14:33:09 -0400 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418142826.02784ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 07:07 PM 4/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: >I think this confusion has arisen because of the ambiguity of the word >"page". Rightly or wrongly, Sebastian and I both thought they were talking >about a printed page area of 5.5 * 8, not physical paper size. I don't >think either of us even entertained the possibility -- we're so >accustomed to hefting P4 around in A4 size paper. > >Do we still have Mr Omniprint's phone number? Sure--if this is a show-stopper. Is that the consensus? Xlibris has not cashed the check, as Ray points out, so we could shift back to Omnipress. The down side there, though, is --higher upfront investment for TEI ($16,190 if we print 500 sets, which seems like the smallest run we should contemplate) --we are responsible for shipping and handling. Upsides: --they look like the old ones, and we know what that is --cost to the end user might be lower (Omnipress charges us $33/set, if we print 500). We need to make this decision quickly, and I would like to hear from the Board and the Council. Please email me directly (jmu2m at virginia.edu) and I will report--if you reply to this mail, your reply may bounce, as the mail is going to two lists, and only a few of us are on (and therefore permitted to post to) both. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Apr 18 14:59:02 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 19:59:02 +0100 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418132432.01d7bc10@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020418185902.GB2075@spqr-dell> On Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 01:30:10PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > >> 1. Your PDF documents were not saved exactly to the specifications that > >I > >> sent to David Seaman. We were able to work with it, but we had to reduce > >> the size. Whereas the PDF that you sent was saved at 8 1/2 by 11 inches, > >> our pages are 8 1/2 by 5 1/2 inches. See the attached file to see how > >> this will affect the layout. The text will appear a bit small, but when > >> we printed it, it was readable. um, this is simply laughable. a book of 600 pages @ 8 1/2 x 5 1/2 would be unuseable. hrinking the page to fit seems a bad idea. I find the size OK as is, any smaller would be no fun at. > >> have to have a marker on each right hand page, lower left-hand corner > >> indicating the code of the book. This is to help our printers when they > >> bind the books, a factor that comes up with On-demand printing. The ah jeez, what is this bunch of amateurs? > >codes > >> we need placed are 15164-UNSW and 15165-UNSW. The former for part one, > >> the latter for Part two. However, I can do that if I have to, quite easily Conclusion: I don't like the way this is smelling. If we are working to a paper size of 8 1/2 x 5 1/2, I would want to consider a fairly serious redesign, and that means: - a fair amount of effort - checking all the page breaks etc again - (worst) checking all the example texts, which are carefully line-broken by hand equally, I don't like the Omnipress solution very much, as it puts a hideous burden on our finances and on someone to store and post books, and collect money. I really don't know what to do. I am half-inclined to print 200 copies for our members and start negotiations with a real publisher. John, can you put their shrunken PDF on a web server somewhere? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Apr 18 19:54:17 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 08:54:17 +0900 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418142826.02784ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Just watching from the sidelines, I think Omniprint has a better score. John Unsworth writes: >>Do we still have Mr Omniprint's phone number? > > Sure--if this is a show-stopper. Is that the consensus? Xlibris has not > cashed the check, as Ray points out, so we could shift back to > Omnipress. The down side there, though, is > > --higher upfront investment for TEI ($16,190 if we print 500 sets, which > seems like the smallest run we should contemplate) > > --we are responsible for shipping and handling. We did this before. It kinda worked, didnt it? > > Upsides: > > --they look like the old ones, and we know what that is > --cost to the end user might be lower (Omnipress charges us $33/set, if we > print 500). This seems an important consideration to me.

All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Apr 18 22:08:32 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 22:08:32 -0400 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <20020418185902.GB2075@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418220801.01d84820@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 07:59 PM 4/18/2002 +0100, you wrote: >John, can you put their shrunken PDF on a web server somewhere?

I did--it's at http://www.tei-c.org/tei-book1.pdf John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Apr 19 12:21:54 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:21:54 +0100 Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020418132432.01d7bc10@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020419162153.GR4837@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Any more views on this? I recommend that John back out of the XLibris deal as cleanly as he can. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Apr 19 12:31:37 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:31:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <20020419162153.GR4837@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Seconded. And as rapidly! I had brief discussions with Tone Merete and with Claus this afternoon, who seem also to share my opinion that we should go back to Omnipress. The budget allows us to spend 17k on publication this year and there can hardly be a better way of spending it than delivering on our long overdue promise to get P4 into print. Lou

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Any more views on this? I recommend that John back out of the XLibris > deal as cleanly as he can. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From pwillett at indiana.edu Fri Apr 19 15:18:24 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:18:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fwd: FW: Your Xlibris Submission In-Reply-To: <20020419162153.GR4837@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: I would agree, if they're requiring a complete repagination. It doesn't seem out of line to charge $75 as we did for P3. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Any more views on this? I recommend that John back out of the XLibris > deal as cleanly as he can. > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Apr 20 22:00:50 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:00:50 -0400 Subject: omnipress, xlibris, P4 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020420213723.022433b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> OK, consensus is that we should back out of the deal with Xlibris, and I agree. I'll write Ray and explain: the limitation on paper size is enough. If Tone Merete and Claus think we can afford the up-front cost of the offset printing, the quality of that output will clearly be better. I have also struck up a conversation with the director of the University of Virginia Press, and she says that the Press can probably provide fulfillment services, also marketing, if we want it, on commission. I would recommend this route, though I don't think we probably need the marketing--maybe a listing in their catalogue would be nice, but otherwise most of what we'd like to have is fulfillment services--receiving orders and shipping them. I will get a quote from her on what that would add to the cost of the volume--it would not interfere with our having the volume printed with Omnipress, so we can approach this as a second question, after the printing is settled. I'll call Tom Wagner at OmniPress as soon as I hear directly from Claus or Tone Merete that we can, in fact, afford to front the cost of printing with them. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Apr 21 06:41:20 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 11:41:20 +0100 Subject: omnipress, xlibris, P4 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020420213723.022433b0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020421104120.GB13021@spqr-dell> On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 10:00:50PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > have also struck up a conversation with the director of the University of > Virginia Press, and she says that the Press can probably provide > fulfillment services, also marketing, if we want it, on commission. I I like the sound of someone else putting books in jiffy bags and managing the money......... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sun Apr 21 07:11:33 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:11:33 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: omnipress, xlibris, P4 In-Reply-To: <20020421104120.GB13021@spqr-dell> Message-ID: While I agree that this has some attractions, my understanding from Tone Merete is that European fulfillment at least would be handled from Bergen, as part of the work of the secretariat. I have two related questions: a) Wouldnt US purchasers have to pay a higher cover price to cover the commission? b) does UVP have a European distribution agency? On Sun, 21 Apr 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > On Sat, Apr 20, 2002 at 10:00:50PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > > have also struck up a conversation with the director of the University of > > Virginia Press, and she says that the Press can probably provide > > fulfillment services, also marketing, if we want it, on commission. I > > I like the sound of someone else putting books in jiffy > bags and managing the money......... > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Apr 21 18:47:24 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:47:24 -0400 Subject: omnipress, xlibris, P4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020421184525.01d92198@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:11 PM 4/21/2002 +0100, you wrote: >While I agree that this has some attractions, my understanding from Tone >Merete is that European fulfillment at least would be handled from Bergen, >as part of the work of the secretariat. > >I have two related questions: >a) Wouldnt US purchasers have to pay a higher cover price to cover the >commission? I wouldn't bother doing it if we weren't going to make this the uniform distribution channel. I'm sure Tone Merete would be happy to be relieved of mailing etc., except perhaps to members. >b) does UVP have a European distribution agency? I'm sure they could distribute to European purchasers. Let me see what they can offer, and I'll report. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Apr 22 16:18:18 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:18:18 -0400 Subject: P4 and Omnipress Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020422161701.027b5008@pop3.norton.antivirus> We are on track to have a pre-press proof copy (with a new, blue, cover) from OmniPress, in time for the May board meeting. I will bring it with me to Prague, for the board's approval. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Apr 22 18:13:10 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:13:10 +0100 Subject: P4 and Omnipress In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020422161701.027b5008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <20020422221310.GD927@spqr-dell> On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 04:18:18PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > We are on track to have a pre-press proof copy (with a new, blue, cover) > from OmniPress, in time for the May board meeting. I will bring it with me > to Prague, for the board's approval. now thats more like it.... this is using the PDF files I made xlibris? note the complete lack of a copyright page with ISBN etc etc -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed May 1 10:00:16 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:00:16 -0400 Subject: electronic textual editing Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501095818.01d9b2d0@pop3.norton.antivirus> Good news: The MLA has accepted for publication the volume we are co-sponsoring with the Commitee on Scholarly Editions. The final outline for that volume is at: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/ETE.outline.html Drafts are scheduled to come in during October, and the volume should appear in 2003, and should include the TEI Guidlines on CD (along with example texts, etc.). John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri May 3 00:22:16 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 00:22:16 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: Workshop on Transcription of Medieval MSS at Berkeley April 26 (fwd) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503001801.027caa20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Two questions that the Council should perhaps consider, next time it meets, in Chicago. If an answer exists and has been offered, that's fine--but even if so, the question suggests a need for tinkering with documentation in P5. John ========== From Charles Faulhaber: >In the teiheader, it seems to me that there needs to be a "repository >statement," a place where one can record explicitly the name and location >of the repository that owns the manuscript being transcribed. We've used > as a stopgap, but it really isn't a bibliographical entry. > >Any suggestions? > >I'm still struggling with the correct coding of words so that they can be >extracted correctly for the purposes of concordances, word lists, and the >like. Thus a word can be broken across two lines, but there needs to be >some way to bring the two parts back together. It can have all sorts of >abbreviations and addition-deletion combinations; but you still have to be >able to extract the word with the addition but minus the deletion. and later: >I've seen no solutions on either the repository or the word problems. >David Seaman suggested using as a workaround, and it does work, but >in fact that actually flips the relationship, since what one is making is >_not_ the original reading but the cleaned up editorial reading. In some >sense it's the same relationship as between and . > >I think that TEI needs a with a lot fewer constraints on what can go >inside. From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri May 3 03:33:50 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 09:33:50 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: Workshop on Transcription of Medieval MSS at Berkeley April 26 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503001801.027caa20@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <3CD2597E.10091.3E3B26@localhost> > From Charles Faulhaber: > > >In the teiheader, it seems to me that there needs to be a "repository > >statement," a place where one can record explicitly the name and location > >of the repository that owns the manuscript being transcribed. We've used > > as a stopgap, but it really isn't a bibliographical entry. > > > >Any suggestions? This is precisely what the element, which goes in the in the and can contain the subelements , , , , , and , is meant to do. Of course, it hasn't actually been adopted by the TEI yet, but hey, you can't have everything. There is, incidentally, no difference of opinion on this point, so far as I am aware, between the MASTERites and the Dutschke/Proffitt camp. > > > >I'm still struggling with the correct coding of words so that they can be > >extracted correctly for the purposes of concordances, word lists, and the > >like. Thus a word can be broken across two lines, but there needs to be > >some way to bring the two parts back together. It can have all sorts of > >abbreviations and addition-deletion combinations; but you still have to be > >able to extract the word with the addition but minus the deletion. > > and later: > > >I've seen no solutions on either the repository or the word problems. > >David Seaman suggested using as a workaround, and it does work, but > >in fact that actually flips the relationship, since what one is making is > >_not_ the original reading but the cleaned up editorial reading. In some > >sense it's the same relationship as between and . > > > >I think that TEI needs a with a lot fewer constraints on what can go > >inside. We've run into exactly the same problem here in the Old Norse speaking.world. In order to do the sorts of things manuscript people (at least) want to do, needs both more attributes, REG, for example, and something for the "cleaned up editorial reading"(if different from the regularised form - we've been using REND, but I'm not completely happy with it) and, as Charles says, fewer constraints on what can go inside. At the moment, one cannot have or , or , or and so on inside , which renders it fairly useless for transcription purposes. The alternative would be a new element, called, say, , but why bother? Matthew From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Fri May 3 14:12:19 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 11:12:19 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Re: Workshop on Transcription of Medieval MSS at Berkeley April 26 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3CD2597E.10091.3E3B26@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020503110946.01d91e90@notes.rlg.org> At 09:33 AM 5/3/2002 +0200, M. J. Driscoll wrote: > > From Charles Faulhaber: > > > > >In the teiheader, it seems to me that there needs to be a "repository > > >statement," a place where one can record explicitly the name and location > > >of the repository that owns the manuscript being transcribed. We've used > > > as a stopgap, but it really isn't a bibliographical entry. > > > > > >Any suggestions? > >This is precisely what the element, which goes in the > in the and can contain the subelements >, , , , , > and , is meant to do. Of course, it hasn't >actually been adopted by the TEI yet, but hey, you can't have >everything. There is, incidentally, no difference of opinion on this >point, so far as I am aware, between the MASTERites and the >Dutschke/Proffitt camp. Agreed. It does seem useful beyond manuscript items, however (ms items defined in the large sense). I think more provenance-y information should be available at the sourcedesc level.

> > > > > >I'm still struggling with the correct coding of words so that they can be > > >extracted correctly for the purposes of concordances, word lists, and the > > >like. Thus a word can be broken across two lines, but there needs to be > > >some way to bring the two parts back together. It can have all sorts of > > >abbreviations and addition-deletion combinations; but you still have to be > > >able to extract the word with the addition but minus the deletion. > > > > and later: > > > > >I've seen no solutions on either the repository or the word problems. > > >David Seaman suggested using as a workaround, and it does work, but > > >in fact that actually flips the relationship, since what one is making is > > >_not_ the original reading but the cleaned up editorial reading. In some > > >sense it's the same relationship as between and . > > > > > >I think that TEI needs a with a lot fewer constraints on what can go > > >inside. > >We've run into exactly the same problem here in the Old Norse >speaking.world. In order to do the sorts of things manuscript people >(at least) want to do, needs both more attributes, REG, for >example, and something for the "cleaned up editorial reading"(if >different from the regularised form - we've been using REND, but >I'm not completely happy with it) and, as Charles says, fewer >constraints on what can go inside. At the moment, one cannot have > or , or , or and so on >inside , which renders it fairly useless for transcription purposes. >The alternative would be a new element, called, say, , but >why bother? > >Matthew From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri May 3 18:34:48 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 03 May 2002 18:34:48 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Preliminary Report Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503183218.027b3438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Geoff Rockwell's preliminary report on the TEI Council's Training subcommittee. Thanks very much for your work so far, Geoff (and Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, Stuart Brown, and Sebastian Rahtz). John >X-Sender: gmr3f at g.mail.virginia.edu (Unverified) >Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 17:05:07 -0400 >To: TEI Training Group: ;, John Unsworth >From: Geoffrey Rockwell >Subject: Preliminary Report > >Dear John, > >Below is the preliminary report of the TEI Training subcommittee. > >Yours, > >Geoffrey Rockwell >____________________________ >TEI Training Subcommittee >Preliminary Report, May 3rd, 2002, v1.0 >Prepared by Geoffrey Rockwell > >A. Introduction > >At the January 2002 TEI Council meeting in London a subcommittee on >Training was formed. The mandate was described thus in the minutes of the >meeting, > > >6.1 Training > >We discussed training and whether TEI should certify training or develop >training. We decided to form a committee made up of Geoffrey Rockwell, >Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, and Sebastian Rahtz. The committee should >look at existing training and develop a training strategy for the >TEI. The committee should consider the question of what people are >willing to pay? Training Comm = GR, JF, PW, >SRReview TEI training and report back with >strategy. > > >Stuart Brown was subsequently added to the subcommittee. Our preliminary >sense of what we should do was: > > >i. We should come up with a list of training materials (online and in >print) that we want to look at. > >ii. We agree on criteria for evaluating the materials. (I would say we >want to know the author, title, extent, accuracy, and publication info for >each item. Notes about the extent - what it trains you in would be the >most useful.) > >iii. We divide them up, review them, and compile a list of materials with >evaluation information. > >iv. We come up with a list of people we know are regularly providing >training to others on the TEI (training outside of a project.) > >v. We contact these people and see if they are willing to answer some >questions about the training they provide and their experience. This gets >compiled. > >vi. We look at what we have and decide the strategy we want to recommend >to the Council. The strategy may be just to publish some form of our list >of materials and trainers along with a process for updating the >information. Or the strategy might be to design a certification process. > >vii. We write up our proposed strategy and submit it at the Oct meeting. >(And promptly dissolve the subcommittee.) > > >B. Status > >We have completed i and iv (see Appendix A.) We discussed ii, but it did >not make sense to develop recommendations on criteria unless the TEI >decided to go forward with a review process. We have started contacting >trainers, surveying materials, but the process is not complete. In order >to present a preliminary report for the May meeting we had a discussion >about options (vi) and present a preliminary list of options below. These >will be developed further in the final report. > >Due to time constraints, this preliminary report has not been reviewed by >all the members of the subcommittee in its present form. We expect to >return a final report in October. > >___________________________________________________________ > >C. Strategic Options > >Here are some of the considerations that guided out deliberations. > >i. The primary goal of a Training Strategy is to encourage access to >quality training in the appropriate use of the TEI guidelines for all. A >secondary goal is to develop activities for members or activities which >would reward membership. A third goal is to develop activities that would >help fund the other activities of the TEI. > >ii. We wanted to avoid presenting options that would make significant >demands on the TEI budget or need significant volunteer support. We assume >that the priority for the TEI budget is the development of the guidelines >and that training should, wherever possible, be self-funding or raise money. > >iii. We felt it would be useful to look at some of the materials out there >and talk with trainers, something we are still doing. Appendix A lists the >materials and trainers we identified for our survey. > >iv. We felt the most useful way to return a strategy to the TEI would be >to present the TEI with a number of possible activities - options that can >be developed into recommendations. > >Some of the options the TEI should consider are: > >1. Extend the Existing List of Tutorials > >The TEI currently has a good list of links to training materials on its >WWW site. The present site (http://www.tei-c.org/Tutorials/index.html) >includes an e-mail address for people to alert the site editors to new >materials. > >This useful starting point could be extended. For example, the list could >be supplemented with information about trainers (see 7. below) and a >bibliography of print resources. > >A bibliography of print resources could be implemented as a database that >members could add to. This online database could be usefully supplemented >with an Amazon.com-like review tool so that members could write >evaluations of the works listed. (The same facility could be added to the >list of tutorials for that matter.) > >2. Materials RFP > >The TEI prepare a request for proposals (RFP) to develop TEI training >materials. The RFP would encourage members or other organizations to >propose a process whereby TEI sponsored tutorial materials would be >prepared. The proposals would be reviewed by the TEI-Training subcommittee >and a recommendation presented to the Council. One or more proposals would >be accepted. The types of proposals we would solicit would be proposals >that aimed at published tutorials that could be distributed as the >Guidelines are (free on the WWW and for a fee through a distribution >agency.) We would accept proposals that included in the final cost a fee >to be returned to the author(s) to subsidize the cost of creating and >maintaining the tutorial. Some of the issues we would expect proposals to >cover would be: > >2.1 Audience for the materials. > >2.2 Scope of the materials (what would they cover?) [We would not expect >proposals to necessarily all of the TEI, rather we would encourage focused >proposals.] > >2.3 Preparation process (how would they be prepared?) > >2.4 Financial model (what would be charged for the printed copy and what >would the member discount be?) > >2.5 Maintenance model (how would they be maintained?) > >2.6 Copyright > >3. Training RFP > >The TEI prepare a request for proposals (RFP) to develop TEI training >courses. The RFP would encourage members or other organizations to propose >a process whereby TEI sponsored training courses would be prepared and >delivered. One or more proposals would be accepted as long as they did not >compete directly with each other (a decision to be based on scope and >geographic location.) The aim of this would be to encourage the regular >delivery of quality training courses in different geographic locations and >to different audiences. Some of the issues we would expect proposals to >cover would be: > >3.1 Audience and location for the training. > >3.2 Scope/level of the training (what would it cover and at what level?) >and coordination with other training (what related training would be >available?) > >3.3 Preparation process (how would the training course be prepared?) > >3.4 Financial model (what would be charged for the training and would >members get a discount?) > >3.5 Availability (how often would the training be available?) > >This may be too ambitious. > >4. TEI Training > >An alternative to 2. and 3. would be for the TEI to develop materials and >a course without issuing an RFP. The TEI-Training subcommittee would >prepare a proposal for the Council and supervise the development and >delivery. The course would be similar to that provided by the Society of >American Archivists and EAD. That course costs $7,000 US for two trainers >for two days. Our course would be priced so that trainers would be >adequately compensated and the TEI could recover the costs of development >over a reasonable number of iterations (at which point the profit would go >to updating the course and other TEI activities.) Members would, of >course, get a discount. Such a model means that the TEI would borrow >against anticipated future profits in order to pay for the development. > >In general we consider this option less attractive than 2. and 3. > >5. Training Grants > >The TEI would develop a protocol for entering into a Training Sponsorship >Agreement with organizations that wished to pursue grants/funding to >develop and deliver training. Where we are given sufficient time to review >grant/funding proposals the President would be empowered to write a Letter >of Support or a Letter of Agreement. In situations where the organization >wanted the TEI to be a co-applicant and therefore a co-developer we would >expect input on the proposal and a financial model that compensated the >TEI for the work of its designated members. The idea is to encourage >people pursuing funding possibilities for the development and delivery of >training to work with us to ensure that the training is of the highest >quality. What we can offer is the official support of the TEI and in >selected situations the TEI as a co-applicant. Some of the issues that >would need to be addressed in the protocol would be: > >5.1 Timing of TEI feedback (how much time do we need to review a proposal >and write a letter?) > >5.2 Review criteria (who would review proposals and what criteria would >they use for deciding if the TEI should endorse the proposal?) > >5.3 Financial model (if the TEI is a co-author how would resulting funds >be distributed? How would the TEI productively contribute to the project >and how would that contribution be compensated?) > >6. Training Review > >The TEI develop a protocol and financial model for reviewing materials and >training courses. Where the developers of materials or courses wished to >have TEI Certification they would submit the materials or course for >review and the TEI-Training subcommittee would commission a review. As a >thorough review usually involves a significant investment in time on the >part of the reviewers the TEI would charge for such reviews. (Members >would get a discount.) We would encourage developers of materials and >courses to build the review charge into funding proposals. > >7. Trainer Database > >The TEI develop an online database of trainers to supplement the list of >tutorials. Trainers could fill out an online form listing their >qualifications, experience, special training expertise, contact >information, and so on. > >The database could be extended to include review tools that would allow >students to submit comments about trainers. If trainers were willing to be >assessed the review tools would become available. A mechanism for removing >inappropriate comments would have to be included should the system be abused. > >In general, assessment of trainers by participants would help people make >informed decisions regarding training and help trainers improve their >training. The TEI doesn't need a critical evaluation process; what we need >is a system that efficiently gathers information about the strengths of >trainers in a form that others can use to find the right trainer. We are >not confident yet that we have a model that would do this, but will pursue >the idea. > >Geoffrey Rockwell grockwel at mcmaster.ca >Julia Flanders Julia_Flanders at brown.edu >Sebastian Rahtz sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk >Perry Willett pwillett at indiana.edu >Stuart Brown Stuart.Brown at oucs.ox.ac.uk > >End > >___________________________________________________________________________ > >Appendix A. List of Materials, Opportunities and Trainers > >TEI training task force website: >http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/com-train.html > > >I. TEI Training on the web: >------------------------------------ >1. Women Writers Project >http://www.wwp.brown.edu/encoding/training/ >There are four basic categories of materials here (conveniently >color-coded): >1. Encoding and Proofreading [materials to support these activities] >2. Quick how-tos [documents little tools that we've developed for >specific tasks] >3. Tutorials >4. List archives >------------------------------------ >2. Burnard, Lou > Text Encoding for Information Interchange: > http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Papers/J31/ > > TEI Extended Pointers: a Brief Tutorial > http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lou/papers/XR/ >------------------------------------ > >3. Sperberg-McQueen, Michael > What TEI Means for Your Project > >http://www.ceth.rutgers.edu/programs/TEI97/SESSIONS/MICHAEL/project.sgm.html >------------------------------------ >4. Curriculum of TEI/SGML training at CETH: >http://www.ceth.rutgers.edu/programs/TEI97/schedule.htm > >------------------------------------ >5. The TEI has a page on "Teach Yourself TEI" at >http://www.tei-c.org/Tutorials/index.html - >we need to follow up on these. >------------------------------------ >6. The E-Text Centre at U of Virginia has a Intro to TEI and Guide >at http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/tei/uvatei.html . They also have the >TEI P3 online with a search interface and quick tag lookup. See >http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/tei/ >------------------------------------ >7. The OTA has a Guide to Good Practice 1 : Creating & Documenting >Electronic Texts at >http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/publications/ID_AHDS-Publications-g2gp1.html > >------------------------------------ >8. "It's all in the Head(er)" at >http://www.etcl.nl/teiguide/headerproposal.htm is both a proposal for >the TEI Header and an introduction to it. > >------------------------------------ >9."Linking with TEI P3" is a tutorial on just that - see >http://hagen.let.rug.nl/hypertext/teip3.html > >------------------------------------ >10. "Markup Guidelines for Documentary Editions" by Hockey and >Chesnutt is for the Model Editions Partnership. See >http://mep.cla.sc.edu/MepGuide.html > >------------------------------------ >11. TEILite tutorial at Univ of New Brunswick: >http://www.lib.unb.ca/Texts/guidelines/text_guide2.htm > >------------------------------------ >12. MITH runs an XML TEI workshop. See >http://www.mith.umd.edu/outreach/xml_workshop.html > > >II. Software for using TEI >------------------------------------ >1. Kevin Russell at the U of Manitoba has a "Ebenezer's software for >the TEI" which has links to free software and a tutorial on using >EMACS for TEI. See >http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/linguistics/russell/ebenezer.htm > >------------------------------------ > > > >III. General SGML/XML/Markup training > >1. At the same site I found an XML course by Delphine Khanna. See >http://www.ceth.rutgers.edu/intromat/xml/index.htm - > >------------------------------------ >2.Burnard, Lou > What is SGML and How Does It Help? > http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Papers/EDW25/ > >------------------------------------ >3. "A Gentle Introduction to SGML" from M S-MQ is at >http://www-tei.uic.edu/orgs/tei/sgml/teip3sg/index.html > >------------------------------------ >4. A general online article on "Markup Systems and the Future of >Scholarly Text Processing" from Coombs is at >http://xml.coverpages.org/coombs.html > >------------------------------------ >5. SGML: A Textual Representation for Information Structure >by Robin Cover >http://www.sil.org/computing/noc/156ac.htm >------------------------------------ > > > >IV. Trainers >------------------------------------ >1. Elizabeth Hodder >See http://xml-sgml-coach.com/p/Liz_Hodder_Resume.pdf - she also has >a www site at http://xml-sgml-coach.com/index.html which lists >training she has done and materials created. > >------------------------------------ >2. Sydney Bauman at: >http://www.stg.brown.edu/~syd/rescmp22.pdf which mentions that he has >conducted TEI training. > >------------------------------------ >3. In his online cv Wendell Piez also says he has experience with >TEI training. See >http://www.mulberrytech.com/people/piez/wapresume.html >------------------------------------ >4. David Seaman >5. Lou Burnard >6. Sebastian Ratz >7. Julia Flanders >8. Paul Caton >9. Peter Robinson >------------------------------------ > > >V. Training opportunities > > >1. ELSNET Summer School on Language and Speech Communication >http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Talks/ESS2001/ > >----------------------------------- >2. 2002 Summer Institute at the University of New Brunswick >http://www.hil.unb.ca/Texts/ > >------------------------------------ >3. Rare Book Summer School at University of Virginia >http://www.virginia.edu/oldbooks/ > >------------------------------------ >4. 2002 ALLC/ACH Conference Tutorial on XSLT >http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/allcach2002?sflag=workshop > From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri May 3 19:29:43 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 3 May 2002 19:29:43 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Preliminary Report In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503183218.027b3438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <15571.7527.727532.661999@mama.stg.brown.edu> I haven't read the preliminary report carefully, but gave it a quick scan, and overall it looks good. Nice to have something in hand. Thanks to the subcommittee (how did Stuart get on it? Did I sleep through that? If so, wake me up) for the work and Geoff for writing it up. I'll try to give it a more thorough reading soon. In the meantime, Two quicky (and somewhat trivial) fixes jumped off the page (screen) at me:

> III. General SGML/XML/Markup training > ... > ------------------------------------ > 3. "A Gentle Introduction to SGML" from M S-MQ is at > http://www-tei.uic.edu/orgs/tei/sgml/teip3sg/index.html In general, the editors take joint credit for work they've done on the Guidelines, but if recollection serves, Lou is actually the main author of this chapter. The URL given, although not dead, is dis- tinctly outdated. Better to use http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/GL/P3/SG.htm for P3's "A Gentle Introduction to SGML" (I don't know whether it's the 1994 or 1999 edition of P3, though, but I'm not sure there were any changes to that chapter, anyway), and http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/SG.html for P4's "A Gentle Introduction to XML".

> ------------------------------------ > 2. Sydney Bauman at: Not even my mother calls me "Sydney". Not even when she's mad. :-) From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat May 4 14:18:53 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 4 May 2002 19:18:53 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: Fwd: Preliminary Report In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020503183218.027b3438@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: I have placed this version of the document on the Board website for now, as it is for discussion at the next meeting. Its URL is http://www.tei-c.org/Board/bmr05.txt and there is a link to it from the Board meeting agenda.

On Fri, 3 May 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Geoff Rockwell's preliminary report on the TEI Council's Training > subcommittee. Thanks very much for your work so far, Geoff (and Julia > Flanders, Perry Willett, Stuart Brown, and Sebastian Rahtz). [...] > > > > > >1. ELSNET Summer School on Language and Speech Communication > >http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Talks/ESS2001/ > >

Somewhat to my horror, I've just learned that this set of 5 lectures is now accessible in streaming video from http://media.nis.sdu.dk/elsnet/

Lou (star of stage, screen, and realaudio) Burnard From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed May 15 15:31:10 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:31:10 -0400 Subject: request for information Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020515152917.025e83b0@128.143.22.122> Could members of the board or council let me know (by email to jmu2m at virignia.edu, not by reply to these lists) if they have first-hand knowledge of text encoding activities at African universities and/or libraries. Names of specific institutions, better yet, of specific individuals, if you have them. Thanks, John From tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no Thu May 16 09:17:36 2002 From: tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no (Tone Merete Bruvik) Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 15:17:36 +0200 Subject: Reviewers of P4 Message-ID: Dear members of the Board and Council, We need suggestions on persons and places we should ask to review the P4. They will get a fee set of the blue books, and we will ask them as soon as possible. Please send your suggestions to the list as soon as possible, no later than the end of May. -- Tone Merete Bruvik From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun May 19 13:53:05 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:53:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: Downloading the Guidelines (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: URGENT! What's the anmswer to this chap's question? Did we decide? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- On Sat, 18 May 2002, Lou Burnard wrote: > This might be a good moment to remind readers of this list that a far > superior and more beautiful PDF version of the Guidelines is now > accessible, but only to paid-up members of the consortium! Go on, you > know it makes sense... Is the beautiful version available to subscribers too? OR just to members? Jagdish -- Jagdish S. Gangolly (j.gangolly at albany.edu) State University of New York at Albany, Albany, NY 12222. Phone: (518) 442-4949 Fax: (707) 897-0601 URL: http://www.albany.edu/acc/gangolly From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun May 19 16:02:25 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 21:02:25 +0100 Subject: Downloading the Guidelines (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020519200225.GG4512@spqr-dell> On Sun, May 19, 2002 at 06:53:05PM +0100, Lou Burnard wrote: > > URGENT! What's the anmswer to this chap's question? Did we decide? > gurk. I think we said yes. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun May 19 18:10:44 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:10:44 -0400 Subject: Downloading the Guidelines (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020519181015.021a3130@128.143.22.122> At 06:53 PM 5/19/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Is the beautiful version available to subscribers too? OR just to members? To both subscribers and members. John From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Wed May 22 03:01:56 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:01:56 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Reviewers of P4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200205220701.JAA18815@obelix.ijs.si> Tone Merete Bruvik writes: > Dear members of the Board and Council, > > We need suggestions on persons and places we should ask to review the > P4. They will get a fee set of the blue books, and we will ask them > as soon as possible. Please send your suggestions to the list as soon > as possible, no later than the end of May. > -- > Tone Merete Bruvik I went through the recent tei-l archives and - more or less (although not only) on the basis of how much and what they have posted - could suggest the following: Michael Beddow Charles Muller Wendell Piez Rafal T. Prinke Ralph Cleminson Anne Mahoney and how about: Robin Cover The reasoning is that folks that have the inclination to post answers to the list would make good reviewers. Best, Tomaz -- Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed May 22 10:02:05 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:02:05 +0100 Subject: TEI-MS and MASTER In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020522140204.GA25198@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Dear Consuelo Apologies if my remark offended: no slight was intended -- I do distinctly remember approaching Merrilee before the Pisa meeting in Nov and asking her to present the two dtds to the members meeting, which she duly did, and which I assume was done with your knowledge! During the council meeting after the presentations, Matthew made the proposal which I was referring to, and which I must say I thought Merrilee agreed to at the time (she was certainly present, as a member of the council, as she was when the matter was touched on again at the London meeting of the council). But I may be mistaken, and of course, she is in any case fully entitled to change her mind, as are you to propose some other course of action. The one thing we cannot, in my view, continue to have is two DTDs. We need to have a single set of proposals for incorporation into P5. I don't think this is a difficult task to achieve -- it just needs someone to get down to resolving the (really rather few) discrepancies between the two. I would offer to do it myself, or ask Syd, but I think this would confuse the matter when we come to do the integration into P5 (with our TEI Editors' hats on), and in any case I think it's important that both workgroups should have ownership of the proposal. Whom would you suggest if Merrilee is not available? How about Eva Nylander? Or do you think the idea of trying to reconcile the two DTDs is dead in the water? best wishes Lou

On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 08:09:32AM -0400, Consuelo W Dutschke wrote: > John (et al.), > > I'm grateful that Merrilee brought this up and was interested to read your > answer: like Merrilee, I was surprised to read Lou's comment about > Matthew and Merrilee being requested by the Consortium/Council to > reconcile our work group's dtd and that of Master, since no one had said > anything to me or to Ambrogio about this. One would have expected due > process, if not courtesy to the TEI work group's co-chairs to discuss this > with us first, before a public statement about reconciliation and about > those charged with accomplishing it. > > One small but significant correction to your message: you referred to the > one group as "Master" and to the other as "the US working group." Our TEI > working group was not "US" but was very intentionally put together to > represent a number of countries and to loosen an apparent Anglo-American > bias to working groups, generally. Hence the nationalities of those in > the group are: > Dutschke--American > Kidd--English > Nylander--Swedish > Piazzoni--Italian/Vatican > Proffitt--American > Our funding came both from the TEI itself (international) and, indirectly, > from the Mellon Foundation (private, not governmental). Thus, while the > Master project can acurately be characterized as European in its funding > and its membership, the TEI working group is not "US." I can appreciate > that this wording was used fairly casually, as a shorthand designation, > but I wanted to clarify the situation for the record. > > Again, many thanks to Merrilee for bringing this up publically, and to > you, John, for your words of clarification. I hope that we can move > forward successfully. > > all best, > \Consuelo > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 23 11:45:38 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:45:38 -0400 Subject: conference call Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522155858.022fca48@128.143.22.122> Council members, I'd like to set up a time for a conference call, some time in June. Perry Willett has offered to host this call (thanks, Perry). It would not be a toll-free number, but TEI would reimburse phone charges. Would you let me know whether you will be *unavailable* for a call on any business day during the week of June 25th? If we can find a day, I will work on a time--this will be a challenge, since if I reckon the time difference correctly, 8 am on the east coast in the US will be 2 pm in western europe, and 10 pm in Japan. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu May 23 12:16:06 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:16:06 +0100 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020522155858.022fca48@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <20020523161606.GF26091@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> June 25th is a Tuesday in my diary, which seems an odd day to begin the week, but anyway, I will be unavailable for much of the 26th (travelling) and on holiday in France from then until 3rd July. That doesn't preclude me participating in a conversation, I suppose (if the wife will let me) though it might be a bit expensive by cellphone. Lou On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 11:45:38AM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > Council members, > > I'd like to set up a time for a conference call, some time in June. Perry > Willett has offered to host this call (thanks, Perry). It would not be a > toll-free number, but TEI would reimburse phone charges. Would you let me > know whether you will be *unavailable* for a call on any business day > during the week of June 25th? If we can find a day, I will work on a > time--this will be a challenge, since if I reckon the time difference > correctly, 8 am on the east coast in the US will be 2 pm in western europe, > and 10 pm in Japan. > > John > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu May 23 14:10:51 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:10:51 -0400 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <20020523161606.GF26091@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523140949.0230eea0@128.143.22.122> At 05:16 PM 5/23/2002 +0100, Lou Burnard wrote: >June 25th is a Tuesday in my diary, which seems an odd day to begin >the week, but anyway, I will be unavailable for much of the 26th >(travelling) and on holiday in France from then until 3rd July. you're right--my mistake. Let's concentrate on Monday, the 24th of June: people who have already said they would be available all week need not restate. Anyone unavailable at the likely time for your time zone, on Monday the 24th? John From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu May 23 20:32:46 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 09:32:46 +0900 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523140949.0230eea0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > you're right--my mistake. Let's concentrate on Monday, the 24th of June: > people who have already said they would be available all week need not > restate. Anyone unavailable at the likely time for your time zone, on > Monday the 24th? I'll be available.

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat May 25 18:40:52 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 23:40:52 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: Reviewers of P4 In-Reply-To: <200205220701.JAA18815@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: By what criteria are we suggesting reviewers? In my view, they should be people who will produce a good review of P4, to help in its promotion and distribution and, anove all, their review is reasonably likely to get published somewhere where it may have some impact. I don't know how well these suggestions all match these criteria. In what journals would we expect to see TEI reviewed? Presumably LLC, CHum and so on, but surely we ought to be targetting beyond our immediate community a little? I think the suggestion of Robin Cover is a very good one, though: he will definitely do a good write up and it will have a wide outreach. I think we could suggest some of the names on Tomasz' list as reviewers to journals though: e.g. I think Michael Beddow would do us a very good piece for one kind of journal, and Wendell would probably do us a good one for a different kind of journal.

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > Tone Merete Bruvik writes: > > Dear members of the Board and Council, > > > > We need suggestions on persons and places we should ask to review the > > P4. They will get a fee set of the blue books, and we will ask them > > as soon as possible. Please send your suggestions to the list as soon > > as possible, no later than the end of May. > > -- > > Tone Merete Bruvik > > I went through the recent tei-l archives and - more or less (although > not only) on the basis of how much and what they have posted - > could suggest the following: > > Michael Beddow > Charles Muller > Wendell Piez > Rafal T. Prinke > Ralph Cleminson > Anne Mahoney > > and how about: > Robin Cover > > The reasoning is that folks that have the inclination to post answers > to the list would make good reviewers. > > Best, > Tomaz > > -- > Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 > email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" > www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana > fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia > From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Sun May 26 10:52:01 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:52:01 +0200 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523140949.0230eea0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <3CF112B1.21499.1462145@localhost> I will available at Monday until 3 pm (Western Europe), that is for one hour. rest of the week: available the whole day from Wednesday to Friday Fotis Jannidis

Date sent: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:10:51 -0400 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu, tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu From: John Unsworth Subject: Re: conference call Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > At 05:16 PM 5/23/2002 +0100, Lou Burnard wrote: > >June 25th is a Tuesday in my diary, which seems an odd day to begin > >the week, but anyway, I will be unavailable for much of the 26th > >(travelling) and on holiday in France from then until 3rd July. > > you're right--my mistake. Let's concentrate on Monday, the 24th of > June: people who have already said they would be available all week > need not restate. Anyone unavailable at the likely time for your time > zone, on Monday the 24th? > > John > From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Sun May 26 11:04:33 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 17:04:33 +0200 Subject: Reviewers of P4 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3CF115A1.837.15198C7@localhost> Maybe we should also compile a list of publications where we wish a review (or description) on P4 to appear and also include larger national journals which could be of interest. That way we could reach people who don't already know about TEI. In Germany the best place would be the widely read computer magazine ct (www.heise.de) which also has longer technically oriented articles. Is there any interest in national addresses for the press release? Fotis Jannidis

Date sent: Sat, 25 May 2002 23:40:52 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: Lou Burnard To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: Re: Reviewers of P4 Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > > By what criteria are we suggesting reviewers? > > In my view, they should be people who will produce a good review of > P4, to help in its promotion and distribution and, anove all, their > review is reasonably likely to get published somewhere where it may > have some impact. > > I don't know how well these suggestions all match these criteria. > > In what journals would we expect to see TEI reviewed? Presumably LLC, > CHum and so on, but surely we ought to be targetting beyond our > immediate community a little? > > I think the suggestion of Robin Cover is a very good one, though: he > will definitely do a good write up and it will have a wide outreach. > > I think we could suggest some of the names on Tomasz' list as > reviewers to journals though: e.g. I think Michael Beddow would do us > a very good piece for one kind of journal, and Wendell would probably > do us a good one for a different kind of journal. > > > > > On Wed, 22 May > 2002, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > > Tone Merete Bruvik writes: > > > Dear members of the Board and Council, > > > > > > We need suggestions on persons and places we should ask to review > > > the P4. They will get a fee set of the blue books, and we will > > > ask them as soon as possible. Please send your suggestions to the > > > list as soon as possible, no later than the end of May. -- Tone > > > Merete Bruvik > > > > I went through the recent tei-l archives and - more or less > > (although not only) on the basis of how much and what they have > > posted - could suggest the following: > > > > Michael Beddow > > Charles Muller > > Wendell Piez > > Rafal T. Prinke > > Ralph Cleminson > > Anne Mahoney > > > > and how about: > > Robin Cover > > > > The reasoning is that folks that have the inclination to post > > answers to the list would make good reviewers. > > > > Best, > > Tomaz > > > > -- > > Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8 > > email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan" www: > > http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana fax: (+386 > > 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia > > > From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Tue Jun 4 07:03:53 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:03:53 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Reviewers of P4 In-Reply-To: <3CF115A1.837.15198C7@localhost> Message-ID: <200206041103.NAA11345@obelix.ijs.si> Fotis Jannidis writes: > Maybe we should also compile a list of publications where we wish a > review (or description) on P4 to appear For the language technology / computational linguistics scene - where I definitely think TEI is not enough known or used - I would suggest: - ElsNews, the quaterly newsletter of ElsNet http://www.elsnet.org/elsnews.html - the EACL (electronic) newsletter http://www.eacl.org/ Best, Tomaz From tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no Fri Jun 7 07:30:02 2002 From: tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no (Tone Merete Bruvik) Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:30:02 +0200 Subject: Travel reimbursement etc. Message-ID: We would appreciate if any reimbursement claims you might have is sent to us as soon as possible. Claus Huitfeldt is going to have a relatively long leave this summer and he is the one who is signing the checks. The reimbursement will take longer time than usual if we receive the claims after June 25. -- Tone Merete Bruvik From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Jun 9 13:27:35 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:27:35 +0100 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020523140949.0230eea0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <20020609172735.GH20585@spqr-dell> I realize I neve replied to this. Are we on for June 24th? I could make it. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jun 11 10:10:24 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 10:10:24 -0400 Subject: conference call Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020611100753.021ddbe8@128.143.22.122> RE: TEI Council conference call, Monday, June 24th: Time: 5 am on the west coast of the US, 8 am on the east coast of the US, 2 pm in western europe, and 10 pm in Japan. By my reckoning, Laurent Romary and David Durand are either certainly or probably unable to take part at this time; I have not heard from David Birnbaum or Tomaz Erjavec. The rest of us (8 council members and both editors) have confirmed availability, so I think we should go ahead. David Birnbaum (2001-2002) ?? Matthew Driscoll (2001-2003) yes David Durand (2001-2002) probably not Tomaz Erjavec (2001-2003) ?? Fotis Jannidis (2001-2002) yes Merrilee Proffitt (2001-2003) yes Sebastian Rahtz (board representative) yes Geoff Rockwell (2001-2002) yes Laurent Romary (2001-2003) no John Unsworth (chair) yes Perry Willett (2001-2003) yes Christian Wittern (2001-2003) yes Ex officio: Syd Bauman (editor) yes Lou Burnard (editor) yes

According to Perry, this would be a "Meet-Me Teleconference": This type of teleconference allows up to 48 parties to connect together at a designated time by calling a predetermined telephone number. Callers can participate from any location and do not have to wait by the phone for a conference operator to call. Long distance charges (if any) are the responsibility of each caller participating in the conference. TEI will reimburse phone charges. Perry, if you would go ahead and set up the call, and send out the number, that would be great. Thanks, John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jun 11 16:02:15 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:02:15 -0400 Subject: conference call Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020611160027.02318df0@128.143.22.122> For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be forthcoming, from Perry. John From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Jun 11 16:49:20 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020611160027.02318df0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and Christian have it worse). I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? Here's the procedure: Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at end). If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of course, I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. Let me know if the instructions are unclear. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University Email: pwillett at indiana.edu Phone: 812-855-9290

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to > attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David > Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, > please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be > forthcoming, from Perry. > > John > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jun 11 17:20:50 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 17:20:50 -0400 Subject: conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020611171936.02353498@128.143.22.122> At 03:49 PM 6/11/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th >at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and >Christian have it worse). >I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? I think that should do--Fotis will only be able to stay on for an hour, Merillee for an hour and a half, but we might go as long as two hours. The procedural notes are quite clear--thanks for setting this up. John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 08:57:06 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:57:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: would council members like to express an oppinion as to whether i am being ovber sensitive here?

---------------------------------------------------------------- Lou Burnard http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lou ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:54:32 +0100 (BST) From: Lou Burnard Reply-To: tei-chars at maillist.ox.ac.uk To: tei-chars Cc: tei-council at lists.jefferson.village.edu Subject: Re: First Wave of Project Inquiries While I appreciate your motives for doing this Patrick, I think in general this kind of mass-spamming is not a good idea. A general enquiry to TEI-L woiuld reach exactly the saqme people and would not risk offending people who don't like to be targetted in this unsolicited way.I think people may well be inhibited from keeping the web site up to date with their projects details if they think we are making their email addresses available in this kind of way. Maybe I'm just unduly sensitive to this because of the quantity of spam I get myself. Would you mind asking other members of the Council their views on the topic before continuing this exercise? Lou

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Patrick Durusau wrote: |Greetings, | |I am about to send out the first wave of inquiries to TEI projects for |character set / writing system declaration issues. I have copied the |tei-chars list with the project name appearing in the subject line so we |won't duplicate contacts. This first batch covers from African American |Women Writers of the 19th Century through the Cursus Project on the |projects using TEI page. |(http://www.tei-c.org/Applications/index-az.html) ( I did skip |Christian's project since I assume he will make his issues known to the |group. ;-) | |I will try to send out another wave of these either later today or early |tomorrow. | |Patrick | |-- |Patrick Durusau |Director of Research and Development |Society of Biblical Literature |pdurusau at emory.edu | | | | ---------------------------------------------------------------- Lou Burnard http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lou ---------------------------------------------------------------- From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jun 13 09:04:26 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:04:26 +0100 Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020613130424.GU15416@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Thu, Jun 13, 2002 at 01:57:06PM +0100, Lou Burnard wrote: > > would council members like to express an oppinion as to whether i am being > ovber sensitive here? yes, I think you are. whats the point of contact emails on the web page if people cannot contact them to ask questions? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jun 13 09:39:23 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 09:39:23 -0400 Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613093721.021996a0@128.143.22.122> At 01:57 PM 6/13/2002 +0100, you wrote: >would council members like to express an oppinion as to whether i am being >ovber sensitive here? I hate spam as much, possibly more, than the next guy, but this doesn't fit that description. He's writing to TEI projects with a TEI-related inquiry, and not actually mass-mailing, or delivering the inquiry to people who don't care, or who don't need toner cartridges or home loans or enormous whatevers. John From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Jun 13 10:42:21 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:42:21 -0400 Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613093721.021996a0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <15624.44877.23168.272208@mama.stg.brown.edu> While I think Sebastian & John are right, Lou is being oversensitive, I think Lou is right, the question would have been better positioned on TEI-L than as mail to those people who were listed as contacts at some point in those projects that we know about. The contact person listed may well be an administrator with no interest in encoding at all (there exist such people?), let alone character sets. I'll also point out that Patrick and the rest of tei-chars are not on this list, and thus have not seen much of our discussion. If no one else makes a summary and sends it off to tei-chars, I will in a couple of hours. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Jun 13 18:44:50 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 07:44:50 +0900 Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lou, As you know, we discussed this on tei-chars. I suggested to post to TEI-L, but others felt it would be more successful to target specific projects directly. Nobody raised any concerns that this could be considered spam. (Which feeling I don't share -- but I do think that having the contact adresses listed on the web site certainly causes these people to receive a *lot* of spam) All the best, Christian Lou Burnard writes: > would council members like to express an oppinion as to whether i am being > ovber sensitive here? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Lou Burnard http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lou > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:54:32 +0100 (BST) > From: Lou Burnard > Reply-To: tei-chars at maillist.ox.ac.uk > To: tei-chars > Cc: tei-council at lists.jefferson.village.edu > Subject: Re: First Wave of Project Inquiries > > While I appreciate your motives for doing this Patrick, I think in > general this kind of mass-spamming is not a good idea. A general > enquiry to TEI-L woiuld reach exactly the saqme people and would not > risk offending people who don't like to be targetted in this > unsolicited way.I think people may well be inhibited from keeping the > web site up to date with their projects details if they think we are > making their email addresses available in this kind of way. Maybe I'm > just unduly sensitive to this because of the quantity of spam I get > myself. Would you mind asking other members of the Council their views > on the topic before continuing this exercise? > > Lou > > > On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Patrick Durusau wrote: > > |Greetings, > | > |I am about to send out the first wave of inquiries to TEI projects for > |character set / writing system declaration issues. I have copied the > |tei-chars list with the project name appearing in the subject line so we > |won't duplicate contacts. This first batch covers from African American > |Women Writers of the 19th Century through the Cursus Project on the > |projects using TEI page. > |(http://www.tei-c.org/Applications/index-az.html) ( I did skip > |Christian's project since I assume he will make his issues known to the > |group. ;-) > | > |I will try to send out another wave of these either later today or early > |tomorrow. > | > |Patrick > | > |-- > |Patrick Durusau > |Director of Research and Development > |Society of Biblical Literature > |pdurusau at emory.edu > | > | > | > | > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Lou Burnard http://users.ox.ac.uk/~lou > ---------------------------------------------------------------- -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Jun 14 02:47:28 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:47:28 +0200 Subject: First Wave of Project Inquiries (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613093721.021996a0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <3D09ADA0.30988.74217@localhost> Although I see Lou's point, I agree with John (and Sebastian) that this sort of thing is not spam. (What the TEI needs is an enormous membership - the size of the individual members' members is unimportant.) MJD CPH > At 01:57 PM 6/13/2002 +0100, you wrote: > > >would council members like to express an oppinion as to whether i am being > >ovber sensitive here? > > I hate spam as much, possibly more, than the next guy, but this doesn't fit > that description. He's writing to TEI projects with a TEI-related inquiry, > and not actually mass-mailing, or delivering the inquiry to people who > don't care, or who don't need toner cartridges or home loans or enormous > whatevers. > > John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Jun 14 08:43:53 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 08:43:53 -0400 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020613230051.021a0250@128.143.22.122> TEI Conference Call, Monday, June 24, 2002: PLEASE READ ALL THE WAY THROUGH THIS NOW questions, changes of assignment, or corrections to jmu2m at virginia.edu Expected: Syd Bauman, David Birnbaum, Lou Burnard, Matthew Driscoll, Tomaz Erjavec, Fotis Jannidis, Merrilee Proffitt, Sebastian Rahtz, Geoff Rockwell, John Unsworth, Perry Willett, Christian Wittern Unavailable: David Durand, Laurent Romary Instructions: At 8am EDT (5 am West Coast, 7 am Indiana, 2 pm Western Europe, 10 pm Japan) call (812) 856-3550 and when prompted for a passcode enter 0612 followed by the pound sign. Several Council members can only be available for an hour, so we'll conclude the call by 9 am EDT. Our main topic of discussion for this meeting is P5, but I would like to deal (as quickly as possible) with other issues first, and I would like particular council members to take responsibility for certain parts of the discussion, so an overview of our agenda looks like this: 1. Subcommittee reports (Matthew, Geoff; 10 minutes) 2. P5, including workgroup reports (Sebastian? Christian, Lou? Merrilee, Matthew; 40 minutes) 3. Future business, next meeting, etc.(John, 10 minutes) There are links, below, to material I would like everyone to review before the phone call: none of these items are long, but we will obviously not have time to read our way through them during the call. If anyone would like the Council to review other documents before our discussion, please send them to me and I will put them up on the web, or send me a URL; if there are revisions or additions, I will circulate a revised version of this document before the conference call. Sebastian, I'd like you to take responsibility for the discussion of core tags and schema in P5; Lou, since David Durand isn't likely to be able to make it, I'd like you to take responsibility for Xlink, Xpointer, Standoff Markup--and David, you should try to talk to Lou before the call, assuming he agrees to do this. Agenda: 1. Review subcommittee reports on certification and training. In particular, we need to approve (or otherwise respond to) the RFPs for training, one of which is connected to our October members' meeting, and needs to be circulated as soon as possible. A. Subcommittee on Certification -- Matthew (5 minutes) Matthew Driscoll's interim report: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/certification.05-02.txt B. Subcommittee on Training, RFPs for approval -- Geoff (5 minutes) The general RFP (with a few corrections over the previous copy sent you): http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.training.rfp.xml tei.ach.2003.training.rfp.xml - This is the RFP specific to the ACH conference: http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.ach.2003.training.rfp.xml tei.Oct.2002.training.rfp.xml - This is the RFP specific to the Oct TEI meeting. http://jefferson.village.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/tei.Oct.2002.training.rfp.xml Geoff Rockwell says: "The two specific ones have not yet been edited by the respective conference organizers. Specific details will change as we coordinate the RFPs with Bill and Peter. We send them to you so that the Board can approve them. (The October RFP needs to be approved in the near future so that we can advertise it.)"

2. P5: Background material: Revision of P4: http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw71.html (see particularly item 6 under "work to be done") and Council Meeting Notes on the discussion of P5: http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/tcm01.html#I3 and Rules and Recommendations for Workgroups (revised 2002): http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html A. Core Tags and Schema (identified in our last Council meeting as the business of the Council) -- Sebastian? (10 minutes) B. Character Encoding WG update -- Christian Wittern (10 minutes) Charge to the Character Encoding WG http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw75.html C. Stand-Off Markup, Xlink, Xpointer WG -- Lou? (10 minutes) Charge to the Stand-Off Markup, Xlink, Xpointer WG: http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw74.html and David's May update: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/TEI/xlink.05-02.txt D. Medieval MSS description -- Merrilee, Matthew (10 minutes)

3. Next meeting, assignments, future business -- John (10 minutes) From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jun 19 15:04:27 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:04:27 -0400 Subject: press release translated Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020619150150.01d195f0@128.143.22.122> Translations of the press release announcing the publication of P4 are being posted at: http://www.tei-c.org/Publicity/p4release.html At present, the list includes arabic, french, german, italian, portuguese, and russian. Other languages will be added shortly. If you belong to a relevant list in any of these languages, or know individuals who might be interested in the news in translation, please post accordingly. thanks, John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Jun 23 19:25:15 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:25:15 +0100 Subject: notes for conference call on 24th Message-ID: <20020623232515.GG15628@spqr-dell> for the 10 minutes that John has asked me to deal with, can I ask participants to have glanced over http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/oddng.html, and consider some of the following thoughts. Core P5 activities 2002-2003 **************************** A) There are a variety of reasons for changing the base markup of the Guidelines, in no special order: * to *analyse* constraint markup * to strengthen *existing* datatyping (ie enforce limitations now only given in words) * to add datatyping (ie convert woolly prose to precise limitations) * to parameterize all datatype constraints (to allow for per-project tightening or loosening) We can also take the opportunity to bring the ODDs into sync with what is described in P4, and convert the TSD to a normal tagset. Most of this is is covered in the "oddng" paper, which argues in favour of a schema language to replace the existing embedded

B) We need to open P4 to change: * we can make ODDs consistent in depth of description * we need to ask for candidates for addition, addition, or omission of tags [re-establish TCC?] * we need to consider candidates for correction, addition or omission of tagsets [work groups, when funds permit] * we should look at revision of the metadata, including addition of embedded metadata

C) What to do? Definition of the new tagset has to be complete of 2002. Minimally, it has to be expressed entirely in XML, and it has to be a TEI topping. Thereafter, the Council needs to express its views on the timetable, on the priorities, and how to divide up the work. Here is a set of stalking horses for the Council to discuss: 1. The proposal for "son of ODD" markup should be completed by 12/2002. Responsibility for the initial draft to lie with LB and SR. 2. At the start of 2003, we a) release (hopefully) a P4 supplement with the character set revision and the manuscript additional tagset b) start a public consultation about omissions/additions/corrections of tags and tagsets (coordinated by SB) c) release a table of contents for P5 3. in 3/2003, we make a public statement about where the TEI is going with regard to W3C standards, linking etc; it is clear at this point how P5 is going to work. 4. from 01/2003 to 06/2003, P5 is on the table and open for dissection 5. at the end of 06/2002, P5 is stabilized and is open for content editing 6. In 12/2003, we release a beta version of P5, for publication in 2004 -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Sun Jun 23 21:47:26 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 20:47:26 -0500 (EST) Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought I'd resend this, just in case you misplaced it. Also, it hit me today that I set up the call to begin on the hour, rather than a few minutes before. Therefore, you'll need to wait until :00 or :01 to call. (Next time, I'll set it up for :50 or something.) Bis morgen, Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: "C. Perry Willett" To: TEI Council Subject: Re: conference call Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and Christian have it worse). I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? Here's the procedure: Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at end). If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of course, I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. Let me know if the instructions are unclear. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University Email: pwillett at indiana.edu Phone: 812-855-9290

On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to > attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David > Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, > please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be > forthcoming, from Perry. > > John > > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jun 24 09:09:33 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:09:33 +0900 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi there, Its 10 pm in Japan and Perry just told me that its all over -- someone got the timezones mixed up, I guess. Thats what I love with email:-) Good night to everybody, Christian "C. Perry Willett" writes: > I thought I'd resend this, just in case you misplaced > it. Also, it hit me today that I set up the call to > begin on the hour, rather than a few minutes before. > Therefore, you'll need to wait until :00 or :01 to > call. (Next time, I'll set it up for :50 or something.) > Bis morgen, > > Perry > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) > From: "C. Perry Willett" > To: TEI Council > Subject: Re: conference call > > Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th > at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and > Christian have it worse). > I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? > > Here's the procedure: > > Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) > > You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at > end). > > If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of course, > I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. > Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in > the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. > Let me know if the instructions are unclear. > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > Email: pwillett at indiana.edu > Phone: 812-855-9290 > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > >> For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to >> attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David >> Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, >> please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be >> forthcoming, from Perry. >> >> John >> >> >> > > > > > > -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Mon Jun 24 09:20:32 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:20:32 +0200 (METDST) Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200206241320.PAA27129@obelix.ijs.si> Hi, same thing here, alas. Well, at least I wasn't the only one left feeling like an idiot :) Night, Tomaz Christian Wittern writes: > > Hi there, > > Its 10 pm in Japan and Perry just told me that its all over -- someone > got the timezones mixed up, I guess. Thats what I love with email:-) > > Good night to everybody, > > Christian > > "C. Perry Willett" writes: > > > I thought I'd resend this, just in case you misplaced > > it. Also, it hit me today that I set up the call to > > begin on the hour, rather than a few minutes before. > > Therefore, you'll need to wait until :00 or :01 to > > call. (Next time, I'll set it up for :50 or something.) > > Bis morgen, > > > > Perry > > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) > > From: "C. Perry Willett" > > To: TEI Council > > Subject: Re: conference call > > > > Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th > > at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and > > Christian have it worse). > > I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? > > > > Here's the procedure: > > > > Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) > > > > You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at > > end). > > > > If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of course, > > I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. > > Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in > > the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. > > Let me know if the instructions are unclear. > > > > Perry Willett > > Main Library > > Indiana University > > Email: pwillett at indiana.edu > > Phone: 812-855-9290 > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > > >> For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to > >> attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David > >> Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, > >> please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be > >> forthcoming, from Perry. > >> > >> John > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Jun 24 09:36:27 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 08:36:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200206241320.PAA27129@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: My apologies about the time--part of the confusion probably arises from the state of Indiana's unwillingness to join the rest of the US in adopting daylight savings. We're on permanent Eastern standard time, which in practical terms means we're the same time as Chicago in the spring and summer, and New York in the fall and winter. As a result, no one really knows what time it is in Indiana (in several senses). I'll try to figure out the time in GMT for the next call. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > Hi, > same thing here, alas. > Well, at least I wasn't the only one left feeling like an idiot :) > Night, > Tomaz > > > Christian Wittern writes: > > > > Hi there, > > > > Its 10 pm in Japan and Perry just told me that its all over -- someone > > got the timezones mixed up, I guess. Thats what I love with email:-) > > > > Good night to everybody, > > > > Christian > > > > "C. Perry Willett" writes: > > > > > I thought I'd resend this, just in case you misplaced > > > it. Also, it hit me today that I set up the call to > > > begin on the hour, rather than a few minutes before. > > > Therefore, you'll need to wait until :00 or :01 to > > > call. (Next time, I'll set it up for :50 or something.) > > > Bis morgen, > > > > > > Perry > > > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) > > > From: "C. Perry Willett" > > > To: TEI Council > > > Subject: Re: conference call > > > > > > Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th > > > at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and > > > Christian have it worse). > > > I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? > > > > > > Here's the procedure: > > > > > > Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) > > > > > > You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at > > > end). > > > > > > If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of course, > > > I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. > > > Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in > > > the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. > > > Let me know if the instructions are unclear. > > > > > > Perry Willett > > > Main Library > > > Indiana University > > > Email: pwillett at indiana.edu > > > Phone: 812-855-9290 > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > > >> For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be able to > > >> attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David > > >> Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last minute, > > >> please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be > > >> forthcoming, from Perry. > > >> > > >> John > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Christian Wittern > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Jun 24 10:09:39 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:09:39 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15639.10275.245406.824920@mama.stg.brown.edu> > My apologies about the time--part of the confusion probably arises > from the state of Indiana's unwillingness to join the rest of the > US in adopting daylight savings. We're on permanent Eastern > standard time, ... As a result, no one really knows what time it is > in Indiana (in several senses). Indeed. But if you ask me (and I realize no one did, but I'm expressing sympathy as I suffered similar headaches when I lived in Arizona) the rest of the US is nuts, and states like Indiana and Arizona have the right idea. The civilized world agreed on a time zone system to try to make scheduling things (even in close vicinity -- a difference of 1° of longitude is 4 minutes) easier, why do we have to muck it up by pretending to jump around the clock an hour (or the surface of the earth 15° of longitude) twice a year? Anyway, sorry to have missed you Christian and Tomaz. As you weren't present to defend yourselves you were appointed co-chairs of the new committee responsible for convincing the UN to endow the TEI. We are expecting no less than 2 million euros in small bills by the October member's meeting. Get to work. From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Jun 24 10:41:36 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 07:41:36 -0700 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020624074006.01fc5b60@notes.rlg.org> All, While the interface is a bit clunky, the World Time Server is a very handy tool for figuring out what is what. I always use this to double check what the day will be when I'm planning to call Australia and New Zealand, for example. Anyhow, onwards! URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/ Merrilee At 08:36 AM 6/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: >My apologies about the time--part of the confusion probably >arises from the state of Indiana's unwillingness to join >the rest of the US in adopting daylight savings. We're on >permanent Eastern standard time, which in practical terms >means we're the same time as Chicago in the spring and summer, >and New York in the fall and winter. As a result, no one really >knows what time it is in Indiana (in several senses). I'll >try to figure out the time in GMT for the next call. > >Perry >pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > >On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Tomaz Erjavec wrote: > > > Hi, > > same thing here, alas. > > Well, at least I wasn't the only one left feeling like an idiot :) > > Night, > > Tomaz > > > > > > Christian Wittern writes: > > > > > > Hi there, > > > > > > Its 10 pm in Japan and Perry just told me that its all over -- someone > > > got the timezones mixed up, I guess. Thats what I love with email:-) > > > > > > Good night to everybody, > > > > > > Christian > > > > > > "C. Perry Willett" writes: > > > > > > > I thought I'd resend this, just in case you misplaced > > > > it. Also, it hit me today that I set up the call to > > > > begin on the hour, rather than a few minutes before. > > > > Therefore, you'll need to wait until :00 or :01 to > > > > call. (Next time, I'll set it up for :50 or something.) > > > > Bis morgen, > > > > > > > > Perry > > > > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:49:20 -0500 (EST) > > > > From: "C. Perry Willett" > > > > To: TEI Council > > > > Subject: Re: conference call > > > > > > > > Okay, all, the conference call is set up for Monday, June 24th > > > > at 8am EDT. That's 7am Indiana time (I suppose Merrilee and > > > > Christian have it worse). > > > > I set it up for 2 hours--is that long enough? > > > > > > > > Here's the procedure: > > > > > > > > Call (812) 856-3550 (with whatever international dialing stuff first) > > > > > > > > You'll be prompted for a passcode--it's 0612# (that's a pound sign at > > > > end). > > > > > > > > If you have any problems, you can call me at (812) 855-9290. Of > course, > > > > I'll already be on the phone, so you'll get a busy signal. > > > > Since I'll have the place to myself at 7am, you can call the phone in > > > > the next cubicle at (812) 856-5759, and I'll dash over to pick it up. > > > > Let me know if the instructions are unclear. > > > > > > > > Perry Willett > > > > Main Library > > > > Indiana University > > > > Email: pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > Phone: 812-855-9290 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > > > > > > >> For the record, it looks as though everyone will, in fact, be > able to > > > >> attend the conference call except for Laurent Romary and David > > > >> Durand. Laurent, David--if your plans change, even at the last > minute, > > > >> please do join us. Instructions on how to join the call will be > > > >> forthcoming, from Perry. > > > >> > > > >> John > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Christian Wittern > > > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > > > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN > > > > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Jun 24 10:47:35 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 07:47:35 -0700 Subject: URL for charge for Med. Man. desc. workgroup Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020624055754.02080668@notes.rlg.org> The scope of work for the TEI Work Group on Medieval Manuscript Description is outlined at: http://www.stg.brown.edu/~tei-mmss/ What will be done in the upcoming months is to harmonize the work done by the MASTER project with the work done by this group. Merrilee Merrilee Proffitt Research Libraries Group -- www.rlg.org 1200 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041 USA voice: +1-650-691-2309 -- mgp at notes.rlg.org From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jun 24 13:42:23 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:42:23 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624133326.01e77368@128.143.22.122> At 08:36 AM 6/24/2002 -0500, C. Perry Willett wrote: >My apologies about the time

Perry, that wasn't your fault, it was mine. I must have done a faulty calculation on the time differential when I first proposed the time, and then didn't double-check it. Apologies to those who missed the call on account of my error: I'll get it right next time, I promise. As there were some people who meant to be there but couldn't be, and since I said I'd send my notes to Syd anyway, here's what I recorded, from our conversation: John ------------------------------------------- JMU's unofficial minutes Council voted to accept the RFP (with thanks), pending revision of the generic plus two specific RFPs into one general-purpose rfp, with slots for the details of specific opportunities, as they come up. Geoff will talk to Martin about the specifics of MM2002 on June 28th, and in a week (July 1) will provide the RFP to Oxford, for the web site. Thanks to the training group for producing these drafts, and for promoting the idea of the RFP. Council agreed, on the question of certification, that it prefers the idea of reviewing software to the idea of producing a test suite or certifying software. Therefore, we will produce a call for reviews (Matthew and Syd), and collectively encourage knowledgeable individuals to submit software reviews to TEI-L, and the TEI webmaster will cull from those reviews to post on the web site. On P5, the Council voted to accept the work items and schedule proposed in Sebastian Rahtz's email to the council, dated Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:25:15 +0100. Sebastian will contact Peter Robinson (or Syd) to talk about fitting in a report on these items at MM2002--particularly Son of ODD, and the general outlines of revision for P5. Thanks to Sebastian for drafting a schedule and overview of tasks. On MSS description, Merrilee and Matthew expect to be able to provide a completed report and set of recommendations by MM2002, and the Council expects to vote on them, as integrated into P4 by Lou, at its January meeting. JU offered funding for travel, if it were necessary to complete this work. Thanks to Merrilee and Matthew, and also esp. to Consuelo Dutschke, for moving this process along. On character encoding: Lou estimates that this workgroup will keep to its schedule, producing a draft report by MM2002, and a final set of recommendations by the January Council meeting. Thanks to Christian Wittern for keeping the group on task and on time. On stand-off markup, little progress so far, but David's planning conference calls on a regular schedule beginning next week. JU will inquire as to the feasibility of this workgroup's keeping to the original schedule, of a workplan by August 1, a draft report by MM2002, and a final report by the January Council meeting. Future meetings: Council agreed to stick to one F2F meeting a year, with a conference call every few months, on a regular schedule. Next call should come in late sept/early october (Perry agrees to host again), to plan for presentations at the MM2002. Thereafter, probably April, June, October. JU will set a date for the next call, and begin arranging a location for the Jan. meeting (London?) From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jun 24 13:48:16 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:48:16 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020624074006.01fc5b60@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624134758.01d581b0@128.143.22.122> At 07:41 AM 6/24/2002 -0700, you wrote: >URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/ I've added it to my bookmarks... J. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jun 24 20:36:17 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:36:17 +0900 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020624074006.01fc5b60@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: Merrilee Proffitt writes: > All, > > While the interface is a bit clunky, the World Time Server is a very handy > tool for figuring out what is what. I always use this to double check what > the day will be when I'm planning to call Australia and New Zealand, for > example. Anyhow, onwards! > > URL: http://www.worldtimeserver.com/ Thank you, but even with this service I can't see how I could have figured it out -- it lists two different times for Indiana. So I hope Perry will post future announcements in GMT and I will be able to calculate the local time from there. All the best, Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jun 24 20:58:45 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:58:45 +0900 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624133326.01e77368@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > Council voted to accept the RFP (with thanks), pending revision of the > generic plus two specific RFPs into one general-purpose rfp, with slots for > the details of specific opportunities, as they come up. Geoff will talk to > Martin about the specifics of MM2002 on June 28th, and in a week (July 1) > will provide the RFP to Oxford, for the web site. Thanks to the training > group for producing these drafts, and for promoting the idea of the > RFP. I might not be completely awake yet, but I can't seem to figure out what a RFP is. (I did manage to expand MM2002 -- CW) On a third thought, is it similar to a CFP?

> Council agreed, on the question of certification, that it prefers the idea > of reviewing software to the idea of producing a test suite or certifying > software. Therefore, we will produce a call for reviews (Matthew and Syd), > and collectively encourage knowledgeable individuals to submit software > reviews to TEI-L, and the TEI webmaster will cull from those reviews to > post on the web site. Does this has to be an either or? With something as complex and diverse as the TEI set of DTDs, I can't really see how a review could provide much more than a general thumbs up or down. The needs I have differ substantially from the average TEI user (if such an animal exists -- I personally haven't yet encountered one), but I would be happy to provide the necessary files for a test suite that check for all kinds of CJK compatibility. While it might not be feasable in the short term, I hope that we can keep the production of a test suite as a future work item. > On P5, the Council voted to accept the work items and schedule proposed in > Sebastian Rahtz's email to the council, dated Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:25:15 > +0100. Sebastian will contact Peter Robinson (or Syd) to talk about > fitting in a report on these items at MM2002--particularly Son of ODD, and > the general outlines of revision for P5. Thanks to Sebastian for drafting > a schedule and overview of tasks. Sebastian brought up, among other things, interoperation with W3C standards. Has there been any further discussion about that? I would be especially interested to know what the Council things about the future interaction with the CSS group of recommendations. Do we propose to use them in any specific way (for example as the content of the "rend" attribute, announced somewhere in the header). I certainly feel the need for some more formal declaration of this. [and, to come back to the test cases issue, I think test cases really make only sense if we have some kind of overall processing model where we can say 'under these and these conditions, we expect to have this and that result' -- but currently the overall model is far from being clearly specified.] > > On MSS description, Merrilee and Matthew expect to be able to provide a > completed report and set of recommendations by MM2002, and the Council > expects to vote on them, as integrated into P4 by Lou, at its January > meeting. JU offered funding for travel, if it were necessary to complete > this work. Thanks to Merrilee and Matthew, and also esp. to Consuelo > Dutschke, for moving this process along. > > On character encoding: Lou estimates that this workgroup will keep to its > schedule, producing a draft report by MM2002, and a final set of > recommendations by the January Council meeting. Thanks to Christian > Wittern for keeping the group on task and on time. OOh? I have to admit that I am far less optimistic. While we might be able to produce some kind of report, I am not so sure about the final recommendations. There are a lot of issues far from being solved and some architectural decisions will depend on the development towards P5 as a whole. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Mon Jun 24 22:17:54 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 22:17:54 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020624133326.01e77368@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <15639.53970.573369.477654@mama.stg.brown.edu> > Perry, that wasn't your fault, it was mine. Too bad. Would have been more fun to blame the Indiana legislature.

> JMU's unofficial minutes I have not incorporated John's notes into my own (but I have incorp- orated Merrilee's), but I'm way too tired to do so now. I will be mostly unavailable tomorrow (Tue 25 Jul), so rather than make y'all wait 2 days, I'm sending what I have now. W/o John's notes, and not proofread. If you're anxious, read it now; if you'd prefer the improved version, should have that out on Thu 27 morning. --------- begin wwbvxiyhtrd[1] --------- TEI Council 2002-06-24 Conference Call Notes Syd Bauman

Intended for distribution to TEI Council members for corrections; corrected version to TEI Secretary for archiving.

No sourse; this electronic version is the source.

This document was created from the notes I took (in TEI Lite, btw) during the conversation, with some additions provided by the notes MP took and sent to me; with a few afterthoughts as well, usually relegated to <note> elements.

Names are copied-and-pasted from TEI website, so don't blame me for misspellings :-).

Initialis Used for People SB Syd Bauman LB Lou Burnard MD Matthew Driscoll DD David Durand TE Tomaž Erjavec DB David J. Birnbaum FJ Fotis Jannidis MM Martin Mueller MP Merrilee Proffitt SR Sebastian Rahtz PR Peter Robinson GR Geoffrey Rockwell LR Laurent Romary JU John Unsworth PW C. Perry Willett CW Christian Wittern

Call commenced at ~ 12:01-00 with GR, SB, FJ, PW, MP, LB, SR, JU, DB; MD joined a bit later; CW & TE never joined (nor did DD nor LR, but that was expected).

CW & TE, it turns out, were the victims of mistaken timezone.

committee reports
Training

GR explained the training committee had written 1 general and 2 specific (for Chicago 2002-10, and for GA 2003) RFPs for training courses. Suggested that within a few weeks all 3 would be edited & posted. SB said the programme committee for the Oct member's meeting would like that specific RFP out ASAP, preferably shortly after MMs return. GR thinks that's reasonable (he will be talking to MM on phone circa 06-28).

Thanks to the training committee for this work.

Lou recommends that the three RFPs be combined into one; general agreement, there should be one RFP, with an appendix that gives particulars for upcoming events that require specific proposals. GR Inform training committee of recommendation from Council to combine RFPs training committee Combine RFPs into one general with reference to the two specific events, perhaps as an appendix. In retrospect, I am not yet 100% convinced of the wisdom of this, and plan to send the council thoughts on the matter if I am still unconvinced after discussing w/ GR. -- Syd

GR notes that, esp. for proposals for training at the Oct member's meeting, they do not have to be full-blown proposals. SB points out that programme committee is expecting a 1-day training on Thu 2002-10-10.

Although questions about an RFP may (or should) be sent to the training committee, and questions about the venue, etc., may (or should) be sent to the local organizer, the Proposals themselves should be sent to JU, who will forward them to the Council for [dis]approval.

Motion that amended (as discussed) RFPs be accepted; passed.

LB SR send a response to the general RFP for their 15 Jul course

certification

Software certification discussion: we're leaning towards encouraging reviews of software (cull form TEI-L?) (certify reviewers? certify reviews?) MD SB to proof if MD wants write a draft certification policy SR LB cull the list for reviews to put on website LB & SR — if you like, let me know when you're ready to roll, and I'll send you an archive of the list. -- SB So we are shifting from certification to reviews.

P5
core tags and schema

Discussion of SR's proposal notes for conference call on 24th 2002-06-24 00:25+01-- SB thinks timescale aggresive, but SR & JU think it's reasonable (better to have too aggresive a deadline than none at all).

SB agrees strongly that TSD become an additional tagset, and that P5 be written in (possibly extended) TSD.

SR suggests Son of Odd report for members meeting 2002-10; SB suggests [dis]approval by Council in 2003-01; SR recommends including discussions of manuscript, char sets, standoff to that 2003-01 council meeting; MP reports manuscript should be ready.

Within the discussion there was concensus that it's important to change from DTD notation to some other notation inside <elemDecl>s (whether a pre-existing schema or our own is still an open question), and to allow multiple schema output from odds (i.e., to give TEI users choice in which schema language they use to validate their TEI documents).

Motion to accept SR's timetable as a framework approved.

SR talk to PR or SB about getting a timeslot to report on Son of Odd at 2002-10 member's meeting in Chicago, perhaps as part of editor's report. SB reports that he thinks the preliminary plan already has 20 mins for editors and a separate 20 mins for SR.

character encoding WG update

LB reports on char sets WG progress -- lots of discussion via e-mail, mostly centered on how much of the world's problems Unicode solves. Face-to-face WG meeting planned for 2002-07-23/24 in Tübingen (in conjunction with ALLC/ACH 2002). Both SB & plan to be present. WG is working on detailed proposals for a replacement to WSD mechanism which LB (& SB) expect will be discussed at WG meeting in Tübingen. CW doing good job keeping it going w/o domination by a particular person or constituency.

Council agreed that requirement for 1.5 days of meeting in order to obtain TEI reimbursement be waved, if needed, for this WG meeting. It was suggested that council need not vote, that chair could just do this unilaterally. JU Notify CW of relaxed restriction of 1.5 days for character sets WG meeting in Tübingen 2002-07. Since the council had agreed, I didn't take up valuable phone time saying this, but I think it is important that no single individual have the power to unilaterally make exceptions to or grant exemptions from promulgated rules or procedures like those in ED W 54. I think that such decisions need to be reserved for the council or board, or for a pre-defined group of officers (chair and both editors; chair, executive director, one editor; chair, executive director, one host representive — idunno)

stand-off markup, xlink, xpointer WG

SB reported on WG progress by briefly reading some sections of DD's mail to group 2002-06-19T16:31-04, startup: … it's past time for us to start up. … trying to get John Garofolo of NIST to join the group; if he does not, I will entertain suggestions of corpus linguists who might join the group. … an email list, supplemented by a regular conference call … initial suggestion that the call be on alternate Wednesdays, starting on 2002-06-26, at 13:00-00. … attached the preliminary charge … Preliminary agenda: introductions proceedures: … time limit: … reactions to charge: …

Council wanted assurance that an editor would be available for each call; SB & LB do not think this will be a problem.

Someone voiced concern as to whether or not council should be worried about lack of progress — [preliminary or draft? -- SB] report is due [2002-08-01 or 2002-10-11? -- SB]. SB said no need to worry yet, but should recheck after [2 or 3] of the planned conference calls (and then become concerned if little or no progress). SB or LB (whichever one makes conference call) keep council posted on WG progress

medieval MSS description

While MP may not be at member's meeting (snif! What's wrong with a TEI meeting as a honeymoon? Well, congratulations in any case), she is still hopeful that she and MD can get together this summer to hammer out differences in manuscript description stuff.

next meeting, assignments, future business

Future meetings: We like conference calls; SB suggests one roughly every 3 months. JU schedule future council conference calls Perry is willing to continue hosting them. (And subsequently agreed to post notices in UTC, preferably in an unambiguous format).

SR points out we need to have firm deadlines before 2003-01 face-to-face, as it's expensive.

--------- end wwbvxiyhtrd[1] --------- Notes ----- [1] wwbvxiyhtrd = what would be valid XML if you had the right DTD. If you actually want it, I'd be happy to send it (as either TEI extension files or as a pizza-page flattened DTD) along. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jun 25 07:34:08 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 12:34:08 +0100 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020625113407.GJ10745@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > Does this has to be an either or? With something as complex and > diverse as the TEI set of DTDs, I can't really see how a review could > provide much more than a general thumbs up or down. it can give an impression of coverage. ie "I was able to add a new menu for my project in about 1 hour and 50 lines of Visual Basic" is surely interesting? or "they rely on unchanged CSS for display so you can do TEI figures"? > The needs I have > differ substantially from the average TEI user (if such an animal really? are you _sure_ you dont fit some sort of pattern? > happy to provide the necessary files for a test suite that check for > all kinds of CJK compatibility. While it might not be feasable in the > short term, I hope that we can keep the production of a test suite as > a future work item. yes, we need test suites for other reasons than reviewing commercial software ... > Sebastian brought up, among other things, interoperation with W3C > standards. Has there been any further discussion about that? if only... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Tue Jun 25 08:54:10 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 07:54:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20020625113407.GJ10745@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: As I mentioned during the conference call, we've been testing various XML search engines. When we first looked at Tamino, we found to our surprise that it couldn't even handle TEILite, and the salesperson had never heard of the TEI. Tamino is a product of Software AG, which calls itself "The XML Company." We told them about TEI and our needs for full-text, which was all news to them. The current version of Tamino can handle TEI, and Harvard, Virginia and Emory are starting to use it for full-text. We've found that many of these XML search engines are designed with databases in mind, not full-text. I think it would be worthwhile just knowing that various software can or cannot handle TEI dtds. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > Does this has to be an either or? With something as complex and > > diverse as the TEI set of DTDs, I can't really see how a review could > > provide much more than a general thumbs up or down. > > it can give an impression of coverage. ie "I was able > to add a new menu for my project in about 1 hour and 50 lines > of Visual Basic" is surely interesting? or "they rely on > unchanged CSS for display so you can do TEI figures"? > > > The needs I have > > differ substantially from the average TEI user (if such an animal > really? are you _sure_ you dont fit some sort of pattern? > > > happy to provide the necessary files for a test suite that check for > > all kinds of CJK compatibility. While it might not be feasable in the > > short term, I hope that we can keep the production of a test suite as > > a future work item. > > yes, we need test suites for other reasons than reviewing commercial > software ... > > > Sebastian brought up, among other things, interoperation with W3C > > standards. Has there been any further discussion about that? > if only... > > -- > Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jun 25 09:00:17 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:00:17 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020625085147.01d17798@128.143.22.122> At 09:58 AM 6/25/2002 +0900, you wrote: >I might not be completely awake yet, but I can't seem to figure out >what a RFP is. (I did manage to expand MM2002 -- CW) On a third >thought, is it similar to a CFP? Yes--a request for proposals. > > Council agreed, on the question of certification, that it prefers the idea > > of reviewing software to the idea of producing a test suite or certifying > > software. Therefore, we will produce a call for reviews (Matthew and > Syd), > > and collectively encourage knowledgeable individuals to submit software > > reviews to TEI-L, and the TEI webmaster will cull from those reviews to > > post on the web site. > >Does this has to be an either or? With something as complex and >diverse as the TEI set of DTDs, I can't really see how a review could >provide much more than a general thumbs up or down. The needs I have >differ substantially from the average TEI user (if such an animal >exists -- I personally haven't yet encountered one), but I would be >happy to provide the necessary files for a test suite that check for >all kinds of CJK compatibility. While it might not be feasable in the >short term, I hope that we can keep the production of a test suite as >a future work item. If you're interested in working toward a test suite, you could probably persuade the Council that this is a worthy goal--the short-term sense of the discussion yesterday was that it would be a pretty difficult task to produce this, though, given the many forms the DTD can legitimately take, and certain kinds of vagueness (you refer to one below) in the way TEI specifies some things. Your offer of files to test for CJK compatibility does suggest, though, that we might *ask* whether people out there in the user community have already developed similar test files for features of importance to them.... >Sebastian brought up, among other things, interoperation with W3C >standards. Has there been any further discussion about that? During this phone call, only in a general way. >I would >be especially interested to know what the Council things about the >future interaction with the CSS group of recommendations. Do we >propose to use them in any specific way (for example as the content of >the "rend" attribute, announced somewhere in the header). I certainly >feel the need for some more formal declaration of this. [and, to come >back to the test cases issue, I think test cases really make only >sense if we have some kind of overall processing model where we can >say 'under these and these conditions, we expect to have this and that >result' -- but currently the overall model is far from being clearly >specified.] Interaction with CSS didn't come up, but we can of course take it up here on the list. > > On character encoding: Lou estimates that this workgroup will keep to its > > schedule, producing a draft report by MM2002, and a final set of > > recommendations by the January Council meeting. Thanks to Christian > > Wittern for keeping the group on task and on time. > >OOh? I have to admit that I am far less optimistic. While we might be >able to produce some kind of report, I am not so sure about the final >recommendations. There are a lot of issues far from being solved and >some architectural decisions will depend on the development towards P5 >as a whole. Could you imagine making recommendations within the scope of P4 in January, with a separate set of recommendations for P5? John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jun 25 09:59:21 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 09:59:21 -0400 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020625095840.01cb1778@128.143.22.122> Further to Perry's, about Tamino: it doesn't actually handle DTDs, period. It can handle TEI in XML, schematized. J. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Tue Jun 25 22:29:05 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:29:05 +0900 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020625085147.01d17798@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes:

>> > On character encoding: Lou estimates that this workgroup will keep to its >> > schedule, producing a draft report by MM2002, and a final set of >> > recommendations by the January Council meeting. Thanks to Christian >> > Wittern for keeping the group on task and on time. >> >>OOh? I have to admit that I am far less optimistic. While we might be >>able to produce some kind of report, I am not so sure about the final >>recommendations. There are a lot of issues far from being solved and >>some architectural decisions will depend on the development towards P5 >>as a whole. > > Could you imagine making recommendations within the scope of P4 in January, > with a separate set of recommendations for P5? If the council asks me to do so, I will try to follow up. Currently, most of our work is mentally geared towards P5; we have not continued to deal with P4. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Jun 26 04:17:26 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:17:26 +0100 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020626081725.GC24133@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > > If the council asks me to do so, I will try to follow up. Currently, > most of our work is mentally geared towards P5; we have not > continued to deal with P4. the assumption behind my proposed timetable for P5 was that we would issue one or more P4.1 supplements in early 2003, one of which would be the new character encoding stuff. I think the members really want to read something about this before the end of 2003, which is the soonest P5 might see the light of day. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jun 26 05:10:46 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:10:46 +0200 Subject: Med. Man. desc. workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020624055754.02080668@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <3D19A136.4220.482D4F@localhost> After reading the documents collected on the given url I have the understanding, that the scope of the proposed tags is to provide a means to describe some of the physical aspects of texts and some semantic aspects. I think there is still the need for a set of tags to describe the physical layout of text on the page. It should be possible to create a diplomatic transcription of a source with TEI - better even, to create a TEI encoded texts which can also be the input for an xslt stylesheet to produce a diplomatic transcription, lets say in xsl:fo. In other words: chapter 18 of P4 still ends with a list of things to do: " These guidelines particularly do not address the encoding of physical description of textual witnesses: the materials of the carrier, the medium of the inscribing implement, the layout of the inscription upon the material, the organisation of the carrier materials themselves (as quiring, collation, etc.), authorial instructions or scribal markup, etc." The TEI Work Group on Medieval Manuscript has started to deal with some of them and imho there is a need to deal also with "the layout of the inscription upon the material". As far as I could see on the TEI website no workgroup is handling this at the moment. If this is correct I want to propose to establish such a workgroup. Fotis

__________________________________________ PD Dr. Fotis Jannidis Deutsche Philologie - LMU Muenchen http://www.jannidis.de From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Jun 26 11:06:42 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:06:42 -0700 Subject: Med. Man. desc. workgroup In-Reply-To: <3D19A136.4220.482D4F@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020626080405.01eaa908@notes.rlg.org> Fotis, If I'm understanding you correctly, you are right. There is a "bucket" to generally describe the layout of the folios, but not to tie particular transcription from a given folio side to the layout for same. It seems that this would be an extension of transcription issues. Merrilee At 11:10 AM 6/26/2002 +0200, Fotis Jannidis wrote: >After reading the documents collected on the given url I have the >understanding, that the scope of the proposed tags is to provide a >means to describe some of the physical aspects of texts and some >semantic aspects. >I think there is still the need for a set of tags to describe the >physical layout of text on the page. It should be possible to create >a diplomatic transcription of a source with TEI - better even, to >create a TEI encoded texts which can also be the input for an xslt >stylesheet to produce a diplomatic transcription, lets say in xsl:fo. > >In other words: chapter 18 of P4 still ends with a list of things to >do: >" These guidelines particularly do not address the encoding of >physical description of textual witnesses: the materials of the >carrier, the medium of the inscribing implement, the layout of the >inscription upon the material, the organisation of the carrier >materials themselves (as quiring, collation, etc.), authorial >instructions or scribal markup, etc." > >The TEI Work Group on Medieval Manuscript has started to deal with >some of them and imho there is a need to deal also with "the layout >of the inscription upon the material". >As far as I could see on the TEI website no workgroup is handling >this at the moment. If this is correct I want to propose to establish >such a workgroup. > >Fotis > > > >__________________________________________ >PD Dr. Fotis Jannidis >Deutsche Philologie - LMU Muenchen >http://www.jannidis.de From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Wed Jun 26 13:00:28 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:00:28 +0200 Subject: Med. Man. desc. workgroup In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020626080405.01eaa908@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <3D1A0F4C.12984.E3374F@localhost> Merrilee, you understood me right: I am talking about how particular lines of texts are positioned on the page. It does look like an extension of transcription issues to me too. Probably some additional attributes which allow to define the extension of a rectangular, its orientation and the script would be a good starting point. In Germany there is a trend in high prestige editions and in experimental ones (Kafka, H?lderlin, Goethe etc) to offer a facsimile of the original manuscript page and a diplomatic transcription which tries to render the text in a legible format but also reproduces the layout of the page. Some of these editions are going digital now and they are looking for formats. As I am also involved in one of these projects I am thinking about how to extend TEI to cover this aspects. Fotis Date sent: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:06:42 -0700 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu From: Merrilee Proffitt Subject: Re: Med. Man. desc. workgroup Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > Fotis, > > If I'm understanding you correctly, you are right. There is a > "bucket" to generally describe the layout of the folios, but not to > tie particular transcription from a given folio side to the layout for > same. It seems that this would be an extension of transcription > issues. > > Merrilee > > At 11:10 AM 6/26/2002 +0200, Fotis Jannidis wrote: > >After reading the documents collected on the given url I have the > >understanding, that the scope of the proposed tags is to provide a > >means to describe some of the physical aspects of texts and some > >semantic aspects. I think there is still the need for a set of tags > >to describe the physical layout of text on the page. It should be > >possible to create a diplomatic transcription of a source with TEI - > >better even, to create a TEI encoded texts which can also be the > >input for an xslt stylesheet to produce a diplomatic transcription, > >lets say in xsl:fo. > > > >In other words: chapter 18 of P4 still ends with a list of things to > >do: " These guidelines particularly do not address the encoding of > >physical description of textual witnesses: the materials of the > >carrier, the medium of the inscribing implement, the layout of the > >inscription upon the material, the organisation of the carrier > >materials themselves (as quiring, collation, etc.), authorial > >instructions or scribal markup, etc." > > > >The TEI Work Group on Medieval Manuscript has started to deal with > >some of them and imho there is a need to deal also with "the layout > >of the inscription upon the material". As far as I could see on the > >TEI website no workgroup is handling this at the moment. If this is > >correct I want to propose to establish such a workgroup. > > > >Fotis > > > > > > > >__________________________________________ > >PD Dr. Fotis Jannidis > >Deutsche Philologie - LMU Muenchen > >http://www.jannidis.de > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Jun 26 20:33:43 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:33:43 +0900 Subject: conference call (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20020626081725.GC24133@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: >> >> If the council asks me to do so, I will try to follow up. Currently, >> most of our work is mentally geared towards P5; we have not >> continued to deal with P4. > > the assumption behind my proposed timetable for P5 was that > we would issue one or more P4.1 supplements in early 2003, > one of which would be the new character encoding stuff. I think > the members really want to read something about this before > the end of 2003, which is the soonest P5 might see the light > of day. Well, we have substantially revised Chapter 4 for P4. While this might not be optimal, it is IMHO improved over P3. The problem we, as the Charset WG have with further amending and revising P4 is that P4 caters to both SGML and XML communities, which means we can not assume Unicode to be the common reference. This makes it extremely difficult to present the material in a way that is useful for novice text encoders. P5 on the other hand does not promise SGML compatibility last I heard, so we are on firmer ground here. On our agenda for the meeting and the coming months is now basically Chapter 25, the WSD mechanism. User feedback suggest that this is also in dire need of revision. We are currently thinking of splitting the WSD in some submodules and integrate it in the main TEI DTD. This will require major changes in the whole concept, but hopefully make it easier to use, so that it actually gets used. Having said that, I haste to add that I am the last to refuse revising P4 and its charset chapter, if I am pointed to problematic passages. (Dont say the whole thing is problematic, I know that already, but that is largely a consequence of somebody, who can not dance trying to dancing on both SGML and XML parties). Anyway, I will add this to the agenda for the Tuebingen meeting. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jun 27 10:05:37 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:05:37 -0400 Subject: Med. Man. desc. workgroup In-Reply-To: <3D1A0F4C.12984.E3374F@localhost> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020627095055.01d26d98@128.143.22.122> At 07:00 PM 6/26/2002 +0200, you wrote: >Merrilee, > >you understood me right: I am talking about how particular lines of texts >are positioned on the page. It does look like an extension of >transcription issues to me too. >Probably some additional attributes which allow to define the extension of >a rectangular, its orientation and the script would be a good starting point.

For the record, according to http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/tcm01.html , the minutes of the January12, 2002 Council meeting (section 3.3), we agreed at that meeting that transcription of primary sources was on our list of matters needing to be addressed by workgroups in the run-up to P5. That reminds me to invite council members who are interested in any of the issues on the list in those minutes to consider submitting grant proposals to fund a TEI workgroup on that issue. Obviously, these proposals need to be coordinated with the rest of the Council, but externally funded workgroups are welcome, as is made clear at the beginning of http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html, which envisions "TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI), external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and given a TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything in between)." John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jun 27 17:19:21 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:19:21 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020627211921.GH950@spqr-dell> I am aiming to finish the next release of the TEI/XML CD this weekend, for distribution at Tubingen. any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L and TEI-TECH. if any of you want to burn a copy and play, I can put up an image somewhere tomorrow -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Thu Jun 27 17:28:23 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 17:28:23 -0400 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: <20020627211921.GH950@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Dear Sebastian, Can you put the instructions for tei/emacs on OS X? Yours, Geoffrey R. >I am aiming to finish the next release of the TEI/XML CD >this weekend, for distribution at Tubingen. > >any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, >a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L >and TEI-TECH. > >if any of you want to burn a copy and play, I can put up an >image somewhere tomorrow >-- >Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager >13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jun 27 18:17:20 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 23:17:20 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020627221720.GC9008@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Thu, Jun 27, 2002 at 05:28:23PM -0400, Geoffrey Rockwell wrote: > > Can you put the instructions for tei/emacs on OS X? if you point me at them..... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Jun 27 21:51:23 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 10:51:23 +0900 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: <20020627211921.GH950@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > I am aiming to finish the next release of the TEI/XML CD > this weekend, for distribution at Tubingen. > > any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, > a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L > and TEI-TECH. I'd like to see a XML version of P4, will that be possible? Christian

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Fri Jun 28 01:02:45 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:02:45 +0200 (METDST) Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: <20020627211921.GH950@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <200206280502.HAA08467@obelix.ijs.si> Sebastian Rahtz writes: > I am aiming to finish the next release of the TEI/XML CD > this weekend, for distribution at Tubingen. > > any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, > a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L > and TEI-TECH. I vaguely recall that at the CD distributed at the Pisa meeting there were also examples of resources encoded in TEI; if those are still available somewhere, they might be worth including. > > if any of you want to burn a copy and play, I can put up an > image somewhere tomorrow That would be great, thanks. Tomaz From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jun 28 08:31:18 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 13:31:18 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020628123118.GA20550@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 10:51:23AM +0900, Christian Wittern wrote: > > any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, > > a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L > > and TEI-TECH. > > I'd like to see a XML version of P4, will that be possible? if you defined more precisely what you mean. I can deliver it in TEI Lite, but that loses a lot of contextual information. how would you use it? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jun 28 16:16:57 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 21:16:57 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: <200206280502.HAA08467@obelix.ijs.si> Message-ID: <20020628201657.GA946@spqr-dell> > > any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, > > a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L > > and TEI-TECH. > > I vaguely recall that at the CD distributed at the Pisa meeting there > were also examples of resources encoded in TEI; if those are still > available somewhere, they might be worth including. yes, they are there -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sat Jun 29 01:48:10 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 14:48:10 +0900 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: <20020628123118.GA20550@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > On Fri, Jun 28, 2002 at 10:51:23AM +0900, Christian Wittern wrote: >> > any special requests? it has most of the TEI web site, >> > a slew of XML software, sample texts, and back issues of TEI-L >> > and TEI-TECH. >> >> I'd like to see a XML version of P4, will that be possible? > > if you defined more precisely what you mean. I can deliver > it in TEI Lite, but that loses a lot of contextual information. > > how would you use it? For one thing, I would like to convert it to use it in my palm. For that purpose, XML in TEI Lite form would be much easier to digest than the HTML you serve on the Website (which, BTW looks really nice now with the headings and side bar). I might even try to put it in *info* format... Also, I would use it as a demonstration of TEI itself, which I think would be more convincing than ODD. All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sat Jun 29 05:08:56 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 10:08:56 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020629090856.GA3157@spqr-dell> On Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 02:48:10PM +0900, Christian Wittern wrote: > > For one thing, I would like to convert it to use it in my palm. For > that purpose, XML in TEI Lite form would be much easier to digest than > the HTML you serve on the Website (which, BTW looks really nice now > with the headings and side bar). I might even try to put it in *info* > format... yes, but in those cases you'd want something more intelligent that the ODDs dumbed-down into TEI Lite. > Also, I would use it as a demonstration of TEI itself, which I think > would be more convincing than ODD. again, I don't think the dumb version is a good demonstration of TEI. The Guidelines resolve down to a rather simple document. we need an intermediate format between ODDs and Lite. anyway, I'll make a trial version in Lite and put it on the CD. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Jun 30 16:40:36 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 21:40:36 +0100 Subject: drop dead date for TEI CD for Tubingen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020630204036.GD6719@spqr-dell> On Sat, Jun 29, 2002 at 02:48:10PM +0900, Christian Wittern wrote: > > For one thing, I would like to convert it to use it in my palm. For > that purpose, XML in TEI Lite form would be much easier to digest than > the HTML you serve on the Website (which, BTW looks really nice now > with the headings and side bar). I might even try to put it in *info* > format... I have put a copy on the CD, with some trepidation. ie its extremely untested, but it is valid against the DTD. look out for it at Tubingen. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jul 3 13:41:42 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 13:41:42 -0400 Subject: RFP Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020703130655.01dd0bb0@128.143.22.122> Geoff has revised the RFP for training in accordance with our discussion in the June conference call, and I think it's ready to go. I have put it up for comment at http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/tei.training.rfp.23.xml. If you have comments, send them in the next day or two: this needs to be published by the end of the week. Thanks again to Geoff, Julia, Perry, and Sebastian for putting this together. John From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Thu Jul 4 18:05:18 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:05:18 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020703130655.01dd0bb0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: Shpould this not be given a proper number and placed on the website somewhere? I will do it this weekend if so.

On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Geoff has revised the RFP for training in accordance with our discussion in > the June conference call, and I think it's ready to go. I have put it up > for comment at > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/tei.training.rfp.23.xml. If you have > comments, send them in the next day or two: this needs to be published by > the end of the week. > > Thanks again to Geoff, Julia, Perry, and Sebastian for putting this together. > > John > > From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Thu Jul 4 18:31:56 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 18:31:56 -0400 Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, If the council approves it then yes, it should be given a number and put up. I would recommend that you not use my css style sheet - that it be made consistent in look with the rest of the site. Yours, Geoffrey R. >Shpould this not be given a proper number and placed on the website >somewhere? I will do it this weekend if so. > > >On Wed, 3 Jul 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > >> Geoff has revised the RFP for training in accordance with our discussion in >> the June conference call, and I think it's ready to go. I have put it up >> for comment at >> http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/tei.training.rfp.23.xml. If you have >> comments, send them in the next day or two: this needs to be published by >> the end of the week. > > > > Thanks again to Geoff, Julia, Perry, and Sebastian for putting >this together. > > > > John > > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jul 4 21:56:29 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 21:56:29 -0400 Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020704215414.01cc29e0@128.143.22.122> At 11:05 PM 7/4/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Shpould this not be given a proper number and placed on the website >somewhere? I will do it this weekend if so.

Yes indeed. That'll need to happen when it moves over to the TEI web site; I just put it up on my site for inspection by the Council. So far, no comments or suggestions. This should serve as last call for comments, since we need to circulate this by email as soon as possible. If no comments are forthcoming, it will go out, as is, on Friday--tomorrow--and Lou, you can add it to the TEI document set and the TEI web site over the weekend.... Thanks, John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Jul 5 20:22:10 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 01:22:10 +0100 Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020703130655.01dd0bb0@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: <20020706002210.GC28711@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> I have renumbered this document as tsp01 (TS for the "training subcommittee" and P for "Public proposal") xml and html versions of it will appear on the website at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/tsp01.{x,ht}ml shortly Lou On Wed, Jul 03, 2002 at 01:41:42PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > Geoff has revised the RFP for training in accordance with our discussion in > the June conference call, and I think it's ready to go. I have put it up > for comment at > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/tei.training.rfp.23.xml. If you have > comments, send them in the next day or two: this needs to be published by > the end of the week. > > Thanks again to Geoff, Julia, Perry, and Sebastian for putting this > together. > > John > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Jul 5 21:16:06 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:16:06 -0400 Subject: training RFP Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020705211516.01cc80a8@128.143.22.122> I've sent the following to Humanist and TEI-L; please send it to any other lists you think appropriate. J. ------------- Text Encoding Initiative Training: Request For Proposals Introduction The Text Encoding Initiative invites proposals for the development and delivery of training courses and materials to be recognized by the TEI. We invite interested parties to contact us or submit proposals in writing that will meet the training needs of the community. We are committed to working with one or more parties to help develop the proposals so that they can be certified by the Text Encoding Initiative. Venues and Specific Opportunities The TEI specifically invites proposals for the following venues in the immediate future: 1.A short intensive training course to be offered in conjunction with the October, 2002 members meeting of the TEI. More information on this specific RFP is available at TEI October 2002 Opportunity. 2.A short intensive training course to be offered in conjunction with the ACH/ALLC joint conference in Athens, Georgia in the summer of 2003. More information on this specific opportunity is available in the Appendix below ACH 2003 Opportunity. In addition, the TEI solicits proposals for general, reusable training materials; for repeatable training courses; and for courses or workshops to be offered in conjunction with conferences. What sorts of proposals will be considered? Generally the types of proposals we are looking for are of the following sorts. 1. Proposals for short intensive courses, typically 1-5 days, coordinated with a conference or other event. (See the specific events listed above for which we encourage proposals in the short term.) 2. Proposals for short courses or workshops of one to two weeks offered annually, to serve a specific audience or geographic region. 3. Proposals for self-study materials to be available online. 4. Proposals for distance education courses that could be offered repeatedly. 5. Proposals for text books or training manuals. This list is not exhaustive. We welcome any imaginative proposals that would help educate the community in appropriate ways. What should be in the proposal? While we invite interested parties to enter into a conversation with us, the following are some of the features of a complete proposals that need to be addressed before the TEI will endorse the proposal. 1. Audience. The proposal should make clear the audience targeted by the training. Is the training for novices, advanced users, users with specific needs? Is the training opportunity open to the community? How many participants can the course accommodate? 2. Timing and Location. How long will the training take and where will it take place? When will it take place? Will it be offered at regular intervals? Will it be offered at the same place repeatedly? Proposals should demonstrate that the location and time allocated are appropriate to the audience and content. 3. Content. How will the curriculum be developed? What exactly will be taught and in what order? How will the content meet the needs of the audience? What sorts of hands-on activities will enhance the content? 4. Financing. How will the development and delivery of the training be paid for? What will its cost to participants be? Will the targeted audience be able to afford the proposed training? What discount will TEI members get? (Please note that all proposals must include some provision for a TEI members' discount.) The TEI recognizes that quality training needs to be financed in a manner that will ensure its ongoing development and which will appropriately reward the sponsoring institution. The TEI is also willing to endorse and assist with fund-raising efforts in support of training courses, particularly those which might assist under-served populations (see below). 5. Outreach and Application Process. How will the training be advertised? How would people apply for the course and how would applicants be selected? 6. Evaluation. How will the training be evaluated and by whom? How will the evaluation process inform the ongoing development of the training? Is the proposing party interested in involving the TEI in the evaluation process? 7. Instructors. Who will do the training and what experience do they have? Proposals should include the trainers' credentials and relevant experience. 8. Facilities. What facilities are needed for the training? If specific facilities are envisioned, are they appropriate to the content and adequate for the audience sought? 9. Will the training cover some specific set of software tools? If so, please supply details. 10. Materials. What self-study, reference, or exercise materials will be given to participants? Will any software be provided? Why submit a proposal to the TEI? The TEI recognizes that quality training is regularly offered without the endorsement of the TEI. This Request For Proposals is not meant to discourage initiative--rather, we wish to encourage appropriate training by recognizing excellence in training and assisting those who wish to develop new opportunities. The following are some of the specific ways we can help you through the RFP process. 1. Members of the TEI Training Committee and others can assist in the development of quality training by reviewing proposals, sharing of expertise, and by providing contacts with other interested parties. We can and will help you. 2. Proposals that have been accepted by the TEI as of appropriate quality will be listed on the TEI site as certified training opportunities. Such training opportunities will appear in a redesigned TEI training area in a way that clearly distinguishes certified proposals. 3. Accepted proposals can publicly describe their training opportunities, where appropriate, as "Certified by the Text Encoding Initiative" or "Developed in conjunction with the TEI." Use of the TEI logo will also be granted where appropriate. Alternative wording is also negotiable where appropriate and useful. 4. Appropriate proposals that are seeking funding can ask for a letter of support from the TEI or work with the TEI as a co-applicant. Please note that parties wishing to get support for funding proposals from the TEI need to give the TEI sufficient time to review the proposal and write letters of support. 5. The TEI will assist in promoting certified training through its membership. 6. The TEI can assist in the review of existing training in a confidential manner designed to help trainers upgrade their courses. Where should proposals be sent? Inquiries should be addressed to members of the TEI Training Committee (see below.) Proposals should be sent by e-mail to the TEI Training Committee, c/o Geoff Rockwell, at grockwel at mcmaster.ca. Proposals will be reviewed by the TEI Training Committee: it will make recommendations to the Chair of the TEI Consortium for a final determination, which will then be communicated in a timely manner. Appendix: Specific Opportunities The following is a list of specific opportunities for proposals with details. October 2002 TEI Meeting. The TEI seeks proposals for a one day advanced training course to be run on October 10th, the day before the TEI Members Meeting in Chicago. The training would be run in a PC lab at Northwestern University that can hold a maximum of 24 participants. Proposals should be coordinated with the local organizer, Martin Mueller, martinmueller at northwestern.edu. Proposals sent before August 15th, 2002 will be considered. 2003 ACH/ALLC. The TEI seeks proposals for a two day intensive training course to be offered in conjunction with the ACH/ALLC joint conference in Athens, Georgia in the summer of 2003. The conference organizers have set aside May 27-28, 2003 (and possibly the morning of the 29th) for this training opportunity. Proposals should be coordinated with the conference by Bill Kretzschmar, kretzsch at arches.uga.edu. In particular, proposals should take into account fees that will be charged by the University of Georgia for use of labs. Proposals sent before December 1st, 2002 will be considered. TEI Training Committee: Geoffrey Rockwell, grockwel at mcmaster.ca Julia Flanders, Julia_Flanders at brown.edu Sebastian Rahtz, sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Perry Willett, pwillett at indiana.edu From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Jul 5 21:18:11 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:18:11 -0400 Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: <20020706002210.GC28711@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020705211630.00a04728@128.143.22.122> At 01:22 AM 7/6/2002 +0100, you wrote: >I have renumbered this document as tsp01 (TS for the "training >subcommittee" and P for "Public proposal") xml and html versions >of it will appear on the website at >http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/tsp01.{x,ht}ml shortly

Lou, Thanks for doing this--can you maybe highlight this under "news flash" on the www.tei-c.org home page? Under P4, of course... J From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Jul 6 13:38:57 2002 From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 18:38:57 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020705211630.00a04728@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: Done. Also updated the TEI News pages to link to it.

On Fri, 5 Jul 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > At 01:22 AM 7/6/2002 +0100, you wrote: > >I have renumbered this document as tsp01 (TS for the "training > >subcommittee" and P for "Public proposal") xml and html versions > >of it will appear on the website at > >http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/tsp01.{x,ht}ml shortly > > > Lou, > > Thanks for doing this--can you maybe highlight this under "news flash" on > the www.tei-c.org home page? Under P4, of course... > > J > > From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Mon Jul 8 11:38:05 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:38:05 -0400 Subject: RFP In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020705211630.00a04728@128.143.22.122> Message-ID: Lou and John, Thanks for putting up the RFP and sending out the announcements. We will keep the Council posted as we get responses. Yours, Geoffrey R. From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Fri Jul 12 22:17:37 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 11:17:37 +0900 Subject: TEI Guidelines for palm devices Message-ID: Dear Council members, Being a great fan of palm size PDA computing devices and reading on these (and preparing for a longish trip), I have created a version of the Guidelines that can be read on Palm or PocketPC devices using the free reader program "MobiPocket Reader". The format is based on the open ebook definition, but similar to Microsofts Reader program, it needs to be compiled to be accessible by the reader program on the handheld device. The compiler, which is called "MobiPocket Publisher", is free for personal use, but the files created with it can not be redistributed. (All these programs can be downloaded from www.mobipocket.com) For that reason, I have created a webpage that links to the source set of oeb-files and gives an explanation on how to compile them. I would like to announce them on TEI-L, but before I do so, I would like to hear the opinion of the council, on two questions: -- Does the council endorse this kind of republication of the Guidelines? For everybody? For members only? -- Would this be better placed on the TEI website? (I have no objections of putting it there) Currently, the page is at http://www.kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~wittern/p4x-oeb.html All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri Jul 12 22:55:34 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:55:34 -0400 Subject: TEI Guidelines for palm devices In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15663.38566.210677.672113@mama.stg.brown.edu> > ... I have created a version of the Guidelines that can be read on > Palm or PocketPC devices ... Excellent!

> -- Does the council endorse this kind of republication of the > Guidelines? For everybody? For members only? This is not a council decision, but a board decision, and they have already decided -- for everybody. From my notes from the board meet- ing in Progue: * Compiled forms (DTD, HTML; others like .lit and other schemas if we do them) will be freely distributed. May be re-distributed or re-published, although those doing so are encouraged to mirror our copy; at the very least to check for most recent version before distributing. * Reproduction of more than one chapter but less than the whole, or making any alterations requires explicit permission from TEI-C. * We encourage any and all dynamic derivatives to mirror the source. We'll even promote them in that case. Note that the above items refer to *unaltered* derivatives of P4. Translations, altered versions, and extracts > 1 chapter are a different story. Thus if you make the whole of P4 available you already have the Board's blessing. The TEI-C would distinctly prefer it if you could arrange for the website to create the OEB files dynamically (from either the .p4x or the .html derivative, I presume), as that way when corrections are made to P4 those getting your derived versino get the updates automatically. If that's not feasible, though, at least check for updates and re-create the OEB version frequently. (We -- well, actually Lou gets the credit -- have already made several minor changes since the big blue books came out.)

> -- Would this be better placed on the TEI website? (I have no > objections of putting it there) Whether it be *on* the TEI website or *pointed to* by the TEI website makes little difference to me. But one or the other. From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Mon Jul 15 08:34:12 2002 From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:34:12 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Copyright of TEI Guidelines (was Re: TEI Guidelines for palm devices) In-Reply-To: <15663.38566.210677.672113@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <200207151234.OAA21245@obelix.ijs.si> Wouldn't it be a good idea to make these rules public? I am giving a course on encoding at the ESSLLI summer school; each course can have a reader that is distributed to students, and it seemed I could do far worse than include A Gentle Introduction and TEIU5 in it. But hunting all over the TEI web site I could not find one word on whether such copying is allowed or even encouraged, or forbidden. So, I'd suggest a paragraph summarising what is said below to be added to http://www.tei-c.org/Guidelines2/ Or maybe a pointer to a page giving the full story? Best, Tomaz

Syd Bauman writes: > > -- Does the council endorse this kind of republication of the > > Guidelines? For everybody? For members only? > > This is not a council decision, but a board decision, and they have > already decided -- for everybody. From my notes from the board meet- > ing in Progue: > > * Compiled forms (DTD, HTML; others like .lit and other schemas if > we do them) will be freely distributed. May be re-distributed or > re-published, although those doing so are encouraged to mirror > our copy; at the very least to check for most recent version > before distributing. > > * Reproduction of more than one chapter but less than the whole, or > making any alterations requires explicit permission from TEI-C. > > * We encourage any and all dynamic derivatives to mirror the > source. We'll even promote them in that case. > > Note that the above items refer to *unaltered* derivatives of P4. > Translations, altered versions, and extracts > 1 chapter are a > different story. > > Thus if you make the whole of P4 available you already have the > Board's blessing. The TEI-C would distinctly prefer it if you could > arrange for the website to create the OEB files dynamically (from > either the .p4x or the .html derivative, I presume), as that way when > corrections are made to P4 those getting your derived versino get the > updates automatically. If that's not feasible, though, at least check > for updates and re-create the OEB version frequently. (We -- well, > actually Lou gets the credit -- have already made several minor > changes since the big blue books came out.) > > > > -- Would this be better placed on the TEI website? (I have no > > objections of putting it there) > > Whether it be *on* the TEI website or *pointed to* by the TEI website > makes little difference to me. But one or the other. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Aug 19 11:36:44 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:36:44 -0400 Subject: new member Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020819113437.01e060a0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Please welcome Alois Pichler to the TEI-Board and TEI-Council email lists; Alois will be taking over as executive director of the TEI when Tone Merete goes on maternity leave in a month or so. Alois, posts from you to these lists (tei-board at lists.village.virginia.edu and tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) will be accepted and automatically distributed if they come from the address alois.pichler at hit.uib.no -- if you need to be able to use alternate or variant addresses, let me know. John From Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no Tue Aug 20 06:18:11 2002 From: Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:18:11 +0200 Subject: new member In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020819113437.01e060a0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020820121300.039f3008@pop3.uib.no> Thankyou for your Welcome, John. Best regards, Alois At 11:36 AM 8/19/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Please welcome Alois Pichler to the TEI-Board and TEI-Council email lists; >Alois will be taking over as executive director of the TEI when Tone >Merete goes on maternity leave in a month or so. Alois, posts from you to >these lists (tei-board at lists.village.virginia.edu and >tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) will be accepted and automatically >distributed if they come from the address alois.pichler at hit.uib.no -- if >you need to be able to use alternate or variant addresses, let me know. > >John >

*************************************************** VISIT OUR WEB PAGES AT http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Wittgenstein Archives European Research Infrastructure http://www.hit.uib.no/wab/eu-ari-wab/ Alois Pichler Wittgenstein Archives at the University of Bergen Allegaten 27 N-5007 Bergen, Norway alois.pichler at hit.uib.no http://www.hit.uib.no/hit/alois.htm Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Aug 20 10:28:00 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:28:00 -0400 Subject: Do not forget to pre-register for the members meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15714.20976.97487.65744@mama.stg.brown.edu> > Please do not forget to do your hotel bookings for the upcoming > members meeting. I plan to book my rooms soon. But at $149 plus 14.9% room tax for $171 a night, the Claridge is convenient, but steep. Is anyone else interested in trying to save TEI some money either by sharing a room or finding a less expensive hotel? From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Aug 21 14:26:28 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:26:28 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> The TEI Council needs to vote to accept (or reject) the recommendation of its training subcommittee, below. Since this concerns training at the upcoming members' meeting in October, and space will need to be confirmed if training is to take place, please consider the recommendation, and the proposals it refers to, and vote up or down on the matter by the end of the week. Thanks,

John NB: I have taken the attachments that Geoff sent, and converted them to html: they can be found at: http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/flanders.TEI.proposal.htm and http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/isogen.TEI.Proposal.htm (access controlled: tei / c0ns0rtium ) >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:34:25 -0400 >To: Lou Burnard , > Peter Robinson >From: Geoffrey Rockwell >Subject: Training > > >Dear all, > >Regarding the training TEI Meeting here is our recommendation: > >1. We recommend that Julia Flanders (who recused herself from this >decision) be authorized to go ahead with the proposed training. See the >attached proposal. > >2. We received a general proposal from Isogen. We recommend that they not >run a session at Chicago, but that the training committee work with them >to adapt their proposal to our needs. In a separate e-mail the contact >person proposed a telephone discussion to identify our needs. Geoffrey >Rockwell is going to pursue this. The application is attached for your >information. > >3. Geoffrey Rockwell had preliminary talks with Lou Burnard and Sebastian >Rahtz about a train the trainers session to run concurrently with the >Julia Flanders proposed training. We believe this is a good idea and will >work with Lou and Sebastian to see if it is feasible. We therefore >recommend that this opportunity be given permission in principle given the >experience and reputation of both. Should this prove viable we will >forward a summary of the opportunity. > >John Unsworth - I believe these recommendations need to go to the Council >for approval. Do you want me to send them? > >Yours, > >Geoffrey Rockwell >Perry Willet > > From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Aug 22 03:00:25 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:00:25 +0900 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > The TEI Council needs to vote to accept (or reject) the recommendation of [..] >>1. We recommend that Julia Flanders (who recused herself from this >>decision) be authorized to go ahead with the proposed training. See the >>attached proposal. >> >>2. We received a general proposal from Isogen. We recommend that they not >>run a session at Chicago, but that the training committee work with them >>to adapt their proposal to our needs. In a separate e-mail the contact >>person proposed a telephone discussion to identify our needs. Geoffrey >>Rockwell is going to pursue this. The application is attached for your >>information. >> >>3. Geoffrey Rockwell had preliminary talks with Lou Burnard and Sebastian >>Rahtz about a train the trainers session to run concurrently with the >>Julia Flanders proposed training. We believe this is a good idea and will >>work with Lou and Sebastian to see if it is feasible. We therefore >>recommend that this opportunity be given permission in principle given the >>experience and reputation of both. Should this prove viable we will >>forward a summary of the opportunity.

I vote in favor of all these points. Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Aug 22 11:37:16 2002 From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:37:16 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3D65214C.17768.69069EB@localhost> > >1. We recommend that Julia Flanders (who recused herself from this > >decision) be authorized to go ahead with the proposed training. See > >the attached proposal. +1 > >2. We received a general proposal from Isogen. We recommend that they > >not run a session at Chicago, but that the training committee work > >with them to adapt their proposal to our needs. In a separate e-mail > >the contact person proposed a telephone discussion to identify our > >needs. Geoffrey Rockwell is going to pursue this. The application is > >attached for your information. +1 (Is there really a market for them? And: Imo TEI is text markup under a philological perspective and at the moment I cannot see how they can do the philological part.) > >3. Geoffrey Rockwell had preliminary talks with Lou Burnard and > >Sebastian Rahtz about a train the trainers session to run > >concurrently with the Julia Flanders proposed training. We believe > >this is a good idea and will work with Lou and Sebastian to see if it > >is feasible. We therefore recommend that this opportunity be given > >permission in principle given the experience and reputation of both. > >Should this prove viable we will forward a summary of the > >opportunity. +1 Fotis Jannidis From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Aug 23 07:03:26 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 13:03:26 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3D66329E.1728.4FAC6@localhost> I vote in favour of the recommendations of the training sub-committee. M. J. Driscoll From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Fri Aug 23 08:23:49 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 05:23:49 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020823052332.01983668@notes.rlg.org> I vote in favor of the recommendations. Merrilee At 02:26 PM 8/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >The TEI Council needs to vote to accept (or reject) the recommendation of >its training subcommittee, below. Since this concerns training at the >upcoming members' meeting in October, and space will need to be confirmed >if training is to take place, please consider the recommendation, and the >proposals it refers to, and vote up or down on the matter by the end of >the week. > >Thanks, > > >John > >NB: I have taken the attachments that Geoff sent, and converted them to >html: they can be found at: > >http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/flanders.TEI.proposal.htm > >and > >http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/isogen.TEI.Proposal.htm > >(access controlled: tei / c0ns0rtium ) > >>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:34:25 -0400 >>To: Lou Burnard , >> Peter Robinson >>From: Geoffrey Rockwell >>Subject: Training >> >> >>Dear all, >> >>Regarding the training TEI Meeting here is our recommendation: >> >>1. We recommend that Julia Flanders (who recused herself from this >>decision) be authorized to go ahead with the proposed training. See the >>attached proposal. >> >>2. We received a general proposal from Isogen. We recommend that they not >>run a session at Chicago, but that the training committee work with them >>to adapt their proposal to our needs. In a separate e-mail the contact >>person proposed a telephone discussion to identify our needs. Geoffrey >>Rockwell is going to pursue this. The application is attached for your >>information. >> >>3. Geoffrey Rockwell had preliminary talks with Lou Burnard and Sebastian >>Rahtz about a train the trainers session to run concurrently with the >>Julia Flanders proposed training. We believe this is a good idea and will >>work with Lou and Sebastian to see if it is feasible. We therefore >>recommend that this opportunity be given permission in principle given >>the experience and reputation of both. Should this prove viable we will >>forward a summary of the opportunity. >> >>John Unsworth - I believe these recommendations need to go to the Council >>for approval. Do you want me to send them? >> >>Yours, >> >>Geoffrey Rockwell >>Perry Willet >> From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Sun Aug 25 10:09:32 2002 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 16:09:32 +0200 Subject: Fwd: Re: circulate the members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020821142131.01e2ec08@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3D68E51D.4FA42854@loria.fr> Dear all, I am just catching up this on my return from the ISO TC37 meetings in Vienna (more to come about this soon in relation to the TEI...). I vote yes. Regards, Laurent John Unsworth a *crit : > The TEI Council needs to vote to accept (or reject) the recommendation of > its training subcommittee, below. Since this concerns training at the > upcoming members' meeting in October, and space will need to be confirmed > if training is to take place, please consider the recommendation, and the > proposals it refers to, and vote up or down on the matter by the end of the > week. > > Thanks, > > John > > NB: I have taken the attachments that Geoff sent, and converted them to > html: they can be found at: > > http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/flanders.TEI.proposal.htm > > and > > http://www.tei-c.org/Members/training.2002/isogen.TEI.Proposal.htm > > (access controlled: tei / c0ns0rtium ) > > >Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:34:25 -0400 > >To: Lou Burnard , > > Peter Robinson > >From: Geoffrey Rockwell > >Subject: Training > > > > > >Dear all, > > > >Regarding the training TEI Meeting here is our recommendation: > > > >1. We recommend that Julia Flanders (who recused herself from this > >decision) be authorized to go ahead with the proposed training. See the > >attached proposal. > > > >2. We received a general proposal from Isogen. We recommend that they not > >run a session at Chicago, but that the training committee work with them > >to adapt their proposal to our needs. In a separate e-mail the contact > >person proposed a telephone discussion to identify our needs. Geoffrey > >Rockwell is going to pursue this. The application is attached for your > >information. > > > >3. Geoffrey Rockwell had preliminary talks with Lou Burnard and Sebastian > >Rahtz about a train the trainers session to run concurrently with the > >Julia Flanders proposed training. We believe this is a good idea and will > >work with Lou and Sebastian to see if it is feasible. We therefore > >recommend that this opportunity be given permission in principle given the > >experience and reputation of both. Should this prove viable we will > >forward a summary of the opportunity. > > > >John Unsworth - I believe these recommendations need to go to the Council > >for approval. Do you want me to send them? > > > >Yours, > > > >Geoffrey Rockwell > >Perry Willet > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Laurent.Romary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 273 bytes Desc: Carte pour Laurent Romary Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20020825/9632f7c7/attachment.vcf From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Aug 26 08:27:42 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 08:27:42 -0400 Subject: training recommendations Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826081845.01d561a8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Last week, the training subcommittee recommended that: 1. Julia Flanders be authorized to provide training at the annual members' meeting 2. the training committee work with Isogen to adapt their proposal to our needs. 3. the training committee work with Lou Burnard and Sebastian Rahtz to see if they could arrange a "train the trainers" session, to run concurrently with Julia Flanders' training sessions in Chicago. All the votes received from the Council during the voting period were in the affirmative, on all points, so the recommendations are accepted. Julia (or Syd, on her behalf) should confirm with Martin Mueller that space will be available, and confirm the location, and the number of seats. That information, along with terms of enrollment and a description of the training opportunity should then go to Lou (for the Web site) and Tone Merete (for circulation by email to members). Members should be given preferential registration, perhaps during an early registration period. Peter Robinson should also be provided with a copy of the training announcement, for the meeting program. Thanks very much to the training subcommittee for pulling this together, and thanks in advance to Martin Mueller for working to accommodate the event. John Unsworth From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Aug 26 12:55:30 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 17:55:30 +0100 Subject: training recommendations In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020826081845.01d561a8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <20020826165527.GA7006@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 08:27:42AM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > Last week, the training subcommittee recommended that: > > 1. Julia Flanders be authorized to provide training at the annual members' > meeting Fine by me. > > 2. the training committee work with Isogen to adapt their proposal to our > needs. Certainly needs some adaptation, so also fine with me. > > 3. the training committee work with Lou Burnard and Sebastian Rahtz to see > if they could arrange a "train the trainers" session, to run concurrently > with Julia Flanders' training sessions in Chicago. Impossible for me to participate, if it's concurrent with Julia's session, tho Sebastian might be able to. I'll ask him when I see him (in a couple of days). However, for the record, a "train the trainers" session (a) wasn't quite what I meant in my conversation with Geoff and (b) would be pretty nugatory if it excluded Julia and Syd! What i had in mind in my hasty discussion with Geoff, (and it was very hasty so no blame is attached to the misunderstanding) was more a kind of review/comparison of notes/exploration of common ground amongst the different preople who currently do TEI training. I think such a meeting would be useful to the community as a whole. I didn't think of it as a "lick the trainers into shape/define the party line" session, which is what "train-the-trainers" sounds like to me. So my suggestion (unless Sebastian disagrees) would be to hold off on the third item above for the moment: maybe we could instead expect discussion of it in the session I've already volunteered Geoff for in the programme for the members meeting itself.

Lou

> > all the votes received from the Council during the voting period were in > the affirmative, on all points, so the recommendations are accepted. Julia > (or Syd, on her behalf) should confirm with Martin Mueller that space will > be available, and confirm the location, and the number of seats. That > information, along with terms of enrollment and a description of the > training opportunity should then go to Lou (for the Web site) and Tone > Merete (for circulation by email to members). Members should be given > preferential registration, perhaps during an early registration > period. Peter Robinson should also be provided with a copy of the training > announcement, for the meeting program. > > Thanks very much to the training subcommittee for pulling this together, > and thanks in advance to Martin Mueller for working to accommodate the > event. > > John Unsworth > From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Mon Aug 26 16:47:06 2002 From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:47:06 -0400 Subject: training recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020826165527.GA7006@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear all, Regarding Lou's clarification on the training he and I talked about, he is right and the idea is better expressed by his note. As he mentioned this will have to wait until Sebastian is back and can join the conversation. My apologies for choosing an inappropriate title, though I rather like the "lick the trainers into shape" idea :-) I therefore concur with Lou's suggestion that we hold off for the moment on this one. Yours, Geoffrey R. >On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 08:27:42AM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: >> Last week, the training subcommittee recommended that: >> >> 1. Julia Flanders be authorized to provide training at the annual members' >> meeting > >Fine by me. > >> >> 2. the training committee work with Isogen to adapt their proposal to our >> needs. > >Certainly needs some adaptation, so also fine with me. > >> >> 3. the training committee work with Lou Burnard and Sebastian Rahtz to see >> if they could arrange a "train the trainers" session, to run concurrently >> with Julia Flanders' training sessions in Chicago. > >Impossible for me to participate, if it's concurrent with Julia's >session, tho Sebastian might be able to. I'll ask him when I see him >(in a couple of days). > >However, for the record, a "train the trainers" session (a) wasn't >quite what I meant in my conversation with Geoff and (b) would be >pretty nugatory if it excluded Julia and Syd! > >What i had in mind in my hasty discussion with Geoff, (and it was very >hasty so no blame is attached to the misunderstanding) was more a >kind of review/comparison of notes/exploration of common ground >amongst the different preople who currently do TEI training. I think >such a meeting would be useful to the community as a whole. I didn't >think of it as a "lick the trainers into shape/define the party line" >session, which is what "train-the-trainers" sounds like to me. > >So my suggestion (unless Sebastian disagrees) would be to hold off on >the third item above for the moment: maybe we could instead expect >discussion of it in the session I've already volunteered Geoff for in >the programme for the members meeting itself. > >Lou From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Sat Sep 7 06:21:00 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 11:21:00 +0100 Subject: training recommendations In-Reply-To: <20020826165527.GA7006@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <20020907112100.3fa1eb0e.sebastian.rahtz@oucs.ox.ac.uk> My pragmatic proposals is that we schedule an evening discussion on Thursday evening for anyone who is around at which we can discuss principles of/ideas about TEI training. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 14 12:12:22 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:12:22 -0400 Subject: welcome, new members Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014112901.021b7ec0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Hello all, I'm pleased to welcome to the council new and returning members recently elected at the annual meeting in Chicago: Alejandro Bia (who was elected for a two-year term) David Birnbaum (who had served a one-year appointed term on the council, and now begins a two-year elected term) David Durand (likewise) Susan Schreibman (who was elected for a two-year term) I'd also like to thank Geoff Rockwell for his service: Geoff is rotating off a one-year appointment to the Council, but has been elected to the Board. Susan and Alejandro, you're newcomers to the list, so you need to know that you can send mail to the Council at tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu from any of these addresses: ss423 at umail.umd.edu susan_schreibman at umail.umd.edu abia at dlsi.ua.es If there's another version of your address from which posting should be allowed, please let me know. You can also find past proceedings of Council email discussion on the web, at: http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/ using the username/password that you use to get into the members area of the TEI web site, namely tei c0ns0rtium I am also pleased to report that the Board approved a face-to-face meeting for the Council: in spite of need to economize, the Board felt that such a meeting would be well worth it. In light of where the various work-groups are with their tasks, though, and in order to make sure that a face-to-face meeting could be one at which the Council considered the final recommendations of those groups, the Board recommended that we move that meeting back from January to May. The Board also cancelled its own face-to-face meeting in May, which had been scheduled to take place in Oxford, and offered the reservation of the facilities to the Council. Here's how Sebastian described those facilities: >Rewley House, Oxford. >This is in Wellington Square, Oxford, and is a pleasant >environment with decent bedrooms and meeting rooms. For computing >purposes, it's 5 minutes from here (Computing Services). The location is >central Oxford, 3 minutes walk from the bus station, which is an >hour by bus from Heathrow airport. I believe the dates reserved are May 16 and 17, 2003 (a Friday/Saturday). If these dates do not work out for us, I don't believe there's a penalty for cancelling the reservation at this point, but we should make that decision soon, so please let me know whether you can make a meeting on these dates. Also, between now and May, the Council will need to have one or two conference calls, to keep things moving along. I would suggest one in mid-November, one in late February or early March. Our members are scattered around the globe, and previous experience suggests that the only time of day that remotely practical for all members, in real time, will be at 9 am eastern time in the US, which puts the West Coast participant (Merrilee) on at 6 a.m., and the participant in Japan (Christian) on at 10 pm, and others at more civilized hours in between. I'm basing this on: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personalapplet.html?cities=43,105,136,137,736,287,418,538,325 You should each have a look, to confirm that I have your time zone represented there. NB: the US is (and will be, in November) on Daylight Savings Time, so that although the east coast is normally -5 UTC/GMT, we will be -4 UTC/GMT for this next call. Let me suggest two dates for the November call, which should last an hour and a half at most, and ask each of you to let me know whether you would be available at the necessary time for your location, on those dates: November 14 (Thursday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) November 21 (Friday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) Thanks, John Unsworth From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 14 12:32:22 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:32:22 -0400 Subject: the 80/20 rule Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014123053.021ad140@j.mail.virginia.edu> During our discussions at the Members' meeting, the 80/20 rule came up (80 percent of the problem is usually solved with 20 percent of the effort, the last 20 percent of the problem requires 80 percent of the resources). Syd asked where that rule originally came from. Here's the source: http://www.it-cortex.com/Pareto_law.htm John From ss423 at umail.umd.edu Mon Oct 14 14:03:17 2002 From: ss423 at umail.umd.edu (Susan Schreibman) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:03:17 -0400 Subject: welcome, new members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014112901.021b7ec0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <008801c273ab$f8dadcd0$1c130281@liblan.umd.edu> Dear John, thank you for your email. The dates you suggest for May are fine with me. Also either of the November dates are fine, but Thursday suits me slightly better. usan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Unsworth" To: "TEI Council" Cc: "Geoff Rockwell" Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 12:12 PM Subject: welcome, new members

> Hello all, > > I'm pleased to welcome to the council new and returning members recently > elected at the annual meeting in Chicago: > > Alejandro Bia (who was elected for a two-year term) > > David Birnbaum (who had served a one-year appointed term on the council, > and now begins a two-year elected term) > > David Durand (likewise) > > Susan Schreibman (who was elected for a two-year term) > > I'd also like to thank Geoff Rockwell for his service: Geoff is rotating > off a one-year appointment to the Council, but has been elected to the Board. > > Susan and Alejandro, you're newcomers to the list, so you need to know that > you can send mail to the Council at tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > from any of these addresses: > > ss423 at umail.umd.edu > susan_schreibman at umail.umd.edu > abia at dlsi.ua.es > > If there's another version of your address from which posting should be > allowed, please let me know. You can also find past proceedings of Council > email discussion on the web, at: > > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/ > > using the username/password that you use to get into the members area of > the TEI web site, namely > > tei > c0ns0rtium > > I am also pleased to report that the Board approved a face-to-face meeting > for the Council: in spite of need to economize, the Board felt that such a > meeting would be well worth it. In light of where the various work-groups > are with their tasks, though, and in order to make sure that a face-to-face > meeting could be one at which the Council considered the final > recommendations of those groups, the Board recommended that we move that > meeting back from January to May. The Board also cancelled its own > face-to-face meeting in May, which had been scheduled to take place in > Oxford, and offered the reservation of the facilities to the > Council. Here's how Sebastian described those facilities: > > >Rewley House, Oxford. > >This is in Wellington Square, Oxford, and is a pleasant > >environment with decent bedrooms and meeting rooms. For computing > >purposes, it's 5 minutes from here (Computing Services). The location is > >central Oxford, 3 minutes walk from the bus station, which is an > >hour by bus from Heathrow airport. > > I believe the dates reserved are May 16 and 17, 2003 (a > Friday/Saturday). If these dates do not work out for us, I don't believe > there's a penalty for cancelling the reservation at this point, but we > should make that decision soon, so please let me know whether you can make > a meeting on these dates. > > Also, between now and May, the Council will need to have one or two > conference calls, to keep things moving along. I would suggest one in > mid-November, one in late February or early March. Our members are > scattered around the globe, and previous experience suggests that the only > time of day that remotely practical for all members, in real time, will be > at 9 am eastern time in the US, which puts the West Coast participant > (Merrilee) on at 6 a.m., and the participant in Japan (Christian) on at 10 > pm, and others at more civilized hours in between. I'm basing this on: > > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personalapplet.html?cities=43,105,136, 137,736,287,418,538,325 > > You should each have a look, to confirm that I have your time zone > represented there. NB: the US is (and will be, in November) on Daylight > Savings Time, so that although the east coast is normally -5 UTC/GMT, we > will be -4 UTC/GMT for this next call. > > Let me suggest two dates for the November call, which should last an hour > and a half at most, and ask each of you to let me know whether you would be > available at the necessary time for your location, on those dates: > > November 14 (Thursday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > November 21 (Friday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > > Thanks, > > John Unsworth > > > > > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Oct 14 15:31:23 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:31:23 -0700 Subject: welcome, new members In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014112901.021b7ec0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021014121631.01aba0c0@notes.rlg.org> Conference call: either of the dates in November are fine for me. Meeting in May: dates are okay. I don't believe the US will still be on daylight time in November (usually ends the last Sunday in October), although this would be a delightful surprise! Merrilee At 12:12 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I'm pleased to welcome to the council new and returning members recently >elected at the annual meeting in Chicago: > >Alejandro Bia (who was elected for a two-year term) > >David Birnbaum (who had served a one-year appointed term on the council, >and now begins a two-year elected term) > >David Durand (likewise) > >Susan Schreibman (who was elected for a two-year term) > >I'd also like to thank Geoff Rockwell for his service: Geoff is rotating >off a one-year appointment to the Council, but has been elected to the Board. > >Susan and Alejandro, you're newcomers to the list, so you need to know >that you can send mail to the Council at >tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu from any of these addresses: > >ss423 at umail.umd.edu >susan_schreibman at umail.umd.edu >abia at dlsi.ua.es > >If there's another version of your address from which posting should be >allowed, please let me know. You can also find past proceedings of >Council email discussion on the web, at: > >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/ > >using the username/password that you use to get into the members area of >the TEI web site, namely > >tei >c0ns0rtium > >I am also pleased to report that the Board approved a face-to-face meeting >for the Council: in spite of need to economize, the Board felt that such a >meeting would be well worth it. In light of where the various work-groups >are with their tasks, though, and in order to make sure that a >face-to-face meeting could be one at which the Council considered the >final recommendations of those groups, the Board recommended that we move >that meeting back from January to May. The Board also cancelled its own >face-to-face meeting in May, which had been scheduled to take place in >Oxford, and offered the reservation of the facilities to the >Council. Here's how Sebastian described those facilities: > >>Rewley House, Oxford. >>This is in Wellington Square, Oxford, and is a pleasant >>environment with decent bedrooms and meeting rooms. For computing >>purposes, it's 5 minutes from here (Computing Services). The location is >>central Oxford, 3 minutes walk from the bus station, which is an >>hour by bus from Heathrow airport. > >I believe the dates reserved are May 16 and 17, 2003 (a >Friday/Saturday). If these dates do not work out for us, I don't believe >there's a penalty for cancelling the reservation at this point, but we >should make that decision soon, so please let me know whether you can make >a meeting on these dates. > >Also, between now and May, the Council will need to have one or two >conference calls, to keep things moving along. I would suggest one in >mid-November, one in late February or early March. Our members are >scattered around the globe, and previous experience suggests that the only >time of day that remotely practical for all members, in real time, will be >at 9 am eastern time in the US, which puts the West Coast participant >(Merrilee) on at 6 a.m., and the participant in Japan (Christian) on at 10 >pm, and others at more civilized hours in between. I'm basing this on: > >http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personalapplet.html?cities=43,105,136,137,736,287,418,538,325 > >You should each have a look, to confirm that I have your time zone >represented there. NB: the US is (and will be, in November) on Daylight >Savings Time, so that although the east coast is normally -5 UTC/GMT, we >will be -4 UTC/GMT for this next call. > >Let me suggest two dates for the November call, which should last an hour >and a half at most, and ask each of you to let me know whether you would >be available at the necessary time for your location, on those dates: > >November 14 (Thursday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) >November 21 (Friday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > >Thanks, > >John Unsworth > > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 14 16:45:52 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:45:52 -0400 Subject: TEI Council conference call / this business of time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014161719.021b4080@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 01:01 PM 10/14/2002 -0500, Perry wrote: >John, > >I'd be happy to host the conference call again. OK--thank you very much. >According to , >Daylight Savings Time ends on Oct. 27 in both the US and Europe. Dang. I thought I was on top of it this time. OK, if we are off daylight savings, then our US East Coasters (and Bloomington) will need to be on the phone at 8 am, the West Coaster at 5 a.m., Oxford and Nancy at 1 pm, Alicante, Bergen and Lublijana at 2 pm, Kyoto at 10 pm. I think that's right--if anyone thinks not, let me know. And here's a more complete TEI Council clock: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personalapplet.html?cities=43,105,136,137,736,287,418,538,325 and a useful meeting planner: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html John From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Oct 14 16:54:01 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:54:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council conference call / this business of time In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014161719.021b4080@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Not to keep picking on John, but according to my calendar, Nov. 21 is a Thursday. But I would be available any of those dates. Perry

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > Let me suggest two dates for the November call, which should last an > hour and a half at most, and ask each of you to let me know whether you > would be available at the necessary time for your location, on those > dates: > November 14 (Thursday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > November 21 (Friday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 14 18:00:04 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:00:04 -0400 Subject: TEI Council conference call / this business of time In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014175926.021e8ac0@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 03:54 PM 10/14/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Not to keep picking on John, but according to my calendar, >Nov. 21 is a Thursday. But I would be available any of those >dates. > > > November 14 (Thursday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) > > November 21 (Friday), 9 am EDT ( -4 UTC/GMT) I meant to suggest November 22nd, the Friday -- in case someone has a recurring Thursday commitment (poker night for Christian, for example). John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 14 18:08:55 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:08:55 -0400 Subject: new conference call date Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014180527.021c4500@j.mail.virginia.edu> Although most people so far have been able to do either date, one person cannot do any (either the first thursday, the mistaken second thursday, or the intended friday). Therefore, let me suggest a new date, Friday November 29th, same time (8 am Eastern Time). For those in the US, that is the day after Thanksgiving, but perhaps if it's only a phone call, for only an hour and a half, that would be OK. So, for now, let's forget about the earlier date, and respond (offline is fine) on the question of whether you could do the phone call at your equivalent of 9 AM Eastern Time, Friday, November 29th, 2002. John From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Oct 14 18:23:18 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:23:18 -0700 Subject: new conference call date In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014180527.021c4500@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021014152257.04fd1e90@notes.rlg.org> Yes; in fact I will be on the east coast, which would make it not so painful. Merrilee At 06:08 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Although most people so far have been able to do either date, one person >cannot do any (either the first thursday, the mistaken second thursday, or >the intended friday). Therefore, let me suggest a new date, Friday >November 29th, same time (8 am Eastern Time). For those in the US, that >is the day after Thanksgiving, but perhaps if it's only a phone call, for >only an hour and a half, that would be OK. > >So, for now, let's forget about the earlier date, and respond (offline is >fine) on the question of whether you could do the phone call at your >equivalent of 9 AM Eastern Time, Friday, November 29th, 2002. > >John From mjd at hum.ku.dk Tue Oct 15 03:14:16 2002 From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll) Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:14:16 +0200 Subject: TEI Council conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014112901.021b7ec0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3DABDC68.9324.1398A8@localhost> Either of the dates for the conference call would suit me, as does May the 16th and 17th for a face to face meeting. Matthew From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Oct 16 23:31:39 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:31:39 +0900 Subject: new conference call date In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014180527.021c4500@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Dear members, I would be available at Friday Nov 29. The timeanddate applet seems not to work on my machine, but I will try to figure it out. May I suggest that times for the phone calls are posted in GMT, rather than various US timezones, which are difficult to understand to outsiders and are prone to additional confusion due to daylight saving times. All the best, Christian John Unsworth writes: > Although most people so far have been able to do either date, one person > cannot do any (either the first thursday, the mistaken second thursday, or > the intended friday). Therefore, let me suggest a new date, Friday > November 29th, same time (8 am Eastern Time). For those in the US, that is > the day after Thanksgiving, but perhaps if it's only a phone call, for only > an hour and a half, that would be OK. > > So, for now, let's forget about the earlier date, and respond (offline is > fine) on the question of whether you could do the phone call at your > equivalent of 9 AM Eastern Time, Friday, November 29th, 2002. > > John -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no Thu Oct 17 05:23:02 2002 From: Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:23:02 +0200 Subject: new conference call date In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021014180527.021c4500@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021017111441.02b265f8@pop3.uib.no> Hello and "takk for sist" ("thanks for last time", as Matthew suggested), as one says in Norway, I am sorry that I won't be able to join you on Friday November 29th. On that day I am unfortunately already promised to a meeting at WAB about the European Research Infrastructure. I am confident, that the Council will have a good telephone conference! Apologies for reacting so late. Best wishes, Alois At 06:08 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Although most people so far have been able to do either date, one person >cannot do any (either the first thursday, the mistaken second thursday, or >the intended friday). Therefore, let me suggest a new date, Friday >November 29th, same time (8 am Eastern Time). For those in the US, that >is the day after Thanksgiving, but perhaps if it's only a phone call, for >only an hour and a half, that would be OK. > >So, for now, let's forget about the earlier date, and respond (offline is >fine) on the question of whether you could do the phone call at your >equivalent of 9 AM Eastern Time, Friday, November 29th, 2002. > >John >

*************************************************** Alois Pichler Director, Wittgenstein Archives http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Executive Director, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/ Wittgenstein Archives at the University of Bergen Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Text Encoding Initiative Consortium c/o Humanities Information Technologies Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Oct 20 23:20:04 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 23:20:04 -0400 Subject: again with the dates Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021020230045.01ec8af0@j.mail.virginia.edu> I'm sorry to say it, but the 29th of November is not going to work--at least three of the people who ought to be on that call can't be, at that time and day. I also would like to apologize for the confusion I introduced into earlier attempts to fix a date, through my errors of time-adjustment, etc.. Since we do this infrequently, I would like to try to get everyone on the call, if at all possible. Let's try this again, then: Time: Time of the conference call would be 1 pm UTC time, so, in London 1pm, in Lubljana, Valencia, Bergen, 2 pm, in Los Angeles 5 am, in Washington DC and Pittsburgh 8 am, in Kyoto 10 pm. I can never tell what time it is in Indiana, so I leave that up to Perry to figure out. Date: We didn't do so well with the end of the week, so let's try the beginning. Let me know which of these Monday and Tuesday dates in November you *cannot* do, at the time given above: Monday the 11th Tuesday the 12th Monday the 18th Tuesday the 20th Monday the 25th Tuesday the 26th Thanks, John From Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no Mon Oct 21 03:20:28 2002 From: Alois.Pichler at hit.uib.no (Alois Pichler) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:20:28 +0200 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021020230045.01ec8af0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021091640.01c3ed90@pop3.uib.no> Hello John, here my "cannots": >Monday the 25th >Tuesday the 26th

Best, Alois *************************************************** Alois Pichler Director, Wittgenstein Archives http://www.hit.uib.no/wab Executive Director, Text Encoding Initiative http://www.tei-c.org/ Wittgenstein Archives at the University of Bergen Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Text Encoding Initiative Consortium c/o Humanities Information Technologies Allegaten 27, N-5007 Bergen, Norway Tel: +47-55-589474 Fax: +47-55-589470 From alex.bia at ua.es Mon Oct 21 03:19:24 2002 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:19:24 +0200 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.20021021091924.1c172f36@aitana.cpd.ua.es> I cannot do it on: Monday the 11th Tuesday the 12th at the time stated. Regards, Alex.- At 11:20 p.m. 20/10/02 -0400, you wrote: >I'm sorry to say it, but the 29th of November is not going to work--at >least three of the people who ought to be on that call can't be, at that >time and day. I also would like to apologize for the confusion I >introduced into earlier attempts to fix a date, through my errors of >time-adjustment, etc.. Since we do this infrequently, I would like to try >to get everyone on the call, if at all possible. Let's try this again, then: > >Time: > >Time of the conference call would be 1 pm UTC time, so, in London 1pm, in >Lubljana, Valencia, Bergen, 2 pm, in Los Angeles 5 am, in Washington DC >and Pittsburgh 8 am, in Kyoto 10 pm. I can never tell what time it is in >Indiana, so I leave that up to Perry to figure out. > >Date: > >We didn't do so well with the end of the week, so let's try the >beginning. Let me know which of these Monday and Tuesday dates in November >you *cannot* do, at the time given above: > >Monday the 11th >Tuesday the 12th >Monday the 18th >Tuesday the 20th >Monday the 25th >Tuesday the 26th > >Thanks, > >John > > --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From alex.bia at ua.es Mon Oct 21 03:26:46 2002 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:26:46 +0200 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.20021021092646.2b477768@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Dear John, Just in case it helps: one hour later (2 pm GMT) on these dates (11th and 12th) would be fine for me. Alex.- >I cannot do it on: > > Monday the 11th > Tuesday the 12th > >at the time stated. > >Regards, >Alex.- > --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 06:44:48 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:44:48 +0100 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021020230045.01ec8af0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <20021021104447.GG23007@janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk> On Sun, Oct 20, 2002 at 11:20:04PM -0400, John Unsworth wrote: > We didn't do so well with the end of the week, so let's try the > beginning. Let me know which of these Monday and Tuesday dates in November > you *cannot* do, at the time given above: > > Monday the 11th OK > Tuesday the 12th OK > Monday the 18th Not OK if I go to an EU meeting scheduled that day > Tuesday the 20th Doesnt exist. If you mean the 19th, I can't do it. > Monday the 25th OK > Tuesday the 26th OK > L > From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Oct 21 08:43:28 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 21 Oct 2002 13:43:28 +0100 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021020230045.01ec8af0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1035204208.24639.75.camel@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> > Monday the 11th > Tuesday the 12th > Monday the 18th > Tuesday the 20th > Monday the 25th > Tuesday the 26th all ok for me so far -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Oct 21 09:01:22 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:01:22 -0400 Subject: Fwd: again with the dates Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021021085215.01d63480@j.mail.virginia.edu> I seem constitutionally unable to manage the calendar. Tomaz politely points out that > the Tuesday falls on the 19th... :) > >Best, >Tomaz > > > Monday the 11th > > Tuesday the 12th > > Monday the 18th > > Tuesday the 20th So, that should read, Tuesday the 19th. > > Monday the 25th > > Tuesday the 26th Yours in increasing chronophobia, John From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Oct 21 13:08:32 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:08:32 -0700 Subject: again with the dates In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021020230045.01ec8af0@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021021100631.0198e8d0@notes.rlg.org> All proposed dates for the conference call are fine with me. Merrilee From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Oct 22 11:50:35 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:50:35 -0400 Subject: Conference call date established Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021022114313.01d6caf8@j.mail.virginia.edu> It looks as though we have a time and date that will work for the conference call: Time: 1 pm UTC (adjust for your local time...) Date: Tuesday, November 26th. As far as I know, the only person who cannot participate at this time/date is Alois Pichler. Alois, you'll have to catch up by way of the minutes, I think. Others, please put this on your calendars at the appropriate time, and please send me agenda items. Perry, if you would set up the call and tell people how to call in, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your patience-- John From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Tue Oct 22 13:54:02 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:54:02 -0400 Subject: Conference call date established In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021022114313.01d6caf8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15797.37050.882244.599693@mama.stg.brown.edu> > Time: 1 pm UTC (adjust for your local time...) > > Date: Tuesday, November 26th.

> As far as I know, the only person who cannot participate at this > time/date is Alois Pichler. Alois, you'll have to catch up by way > of the minutes, I think. With no disrespect intended whatsoever, Alois isn't on the council, nor does the executive director sit in on council meetings. (At least it's not mentioned in the by-laws; TM was not in London, nor was she on the previous conference call.) From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Oct 22 14:33:24 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:33:24 -0400 Subject: Conference call date established In-Reply-To: <15797.37050.882244.599693@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021022143238.01ec9df8@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 01:54 PM 10/22/2002 -0400, you wrote: >With no disrespect intended whatsoever, Alois isn't on the council, >nor does the executive director sit in on council meetings. (At least >it's not mentioned in the by-laws; TM was not in London, nor was she >on the previous conference call.) True. Alois is on this list, though, as Tone Merete was, and I doubt there would be any objection to his joining the call, if he were able to do so. J From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Oct 23 18:15:51 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:15:51 -0400 Subject: agenda item for the november conference call Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021023181153.01ed68d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> One of the functions that the TEI Board has discussed as a possible activity of the Consortium, in past meetings, is the collection, dissemination, and preservation of DTDs and documentation of TEI-based projects (not the content, just the DTDs, encoding guides, maybe stylesheets or the like). We have even discussed the possibility of trying to persuade the NEH to require deposit of this sort of material with TEI, along with the funding to support that activity. On this topic, though all unbidden, Charles Faulhaber writes: >The DTD for medieval manuscript transcription is now finished and is >available, along with instructions on how to use it at: > >http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Scriptorium/transcription.html > >We would like to submit it formally for vetting by TEI in the hopes of >having it adopted as an official DTD. We're pretty happy with it. I just >wish that we had a good character set to go along with it. David Chesnutt has also raised a similar question, with respect to the MEP DTD. I'll ask David if he can direct the council to a web-presentation of his materials, and perhaps we could consider them both during our conference call, and make some recommendation to the Board about housing/adopting/endorsing them. John From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Oct 24 20:47:18 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:47:18 +0900 Subject: New agenda item for the november conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021023181153.01ed68d8@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: Dear list members, I would like to suggest another agenda item for the council in its capacity as the TEI core workgroup. In the reports of the workgroups at MM2 in Chicago, and also in the discussions of the migration WG immediately after that, it became clear (at least to me) that there are some architectural decisions that have to be made on the road to P5. It would make the work of these WG's much easier if some of these decisions could be made in a timely way. What I have in mind here are the following issues, but this is just from my own perspective, whereas the problem area is clearly much larger: - Can we expect entities to be available in P5? Background: The various XML schema languages have to my knowledge decided to abandon entities. What to we do? (My concern is here more with the TEI 'user space', as opposed to the use of entities internal to DTD processing, which probably would not be affected.) One of the many areas affected would be "Section 6.2 Treatment of Punctuation", which will need some revision anyway. - Should/could P5 limit the content of attribute values to tokens (and similar material) as opposed to the many attribute values in P4, which allow essentially the same content as in PCDATA. Background: Attribute values are different from PCDATA in that they can not contain other markup constructs. This makes it impossible, for example, to specify language, writing system, readings and the like for the content of attribute values. Additionally, there is some area of conflict between XML:lang and language specification in TEI, which could be cleared up as well. To make this possible, things like bar would have to be expressed as bar foo Since this would require a considerable change to the architecture of TEI and the view of its underlying text (which could not be considered to be 'simply a concetanation of all #PCDATA in a document', I would appreciate a statement from the council on this.

All the best, Christian Wittern

-- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Oct 26 18:05:37 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:05:37 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: MEP dtd and documentation Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026180341.01eed008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Here are some URLs for information on the MEP DTD, which I'd like to discuss during the next TEI Council phone call. John >X-Sender: chesnutt at mailbox.gwm.sc.edu >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 04:34:50 -0400 >To: John Unsworth >From: "David R. Chesnutt" >Subject: Re: MEP dtd and documentation > >Good morning John... > >Thanks for your note. Here are the relevant URLs you requested. > > http://adh.sc.edu/MepDTDs.html - the MEP dtds > > http://adh.sc.edu/MepGuide.html - the MEP guidelines > > http://adh.sc.edu/meptsdv1.html - the MEP tag library > >Although developed specifically for the historical editing community, the >DTDs are currently being used by similar literary projects like the Mark >Twain letters at UCB and the Thomas Carlyle letters at Duke. Needless to >say, I'm very pleased to see the work go beyond our small group of >historical editors. > >I should be able to clean out the TEI-C safety deposit box next week. To >whom should I send the materials? > >I trust the Chicago meeting went well, hopefully as well as my surgery >(only one spot of cancer) and prognosis (80% "cure" rate). > >Best always... David > > > > > >David, > > > >During the next conference call of the TEI Council, we'll be looking at the > >question of adopting DTDS, encoding guidelines, and the like, from > >TEI-based projects. I haven't forgotten that you would like that to happen > >for MEP. Can you send me a URL where the council could get at your > >materials in advance of that call (scheduled for November 26th). > > > >John > > >David R. Chesnutt >Papers of Henry Laurens/ > Model Editions Partnership >Department of History >University of South Carolina >Columbia, SC 29208 > >Telephone: 803-777-8350 >Fax: 803-254-4980 >Email: Chesnutt at gwm.sc.edu >http://adh.sc.edu From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sat Oct 26 19:34:09 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 27 Oct 2002 00:34:09 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: MEP dtd and documentation In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026180341.01eed008@pop3.norton.antivirus> Message-ID: <1035675250.7820.23.camel@spqr-dell> It is hard to see what is going on here, exactly, without a formal definition of what "conforming to the TEI" means. My view is that a DTD which is supposed to be derived from the TEI should supply the set of extensions and entity definitions which define the difference. In the wealth of material in MEP I do not see that, I do see an initial example of Abraham Lincoln April 10. 1862 Richard Yates William Butler David R. Chesnutt and C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 31 August 1998 20 October 1998 ... (document tracking number) Abraham Lincoln, Speeches and Writings 1859-1865 (New York: Library of America, 1989), p. 315. which it would take a very broad-minded person to claim was TEI-conformant :-} Still, with the imprimatur of Signor Sperberg-McQueen, who can argue? What is there to discuss, John? plainly we can store this stuff in the TEI archive (bearing in mind that the TEI does not *have* any form of secure archive), but what else? are we supposed to support it in some way? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Oct 26 19:11:55 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:11:55 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Re: MEP dtd and documentation In-Reply-To: <1035675250.7820.23.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026190257.01ebbef0@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 12:34 AM 10/27/2002 +0100, you wrote: >What is there to discuss, John? plainly we can store this stuff in the >TEI archive (bearing in mind that the TEI does not *have* any form of >secure archive), but what else? are we supposed to support it in some >way?

Well, at present we have no guidelines whatsoever on what we will do, under what conditions, for what sorts of tei-based, tei-derived, or tei-related products. I think we should have some guidelines. I don't think we should be offering to support them, other than by providing access to them and their documentation, and I don't think we ought to do more, on the archival front, than promise to keep them in the same place on the TEI web site for as long as that site exists, and if it ceases to exist, to make an effort to deposit all of its materials with a library or archive, in electronic form if possible, and in print if not. So, with respect to guidelines, you've already suggested some questions for discussion. Should guidelines for deposit provide "a formal definition of what 'conforming to the TEI' means" and should they require such conformance? Should they stipulate that "a DTD which is supposed to be derived from the TEI [must] supply the set of extensions and entity definitions which define the difference"? Etc.. J From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Oct 26 19:50:49 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:50:49 -0400 Subject: New agenda item for the november conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026194957.01ee8f68@pop3.norton.antivirus> At 09:47 AM 10/25/2002 +0900, you wrote: >Dear list members, > >I would like to suggest another agenda item for the council in its >capacity as the TEI core workgroup.

Thanks, Christian--and if other workgroup leaders would like the TEI Council to consider specific workgroup-related questions during the November conference call, please send them along. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Oct 27 13:39:34 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 27 Oct 2002 18:39:34 +0000 Subject: New agenda item for the november conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1035743975.17523.5.camel@spqr-dell> I think Christian is right on target in wanting to talk about this now. But the questions he asks are all caught up with decisions on "son of ODD", and the extent to which that may constrain us. I've go (relatively firm) views on Christian's questions, but I hesitate to think we can solve them in a phone call. I am half-inclined to think it needs half a dozen people to be locked in a room for a week. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Oct 27 20:32:50 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:32:50 +0900 Subject: Fwd: Re: MEP dtd and documentation In-Reply-To: <1035675250.7820.23.camel@spqr-dell> Message-ID: Sebastian Rahtz writes: > It is hard to see what is going on here, exactly, without a formal > definition of what "conforming to the TEI" means. My view is that > a DTD which is supposed to be derived from the TEI should supply > the set of extensions and entity definitions which define the > difference. In the wealth of material in MEP I do not see that, I do see > an initial example of This type of problem came also up during the discussions of the Migration WG, with respect to what to do with DTD's that do not confirm to the TEI extension mechanism. The conclusion was basically that there was no help at all that could be offered. So if this DTD archive is also supposed to serve as a 'best practice showroom' (and I am sure any struggling newcomer will like to see it as such), I think some minimum requirements for deposable DTD's should be enforced (no need for new rules, we could just quote from the Guidelines). All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Oct 28 04:11:52 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 28 Oct 2002 09:11:52 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Re: MEP dtd and documentation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1035796312.1102.8.camel@spqr-dell> On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 01:32, Christian Wittern wrote: > This type of problem came also up during the discussions of the > Migration WG, with respect to what to do with DTD's that do not > confirm to the TEI extension mechanism. The conclusion was basically > that there was no help at all that could be offered. in the Migration context, I think substantial extensions like that of MEP will be very hard even if they supply the extension files (which I suspect do exist). did you see any prospect of autoconversion of extension specifications? if, for instance, they inclusions or exclusions? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Oct 28 15:20:11 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:20:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Conference call date established In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021022114313.01d6caf8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Okay, I've set up the conference call for Nov 26 at 1pm UTC as John has requested. To figure out the time, there's a handy website at . They even list Indianapolis, so it must be pretty thorough. The call will work the same way as the last one. (It's called a "meet-me conference" in our telecomm parlance but it really isn't a phone dating service.) The phone number is (812) 856-3550, and you'll hear a friendly Midwestern gent ask you to enter the passcode, which is 0612# (pound sign). If you have problems getting into the conference call on the 26th, you can call me at (812) 856-5759, which is the number for my assistant in the cube next to mine. So, that info again: When: Tuesday, Nov. 26, 1pm UTC Phone: (812) 856-3550, Passcode 0612# Timezones: Help: (812) 856-5759 Let me know if any of this is unclear. Thanks, Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University Email: pwillett at indiana.edu Phone: (812) 855-9290

On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > It looks as though we have a time and date that will work for the > conference call: > > Time: 1 pm UTC (adjust for your local time...) > > Date: Tuesday, November 26th. On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > > Time of the conference call would be 1 pm UTC time, so, in London 1pm, > in Lubljana, Valencia, Bergen, 2 pm, in Los Angeles 5 am, in > Washington DC and Pittsburgh 8 am, in Kyoto 10 pm. I can never tell > what time it is in Indiana, so I leave that up to Perry to figure out. > From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Oct 28 19:35:04 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:35:04 -0800 Subject: New agenda item for the november conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021028163338.01a9e790@notes.rlg.org> At 09:47 AM 10/25/2002 +0900, Christian wrote: >In the reports of the workgroups at MM2 in Chicago, and also in the >discussions of the migration WG immediately after that ... Would be useful if someone would share what went on at the meeting in terms of discussion, for those poor souls like me who didn't make it. Many thanks! Merrilee From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Nov 17 23:39:34 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:39:34 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI MM 2003 In-Reply-To: <1036489488.2252.6.camel@janus> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021117233803.01d9a020@j.mail.virginia.edu> Can I suggest, for our 2003 Members' Meeting, the following dates: Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003 Any objections? John From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Nov 18 06:05:08 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard) Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:05:08 +0000 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI MM 2003 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021117233803.01d9a020@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1037617508.5141.2.camel@janus> Fine by me. But it rather depends on our friends in Nancy, doesnt it? L On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 04:39, John Unsworth wrote: > Can I suggest, for our 2003 Members' Meeting, the following dates: > > Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 > Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003 > > Any objections? > > John > > From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Mon Nov 18 07:51:22 2002 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 13:51:22 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI MM 2003 In-Reply-To: <1037617508.5141.2.camel@janus> Message-ID: <3DD8E249.60E599C2@loria.fr> I have forwarded the proposal to Jean-Marie Pierrel, the director of ATILF, to make sure there will not be any problem with the date. I should confirm in the coming hours. Best Laurent Lou Burnard a *crit : > Fine by me. But it rather depends on our friends in Nancy, doesnt it? > > L > > On Mon, 2002-11-18 at 04:39, John Unsworth wrote: > > Can I suggest, for our 2003 Members' Meeting, the following dates: > > > > Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 > > Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003 > > > > Any objections? > > > > John > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Laurent.Romary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 273 bytes Desc: Carte pour Laurent Romary Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20021118/c0590e98/attachment.vcf From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Mon Nov 18 11:14:17 2002 From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:14:17 +0100 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI MM 2003 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021117233803.01d9a020@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <3DD911D8.3D45F693@loria.fr> Do book those dates! They are fine for us. Cheers Laurent John Unsworth a *crit : > Can I suggest, for our 2003 Members' Meeting, the following dates: > > Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 > Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003 > > Any objections? > > John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Laurent.Romary.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 273 bytes Desc: Carte pour Laurent Romary Url : http://lists.village.Virginia.EDU/pipermail/tei-council/attachments/20021118/bd9ff5d5/attachment.vcf From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Nov 19 23:25:50 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:25:50 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI MM 2003 In-Reply-To: <3DD911D8.3D45F693@loria.fr> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021119231453.01edb6e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Hearing no objections, and with Laurent's approval, let's plan on these dates for the 2003 TEI members' meeting:

> > Friday, Nov. 7, 2003 > > Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003

John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Nov 24 15:08:27 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 15:08:27 -0500 Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124132909.01dc33e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> TEI Council Members and Editors: This is a reminder that the TEI Council will hold a conference call on Tuesday, November 26th, at 1 pm UTC. To adjust for your local time, see http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html. (Hints: 8 am eastern time in the US; 5 am in California; 10 pm in Japan). Please read through the following, in advance of the call. If you cannot take part, or are not ready to report as listed below, please let me know. If you want council members to look at additional or different materials for something listed below, just send a note to tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu. If you think there should be other items on this agenda, let me know as soon as possible. To Connect to the Call, dial: (812) 856-3550, Passcode 0612# For Help, dial: (812) 856-5759 Expected to participate: Syd Bauman, Alex Bia, David Birnbaum, Lou Burnard, Matthew Driscoll, David Durand, Tomaz Erjavec, Merrilee Proffitt, Sebastian Rahtz, Laurent Romary, Susan Schreibman, John Unsworth, Perry Willett, Christian Wittern. Agenda: 7 items, not more than 15 minutes apiece. ----------------------------------------------------- 1) Minutes of the last conference call, minute-taker for this one. (5 minutes) The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. A final version of these belongs at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/index.html but I don't find it there. Also, by the way, the list of TEI Council members at http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council needs to be brought up to date. ----------------------------------------------------- 2) Update from Chris Ruotolo on the SGML-XML Migration Working Group (15 minutes) Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw76.html Materials at: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/MI/ ----------------------------------------------------- 3) Update from Christian Wittern on Character Encoding Workgroup (15 minutes) Original charge: http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw72.html New Terms of reference: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/ce01.html and Questions from Christian Wittern re: P5 "In the reports of the workgroups at MM2 in Chicago, and also in the discussions of the migration WG immediately after that, it became clear (at least to me) that there are some architectural decisions that have to be made on the road to P5. It would make the work of these WG's much easier if some of these decisions could be made in a timely way. What I have in mind here are the following issues, but this is just from my own perspective, whereas the problem area is clearly much larger: - Can we expect entities to be available in P5? Background: The various XML schema languages have to my knowledge decided to abandon entities. What to we do? (My concern is here more with the TEI 'user space', as opposed to the use of entities internal to DTD processing, which probably would not be affected.) One of the many areas affected would be "Section 6.2 Treatment of Punctuation", which will need some revision anyway. - Should/could P5 limit the content of attribute values to tokens (and similar material) as opposed to the many attribute values in P4, which allow essentially the same content as in PCDATA. Background: Attribute values are different from PCDATA in that they can not contain other markup constructs. This makes it impossible, for example, to specify language, writing system, readings and the like for the content of attribute values. Additionally, there is some area of conflict between XML:lang and language specification in TEI, which could be cleared up as well. To make this possible, things like bar would have to be expressed as bar foo Since this would require a considerable change to the architecture of TEI and the view of its underlying text (which could not be considered to be 'simply a concetanation of all #PCDATA in a document', I would appreciate a statement from the council on this." ----------------------------------------------------- 4) Update from David Durand on the Stand-Off Markup Working Group (15 minutes) (Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw74.html) ----------------------------------------------------- 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. (15 minutes) This proposal arises out of discussion at the members' meeting in Chicago, and subsequent discussion on a majordomo list archived at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-lib/. Members of this discussion are John Unsworth, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, Ken Price, Natasha Smith, Nancy Kushigian, Chris Powell, Merrilee Proffitt, and Daniel Pitti. "TEI in Libraries Working Group Objectives: To create a suite of TEI-approved materials and tools to support the use of TEI in a digital library setting, including: 1. A set of guidelines for the use of TEI in libraries, building on the existing document "TEI Text Encoding in Libraries Guidelines" from 1999, and enhancing it by considering library-specific encoding needs and approaches, by updating it to include P4 and XML dtds, and by adding examples and enhanced explanations, recommendations for headers, linking page images to text, use by vendors, etc.; 2. A set of specific dtds for various encoding levels; 3. XSL stylesheets; 4. a working system for search and display, using lightweight, open source components; 5. a set of training documents, with training workshops for librarians. To do this, the working group will 1. Investigate grant opportunities, particularly with the IMLS for drafting the guidelines, and NEH for training and development activities. (We'll have to restrict the working group to U.S. participants for these grants.) 2. Survey current use of the TEI among digital libraries. We will coordinate with the TEI SGML/XML Conversion Working Group on this activity. 3. Survey development of metadata standards such as METS, MODS, Dublin Core, MARCXML, and others, to give recommendations for their use in conjunction with TEI-encoded files. Administrative Chair of the workgroup is Perry Willett (Indiana University) Deadlines * By December 6, working group membership is set. * By January 10, a draft grant proposal for IMLS is finished to be reviewed by working group members. * By January 20, the final draft is readied for submission to IMLS By March 1, decision to pursue grant funding from the NEH for training component (with a series of short deadlines, ending July 1 with submission of application). Work via email and perhaps meet as opportunities arise in conjunction with conferences." ----------------------------------------------------- 6) TEI Adoption of Project Materials (15 minutes) For example, from Charles Faulhaber (a) "the DTD for medieval manuscript transcription is now finished and is available, along with instructions on how to use it at: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Scriptorium/transcription.html We would like to submit it formally for vetting by TEI in the hopes of having it adopted as an official DTD. We're pretty happy with it. I just wish that we had a good character set to go along with it." (b) and David Chesnutt's MEP materials: http://adh.sc.edu/MepDTDs.html - the MEP dtds http://adh.sc.edu/MepGuide.html - the MEP guidelines http://adh.sc.edu/meptsdv1.html - the MEP tag library "Although developed specifically for the historical editing community, the DTDs are currently being used by similar literary projects like the Mark Twain letters at UCB and the Thomas Carlyle letters at Duke. Needless to say, I'm very pleased to see the work go beyond our small group of historical editors." There is discussion of this agenda item on the TEI-Council list, October 23rd and following: you may review the discussion at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/ (username: tei password: c0ns0rtium). ----------------------------------------------------- 7) Next Meetings: (5 minutes) Conference call: Some time in late February, early March? Please be prepared to set a date. Face-to-Face: May 16 and 17, 2003 (a Friday/Saturday) Rewley House, Oxford. Members' Meeting: Friday/Saturday, November 7/8, 2003, Nancy, France. From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Nov 24 18:10:45 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:10:45 -0500 Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124132909.01dc33e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15841.23669.240598.691616@mama.stg.brown.edu> > Expected to participate: > Syd Bauman, Alex Bia, David Birnbaum, Lou Burnard, Matthew Driscoll, David > Durand, Tomaz Erjavec, Merrilee Proffitt, Sebastian Rahtz, Laurent Romary, > Susan Schreibman, John Unsworth, Perry Willett, Christian Wittern. Is this list the current Council membership plus the editors?

> The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. Eeek! I think that's my fault. Looks like I never folded JU's notes into my own. For his notes see the message to which the one above is a reply, i.e. http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0250.html.

Without suggesting an answer (for I haven't one), I'd like to clarify Chirstian's question a bit, at least from my point of view. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) > - Should/could P5 limit the content of attribute values to tokens > (and similar material) as opposed to the many attribute values in > P4, which allow essentially the same content as in PCDATA. We're actually only talking about CDATA attribute values which are intended to have as their value captured source document content or similar data, e.g., the orig= attribute of . We are not worried about those attributes which are used to describe the encoding. E.g., the type= of

is not a problem. I say this because I, for one, do not think it at all an imposition to insist that values of such attributes be limited to Unicode characters. I'm betting that pretty much all attributes that are described with "sample values include" or whatever in the Guidelines are non-problems. Here is a hastily created list of the attributes I think we are discussing. reg= of the various name elements and (of , too?) orig= of expan= of abbr= of sic= of corr= of key= of , , lemma= of baseform= of (should be baseForm=) sort= of the various personal name parts (%a.personPart;) and perhaps expand=, norm=, split=, value=, and orig= of the various dictionary elements reg= of the various date and time elements? > Background: Attribute values are different from PCDATA in that > they can not contain other markup constructs. This makes it > impossible, for example, to specify language, writing system, > readings and the like for the content of attribute values. "Impossible" seems like a bit too strong to me. "Difficult" or even "obnoxiously difficult" might be better. I say this because I think we could develop a mechanism for this. E.g., if we were to say that such information (language, writing system, glyph variation, etc.) are always specified by indirection using the global IDREF attribute ws= to point to an element with the detailed information, we would encode such stuff in normal PCDATA with something like However, in order to indicate that the value of orig= was in the same language, writing system, etc., we would have to add an attribute to to indicate the ws= of the orgig=, e.g. Of course, the real problems occur when the characters inside the orig= attribute are not all from the same ws= set. (This is actually a very reasonable case to consider: one of the characters of reg= is not a Unicode character.) Nonetheless, a stand-off markup solution *could* be developed: would indicate that characters 5 through 7 of the orig= value are in the writing system, language, etc., specified by AG7c. I'm not suggesting that the above is necessarily a *good* solution, only that it is *a* solution, and one that we might want to think about a little before jumping on the "use no content-containing attributes" bandwagon.

> Additionally, there is some area of conflict between XML:lang and > language specification in TEI, which could be cleared up as well. I think it would be a good idea, Christian, if you were prepared to briefly explain the relationship on the call.

> 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. Is this a proposed working group or a fait accompli? Does it require a budget? From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Nov 24 18:26:19 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:26:19 -0500 Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: <15841.23669.240598.691616@mama.stg.brown.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124182351.01da88b8@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 06:10 PM 11/24/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > Expected to participate: > > Syd Bauman, Alex Bia, David Birnbaum, Lou Burnard, Matthew Driscoll, > David > > Durand, Tomaz Erjavec, Merrilee Proffitt, Sebastian Rahtz, Laurent > Romary, > > Susan Schreibman, John Unsworth, Perry Willett, Christian Wittern. > >Is this list the current Council membership plus the editors? That's correct.

> > The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at > > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. > >Eeek! I think that's my fault. Looks like I never folded JU's notes >into my own. For his notes see the message to which the one above is >a reply, i.e. >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0250.html. Still, some combination of the two should be on the web site. Doesn't have to happen before the conference call--we can go back and look at the two URLs above--but members should have ready access to approved minutes of these calls, just as they do for meetings. > > 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. > >Is this a proposed working group or a fait accompli? Does it require a >budget? This is a proposed working group. It would either proceed on a volunteer basis or with outside funding. The group is currently working on an IMLS proposal, with sights set on an NEH opportunity next. John From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Nov 24 18:47:31 2002 From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:47:31 -0500 Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124182351.01da88b8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <15841.25875.953395.40927@mama.stg.brown.edu> > Still, some combination of the two should be on the web site. ... Most definitely agreed; I was just admitting that I most likely will not get to correcting this omission until after the call. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Nov 24 19:27:22 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:27:22 -0000 Subject: FW: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Apologies -- I hadnt got my return email address set up right when I posted this the first time] -----Original Message----- From: Burnard Towers [mailto:lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk] Sent: 24 November 2002 23:56 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: RE: conference call reminder, agenda and materials

> > > > The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference > call are at > > > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. > > > >Eeek! I think that's my fault. Looks like I never folded JU's notes > >into my own. For his notes see the message to which the one above is > >a reply, i.e. > >http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0250.html. > > Still, some combination of the two should be on the web site. > Doesn't have > to happen before the conference call--we can go back and look at the two > URLs above--but members should have ready access to approved minutes of > these calls, just as they do for meetings. Well, they have access now. Though I have to point out, again, that these minutes have not been formally approved by anyone, yet. > > > 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. > > > >Is this a proposed working group or a fait accompli? Does it require a > >budget? > > This is a proposed working group. It would either proceed on a volunteer > basis or with outside funding. The group is currently working on an IMLS > proposal, with sights set on an NEH opportunity next. > Having now read through the email archive about this proposal, I am torn between delight at the proposed work plan and gloom at the fact that it doesn't seem to want to involve any non-N-American participation at all. I suppose we just dont have any digital library tei expertise on this side of the atlantic. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Nov 24 19:28:28 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 00:28:28 -0000 Subject: FW: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: [Likewise this one...] -----Original Message----- From: Burnard Towers [mailto:lou.burnard at oucs.ox.ac.uk] Sent: 24 November 2002 23:46 To: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu Subject: RE: conference call reminder, agenda and materials

Thanks John for this reminder. Can I propose the following additional items for the agenda: (a) Editors' proposal for handling nontrivial changes to the Guidelines. See http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html (shouldnt take long!) (b) Review of workplan and timetable for TEI P5. See http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/p5.html (could take ages if we discuss the technical aspects) (c) Status of Master/manuscript description work. MJD to report. (no idea!) Lou Further comments are intertwingled below: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of John > Unsworth > Sent: 24 November 2002 20:08 > To: TEI Council > Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials > > > > 1) Minutes of the last conference call, minute-taker for this > one. (5 minutes) > I am happy to volunteer as note taker for this one. > The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. A > final version of these belongs at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/index.html > but I don't find it there. As I see Syd has just fessed up, I won't labour the fact that he did ask the Council for comments on his provisional draft before it was posted on the website, which not arriving, is why it never got out of the listserv archive! Anyway, I have now posted the draft as circulated on 24 June, taking the opportunity to set up a new Council web page (http://www.tei-c.org/Council/)

> > Also, by the way, the list of TEI Council members at > > http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council > > needs to be brought up to date. > Yes indeed. Sorry, but I haven't done that yet. Incidentally, did the Board formally agree to Sebastian's continued nomination as its representative on the Council, along with Johbn? I hope it did! > ----------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. (15 > minutes) As Syd points out, I don't recall the Board agreeing that this group should be a formal TEI workgroup. My believe is that the discussion proposed setting up a "special interest group" independent of the current TEI organizational structure. > > This proposal arises out of discussion at the members' meeting in > Chicago, > and subsequent discussion on a majordomo list archived at > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-lib/. > Members of this > discussion are John Unsworth, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, Ken Price, > Natasha Smith, Nancy Kushigian, Chris Powell, Merrilee Proffitt, > and Daniel > Pitti. > This is great, but I suppose I am duty bound to point out that TEI work groups are normally expected to include an ex officio TEI editor. > ----------------------------------------------------- > > 7) Next Meetings: (5 minutes) > > Conference call: Some time in late February, early March? Please be > prepared to set a date. > > Face-to-Face: May 16 and 17, 2003 (a Friday/Saturday) Rewley > House, Oxford. > > Members' Meeting: Friday/Saturday, November 7/8, 2003, Nancy, France. > > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Nov 24 20:47:46 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:47:46 -0500 Subject: FW: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124204548.01d9fee8@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 12:27 AM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: [as to minutes from the last conference call]

>Well, they have access now. Though I have to point out, again, that these >minutes have not been formally approved by anyone, yet. Right. We might do that in the upcoming call, or by email.

> > > > 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. > >Having now read through the email archive about this proposal, I am torn >between delight at the proposed work plan and gloom at the fact that it >doesn't seem to want to involve any non-N-American participation at all. I >suppose we just dont have any digital library tei expertise on this side of >the atlantic. It just happened that the people who *volunteered* to do this were north american. And then, of course, the sources of funding are north american as well. But I'm sure that the working group would welcome anyone willing to pick up a shovel. J. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Nov 24 20:51:17 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:51:17 -0500 Subject: FW: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124204837.01da3020@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 12:28 AM 11/25/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Can I propose the following additional items for the agenda: > >(a) Editors' proposal for handling nontrivial changes to the Guidelines. See >http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html (shouldnt take long!) I'll add this.

>(b) Review of workplan and timetable for TEI P5. See >http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/p5.html >(could take ages if we discuss the technical aspects) Yes, but we won't have much time for any single item, and if we add new ones, less than 15 minutes for any one of them. Still, we should at least review the timetable.

>(c) Status of Master/manuscript description work. MJD to report. (no idea!)

We can add this, but I think it will be very short--there's no news that I'm aware of. Perhaps Merrilee and Matthew can put their heads together before the call, and come up with an update. John From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Nov 25 08:16:35 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:16:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: FW: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's not my intent to exclude anyone (or any continent). Our plan so far is to apply for grant funding from the US Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS: ), with an application deadline of Feb.1. I had assumed that this US Federal grant would exclude non-US participants (as NEH grants do). However, the eligibility statement for the IMLS grants states: "IMLS recognizes the potential for valuable contributions to the overall goals of National Leadership Grants by public, non-profit, non-US, and for-profit entities that do not meet the eligibility requirements below. Although such entities may not serve as the official applicants, they are encouraged to participate in projects as partners." I'll send an email to the program officer at IMLS, but it sounds like non-US librarians may be able to participate. The question will be--can they receive IMLS funding? Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Burnard Towers wrote: > Having now read through the email archive about this proposal, I am torn > between delight at the proposed work plan and gloom at the fact that it > doesn't seem to want to involve any non-N-American participation at all. I > suppose we just dont have any digital library tei expertise on this side of > the atlantic. > From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Nov 25 08:30:45 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:30:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: conference call reminder, agenda and materials In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021124132909.01dc33e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: An additional reminder--the conference call is tomorrow (Tuesday). (Someone tried this morning.) My phone number, just in case you would like to call, is 812-855-9290. Of course, that number will be busy during the conference call. Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu

On Sun, 24 Nov 2002, John Unsworth wrote: > TEI Council Members and Editors: > > This is a reminder that the TEI Council will hold a conference call on > Tuesday, November 26th, at 1 pm UTC. To adjust for your local time, see > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html. (Hints: 8 am eastern > time in the US; 5 am in California; 10 pm in Japan). > > To Connect to the Call, dial: (812) 856-3550, Passcode 0612# > For Help, dial: (812) 856-5759 > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Nov 25 18:58:46 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:58:46 -0500 Subject: Stand-Off Markup Workgroup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125185722.01da5818@j.mail.virginia.edu> Council members might want this at hand during the conference call tomorrow, Tuesday. John

>X-Sender: dgd at mama.stg.brown.edu (Unverified) >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:33:10 +0100 >Reply-To: "TEI Stand-Off Markup, XLink, XPointer WG" > >Sender: "TEI Stand-Off Markup, XLink, XPointer WG" > >From: "David G. Durand" >Subject: Rough outline of topics and deliverables and outstanding issues >To: TEI-SOM at listserv.brown.edu > >New copy of hasty converted file. > >[Note to Lou: these are notes, not a proper working document at this >point. I understand that work group products must and will be proper >TEI XML. This isn't even proper HTML (though the tags do match)] > > >TEI-export temp.tbx > * TEI > * For call to TEI council! > > * Collaboration between ISO TC4 and TEI. > > * [not an issue for SOM group]Henry Thompson has explicitly > requested comments about SDATA, because the W3C is becoming aware that > the Private-use area is not a legitimate solution to the non-unicode > character problem. > > * notes > * What we're doing > > * XPointer will be used for everything, at least everything > that is hypertext-like. Because TEI extended pointers will no longer be > needed to address external elements, or to select ranges, Hypertext > linking attributes will no longer be IDREFs by default, but rather URI > references. This means that TEI linking elements can be standard XLinks, > which also increases the power and standards-reliance of the TEI. The TEI > DTD will need to be changed so that the DTD can indicate the fact that > the new, specialized CDATA attributes contain Uniform Resource Identifiers. > * This can perhaps be done by using the type system of a > schema language, or may bn reflected by a special entity in the DTD. It > is an open question whether we would like to accomodate a standard option > for reverting the URI references to IDREFs. This is still an open issue > for the committee. > * a new parameter entity will be used to define an attribute > value type (TEI terminology?), that will declare it as a "pointing > attribute". An IDREF attribute will mutate into a URI Reference attribute > that will contain a single URI reference according to the proper IETF RFC > ????. An IDREFS attribute will contain multiple URI references, separated > by one or more spaces. The base URI used for the URI references will be > determined following the appropriate XML rules, including xml:base. > * Why xpointer > > * Normalizes ranges > * Makes external file references simple > * Deliverables > * rewritten hypertext chapter (SA) > > * This chapter as it stands will need to be re-done almost > completely. We have not discerned differences significant enough to keep > the old mechanisms in place. > > * We have discovered some things that the TEI will > legitimately need to extend: e.g. the canonical reference mechanism. This > should be possible by means of a new scheme. > > * The current treatment of ranges will change significantly > with the use of XPointer. The cascading pointer mechanism will be > eliminated for normal links entirely. The entity-reference technique may > well be worth abandoning, or at least deprecating. > > * We recommend, though we cannot perform the entire revision > ourselves, that IDREFs genrally be replaced by URI references (and > XPointer, as needed). In this case, the cascading or indirect pointer can > be completely eliminated from the TEI. This also simplifies TEIU linking > applications. > > * The biggest lack is regular expression selection of elements > and attributes (non-critical, we believe) and regular expression > selection within body text (critical, most of us think). > * New description of standoff markup for TEI > > * This document will describe the way in which TEI > documents can create standoff markup of other documents, in a variety of > media types. This will be handled as a TEI document in which elements and > PCDATA chunks may be replaced by specuialized linking elements specifying > their content. This description will be integrated into the segmentation > and Alignment chapter. > * While a conref-like facility is a tempting idea, we will > not implement a global attribute that pulls remote data into its content. > This means that any external annotation will be done by means of creating > a special reference element as a child in the position where the remote > data would appear. In the case where the entire content of some element > is remotely stored, that element will simply have only one child -- the > standoff markup link. > * The standoff markup link differs from a standard link in > several ways: > * It has special semantics of establishing a parent-child > relationship between it's parent element and the element or elements it > points to. > * It is an (not?? I no longer am sure this condition is > needed) an error for a standoff markup element to indirectly refer to > itself in this way. While cyclic annotations are possible, they should be > expressed with links, not standoff markup. This condition corresponds to > the layering conditions typically imposed by linguistic markup. It also > enables the creation of "flatttened" documents, by starting at one > document, and treating standoff links to other documents as inclusion > links (although some standoff links may remain in cases where children > are shared). > * The range of elements selected by a standoff markup > element must meet the same tag-balancing conditions as the XML standard > imposes on an external entity. > * Notes on media formats > > * We will create a document (which might be an appendix) > explaining critical issues in media formats (and delimiting which ones > cannot be solves by the TEI, for instance, varying timebases interaction > with format conversions). This means that linking in and out of media > will be storage format dependent. We cannot speak for the ages as to the > best formats (in fact they change a lot), but should give some general > principles for such decisions, and "good practice" suggestions based on > those principles. > * Corpus notes > > * These will take the form of a moderate requrite to the > current chapter, keeping the basic ideas, but using the new mechanisms > (Xpointer, XLink, etc). > > * There will also be a good practice appendix associated with > this section, describing such issues as the recommendation for separate > storage of annotations and "base texts" in corpora, as well as the use of > stratified annotations where appropriate. We will endeavor to make all of > the mechanisms used here be compatible with XLink and XPointer. > > * We should describle the use of URNs and xml:base in > controlling the resolution of URI references in practical processing, so > that people do not get tracpped into constantly re-writing > inappropriately absolute URLs. > > * We will have corpus examples from memebers of the workgroup > (in progress). > * software > > * We have a preliminary TEI extended pointer translator already. > > * We will want to have a TEI "link converter" that will > convert linking elements of P4 XML encoded texts to the new P5 format > linking elements. > > * We want to have a working XPointer implementation, of at > least limited use, with some worked examples. (This is not yet started). > > * brief note on graphs > > * We will present alternatives using RDF and topic maps for > the representation of graphs. These will be in the form of a note to the > editors, rather than a complete specification, as it's really a sideline. > > * At the minimum, we will clean up the RDF note already > written, as that may be of use. > * update of canonical reference chapter > * Issues > > * A variety of issues drawn from little notes: > * Alternatives and Joins > > * What do we do about this? > * Is the form of the deliverable just instructions to the > editors, or do we want to revise the chapter itself? At the least, it > seems that we will need to allow/require XPointer rather than IDREFs if > we want these elements to be maximally useful for linguistic annotation, > because we neeed to be able to transparently annotate external files. > * Idrefs > > * ID/IDREF complete unanimity on the hypertext area. strong > recommendation for the rest of the TEI, where ID/IDREF come into play. > * IDREF fallback > > * It is still an open question whether we should make it easy > for simple hypertext applications to fall back to the use if ID/IDREF. > > * Advantages: > * This allows people to use very simple markup. > * ID/IDREF are checked by any validating parser. > > * Disadvantages: > * The required # sign will be confusing to those already used > to ID/IDREF (if they are unfamiliar with HTML). > * link checking software willl be required for project > production personnel to check links, because the lost functionality of > ID/IDREF is very important. > * TEI Graphs > > * Graphs recommend re-orientation to RDF or Topic Maps. Choice > not yet laid out, but an initial study of options has been done by Chris > Catton. > * canonical references > > * We need to consider chap 32: algorithm for canonical > references. > * working document > * Schema language > > * This is an place where we could take a more relaxed approach > than our predecessors, perhaps aided by more modern schema technologies. > * At the TEI meeting, Sebastian explained a plan whereby the > guidelines would describe practice in a way that would allow automatic > generation of the relevant TEI schemas directly from the guidelines. This > would mean that the guidelines would be capable of supporting XML Schema, > RelaxNG, XML DTDs, and maybe even SGML DTDs, because the actual > declarations would not be part of the document. > * This makes our job easier, because the TEI guidelines could > define new attribute types: Pointer, which could be IDREF or XPointer > depending on the user's needs, > * Pointers, which could be IDREFS or a list of XPointers. > * Examples for TEI > > * Xlink examples from corpus-people. > * literary exasmples (markup of a CD-ROM?) > > * Conversions of existing examples (which are decent), but > whose context may have changed radically. > * How do namesppaces get declared in TEI document instances > * if we use xlink for instance, is there a standard prefix > declared? this is needed to use DTDs for instance, so that arrributes in > other namespaces can be included. WE need this for xlink. > * Some data model issues > > * relations, and entities: > > * cascading of ordering schemes and annotations, vs. explicit > orderings of items > * linear orderings within which ranges are objects > > * differences between various decisions on ordering of ranges. > >-- ------------------------ David Durand Adjunct Associate Professor >(research), Brown University. VP, Software Architecture, Ingenta Cell: +1 >401-935-5317 FAX: +1 401-331-2015 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Nov 25 19:20:14 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:20:14 -0500 Subject: revised agenda for conference call Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125191956.01da56a8@j.mail.virginia.edu> TEI Council Members and Editors: REVISED AGENDA FOLLOWS This is a reminder that the TEI Council will hold a conference call on Tuesday, November 26th, at 1 pm UTC. To adjust for your local time, see http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html. (Hints: 8 am eastern time in the US; 5 am in California; 10 pm in Japan). Please read through the following, in advance of the call. If you cannot take part, or are not ready to report as listed below, please let me know. If you want council members to look at additional or different materials for something listed below, just send a note to tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu. If you think there should be other items on this agenda, let me know as soon as possible. To Connect to the Call, dial: (812) 856-3550, Passcode 0612# For Help, dial: (812) 856-5759 Expected to participate: Syd Bauman, Alex Bia, David Birnbaum, Lou Burnard, Matthew Driscoll, David Durand, Tomaz Erjavec, Merrilee Proffitt, Sebastian Rahtz, Laurent Romary, Susan Schreibman, John Unsworth, Perry Willett, Christian Wittern. Agenda: 11 items, 5 to 15 minutes apiece. ----------------------------------------------------- 1) Minutes of the last conference call, minute-taker for this one. (1-1:05 UTC)

The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. A final version of these belongs at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/index.html but I don't find it there. Also, by the way, the list of TEI Council members at http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council needs to be brought up to date. ----------------------------------------------------- 2) Update from Chris Ruotolo on the SGML-XML Migration Working Group (1:05-1:15 UTC) Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw76.html Materials at: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/MI/ ----------------------------------------------------- 3) Update from Christian Wittern on Character Encoding Workgroup (1:15-1:25 UTC) Original charge: http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw72.html New Terms of reference: http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/ce01.html and Questions from Christian Wittern re: P5 "In the reports of the workgroups at MM2 in Chicago, and also in the discussions of the migration WG immediately after that, it became clear (at least to me) that there are some architectural decisions that have to be made on the road to P5. It would make the work of these WG's much easier if some of these decisions could be made in a timely way. What I have in mind here are the following issues, but this is just from my own perspective, whereas the problem area is clearly much larger: - Can we expect entities to be available in P5? Background: The various XML schema languages have to my knowledge decided to abandon entities. What to we do? (My concern is here more with the TEI 'user space', as opposed to the use of entities internal to DTD processing, which probably would not be affected.) One of the many areas affected would be "Section 6.2 Treatment of Punctuation", which will need some revision anyway. - Should/could P5 limit the content of attribute values to tokens (and similar material) as opposed to the many attribute values in P4, which allow essentially the same content as in PCDATA. Background: Attribute values are different from PCDATA in that they can not contain other markup constructs. This makes it impossible, for example, to specify language, writing system, readings and the like for the content of attribute values. Additionally, there is some area of conflict between XML:lang and language specification in TEI, which could be cleared up as well. To make this possible, things like bar would have to be expressed as bar foo Since this would require a considerable change to the architecture of TEI and the view of its underlying text (which could not be considered to be 'simply a concetanation of all #PCDATA in a document', I would appreciate a statement from the council on this." ----------------------------------------------------- 4) Update from David Durand on the Stand-Off Markup Working Group (1:25-1:35 UTC) (Charter at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw74.html) ----------------------------------------------------- 5) Report from Perry on the proposed TEI in Libraries Working Group. (1:35-1:45 UTC) This proposal arises out of discussion at the members' meeting in Chicago, and subsequent discussion on a majordomo list archived at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-lib/. Members of this discussion are John Unsworth, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, Ken Price, Natasha Smith, Nancy Kushigian, Chris Powell, Merrilee Proffitt, and Daniel Pitti. "TEI in Libraries Working Group Objectives: To create a suite of TEI-approved materials and tools to support the use of TEI in a digital library setting, including: 1. A set of guidelines for the use of TEI in libraries, building on the existing document "TEI Text Encoding in Libraries Guidelines" from 1999, and enhancing it by considering library-specific encoding needs and approaches, by updating it to include P4 and XML dtds, and by adding examples and enhanced explanations, recommendations for headers, linking page images to text, use by vendors, etc.; 2. A set of specific dtds for various encoding levels; 3. XSL stylesheets; 4. a working system for search and display, using lightweight, open source components; 5. a set of training documents, with training workshops for librarians. To do this, the working group will 1. Investigate grant opportunities, particularly with the IMLS for drafting the guidelines, and NEH for training and development activities. (We'll have to restrict the working group to U.S. participants for these grants.) 2. Survey current use of the TEI among digital libraries. We will coordinate with the TEI SGML/XML Conversion Working Group on this activity. 3. Survey development of metadata standards such as METS, MODS, Dublin Core, MARCXML, and others, to give recommendations for their use in conjunction with TEI-encoded files. Administrative Chair of the workgroup is Perry Willett (Indiana University) Deadlines * By December 6, working group membership is set. * By January 10, a draft grant proposal for IMLS is finished to be reviewed by working group members. * By January 20, the final draft is readied for submission to IMLS By March 1, decision to pursue grant funding from the NEH for training component (with a series of short deadlines, ending July 1 with submission of application). Work via email and perhaps meet as opportunities arise in conjunction with conferences." ----------------------------------------------------- 6) Feature Structures and ISO (1:45-1:50 UTC) Laurent asks: "Do you think we would have time to validate Garry Simons' proposal to use TEI Feature Structure Chapters as a basis for an ISO standard on FS interchange under the auspicies of TC37/SC4? We have had an important SC4 workshop last week that endorsed this proposal." ----------------------------------------------------- 7) Editors' proposal for handling nontrivial changes to the Guidelines (1:50-1:55 UTC) See http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw78.html ----------------------------------------------------- 8) TEI Adoption of Project Materials (1:55-2:10 UTC) For example, from Charles Faulhaber (a) "the DTD for medieval manuscript transcription is now finished and is available, along with instructions on how to use it at: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Scriptorium/transcription.html We would like to submit it formally for vetting by TEI in the hopes of having it adopted as an official DTD. We're pretty happy with it. I just wish that we had a good character set to go along with it." (b) and David Chesnutt's MEP materials: http://adh.sc.edu/MepDTDs.html - the MEP dtds http://adh.sc.edu/MepGuide.html - the MEP guidelines http://adh.sc.edu/meptsdv1.html - the MEP tag library "Although developed specifically for the historical editing community, the DTDs are currently being used by similar literary projects like the Mark Twain letters at UCB and the Thomas Carlyle letters at Duke. Needless to say, I'm very pleased to see the work go beyond our small group of historical editors." There is discussion of this agenda item on the TEI-Council list, October 23rd and following: you may review the discussion at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/ (username: tei password: c0ns0rtium). ----------------------------------------------------- 9) Review of workplan and timetable for TEI P5 (2:10-2:20 UTC) See http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/p5.html ----------------------------------------------------- 10) Status of Master/manuscript description work (2:20-2:25 UTC) News from Matthew Driscoll? Merrilee Proffitt? ----------------------------------------------------- 11) Next Meetings: (2:25-2:30 UTC) Conference call: Some time in late February, early March? Please be prepared to set a date. Items not dealt with from the agenda for this call will be automatically forwarded to the agenda for our next call. Face-to-Face: May 16 and 17, 2003 (a Friday/Saturday) Rewley House, Oxford. Members' Meeting: Friday/Saturday, November 7/8, 2003, Nancy, France. From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Nov 25 19:29:52 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:29:52 -0000 Subject: revised agenda for conference call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125191956.01da56a8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu > [mailto:owner-tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu]On Behalf Of John > Unsworth > Sent: 26 November 2002 00:20 > To: TEI Council > Cc: cjr2q at etext.lib.virginia.edu > Subject: revised agenda for conference call > > 1) Minutes of the last conference call, minute-taker for this > one. (1-1:05 UTC) > > > The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. A > final version of these belongs at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/index.html > but I don't find it there. > Not so. I spent some time yesterday sorting this out. The notes from the last call are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/, where they should be.

> Also, by the way, the list of TEI Council members at > > http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEI-TEI-C.html#TEI-council > > needs to be brought up to date. > This, on the other hand, is still true. From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Nov 25 19:37:30 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 19:37:30 -0500 Subject: revised agenda for conference call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021125193136.01efec38@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 12:29 AM 11/26/2002 +0000, you wrote: > > The only minutes I can find from our June 24, 2002 conference call are at > > http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0254.html. A > > final version of these belongs at http://www.tei-c.org/Members/index.html > > but I don't find it there. > > > >Not so. I spent some time yesterday sorting this out. The notes from the >last call are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/, where they should be. Thanks, Lou--and sorry for overlooking this. If Council members have a moment to review the minutes from the June 24 conference call before our call tomorrow (or later today, depending on where you are...) we could amend or approve them during our meeting. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Nov 26 07:58:11 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:58:11 -0500 Subject: in re: P5 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021126074958.01da6a50@j.mail.virginia.edu> Regarding the schedule for P5, which is item 9 on our agenda, here's Sebastian's proposed schedule from last June: 1. The proposal for "son of ODD" markup should be completed by 12/2002. Responsibility for the initial draft to lie with LB and SR. 2. At the start of 2003, we a) release (hopefully) a P4 supplement with the character set revision and the manuscript additional tagset b) start a public consultation about omissions/additions/corrections of tags and tagsets (coordinated by SB) c) release a table of contents for P5 3. in 3/2003, we make a public statement about where the TEI is going with regard to W3C standards, linking etc; it is clear at this point how P5 is going to work. 4. from 01/2003 to 06/2003, P5 is on the table and open for dissection 5. at the end of 06/2002, P5 is stabilized and is open for content editing 6. In 12/2003, we release a beta version of P5, for publication in 2004 [The whole of this note on P5 is on the TEI-Council archive, at: http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0242.html ] From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Nov 27 16:39:15 2002 From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Burnard Towers) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:39:15 -0000 Subject: draft notes from yesterday's call Message-ID: Those members of the Council not all turkey-ed out may like to check the draft notes from yesterday's conference call: they are at http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm03.html (and .xml) Corrections, protests, and cranberry sauce to me by the weekend please.

--- From the Desktop at Burnard Towers --- From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Nov 27 22:40:02 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:40:02 -0500 Subject: TEI survey Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021127223707.01dd0008@j.mail.virginia.edu> A long time ago, I promised to make the results of Julia's survey of TEI users (pre-P4) available online, with a php interface. I finally got an afternoon free for the project, and the result is at: http://www.iath.virginia.edu/~jmu2m/start.teisurvey.php This is just a page-by-page display of survey results; more complex reports could probably be pre-cooked, but there are only 55 responses, so it doesn't really take that long to page through them, nor is it that difficult to get a sense of what people are saying. Sorry for the delay... John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Nov 30 14:59:20 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:59:20 -0500 Subject: draft notes from yesterday's call In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021130145448.01f3d4e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 09:39 PM 11/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Those members of the Council not all turkey-ed out may like to check the >draft notes from yesterday's conference call: they are at >http://www.tei-c.org/Council/tcm03.html (and .xml) > >Corrections, protests, and cranberry sauce to me by the weekend please.

On number 8, the question of adopting TEI materials from projects (Faulhaber, Chesnutt examples), I remember this discussion going a bit further and being a bit more positive. While we agreed that changes to the guidelines (e.g., adoption of new guidelines for manuscript description) would have to come through the workgroup mechanism, we did agree to adopt such materials without promising to update or support them, we agreed that the TEI web site might provide an intermediate home for such materials, and that the TEI might negotiate a longer-term archival arrangement for these (and indeed, all of its) materials with some appropriate (actual) archive, and we did agree to make these materials the basis for an experiment in certification, to see what it would mean to certify project materials, DTDs, etc. as TEI-compliant. I had an action item on this as well, to communicate the Council's conclusions to David and Charles. John From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sat Nov 30 17:40:23 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 30 Nov 2002 22:40:23 +0000 Subject: draft notes from yesterday's call In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021130145448.01f3d4e8@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1038696023.2680.11.camel@spqr-dell> On Sat, 2002-11-30 at 19:59, John Unsworth wrote: > we did agree to adopt > such materials without promising to update or support them, we agreed that > the TEI web site might provide an intermediate home for such materials, and > that the TEI might negotiate a longer-term archival arrangement for these with the understanding that the status of these projects would be no different from all the others listed, just that we would provide web space for projects without any other home > and we did agree to make these materials the basis for an experiment in > certification, to see what it would mean to certify project materials, > DTDs, etc. as TEI-compliant. this may be going too far, in that we don't have an action on anyone to investigate certification, do we? it would require starting with a proposal from someone about what it would mean. I am not sure the feeling of the meeting was keen enough on the idea to get started. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Dec 2 12:55:17 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:55:17 -0500 Subject: Fwd: TEI Training Proposal Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021202125310.01f7d640@j.mail.virginia.edu> Council members, Please read through the following and vote up or down on the proposed training session. Votes should be cast by the end of this week (Friday, December 6th). John >X-Sender: grockwel at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Unverified) >Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:38:29 -0500 >To: John Unsworth >From: Geoffrey Rockwell >Subject: TEI Training Proposal >Cc: TEI Training Group: ; > >Dear John, > >Below is a proposal from Julia Flanders that went to the TEI training >committee for review. We decided (without Julia's participation - she >recused herself) that this was a good proposal worthy of TEI approval. We >are recommending to the TEI Council that they approve this as an official >TEI training session to be held in conjunction with the ACH/ALLC. Julia is >already in communication with Bill. My understanding is that the proposal >needs to be circulated by you to the TEI Council for approval. It would >help Julia and Bill if this could be done sooner rather than later. > >Yours, > >Geoffrey Rockwell on behalf of the TEI Training Committee (Sebastian and >Perry) >_______________________ >RATIONALE >This training session is aimed at people who are either in the process of >designing an encoding system for a project engaged in capturing literary >texts, or are already working on such a project. In designing this >session, we assume that for such people, what is most urgently needed is >the opportunity to focus on specific encoding problems they have >encountered: while they can read TEI for themselves and get general advice >from TEI-L, it is more difficult for them to get sustained attention and >dynamic feedback. This session will provide a valuable opportunity to take >a focused look at a particular problem or set of problems, in a group of >knowledgeable peers guided by a TEI expert. Rather than providing training >on a predetermined set of topics, this session will respond to the actual >needs and interests of its participants, acting rather like an intensive >consulting session. > >Participants in the first day are not expected to have familiarity with >the TEI, although some basic and general understanding of how markup >lanuages work will be helpful. Participants in the second day are expected >to have some familiarity with the TEI, so as to be able to participate >meaningfully in discussions of encoding strategies and to be able to >understand and apply the advice they may receive. They are not expected to >be experts, or to be widely familiar with the TEI; indeed, it is expected >that they will have encountered an encoding challenge which they don't >feel they can solve unassisted. > >DESCRIPTION >The proposed course would be organized as a two-part seminar. The first >day would be an introductory session aimed at beginners, to introduce them >to the TEI through document analysis and problem-solving. This first >session would use case studies developed by the organizers which will give >the participants the opportunity to address encoding problems in a >real-world setting. > >The second day of the course would be aimed at an audience already >familiar with the TEI (which could include participants from the first >day, since the topics are conceptual rather than technical). It would >focus on case studies brought to the session by the participants. Each >participant will be asked to bring (and to submit in advance) a specific >encoding problem or set of problems to the session. During the course of >the session, each participant will receive focused attention from the >instructor and the other session participants, with the goal of answering >the participant's questions and resolving whatever problems they have to >present. The session will also include time for a more general discussion >of the shared problems and issues that the case studies illustrate, and >for a comparison of the different projects and their goals. While >participants are encouraged to submit a case study, those with a general >interest and no specific problem may also attend. > >There will be four instructors for this course. For the first day, the >course will be limited to a maximum of 18 participants. For the second >day, the course will be limited to a maximum of 12 projects, with up to >two participants from each project. On both days, the participants will be >divided into two groups with two instructors leading each group. > >The course will have several pedagogical goals: > >To answer specific questions about how to encode literary texts using TEI >To expose participants to a broader range of materials from projects other >than their own >To enable participants to practice problem-solving and document analysis >skills by examining real-world encoding challenges, with guidance from experts >To help participants address encoding problems in the context of important >constraints and considerations such as audience, available resources, need >to repurpose the data, etc. (in other words, to contextualize the encoding >decisions rather than presenting them as having a single right answer) > >LOGISTICS AND FACILITIES >Each day's session will begin at 9:30 pm and will last until 6:00 pm, with >a one-hour break for lunch at 1:00 and two coffee breaks (at 11:30 and 3:30). > >Each of the two groups will focus on each of its case studies in turn, >spending about an hour on each project (more if there are fewer participants). > >Following the session, if there are any questions which for reasons of >time have not been satisfactorily resolved, the instructors will follow up >via email with the participants for a reasonable interval to attempt to >come up with a solution. > >The participants can meet in two adjacent classrooms. No special >facilities are needed for this session; the only equipment required is a >whiteboard and a projector for a laptop in each room. The instructor will >bring a computer on which examples can be tested for validity, and a copy >of P4 for reference. > >RATES AND FINANCING >The fee to attend both days will be $225 per person for TEI members and >$275 for non-members. The fee for attending only one day will be $150 per >person for TEI members and $200 for non-members. 15% of the fees will be >paid to the TEI Consortium and the remainder (after paying for room and >food) will be divided among the instructors. > >OUTREACH >The session will be advertised through the TEI web site, through the >publicity for the TEI members' meeting, and also in email sent to TEI-L, >Humanist, AHDS-L, ninch-announce, and other relevant lists. >Applications will be sent by email to the instructors, who will accept >them on a first-come, first-served basis. The only exception will be >applications which are obviously inappropriate (for instance, projects >whose needs are widely different from the scope of the session, such as >scientific data, or applicants who have no experience with text encoding). >In such cases the instructors will contact the applicant and discuss the >application with him/her. Final decisions about the appropriateness of a >given application will be made by the instructors. > >INSTRUCTORS >The instructors will be Julia Flanders, Terry Catapano, Syd Bauman, and >Brett Barney. > >Julia Flanders is the Director of the Women Writers Project. She has 8 >years of experience working with TEI at the WWP, a project which practices >intensive TEI encoding research on problems of encoding literary and >historical documents and early printed books. She designed the WWP's >training materials and documentation, and has trained the WWP's encoders >for 6 years. She also consults as a TEI specialist and has conducted >seminars on TEI encoding. > >Terry Catapano has several years experience working with TEI, and >currently is a markup consultant with the Pierpont Morgan Library and The >New York Botanical Garden. Previously he was Electronic Text Manager at >the New York Public Library and has worked at the Center for Electronic >Texts in the Humanities (CETH) and The Papers of Thomas A. Edison at >Rutgers University. He also is using TEI to support study of late 17th >century British and American printing, preparing TEI-based transcriptions >of a number of works by Cotton Mather. > >Syd Bauman is the North American Editor of the TEI and also works at the >Women Writers Project, where he has over 10 years of experience working >with the TEI, training encoders, and solving encoding problems. He has >also conducted TEI training sessions. > >Brett Barney is TEI Library Specialist at the University of >Nebraska-Lincoln, where he designs markup practices, trains encoders, >writes documentation, and conducts training sessions for several large >encoding projects. In his work on the Walt Whitman Archive, the Letters of >Henry James Project, the Willa Cather Electronic Archive, and the Journals >of the Lewis and Clark Expedition Online he has several years' experience >in applying the TEI to the electronic capture of a range of manuscript and >print materials. From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Dec 2 14:52:36 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 02 Dec 2002 19:52:36 +0000 Subject: Fwd: TEI Training Proposal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021202125310.01f7d640@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1038858756.1312.2.camel@spqr-dell> On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 17:55, John Unsworth wrote: > Council members, > > Please read through the following and vote up or down on the proposed > training session. Votes should be cast by the end of this week (Friday, > December 6th). up s From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Dec 2 18:47:34 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:47:34 +0900 Subject: Fwd: TEI Training Proposal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021202125310.01f7d640@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: John Unsworth writes: > Council members, > > Please read through the following and vote up or down on the proposed > training session. Votes should be cast by the end of this week (Friday, > December 6th). up +1; Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From alex.bia at ua.es Tue Dec 3 05:27:11 2002 From: alex.bia at ua.es (Alejandro Bia) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 11:27:11 +0100 Subject: TEI Training Proposal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.20021203112709.4a8fab3c@aitana.cpd.ua.es> Thumbs up.- Nice training proposal. Alex.- At 12:55 p.m. 02/12/02 -0500, you wrote: >Council members, > >Please read through the following and vote up or down on the proposed >training session. Votes should be cast by the end of this week (Friday, >December 6th). > >John > >>X-Sender: grockwel at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Unverified) >>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:38:29 -0500 >>To: John Unsworth >>From: Geoffrey Rockwell >>Subject: TEI Training Proposal >>Cc: TEI Training Group: ; >> >>Dear John, >> >>Below is a proposal from Julia Flanders that went to the TEI training >>committee for review. We decided (without Julia's participation - she >>recused herself) that this was a good proposal worthy of TEI approval. We >>are recommending to the TEI Council that they approve this as an official >>TEI training session to be held in conjunction with the ACH/ALLC. Julia is >>already in communication with Bill. My understanding is that the proposal >>needs to be circulated by you to the TEI Council for approval. It would >>help Julia and Bill if this could be done sooner rather than later. >> >>Yours, >> >>Geoffrey Rockwell on behalf of the TEI Training Committee (Sebastian and >>Perry) >>_______________________ >>RATIONALE >>This training session is aimed at people who are either in the process of >>designing an encoding system for a project engaged in capturing literary >>texts, or are already working on such a project. In designing this >>session, we assume that for such people, what is most urgently needed is >>the opportunity to focus on specific encoding problems they have >>encountered: while they can read TEI for themselves and get general advice >>from TEI-L, it is more difficult for them to get sustained attention and >>dynamic feedback. This session will provide a valuable opportunity to take >>a focused look at a particular problem or set of problems, in a group of >>knowledgeable peers guided by a TEI expert. Rather than providing training >>on a predetermined set of topics, this session will respond to the actual >>needs and interests of its participants, acting rather like an intensive >>consulting session. >> >>Participants in the first day are not expected to have familiarity with >>the TEI, although some basic and general understanding of how markup >>lanuages work will be helpful. Participants in the second day are expected >>to have some familiarity with the TEI, so as to be able to participate >>meaningfully in discussions of encoding strategies and to be able to >>understand and apply the advice they may receive. They are not expected to >>be experts, or to be widely familiar with the TEI; indeed, it is expected >>that they will have encountered an encoding challenge which they don't >>feel they can solve unassisted. >> >>DESCRIPTION >>The proposed course would be organized as a two-part seminar. The first >>day would be an introductory session aimed at beginners, to introduce them >>to the TEI through document analysis and problem-solving. This first >>session would use case studies developed by the organizers which will give >>the participants the opportunity to address encoding problems in a >>real-world setting. >> >>The second day of the course would be aimed at an audience already >>familiar with the TEI (which could include participants from the first >>day, since the topics are conceptual rather than technical). It would >>focus on case studies brought to the session by the participants. Each >>participant will be asked to bring (and to submit in advance) a specific >>encoding problem or set of problems to the session. During the course of >>the session, each participant will receive focused attention from the >>instructor and the other session participants, with the goal of answering >>the participant's questions and resolving whatever problems they have to >>present. The session will also include time for a more general discussion >>of the shared problems and issues that the case studies illustrate, and >>for a comparison of the different projects and their goals. While >>participants are encouraged to submit a case study, those with a general >>interest and no specific problem may also attend. >> >>There will be four instructors for this course. For the first day, the >>course will be limited to a maximum of 18 participants. For the second >>day, the course will be limited to a maximum of 12 projects, with up to >>two participants from each project. On both days, the participants will be >>divided into two groups with two instructors leading each group. >> >>The course will have several pedagogical goals: >> >>To answer specific questions about how to encode literary texts using TEI >>To expose participants to a broader range of materials from projects other >>than their own >>To enable participants to practice problem-solving and document analysis >>skills by examining real-world encoding challenges, with guidance from experts >>To help participants address encoding problems in the context of important >>constraints and considerations such as audience, available resources, need >>to repurpose the data, etc. (in other words, to contextualize the encoding >>decisions rather than presenting them as having a single right answer) >> >>LOGISTICS AND FACILITIES >>Each day's session will begin at 9:30 pm and will last until 6:00 pm, with >>a one-hour break for lunch at 1:00 and two coffee breaks (at 11:30 and 3:30). >> >>Each of the two groups will focus on each of its case studies in turn, >>spending about an hour on each project (more if there are fewer participants). >> >>Following the session, if there are any questions which for reasons of >>time have not been satisfactorily resolved, the instructors will follow up >>via email with the participants for a reasonable interval to attempt to >>come up with a solution. >> >>The participants can meet in two adjacent classrooms. No special >>facilities are needed for this session; the only equipment required is a >>whiteboard and a projector for a laptop in each room. The instructor will >>bring a computer on which examples can be tested for validity, and a copy >>of P4 for reference. >> >>RATES AND FINANCING >>The fee to attend both days will be $225 per person for TEI members and >>$275 for non-members. The fee for attending only one day will be $150 per >>person for TEI members and $200 for non-members. 15% of the fees will be >>paid to the TEI Consortium and the remainder (after paying for room and >>food) will be divided among the instructors. >> >>OUTREACH >>The session will be advertised through the TEI web site, through the >>publicity for the TEI members' meeting, and also in email sent to TEI-L, >>Humanist, AHDS-L, ninch-announce, and other relevant lists. >>Applications will be sent by email to the instructors, who will accept >>them on a first-come, first-served basis. The only exception will be >>applications which are obviously inappropriate (for instance, projects >>whose needs are widely different from the scope of the session, such as >>scientific data, or applicants who have no experience with text encoding). >>In such cases the instructors will contact the applicant and discuss the >>application with him/her. Final decisions about the appropriateness of a >>given application will be made by the instructors. >> >>INSTRUCTORS >>The instructors will be Julia Flanders, Terry Catapano, Syd Bauman, and >>Brett Barney. >> >>Julia Flanders is the Director of the Women Writers Project. She has 8 >>years of experience working with TEI at the WWP, a project which practices >>intensive TEI encoding research on problems of encoding literary and >>historical documents and early printed books. She designed the WWP's >>training materials and documentation, and has trained the WWP's encoders >>for 6 years. She also consults as a TEI specialist and has conducted >>seminars on TEI encoding. >> >>Terry Catapano has several years experience working with TEI, and >>currently is a markup consultant with the Pierpont Morgan Library and The >>New York Botanical Garden. Previously he was Electronic Text Manager at >>the New York Public Library and has worked at the Center for Electronic >>Texts in the Humanities (CETH) and The Papers of Thomas A. Edison at >>Rutgers University. He also is using TEI to support study of late 17th >>century British and American printing, preparing TEI-based transcriptions >>of a number of works by Cotton Mather. >> >>Syd Bauman is the North American Editor of the TEI and also works at the >>Women Writers Project, where he has over 10 years of experience working >>with the TEI, training encoders, and solving encoding problems. He has >>also conducted TEI training sessions. >> >>Brett Barney is TEI Library Specialist at the University of >>Nebraska-Lincoln, where he designs markup practices, trains encoders, >>writes documentation, and conducts training sessions for several large >>encoding projects. In his work on the Walt Whitman Archive, the Letters of >>Henry James Project, the Willa Cather Electronic Archive, and the Journals >>of the Lewis and Clark Expedition Online he has several years' experience >>in applying the TEI to the electronic capture of a range of manuscript and >>print materials. > > > --------------------------------------------------------- ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS e-mail: alex.bia at ua.es Work address: Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos) Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN Phone: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477 http://cervantesvirtual.com/ Home address: Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E Alicante, SPAIN CP:03016 --------------------------------------------------------- From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Dec 4 15:40:46 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:40:46 -0800 Subject: Fwd: TEI Training Proposal In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021202125310.01f7d640@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021204124037.01fee528@notes.rlg.org> Up from me. Merrilee At 12:55 PM 12/2/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Council members, > >Please read through the following and vote up or down on the proposed >training session. Votes should be cast by the end of this week (Friday, >December 6th). > >John > >>X-Sender: grockwel at univmail.cis.mcmaster.ca (Unverified) >>Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 12:38:29 -0500 >>To: John Unsworth >>From: Geoffrey Rockwell >>Subject: TEI Training Proposal >>Cc: TEI Training Group: ; >> >>Dear John, >> >>Below is a proposal from Julia Flanders that went to the TEI training >>committee for review. We decided (without Julia's participation - she >>recused herself) that this was a good proposal worthy of TEI approval. We >>are recommending to the TEI Council that they approve this as an official >>TEI training session to be held in conjunction with the ACH/ALLC. Julia >>is already in communication with Bill. My understanding is that the >>proposal needs to be circulated by you to the TEI Council for approval. >>It would help Julia and Bill if this could be done sooner rather than later. >> >>Yours, >> >>Geoffrey Rockwell on behalf of the TEI Training Committee (Sebastian and >>Perry) >>_______________________ >>RATIONALE >>This training session is aimed at people who are either in the process of >>designing an encoding system for a project engaged in capturing literary >>texts, or are already working on such a project. In designing this >>session, we assume that for such people, what is most urgently needed is >>the opportunity to focus on specific encoding problems they have >>encountered: while they can read TEI for themselves and get general >>advice from TEI-L, it is more difficult for them to get sustained >>attention and dynamic feedback. This session will provide a valuable >>opportunity to take a focused look at a particular problem or set of >>problems, in a group of knowledgeable peers guided by a TEI expert. >>Rather than providing training on a predetermined set of topics, this >>session will respond to the actual needs and interests of its >>participants, acting rather like an intensive consulting session. >> >>Participants in the first day are not expected to have familiarity with >>the TEI, although some basic and general understanding of how markup >>lanuages work will be helpful. Participants in the second day are >>expected to have some familiarity with the TEI, so as to be able to >>participate meaningfully in discussions of encoding strategies and to be >>able to understand and apply the advice they may receive. They are not >>expected to be experts, or to be widely familiar with the TEI; indeed, it >>is expected that they will have encountered an encoding challenge which >>they don't feel they can solve unassisted. >> >>DESCRIPTION >>The proposed course would be organized as a two-part seminar. The first >>day would be an introductory session aimed at beginners, to introduce >>them to the TEI through document analysis and problem-solving. This first >>session would use case studies developed by the organizers which will >>give the participants the opportunity to address encoding problems in a >>real-world setting. >> >>The second day of the course would be aimed at an audience already >>familiar with the TEI (which could include participants from the first >>day, since the topics are conceptual rather than technical). It would >>focus on case studies brought to the session by the participants. Each >>participant will be asked to bring (and to submit in advance) a specific >>encoding problem or set of problems to the session. During the course of >>the session, each participant will receive focused attention from the >>instructor and the other session participants, with the goal of answering >>the participant's questions and resolving whatever problems they have to >>present. The session will also include time for a more general discussion >>of the shared problems and issues that the case studies illustrate, and >>for a comparison of the different projects and their goals. While >>participants are encouraged to submit a case study, those with a general >>interest and no specific problem may also attend. >> >>There will be four instructors for this course. For the first day, the >>course will be limited to a maximum of 18 participants. For the second >>day, the course will be limited to a maximum of 12 projects, with up to >>two participants from each project. On both days, the participants will >>be divided into two groups with two instructors leading each group. >> >>The course will have several pedagogical goals: >> >>To answer specific questions about how to encode literary texts using TEI >>To expose participants to a broader range of materials from projects >>other than their own >>To enable participants to practice problem-solving and document analysis >>skills by examining real-world encoding challenges, with guidance from experts >>To help participants address encoding problems in the context of >>important constraints and considerations such as audience, available >>resources, need to repurpose the data, etc. (in other words, to >>contextualize the encoding decisions rather than presenting them as >>having a single right answer) >> >>LOGISTICS AND FACILITIES >>Each day's session will begin at 9:30 pm and will last until 6:00 pm, >>with a one-hour break for lunch at 1:00 and two coffee breaks (at 11:30 >>and 3:30). >> >>Each of the two groups will focus on each of its case studies in turn, >>spending about an hour on each project (more if there are fewer participants). >> >>Following the session, if there are any questions which for reasons of >>time have not been satisfactorily resolved, the instructors will follow >>up via email with the participants for a reasonable interval to attempt >>to come up with a solution. >> >>The participants can meet in two adjacent classrooms. No special >>facilities are needed for this session; the only equipment required is a >>whiteboard and a projector for a laptop in each room. The instructor will >>bring a computer on which examples can be tested for validity, and a copy >>of P4 for reference. >> >>RATES AND FINANCING >>The fee to attend both days will be $225 per person for TEI members and >>$275 for non-members. The fee for attending only one day will be $150 per >>person for TEI members and $200 for non-members. 15% of the fees will be >>paid to the TEI Consortium and the remainder (after paying for room and >>food) will be divided among the instructors. >> >>OUTREACH >>The session will be advertised through the TEI web site, through the >>publicity for the TEI members' meeting, and also in email sent to TEI-L, >>Humanist, AHDS-L, ninch-announce, and other relevant lists. >>Applications will be sent by email to the instructors, who will accept >>them on a first-come, first-served basis. The only exception will be >>applications which are obviously inappropriate (for instance, projects >>whose needs are widely different from the scope of the session, such as >>scientific data, or applicants who have no experience with text >>encoding). In such cases the instructors will contact the applicant and >>discuss the application with him/her. Final decisions about the >>appropriateness of a given application will be made by the instructors. >> >>INSTRUCTORS >>The instructors will be Julia Flanders, Terry Catapano, Syd Bauman, and >>Brett Barney. >> >>Julia Flanders is the Director of the Women Writers Project. She has 8 >>years of experience working with TEI at the WWP, a project which >>practices intensive TEI encoding research on problems of encoding >>literary and historical documents and early printed books. She designed >>the WWP's training materials and documentation, and has trained the WWP's >>encoders for 6 years. She also consults as a TEI specialist and has >>conducted seminars on TEI encoding. >> >>Terry Catapano has several years experience working with TEI, and >>currently is a markup consultant with the Pierpont Morgan Library and The >>New York Botanical Garden. Previously he was Electronic Text Manager at >>the New York Public Library and has worked at the Center for Electronic >>Texts in the Humanities (CETH) and The Papers of Thomas A. Edison at >>Rutgers University. He also is using TEI to support study of late 17th >>century British and American printing, preparing TEI-based transcriptions >>of a number of works by Cotton Mather. >> >>Syd Bauman is the North American Editor of the TEI and also works at the >>Women Writers Project, where he has over 10 years of experience working >>with the TEI, training encoders, and solving encoding problems. He has >>also conducted TEI training sessions. >> >>Brett Barney is TEI Library Specialist at the University of >>Nebraska-Lincoln, where he designs markup practices, trains encoders, >>writes documentation, and conducts training sessions for several large >>encoding projects. In his work on the Walt Whitman Archive, the Letters >>of Henry James Project, the Willa Cather Electronic Archive, and the >>Journals of the Lewis and Clark Expedition Online he has several years' >>experience in applying the TEI to the electronic capture of a range of >>manuscript and print materials. > From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Dec 4 23:52:18 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 23:52:18 -0500 Subject: TEI training proposal Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021204234611.01f1e030@j.mail.virginia.edu> The proposal from Julia Flanders et al. for TEI training at the ACH-ALLC conference, recommended to the Council by the TEI training committee, has been unanimously approved by the Council. Thanks very much to the Council members for responding speedily (well before the deadline), thanks to the training committee for helping to bring this proposal forward, and thanks most of all to Julia, Syd, Terry and Brett for offering to do this training. Over to you, Bill... John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 00:19:48 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 00:19:48 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205000241.01f70e80@j.mail.virginia.edu> Folks, Here's what I propose sending to Charles and David, in re: the TEI Consortium's "adoption" of documentation, DTDs, etc. for TEI-related projects. If you approve, I'll send it along--but comments, suggestions, objections, etc. are also welcome. J. ------------------------------- Dear David/Charles, The TEI Council recently met, by conference call, and took up the question that each of you, separately, had put forward, concerning the Consortium's willingness to "adopt" materials (DTDs, documentation, stylesheets, etc.) from TEI-based projects (in David's case, MEP, and in Charles' case, MS transcription materials from the Digital Scriptorium project). The consensus of the Council was this: 1. The TEI Consortium would be happy to store and serve up to the web copies of these materials, on the Consortium web site. This is not a long-term archival solution, but the Consortium will be investigating long-term archival arrangements for all of the material is houses and produces, and these materials would be included in whatever arrangement is developed. Meanwhile, we would be a reference site for these materials. 2. The TEI Consortium would not, by housing the materials, commit to further developing them, migrating them, etc.: we would simply keep and deliver them in the form in which you deposit them with us. 3. By agreeing to serve as a reference site for these materials, the TEI Consortium doesn't mean to imply that these materials will be integrated into future releases of the TEI Guidelines. Of course, they might, but the mechanism by which that would be accomplished, in these cases as in any other, would be a Council-commissioned TEI workgroup. 4. The TEI Consortium would like to use these two cases as examples for the consideration and development of internal methods and standards for "certification" of TEI-related standards and practices. We're frankly not sure what certification would mean, and we would like to work with you to answer that question, if it interests you--but we think there could be some value to your projects, and to the TEI, in establishing a mechanism by means of which the TEI Consortium could recommend re-usable TEI-related tools and methods. If you accept items 1-3, you can simply send your materials to Lou Burnard, and we'll create a space for them on the TEI site. If you agree to item 4, we can begin to talk with you about what kind of certification would be meaningful and useful, from your point of view, and how to go about benchmarking, etc.. Thanks very much, John Unsworth From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Dec 5 03:07:26 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 05 Dec 2002 09:07:26 +0100 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205000241.01f70e80@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: <1039075645.20128.15.camel@spqr> that letter seems about right to me Sebastian From david.durand at prov.ingenta.com Thu Dec 5 06:35:19 2002 From: david.durand at prov.ingenta.com (David G. Durand) Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 06:35:19 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205000241.01f70e80@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: This letter seems right to me as well. A few musings on the topic of certification, induced perhaps by jet-lag: One component of certification might be to determine conformance to the Guidelines' conformance clauses and use of extension mechanisms. It shouldn't stop there, but that is an aspect of the guidelines that is sometimes passed over lightly. It seems to me that we could learn a great deal about revisions of the idea of conformance in P5, from the process of examining projects, and evaluating both their inherent virtues and drawbacks, and also how they relate to the letter of conformance as currently written. At one point, long ago, there was talk of a fee-based certification service, similar to the MLA's critical edition certification. This sounds grisly, greedy, and grasping, perhaps, but it's actually not a bad way of allowing projects to secure grant funding for the TEI Consortium to help them with expert review of their practices. -- -- David From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 15:15:28 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 15:15:28 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205151344.01f3b660@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 06:35 AM 12/5/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >One component of certification might be to determine conformance to the >Guidelines' conformance clauses and use of extension mechanisms. It >shouldn't stop there, but that is an aspect of the guidelines that is >sometimes passed over lightly. True.

>It seems to me that we could learn a great deal about revisions of the >idea of conformance in P5, from the process of examining projects, and >evaluating both their inherent virtues and drawbacks, and also how they >relate to the letter of conformance as currently written. Yep, I agree. Some of that is going on now in Chris's migration workgroup, and I think it would be a good outcome of a certification activity for the TEI, to know more (and in more detail) about what people actually do with the Guidelines. >At one point, long ago, there was talk of a fee-based certification >service, similar to the MLA's critical edition certification. This sounds >grisly, greedy, and grasping, perhaps, but it's actually not a bad way of >allowing projects to secure grant funding for the TEI Consortium to help >them with expert review of their practices. As such, it would be a prod to writing TEI into project grant budgets, and I think *that* would be a very good thing. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 16:48:06 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:48:06 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <4001092916.1039088211@DJB.fdl.pitt.edu> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205164417.01f14568@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 11:36 AM 12/5/2002 -0500, David B. wrote:

>The final comment, building in David Durand's note, is that I'd be >cautious about undertaking certification because I'm not sure that >conformance testing or other validation or verification procedures would >be a good investment of Consortium resources. David's remark about a >fee-based service might answer that concern, and we could view it as the >same sort of arrangement as we have for Consortium-certified training >workshops. I agree, but (as my reply to David D. indicates) I think it's worth investigating, and if the principals on either of these projects is willing to help us do that, I can imagine for-fee certification as a grant-funded activity of TEI-based projects being a feasible thing to offer and a useful thing to receive. I promise not to promise too much, just an opportunity to talk about what it might be, and help us think about how to do it. J From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 16:52:37 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:52:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Some ideas on evaluation and TEI Certification Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205164947.01f36558@j.mail.virginia.edu> >From: alex.bia at ua.es >Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 14:37:03 +0100 >To: jmu2m at virginia.edu >Reply-To: alex.bia at ua.es >Subject: Some ideas on evaluation and TEI Certification > >Dear John, > >Your message to Charles Faulhaber and David Chestnutt sounds very >reasonable and follows the spirit of what was said during the >conference call, ... or at least what I managed to hear from Portugal >that day. :-) Thanks--sorry you had such a difficult time with the call...

>Point 4 made me think a little on what "TEI certified" should imply, >so here are some ideas. > >Perhaps, there should be an "evaluation & benchmarking comittee" (or >workgroup) in charge of testing and issuing reports on the quality >and usability of TEI-related tools and methods. As usual in these >cases, criteria and procedures must be first established and then >followed for these evaluations (maybe a new task for a workgroup). Or maybe a task force, if we agree to continue the distinction drawn in our last conversation.

>The resulting reports should finally go to the Council for final >approval, and perhaps a statement from the TEI-Editors would help to >determine the lifespan of the tested products concerning how the >tested objects are expected to comply with future developments and >trends of the TEI. Sure.

>The result in a favorable case should be a certification stating the >levels of TEI compliance (P3, P4, P5), XML/SGML compliance also, the >scope and possible applications of the tool, recommended usage, and >warnings or limitations if apply. Yes, that sounds right.

>After that, user comments and suggestions could also be collected on >a web page, so that the result would be what we all need when looking >for a new tool: some assurance on the benefits of adopting it as well >as warnings on drawbacks and liminations. Almost sounds like a service to members, by gosh.

>Examples and FAQs would also be desirable, but documentation should >be mandatory. I think some documentation (above a certain level of >quality) should be requested from the providers at the time of >applying for TEI certification. I agree, on all of the above. Thanks for thinking it through and sending those thoughts along. John

>All the best, >Alex.- From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Thu Dec 5 19:25:08 2002 From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern) Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:25:08 +0900 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205000241.01f70e80@j.mail.virginia.edu> Message-ID: Dear collegues, I agree mostly, but have a little quibble: John Unsworth writes: > 2. The TEI Consortium would not, by housing the materials, commit to > further developing them, migrating them, etc.: we would simply keep and > deliver them in the form in which you deposit them with us. I might asking the obvious, but last time I looked at Charles Faulhaber's site, the only format the material was offered in was a self-extracting executable archive that only could be run on some minor commercial operating system. We should at least expect (and then, would have to check) that the material offered from the TEI website does indeed conform to the Guidelines

All the best, Christian -- Christian Wittern Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Dec 5 20:04:10 2002 From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:04:10 -0800 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20021205165714.04b05dd0@notes.rlg.org> Yes, it's true, and Charles will say that the proper TEI way is "not obvious and too hard," and that he wanted to have something that was easy to use (I though emacs was easy enough, but he disagreed). So he should be encouraged to make the transcription dtd available in the proper extension file way, in addition to the way he has it available now (and the TEI would I guess archive the extension files and not the NoteTab apparatus. This will be kind of a trick, because the DTD is a standalone deal, and as far as I know, it was never properly extension-ized. Merrilee At 09:25 AM 12/6/2002 +0900, you wrote: >Dear collegues, > >I agree mostly, but have a little quibble: > >John Unsworth writes: > > > 2. The TEI Consortium would not, by housing the materials, commit to > > further developing them, migrating them, etc.: we would simply keep and > > deliver them in the form in which you deposit them with us. > >I might asking the obvious, but last time I looked at Charles >Faulhaber's site, the only format the material was offered in was a >self-extracting executable archive that only could be run on some >minor commercial operating system. We should at least expect (and >then, would have to check) that the material offered from the TEI >website does indeed conform to the Guidelines > > >All the best, > >Christian > >-- > > Christian Wittern > Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University > 47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 20:41:20 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:41:20 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205203819.01e4bdd0@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 09:25 AM 12/6/2002 +0900, Christian wrote: >I might asking the obvious, but last time I looked at Charles >Faulhaber's site, the only format the material was offered in was a >self-extracting executable archive that only could be run on some >minor commercial operating system. Atari, no doubt. > We should at least expect (and >then, would have to check) that the material offered from the TEI >website does indeed conform to the Guidelines That's the point of certification, I think. We'll ask for Charles to deposit materials in TEI....and if we certify them, we'll do that on grounds we have all agreed upon. John From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 20:41:59 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:41:59 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI adoption Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205204128.01f53348@j.mail.virginia.edu> I wrote Charles and David this afternoon. Charles' response: >Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 15:00:19 -0800 (PST) >From: Charles Faulhaber >To: John Unsworth >cc: Sharon Kim Goetz , > Consuelo Dutschke , > David Chesnutt >Subject: Re: TEI adoption > >Hi John, > >I accept 1 through 4 with great pleasure. I won't actually get in touch >with Lou yet. We are still tinkering with the best way to make the sample >transcriptions, renderings, and underlying digitized images available. > >I especially like the good-housekeeping seal-of-approval idea. > >Cordial regards and many thanks, > >Charles From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Dec 5 20:51:35 2002 From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth) Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 20:51:35 -0500 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021205165714.04b05dd0@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021205205105.01f50ab8@j.mail.virginia.edu> At 05:04 PM 12/5/2002 -0800, you wrote: >Yes, it's true, and Charles will say that the proper TEI way is "not >obvious and too hard," and that he wanted to have something that was easy >to use (I though emacs was easy enough, but he disagreed). So he should >be encouraged to make the transcription dtd available in the proper >extension file way, in addition to the way he has it available now (and >the TEI would I guess archive the extension files and not the NoteTab >apparatus. This will be kind of a trick, because the DTD is a standalone >deal, and as far as I know, it was never properly extension-ized.

Well, that's the sort of thing we'll want to examine under the "certification" heading. J From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Dec 6 02:59:46 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 06 Dec 2002 08:59:46 +0100 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1039161586.29214.3.camel@spqr> On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 01:25, Christian Wittern wrote: > I might asking the obvious, but last time I looked at Charles > Faulhaber's site, the only format the material was offered in was a > self-extracting executable archive that only could be run on some > minor commercial operating system. We should at least expect (and > then, would have to check) that the material offered from the TEI > website does indeed conform to the Guidelines I took it as a sine qua non that material submitted for putting up on the web site must be plain text, and that documentation must be written in TEI. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Dec 6 03:00:29 2002 From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: 06 Dec 2002 09:00:29 +0100 Subject: proposed letter to Faulhaber, Chesnutt In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20021205165714.04b05dd0@notes.rlg.org> Message-ID: <1039161629.29208.5.camel@spqr> On Fri, 2002-12-06 at 02:04, Merrilee Proffitt wrote: > So he should be > encouraged to make the transcription dtd available in the proper extension > file way, in addition to the way he has it available now (and the TEI would > I guess archive the extension files and not the NoteTab apparatus. This > will be kind of a trick, because the DTD is a standalone deal, and as far > as I know, it was never properly extension-ized. ounds like it fails test #1 :-} -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Dec 9 09:34:54 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:34:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council conference call 1/21/2003, 1pm UTC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Around 2am last night (that's EST), I had a mild panic attack thinking that we had scheduled the next Council conference call for tomorrow, and I hadn't even set it up. I'm relieved that we had actually said January 21, so I've taken the opportunity to set it up before I forget again. I've also set up a web page with the pertinent information: I've asked Lou to link to this from the Council webpage. I've included a link to a webpage listing ideas for improving the whole conference call experience. Best wishes, Perry Willett Main Library Indiana University pwillett at indiana.edu From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Dec 9 10:17:24 2002 From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett) Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:17:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: TEI Council conference call 1/21/2003, 1pm UTC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Diggety dang dong, forgot the tilde: Sorry 'bout that. Perry pwillett at indiana.edu

On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, C. Perry Willett wrote: > Around 2am last night (that's EST), I had a mild panic > attack thinking that we had scheduled the next Council > conference call for tomorrow, and I hadn't even set it > up. I'm relieved that we had actually said January 21, > so I've taken the opportunity to set it up before I > forget again. I've also set up a web page with the > pertinent information: > > > > I've asked Lou to link to this from the Council webpage. > I've included a link to a webpage listing ideas for > improving the whole conference call experience. Best > wishes, > > Perry Willett > Main Library > Indiana University > pwillett at indiana.edu > > > > >