From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:05:08 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:05:08 -0500
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106120431.01d58bd0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
A few reminders, concerning the upcoming TEI Council Meeting:
Attendees:
The following thirteen people have said they expect to attend this meeting:
Syd Bauman, editor
Lou Burnard, editor
Tone Merete Bruvik, executive director
Matthew Driscoll
David Durand
Fotis Jannidis (?)
Merrilee Proffitt
Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative
Geoff Rockwell
Laurent Romary (arriving late)
John Unsworth, Chair
Perry Willett
Christian Wittern
The following two people have said they will not be able to attend:
David Birnbaum
Tomaz Erjavec
If this information is incorrect, please let me know.
Time and Place:
The meeting will take place on January 12th (Saturday), beginning at 9:00
a.m., at King's College, London, in Room 27C (or Committee Room), Main
Building, Strand Campus, Strand, London WC2. I expect our meeting to last
the better part of the day, but probably not all of the
afternoon. Last-minute agenda items should be sent to me, if you have any
to suggest (the agenda as it currently stands is given below).
Lodging:
If you haven't arranged lodging, you may still want to consult the web page
that Harold Short put up on this topic, which can be found at
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/tei/
Comments on P4 Draft:
On December 4th and 5th, respectively, I sent mail to TEI-L and to
Humanist, soliciting final comments on the P4 draft guidelines, to be sent
to me or to the editors by December 31st. One set of comments was sent to
TEI-L by Hilde B?e, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugb?l for Henrik
Ibsen's Writings, and I will shortly forward a copy to the Council, to make
sure you have it. I haven't received any comments directly, but I expect
to receive some shortly from David Seaman, which I will also send to the
Council as soon as I have them. If the editors or individual Council
members have received (or generated) comments, these should be forwarded to
the Council by email as soon as possible, so that we all have a complete
set, and time to digest them before the meeting.
Agenda:
1. Charge to the Council from the Board, rules of operation for the
Council. Information pertinent to this item can be found in the bylaws, at
http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEIby-A6.html
2. A review of P4 and the comments of end-users. The draft guidelines are
at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/.
3. Workgroups needed; funding available for needed workgroups.
4. the NEH grant (a copy of that, with budget, will be sent to the Council
shortly in another email).
5. The ESTATE project: letter of recommendation and workgroups related to
ESTATE. A draft of the ESTATE proposal is available on the web at
http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/ESTATE_2.PDF, and a description of the
partners is at http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html (no "n" in
that filename...).
If there are other items that should be added to the agenda, please let me
know.
See you in just under a week,
John
Past proceedings of this email list
(tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) are archived on the web at
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/. This URL is
password-protected: if you've
forgotten the username/password, contact John Unsworth at jmu2m at virginia.edu
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:06:18 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:06:18 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Some suggestions for revision of the TEI Guidelines
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106130605.01d68ea8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
>Approved-By: syd at MAMA.STG.BROWN.EDU
>X-Sender: hiboe at mail.hf.uio.no
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> JAA21171
>Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:57:52 +0100
>Reply-To: Hilde B?e
>Sender: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list"
>
>From: Hilde B?e
>Subject: Some suggestions for revision of the TEI Guidelines
>Comments: To: TEI-lista
>Comments: cc: ibsenkod at uib.no
>To: TEI-L at listserv.brown.edu
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>
>Suggestions for the forthcoming/ongoing (?) TEI revision
>- Hilde B?e, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugb?l for Henrik Ibsen's
>Writings, 04.12.2001.
>
>Our encoding principal, Tone Merete Bruvik, has encouraged us to post this
>overview of changes and additions that Henrik Ibsen's Writings has made in
>its dtds, on the TEI discussion list as suggestions for revision of the TEI
>Guidelines.
>
>1 Suggestions for corrections
>
>1.1 , and , and
>At HIW we have discussed how to encode complex manuscript substitutions,
>additions and deletions on a number of occasions, and we have decided that
>our main task in the encoding is to give a photographic impression of the
>changes rather than try to reconstruct the order of the changes, e.g. to
>let the encoding show the genetic order of the substitutions, additions and
>deletions.
>
>Our need for the first change arises from our basic interpretation of how
>to encode manuscript corrections. When i.e. an item in the cast list has
>been deleted from the list, we want to record the whole element as deleted,
>not just the content of the element, cf. simple examples of encoding below.
>We interpret the deletion as covering not just the text of the item, but
>the item as a whole.
>
>CATILINA
>
>CATILINA
>
>This interpretation principle has made it necessary to allow , ,
> and to contain complete structural elements (i.e. ,
> etc.), cf. element definition below.
>
> (#PCDATA | abbr | address | date | dateRange | expan | measure
> | name | num | rs | time | timeRange | add | app | corr
> | damage | del | orig | reg | restore | sic | space | supplied
> | unclear | distinct | emph | foreign | gloss | hi | mentioned
> | soCalled | term | title | ptr | ref | xptr | xref | caesura
> | seg | formula | fw | handShift | bibl | biblFull | biblStruct
> | cit | q | quote | label | list | listBibl | note | witDetail
> | camera | caption | move | sound | tech | view | castList
> | figure | stage | table | text | ab | l | lg | p | sp |
> witList | appSpan | clarification
> | lgSpan | shy | witEnd | witStart |
> alt | altGrp | index | join | joinGrp | link | linkGrp |
> timeline | cb | lb | milestone | pb | addSpan | delSpan
> | gap | lacunaEnd | lacunaStart | anchor
> | epilogue | performance | prologue | set |
> divGen | titlePage | byline | docAuthor | docDate | docEdition
> | docImprint | docTitle | epigraph | imprimatur
> | titlePart | head | div1 | div2 | spOpener | speaker
> | roleDesc | role | actor | castItem | stageRole)* >
>
>
> id ID #IMPLIED
> lang IDREF #IMPLIED
> n CDATA #IMPLIED
> cert CDATA #IMPLIED
> resp IDREF #IMPLIED
> hand IDREF #IMPLIED
> status CDATA "unremarkable"
> rend CDATA #IMPLIED
> type CDATA #IMPLIED
> TEIform CDATA "del" >
>
>Because of this change it is thus only when corrections cross structural
>boundaries that we use the span elements. When corrections, deletions or
>additions span several whole elements we prefer with and ,
>or or . These elements make the processing of the encoded texts
>easier, and because of this we try to avoid span elements when possible.
>
>This change has made it necessary to include , and
>globally. We also thought this to be a good solution because in
>transcribing the Ibsen material we have found that substitutions, additions
>and deletions appear nearly everywhere in the text.
>
>1.2 Global inclusion
>We suggest that these changes are considered for inclusion in the TEI
>Guidelines.
>
>1.2.1
>We use the element to record pagination, foliation of leafs, sheet
>signatures, column numbers, headers and footers. These appear everywhere,
>and we have found it useful to include this element globally.
>Our guidelines on the use of this element are as follows:
>" should where possible be put outside structural elements
>(acts/scenes/speeches/stage directions) [...] should be placed inside
>elements that span page breaks etc., eg. within speeches beginning on one
>page and continuing on the next." (cited from HIW's guidelines on text
>encoding)
>
>1.2.2
>We use the element to encode illustrations, logos, separating
>lines and ornamental bars. These also tend to appear everywhere in the
>text, and we have thus included the element globally.
>Our guidelines on the encoding of separating lines and ornamental bars are
>as follows:
>"We consider separating lines and ornamental bars as bars that conclude
>preceding textual elements. On title pages is placed between the
>other elements. The same goes for headings; is placed between or
>after headings. When occuring at the end of an act or a scene, is
>placed within the element it concludes. A separating line at the end of the
>last act of a play that concludes the play as a whole, should be placed in
> outside the element. Separating lines appearing in connection
>with songs and poems in plays, should be placed outside the elements."
>(cited from HIW's guidelines on text encoding)
>
>1.2.3
>It would be useful if it was possible to use everywhere. At HIW
>notes are used i.e. to record information between the encoders and thus we
>need to be able to use them everywhere. We have therefore added to
>our global inclusion in the extension files and we suggest that this change
>is included in the TEI Guidelines.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>2 Suggestions for additions
>We suggest that these elements are considered for addition to the TEI
>Guidelines.
>
>2.1 New element:
>HIW has constructed a new element, , for the recording of
>information on printers for use in in and
> in . We find this element useful for information presently
>not covered by any of the excisting TEI elements.
>Here is the element definition:
>
> (#PCDATA | app | hi | corr)* >
>
>
> id ID #IMPLIED
> lang IDREF #IMPLIED
> rend CDATA #IMPLIED
> n CDATA #IMPLIED >
>
>Here is an example of the use of the element in :
>
>
> Henrik Ibsen
> Brand
> Et dramatisk digt
> 2. opplag
>
> Kj?benhavn
> Den Gyldendalske Boghandel (F. Hegel)
> J. H. Schultz
> 1866
>
>
>
>
>2.2
>In the TEI Guidelines there are a few remarks about an element called
> (cf. remarks on and in chapter 35 "Elements"). This
>element is not implemented in the Guidelines, but we think it should be.
>
>In the Ibsen material we have some text witnesses that were printed as
>serials. In these we sometimes have to omit text or illustrations that are
>not part of the text we are transcribing, but that for some reason appear
>in the middle of our text. For these instances we have used a gap element;
> , but we feel that an element would have
>been a better solution. This should then be defined as one of the tags for
>editorial changes along with etc., and it should at least include
>the reason and resp attributes.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>3 Suggestions for changes and additions for chapter 18 "Transcription of
>Primary Sources"
>If there are plans for revising chapter 18 "Transcription of Primary
>Sources", and we hope that there are, we have a couple of proposals for
>additions and changes now, and we would like to contribute with further
>suggestions if given the opportunity on a later occasion.
>
>
>3.1 New element:
>We have constructed an element for a manuscript phenomenon we call
>clarification, that is, when (parts of) words or letters are overwritten
>for the sake of legibility. We record the hand in a hand attribute if this
>is another than the original hand. We also record where the clarifying is
>done with a place attribute, because we have seen that Ibsen on some (rare)
>occasions clarify a word by repeating it somewhere offline (in the margins,
>above the line etc.).
>Here is the element definition:
>
> (#PCDATA | abbr | address | date | dateRange | expan | measure
> | name | num | rs | time | timeRange | add | app | corr
> | damage | del | orig | reg | restore | sic | space | supplied
> | unclear | distinct | emph | foreign | gloss | hi | mentioned
> | soCalled | term | title | ptr | ref | xptr | xref | caesura
> | seg | formula | fw | handShift | bibl | biblFull | biblStruct
> | cit | q | quote | label | list | listBibl | note | witDetail
> | camera | caption | move | sound | tech | view | castList
> | figure | stage | table | text | appSpan |
> clarification | lgSpan | shy | spOpener
> | witEnd | witStart | alt | altGrp | index | join
> | joinGrp | link | linkGrp | timeline | cb | lb | milestone
> | pb | addSpan | delSpan | gap | lacunaEnd | lacunaStart
> | anchor)* >
>
>
> copyOf IDREF #IMPLIED
> corresp IDREFS #IMPLIED
> sameAs IDREF #IMPLIED
> select IDREFS #IMPLIED
> synch IDREFS #IMPLIED
> next IDREF #IMPLIED
> exclude IDREFS #IMPLIED
> prev IDREF #IMPLIED
> id ID #IMPLIED
> lang IDREF #IMPLIED
> rend CDATA #IMPLIED
> n CDATA #IMPLIED
> hand IDREF #IMPLIED
> place CDATA #IMPLIED>
>
>Here is an example of the use of :
>
>illegible
>
>We believe that clarification is a rather common phenomenon in manuscripts,
>and, since it is not covered by the existing TEI Guidelines, that it should
>be included. Others must have handled this problem earlier, and we are
>curious of how they have dealt with this phenomenon.
>
>3.2 The hand attribute
>We have extended the elements , og with the hand attribute
>for use in the transcription of manuscripts because we have learned that
>the phenomena recorded with these elements quite often are added by other
>writers than Ibsen or that they are added with other pens than the first
>pen (and for us this qualifies as another hand). Others working with the
>transcription of manuscripts must have encountered the same as us, and we
>believe that adding a hand attribute to these elements, would be of
>interest to others working with transcription of manuscripts.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>4. Suggestions for additions for chapter 9 "Base Tag Set for Verse"
>We add notation of verse structures on all of Ibsen's verse texts, e.g.
>verse dramas and poems. Main structure, substructures, variations and
>deviations are described for both rhyme and metrical pattern. In doing this
>we have had to expand TEI's tag set for verse.
>
>4.1 New attributes for and
>
>4.1.1 Anacruses:
>The pattern for anacruses (unstressed syllables before the first stressed
>syllable in a verse line) may be varying even though the remaining metrical
>pattern is regular. And the presence of anacruses infer on the counting of
>syllables in the verse lines. Therefore we have found it reasonable to give
>information about anacruses in a separate attribute, called an.
>
>4.1.2 Deviating anacruses, metrics and rhymes: realRhyme="">
>In the TEI Guidelines there is a real attribute intended for notation of
>actual realization or deviation from the main formula described in the met
>attribute. There is no such possibility for the rhyme attribute, although
>this is often necessary. Therefore we have given each of the verse
>attributes such possibilities. We have renamed the real attribute realMet
>and supplied with the similar realRhyme and realAn.
>Here is the element definition of (the definition of has the same
>new attributes as ):
>
> ((argument | byline | dateline | docAuthor | docDate | epigraph
> | head | opener | salute | signed)*, (lb | fw | pb | l | lg | stage
> | appSpan | addSpan | delSpan | anchor | app | add | del
> | clarification | note | figure)+, (byline | closer | dateline
> | epigraph | salute | signed | trailer)*) >
>
>
> copyOf IDREF #IMPLIED
> corresp IDREFS #IMPLIED
> sameAs IDREF #IMPLIED
> select IDREFS #IMPLIED
> synch IDREFS #IMPLIED
> next IDREF #IMPLIED
> exclude IDREFS #IMPLIED
> prev IDREF #IMPLIED
> id ID #IMPLIED
> lang IDREF #IMPLIED
> rend CDATA #IMPLIED
> n CDATA #IMPLIED
> sample (initial | medial | final | unknown | complete) "complete"
> part (Y | N | I | M | F) "N"
> type CDATA #IMPLIED
> org (composite | uniform) "uniform"
> real CDATA #IMPLIED
> met CDATA #IMPLIED
> rhyme CDATA #IMPLIED
> realMet CDATA #IMPLIED
> realRhyme CDATA #IMPLIED
> an CDATA #IMPLIED
> realAn CDATA #IMPLIED
> TEIform CDATA "lg" >
>
>4.1.3 Example
>Here is an example of the new attributes in use:
>
>rhyme="(A b)2">
>
>Nu er det Dagens Trolde,
>Nu er det Livets Larm,
>Som drysser alle de kolde
>R?dsler i min Barm.
> ...
>
>As shown in the example we have also made a system for verse notation of
>(germanic) verse. It would be very useful to have more specific guidelines
>of the detailed verse notation (e.g. the attribute values) in the TEI
>Guidelines. But this is perhaps an issue for TEI P5?
>
>4.2 New elements: ,
>Beneath the title of poems a line with information of the melody for the
>text is often printed/written. There is no appropriate element for such
>information in the TEI Guidelines. We are planning to add a new element
> for this information. may appear inside or
>and contain the elements and (yes, we want to add the
>last element too).
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Hilde B?e
>--------------------------------------------------------
>Research Assistant, Cand.philol.
>Henrik Ibsen's Writings, P.O.Box 1166 Blindern, N-0316 OSLO
>Phone +47 2285 9152 - Fax +47 2285 9169
>URL: http://ibsentexts.hit.uib.no/
>Email: hilde.boe at ibsen.uio.no
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Jan 6 13:16:27 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:16:27 -0500
Subject: NEH grant
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106131227.01d62938@pop3.norton.antivirus>
The TEI received a two-year grant of $131,705 from the National Endowment
for the Humanities, Division of Preservation and Access, in May of
2001. Because the TEI did not, at that point, have IRS certification as a
non-profit corporation, the grant is administered at the University of
Virginia (IRS certification was received in January of 2002). The workplan
and budget for that grant appear below, and will be discussed at the
January 12, 2002 meeting of the TEI Council.
John
------------------------------------------------------------------
Budget and Work-plan Revision for the TEI Consortium project, funded
under Research and Demonstration, Preservation and Access, National
Endowment for the Humanities
Workplan:
Year 1:
1. Guidelines redone in XML, with XML-compliant examples: one full
week of work from each of the two editors. Travel for two editors to one
(week-long) meeting. $5,538.46
2. Develop XSL tools for producing XML and SGML DTDs plus the
guidelines themselves, replacing P1 Snobol tools. One month from Lou
Burnard plus two person-months each from technical staff at Oxford and
Virginia, and technical participation from the TEI executive
director. Travel for all participants to two meetings. $29,928.33
3. Guidelines revised to talk about XML, not just SGML,
throughout. Two months from each of two TEI editors, and two months from
technical writer. No travel. $14,166.67
Contributed: Survey of library, scholarly, and other representative users
who use TEI in SGML, collecting of samples of their work, and selection of
a limited number of projects to participate in the year-two task force on
SGML to XML migration.
Year 2:
4. Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which
selected TEI experts and editors (8 people, total) work closely with
representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings (another
10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools
necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI. One
start-up meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with
project representatives; one final meeting with editors and
experts. Participation from TEI technical writer for four months,
participation of TEI editors and executive director for two months. Travel
to two one-day meetings for 8 people, travel to one two-day meeting for 18
people. $67533.33
5. Specifications for software tools (including a testing suite for
minimal TEI conformance) in response to results of task
force. Specifications generated by TEI editors, travel to one
meeting. $6548.46
Salaries & Wagesyearmonthweek
Steven DeRose, Editor80000.006666.671666.67
Lou Burnard, Editor80000.006666.671666.67
Sebastian Rahtz, Consultant80000.006666.671666.67
Tone Merete Bruvik, Executive Director80000.006666.671666.67
Kirk Hastings, Consultant60000.005000.001250.00
Technical Writer60000.005000.001250.00
1) Implementing ED W69 (before ACH/ALLC 2001)NEHCost SharingTotal
Editors, 2 weeks work1666.671666.673333.33
Travel (include. Expences)4000.004000.00
Subtotal5666.671666.677333.33
2) XSLT tools for DTD & GuidelinesNEHCost SharingTotal
Lou Burnard, 1 month3333.333333.336666.67
Steven DeRose, non0.000.00
Sebastian Rahtz, 1 months6666.676666.67
Kirk Hastings, 1 month5000.005000.00
Executive Director, 1 week1666.671666.67
Travel (include. Expences)11595.0011595.00
Subtotal28261.673333.3331595.00
3) Rewriting the GuidelinesNEHCost SharingTotal
Editors, 2 month6666.676666.6713333.33
Technical Writer, 1.5 months7500.007500.00
Subtotal14166.676666.6720833.33
Project managment
Exec.dir. 1.5 months5000.005000.0010000.00
Subtotal - first year of the project:53095.0016666.6769761.67
4) Task force beginning in May 2002TravelsDaysNEHCost SharingTotal
5 independent persons, report to Tone Merete Bruvik
1 startup meeting, 5 + 1 + 2 = 8 persons x 1 day8.008.00
1 workshop: 5 + 1 + 2 + 10 = 18 persons x 2 day18.0036.00
1 meeting, 5 + 1 + 2 = 8 persons x 1 day8.008.00
Travel:34000.0034000.00
Expences5200.005200.00
Editors, 1.5 month6666.673333.3310000.00
Executive Director, 1.5 month6666.673333.3310000.00
Technical Writer 3 months15000.0015000.00
Subtotal67533.336666.6774200.00
5) Redesigning Pizza Chef
Spec. Editors, 1 week1666.671666.67
Travel (include. Expences)4410.004410.00
Subtotal6076.670.006076.67
Project managment
Exec.dir. 1.5 months5000.005000.0010000.00
Subtotal - second year of the project:78610.0011666.6790276.67
TOTAL131705.0028333.33160038.33
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 04:24:08 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:24:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: New material on DLF website -- SIP Specification Draft (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
SIP is definitely of interest if we are planning to discuss revising TEI
metadata.
> ----- Forwarded by Nancy Elkington/RLG on 04/01/02 15:14 -----
>
>
> Daniel Greenstein
> Sent by: DLF Digital Library Announcements
>
> 28/12/01 20:28
> Please respond to DLF Digital Library Announcements
>
>
> To: DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM
> cc:
> Subject: New material on DLF website
>
>
>
>
> Two new reports are now available from the DLF website.
>
> 1. Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information
> Environment (December 2001). A report by William S. Brockman, Laura
> Neumann, Carole L. Palmer, Tonyia J. Tidline
> http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html
>
> 2. Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0
> DRAFT ? December 19, 2001 (December 2001). A draft proposal developed
> by Harvard University Library as part of its Mellon e-journal
> archiving project. http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf
>
>
> ************
>
> Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information
> Environment http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html). As the
> scholarly information environment changes, so do the needs,
> expectations, and behaviors of users. Assessing and responding to
> those changes is essential for the academic library so that it may
> continue in support of the scholarly mission. The authors of this
> report have formally examined how humanities scholars conduct and
> collate their research. The study was based on a small sample of
> scholars; nonetheless, the results are powerfully suggestive of ways
> in which academic libraries can adapt to and develop in a rapidly
> changing environment. In particular, the findings emphasize how
> important it is for libraries to chart their evolutionary course in
> close consultation with scholarly user communities. This study results
> from the fruitful cross-fertilization between the scholar concerned
> with aspects of information science and the librarian concerned with
> delivering operational information services.
>
>
> Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 DRAFT ?
> December 19, 2001 http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf The
> purpose of the Harvard University E-Journal Archive is to preserve the
> significant intellectual content of journals independent of the form
> in which that content was originally delivered in order to assure that
> this content will be available to the scholarly community for the
> indefinite future. Functionally, the archive is designed to render
> text and still images and other formats as practical with no
> significant loss in intellectual content. The archive reserves the
> right to freely manipulate the internal format of the manifestation
> over time as long as the plain meaning of the intellectual content is
> preserved. The framework for discussing the architecture and operation
> of the archive is provided by the Open Archival Information System
> (OAIS) Reference Model. Under the OAIS model, material from a content
> provider is transmitted to the archive in a form called a Submission
> Information Package (SIP). The format of the SIP acceptable to the
> Harvard archive is described normatively by this specification.
From tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no Mon Jan 7 04:54:22 2002
From: tone.bruvik at hit.uib.no (Tone Merete Bruvik)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:54:22 +0100
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
In-Reply-To: <20020106185520.GM1048@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID:
Dear council,
I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I
have not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at
the last minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your
agenda for the meeting, and it might be in that connection John was
expecting me in London.
Please let me say a few words about the project, and please observe
that the links John send you are outdated:
Together with Peter Robinson, I am writing an EU proposal for a
project called ESTATE. We would like to ask the council to write a
letter of recommendation for this project, and more specific to put
set up one or two working groups that will partly be sponsored by the
ESTATE project:
- TEI workgroup on primary text cataloguing, in the areas of
incunables and documentary texts (letters, historical documents,
etc.). This will build on the MASTER standard and recommendations
from the TEI work group for the Description of Medieval and
Renaissance Manuscripts, which already provides most of the elements
and structure needed for such encoding.
- TEI workgroup on primary text representation, in the form of
transcriptions and editions of the texts themselves. This workgroup
will focus particularly on the problems posed by 'genetic texts':
authorial manuscripts showing many overlays of revision.
The ESTATE project will found the participation from the partners in
the ESTATE project, but the workgroups will be under TEI control and
may last longer than the 24 months we are planning for the ESTATE
project.
You may found more information about the ESTATE project at:
http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/
The user name is "ESTATE", and the password "estate"
Please look in the part C of the proposal
(http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ESTATE_C.html) to find the list
of partners (the http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html is
outdated) You will se from the list of partners that two of the
participants at the London meeting, are also involved: Matthew
Driscoll and Lou Burnard.
You will also see that the proposal is currently a draft, and the
council may need further information in order to decide if you would
like to support this proposal. The deadline for the proposal is the
last week of February.
Any comments and suggestions from the council and its members to the
proposal are of course very welcome.
Your sincerely
Tone Merete Bruvik
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 08:54:46 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:54:46 -0500
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020107085335.00cfad20@jefferson.village.virginia.edu>
At 10:54 AM 1/7/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Dear council,
>
>I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I have
>not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at the last
>minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your agenda for the
>meeting, and it might be in that connection John was expecting me in London.
My mistake--I guess I assumed you'd be there. Sorry we won't see you, and
thanks for the update on ESTATE.
John
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 12:12:37 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:12:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: New revision of P4X now available
Message-ID:
In preparation for the first meeting of the TEI Council at the end of this
week, the TEI editors (in particular Syd) have been hard at work fixing
hundreds of minor errors in the text of TEI P4, the XML edition of the
Guidelines.
The newly revised text, together with updated versions of the TEI DTDs, is
now available for comment. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/ for an
overview of the current status, with links to both HTML and PDF versions
of the text. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/DTD/ to get copies of the most
recent version of the DTDs.
Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 13:43:42 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:43:42 -0500
Subject: New revision of P4X now available
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107134255.01d2fcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Lou,
Is there an easy way to provide a single PDF of the current state of P4 for
downloading, for those who want to carry an electronic copy to the meeting?
John
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Jan 7 14:09:25 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:09:25 +0000
Subject: New revision of P4X now available
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107134255.01d2fcb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020107190925.GB367@smtp.ntlworld.com>
On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 01:43:42PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
>
> Is there an easy way to provide a single PDF of the current state of P4 for
> downloading, for those who want to carry an electronic copy to the meeting?
already there, as http://www.hcu.ox.ac.uk/TEI/P4X/driver.pdf
we may bring along from Oxford half a dozen CDs of the latest incarnation,
for those who don't have one already (although of course this CD
will be just that little bit better than the one from Pisa....)
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Jan 7 17:20:09 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:20:09 -0800
Subject: New material on DLF website -- SIP Specification Draft (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020107080446.05f02b10@notes.rlg.org>
If folks want to familiarize themselves with the concepts outlined by the
OAIS, including the SIP, I suggest the following document.
http://www.rlg.org/longterm/attributes01.pdf (see Appendix A, p. 43)
I think that the TEI could be one component of a SIP, or Submission
Information Package, that would go to an Open Archival Information System,
or an OAIS (according to the OAIS Referrence Model). But because each
community defines its own SIP, this is probably an area that the TEI as an
organization needs to have some awareness and not an area where we need to
set policy.
Best,
Merrilee
At 09:24 AM 1/7/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>SIP is definitely of interest if we are planning to discuss revising TEI
>metadata.
>
>
> > ----- Forwarded by Nancy Elkington/RLG on 04/01/02 15:14 -----
> >
> >
> > Daniel Greenstein
> > Sent by: DLF Digital Library Announcements
> >
> > 28/12/01 20:28
> > Please respond to DLF Digital Library Announcements
> >
> >
> > To: DLFANNOUNCE-L at LISTSERV.CDINET.COM
> > cc:
> > Subject: New material on DLF website
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Two new reports are now available from the DLF website.
> >
> > 1. Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information
> > Environment (December 2001). A report by William S. Brockman, Laura
> > Neumann, Carole L. Palmer, Tonyia J. Tidline
> > http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html
> >
> > 2. Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0
> > DRAFT ? December 19, 2001 (December 2001). A draft proposal developed
> > by Harvard University Library as part of its Mellon e-journal
> > archiving project. http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf
> >
> >
> > ************
> >
> > Scholarly Work in the Humanities and the Evolving Information
> > Environment http://www.clir.org/pubs/abstract/pub104abst.html). As the
> > scholarly information environment changes, so do the needs,
> > expectations, and behaviors of users. Assessing and responding to
> > those changes is essential for the academic library so that it may
> > continue in support of the scholarly mission. The authors of this
> > report have formally examined how humanities scholars conduct and
> > collate their research. The study was based on a small sample of
> > scholars; nonetheless, the results are powerfully suggestive of ways
> > in which academic libraries can adapt to and develop in a rapidly
> > changing environment. In particular, the findings emphasize how
> > important it is for libraries to chart their evolutionary course in
> > close consultation with scholarly user communities. This study results
> > from the fruitful cross-fertilization between the scholar concerned
> > with aspects of information science and the librarian concerned with
> > delivering operational information services.
> >
> >
> > Submission Information Package (SIP) Specification Version 1.0 DRAFT ?
> > December 19, 2001 http://www.diglib.org/preserve/harvardsip10.pdf The
> > purpose of the Harvard University E-Journal Archive is to preserve the
> > significant intellectual content of journals independent of the form
> > in which that content was originally delivered in order to assure that
> > this content will be available to the scholarly community for the
> > indefinite future. Functionally, the archive is designed to render
> > text and still images and other formats as practical with no
> > significant loss in intellectual content. The archive reserves the
> > right to freely manipulate the internal format of the manifestation
> > over time as long as the plain meaning of the intellectual content is
> > preserved. The framework for discussing the architecture and operation
> > of the archive is provided by the Open Archival Information System
> > (OAIS) Reference Model. Under the OAIS model, material from a content
> > provider is transmitted to the archive in a form called a Submission
> > Information Package (SIP). The format of the SIP acceptable to the
> > Harvard archive is described normatively by this specification.
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Jan 7 18:06:49 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 00:06:49 +0100
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020106120431.01d58bd0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C3A3819.27889.295DD4F@localhost>
Sorry if my last email has been misleading: I won't be able to come to the meeting.
Fotis Jannidis
Date sent: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:05:08 -0500
To: TEI Council
From: John Unsworth
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
Copies to: TEI Board
Send reply to: tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu
> A few reminders, concerning the upcoming TEI Council Meeting:
>
> Attendees:
>
> The following thirteen people have said they expect to attend this meeting:
> Syd Bauman, editor
> Lou Burnard, editor
> Tone Merete Bruvik, executive director
> Matthew Driscoll
> David Durand
> Fotis Jannidis (?)
> Merrilee Proffitt
> Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative
> Geoff Rockwell
> Laurent Romary (arriving late)
> John Unsworth, Chair
> Perry Willett
> Christian Wittern
>
> The following two people have said they will not be able to attend:
> David Birnbaum
> Tomaz Erjavec
>
> If this information is incorrect, please let me know.
>
>
> Time and Place:
>
> The meeting will take place on January 12th (Saturday), beginning at 9:00
> a.m., at King's College, London, in Room 27C (or Committee Room), Main
> Building, Strand Campus, Strand, London WC2. I expect our meeting to last
> the better part of the day, but probably not all of the
> afternoon. Last-minute agenda items should be sent to me, if you have any
> to suggest (the agenda as it currently stands is given below).
>
>
> Lodging:
>
> If you haven't arranged lodging, you may still want to consult the web page
> that Harold Short put up on this topic, which can be found at
> http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/tei/
>
>
> Comments on P4 Draft:
>
> On December 4th and 5th, respectively, I sent mail to TEI-L and to
> Humanist, soliciting final comments on the P4 draft guidelines, to be sent
> to me or to the editors by December 31st. One set of comments was sent to
> TEI-L by Hilde Be, Ellen Nessheim and Stine Brenna Taugbl for Henrik
> Ibsen's Writings, and I will shortly forward a copy to the Council, to make
> sure you have it. I haven't received any comments directly, but I expect
> to receive some shortly from David Seaman, which I will also send to the
> Council as soon as I have them. If the editors or individual Council
> members have received (or generated) comments, these should be forwarded to
> the Council by email as soon as possible, so that we all have a complete
> set, and time to digest them before the meeting.
>
>
> Agenda:
>
> 1. Charge to the Council from the Board, rules of operation for the
> Council. Information pertinent to this item can be found in the bylaws, at
> http://www.tei-c.org/Consortium/TEIby-A6.html
>
> 2. A review of P4 and the comments of end-users. The draft guidelines are
> at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/.
>
> 3. Workgroups needed; funding available for needed workgroups.
>
> 4. the NEH grant (a copy of that, with budget, will be sent to the Council
> shortly in another email).
>
> 5. The ESTATE project: letter of recommendation and workgroups related to
> ESTATE. A draft of the ESTATE proposal is available on the web at
> http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/ESTATE_2.PDF, and a description of the
> partners is at http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html (no "n" in
> that filename...).
>
> If there are other items that should be added to the agenda, please let me
> know.
>
>
> See you in just under a week,
>
> John
>
>
>
> Past proceedings of this email list
> (tei-council at lists.village.virginia.edu) are archived on the web at
> http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/. This URL is
> password-protected: if you've
> forgotten the username/password, contact John Unsworth at jmu2m at virginia.edu
>
From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 19:20:58 2002
From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern)
Date: 08 Jan 2002 09:20:58 +0900
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Dear colleagues,
Just a short comment on Tone Meretes suggestions:
Within the Sinologist research communities across the Pacific Rim
(that is Taiwan, China, the United States and Japan), there has been
some effort to establish a standard for the exchange of metadata of
stone rubbings, bronze inscriptions and eventually also manuscript
data.
This effort has been stalled recently for a number of reasons,
not the least of them political. I think it would benefit both these
researchers and the TEI to try to integrate these efforts with the
ongoing manuscript description TEI modules.
I wonder what the council members think about this and whether it
seems worth to pursue. A follow up question would then be whether
this could fit in with ESTATE and the WG's suggested by Tone Merete,
or whether some separate WG would prove more efficient.
All the best,
Christian Wittern
Tone Merete Bruvik writes:
> [1 ]
> Dear council,
>
> I did not think I was supposed to attend the London meeting, and as I
> have not book a ticket it would be very difficult for me to join at
> the last minute. But, I asked John to put the ESTATE item on your
> agenda for the meeting, and it might be in that connection John was
> expecting me in London.
>
> Please let me say a few words about the project, and please observe
> that the links John send you are outdated:
>
> Together with Peter Robinson, I am writing an EU proposal for a
> project called ESTATE. We would like to ask the council to write a
> letter of recommendation for this project, and more specific to put
> set up one or two working groups that will partly be sponsored by the
> ESTATE project:
>
> - TEI workgroup on primary text cataloguing, in the areas of
> incunables and documentary texts (letters, historical documents,
> etc.). This will build on the MASTER standard and recommendations
> from the TEI work group for the Description of Medieval and
> Renaissance Manuscripts, which already provides most of the elements
> and structure needed for such encoding.
>
> - TEI workgroup on primary text representation, in the form of
> transcriptions and editions of the texts themselves. This workgroup
> will focus particularly on the problems posed by 'genetic texts':
> authorial manuscripts showing many overlays of revision.
>
> The ESTATE project will found the participation from the partners in
> the ESTATE project, but the workgroups will be under TEI control and
> may last longer than the 24 months we are planning for the ESTATE
> project.
>
> You may found more information about the ESTATE project at:
>
> http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/
>
> The user name is "ESTATE", and the password "estate"
>
> Please look in the part C of the proposal
> (http://helmer.hit.uib.no/xml/ESTATE/ESTATE_C.html) to find the list
> of partners (the http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/ESTATE/parters.html is
> outdated) You will se from the list of partners that two of the
> participants at the London meeting, are also involved: Matthew
> Driscoll and Lou Burnard.
>
> You will also see that the proposal is currently a draft, and the
> council may need further information in order to decide if you would
> like to support this proposal. The deadline for the proposal is the
> last week of February.
>
> Any comments and suggestions from the council and its members to the
> proposal are of course very welcome.
>
> Your sincerely
> Tone Merete Bruvik
> [2 ]
>
--
Christian Wittern
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN
From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 19:26:51 2002
From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern)
Date: 08 Jan 2002 09:26:51 +0900
Subject: Workgroup for recommendations on character set issues needed
Message-ID:
Dear council members,
Since this past July, I have been charged with an interim working group and
the task of reviewing the recommendations related to character sets
and character usage in the TEI Guidelines. At the Pisa meeting, I
made a preliminary report on the WG's progress and expressed the hope
that the council would consider officially establishing this WG with
an expanded list of work items to consider for P5.
I would like to suggest this as one point for discussion under the
agenda item 3.
All the best,
Christian Wittern
--
Christian Wittern
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN
From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Mon Jan 7 20:30:56 2002
From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern)
Date: 08 Jan 2002 10:30:56 +0900
Subject: New revision of P4X now available
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Lou,
I just checked the status of Chapter 4, it seems to be unchanged. Is
there anything I can do to improve this? If I remember correctly, in
Pisa we agreed that this would be a showstopper for P4.
All the best,
Christian
Lou Burnard writes:
> In preparation for the first meeting of the TEI Council at the end of this
> week, the TEI editors (in particular Syd) have been hard at work fixing
> hundreds of minor errors in the text of TEI P4, the XML edition of the
> Guidelines.
>
> The newly revised text, together with updated versions of the TEI DTDs, is
> now available for comment. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/ for an
> overview of the current status, with links to both HTML and PDF versions
> of the text. Visit http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/DTD/ to get copies of the most
> recent version of the DTDs.
>
> Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman
>
>
>
--
Christian Wittern
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 7 21:59:08 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:59:08 -0500
Subject: Jan. 12 meeting reminder, details, agenda
In-Reply-To: <3C3A3819.27889.295DD4F@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020107215823.01d1cf30@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 12:06 AM 1/8/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>Sorry if my last email has been misleading: I won't be able to come to the
>meeting.
I wasn't sure--and I couldn't find a definitive answer in my old
email. Thanks for the clarification.
John
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 8 18:20:00 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:20:00 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: P4X revision: charactersets
Message-ID:
Although we have made substantial progress in other respects, there
remain many minor details and one or two larger parts of the text of
P4X which, in the opinion of the editors, are not yet ready for pub-
lication. The current chapter 4 (Character Sets) is one such, on which
the Council's opinion is particularly sought.
The provisional working group chaired by Chris Wittern worked under
excessive pressure and with exemplary speed to produce a preliminary draft
last November; after some discussion with the group, we agreed to revise
their draft over the Christmas break but regrettably have so far been
unable to carry out this task, nor do we honestly expect to be able to
make much progress before the Council meets. For that reason, the current
P4X text has not changed since the version distributed in Pisa.
It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a
point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at
http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of
the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or
http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed
discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is,
regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for
publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to
delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter.
We would like to continue the work already begun to that end, in
consultation with Chris and the rest of the group, and hope that the
Council will agree that this should be given high priority.
Lou and Syd
From Laurent.Romary at loria.fr Wed Jan 9 03:54:39 2002
From: Laurent.Romary at loria.fr (Laurent Romary)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:54:39 +0100
Subject: P4X revision: charactersets
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3C3C054F.D17B0F2E@loria.fr>
Hi Lou,
I have printed the two things and will work on it before Saturday.
See you in London
Laurent
Lou Burnard a *crit :
> Although we have made substantial progress in other respects, there
> remain many minor details and one or two larger parts of the text of
> P4X which, in the opinion of the editors, are not yet ready for pub-
> lication. The current chapter 4 (Character Sets) is one such, on which
> the Council's opinion is particularly sought.
>
> The provisional working group chaired by Chris Wittern worked under
> excessive pressure and with exemplary speed to produce a preliminary draft
> last November; after some discussion with the group, we agreed to revise
> their draft over the Christmas break but regrettably have so far been
> unable to carry out this task, nor do we honestly expect to be able to
> make much progress before the Council meets. For that reason, the current
> P4X text has not changed since the version distributed in Pisa.
>
> It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a
> point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at
> http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of
> the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or
> http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed
> discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is,
> regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for
> publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to
> delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter.
>
> We would like to continue the work already begun to that end, in
> consultation with Chris and the rest of the group, and hope that the
> Council will agree that this should be given high priority.
>
> Lou and Syd
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From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Wed Jan 9 04:32:28 2002
From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern)
Date: 09 Jan 2002 18:32:28 +0900
Subject: P4X revision: charactersets
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Dear Council members,
Looking at the links that Lou gave in this message, I realized that
the HTML version of our draft was difficult to read because some of
the notes appeared inline, others at the end. I have now made a new
version of the document that gets rid of this problem. I have made it
available at
http://www.kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~wittern/tei/p4rev-chap4.html
Except for this minor technical issue, it is unchanged from the
document submitted to the TEI Editors in November. Apologies for any
inconvenience caused by this oversight.
All the best,
Christian Wittern
Lou Burnard writes:
> It would therefore be much appreciated if Council members could make a
> point of reviewing the draft produced by the workgroup, (available at
> http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/Status/p2chrev.html) and the current state of
> the P4X chapter (available at http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.pdf or
> http://www.tei-c.org/P4X/CH.html), so that we may have an informed
> discussion of this topic at the meeting. The editors' view is,
> regretfully, that neither of the current drafts is appropriate for
> publication in their present form, and that therefore we will have to
> delay publication of P4X until further work has been done on this chapter.
--
Christian Wittern
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jan 11 10:19:16 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:19:16 +0100
Subject: question
Message-ID: <3C3F1084.28710.1FC02D4@localhost>
Hello,
maybe this is something for the agenda tomorrow:
A group of German historians are considering to develop a dtd for the transcription of historical sources. They want to collaborate with the TEI.
As far as I can see, this is very much in the beginning, but it poses a general question: how to cooperate in the most fruitful way. Is the TEI generally trying to cooperate as
closely as possible in order to incorporate special demands like this into the TEI recommendations?
They asked me some special questions which I have to forward to you:
- How are new working groups established?
- Is there a level of discussion of TEI extensions more formally than the discussion lists, but not as formally as the working groups?
As the proposed work is rather in the domain of the TEI section on the "Transcription of Primary Sources" I guess they also want to know how to cooperate with a working
group.
A more general idea in this context: Should the TEI offer to host extensions to the TEI (which use the extension mechanism) which have been developed by some project?
In projects like perl the module archive does offer everybody working with perl access to tested code and some modules are becoming part of the standard distribution after
a while. On the other side: Maybe the extensions are most of the time so specific that they wouldn't be worthwhile sharing.
Best wishes for the meeting.
Fotis Jannidis
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Jan 14 12:42:58 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:42:58 -0500
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114113055.01c67f70@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Dear Council and Board members:
The TEI Council met for the first time on January 12th, 2002, in London,
at Kings' College. The TEI Consortium is grateful for Board member Harold
Short's assistance in arranging for the meeting venue. This is an interim
and summary report on the meeting and its results, written on the plane on
the way home, from the Chair's memory and notes: official minutes (taken by
Geoff Rockwell, with corroborating notes by Merrilee Proffitt) will be
posted to the Council for corrections and approval within the week, and
added to the members' web site within two weeks. If those minutes differ
from what follows in any particular, the minutes should be considered the
authoritative record.
Attending:
Syd Bauman, editor
Lou Burnard, editor
Matthew Driscoll
David Durand
Merrilee Proffitt
Sebastian Rahtz, Board representative
Geoff Rockwell
Laurent Romary
John Unsworth, Chair
Perry Willett
Christian Wittern
Unable to Attend:
David Birnbaum
Tomaz Erjavec
Fotis Jannidis
The Council met from 9 a.m. until 4 p.m., with two breaks totalling less
than half an hour. Discussions were animated but cordial, and very productive.
Agenda items and results:
1. Charge to the Council from the Board--areas of responsibility and rules
of operation.
Bylaws Article VI, section 2, were reviewed and read aloud.
2. Review of P4 and the comments of end users
P4 will include the description of tag contexts (parents, children, etc.)
in each tag description, as in P3.
Editors will revise Chapter 4 (character sets) in light of the report of
the Character Encoding workgroup, and circulate the revision to the Council
and the workgroup for comment, within the next few weeks.
Chapter 2 (Gentle introduuction to XML) needs and will receive further
revision.
Editors will spell out in the chapter on linking the officially sanctioned,
entity-based strategy for XML references to URLs, but will also note an
unofficial but sensible strategy for direct XML reference, in an attribute
value, for those not using catalogues.
Print-on-Demand pricing for P4 is now urgently needed. If David Seaman is
unable to procure a quote, the Chair will pursue one separately. When such
a quote is available, the Council will discuss the size of a hard-bound
print run for P4, by email.
3. Future direction of P5
P5 will not necessarily be tied to SGML support.
P5 should probably include the ODD facilities that the editors use to
produce the TEI guidelines and DTD--in other words, should incorporate and
document the ODD DTD
P5 should extend the work of the Character Set working group, in particular
addressing XML:Lang and TEI:Lang
P5 should have a well understood and clearly articulated strategy for
adopting, supplementing, and referencing other relevant standards.
Character encoding and linking, schemas, and metadata were some areas where
the Council needs to decide a strategy in this regard.
The Council decided that it should, in effect, consider itself a workgroup
for the purpose of addressing some key strategic and infrastructural issues
in planning for P5, for example schemas, DTDs, namespaces. The Council
also decided not to turn to those issues until P4 was put to bed, some time
this spring. [From discussions subsequent to the meeting, and the Chair's
own autocratic scheduling impulse: When the Council does begin discussion
of these issues, probably some time in April, we will ask Perry Willett to
host regular conference calls, and we will endeavor to provide a
preliminary overview of the issues to the Board's May meeting.]
In the course of this discussion it became clear that not all Council
members are subscribers or constituents of member institutions, and
therefore haven't had access to the "members only" section of the web
site. The Chair will propose to the Board that they be given that access
in order to facilitate their work.
The Council agreed to discuss Fotis Jannidis' query about cooperation with
other groups (in this case, historians) by email, over the coming weeks,
and to treat it as a particular instance of a general case.
4. Workgroups needed, and funding available
Christian Wittern will continue the current workgroup on Character Encoding
for long enough to review the revision of P4, chapter 4 (to be completed in
a matter of weeks). He is then appointed by the Council to establish a new
workgroup, with a budget of $8,000, to address character set and language
issues for P5. That workgroup will provide an interim report to the Board
meeting in May, a draft report to the Members' meeting in October, and a
final report to the next Council meeting in January of 2003 (possibly to be
held in Washington, D.C.).
David Durand will establish a workgroup on linking, with the same budget
and schedule as the Character Encoding workgroup.
The Council will review EDW54, a document written by Michael
Sperberg-McQueen to detail the rights and responsibilities of
workgroups. Comments and revision will be done by email, by the end of
January. A preliminary review of the document at the meeting suggested
that it was useful and relevant, and would need relatively little updating.
The Chair will draft a release to be signed by members of future
workgroups, granting the TEI Consortium a perpetual, non-exclusive license
to intellectual property such members might produce in the course of their
work for the TEI, and agreeing to have that work edited by the TEI editors
before it is included in TEI publications.
Workgroup issues raised by the NEH grant were referred to that agenda item
(next). Future workgroups are treated under the discussion of the Estate
proposal (item 6, below).
Standard term for a workgroup will be one year, renewable. Standard
practice will be to appoint a chair, perhaps recommending some members but
not mandating them, and providing a budget rather than dictating a number
of participants or meetings. Workgroups should hold at least one physical
meeting, and must report at least once, during the year.
5. NEH grant
The Council reviewed the history and the revised plan of work, schedule,
and budget of the NEH grant-funded project on XMLization of the
TEI. [Though this was not discussed, the Chair remarks that we should
probably change the PI for this grant from Steve DeRose to John Unsworth,
given that Steve is not at present a TEI editor, and the grant now resides
at Virginia.] Good progress has been made on this project, and some work
still needs to be billed, especially by Oxford: Oxford was reminded that
federal monies have a tendency to revert to the funder if they are not
spent within the term of the grant. The work remaining is principally
focused on the migration of existing TEI/SGML resources into XML, and the
provision of documentation, methods, and tools for that migration. This
work is to be carried out by a workgroup consisting of six experts,
consulting with ten representatives of large holdings, and with the
assistance of the TEI technical writer (at Oxford). The Council agreed
that the Chair should ask John Price-Wilkin to chair the experts workgroup,
and the Council generated a list of names to suggest to John, should he
accept, for membership of both the workgroup and the users group.
6. The Estate Project
The Council recognized the usefulness of the Estate proposal to the TEI
Consortium, especially as it promises to provide funding for an expanded
training regimen. The Council also recognized that the Consortium should
have some published description and standard rules for this sort of
collaboration, spelling out how to approach the Consortium for partnership
in grant proposals, how to ensure necessary intellectual and technical
control for the Council in collaborative projects, etc.. Many of these
issues will be handled by the subcommittee on consulting and services (see
below); for matters pertaining specifically to the Estate proposal, the
Chair will email Tone Merete Bruvik in the next week, to request some
clarifications and perhaps some minor revisions.
The Council is particularly pleased to note that the two workgroups likely
to be called into being if the Estate proposal is successful correspond
closely to the Council's next two area of interests, after Character
Encoding and Linking, namely Metadata and Transcription of Primary Sources.
7. Training and services
Geoff Rockwell, Sebastian Rahtz, and Perry Willett will form a subcommittee
on training. In time for the May meeting of the Board, they will survey
existing TEI training (including the materials used in that training) and
recommend a course of action for the TEI with respect to training. A
number of options were discussed, and the subcommittee was advised to
invite Julia Flanders (recently charged by the Board with investigating
training) to be a part of their discussion.
Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary will form a
subcommittee on consulting and certification, to investigate costs,
benefits, and parallels in the area of data validation, software
certification and test suites, TEI developer sites, etc.. They will also
make a recommendation to the Board by the time of its May meeting.
The Council recommended trademarking the name "Text Encoding Initiative" so
that it would be protected, if we do end up using it for certifying
training or services. The Chair will pursue that, with lawyers he knows
only too well.
----------------------
John Unsworth
Chair, TEI Council
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Jan 15 18:25:35 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:25:35 -0500
Subject: expenses for the meeting
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020115182402.01c67818@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Council members and editors who attended the London meeting, January 12th,
should submit expenses to Tone Merete Bruvik, using the "travel
reimbursement form" found at:
http://www.hit.uib.no/TEI/
(toward the bottom of the page, either in PDF or Excel). The mailing
address is on the form--
John
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Jan 16 07:29:14 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:29:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114113055.01c67f70@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> Dear Council and Board members:
>
> The TEI Council met for the first time on January 12th, 2002, in London,
> at Kings' College. The TEI Consortium is grateful for Board member Harold
> Short's assistance in arranging for the meeting venue. This is an interim
> and summary report on the meeting and its results, written on the plane on
> the way home, from the Chair's memory and notes: official minutes (taken by
> Geoff Rockwell, with corroborating notes by Merrilee Proffitt) will be
> posted to the Council for corrections and approval within the week, and
> added to the members' web site within two weeks. If those minutes differ
> from what follows in any particular, the minutes should be considered the
> authoritative record.
>
Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO
WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me!
I intend to post a brief announcement to the effect that the meeting took
place NOW, and would like to include in it a link to John's preliminary
summary of the business transacted (to which I have allocated the
number TCM00). The official minutes, when they appear, will be flagged as
such, and should by the way have document number TCM01.
Lou
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 10:12:31 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:12:31 -0500
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116101123.01d28478@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Lou says:
>Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO
>WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me!
>
>I intend to post a brief announcement to the effect that the meeting took
>place NOW, and would like to include in it a link to John's preliminary
>summary of the business transacted (to which I have allocated the
>number TCM00). The official minutes, when they appear, will be flagged as
>such, and should by the way have document number TCM01.
That's fine with me, unless anyone sees some glaring error of fact, or
omission, in my summary.
J.
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 14:38:24 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:38:24 -0500
Subject: JPW
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116143747.01d459b8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
I've written to John Price-Wilkin to invite him to chair the XML-migration
workgroup; I'll let you know what he says.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 15:18:16 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:18:16 -0500
Subject: Council's questions for the Board
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Two questions for decision by the Board emerged from the TEI Council
meeting last Saturday: please vote yes or no on each question.
1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of
the TEI web site?
The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council
might well need in order to do its job. The argument against was less
clear to me, at least--but I think it turned on the fact that TEI Council
members don't necessarily have to be subscribers or constituents of member
institutions.
2. Should the TEI trademark its name?
The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of
services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking
would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the
Consortium. I've a query into the lawyer here about whether he might help
with this, but I also know that it can be done online, at a cost of about $125.
So, please register an opinion on each question. Thanks,
John
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Jan 16 15:22:31 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:22:31 -0500
Subject: EDW54 (please review)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI
workgroups), which can be found at:
http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm
We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within
the week.
John
From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Jan 17 03:51:47 2002
From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:51:47 +0100 (MET)
Subject: EDW54 (please review)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <200201170851.JAA17697@obelix.ijs.si>
John Unsworth writes:
> Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI
> workgroups), which can be found at:
> http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm
> We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within
> the week.
Mostly changes to do with the restructuring as a consortium:
1. The preamble obviously needs to be changed.
2. Everywhere "TEI executive committee" and "TRC" should be changed to
"TEI-C Council"
3. Does "(TEI central) secretariat" still exist or should it be changed
to (TEI-C) secretary"?
4 "TEI participants" to "TEI-C members" (& board?) (&other WG members?)
5. I guess it should be stated whether members/heads of WGs have to be
members of the consortium, and, like the council, whether they have
access to the members' web space. I'd suggest no and yes.
6. SGML to XML...
Best,
Tomaz
--
Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8
email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan"
www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana
fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 04:34:37 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:34:37 +0000
Subject: Council's questions for the Board
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020117093437.GB15931@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 03:18:16PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
> meeting last Saturday: please vote yes or no on each question.
>
> 1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of
> the TEI web site?
no.
> The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council
> might well need in order to do its job.
in which case it should be in another area of the web site
why set up a mechanism of membership and then immediately disregard it?
> 2. Should the TEI trademark its name?
>
> The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of
> services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking
> would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the
> Consortium.
no. its too culture-specific to spend the TEIC money on more and
more lawyers. as Jan says, can we afford to bring a case? no. so why
bother?
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Jan 17 10:38:52 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:38:52 -0800
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117073829.00a8fdb8@notes.rlg.org>
At 10:12 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
>Lou says:
>
>>Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO
>>WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me!
Well, no, it's not web time, but is this so pressing that we cannot have
some time to review the minutes (that we haven't even seen)?
If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I
would add that the council was going to take a week to review the document
and give real, considered feedback on the proposal through John. The two
workgroups that Estate would deal with are transcription and description,
which were number 4 and 5 on our enumerated list -- metadata is not
included, I believe (but then again, I can't print out and read the project
description until tomorrow).
I think John did a good thing by posting a meeting summary for the board
and council, and this serves the group that is on an immediate-need-to-know
basis. I am not in favor of posting unofficial minutes to the web site
without review. I am in favor of having some short deadlines so that the
documents do not languish. The world can wait two weeks.
Merrilee
Merrilee Proffitt
Research Libraries Group -- www.rlg.org
1200 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041 USA
voice: +1-650-691-2309 -- mgp at notes.rlg.org
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 11:12:13 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:12:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117073829.00a8fdb8@notes.rlg.org>
Message-ID:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2002, Merrilee Proffitt wrote:
> At 10:12 AM 1/16/2002 -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
> >Lou says:
> >
> >>Is it really necessary to delay adding these notes to the website for TWO
> >>WEEKS? That hardly sounds like web-time to me!
>
> Well, no, it's not web time, but is this so pressing that we cannot have
> some time to review the minutes (that we haven't even seen)?
The formal; minutes is not the same as a brief summary/press release
stating that the meeting occurred and a broad outline of what was
discussed. I would like to be able to post such a thing on the website
immediately after all TEI events (cf the Pisa Members meeting)
>
> If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I
> would add that the council was going to take a week to review the document
> and give real, considered feedback on the proposal through John. The two
> workgroups that Estate would deal with are transcription and description,
> which were number 4 and 5 on our enumerated list -- metadata is not
> included, I believe (but then again, I can't print out and read the project
> description until tomorrow).
I'm sure the Minutes when they appear will address this.
>
> I think John did a good thing by posting a meeting summary for the board
> and council, and this serves the group that is on an immediate-need-to-know
> basis.
Do you agree draft minutes should go to the membership? If not, how do we
make good our promise to allow them access to pre-release drafts of all
TEI documents?
> I am not in favor of posting unofficial minutes to the web site
> without review. I am in favor of having some short deadlines so that the
> documents do not languish. The world can wait two weeks.
>
> Merrilee
>
> Merrilee Proffitt
> Research Libraries Group -- www.rlg.org
> 1200 Villa Street, Mountain View, CA 94041 USA
> voice: +1-650-691-2309 -- mgp at notes.rlg.org
>
>
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Jan 17 13:14:40 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:14:40 -0800
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117100641.04376ea8@notes.rlg.org>
I think there is a big difference between circulating a summary via email
and posting a detailed (but unapproved) summary on a web site where it
becomes an official TEI document. Possibly, you could route an email to
the members simply that the meeting occurred; saying who attended the
meeting; giving the major topics covered (but not outcomes); and when the
meeting minutes will be available. Hopefully this would allow us to appear
responsive and demonstrate that progress is being made, without sacrificing
accuracy.
[Merrilee]
> > If we are correcting things for the record, under the Estate section, I
> > would add [...snip]
[Lou responds]
>I'm sure the Minutes when they appear will address this.
Well, that's what I am getting at! There are small errors that give the
wrong impression, and yet this document will be given the same treatment as
the actual minutes. Who will go back and read the minutes after this has
been posted?
I'd like to hear what others think.
Merrilee
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 17 13:32:48 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:32:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Council meeting, January 12, 2002
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020117100641.04376ea8@notes.rlg.org>
Message-ID:
I have just updated the website with a much abbreviated and I think
fairly uncontroversial announcement of the London proceedings which
I hope no-one, not even Merrilee, could possibly take for official or
unofficial minutes of the proceedings!
http://www.tei-c.org/Publicity/postLondon.txt
is the URL, and there is a link to it from the top level index page of
the website. I took the opportunity also to move the link to the
members list up the page while I was at it, as suggested on Saturday.
Lou
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Jan 17 15:57:53 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 21:57:53 +0100
Subject: Council's questions for the Board
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116151205.01d44fb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C4748E1.23434.20F4FD7@localhost>
From: John Unsworth
> 1. Should TEI Council members have access to the Members-only section of
> the TEI web site?
> The argument in favor is that there is information there that the Council
> might well need in order to do its job. The argument against was less
> clear to me, at least--but I think it turned on the fact that TEI Council
> members don't necessarily have to be subscribers or constituents of member
> institutions.
This comes down to the question whether TEI council members should be personally or via their organization members of the consortium, doesn't it. I think they should - at
least as long as individual membership is priced as it is now.
> 2. Should the TEI trademark its name?
>
> The question arose in connection with the discussion of certification of
> services, validation of data, etc., and the argument was that trademarking
> would protect "The Text Encoding Initiative" as a label controlled by the
> Consortium. I've a query into the lawyer here about whether he might help
> with this, but I also know that it can be done online, at a cost of about $125.
Yes, it should. In Germany at least names protected as trade marks will always have their way (legally) in questions like domain names etc.
Fotis Jannidis
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 17 18:00:36 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:00:36 -0500
Subject: Council's questions for the Board
In-Reply-To: <3C4748E1.23434.20F4FD7@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020117174119.01ccc9d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 09:57 PM 1/17/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>This comes down to the question whether TEI council members should be
>personally or via their organization members of the consortium, doesn't
>it. I think they should - at
>least as long as individual membership is priced as it is now.
Actually, that question has already been decided, in the charter, which
says, under "fundamental principles":
"Participation in TEI-C activities should be open (even to non-members) at
all levels"
But I don't want to muddy the waters further: this is a question for the
Board to decide; I cc'd the Council on the original mailing because I
wanted you to know that, per our discussion, I had raised the question with
them.
John
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Fri Jan 18 12:06:54 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:06:54 -0800
Subject: EDW54 (please review)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020118084106.00af8e00@notes.rlg.org>
This document generally seems good, here are my comments. I hope they are
intelligible.
Update status
**Preamble (under toc before General), paragraph 2: I am not following the
chartered bit. Shouldn't it be:
"...TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI),
external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and given a
TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything in between).
eliminating the redundancy and confusion of who is doing the chartering --
in TEI terms, the TEI is doing the chartering, even if direction also
coming from some other source.
Knock out the bit about ", gleaned from the authors' experience in work
group meetings both inside and outside the TEI." (sounds a bit preachy).
**Under General, first paragraph:
Do work groups get appointed by board under recommendation by the council,
or simply by the council? The bylaw say that we "have the power to create
working groups."
This paragraph should also introduce the concept of some work items going
away because other, better, standards have come along and may be used
instead (MathML or tables being examples).
**Membership:
Question: why should membership distribution requirements be waived in the
case of externally-funded work?
**Documents:
Well, should there be an expiration date for documents?
What about the boilerplate text? What goes here?
Include a link to TEI A1 and TEI ED W55 (and maybe titles of documents, as
was done with TEI ED W48?).
**Overall:
Update URLs
Is it work group or Work Group? Should be consistent.
TEI Guidelines or TEI
Guidelines ?
Clarification as to who funds editors'/an editor's travel to work group
meetings.
At 03:22 PM 1/16/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Please review EDW54 (the draft document outlining rules pertaining to TEI
>workgroups), which can be found at:
>
>http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm
>
>We will need to use this document soon, so please send any comments within
>the week.
>
>John
From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Fri Jan 18 16:32:00 2002
From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 16:32:00 -0500
Subject: Minutes v.1
Message-ID:
TEI-C Council
Meeting, Jan. 12th, 2002
Minutes v.1 by Geoffrey Rockwell with thanks to Merrillee Proffitt
who provided her e-notes to me.
Attending: Christian Wittern, Perry Willett, Geoffrey Rockwell,
Sebastian Rahtz (board representative), Merrilee Proffitt, Syd Bauman
(editor), Matthew Driscoll, Lou Burnard (editor), John Unsworth
(chair), David Durand, Laurent Romary
1. Initial Disicussion
1.1 It was agreed that Geoffrey Rockwell would take notes.
1.2 John Unsworth provided an update on the Consortium. The 2002
budget (handed out in Pisa) predicted 57 members and 50 subscribers.
We now have 49 members so we are on track. Total anticipated income
$357K. $16K budgeted for workgroups (separate from monies spelled
out in NEH grant).
1.3 There was a suggestion that the list of institutional members be
moved to a more prominent spot in the web site as that is what
impresses administrators when one is making the case that your
institution should be a member. Lou Burnard said he would look into
that. [Action Item - AI 1]
1.4 We reviewed the TEI-C Council Terms of Reference. Our priorities
are to oversee changes and long range planning.
2. Review of P4
2.1 Lou Burnard provided an update.
148 changes from the sublime to the enormous, 6 outstanding issues.
It is still the intention of the changes to not break any existing
documents. Lou and Syd will produce a list of outstanding problems.
[AI 2] Character sets and WSD chapters need further work. (See
below.) The system of producing documentation (ODD) has been
streamlined so that P4 can be generated. The ODD system can generate
DTDs, HTML, PDF, Pizza Chef, and simplified TEI. It cannot generate a
TEI-Lite version of the P4 yet, but that is a possible outcome that
might be implemented. [AI 3]
We talked about how workgroups submit their work and how that
integrates with ODD. This group should review procedures for
submitting results of workgroups (EDW55 is the name of the work group
guidelines document). [AI 4]
2.2 Element Parent Child Issue
One of the issues that arose in Pisa was the issue of including for
each element information about the element's parents and children.
Various people at Pisa felt this was useful when using the paper
guidelines. Lou felt this could be misleading since the relatives
listed are not necessarily available. It was agreed that the parents
and children should be included in the P4 in the manner they appear
in P3. [AI 5] We voted on the issue:
- 7 votes for P3-like text
- 1 vote for dividing the information by tag set
- 1 vote for leaving relatives out
In the course of our discussion we discussed the possibility of
providing a custom documentation tool that would produce a version of
the Guidelines tailored to the project which could have the relevant
relatives. While this is a good idea we felt the paper copy still
needs P3-like relatives listed. [AI 6]
2.3 Call for changes for P3 to P4
The result of a call for changes to P4 didn't turn up much. Julia
Flander's questionnaire had a question that may have turned up some
P4 issues. We need to check with her. [AI 7] David Seaman may have
some suggestions that he will forward to editors.
The Ibsen suggestions seem more like P5 issues, since the intent of
P4 was mostly to bring P3 into line with XML. Ibsen suggestions
should be deferred to a group that will review "core" issues. John
Unsworth or editors will respond to Ibsen folks. [AI 8]
2.4 What has to be done to finish P4
We reviewed what needs doing to finish the P4. There are three major tasks:
2.4.1 Including the information about parents and children back in (see 2.2)
2.4.2 A bunch of little things
2.4.3 Revising two chapters - the XML chapter and the Character Set
chapter (see below for discussion of both.)
2.5 XML Chapter
The Council was asked for input on chapter 2, esp. 2.11 which Lou
felt gets dated quickly. We felt that 2.11 should stay and be
updated with reference to the W3C, stylesheets, and pointers as to
where to get more updated information. [AI 9]
We had a discussion about URLs and how to include them. Some of the
hacks mentioned included adding a URL attribute to xptr, xref, and
figure (Sebastian's hack). We wondered if we should have a web page
of hacks captured in the wild? We agreed that the editors will look
at this and that a note will be included in chapter 14 that mentions
Sepastian's hack. A proper solution will have to wait for P5 and
solutions from W3C. [AI 10]
2.6 Character Sets - Chapter 4
Christian summarized the work on chapter 4. The working group found
it difficult to deal with both the SGML and XML issues around
character sets. It was agreed that the chapter should concentrate on
XML with notes about SGML where it differs. It was noted that the
xml:lang attribute and the TEI lang attribute overlap but do
different things so we need to keep the TEI lang attribute. The title
of the chapter might be changed to "Languages and Character Sets".
Issues with the WSD also need to be dealt with. An appendix of all
the acronyms would be useful along with examples of the differences
between character and glyph. In short the chapter needs work. The
editors will return an edited version of the chapter quickly (end of
Feb.) to the working group which will then try to get it back to the
editors by the end of March. [AI 11]
2.7 Printing P4
We discussed when the P4 will go to print and how it will be printed.
Lou estimated 3 months to finish the P4. John is going to try to get
an estimate for print-on-demand costs so that we can compare that
method to massive print job of 1000 copies. [AI 12] No CD will be
published. The schedule now is:
End of Feb. - Draft sent out (with Character Set chapter rewrite)
End of March - Comments solicited for no later than end of March.
3. P5
3.1 We had a general discussion of P5. We will not be constrained by
trying to avoid breaking documents in development of P5. This led to
question as to what should happen with P4 when P5 comes out and what
we should say about the life span of P4. Do we freeze the P4 or
accept only corrections for a fixed amount of time? We need to
provide guidance to people who want to send suggestions.
Sebastian felt we should keep P4 around for 5 years (after P5 comes
out), support software (Pizza Chef) and fix things that are actually
broken for that period.
The question was raised as to whether we should say that P4 was the
last to support SGML. Lou and Sebastian didn't want to go that far
but it was felt we could suggest that new users use XML.
We agreed that we don't need to make announcements about the future
status of P4 until P5 is out.
3.2 We had a discussion about whether TEI-C Council members who were
not TEI members could have access to the member's area. John is going
to e-mail the board about this but believes they need access in order
to do their work. [AI 13]
3.3 Lou reported on the areas where people had suggestions for P5.
His list is based on a talk he gave in Pisa (the slides for which are
up in the members area of the web site.) We fiddled a bit with the
areas and decided on the following list of possible areas for work
for P5:
3.3.1 Character Encoding
3.3.2 Core Tags and Schemas
3.3.3 Metadata and Miniheaders
3.3.4 Source Description
3.3.5 Transcription of Primary Sources
3.3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
3.3.8 Term Banks, Dictionaries and Ontologies
3.3.9 Tags for Authoring
3.3.10 Multimodal Communicative Acts
3.3.11 Metrical Annotation
3.3.12 Image and Multimedia Annotation
We first agreed that 3.3.2 was the business of the whole Council so
we removed it. We then went through a process of selecting our top 2
issues to be dealt with by a workgroup. The two that got the most
votes were Character Encoding and Stand-off Markup, Xlink and Xpntr.
In the second round of voting the two issues that got the most votes
of the remaining issues were Metadata and Miniheaders and
Transcription of Primary Sources. Thus we have the following priority
sequence:
3.3.2 - Core Tags and Schemas - For the entire council
3.3.1 - Character Encoding
3.3.6 - Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
3.3.3 - Metadata and Miniheaders
3.3.5 - Transcription of Primary Sources
The general strategy for P5 is:
- Look at what the W3C is doing first
- Don't do things that others have developed standards for (like math)
- Commission workgroups for what is left over
We agreed to commission two workgroups (given the money we have).
3.4 Character Encoding
Christian Wittern was voted chair of the Character Encoding
workgroup. The workgroup gets a budget of US $8,000. The workgroup
has a term of one year and should meet at least once. The membership
is up to the chair. The workgroup should report at the Oct. 11th
meeting. Their task is to rewrite chapters 4 and 25 - to reconsider
the subject of character encoding and writing system declarations. A
workplan is called for by the end of April, preliminary report in
October, and final report in January of 2003. [AI 14]
3.5 EDW 54
There is a document (EDW 54) on how to make workgroups work. We need
to all review this and send suggestions to editors. [AI 15]
3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
We commissioned a workgroup on Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr with
David Durand as chair. David has the same schedule with the
additional request that he inform us by the end of February as to who
the members are. This workgroup will also have a budget of US $8,000.
[AI 16]
For the recond it was mentioned that one editor should attend each
workgroup meeting.
4. NEH Grant
John updated us on the NEH grant. The funding came in May. There was
a problem with the TEI tax status so it is the University of Virginia
that administers the grant. The expenses have to be billed over a 2
year period. The main thing the Council had to do was select people
for task 2 (SGML to XML TEI texts conversion.)
We came up with a list of names for the 6 experts:
John Price-Wilkins, Wendell Piez, Michael Popham, Jessica Perry
Hekman, Sue Fisher, David McKelvie, Frank Tompa
We decided that John should contact John Price-Wilkins and see if he
would chair the group. If he agrees he should then be provided with
our suggestions for names, but allowed to select his team. [AI 17]
We also came up with a list of possible people for the 10 who have
experience with SGML texts that need converting. This list will be
passed to John PW.
Julia Flanders, Lealle Fredland, Perry Willett, Louis Barch, Perseus
Project, Nancy Kushigion, Thoma Erjavec, Peter Flynn, Slave
Narratives Project, Sebastian Rahtz
We would recommend to the chair of this project that he/she make a
open call for groups with significant TEI SGML holdings who want to
participate. The chair, who we hope will be John PW, should be
provided with a schedule that includes a report to the board in May.
[AI 18]
5. Estate Grant
We discussed the request from the Estate project to write a letter of
support for their grant proposal and approved it. The proposal is to
develop TEI tranining, deliver it in Europe, and support two
workgroups. We discussed the issues around the protocol of other
groups running TEI workgroups. John U will contact the leader of
Estate and clarrify the language in the grant. We did feel this grant
proposal was worth supporting as it will not only develop and deliver
TEI training, but it will also pay for workgroups we cannot afford.
Anyone who is interested in the grant should look at the proposal and
get comments back to John as soon as possible. [AI 19]
6. Other Business
6.1 Training
We discussed training and whether TEI should certify training or
develop training. We decided to form a committee made up of Geoffrey
Rockwell, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, and Sebastian Rahtz. The
committee should look at existing training and develop a training
strategy for the TEI. The committee should consider the question of
what people are willing to pay? [AI 20]
6.2 Certification for Tools and Texts
We discussed certifying Tools and Texts. To be able to certify things
we may need to trademark a name and/or logo. John will look into that
[AI 21]
We decided that a committee should look generally into the issue of
the TEI providing consulting. The members of the committee will be
Matthew Driscoll, Merrillee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary. They will
develop a consulting strategy for the TEI which could include
consulting on software or texts. [AI 22]
6.3 Copyright
We discussed getting copyright clearance from all workgroups and
Council members. John will work with lawyers to develop such a
document and we will all have to sign it. This is to ensure that the
TEI-C has a license to use all the materials developed for it. [AI 23]
6.4 The next meeting may be Oct. 11 in Chicago depending on funding.
Rockwell was asked when these minutes would be ready and promised
them for Friday.
Please send corrections directly to Geoffrey Rockwell
(grockwel at mcmaster.ca) and I will send out a corrected version.
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Fri Jan 18 17:28:51 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 23:28:51 +0100
Subject: EDW54 (please review)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116152120.01d58828@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C48AFB3.17104.2B9C9EE@localhost>
just a few comments / proposals:
"(The TRC may discharge work groups which are making no progress on their work items, in order to be able to form a new work group which will, it is hoped, have greater
success.)"
Maybe the guidelines for discharging a working group should be more formalized; this way it is a rather formal process to decide whether a working group should be
discharged and nothing personal. Something like: The TRC should discharge work groups which are inactive for a year or longer; a working group is inactive if in this time it
doesn't publish a working paper or a working draft or if there are no reports to the TEI's technical review committee.
--------------
"those listed as full members of the work group will be named in the acknowledgements to the Guidelines"
I am not sure I understand the difference between a full member and a (temporary?) member. If I understand it correctly in the rest of this section, the text is always talking
about "full member" and maybe this should be done explicitly.
--------------
"Members of work groups may attend (at their own expense) meetings of any TEI work group; they may participate in the discussion if allowed by the head of the host work
group."
This seems to be a contradiction to the rule, that all TEI members have a right to participate in work group discussions:
"All participants in the TEI (members of the TEI executive committee, members of the TRC, members and heads of other work groups, and the official representatives of
affiliated projects) have a right to attend work group meetings (at their own cost), and participate in the discussion."
So the second part of the sentence in the first quote could be deleted.
--------------
"Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file servers; TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants by the TEI central secretariat upon request."
replace with:
"TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants in the members only section of the TEI file servers."
--------------
"In particular, the status description should indicate:"
add: If there exists one, a link should be added which points to an earlier paper on this subject created by this working group or handed in by some external group. (Quite
like the w3c recommendations).
Maybe the status information should be included into the completed text of the guidelines to allow backtracking of changes and discussions?
--------------
The TEI should offer a defined way to make a public comment on some working draft or part of the guidelines (maybe there is one already?). =>
Include in the boilerplate of each working draft and into the section [Front matter] of the complete guidelines something like
"Comments on this specification may be sent to [list at name]; archives of the comments are available."
list at name can be TEI-L or TEI-TECH and there should be some specified way how to mark in the subject line what part of the guidelines, what working draft or what paper
is addressed by this comment. Example:
Subj.: [The TEI Header] comment
--------------
"The head of the work group must file a written progress report with the TEI executive committee every six months."
Is this report supposed to be public (+1)? Or only accessible by TEI members?
--------------
"Some work groups avoid tagging specific examples because the members don't feel comfortable with SGML tagging. [...], but you do need at least that much."
Replace this paragraph with something like
"All work groups should provide simple examples for each feature (element, attribute etc.) discussed."
The w3c has the policy to promote a recommendation from the status 'candidate recommendation' to 'recommendation' only if there is at least one full implementation. This
kind of reality check sounds like a good idea.
Fotis Jannidis
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 19 12:03:09 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:03:09 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Minutes v.1
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Just a clarification (additional to some more detailed nit picking which I
have sent direct to Geoffrey)
The document describing workgroup practices is TEI EDW54
(http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/ED/edw54.htm) not EDW55 as Geoffrey suggested.
Document EDW55 is also relevant (it documents the "Form for Draft Chapters
of the TEI Guidelines", which in an ideal world workgroups will use to
prepare their drafts) but it isn't the one the Council needs to review
urgently.
I have received several useful comments already (from Fotis and from
Merillee) on the right document, so this clarification is probably
supererogatory (dont often get a chance to use that word).
Lou
From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Tue Jan 22 15:36:52 2002
From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:36:52 -0500
Subject: Minutes v1.2
Message-ID:
TEI-C Council
Meeting, Jan. 12th, 2002
Minutes v1.2 by Geoffrey Rockwell with thanks to Merrilee Proffitt
who provided her e-notes to me. V.2 is based on suggestions from M.
Proffitt and Lou Burnard.
Document Number: TEI TC M 01
Attending: Christian Wittern, Perry Willett, Geoffrey Rockwell,
Sebastian Rahtz (board representative), Merrilee Proffitt, Syd Bauman
(editor), Matthew Driscoll, Lou Burnard (editor), John Unsworth
(chair), David Durand, Laurent Romary
1. Initial Discussion
1.1 It was agreed that Geoffrey Rockwell would take notes.
1.2 John Unsworth provided an update on the Consortium. The 2002
budget (handed out in Pisa) predicted 57 members and 50 subscribers.
We now have 49 members so we are on track. Total anticipated income
$357K. $16K budgeted for workgroups (separate from monies spelled
out in NEH grant).
1.3 There was a suggestion that the list of institutional members be
moved to a more prominent spot in the web site as that is what
impresses administrators when one is making the case that your
institution should be a member. Lou Burnard said he would look into
that. LB Move list of institutional
members up near top of web site.
1.4 We reviewed the TEI-C Council Terms of Reference. Our priorities
are to oversee changes and long range planning.
2. Review of P4
2.1 Lou Burnard provided an update.
148 changes from the sublime to the enormous, 6 outstanding issues.
It is still the intention of the changes to not break any existing
documents. Lou and Syd will produce a list of outstanding problems.
eidtors Produce list of outstanding
problems. The chapters of Character sets and WSDs
need considerable revision (see below). The revised ODD system can
now generate DTDs, data files used by the pizza chef, and HTML or PDF
versions of the text of the Guidelines. It has not yet been enhanced
to produce a TEIxlite version of the text but this is an option under
consideration. LB said that it was important that such a version
should not be regarded as a revisable source of the Guidelines.
LB or SR Possibly revise ODD to be able
to produce TEIxLite version of P4.
We talked about how workgroups submit their work and how that
integrates with ODD. There is a document (EDW55) that describes how
draft chapters should be submitted which this group can look at, but
there is no urgency to reviewing this (unlike the urgency to
reviewing EDW54 - see below.) TEI-C
Council Review EDW55 - Low priority compared to review of
EDW54
2.2 Element Parent Child Issue
One of the issues that arose in Pisa was whether or not to include
for each element information about the element's parents and
children. Various people at Pisa felt this was useful when using the
paper guidelines. Lou felt this could be misleading since the
relatives listed are not necessarily available. It was agreed that
the parents and children should be included in the P4 in the manner
they appear in P3. Editors with help from
SR Add relative information to P4. We
voted on the issue:
- 7 votes for P3-like text
- 1 vote for dividing the information by tag set
- 1 vote for leaving relatives out
In the course of our discussion we discussed the possibility of
providing a custom documentation tool that would produce a version of
the Guidelines tailored to the project which could have the relevant
relatives. SR? Develop online tool for
creating custom documentation. While this is a good
idea we felt the paper copy still needs P3-like relatives listed.
2.3 Call for changes for P3 to P4
The result of a call for changes to P4 didn't turn up much. Julia
Flander's questionnaire had a question that may have turned up some
P4 issues. John U should check with her. JU Check with Julia about
questionnaire. David Seaman may have some suggestions
that he will forward to editors.
The Ibsen suggestions seem more like P5 issues, since the intent of
P4 was mostly to bring P3 into line with XML. Ibsen suggestions
should be deferred to a group that will review "core" issues. Editors
will respond to Ibsen folks. Editors Respond to Ibsen folks.
2.4 What has to be done to finish P4
We reviewed what needs doing to finish the P4. There are three major tasks:
2.4.1 Including the information about parents and children back in (see 2.2)
2.4.2 A bunch of little things
2.4.3 Revising two chapters - the XML chapter and the Character Set
chapter (see below for discussion of both.)
2.5 XML Chapter
The Council was asked for input on chapter 2, esp. 2.11 which Lou
felt gets dated quickly. We felt that 2.11 should stay and be
updated with reference to the W3C, stylesheets, and pointers as to
where to get more updated information. LB Update chapter 2.
We had a discussion about URLs and how to include them. Some of the
hacks mentioned included adding a URL attribute to xptr, xref, and
figure (Sebastian's hack). We wondered if we should have a web page
of hacks captured in the wild? We agreed that the editors will look
at this and that a note will be included in chapter 14 that mentions
Sepastian's hack. A proper solution will have to wait for P5 and
solutions from W3C. Editors with help from
SR Add notes to P4 that mention issue of urls and provide
SR's hack.
2.6 Character Sets - Chapter 4
Christian summarized the work on chapter 4. The working group found
it difficult to deal with both the SGML and XML issues around
character sets. It was agreed that the chapter should concentrate on
XML with notes about SGML where it differs. It was noted that the
xml:lang attribute and the TEI lang attribute overlap but do
different things so we need to keep the TEI lang attribute. The title
of the chapter might be changed to "Languages and Character Sets".
Issues with the WSD also need to be dealt with. An appendix of all
the acronyms would be useful along with examples of the differences
between character and glyph. In short the chapter needs work. The
editors will return an edited version of the chapter quickly (end of
Feb.) to the working group which will then try to get it back to the
editors by the end of March. Editors and
CW Return edited version of chapter 4. CW and workgroup
will then review changes.
2.7 Printing P4
We discussed when P4 will go to print and how it will be printed. Lou
estimated 3 months to finish the P4. John is going to try to get an
estimate for print-on-demand costs so that we can compare that method
to massive print job of 1000 copies. JU Check about on-demand printing
costs. No CD with Dynatext version will be published.
The schedule now is:
End of Feb. - Draft sent out (with Character Set chapter rewrite)
End of March - Comments solicited for no later than end of March.
3. P5
3.1 We had a general discussion of P5. We will not be constrained by
trying to avoid breaking existing TEI-conformant documents in
development of P5. This led to question as to what should happen with
P4 when P5 comes out and what we should say about the life span of
P4. Do we freeze P4 or accept only corrections for a fixed amount of
time? We need to provide guidance to people who want to send
suggestions.
Sebastian felt we should keep P4 around for 5 years (after P5 comes
out), support software (Pizza Chef) and fix things that are actually
broken for that period.
The question was raised as to whether we should say that P4 was the
last to support SGML. Lou and Sebastian didn't want to go that far
but it was felt we could suggest that new users use XML.
We agreed that we don't need to make announcements about the future
status of P4 until P5 is out.
3.2 We had a discussion about whether TEI-C Council members who were
not TEI members could have access to the member's area. John is going
to e-mail the board about this but believes they need access in order
to do their work. JU Check with board
on issue of council member access to member area of web
site.
3.3 Lou reported on the areas where people had suggestions for P5.
His list is based on a talk he gave in Pisa (see
http://www.tei-c.org/Members/2001-Pisa/.) We discussed Lou's list and
decided on the following possible areas for work for P5:
3.3.1 Character Encoding
3.3.2 Core Tags and Schemas
3.3.3 Metadata and Miniheaders
3.3.4 Source Description
3.3.5 Transcription of Primary Sources
3.3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
3.3.8 Term Banks, Dictionaries and Ontologies
3.3.9 Tags for Authoring
3.3.10 Multimodal Communicative Acts
3.3.11 Metrical Annotation
3.3.12 Image and Multimedia Annotation
We first agreed that 3.3.2 was the business of the whole Council so
we removed it. We then went through a process of selecting our top 2
issues to be dealt with by a workgroup. The two that got the most
votes were Character Encoding and Stand-off Markup, Xlink and Xpntr.
In the second round of voting the two issues that got the most votes
of the remaining issues were Metadata and Miniheaders and
Transcription of Primary Sources. Thus we have the following priority
sequence:
3.3.2 - Core Tags and Schemas - For the entire council
3.3.1 - Character Encoding
3.3.6 - Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
3.3.3 - Metadata and Miniheaders
3.3.5 - Transcription of Primary Sources
3.3.6 - Source Description
The general strategy for P5 is:
- Look at what the W3C is doing first
- Don't do things that others have developed standards for (like mathematics)
- Commission workgroups for what is left over
We agreed to commission two workgroups (given the money we have).
3.4 Character Encoding
Christian Wittern was voted chair of the Character Encoding
workgroup. The workgroup gets a budget of US $8,000. The workgroup
has the immediate task of working with the editors to rewrite
chapters 4 and 25 and this will involve the existing members and can
be considered a continuation of their current work. (See above [AI
11].)
Once done with the P4 chapters the workgroup has is renewed for a
term of one year and should meet at least once. The new membership is
up to the chair. The workgroup should report at the Oct. 11th
meeting. Their task is to review the proposals in extenso and propose
revisions to the way character encoding is handled in general. This
will involve a rewrite of chapters 4 and 25 - to reconsider the
subject of character encoding and writing system declarations. A
workplan is called for by the end of April, preliminary report in
October, and final report in January of 2003. CW Create Character Encoding workgroup and
keep int on schedule.
3.5 EDW 54
There is a document (EDW 54) on how to make workgroups work. We need
to all review this and send suggestions to editors. TEI-C Council Review document
EDW54.
3.6 Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
We commissioned a workgroup on Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr with
David Durand as chair. David has the same schedule with the
additional request that he inform us by the end of February as to who
the members are. This workgroup will also have a budget of US $8,000.
We do not have a formal charge for this group; one should be drawn
up. DD Create workgroup and keep it on
schedule.
For the record it was mentioned that one editor should attend each
workgroup meeting.
4. NEH Grant
John updated us on the NEH grant. The funding came in May. There was
a problem with the TEI tax status so it is the University of Virginia
that administers the grant. The expenses have to be billed over a 2
year period. The main thing the Council had to do was select people
for task 2 (SGML to XML TEI texts conversion.)
We came up with a list of names for the 6 experts:
John Price-Wilkin, Wendell Piez, Michael Popham, Jessica Perry
Hekman, Sue Fisher, David McKelvie, Frank Tompa
We decided that John should contact John Price-Wilkin and see if he
would chair the group. If he agrees he should then be provided with
our suggestions for names, but allowed to select his team. JU Contact J P-W about heading
group.
We also came up with a list of possible people for the 10 who have
experience with SGML texts that need converting. This list will be
passed to John PW.
Julia Flanders, Lee-Ellen Friedland, Perry Willett, Louis Barth,
Perseus Project, Nancy Kushigian, Tomasz Erjavec, Slave Narratives
Project - Natalia (Natasha) Smith, Peter Flynn, Sebastian Rahtz
We would recommend to the chair of this project that he/she make a
open call for groups with significant TEI SGML holdings who want to
participate. The chair, who we hope will be John PW, should be
provided with a schedule that includes a report to the board in May.
[JU and chair of NEH group Provide
chair with schedule and chair needs to keep to it.
5. ESTATE Grant
We discussed the request from the ESTATE project to write a letter of
support for their grant proposal and approved it. The proposal is to
develop TEI training, deliver it in Europe, and support two
workgroups. We discussed the issues around the protocol of other
groups running TEI workgroups. John U will contact the leader of
Estate and clarify the language in the grant. We did feel this grant
proposal was worth supporting as it will not only develop and deliver
TEI training, but it will also pay for workgroups we cannot afford.
Anyone who is interested in the grant should look at the proposal and
get comments back to John as soon as possible. JU Work with ESTATE people to improve grant
proposal and write letter of support.
6. Other Business
6.1 Training
We discussed training and whether TEI should certify training or
develop training. We decided to form a committee made up of Geoffrey
Rockwell, Julia Flanders, Perry Willett, and Sebastian Rahtz. The
committee should look at existing training and develop a training
strategy for the TEI. The committee should consider the question of
what people are willing to pay? Training Comm =
GR, JF, PW, SR Review TEI training and report back with
strategy.
6.2 Certification for Tools and Texts
We discussed certifying Tools and Texts. To be able to certify things
we may need to trademark a name and/or logo. John will look into that
JU Look into getting trademark for
TEI.
We decided that a committee should look generally into the issue of
the TEI providing consulting. The members of the committee will be
Matthew Driscoll, Merrilee Proffitt, and Laurent Romary. They will
develop a consulting strategy for the TEI which could include
consulting on software or texts. Consulting Comm
= MD, MP, LR Review and propose strategy for TEI
consulting and certification.
6.3 Copyright
We discussed getting copyright clearance from all workgroups and
Council members. John will work with lawyers to develop such a
document and we will all have to sign it. This is to ensure that the
TEI-C has a license to use all the materials developed for it.
JU Develop copyright license doc and
get us all to sign it.
6.4 The next meeting may be Oct. 11 in Chicago depending on funding.
Rockwell was asked when these minutes would be ready and promised
them for Friday.
Please send final corrections directly to Geoffrey Rockwell
(grockwel at mcmaster.ca) and I will send out a corrected version.
--
From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Jan 24 10:50:22 2002
From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:50:22 -0500
Subject: question
In-Reply-To: <3C3F1084.28710.1FC02D4@localhost>
Message-ID: <15440.11582.895493.170410@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Has no one responded to this yet?
> maybe this is something for the agenda tomorrow:
Sadly this wasn't in time to be discussed at length; many of us did
not get to read your mail until after the meeting.
> A group of German historians are considering to develop a dtd for
> the transcription of historical sources. They want to collaborate
> with the TEI. As far as I can see, this is very much in the
> beginning, but it poses a general question: how to cooperate in the
> most fruitful way. Is the TEI generally trying to cooperate as
> closely as possible in order to incorporate special demands like
> this into the TEI recommendations?
I have no idea of our official policies, if any, in this area. But
IMHO we probably don't want to get too tangled up into special-
purpose "demands" (although providing consulting is another issue
being considered by a Council committee), but the transcription of
historical sources doesn't seem all that special-purpose to me. Not
that I've ever read a German historian's historical source, but it
seems like, in general, we'd like to support use of TEI by historians
just as much as we support it's use by literature scholars. (In fact,
"historical analysis and interpretation" is listed as an area for
expected future work, although I have to admit I'm not certain what
that means. See the last few paragraphs of Chapter 1.)
> They asked me some special questions which I have to forward to you:
> - How are new working groups established?
Council decides.
> - Is there a level of discussion of TEI extensions more formally
> than the discussion lists, but not as formally as the working
> groups?
I think the answer is "no", but I would like TEI-TECH to become, if
not more formal, at least more in-depth place for exactly such
discussions. Searchable archives do exist for both TEI-L (theorhet-
ically non-technical, but lots of technical discussions occur, which
is fine) and TEI-TECH.
> As the proposed work is rather in the domain of the TEI section on
> the "Transcription of Primary Sources" I guess they also want to
> know how to cooperate with a working group.
Pobably show up at a working group meeting with a case of local
German beer :-)
Seriously, if there is a working group, there already are rules for
guests if I recall correctly (I will get to EDW54 shortly ...). If we
don't have a working group for what an outside group wants, it seems
to me we should encourage them to petition the Council for such a
working group, preferably with funding.
> A more general idea in this context: Should the TEI offer to host
> extensions to the TEI (which use the extension mechanism) which
> have been developed by some project? In projects like perl the
> module archive does offer everybody working with perl access to
> tested code and some modules are becoming part of the standard
> distribution after a while. On the other side: Maybe the extensions
> are most of the time so specific that they wouldn't be worthwhile
> sharing.
While I can see lots of details that need to be worked out (do we
review the extensions or certify them "compliant"? Do we provide the
files themselves or just pointers? Do we include changes to the TEI
DTDs that are not done properly via extension files? Do we require
documentation of any extensions we include? Not to mention the
wording of the disclaimer), I think this is an excellent idea.
Sorry you weren't able to make it to London.
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Jan 26 20:49:04 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 20:49:04 -0500
Subject: Steve DeRose
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126204536.01cec430@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Board and Council members,
Steve DeRose has written me to say that he's not going to come back as TEI
editor, though he remains interested in the work of the TEI and would be
happy to consult from time to time, and to share the work he's doing with
the Bible Technologies Group, developing schemas and formal canonical
reference systems for Bibles and related texts. I will suggest to the
Board that we formally appoint Syd as North American Editor.
John
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 27 17:18:22 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:18:22 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020126204536.01cec430@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
Thanks to Stuart's stalwart efforts, HTML and XML versions of Geoffrey's
equally stalwart minutes from the Council meeting are now visible at
http://janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Drafts/tcm01.html
I will move them to the main website shortly, unless anyone objects.
Lou
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Jan 29 12:05:51 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:05:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: New drafts on web
Message-ID:
I have just updated the TEI website as follows...
- new versions of P4X (all formats) [several minor format errors
fixed; further revisions to XML intro chapter; parents/children lists
requested at London meeting of TEI Council]
- draft versions of edw54 (workgroup practices), edw72 (charge to charset
wg), and tcm01 (minutes of tc) are now accessible from the Members area
Stand by for an announcement of the first ever TEI Newsletter...
Lou
From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Tue Jan 29 14:16:26 2002
From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:16:26 -0500
Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
Thanks to Stuart and Lou, they look great.
Geoffrey R.
>Thanks to Stuart's stalwart efforts, HTML and XML versions of Geoffrey's
>equally stalwart minutes from the Council meeting are now visible at
>
>http://janus.oucs.ox.ac.uk/TEI/Drafts/tcm01.html
>
>I will move them to the main website shortly, unless anyone objects.
>
>
>Lou
--
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 29 15:59:58 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:59:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: new EDW54 changes list (fwd)
Message-ID:
Here's a brief report (prepared by Syd) on the changes made by the editors
in response to comments on edw54 from Council members
There are undoubtedly further issues to be discussed/resolved but it would
be good to know whether the council as a whole now feels it can endorse
the content of this document as the way forward.
At some point soon the Council should also review the "charge" for the
charsets working group and specify any changes required in that. And we
also need to draft a charge for the group which it was agreed to charter
on xlinkage.
But right now, we editors are focussing our attentions on P4!
Lou And Syd
-----
Changed file to XML. Changed "ACH/ACL/ALLC Text Encoding Initiative"
to "Text Encoding Initiative Consortium" in the in
in .
From: Tomaz Erjavec
> 1. The preamble obviously needs to be changed.
Done.
> 2. Everywhere "TEI executive committee" and "TRC" should be changed to
> "TEI-C Council"
Done (except in "Status:", where it really does refer to the now extinct body).
> 3. Does "(TEI central) secretariat" still exist or should it be changed
> to (TEI-C) secretary"?
In general changed to "TEI Consortium secretary".
> 4 "TEI participants" to "TEI-C members" (& board?) (&other WG
> members?)
In general this was changed to "TEI Consortium members".
> 5. I guess it should be stated whether members/heads of WGs have to be
> members of the consortium, and, like the council, whether they have
> access to the members' web space. I'd suggest no and yes.
Added "Being a Consortium member is not a prerequisite for serving on
a work group." under 'Membership'. I think by now we're settled on the
web space issue: non-Consortium members do not have access to the
'members only' area of the web space, regardless of what other rela-
tionship they have with TEI. Since it makes perfect sense that non-
Consortium members might need access to some particular documents, and
because in all other cases requests for documents were sent to what
was then the central secretariat, I've added a clause to that
effect. See below.
> 6. SGML to XML...
Done.
From: Merrilee Proffitt
> "... TEI-chartered work groups, whether internal (funded by the TEI),
> external (funded by some other body, but recognized by the TEI and
> given a TEI work group charter), or mixed (anything else or anything
> in between)."
Changed.
> Knock out the bit about ", gleaned from the authors' experience in
> work group meetings both inside and outside the TEI."
Clause deleted.
> Do work groups get appointed by board under recommendation by the
> council, or simply by the council? The bylaw say that we [the Council]
> "have the power to create working groups."
Our understanding is that WGs get appointed simply by the Council.
> This paragraph should also introduce the concept of some work items
> going away because other, better, standards have come along and may
> be used instead (MathML or tables being examples).
I'm afraid I don't see why this document (about WG procedures)
should introduce concepts of WG results. Stet.
> **Membership:
> Question: why should membership distribution requirements be waived in the
> case of externally-funded work?
I believe this is so we do not feel compelled to turn down funding
from the Canadian Committee on Excluding Europeans from Text Encoding
(although perhaps we would turn down their funding anyway).
> **Documents:
> Well, should there be an expiration date for documents?
Good question. I [Syd] am inclined to say that boilerplate text should
be provided for when there is an expiration date, but that in general
WG documents should not have one. There may be exceptions, though,
e.g., when a WG document exists to say "this is how we're going to do
it until so-and-so publishes a different standard".
++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now.
> What about the boilerplate text? What goes here?
Good question. It appears we've survived for years without it,
although it's not a bad idea. Anyone want to make suggestions?
++Open issue. Bracketted statement removed for now.
> Include a link to TEI A1 and TEI ED W55 (and maybe titles of
> documents, as was done with TEI ED W48?).
Done.
> **Overall:
> Update URLs
Are there more than 1? I updated the one I found to point to main
tei-c.org page.
> Is it work group or Work Group? Should be consistent.
Changed three inappropriate occurences of "Work Group" to "work
group".
> TEI Guidelines or TEI Guidelines ?
The latter. Fixed.
> Clarification as to who funds editors'/an editor's travel to work group
> meetings.
Good question. As long as it's not the editor, it's fine with me :-)
Seriously, I think we shouldn't state that the TEI pays for the
editors' attendance in the hopes that we can more easily obtain
outside funding for their attendance.
From: Fotis Jannidis
> "(The TRC may discharge work groups which are making no progress on
> their work items, in order to be able to form a new work group which
> will, it is hoped, have greater success.)"
>
> Maybe the guidelines for discharging a working group should be more
> formalized; this way it is a rather formal process to decide
> whether a working group should be discharged and nothing
> personal. Something like: The TRC should discharge work groups
> which are inactive for a year or longer; a working group is
> inactive if in this time it doesn't publish a working paper or a
> working draft or if there are no reports to the TEI's technical
> review committee.
I [Lou] thought the idea was that WGs were chartered for a maximum
period of one year at a time. In otherwords, every time the WG reports
to the Council, the Council extends (or doesn't) extend its life:
nothing to do with publishing papers or reports or any other
metric. The WG head reports every 6 months, right?
We've moved the clause stating this up front, under "general" (it was
lost down in the text before), and revised following text to read:
The head of a work group should file a written progress
report with the TEI Council every six months, or other
regular interval agreed when the group is chartered. This
report will form the basis on which the Council may renew
the work group's charter.
The Council may discharge inactive work groups: a work
group is deemed inactive if its head has failed to submit two
consecutive reports by their due dates.
> "those listed as full members of the work group will be named in
> the acknowledgements to the Guidelines"
> I am not sure I understand the difference between a full member and
> a (temporary?) member. If I understand it correctly in the rest of
> this section, the text is always talking about "full member" and
> maybe this should be done explicitly.
I also am not sure I understand this difference (although it is
possible that by "full member" the original authors meant "one who
the TEI is willing to fund, whether actually funded or not"), but it
seems to me that subsequent references to "member" in this section
applies to any member of a work group. Stet.
Note that this section takes care of the concern that work group
members who are not consortium members would not have access to TEI
internal documents (of which, btw, there are very few) -- work group
members, "have the right to examine technical working papers internal
to the TEI, and to comment on drafts prepared by other work groups".
Which means a work group member who is not a Consortium member can
see any draft of any technical work, but does not have a right to see
a non-public draft of our budget, e.g.
> "Members of work groups may attend (at their own expense)
> meetings of any TEI work group; they may participate in the
> discussion if allowed by the head of the host work group."
> This seems to be a contradiction to the rule, that all TEI
> members have a right to participate in work group discussions:
> "All participants in the TEI (members of the TEI executive
> committee, members of the TRC, members and heads of other work
> groups, and the official representatives of affiliated projects)
> have a right to attend work group meetings (at their own cost),
> and participate in the discussion."
> So the second part of the sentence in the first quote could be
> deleted.
Deleted, and appended "subject to limits set by the work group
head" to the 'rule'.
> "Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file servers;
> TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI participants
> by the TEI central secretariat upon request."
> replace with:
> "TEI-internal documents will be made available to TEI
> participants in the members only section of the TEI file
> servers."
Changed to
Public documents will normally be placed on TEI file
or web servers; TEI-internal documents will be made available to
TEI Consortium members in the members
only section of the TEI web site ; such
technical documents will be made available to non-Consortium
members of workgroups and the Council by the TEI Consortium
secretary upon request.
> "In particular, the status description should indicate:"
> add: If there exists one, a link should be added which points to
> an earlier paper on this subject created by this working group or
> handed in by some external group. (Quite like the w3c
> recommendations).
Item added:
- bibliographic references or pointers to previous
versions of the current paper, or other papers on the
same subject, whether by this working group or handed
into this working group by some external group
> Maybe the status information should be included into the
> completed text of the guidelines to allow backtracking of changes
> and discussions?
In general, no. By the time a paper has been incorporated into the
Guidelines its status is known: it has been approved by the work
group. A "paper" trail should be kept to allow review of changes and
the discussions that led to them, but that trail is, and should be,
kept in the working group papers, not in the Guidelines themselves.
> The TEI should offer a defined way to make a public comment ...
Agreed, but mostly out of the scope of this paper. Have added
(In general such comments will be posted to TEI-L or TEI-TECH,
but could certainly come from elsewhere.)
with links from the list names to their main pages.
> "The head of the work group must file a written progress report
> with the TEI executive committee every six months."
> Is this report supposed to be public (+1)? Or only accessible by
> TEI members?
We believe that left unsaid (as now), it is up to the work group head
filing a report to give it either "public" or "internal" (i.e., TEI
Consortium members only) status as the fourth of the five boilerplate
status items.
> "Some work groups avoid tagging specific examples because the
> members don't feel comfortable with SGML tagging. [...], but you do
> need at least that much."
> Replace this paragraph with something like
> "All work groups should provide simple examples for each feature
> (element, attribute etc.) discussed."
> The w3c has the policy to promote a recommendation from the status
> 'candidate recommendation' to 'recommendation' only if there is at
> least one full implementation. This kind of reality check sounds
> like a good idea.
While it is a good idea that there be at least one real-life encoding
example, and it is also true that the odds of someone being on a work
group and not being familiar with XML tagging has gone way down, the
point of this paragraph is, I believe, that work groups should not
fail to produce recommendations only because of infamiliarity with
XML. The editors can help encode examples properly later.
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 11:15:11 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:15:11 -0500
Subject: JPW
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131111346.01cc32c0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the
NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI resources
(he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up additional duties
at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for another candidate?
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 14:21:49 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 14:21:49 -0500
Subject: TEI training request
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I assume)
with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September). He promises to
put more advance publicity out, and expects a good turnout. Does the
subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer?
John
From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Thu Jan 31 15:03:56 2002
From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 15:03:56 -0500
Subject: TEI training request
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
Dear John,
We have just convened and are discussing among ourselves the following process:
1. We should come up with a list of training materials (online and in
> print) that we want to look at.
>
> 2. We agree on criteria for evaluating the materials. (I would say we
> want to know the author, title, extent, accuracy, and publication
> info for each item. Notes about the extent - what it trains you in
> would be the most useful.)
>
> 3. We divide them up, review them, and compile a list of materials
> with evaluation information.
>
> 4. We come up with a list of people we know are regularly providing
> training to others on the TEI (training outside of a project.)
>
> 5. We contact these people and see if they are willing to answer some
> questions about the training they provide and their experience. This
> gets compiled.
>
> 6. We look at what we have and decide the strategy we want to
> recommend to the Council. The strategy may be just to publish some
> form of our list of materials and trainers along with a process for
> updating the information. Or the strategy might be to design a
> certification process.
>
> 7. We write up our proposed strategy and submit it at the Oct
> meeting. (And promptly dissolve the subcommittee.)
>
I think it is a bit early for us to have a concrete suggestion, but
we can discuss the request and get back to the Council.
Yours,
Geoffrey Rockwell
>Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I
>assume) with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September).
>He promises to put more advance publicity out, and expects a good
>turnout. Does the subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer?
>
>John
--
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Thu Jan 31 15:25:02 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:25:02 +0000
Subject: TEI training request
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131142030.01dadf68@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020131202502.GI1548@spqr-dell>
On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 02:21:49PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
> Creagh Cole has written requesting a TEI workshop in conjunction (I assume)
> with the next DRRH, in Sydney (sounds like next September). He promises to
> put more advance publicity out, and expects a good turnout. Does the
> subcomittee on training have any wisdom to offer?
on the basis of 3 emails between us so far, I'd venture the guess "not much"
or perhaps more helpfully "good idea" :-}
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 16:01:28 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:01:28 -0500
Subject: new EDW54 changes list (fwd)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131155904.04ea9e88@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Thanks to Council members for their comments, and to Lou and Syd for
revising EDW54. Those of you chairing or assembling work-groups should
circulate this document to work-group members.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Jan 31 16:06:46 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:06:46 -0500
Subject: Council's questions for the board
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131160133.04eba3d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Council members,
The TEI Consortium Board has voted on the questions from the Council's
recent meeting, and on the further question from the Chair as to the
permanent appointment of Syd Bauman as North American Editor, replacing
Steve DeRose, who has resigned.
1. Should TEI Council Members have access to the members-only web area?
A majority of the Board voted yes, so this question is decided in the
affirmative, but since a majority did not specifically endorse the idea of
making Council members honorary subscribers for the term of their
membership on the Council, they will simply be given the password to the
members-only area of the web site.
Username: tei
Password: c0ns0rtium
(note zero for the letter o in "c0ns0rtium")
2. Should the TEI trademark its name?
A majority votes in favor of trademarking the name, but there were no
really strong feelings in favor. A number of those voting in favor make it
clear that this is not something the Consortium should spend a lot of money
on. Further investigation with lawyers here suggests that, although an
online trademark registration is relatively cheap ($125), registration
through more conventional channels (with possibly more reliable service, in
terms of research) is significantly more expensive (probably on the order
of $500-$750. Therefore, we'll put this aside, at least until $750 doesn't
seem like a lot of money.
3. Appointment of Syd Bauman as North American Editor, for a term of five
years, beginning January 1, 2002.
The board vote was unanimously in favor, and Syd is appointed.
John Unsworth, Chair
From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Fri Feb 1 11:02:26 2002
From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:02:26 -0500
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020131111346.01cc32c0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu>
> John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the
> NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI
> resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up
> additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for
> another candidate?
No nominations, but some thoughts:
- Steve DeRose
- Allen Renear
- David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were)
- Micheal Sperberg-McQueen
- Susan Hockey
- Marilyn Deegan
- Terry Langendoen
- Elli Mylonas
- Harold Short
- Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb
Lapeyere)
I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a
good candidate, but at least food for thought.
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Feb 1 12:50:35 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:50:35 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Syd Bauman wrote:
> > John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the
> > NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI
> > resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up
> > additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for
> > another candidate?
>
> No nominations, but some thoughts:
Rating each of these candidates H(igh) M(edium) L(ow) on the following
criteria XML-expertise, TEI-expertise, and Availability, I get:
> - Steve DeRose HHL
> - Allen Renear MHM
> - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were)
???
> - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen HHL
> - Susan Hockey MMM
> - Marilyn Deegan LLM
> - Terry Langendoen LMM
> - Elli Mylonas MMM
> - Harold Short MMM
> - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb
> Lapeyere) HHM
>
> I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a
> good candidate, but at least food for thought.
>
My conclusion: we want Tommie (or Debby) -- if we can we afford
them. Wendell would be OK too (and would probably do the work if we
chose either Debby or Tommie) but it would really be great to work with
the Mulberryheads
L
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Fri Feb 1 11:46:03 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 16:46:03 +0000
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20020201164603.GC6151@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 11:02:26AM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote:
> - Steve DeRose
> - Allen Renear
> - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were)
> - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen
> - Susan Hockey
> - Marilyn Deegan
> - Terry Langendoen
> - Elli Mylonas
> - Harold Short
> - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb
> Lapeyere)
what is the thinking behind this list? ie what are the criteria
for the chair? knowledge of TEI? of SGML to XML? experience in
doing same? experience of chairing workgroups?
my feeling is that we want someone with a stake in the subject,
who actually wants to see the work done because they have
vast corpora to convert. I fear that would rule out most of the list?
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From pwillett at indiana.edu Fri Feb 1 12:16:49 2002
From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 12:16:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <15450.48146.837744.448701@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID:
Lee Ellen Friedland at Library of Congress has moved around
more TEI-encoded bits (after JPW) than just about anyone else
I know. The collections she works with tend not to have much
encoding, granted, but they're big.
Perry Willett
Main Library
Indiana University
pwillett at indiana.edu
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Syd Bauman wrote:
> > John Price-Wilkin is unable to accept our nomination to head up the
> > NEH-funded workgroup on SGML to XML migration of existing TEI
> > resources (he's short-staffed at the moment, and having to pick up
> > additional duties at home). Do I hear a nomination and second for
> > another candidate?
>
> No nominations, but some thoughts:
>
> - Steve DeRose
> - Allen Renear
> - David Dubin (not much of a TEIer yet, but we wish he were)
> - Micheal Sperberg-McQueen
> - Susan Hockey
> - Marilyn Deegan
> - Terry Langendoen
> - Elli Mylonas
> - Harold Short
> - Any of the Mulberry people (Wendell Piez, Tommie Usdin, Deb
> Lapeyere)
>
> I'm not at all suggesting that each of these would definitely be a
> good candidate, but at least food for thought.
>
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Feb 1 18:07:17 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:07:17 -0500
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Lee Ellen Friedland
....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to
go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the
Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the
criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the
problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is
that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did
as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library
problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of
community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice.
So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to
chair this workgroup?
John
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Sat Feb 2 06:52:58 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 11:52:58 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
I don't have any objection to Lee Ellen per se, and the arguments in her
favour are good ones: she should certainly be approached. But (you knew
there was a "but" coming didnt you?) I do feel that the Council should
consider being a little more open and accountable in the way this kind of
procedure is carried out.
Why should the council not issue a "call for participation", stating the
intended scope of the work, and asking for expressions of interest? This
is not only a matter of demonstrating that the TEI is not driven by
insiders only, it's also a matter of making sure we don't miss out on
possibly keen and active participation which we just don't happen to know
about. I have been in this business for a very long time, and I am still
agreeably surprised by the amount of TEI expertise there is out there in
the wild. Issuing a call doesn't preclude the Council suggesting with
whatever degree of force necessary to appropriate persons that they really
ought to respond to said call. The council should then review the
expressions of interest and select accordingly -- and it might be able to
suggest to the chosen workgroup head some useful members for the group
who might not otherwise have been available.
Talking of the "intended scope", it's my belief that all official
TEI-funded workgroups and bodies should have a publicly available charter
setting out their scope of activity and terms of reference. This document
should be prepared *before* the workgroup is set up, in consultation with
the head of the group, and its acceptance by the council and the head
should be a precondition for the existence of the group. If I am not alone
in this belief, then someone needs to draft such a charge, both for this
group (a few paras from the NEH proposal should do the job) and for the
one we appointed under the custody of David Durand. And Christian should
look at the existing one for the charset group to see how far it needs
change.
Lou
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Lee Ellen Friedland
>
> ....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to
> go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the
> Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the
> criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the
> problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is
> that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did
> as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library
> problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of
> community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice.
>
> So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to
> chair this workgroup?
>
> John
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Feb 2 10:10:47 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 10:10:47 -0500
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020202100519.01d88e58@pop3.norton.antivirus>
These are both good points, Lou, and the public call is a better procedure
than proposing names and inviting people one by one. We can, in any case,
send the call to Lee Ellen and others individually, as well as posting it
to TEI-L, the Etext Center list, Humanist, etc. And the charter for
workgroups is another sensible suggestion. I think it probably falls to me
to draft these things, so I'll do that, and circulate them to this list
shortly for comment.
John
From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sat Feb 2 19:22:16 2002
From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 19:22:16 -0500
Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <15452.33464.189860.522114@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Cheers to Geoffrey for writing, and to Stuart and Lou for convert-
ing so nicely the meeting minutes. We might do well to package up
TCM.dtd, TCM.ent, and the stylesheets used to generate HTML as a
"TEI for meeting minutes" package.
The first sentence of the 2nd para of 2.1 "Review of P4" is missing a bit: the
changes Lou listed (148 done, 6 outstanding -- of which Lou & I
solved a few the following Monday in Oxford) were changes made *to
examples* (i.e., not to the prose or DTD) *since Pisa* in an attempt
to ensure that all examples that are supposed to be valid TEI XML are
so. There have certainly been other changes, too, but we haven't kept
as detailed track of them. (We don't generally keep detailed track of
changes except, of course, that Perforce, the version control system,
keeps track of each & every one.)
Section 2.2, "Element Parent
Child Issue" makes no mention of the "wasted paper" objec-
tion.[1]
The 2nd
item of the general strategy for P5 list makes it sound like
we won't look at isues for which there already exist guidelines or
standards. My understanding is that we would look at such issues with
the hope of finding that the available guidelines or standards are
useful in our context, and thus not need to reinvent a wheel. But
certainly there may well be areas for which the relavant standard
does not apply to our users. E.g., it may turn out that MathML is
quite useful for writing modern equations to be typeset, but not
nearly so useful for encoding the works of 17th century mathema-
ticians.
Notes
-----
[1] A tangent, not for the minutes:
I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows how to easily get
customized parent and children lists. After simply loading a TEI
file in Emacs/psgml mode (you do use Emacs with psgml, don't
you?), enter the sgml-list-content-elements and sgml-list-occur-
in-elements commands, each of which is accesible in one of three
ways:
M-x sgml-list-content-elements
DTD > Info > List content elements
ESC ` d I c
and
M-x sgml-list-occur-in-elements
DTD > Info > List occur in elements
ESC ` d I o
The lists are generated in a new buffer, which you can save if
you like. The lists created address some of Lou's and my concerns
about false information, in that at least the lists are custom-
ized to the currently selected tagsets for the document (remember
to reparse the prolog with C-c C-p if you make changes to the
document type declaration), even if they obviously tell you
nothing about a particular context.
Sending these lists to the user (whether generated by Emacs or
some other process) is what I had in mind when we were discussing
what is now action item
6 .
[2] The astute reader will realize that the location ladders provided
herein as the value of from= aren't quite right: P3 requires that
the keywords (ID and CHILD) be in uppercase. Well, I thought they
were easier to read in lower case; if anyone actually has soft-
ware that processes these things I will happily change them to
uppercase in trade for the software.
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 3 05:31:43 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 10:31:43 +0000
Subject: Document tcm01 (minutes from London)
In-Reply-To: <15452.33464.189860.522114@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20020203103143.GC5140@spqr-dell>
On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 07:22:16PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote:
> certainly there may well be areas for which the relavant standard
> does not apply to our users. E.g., it may turn out that MathML is
> quite useful for writing modern equations to be typeset, but not
> nearly so useful for encoding the works of 17th century mathema-
> ticians.
ince the first part of MathML is descriptive in the same
way that TeX is, I'd be surprised. but I take the point
> [1] A tangent, not for the minutes:
> I'd just like to make sure that everyone knows how to easily get
> customized parent and children lists. After simply loading a TEI
> file in Emacs/psgml mode (you do use Emacs with psgml, don't
> you?)
you said it. the man in the street probably doesn't.
if I may be apocalyptic, emacs+psgml is dead in the water
unless someone who really knows elisp takes it by the scruff of the
neck and makes it grok schemas of some kind.
> you like. The lists created address some of Lou's and my concerns
> about false information, in that at least the lists are custom-
> ized to the currently selected tagsets for the document
fwiw, the lists now in P4 are done with the same philosophy, viz
taking a TEI instance, and deriving a flat DTD which can be
taken to pieces (I go via Relax NG, but thats just to amuse myself)
of course, it only solves the problem of the lists for *elements*. To get
the parents and children for element classes is not at all so easy!
> Sending these lists to the user (whether generated by Emacs or
> some other process)
I am assuming that PizzaNG will offer customized documentation of this
type. Apropos of which, there has not been much discussion of where PizzaNG
is going to come from, who is going to do it, how we pay for it, and what its spec is.
Does anyone want to discuss this? My assumption at present is that I
will be working on it, but I have not gone much further than the thought.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Feb 4 08:18:09 2002
From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 08:18:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: JPW
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020201180238.01d8f250@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
A couple of other Big-TEI-Collections-With-Minimal-Encoding
would be Early Canadiana Online
and the Legacy Tobacco Documents Library
. The latter project has
only metadata searchable at the moment, but they're OCRing
the 20 million documents, God help them, and will make the
unedited OCR searchable using Michigan's DLXS software.
I don't know anyone at either project, and we may not want
them represented on the committee, but the committee will
want to contact them.
Perry Willett
Main Library
Indiana University
pwillett at indiana.edu
On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> At 12:16 PM 2/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Lee Ellen Friedland
>
> ....was also a candidate in the recent elections, and it might be nice to
> go back to her with an alternate means of involvement in the
> Consortium. She has experience, as Perry points out, and she meets the
> criterion Sebastian suggests, in that she has a stake in solving the
> problem. I haven't been in a committee setting with her, but my guess is
> that she would be likely to get things done, and make sure that others did
> as well. And since the "large repository" problem is more a library
> problem than anything else, an LOC person makes sense in terms of
> community. And NEH would probably be happy with the choice.
>
> So, in order to move this along: any objections to asking Lee Ellen to
> chair this workgroup?
>
> John
>
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 4 20:16:10 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:16:10 -0500
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in
the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this
should probably go out by the end of the week.
Thanks,
John
-------------------
Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase
will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
(another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
TEI. The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors
and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one
final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical writer
for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive
director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and
travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people.
The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
March 1st, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and
TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
to volunteer, please contact
tei at tei-c.org
by Friday, February 15th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data
migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI
SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
qualifications.
John Unsworth
Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 4 21:47:48 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:47:48 -0500
Subject: workgroup charter
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204214534.03916be8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Here's a draft of a re-usable workgroup charter. I've used David's
workgroup as the example, but you can probably see how the form would be
altered for other cases. Does this charter say enough?
John
------------------------------------
TEI Workgroup Charter:
The Rules and Recommendations for TEI Work Group Procedures (TEI Document
EDW54, revised January, 2002) states:
"The technical work of the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is performed by
work groups composed of volunteers from the community of those using
electronic texts for research. The work groups are the core of the TEI, and
the quality of their work is crucial."
and
"Work groups are formed by the TEI Council whenever the TEI undertakes a
new work item which does not fit into the area of responsibility of any
existing work group. They serve until they have finished all their
outstanding work items, or until discharged by the Council."
Full text of these rules and recommendations are available on the TEI web
site, at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html, and they should be
consulted by all members of TEI workgroups.
This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council
to investigate the following topic:
Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
The TEI Council has appointed the following person as chair of this workgroup:
David Durand
Brown University & ingenta plc
Providence, USA
david at dynamicdiagrams.com
The budget for this workgroup, during the year in which it is chartered, is:
US $8,000.
A preliminary report to the TEI Council are expected in time for the May,
2002 meeting of the TEI Board, and a further progress report should also be
made in time for the annual members' meeting, in October, 2002. Unless
the TEI Council renews this charter at its January meeting, it will
automatically terminate on January 31, 2003.
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Tue Feb 5 10:46:08 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:46:08 +0000
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020205154608.GN1538@spqr-dell>
seems eminently reasonable to me.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 6 12:15:31 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:15:31 -0500
Subject: training
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206121447.024f3208@pop3.norton.antivirus>
For the record, and to avoid duplication of effort, I've asked Perry
Willett to talk to Creagh Cole about the workshop in Sydney, and he's
agreed to do so.
Thanks, Perry.
John
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Feb 6 13:25:03 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:25:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in
> the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this
> should probably go out by the end of the week.
>
> Thanks,
Looks fine to me.
L
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Wed Feb 6 17:08:53 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 22:08:53 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: workgroup charter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204214534.03916be8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> Here's a draft of a re-usable workgroup charter. I've used David's
> workgroup as the example, but you can probably see how the form would be
> altered for other cases. Does this charter say enough?
>
Not in my opinion. It seems to me we have to strike a difficult balance
between too much (micro-management) and too little (handwaving). I
appreciate that John is offering this as a template rather than a finished
draft, but I really think the charter should say a lot more about what
exactly the group is intended to do. For examples of earlier wg charters,
http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/TR/tr1p01.htm or
http://www.tei-c.org/Vault/TR/tr7p01.txt -- I don't think we need to reuse
these formulae, but I do think we need to be more explicit than
> This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council
> to investigate the following topic:
>
> Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
What does David think? How helpful is that as a charge? For my money, I'd
rather be given a specific list of items to be working on which I could
quarrel with, select from, add to, rather than a vague indication of
terrain.
Here's a suggestion, probably going too far in the opposite direction:
The workgroup should review the following areas in which
the recommendations of P4 need reassessment:
-- the extended pointer syntax as a means of supporting external linkage
-- TEI linking attributes as a means of implementing standoff markup
The workgroup should investigate how best to achieve
interoperability between TEI extended pointer syntax and W3C standards
such as XPath, and make proposals for convergence of the two syntaxes
The workgroup should produce recommendations and best practice guidelines
relating to interoperability or convergence between TEI recommendations
and other emerging standards in this area
The workgroup should also propose explicit revisions to the existing TEI
Guidelines where this is judged necessary or desirable to achieve such
convergence
The workgroup should investigate and report on availability of software
implementing all or part of the TEI recommendations in these areas
The workgroup should begin by defining an initial workplan, with
identified milestones and deliverables, for ratification at the council
meeting in May 2002.
Lou
> ------------------------------------
>
> TEI Workgroup Charter:
>
> The Rules and Recommendations for TEI Work Group Procedures (TEI Document
> EDW54, revised January, 2002) states:
>
> "The technical work of the Text Encoding Initiative (TEI) is performed by
> work groups composed of volunteers from the community of those using
> electronic texts for research. The work groups are the core of the TEI, and
> the quality of their work is crucial."
>
> and
>
> "Work groups are formed by the TEI Council whenever the TEI undertakes a
> new work item which does not fit into the area of responsibility of any
> existing work group. They serve until they have finished all their
> outstanding work items, or until discharged by the Council."
>
> Full text of these rules and recommendations are available on the TEI web
> site, at http://www.tei-c.org/Drafts/edw54.html, and they should be
> consulted by all members of TEI workgroups.
>
> This workgroup has been chartered for calendar year 2002 by the TEI Council
> to investigate the following topic:
>
> Stand-Off Markup, Xlink and Xptr
>
> The TEI Council has appointed the following person as chair of this workgroup:
> David Durand
> Brown University & ingenta plc
> Providence, USA
> david at dynamicdiagrams.com
>
> The budget for this workgroup, during the year in which it is chartered, is:
>
> US $8,000.
>
> A preliminary report to the TEI Council are expected in time for the May,
> 2002 meeting of the TEI Board, and a further progress report should also be
> made in time for the annual members' meeting, in October, 2002. Unless
> the TEI Council renews this charter at its January meeting, it will
> automatically terminate on January 31, 2003.
>
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 6 23:41:18 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:41:18 -0500
Subject: workgroup charter
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206233715.01d0ad88@pop3.norton.antivirus>
The examples Lou cites from the Vault are helpful: in particular, I think
we should preserve the three section headings:
OBJECTIVES
ADMINISTRATIVE
DEADLINES
and I agree that more is needed under "objectives" than what I provided in
my first draft. Ideally, we would specify these objectives at the meeting
in which a workgroup was chartered. Not having done that, for the two
workgroups that were chartered and assigned chairs at that meeting, I would
like to ask the workgroup chairs to propose objectives to the Council, via
this list. When they have done that, and we've collectively approved those
objectives, I'll compile a new charter for each, according to the formula
above, and ask Lou to file and post it.
I will work on some objectives for the NEH workgroup, and propose them here
as well. And having heard no dissent on the draft call for participation
for that NEH workgroup, I'll hereby give warning that I intend to circulate
that call by the end of this week.
John
From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Feb 7 00:16:10 2002
From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:16:10 +0100 (MET)
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <200202070516.GAA05003@obelix.ijs.si>
John Unsworth writes:
> Pursuant to Lou's suggestion, here's a draft of a call for participation in
> the XMLification workgroup. Please comment in the next few days, as this
> should probably go out by the end of the week.
Sorry if this is already a bit late in the day:
> The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
Hope I have my English tenses right, but isn't it "is being funded"
> Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
> conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
> of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
> of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase
> will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
> resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
> in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
> with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
> (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
> tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
> TEI. The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors
> and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one
> final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical writer
> for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive
> director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and
> travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people.
The above says that the meetings will be funded, and travel to these
meetings. I'm not sure if this means accommodation and per-diem are
covered for the attendees or not.
> The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
> March 1st, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and
> TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
> to volunteer, please contact
>
> tei at tei-c.org
>
> by Friday, February 15th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data
> migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI
> SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
> qualifications.
That is only a week, can't it be extended at least a bit more?
Best,
Tomaz
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Thu Feb 7 04:00:41 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:00:41 +0100
Subject: workgroup charter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020206233715.01d0ad88@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C625049.24130.868F0@localhost>
> John:
> And having heard no dissent on the draft call for participation
> for that NEH workgroup, I'll hereby give warning that I intend to circulate
> that call by the end of this week.
>
John,
I am managing 2 electronic discussion list, one for subscribers of the yearbook of computer philology and the other for a group of editors working on electronic editions. So
you would probably reach most of the German speaking TEI users, if you include this lists in your circulation. Just send the text to me.
Hth,
Fotis
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Thu Feb 7 15:47:23 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:47:23 -0800
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020204201447.0390e4a0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020207124635.00ac4f38@notes.rlg.org>
Looks good to me.
Merrilee
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 7 19:44:23 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:44:23 -0500
Subject: allc/ach 2002
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207194257.01cd79e8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
This is just to register the fact that I have written the local organizers
of the ALLC/ACH 2002 conference to ask if we can arrange an open lunch-time
meeting for the TEI, as we have done in years past. When a date is set,
I'll relay that information here, and I hope board and council members who
are at the conference will plan to attend.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 7 21:25:26 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:25:26 -0500
Subject: call for participation (draft for comment)
In-Reply-To: <200202070516.GAA05003@obelix.ijs.si>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207212301.01d2ba68@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 06:16 AM 2/7/2002 +0100, Tomaz Erjavec wrote:
>Sorry if this is already a bit late in the day:
>
> > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
>
>Hope I have my English tenses right, but isn't it "is being funded"
Depends on how you look at it. Either is correct, grammatically.
>The workgroup will be funded for one start-up meeting with editors
> > and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project representatives; one
> > final meeting with editors and experts; participation by a technical
> writer
> > for four months; participation by TEI editors and the TEI executive
> > director for two months; travel to two one-day meetings for 8 people; and
> > travel to one two-day meeting for 18 people.
>
>The above says that the meetings will be funded, and travel to these
>meetings. I'm not sure if this means accommodation and per-diem are
>covered for the attendees or not.
Travel and expenses; I'll specify.
> > by Friday, February 15th,
>That is only a week, can't it be extended at least a bit more?
Sure--we can say the end of February.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 10 18:49:04 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:49:04 -0500
Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184848.029dad60@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Re: the NEH workgroup:
>X-Authentication-Warning: koolaid.umdl.umich.edu: sooty owned process
>doing -bs
>Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:12:40 -0500 (EST)
>From: Chris Powell
>X-Sender: sooty at koolaid.umdl.umich.edu
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>Subject: TEI call for participation
>
>
>I am interested in participating in the project on migrating TEI to XML,
>representing the University of Michigan Digital Library Production Service
>and its TEI-based holdings. I have been working with texts encoded in
>various TEI DTDs (primarily TEI Lite, but some work with transcription of
>spoken language, transcription of manuscripts, and dictionaries as well)
>since August 1995. I am a member of the working group that created the
>TEI in Libraries Guidelines for Best Encoding Practices, available at
>http://www.indiana.edu/~letrs/tei/
>
>For the past two years, I have been converting SGML texts to XML in order
>to use XSLT for processing to our online delivery DTD.
>
>Christina Powell
>University of Michigan
>Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/
>Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 10 18:49:38 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 18:49:38 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184915.029f5548@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another response, re: the NEH workgroup:
>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:08:06 -0800 (PST)
>From: Gregory Murphy
>X-Sender: gjmurphy at gris
>To: John Unsworth
>Subject: Re: TEI call for participation
>
>
>Dear John,
>
>I am glad to hear of the TEI consortium's plans to organize a migration
>plan from SGML to XML, and am interested in volunteering myself. Before I
>can do so, however, I will have to discuss it with my manager (I work
>full-time as an engineer for Sun Microsystems).
>
>Do you have sense of when the proposed meetings would be held, where, and
>for how long?
>
>// Gregory Murphy
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 10:35:34 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:35:34 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211103242.0295a358@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Folks,
This came in a couple of days ago, and after a brief discussion with the
board, I think we agree that we endorse the general idea of working with
CIDOC as appropriate, and also agree that it is really up to the Council to
decide what *is* appropriate in this connection. So, here's the original
message, and I will forward one follow-up email response from Richard, and
you should let me know what further response the Council might want me to
make at this point.
John
>Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:21:06 +0000
>To: jmu2m at virginia.edu
>Cc: Adrian Finney
>From: Richard Light
>Subject: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI
>User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U ()
>
>
>John,
>
>I am on the Board of CIDOC, which is the International Committee for
>Documentation (part of ICOM, the International Council of Museums). This
>Committee has nearly 1,000 members in 86 countries. Its web address is
>http://www.cidoc.icom.org/
>
>CIDOC works to develop and apply documentation standards which will
>further the work of museums in general. It has produced a number of
>resources in its own right, from basic guidance on inventorying through to
>a Conceptual Reference Model for heritage information which has been
>submitted to ISO as a proposed standard.
>
>At a recent Board meeting it was agreed that we should investigate the
>possibility of collaborating with the Text Encoding Initiative - hence
>this message.
>
>Our view is that both organizations could benefit from such collaboration.
>CIDOC would be willing to work actively on aspects of TEI (such as people,
>places and dates) where our knowledge and experience could help the
>development of the next version of the Guidelines. We may also be
>interested in developing a museums-specific "topping" that goes beyond
>this. Clearly, this work would help to raise the profile of TEI within
>the museums community in general, and improve its level of adoption for
>textual resources within museums.
>
>I look forward to hearing your views on this proposal. Please don't
>hesitate to contact me if you need any further information.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Richard Light.
>
>--
>Richard Light
>Board Member, CIDOC
>3 Midfields Walk
>Burgess Hill
>West Sussex
>RH15 8JA
>tel. +44 1444 232067
>email: richard at light.demon.co.uk
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 10:36:03 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:36:03 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211103544.01cd8748@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Part 2 of my two-part message.
J.
>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:35:11 +0000
>To: John Unsworth
>From: Richard Light
>Subject: Re: Collaboration between CIDOC and TEI
>User-Agent: Turnpike/6.00-U ()
>
>In message <5.1.0.14.2.20020209153036.01cda080 at pop3.norton.antivirus>,
>John Unsworth writes
>
>>We can certainly, in any case, think about including CIDOC
>>representatives when appropriate TEI workgroups are formed, since one
>>doesn't need to be a member, or from a member institution, to participate
>>in TEI workgroups.
>
>That's certainly the sort of thing we had in mind: a practical alliance
>which has the aim of getting useful work done. CIDOC has a Documentation
>Standards Working Group, which could provide this sort of representation
>to TEI workgroups.
>
>>Other ideas?
>
>One area that Documentation Standards wants to pursue is the rescue and
>effective use of less structured information resources: things like
>exhibition catalogues, wall texts, reports, ... If we adopt TEI as a
>basis for such work, it already gives us a generic framework which would
>be valuable.
>
>At a practical level, we would be interested in techniques for converting
>standard word processor formats (RTF!) to TEI, e.g. a custom application
>of software like LogicTran. Presumably this is an interest that would be
>shared by many users of TEI?
>
>However, this work would be even more valuable if we could encode
>museum-specific concepts within such resources. (This has analogies with
>the MASTER project.) Accordingly, we could use the high-level CIDOC
>Conceptual Reference Model ("CRM") to discover the extent to which
>existing TEI covers museum requirements, and develop an extension to TEI
>which deals with the remainder of our needs.
>
>How does this sound?
>
>Richard.
>
>--
>Richard Light
>SGML/XML and Museum Information Consultancy
>3 Midfields Walk
>Burgess Hill
>West Sussex
>RH15 8JA
>tel. 01444 232067
>email: richard at light.demon.co.uk
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 11 12:30:10 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:30:10 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Participating in Migrating TEI Resources to XML
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211122952.01d33ed0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another volunteer...
J.
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:54:12 +0900 (LMT)
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>Subject: Participating in Migrating TEI Resources to XML
>From: Syun Tutiya
>X-Mailer: Mew version 3.0.51 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.1 (AOI)
>
>To whom it may concern,
>
>This is to show Syun Tutiya's intention of volunteering as a
>participant in the migration to XML project.
>
>I contributed to the TEI P3 by writing the chapter on character sets
>with Harry Gaylord, have been working on encoding spoken dialog
>corpora in TEI/SGML, and currently am in the process of recompiling
>them in terms the proposed TEI P4. The Japanese Map Task Corpus
>Project I represent aims at fruitful interdisciplinary study of spoken
>dialog based on the reliable corpora with text transcription and
>digitized sounds interlinked together.
>
>I teach text processing at graduate school, and cognitive science and
>philosophy at undergraduate level, as professor of cognitive and
>information sciences, Chiba University, Japan.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Syun Tutiya
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Syun Tutiya
>Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University
>Address: Faculty of Letters, Chiba University
> 1-33 Yayoicho, Inageku, Chiba 263-8522, JAPAN
>Phone: +81-43-290-2277 FAX : +81-43-290-2278
>Email: tutiya at chiba-u.ac.jp URL: http://CogSci.L.chiba-u.ac.jp/~tutiya/
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 13 14:47:43 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:47:43 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Volunteer for SGML to XML workgroup
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020213144701.01d37d00@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another volunteer. I am responding to each of these with thanks, and
saying that we will be back in touch once our end-of-the-month deadline passes.
john
>X-Authentication-Warning: sink.ucs.indiana.edu: jawalsh owned process
>doing -bs
>Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:45:50 -0500 (EST)
>From: "John A.Walsh"
>X-X-Sender:
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at
>mail.virginia.edu
>Subject: Volunteer for SGML to XML workgroup
>
>Dear Professor Unsworth and members of the TEI Council:
>
>I would like to volunteer to serve as a TEI expert on the TEI SGML to
>XML workgroup.
>
>I am the manager of electronic text technologies at Indiana
>University's Digital Library Program and Library Electronic Text
>Services (LETRS). I have over six years experience working with and
>developing large SGML and XML TEI collections. One of my current
>endeavors is the Swinburne Project
>( ), which uses the currently
>available version of TEI P4 and is fully XML-compliant; many of the
>texts in the collection were converted from P3 SGML to P4 XML. I also
>hold a Ph.D. in English Literature and am a Sun-certified Java
>programmer and an IBM-certified XML developer. My full CV is
>available on line at:
>.
>
>I am enthusiastic about the work of the TEI Consortium and believe I
>could offer valuable contributions to the important efforts of the
>workgroup.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>John A. Walsh
>| John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies
>| Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services (UITS)
>| Indiana University, 1320 East Tenth Street, Bloomington, IN 47405
>| Voice:812-855-8758 Fax:812-856-2062
From mjd at hum.ku.dk Thu Feb 14 03:19:29 2002
From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:19:29 +0100
Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020210184848.029dad60@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost>
They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair
would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have
been an excellent idea.
Matthew
From pwillett at indiana.edu Thu Feb 14 06:49:24 2002
From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:49:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation
In-Reply-To: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost>
Message-ID:
I would second this. Chris would be great.
Perry Willett
Main Library
Indiana University
pwillett at indiana.edu
On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, M. J. Driscoll wrote:
> They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair
> would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have
> been an excellent idea.
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 14 09:21:08 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:21:08 -0500
Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation
In-Reply-To: <3C6B8121.30917.25CE91@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020214092014.01ce0bd8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 09:19 AM 2/14/2002 +0100, you wrote:
>They all look pretty good to me, but so far at least my vote for chair
>would be Chris Powell. This call for participation appears to have
>been an excellent idea.
Agreed on both points, and thanks, Lou, for suggesting the call. It would
probably be a good thing to institute as a normal procedure when forming
workgroups, in general.
J.
From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Thu Feb 14 15:38:07 2002
From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:38:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: extended pointers for P4
Message-ID: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu>
As you all know, David Durand is heading up our new work group on
linking, hypertext, and the like. The new work group is charged with
coming up with recomendations for P5. My question for the council is
what to do with extended pointers for P4. There are two issues at
hand. The first is case:
P3> Note that the keywords, though shown here quoted in uppercase, are
P3> not case sensitive.
Several people, not the least Sebastian, have pointed out that this
is not very XML-like (he refers to it as "XML-immoral"), and that in
the modern world these keywords (more correctly called location
types) should be one case or the other, preferably lower case because
it's easier on the eyes.
Both editors (and Sebastian) think it would probably be a good idea
to change these to just lowercase (for P4). However, this is not a
"corrigible error" that we editors can haul off and do on our own:
such a change would likely break some existing documents. Of course,
it's not like there are hundreds of programs out there processing
thousands of documents with millions of extended pointers. :-(
The second problem is whitespace. P3 is a little bit confusing, but
seems to insist on whitespace between location types and values, and
between separate parenthesized steps of the value:
P3> Location types and values, and the parameters within a location
P3> value, must be separated by white space characters.
and a bit later, discussing the steps:
P3> The value is a series of parenthesized steps, separated by white
P3> space.
How come? Why not allow
"child(2 p)(1 list)(7 item)"
instead of insisting on
"child (2 p) (1 list) (7 item)"?
Both editors (and Sebastian) think it would probably be a good idea
to change this so that the whitespace is optional (in P4). However,
this is at best a borderline "corrigible error", in that it is not
obviously wrong, or at least someone might be able to make a case for
it to work that way. The good news is that making the white space
optional should not break any existing documents.
I have asked Steve DeRose and David Durand (2 of the original 4 on
TR3, the work group on hypertext and hypermedia; since we have Lou's
input, and he was 1 of the 2 editor's back then, we've consulted with
50% of the people who made this decision), and neither thinks there
is a particularly strong reason not to effect these changes now.
So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location
types, should we
a) make no changes, leave them case insensitive;
b) change to case sensitive, always lower case;
c) change to case sensitive, always upper case;
d) change to case sensitive, some bizarre mixture or capitalized or
camel case;
e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as
case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but
I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)?
On the issue of whitespace should we
a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
b) make the whitespace between location types and location values,
and between parenthesized steps, optional.
Note for those who actually think about how these things will be
parsed: per the formal definition of "locterm" in 4.2.2.2, all
location types are followed either by nothing (i.e., the end of the
attribute value or whitespace followed by another locterm), something
in parenthesis, or by one of the non-terminals "steps", "regs", or
"parms" (or "pointpair", after a name in parens); later in the
section all four of these non-terminals are defined to be enclosed in
parenthesis. Thus it is always the case that a location type is
followed either by nothing, whitespace and the next location type, or
by whitespace, and open parenthesis, and some location value(s).
Since there is always that open parenthesis, the whitespace is not
needed.
From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Thu Feb 14 22:25:48 2002
From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 04:25:48 +0100 (MET)
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <200202150325.EAA01915@obelix.ijs.si>
Syd Bauman writes:
> So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location
> types, should we
>
> b) change to case sensitive, always lower case;
It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because
the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil
choice.
> On the issue of whitespace should we
>
> b) make the whitespace between location types and location values,
> and between parenthesized steps, optional.
Best,
Tomaz
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Feb 15 09:57:30 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:57:30 -0500
Subject: Fwd: RE: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020215095712.01cf1ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another excellent response.
J.
>From: Michael Popham
>To: "'tei at tei-c.org'"
>Subject: RE: TEI call for participation
>Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:30:48 -0000
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
>
>Dear TEI Council
>
>I am writing in response to the recent call for participants to join a
>workgroup to explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of
>existing TEI resources from SGML to XML, and would like to be considered as
>a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML holdings.
>
>The OTA has one of the largest and most diverse collections of SGML
>TEI-conformant data in Europe (certainly within the UK), and our holdings
>continue to grow as we accession and preserve high quality scholarly
>materials on behalf of the UK's national Arts and Humanities Data Service.
>We have a particularly strong interest in the activities of this TEI
>workgroup, and would like to do all we can to ensure that any
>recommendations address the needs and concerns of both ourselves and our
>extensive community of users.
>
>Regarding my personal qualifications: Academically, I hold a BA(Hons) in
>English and American Literature, and Masters degrees in Computer Science and
>also Linguistics. Professionally, I have worked as both an
>analyst/programmer, and also a technical author for international companies.
>Prior to coming to Oxford, I spent three years leading an academic project
>to promote and support the use of SGML throughout the UK's Higher Education
>sector, and since 1996 I have been manager of the Oxford Text Archive. I
>also serve on the Committee of the British Computer Society's Electronic
>Publishing Specialist Group, and that of XML UK (the successor to SGML UK,
>the UK Chapter of the International SGML Users' Group).
>
>Should you require any further information in support of my application,
>please do not hesitate to get in touch.
>
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Michael
>-------------------------------------------------
>Michael Popham -- Head of the Oxford Text Archive
>Oxford University Computing Services,
>13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN, United Kingdom
>Tel: +44-(0)1865-283296; Fax: +44-(0)1865-273275
>URL: http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/
>-------------------------------------------------
From mjd at hum.ku.dk Fri Feb 15 10:06:09 2002
From: mjd at hum.ku.dk (M. J. Driscoll)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:06:09 +0100
Subject: TEI call for participation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020215095712.01cf1ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C6D31F1.19716.1740EFC@localhost>
An embarras du richesses, truly.
MJD
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 09:55:34 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:55:34 +0000
Subject: TEI call for participation
In-Reply-To: <3C6D31F1.19716.1740EFC@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020217145534.GH14336@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 04:06:09PM +0100, M. J. Driscoll wrote:
> An embarras du richesses, truly.
actually, we did specify a really quite large number of
people for this exercise. without counting, I'd guess we can
involve everyone who has written in, without having to make choices.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 18:08:01 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:08:01 +0000
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20020217230801.GN16548@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:38:07PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote:
>
> So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location
> types, should we
>
> b) change to case sensitive, always lower case;
yes please.
> On the issue of whitespace should we
>
> a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
> b) make the whitespace between location types and location values,
> and between parenthesized steps, optional.
how about c), make white space disallowed?
I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear.
Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 17 18:45:13 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:45:13 -0500
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <20020217230801.GN16548@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 11:08 PM 2/17/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 03:38:07PM -0500, Syd Bauman wrote:
> >
> > So -- what does the Council think? On the issue of case of location
> > types, should we
> >
> > b) change to case sensitive, always lower case;
>yes please.
I'm disinclined to do something that will break existing documents, in
P4. We are reserving that option (and likely will exercise it) in P5, but
we have gone to some lengths, I think, to avoid breakage in P4, and I think
we should stick with that policy. Tomaz says:
>It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because
>the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil
>choice.
but I'm not sure that existing documents would be broken by the possibility
of case-sensitivity in an XML version of the TEI DTD, whereas it seems to
me they would be broken by a requirement of case sensitivity in the SGML
version of the TEI DTD. If that assessment is off, I have no doubt someone
will let me know.
> > On the issue of whitespace should we
> >
> > a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
> > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values,
> > and between parenthesized steps, optional.
>
>how about c), make white space disallowed?
>
>I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear.
>Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible.
On the same principle, I think b), above, is less likely to break things.
John
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 17 18:57:56 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:57:56 +0000
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020217235756.GB17124@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:45:13PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
>
> I'm disinclined to do something that will break existing documents, in
> P4. We are reserving that option (and likely will exercise it) in P5, but
> we have gone to some lengths, I think, to avoid breakage in P4, and I think
> we should stick with that policy.
I'd normally agree 100%, but once you start reading that
section of the Guidelines with XML in mind, it stands out
as being plain weird. Since we can't expect P5 for another
18 months (anyone dare disagree?), I think we should
enter the XML world now with a firm step.
Let's have a quick poll - does anyone on this list use TEI
extended pointers in their files? if so, would the switch
to lower-case only ruin your life?
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 17 23:24:26 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:24:26 -0500
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <20020217235756.GB17124@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217232215.01cea708@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 11:57 PM 2/17/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Let's have a quick poll - does anyone on this list use TEI
>extended pointers in their files? if so, would the switch
>to lower-case only ruin your life?
Sorry, but I think at a minimum that's the sort of poll that would only be
meaningful in the NEH/SGML-XML workgroup, not here in the council. That
won't happen in time for the P4 guidelines to go to press, so I would
recommend that, in these cases and as a general principle, loosening the
restrictiveness of P4 at this point is OK (e.g., whitespace optional), but
tightening it (e.g., case sensitivity required) is not.
John
From lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 18 05:13:45 2002
From: lou at ermine.ox.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:13:45 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217183625.01cfefe0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> >It does break existing documents, but as they will be broken anyway because
> >the tag names will become case sensitive, I think it is the least evil
> >choice.
>
> but I'm not sure that existing documents would be broken by the possibility
> of case-sensitivity in an XML version of the TEI DTD, whereas it seems to
> me they would be broken by a requirement of case sensitivity in the SGML
> version of the TEI DTD. If that assessment is off, I have no doubt someone
> will let me know.
There already *is* a requirement for case-sensitivity in the keywords
of the extended pointer syntax e.g. you must say "ID (foo)" not "id (foo)"
and "ANCESTOR (p 1)" not "ancestor (p 1)", even though "ANCESTOR (P 1)"
would be OK, since the GI "p" is *not* case sensitive in SGML! This
inconsistency is so close to nonsense that I think it verges on the
corrigible error. Especially because making the syntax case insensitive
throughout wouldn't break existing valid documents. It might unbreak some,
of course, and if we ever decided to revert the decision or go the way
suggested by Comissar Rahtz, it might give us with a legacy data problem
in the future.
>
> > > On the issue of whitespace should we
> > >
> > > a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
> > > b) make the whitespace between location types and location values,
> > > and between parenthesized steps, optional.
> >
> >how about c), make white space disallowed?
> >
> >I sort of incline to a), you might be surprised to hear.
> >Just so as to keep the number of variables as small as possible.
>
> On the same principle, I think b), above, is less likely to break things.
>
Same principles apply, I think. We currently have a restriction which we
can choose to relax, or not.
L
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Wed Feb 20 12:28:34 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:28:34 -0800
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <200202142038.PAA14767@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220092638.03cc7e58@notes.rlg.org>
Going back to Syd's original email and given the subsequent discussion, is
>e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as
> case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but
> I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)?
uch a bad idea?
>On the issue of whitespace
I vote for
>a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
I guess generally I am compelled by the argument to not break documents yet.
Merrilee
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Wed Feb 20 14:13:01 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:13:01 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: extended pointers for P4
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020220092638.03cc7e58@notes.rlg.org>
Message-ID:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Merrilee Proffitt wrote:
>
> Going back to Syd's original email and given the subsequent discussion, is
>
> >e) change to case sensitive, always lower case for XML, but leave as
> > case insensitive for SGML texts (seems like a bad idea to me, but
> > I have to admit I haven't put any thought into it yet)?
>
> such a bad idea?
>
> >On the issue of whitespace
>
> I vote for
>
> >a) make no changes, leave the whitespace required;
>
> I guess generally I am compelled by the argument to not break documents yet.
Me too. However it's hard to see why making the grammar MORE permissive
(e.g. not requiring whitespace where it was previously mandatory) could be
said to break existing documents. Existing documents wont have
whitespace so they will still be valid.
>
> Merrilee
>
>
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sat Feb 23 22:25:50 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:25:50 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020223222218.01d74a98@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another volunteer. Our deadline passes in about a week, we will need to
appoint a chair for this committee, so please be thinking about who should
chair that group. I'll ask for your opinion in a few days.
John
>X-Sender: dacilen at pop5.attglobal.net
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
>Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:17:24 +0000
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>From: Vika Zafrin
>Subject: Re: TEI call for participation
>
>Hello,
>
>I work on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at
>Brown University. ( http://www.brown.edu/decameron/ ) It is a project
>with significant TEI SGML holdings, a large part of which I encoded
>myself. We would very much like to participate in the workgroup for
>migraating TEI resources to XML, as this is something we have been
>considering on our own.
>
>My personal qualifications: I have been webmaster of The Decameron Web
>for a year and a half, and have HTML and SGML experience. I am the member
>of our team currently tasked with researching the possibilities that XML
>presents for our project. To this end, I have attended an XML/XSLT
>seminar, led by John Lavagnino and John Bradley, at King's College,
>London; and also the XML: Nuts and Bolts workshop presented by Susan
>Schreibman and Judith Wusteman in Dublin this past December.
>
>Please let me know if you require additional information. I look forward
>to hearing from you.
>
>-Vika Zafrin
>
>---
>PLEASE NOTE NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS:
>vika at wordsend.org
>
>
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Sun Feb 24 18:42:51 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:42:51 +0100
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020207194257.01cd79e8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C79888B.9164.DD519A@localhost>
Coming from a larger meeting of German editors I have a question to the council and the board: The amount charged for a membership in the TEI consortium is so high, that
it is quite prohibitive for German academic institutions. At the meeting we tried to find a way to involve German editors nevertheless with the TEI council, not the least
because the meeting showed that the TEI guidelines are used in many projects.
There has been made a proposal which looks rather sound to me, so maybe we could discuss it here: We will try to found a society and this society would become a
member of the TEI. The society should be constituted by a group of German institutions somehow involved in editorial practice or just in using TEI (historians, literary
editors, dictionary work groups, linguists etc.). If we find 20 members the fee for each member would be ca. 250 ? and at the moment we think it is a reasonable hope to
find so many members willing to pay.
On the plus side:
If the society succeeds in finding 20 members there would be another institutional member of the TEI.
Problems:
All members of the society would have access to the services provided by the TEI for its members. There is the danger, that no other German institution would become a
member of the TEI, because it would be cheaper to become a member of the German society. But this danger is not really one because most German academic
institutions wouldn't be able to spend this kind of money anyway.
Is this acceptable for the TEI? What do you think?
Fotis Jannidis
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Sun Feb 24 19:34:45 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 00:34:45 +0000
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <3C79888B.9164.DD519A@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
I wonder whether
a) These editors realize properly the different tiers of membership.
A small project in a large German university can join
for itself, without the whole University joining, and then
the fee is not so very large.
b) Without wanting to do down the TEI, the benefits of membership
are not very tangible. These editors can participate very
fully in workgroups without being members.
I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us
some idea of the size of projects involved?
The idea of the special society seems a bit sad.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Feb 24 22:16:58 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:16:58 -0500
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020224220001.01d048b8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Fotis,
I agree with Sebastian that the scheme for determining membership fees may
be unclear, if the fees seem too high: a German (or American, or British,
or other first-world economy) organization could join for anywhere from
$500 to $5,000, depending on the number of people. For example, if the
Institute for Advanced Technology in the Humanities, at the University of
Virginia, were to join on its own, and not on behalf of the whole
University of Virginia, then we would pay $1500, because we are more than
five but fewer than fifteen. The complexity of the sliding scale for
membership fees is our best attempt to accommodate organizations of
different sizes, in economies of different strengths. And, as Sebastian
points out, individuals do not need to belong to member institutions in
order to participate in any of the functions of the TEI.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 25 12:11:51 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:11:51 -0500
Subject: Migration to XML (fwd)
Message-ID: <10590000.1014657111@localhost>
Another interesting self-nomination. I'll respond.
John
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Date: Monday, February 25, 2002 05:18:35 PM +0100
From: Frans Wiering
To: tei at tei-c.org
Subject: Migration to XML
Dear members of the TEI council,
I'm interested in participating in the workgroup "Migrating TEI Resources
to XML", as a representative of a significant TEI SGML holding, the
Thesaurus Musicarum Italicarum (TMI), of which I am the project manager.
I work at the Institute of Information and Computing Sciences (ICS) of
Utrecht University, as a member of the Information Science group (which
used to be the Department of Computer and Humanities at the same
university). I teach courses in Interchange Languages (mainly XML and
related standards/recommendations) and Information Retrieval. My research
is in computer applications in music(ology), and encoding of
(music)historical sources. A few weeks ago, the ICS has applied for
membership of the TEI consortium.
TMI is an SGML-TEI encoded corpus consisting of (to date) 30 Italian music
treatises from the 16th and 17th century, founded in 1996. The total size
of the SGML-files is about 13 Mb. Most of the TMI files are deeply encoded,
featuring hyperlinking, editorial markup, encoding of different versions of
the same source, and markup of names and titles (treatises inside and
outside the corpus, musical compositions). Some of the treatises contain
quotations in Greek and Hebrew script; nearly all of them contain musical
symbols in the text that are encoded as SDATA. Currently, most TMI
materials are available on the WWW (http://www.euromusicology.org). The
Dynaweb server is used to perform on-the-fly conversion from SGML to HTML,
and as a search engine. For the not too distant future, migration to XML is
expected. One reason is that participants prefer to contribute new
treatises in XML, another to be able to use XML-related standards and XML
software to extend the functionality of TMI.
Sincerely
Frans Wiering
---------------------------------------------------------------------
dr. Frans Wiering
e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl
Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Institute of Information and Computing Sciences (ICS)
Utrecht University
Padualaan 14
P.O. Box 80.089
NL-3508 TB Utrecht
tel: +31-30-2536335
fax: +31-30-2513791
www: http://www.cs.uu.nl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------- End Forwarded Message ----------
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Feb 25 14:34:22 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:34:22 +0100
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <20020225003445.GB7921@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3C7A9FCE.28111.AE5735@localhost>
Sebastian, John,
thanks for your answer. I think these editors do realize the different tiers of membership, but, as I already mentioned, the monetary possibilities of most of these projects
are very limited. Maybe in the future new projects will include in their applications for grants money for the TEI membership, but there seems to be a problem 1) to have the
money 2) to rechannel it into the TEI membership.
The tei-c website says: "This includes not only universities, libraries and professional societies, but also both individual projects on the one hand, and **larger consortia of
organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this be the basis for granting this planned society the membership.
> Sebastian:
"> I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. "
I do suspect a difference in academic cultures here. It does look high for a German academic.
> b) Without wanting to do down the TEI, the benefits of membership
> are not very tangible. These editors can participate very
> fully in workgroups without being members.
You are quite right. It is difficult to have an open source culture approach and sell it on the same time.
> I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us
> some idea of the size of projects involved?
Based on my conversations I think between 1 and 15 people.
> The idea of the special society seems a bit sad.
Not sure I understand this. Having this society would make it easier to communicate with all TEI interests in Germany at once. Communication is normally hindered by the
barriers of the academic disciplines and this society would cut across them.
Actually, I don't understand your hesitation. It seems to me very unprobably that German members worth 5000$ will join the TEI, so the proposition has positive aspects for
the TEI and for the German projects. (But I am not sure that we can convince enough projects to join the society.)
Fotis Jannidis
From sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk Mon Feb 25 15:24:55 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at oucs.ox.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:24:55 +0000
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <3C7A9FCE.28111.AE5735@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020225202455.GK5346@spqr-dell>
On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 08:34:22PM +0100, Fotis Jannidis wrote:
> are very limited. Maybe in the future new projects will
> include in their applications for grants money for
> the TEI membership, but there seems to be a problem 1) to have the
> money 2) to rechannel it into the TEI membership.
Much as I'd like all those Euros for the TEI, its even
more important that they use the TEI. They can do that, and join
in all discussions, without joining.
> organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this
> be the basis for granting this planned society the membership.
I don't think this German society would be banned from joining,
but I do wonder whether its worth the effort of setting it all up
> > Sebastian:
> "> I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. "
> I do suspect a difference in academic cultures here.
> It does look high for a German academic.
considering we are in the same economic bloc, and considering
that German academics have traditionally been much better paid
than ones in the UK, I remain puzzled. $500 really isn't that much
money to you or I - its not as if we were talking about an academic
in Burkina Faso....
> > I am fairly surprised that the fee looks so high. Can you give us
> > some idea of the size of projects involved?
> Based on my conversations I think between 1 and 15 people.
why not persuade them to forego all Microsoft software
and spend the money on TEI instead? :-}
> Not sure I understand this. Having this society would make
> it easier to communicate with all TEI interests in Germany at once.
> Communication is normally hindered by the
> barriers of the academic disciplines and this society would cut across them.
er, yes, but thats what the TEI is for! I'd *much* rather your editors
all joined as individual members at some low cost.
I am not against a local chapter of German TEI users, that would
be really great. I am just nervous of this extra layer of bureaucracy
caused by the society. Possibly I am scarred by years of
dealing with the German TeX Users Group..!
Why not forget membership for now, but form a local chapter
(no fees etc) of TEI users, get them all enthused and then see
how it goes?
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Feb 25 22:05:14 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: membership
In-Reply-To: <20020225202455.GK5346@spqr-dell>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020225220355.01cf5980@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Fotis,
> > organizations on the other.**" (my emphasis) Couldn't this
> > be the basis for granting this planned society the membership.
>
>I don't think this German society would be banned from joining,
>but I do wonder whether its worth the effort of setting it all up
That's for them to decide, I think. Fotis, if this group wants to
constitute itself in some way, they can certainly join.
John
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Feb 26 15:33:36 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 15:33:36 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020226153323.02943008@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another excellent volunteer.
J.
>Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:46:07 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
>From: Natalia Smith
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>cc: John Unsworth , nsmith at email.unc.edu
>Subject: Re: TEI call for participation
>X-X-Sender: nsmith at imap.unc.edu
>
>Good afternoon:
>
>I would like to volunteer as participant in the NEH-funded project as
>representative of a large ongoing project, Documenting the American South,
>and as a person with extensive experience of working with TEI.
>
>*Project*:
>+ "Documenting the American South" (http://docsouth.unc.edu/) includes
>some 150,000 pages of pristine TEI/SGML encoded materials, all following
>recommendations for Level 4 encoding of the TEI in Libraries Guidelines.
>+ All six chapters of DocSouth gained national and international acclaim
>for the content as well as the consistency of the encoded data; highlights
>include "Slave Narratives" (NEH-funded project) and "First-Person
>Narratives" (Winner of LC/Ameritech NDL Competition).
>
>*My qualifications*:
>+ Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth
>+ 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending
>CETH Summer seminar in 1995)
>+ Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding
>in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF
>+ I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C
>
>Please let me know if I need to provide any additional information.
>
>All the best, Natasha
>
>Natalia (Natasha) Smith
>Digitization Librarian
>Wilson Library, CB#3918
>University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
>Chapel Hill, NC 27514-8890
>email: natalia_smith at unc.edu
>tel. (919) 962-9590
>fax (919) 962-4452
>http://docsouth.unc.edu/
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Tue Feb 26 21:12:35 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:12:35 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020226211212.02807bc0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
I will send our felicitations and regrets.
J.
>Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 17:42:23 -0800 (PST)
>From: Gregory Murphy
>X-Sender: gjmurphy at gris
>To: John Unsworth
>Subject: Re: TEI call for participation
>
>
>John,
>
>I no longer think that I will able to recommend myself to the SGML->XML
>working group. I've got a big chunk of vacation coming up, over a month,
>which I think I will use to go someplace without computers. Also, my family
>will be growing in the early Fall, and since we have no relatives near us,
>I'll be doing a lot of duty as house-dad.
>
>Good luck, wish I could lend a hand.
>
>// Gregory Murphy
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Wed Feb 27 15:00:56 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 15:00:56 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020227150021.01d60b38@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Another volunteer. Please be prepared to express an opinion, on Friday,
concerning the chairmanship of this workgroup.
Thanks,
John
>Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 20:18:17 +0100
>From: Tobias Rischer
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>Cc: hans-walter.gabler at anglistik.uni-muenchen.de
>Subject: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
>X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.4i
>Sender: Tobias Rischer
>
> - Application for the XML migration workgroup -
>
>
> Munich, February 27, 2002
>
>Dear people of the TEI,
>
>I have heard only a few days ago that the TEI is forming a work group to
>"explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
>resources from SGML to XML" and that they are inviting potential
>participants. Hans-Walter Gabler (1) encouraged me to actually send you
>this application.
>
>I would be quite interested to participate in the role of
>"representative of a project", but I think I can also claim some
>knowledge on the technical aspects of TEI/SGML and data migration.
>
>The project I could represent is, in the narrow sense, the Critical and
>Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses, the SGML form of which came
>into being as part of my diploma thesis (2). In a broader sense, I
>could be the contact person to the Graduiertenkolleg Textkritik der
>Universitt Mnchen (3) and its projects. It is directed (even:
>conducted) by Hans-Walter Gabler and we have cooperated in close and
>friendly contact for years. I have been involved as an advisor and
>programmer in several of the dissertation projects at the
>Graduiertenkolleg.
>
>My personal background is a solid foundation in Computer Science and a
>slightly less solid, but still comfortable education in literature, with
>a focus on textual criticism. I have received my diploma degree from
>the Technical University of Munich in Computer Science and English
>Literature in 1997. I have followed the activities of the TEI with
>strong interest in the mid- and late 90s, after the TEI P3 guidelines
>came out, and I have taken part in discussions on the TEI mailing list
>during that period.
>
>A curriculum vitae (with a bias towards "hard computing") is available
>on my web site (4). Feel free to contact me for any further
>information.
>
>With best regards,
>
> Tobias Rischer
>
>
>References:
>
>(1)
>
>(2) http://rischer.com/diplom.html
>
>(3) http://www.textkritik.uni-muenchen.de/
>
>(4) http://rischer.com/profile-e.pdf
>
>--
>.............................................
> (_) Tobias Rischer
> "===' tobias at rischer.com
> " "
>...still.loving.GNU..........................
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 08:49:37 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:49:37 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Volunteer for migration of TEI-SGML to TEI-XML
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228084931.01d13230@pop3.norton.antivirus>
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:24:13 +0100
>X-Sender: U03267 at aitana.cpd.ua.es
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>From: Alejandro Bia
>Subject: Volunteer for migration of TEI-SGML to TEI-XML
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by
>jefferson.village.Virginia.EDU id FAA24602
>
>I'd like to volunteer as participant in the project about migration of large
>bodies
>of existing TEI resources from SGML to XML. My expertise is in data migration,
>technical documentation and working with TEI-XML at the Miguel de Cervantes
>Digital Library.
>
>I have a BS and a MS degree in Computer Sciences from ORT University, a
>Diploma in Computing and Information Systems from Oxford University and
>I'm finishing my PhD thesis on Computing Methods to Automate the Production of
>Digital Resources in Digital Libraries at the University of Alicante, Spain.
>Currently I'm working as Head of the Research and Development dept. of the
>Miguel
>de Cervantes Digital Library at the University of Alicante.
>
>In the past I've worked as Special-Projects Manager at NetGate (1996),
>Documentation Editor of the GeneXus project at Advanced Research and
>Technology
>(ARTech) (1991-1994), and worked at the Telephone Traffic Processing Unit of
>ANTEL (1994-1989). I've lectured on Operating Systems, Computer Organization,
>Computer Networks and English for Computer Sciences at ORT University
>(1990-1996). My current interests are digitisation automation by computer
>methods,
>digital preservation, digitisation metrics and cost estimates, texts
>structuring and
>markup languages.
>
>Kind regards,
>Alejandro Bia.-
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>At 12:01 a.m. 09/02/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:38:57 -0500
> >From: John Unsworth
> >Subject: TEI call for participation
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> >Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
> >
> >The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
> >Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
> >conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
> >of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
> >of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase
> >will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
> >resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
> >in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
> >with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
> >(another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
> >tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
> >TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up
> >meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project
> >representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation
> >by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the
> >TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people;
> >and one two-day meeting for 18 people.
> >
> >The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
> >March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and
> >TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
> >to volunteer, please contact
> >
> >tei at tei-c.org
> >
> >by February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data migration
> >expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML
> >holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
> >qualifications.
> >
> >John Unsworth
> >Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium
> >Content-ID: <3873 at LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU>
> >Content-Type: message/rfc822
> >
>---------------------------------------------------------
>ALEJANDRO G. BIA-PLATAS
>e-mail: abia at dlsi.ua.es, alex.bia at ua.es
>
>Trabajo:
> Subdirector de Investigaci?n Inform?tica
> Biblioteca Virtual Miguel de Cervantes
> Universidad de Alicante (Edificio de Institutos)
> Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN
> Tel: 34-96-590 9567 Fax: 34-96-590 9477
> http://cervantesvirtual.com/
>
>Investigaci?n:
> Dept. de Lenguajes y Sistemas Inform?ticos
> Universidad de Alicante, DLSI-EPSA
> Apdo. de correos 99, E-03080, Alicante, SPAIN
> Tel: 34-96-590 9335 Fax: 34-96-590 3464
> http://www.dlsi.ua.es/
>
>Domicilio:
> Colonia Romana 13, Edif.1, Port.2, 7-E
> Alicante, SPAIN CP:03016
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 08:57:47 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 08:57:47 -0500
Subject: Fwd: TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228085724.03365770@pop3.norton.antivirus>
From one of our own, and nominating another.
John
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 05:35:55 +0100 (MET)
>From: Tomaz Erjavec
>To: John Unsworth
>Cc: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si
>Subject: TEI call for participation
>X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020218 / Sophos+Sophie
>X-Razor-id: e3d300960f41db69852c6cec7a4f131ba1422803
>
>Dear John,
>it seems to me that the quota isn't filled yet, also, that there has
>been little response from the NLP community, so I'd like to volunteer
>as somebody with "significant TEI holdings".
>
>The TEI encoded resources I have worked on, have access to and would
>like to see migrated are:
>- the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel
>- the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel
>- the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference
>- the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample
>
>However, if it turns out that I could be more useful as a TEI expert,
>that is fine too.
>
>And while I'm at it: how about Sebastian chairing the WG?
>
>Best,
>Tomaz
>
>
> > Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
> >
> > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
> > Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
> > conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
> > of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
> > of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second
> phase
> > will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
> > resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
> > in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
> > with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
> > (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
> > tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
> > TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one
> start-up
> > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project
> > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation
> > by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors
> and the
> > TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people;
> > and one two-day meeting for 18 people.
> >
> > The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
> > March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML,
> XML, and
> > TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
> > to volunteer, please contact
> >
> > tei at tei-c.org
> >
> > by February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data migration
> > expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI SGML
> > holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
> > qualifications.
> >
> > John Unsworth
> > Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Thu Feb 28 19:36:17 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:36:17 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: 15.494 TEI call for participation
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020228193612.03347620@pop3.norton.antivirus>
>Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:58:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Sally Thomas
>To: tei at tei-c.org
>cc: Nancy Kushigian
>Subject: Re: 15.494 TEI call for participation
>
>Hello John Unsworth,
>
>I am interested in participating in the proposed workgroup of the TEI in
>regards to migrating TEI resources from SGML to XML. I am the associate
>director of the University of California History Digital Archives, a
>project co-sponsored by the Center for Studies in Higher Education and The
>Bancroft Library, at UC Berkeley. (We anticipate that the site will
>eventually be served from the California Digital Library.)
>
>A brief summary of our project can be found at:
>
>http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html
>
>Our project's prototype Web site can be found at:
>
>http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/uchistory/
>
>Our public TEI-Lite documents can be accessed at:
>
>http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2020/dynaweb/teiproj/uchist/
>
>The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a
>password-protected working directory at:
>
>http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/
>
>login: teitest
>pw: sgml
>
>Our project is in the first stage of creating a large body of
>TEI-compliant documents related to the history of the systemwide
>University of California. Our largest collections will include the
>Minutes of the Board of Regents of the University of California, and the
>minutes of the Academic Senate of the University of California,
>post-World War II to present.
>
>I supervise the TEI SGML mark-up of our electronic documents and the
>development of our HTML interface Web site. We plan to migrate our TEI
>SGML documents to XML, but have so far focused our attention on the
>development of our digital content in SGML. I am very interested in
>participating in your workgroup as a representative of a project with a
>significant TEI SGML holding, and would value an opportunity to gain practical
>"hands-on" experience in migrating our collection to XML.
>
>In the process of developing our site, I have established ties to other
>TEI SGML collections, including a significant project based at UC Davis:
>British Women Romantic Poets, 1789-1832 (An Electronic Collection of Texts
>from the Shields Library), edited by Nancy Kushigian, available online
>at:
>
>http://www.lib.ucdavis.edu/English/BWRP/index.htm
>
>Dr. Kushigian started the BWRP project in 1997, and has since been
>involved in the development of best-practice standards related to TEI SGML
>markup, including "TEI Text Encoding in Libraries: Guidelines for Best
>Encoding Practices" (1999), available at:
>http://www.indiana.edu/~letrs/tei/.
>
>Dr. Kushigian is unable to participate in the proposed TEI SGML-XML
>conversion workgroup, but has asked me -- if selected to participate
>-- to represent her project. You can contact Dr. Kushigian via email at
>njkushigian at ucdavis.edu or by phone at 530-754-4337.
>
>In reference to my academic background, I hold a BA in history from
>Stanford University (1982) and a master's degree in Information Management
>& Systems from UC Berkeley (1999).
>
>Please do not hesitate to contact me if you should need more information.
>I would appreciate you responding to this email to acknowledge its
>receipt.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Sally Thomas
>Associate Director/Digital Librarian
>University of California History Digital Archives
>Center for Studies in Higher Education
>South Hall Annex #4650
>University of California
>Berkeley, CA 94720-4650
>sthomas at library.berkeley.edu 510-643-0116
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Office Located in Room 44A, The Bancroft Library
>
>On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Humanist Discussion Group (by way of Willard McCarty
>) wrote:
>
> > Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 494.
> > Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:28:30 +0000
> > From: John Unsworth
> > Subject: TEI call for participation
> >
> >
> > Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
> >
> > The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
> > Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
> > conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
> > of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
> > of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase
> > will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
> > resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
> > in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
> > with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
> > (another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
> > tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
> > TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up
> > meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project
> > representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation
> > by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the
> > TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people;
> > and one two-day meeting for 18 people.
> >
> > The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
> > March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and
> > TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
> > to volunteer, please contact
> >
> > tei at tei-c.org
> >
> > by Friday, February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data
> > migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI
> > SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
> > qualifications.
> >
> > John Unsworth
> > Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium
> >
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Fri Mar 1 17:37:47 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:37:47 -0500
Subject: Fwd: 15.494 TEI call for participation (fwd)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301173717.01d15ff8@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Chris is asst. director at the UVa Etext Center.
J.
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:41:22 -0500 (EST)
>From: Christine Ruotolo
>To: jmu2m at virginia.edu
>MMDF-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding line at
>mail.virginia.edu
>Subject: 15.494 TEI call for participation (fwd)
>
>
>John,
>
>Are you still looking for working group volunteers? I'd like to
>participate. As for my qualifications relative to those categories --
>I've used TEI for 5+ years, I work for a library division with thousands
>of SGML and XML TEI objects, and I will be increasingly involved with
>SGML > XML migration. Let me know if you need a more formal statement or
>something.
>
>Thanks,
>Chris
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 07:30:52 +0000
>From: "Humanist Discussion Group (by way of Willard McCarty
> )"
>To: humanist at Princeton.EDU
>Subject: 15.494 TEI call for participation
>
> Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 494.
> Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 07:28:30 +0000
> From: John Unsworth
> Subject: TEI call for participation
>
>
>Call for Participation: Migrating TEI Resources to XML
>
>The Text Encoding Initiative Consortium has been funded by the National
>Endowment for the Humanities' Division of Preservation and Access to
>conduct a two-year project to provide XML support in TEI. The first phase
>of this project has been the production of P4, the XML-compliant revision
>of the TEI Guidelines that will be published this spring. The second phase
>will explore the issues involved in migrating large bodies of existing TEI
>resources from SGML to XML. To do this, the TEI will convene a workgroup
>in which selected experts and editors (8 people, total) will work closely
>with representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
>(another 10 people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and
>tools necessary to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in
>TEI. The workgroup will be funded (travel and expenses) for a one start-up
>meeting with editors and experts only; one mid-term meeting with project
>representatives; one final meeting with editors and experts; participation
>by a technical writer for four months; participation by TEI editors and the
>TEI executive director for two months; two one-day meetings for 8 people;
>and one two-day meeting for 18 people.
>
>The TEI Council will appoint the workgroup, and its chair, not later than
>March 15th, 2002, but it would like to invite members of the SGML, XML, and
>TEI communities to volunteer as participants in this project. If you wish
>to volunteer, please contact
>
>tei at tei-c.org
>
>by Friday, February 28th, and identify yourself as a TEI expert, a data
>migration expert, or a representative of a project with significant TEI
>SGML holdings, and provide the Council with a brief account of your
>qualifications.
>
>John Unsworth
>Chair, TEI Council & TEI Consortium
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Sun Mar 3 20:44:45 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Folks,
Here are the names of those who have nominated themselves for our
NEH-funded SGML-XML migration workgroup. Greg Murphy, Sun Microsystems, is
missing from this list because he nominated himself and then withdrew his
nomination. If I have missed anyone, please let me know.
The NEH workplan calls for:
A Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which
selected TEI experts (6) and editors (2) work closely with
representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings (another 10
people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools necessary
to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI.
Our editors, of course, are Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman. As you know, we've
had a number of volunteers: I have grouped those, below, into migration
experts, repository representatives, and questionable
self-nominations. Obviously, a number of these repository representatives
could be migration experts; the reverse is not necessarily true, and the
questionable nominations don't (to my mind) fit well in either category.
I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then
forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation
that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let
the chair sort the group into the two categories, and issue invitations to
fill the remaining seats. Unless there's dissent on this procedural
question, then Council members need to express an opinion on two points:
A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I
would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below).
B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and
dismissed?
If you dissent on the procedure, please do so immediately. Otherwise,
please vote on those two questions as soon as you can.
John
----------------------
Nominations for Chair:
Sebastian Rahtz (Tomaz Erjavec): Sebastian, you haven't actually
volunteered for this, so please indicate whether you are willing to chair
the workgroup, if appointed.
Chris Powell (Matthew Driscoll, seconded Perry Willett). Chris volunteered,
and she was suggested by John Price-Wilkin as an alternate. I think we can
assume she would serve if appointed.
Other nominations for chair may be made, but they should be drawn from the
list of volunteers, below, I think.
TEI Migration Experts:
[Sebastian Rahtz, if he agrees to serve on the workgroup, as chair or
otherwise]
Syun Tutiya
Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University
Faculty of Letters, Chiba University
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0083.html
TEI Repository Representatives:
1. Chris Powell
Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/
Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0079.html
2. Natalia Smith
+ Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth
+ 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending
CETH Summer seminar in 1995)
+ Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding
in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF
+ I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0108.html
3. John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies
Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0084.html
5. Michael Popham
Head of the Oxford Text Archive
http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0090.html
6. dr. Frans Wiering
e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl
Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0104.html
7. Alejandro Bia
Head of the Research and Development dept. of the Miguel de Cervantes
Digital Library at the University of Alicante.
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0111.html
8. Sally Thomas
Associate Director of the University of California History Digital Archives
http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html
The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a
password-protected working directory at:
http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/
login: teitest
pw: sgml
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0113.html
9. Christine Ruotolo
Associate Director, Electronic Text Center
University of Virginia
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0114.html
10. Tomaz Erjavec
- the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel
- the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel
- the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference
- the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0112.html
Questionable self-nominations--
Vika Zafrin
Works on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at
Brown University.
http://www.brown.edu/decameron/
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0100.html
Tobias Rischer
The Critical and Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses
(under the direction of Hans Walter Gabler)
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0110.html
From wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp Sun Mar 3 22:25:41 2002
From: wittern at kanji.zinbun.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Christian Wittern)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:25:41 +0900
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
John Unsworth writes:
> A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
> of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
> his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I
> would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below).
I vote for Sebastian, if he is willing to serve, otherwise for Chris Powell.
>
> B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and
> dismissed?
I would think that should be up to the chair to judge. Tobias Rischer
does have some proven expertise in migrating from TuSTEP to SGML,
which could prove valuable in the current project.
All the best,
Christian
--
Christian Wittern
Institute for Research in Humanities, Kyoto University
47 Higashiogura-cho, Kitashirakawa, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8265, JAPAN
From Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si Sun Mar 3 22:41:25 2002
From: Tomaz.Erjavec at ijs.si (Tomaz Erjavec)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 04:41:25 +0100 (MET)
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <200203040341.EAA05949@obelix.ijs.si>
Christian Wittern writes:
> John Unsworth writes:
>
> > A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
> > of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
> > his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I
> > would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below).
>
> I vote for Sebastian, if he is willing to serve, otherwise for Chris Powell.
Same here.
> > B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and
> > dismissed?
>
> I would think that should be up to the chair to judge. Tobias Rischer
> does have some proven expertise in migrating from TuSTEP to SGML,
> which could prove valuable in the current project.
I would also recommend that Tobias be voted in. Also, it might be wise
to wait to see if we can in fact fill all the positions before
dismissing willing volunteers. But yes, the chair should make the
decision.
Best,
Tomaz
--
Tomaž Erjavec | Dept. of Intelligent Systems E-8
email: tomaz.erjavec at ijs.si | Institute "Jozef Stefan"
www: http://nl.ijs.si/et/ | Jamova 39, SI-1000, Ljubljana
fax: (+386 1) 4251 038 | Slovenia
From Syd_Bauman at brown.edu Sun Mar 3 22:51:55 2002
From: Syd_Bauman at brown.edu (Syd Bauman)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:51:55 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <15490.61275.560566.845766@mama.stg.brown.edu>
> I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then
> forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation
> that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let
> the chair sort the group into the two categories,
For reasons I can't entirely explain, I'd prefer the Council appoint
one of the two groups (experts or repository representatives) leaving
the other to the Chair; or that the Council give the chair two
separate (but possibly overlapping, I suppose) lists from which to
choose. I guess I'm leaning towards a bit more Council involvement
than the procedure John suggests.
On the other hand, given that there are only a total of 14 people for
the 16 positions, perhaps I should stop worrying.
> A. Who should chair this group? ... Sebastian
My personal take is that, despite being an obvious expert
extraordinaire, Sebastian is too valuable in his current role
as XSLT & Relax NG dude to be spared for chairing the group.
From fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de Mon Mar 4 03:48:55 2002
From: fotis.jannidis at lrz.uni-muenchen.de (Fotis Jannidis)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:48:55 +0100
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <3C834307.16861.191BCC@localhost>
From: John Unsworth
>
> A. Who should chair this group?
Chris Powell
> B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be
> thanked and dismissed?
No. I would like to see Tobias Rischer on the list. He has studied with Brueggemann-Klein and Gabler, probably one of the best combinations of computer science and
humanities computing you can find in Germany; and he has worked for years now with very different richly tagged texts.
Fotis
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 04:27:05 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:27:05 +0000
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020304092705.GE26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
I need to hold off replying on this chairing or serving business until
I have discussed it with my management. I'd not feel happy
working on the project unless I was able to use even
more of my work time on the TEI than I do already.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 06:57:31 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:57:31 +0000
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020304115731.GK26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:44:45PM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
> A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
> of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
> his willingness to serve if appointed.
After discussion with management, Sebastian is willing but unable,
I am afraid. The proportion of my time I can realistically devote
to the TEI would not be able to cover the commitment that would
be necessary.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From pwillett at indiana.edu Mon Mar 4 08:00:40 2002
From: pwillett at indiana.edu (C. Perry Willett)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:00:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, John Unsworth wrote:
> A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
> of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
> his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I
> would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below).
Chris Powell.
> B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked and
> dismissed?
It doesn't seem from the documentation (either the Decameron website for
Zafrin or the links to Rischer's CV etc.) that either would qualify
as working with "significant TEI holdings," nor is it clear what their
contributions to their respective projects have been. Others may have
some personal knowledge to bring to the discussion, but from the
documentation alone I'd have to vote "yes".
Perry Willett
Main Library
Indiana University
pwillett at indiana.edu
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 08:32:37 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:32:37 +0000
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <15490.61275.560566.845766@mama.stg.brown.edu>
Message-ID: <20020304133237.GS26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
>
> For reasons I can't entirely explain, I'd prefer the Council appoint
> one of the two groups (experts or repository representatives) leaving
> the other to the Chair; or that the Council give the chair two
> separate (but possibly overlapping, I suppose) lists from which to
> choose. I guess I'm leaning towards a bit more Council involvement
> than the procedure John suggests.
>
> On the other hand, given that there are only a total of 14 people for
> the 16 positions, perhaps I should stop worrying.
Um. I am tending towards Syd's view. Giving the chair *all* the choice
seems a slight cop-out.
I'd ask her (if no other candidate appears) to recommend
to the Council how she proposes to use the list of volunteers
and we'd very likely endorse it. But the formal letter should then
come from the Council.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 10:03:59 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:03:59 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <200203040341.EAA05949@obelix.ijs.si>
Message-ID:
I don't have a vote, and would be happy with either Sebastian or Chris
as head of the group. If you are asking my opinion though, I think
Chris would be a great accession to our scarce human resources, and not
just because she's female!
I also share the general warm feeling about Tobias Rischer. It is of
course down to the chair of the workgroup to decide who they have on their
groups, but my feeling that he ought to be recommended to the chair by the
Council seems to command perhaps more support than John's earlier message
implied
I should add that Sebastian will certainly be in a position to provide
technical input to the group where needed.
Stay tuned for an announcement about P4!!!
Lou
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 09:18:06 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:18:06 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <3C834307.16861.191BCC@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304090453.01d1c570@pop3.norton.antivirus>
For those who haven't yet voted:
Since Sebastian has withdrawn his name, Chris would appear to be our only
active nominee for chair of the workgroup. Any dissent on designating her
chair?
Also, a number of people have corrected my ranking of Tobias Rischer, so I
will move him into the experts category, for our recommendations to the
chair. No one, so far, has dissented on my ranking of Zafrin.
Sebastian and Syd have argued that the Council ought to do more than
appoint the chair and pass our recommendations along. I refer them to
EDW54, the "Rules and Recommendations for TEI Workgroup Procedures," which
says:
Membership in a TEI work group is normally controlled by the work
group head, though the
TEI Council may impose particular requirements on the
membership, or may name individual
members of the work group.
We have imposed the requirement that 10 members of the workgroup represent
repositories, and (luckily) ten plausible representatives have
volunteered. Unless we decide otherwise, we will pass those ten names
along to the workgroup chair with our recommendation to include
them. Unless we decide otherwise, we'll do the same with at least two,
probably three, of the six experts. I would expect the Chair to accept
those recommendations, and I think we ought to leave the Chair a little
room for the 'normal control' of membership in the workgroup.
John
From sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 09:21:25 2002
From: sebastian.rahtz at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:21:25 +0000
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304090453.01d1c570@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <20020304142125.GV26719@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 09:18:06AM -0500, John Unsworth wrote:
> Since Sebastian has withdrawn his name, Chris would appear to be our only
> active nominee for chair of the workgroup. Any dissent on designating her
> chair?
not from me
> volunteered. Unless we decide otherwise, we will pass those ten names
> along to the workgroup chair with our recommendation to include
> them. Unless we decide otherwise, we'll do the same with at least two,
> probably three, of the six experts. I would expect the Chair to accept
> those recommendations, and I think we ought to leave the Chair a little
> room for the 'normal control' of membership in the workgroup.
ok, I don't think I differ much from that.
--
Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
From Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org Mon Mar 4 11:14:17 2002
From: Merrilee_Proffitt at notes.rlg.org (Merrilee Proffitt)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:14:17 -0800
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304080831.00ad2088@notes.rlg.org>
A tardy response (apparently I being in the Pacific Time Zone is a
disadvantage!)
Having worked with Sally Thomas, I can say that she is not qualified to
participate in this group, and move that her name be removed from the
list. I can give a long diatribe, or you can trust me on this. I would
not want to inflict her on our chair, and I think someone else who
represents the interests of UC could be located.
I think Chris would do a great job chairing the group.
Merrilee
At 08:44 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Here are the names of those who have nominated themselves for our
>NEH-funded SGML-XML migration workgroup. Greg Murphy, Sun Microsystems,
>is missing from this list because he nominated himself and then withdrew
>his nomination. If I have missed anyone, please let me know.
>
>The NEH workplan calls for:
>
> A Task Force on SGML to XML conversion of legacy TEI data, in which
> selected TEI experts (6) and editors (2) work closely with
> representatives from projects with significant TEI SGML holdings
> (another 10
> people) to diagnose and document the problems, methods, and tools
> necessary
> to design and effect a migration from SGML to XML, in TEI.
>
>Our editors, of course, are Lou Burnard and Syd Bauman. As you know,
>we've had a number of volunteers: I have grouped those, below, into
>migration experts, repository representatives, and questionable
>self-nominations. Obviously, a number of these repository representatives
>could be migration experts; the reverse is not necessarily true, and the
>questionable nominations don't (to my mind) fit well in either category.
>
>I would say that our business is only to appoint the chair--we can then
>forward the self-nominations to that person (perhaps with a recommendation
>that a couple of the volunteers be thanked but dismissed), and we can let
>the chair sort the group into the two categories, and issue invitations to
>fill the remaining seats. Unless there's dissent on this procedural
>question, then Council members need to express an opinion on two points:
>
>A. Who should chair this group? (two people have been nominated, only one
>of whom has actually volunteered, so we need to hear from Sebastian as to
>his willingness to serve if appointed. We can also nominate others, but I
>would say they should come from our list of volunteers, below).
>
>B. Should we recommend to the chair that Zafrin and Rischer be thanked
>and dismissed?
>
>If you dissent on the procedure, please do so immediately. Otherwise,
>please vote on those two questions as soon as you can.
>
>John
>
>----------------------
>
>Nominations for Chair:
>
>Sebastian Rahtz (Tomaz Erjavec): Sebastian, you haven't actually
>volunteered for this, so please indicate whether you are willing to chair
>the workgroup, if appointed.
>
>Chris Powell (Matthew Driscoll, seconded Perry Willett). Chris
>volunteered, and she was suggested by John Price-Wilkin as an
>alternate. I think we can assume she would serve if appointed.
>
>Other nominations for chair may be made, but they should be drawn from the
>list of volunteers, below, I think.
>
>
>TEI Migration Experts:
>
>[Sebastian Rahtz, if he agrees to serve on the workgroup, as chair or
>otherwise]
>
>Syun Tutiya
>Professor of Cognitive and Information Sciences, Chiba University
>Faculty of Letters, Chiba University
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0083.html
>
>
>
>TEI Repository Representatives:
>
>1. Chris Powell
>Coordinator, Humanities Text Initiative -- http://www.hti.umich.edu/
>Coordinator, Electronic Text Services -- http://ets.umdl.umich.edu/
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0079.html
>
>2. Natalia Smith
>+ Head of Digitization Section, manages the production of DocSouth
>+ 6 years of extensive experience working with TEI/SGML (after attending
>CETH Summer seminar in 1995)
>+ Member of the NDLF Task Force charged with creating "TEI Text Encoding
>in Libraries" guidelines, endorsed by the DLF
>+ I represent UNC-Chapel Hill in the TEI-C
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0108.html
>
>3. John A. Walsh, Manager, Electronic Text Technologies
>Digital Library Program / University Information Technology Services
>
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0084.html
>
>5. Michael Popham
>Head of the Oxford Text Archive
>http://ota.ahds.ac.uk/
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0090.html
>
>6. dr. Frans Wiering
>e-mail: frans.wiering at cs.uu.nl
>Thesaurus musicarum italicarum: http://www.euromusicology.org
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0104.html
>
>7. Alejandro Bia
>Head of the Research and Development dept. of the Miguel de Cervantes
>Digital Library at the University of Alicante.
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0111.html
>
>8. Sally Thomas
>Associate Director of the University of California History Digital Archives
>http://ishi.lib.berkeley.edu/cshe/projects/history/website.html
>The great majority of our TEI-Lite documents are currently located in a
>password-protected working directory at:
>http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2022/dynaweb/working/uchist/assembly/
>login: teitest
>pw: sgml
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0113.html
>
>9. Christine Ruotolo
>Associate Director, Electronic Text Center
>University of Virginia
>http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0114.html
>
>10. Tomaz Erjavec
>- the MULTEXT-East corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 7-way parallel
>- the IJS-ELAN corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, 2-way parallel
>- the FIDA corpus; morphosyntactically tagged, monolingual reference
>- the Concede lexicon; Bilingual MRD sample
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0112.html
>
>
>Questionable self-nominations--
>Vika Zafrin
>Works on the technical and content-editorial side of The Decameron Web at
>Brown University.
>http://www.brown.edu/decameron/
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0100.html
>
>Tobias Rischer
>The Critical and Synoptic Edition of James Joyce's Ulysses
>(under the direction of Hans Walter Gabler)
>http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/tei-council/0110.html
From grockwel at mcmaster.ca Mon Mar 4 10:44:59 2002
From: grockwel at mcmaster.ca (Geoffrey Rockwell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:44:59 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
Dear all,
It looks like the issue of chair is decided and it will be Chris. On
the issue of the participants I would forward the list to Chris and
leave it up to her. We should give her some room to add people that
she needs as the project evolves while also enlisting anyone who
volunteers in good faith.
yours,
Geoffrey R.
--
From david at dynamicdiagrams.com Mon Mar 4 11:48:04 2002
From: david at dynamicdiagrams.com (David G. Durand)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:48:04 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303204105.02888970@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
I didn't see Jessica on the list. Are there two migration projects,
or are you only looking for a certain subset of the group at the
moment.
-- David
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 12:11:52 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:11:52 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304080831.00ad2088@notes.rlg.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304121038.01d7fd00@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 08:14 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>A tardy response (apparently I being in the Pacific Time Zone is a
>disadvantage!)
>
>Having worked with Sally Thomas, I can say that she is not qualified to
>participate in this group, and move that her name be removed from the
>list. I can give a long diatribe, or you can trust me on this. I would
>not want to inflict her on our chair, and I think someone else who
>represents the interests of UC could be located.
Duly noted. I will remove her from the list of recommended participants.
>I think Chris would do a great job chairing the group.
It's looking like Chris may be our unanimous choice.
J.
From david at dynamicdiagrams.com Mon Mar 4 12:17:58 2002
From: david at dynamicdiagrams.com (David G. Durand)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:17:58 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID:
My previous note was intended for John Unsworth and probably won't
make sense to the rest of you. Apologies.
-- David
From lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk Mon Mar 4 13:38:14 2002
From: lou.burnard at computing-services.oxford.ac.uk (Lou Burnard)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:38:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: P4X -- last call?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304121038.01d7fd00@pop3.norton.antivirus>
Message-ID:
I have just updated the website/s with what the editors hope to be more or
less the final version of P4X, the XML version of P4 we plan to publish by
the end of March.
We'd be very grateful for notice of any obvious typographic blunders or
major errors introduced during revision, as soon as possible. Send them to
editors at tei-c.org so that both Syd and I will get a chance to act on
them.
Since the last version you saw, we have
- revised the chapter on XML substantially
- completely rewritten the chapter on charactersets (with much appreciated
help from the teichars working group)
- corrected zillions of stupid formatting blunders in examples etc.
- changed the stylesheets so as to include parents and children in the
tagdoc reference materials
-- remove residual references to SGML
-- oh all sorts of other things i can't remember, but syd probably can
All we plan to do now is fix any remaining really stupid errors, and
possibly also:
- add a bit on linking to HTML pages as per action from the London meeting
(David D?)
- maybe partition the tagset reference material so that the auxiliary
tagsets are separated out
But this is basically it.
Excelsior! on to P5!
Lou pp Syd
From jmu2m at virginia.edu Mon Mar 4 12:41:28 2002
From: jmu2m at virginia.edu (John Unsworth)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:41:28 -0500
Subject: NEH workgroup (vote required)
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304124057.01d1dff0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
At 11:48 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>I didn't see Jessica on the list. Are there two migration projects, or are
>you only looking for a certain subset of the group at the moment.