Re: [sixties-l] How Far we have not moved from the sixties anti-war protests ???

From: drieux (drieux@WETWARE.COM)
Date: Mon Nov 11 2002 - 01:00:15 EST

  • Next message: "[sixties-l] The Odd and Troubling Origins of Todays Anti-War Movement (fwd)"

    On Sunday, Nov 10, 2002, at 11:54 US/Pacific, rowdyh wrote:

    > Drieux.
    > Where was all this righteous indignation about DD 214s when we were
    > invading Haiti? Where was it when we attacked Serbia without a UN
    > resolution? Where was it?

    My compliments to your wit, presuming of course you are not
    attempting to advocate

            a) opposition to UN Peace Keeping Missions
            b) support for genocide, whether espoused as 'ethnic cleansing'
                    or in what ever garb the fashion may take...

    I will of course defer to the democrats in our midst, but I do
    seem to recall that many vets supported the draft-dodgers such
    as the Draft-Dodger-In-Chief George "Daddy got me into a deprecated
    technology" notTree,
    Gnewt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, et al, in the 'righteous indignation'
    against the Evil Clintons Vile Onslaught against the Dictatorship
    for Life, an invasion that sunk into becoming one more UN Peace Keeping
    Mission. As for the 'attacked Serbia' - you really will need to clarify
    if you mean when the Evil Clinton backed the Vile NATO kabal to support
    the islamicist extremists rebels in bosnia against the White Christian
    Serbia, or do you mean the totally botched air campaign against
    Greater Serbian Proper with regards to the Suppression of White
    Serbians protecting Christendom from the Vile Onslaught of Islamicist

    At the time I was rather enjoying the rhetorical devices about 'no more
    nation building' - especially in the light of their lack of kohesion as
    to what exactly the 'mission' had been in vietnam - what with the vet
    community itself still split between those who supported the 'hearts
    and minds' "stuff" and those who really knew that why if ONLY they had
    allowed unrestricted submarine warfare.... All made glorious with the
    current 'differences of perspective' between say how the 82nd reported
    their current 'sweep and secure' operations in 'pacified' Afghanistan,
    and how the Special Warfare Community reported those very same ops -
    as if someone had opted to use the Aurther Anderson accounting firm
    to 'book out' the Enron Style 'intermediation' between fact and
    Even though, apparently, judging by the liberal media coverage, and the
    habit of the current administration to refer to 'the war in afghanistan'
    as IF it were a past tense verbal thingie... You know, like 'no nation
    building' and all of that jazz.

    I guess my problem remains, why hasn't the draft-dodging community been
    able to make kissy face with itself? Why do the Rush Limbiots still
    have issues with the other folks who were draft dodgers and vice
    Can't you folks get over your 'big boy machismo' moments about who took
    the really butch anti-draft stand...

    I know I'm willing to back my VVAW brothers, as well as the John
    Birchers in the
    tribe, and we came out to back our Navy Vet Brother Country Joe when he
    brought the Wall to Bezerkley, even dragged my GenXers to the 30th
    of "The Summer of Love" - having failed to attend the original due to
    prior engagements, always sorta promised myself to take the rain check,
    as well as to give the 'kiddies' a chance to get it touch with their
    cultural roots.
    So yeah, while the civilian community is all stoked about resolving who
    was right about which war, at least, at the end of the day, the vet
    falls back upon one core and cherished principle.... The goal of war is
    to get back to peace time so that we can make liberty call... A reality
    check that seems to keep bouncing everytime that the draft-dodgers get
    confused about which rhetorical device they are backing this time...

    When one of my 'home boys' came back from Grenada and ran into the YAF,
    and took the ration of 'flag waving draft-dodging
    from them- he then dropped the hammer that while they had been Yapping,
    he had been in on the fun in the sun.... And all I could tell mojo was
    how far those kiddies still have not progressed. Still long on chat, and
    totally unwilling to go where their rhetoric rambles. Why Gosh, just
    the current crisis in america - bogged down in vietnam^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
    but of course without the White Shiney Hiney's of Suburban College Boys
    in the breaze exposed to the prospects of becoming the cannon fodder, I
    keeping track of that 'nation building operation' is still not Chic.
    just like what a lot of folks from the Moratorium were concerned about,
    with Nixon having axed the draft.... On the upside there is still some
    ability to
    focus on the prospects of maybe having that
    in the white house - gosh, follow through on his rhetoric, and actually
    embark upon a 'pre-emptive defensive war'... Like I am just sooooo
    my breath on that occuring any time soon.....

    Now don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect those who dodged the
    draft because
    they had solid and sound ethical commitment to live the life they
    advocated. Just
    as I am not impressed at all by anyone from the Vet Community who
    spaces out
    the differences between a 'legitimate operation' and 'illegal
    operations' - as
    may have been the case with the Maryland Sniper, and, oh, say the
    mining of
    the nicaraguan harbors without posting the NOTAMS as required under
    law - but if I recall the President at that Time Dodged the Draft by
    out in Hollywood allegedly attached as a 'cavalryman' to a 'signal corp
    but then again as a life long AFL-CIO type you know how those types
    are, and
    the military can only work on the base material they are given.... so
    we can
    all understand that complete lack of moral fibre and all....

    Why Gosh, that would mean that the Vet Community were a non-homogenous
    on par with there being gays, women, negoes and jews in both the
    and republican parties... SHOCK! SHOCK! be still my beating heart!!! I
    do you have any idea how hard it is at times to get the folks from the
    project community out? Yeah, tell me about those Act-Up Pride Parade
    and having to keep the card carrying union dues paying members of the
    Community from getting all Huffy at our closeted members.... As well as
    our closeted members up and on the Big Bus with the rest of us that
    yeah, it's
    been this way as long as I can remember, but be loud be proud, we're
    here and
    we're what ever we want to be....

    So Me, I'm back to kitten herding amongst the Vet Community, will
    please try to get those civilians organized into something that will
    as an organized rabble... When you folks finally figure out where the
    Civilian Community really stands on issues, Please send us your official
    representative with your official Civilian Community Agenda and
    for the better part of the last 40 years you folks have been way too
    fractured to be in any sense authoritative about where y'all stand on



    Not to put too fine a point on the problem, let's be honest,

    Doing Time In Vietnam

    was not a really good draft dodge, that could be at the core of the current democratic party malaise.... That the Republicans have been able to mostly get over the problem, as we saw with the 'pro-vet' position that Dubya showed McCain at least shows that they have been able to overcome their fears about being public about being draft-dodgers and anti-vets...

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