Ted Morgan wrote: First, there is precious, and I do mean precious, little difference --and none at all in terms of the outcome-- between "directly shooting down children" and, well, not "children being caught in the middle of a military action" which adopts a neutral framing for looking at the larger work, but children inevitably being in effect a central 'target' in a policy of indiscriminate violence from the air and an inevitable target population in village sweeps where troops encountered "suspected VC activity" and went in "dropping grenades in the hooches" or spraying village huts with automatic weapons fire, or 'going ballistic' and emptying a few rounds into a family hiding in their huts (after getting hit by enemy fire from the vicinity of the village). JW reply: The initial issue in this discussion was the linking of Isaraelis shooting rock throwing children and American policy in Vietnam. While I don't disagree with your abhorance of children being (or anybody for me) being caught in war, there is a difference between acts that result in harm to children incidentally and soldiers taking deliberate aim and firing on children as they are in Israel. As you say, not that the former is any better in the end, but it is different. A better comparison in the first place might have been between what is happening in Israel and what happened at Kent State. I would also dispute your assertation that children were a central target in Vietnam. Had there been no children there the actions would have been the same. Now if you want to argue that it is a crime that children get caught in this crap and we ought to do something about it, I am with you. TM wrote: Both of these --the indiscriminate air bombardment, use of napalm, etc.; and the village sweeps with all they entailed-- were routine and inherent aspects in the American war against a nationalist guerrilla movement grounded in the lives of the civilian population, as guerrilla movements are. VC atrocities are individually reprehensible, but one has to ask what fundamental "intervention" by the United States in 1954 (and France, again, in 1945-6) created the basis for this response. JW reply: The Devil Made Me Do It is not a good excuse for VC atrocities. Atrocities are atrocious, period. As far as the indiscriminate air bombardment and so on, these have been routine and inherent aspects of most wars, give or take technological ability. If you want to argue that they are wrong, then there is some merit to that, if you want to single out the US or any other power individually then you lose the moral basis for your opposition. At the end of the day one has to ask oneself: "Am I opposed to war and its horrors, or only to wars waged by certain parties?" TM wrote: I understand what Jerry is getting at --the horror we sense observing a soldier aiming his rifle at a child and killing him --because there is the "clarity" about what the soldier is doing. He is killing a child. But, to make this difference seem significant borders on the obscene in my mind, because it, in effect, suggests a degree of "legitimacy" or "justification" for actions which do precisely the same thing --kill children by the thousands.... JW reply: But it is significant, a consciencious and direct act on the part of an individual to shoot unarmed children is different from policy that incidentally results in injury and death to children, not that I support either. The question to be asking of the Israelis is are your soldiers shooting children as a matter of policy. If the answer is no then ask when we can expect to see the soldiers put on trial. >From your arguements I would gather that you condemn allied action in WWII as well as the acts of violence perpetrated on children and others by the Palestinians and the Moslem fanatics. Everybody is guilty of killing children and I question the mental diligence if not morals of anyone who wants to draw selective links between one act of violence and another that are not unique. -- Jerry West Editor/publisher/janitor ---------------------------------------------------- THE RECORD On line news from Nootka Sound & Canada's West Coast An independent, progressive regional publication http://www.island.net/~record/
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