Re: [sixties-l] Re: sixties-l- Horowitz vs. Blanfort

From: David Horowitz (
Date: Sun Sep 10 2000 - 16:21:44 CUT

  • Next message: Chris Shugart: "Re: [sixties-l] Re: sixties-l- Horowitz vs. Blanfort"

    > Well, a real discussion. That is a surprise, and a welcome one. You write, "If
    > you are black or brown, none of the above are true." Come again? If you are an
    > older black woman you are going to be asked for your ID more than if you are a
    > young white male? Don't think so. How many of the ID queries are racial, and
    > how many are because aspects of criminal profile are present? (You might want
    > to read my article on profiling "The Death of the Civil Rights Movement" at
    > before you reply). On what grounds are you making
    > the statement "black men and youth go to prison for crimes for which white
    > men and youth receive probation and counseling"? Are you aware that sentencing
    > is dependent not only on the nature of the crime but also the criminal profile
    > of the defendant. If this is just the tired and incredibly lame argument about
    > crack vs. powder cocaine, don't even bother to reply. As for the fact that we
    > have more prison inmates than any other (I won't bother check your facts)
    > doesn't it occur to you that this may have something to do with 1) enormous
    > personal freedom and upward mobility and 2) incomparably generous immigration
    > policies and lack of will to enforce even those (are you aware of how many
    > criminals come into this country annually as illegals).
    > What don't you understand about the fact that blacks are not only not leaving
    > this country but are dying (literally) to get in? What's your explanation if
    > it's not that life is better here for them than it would be anywhere they can
    > think of going? Oh, and you can stuff your privileged white male baloney.
    > You're not talking to the brainwashed politically correct here. One in three
    > black males are indeed convicted felons. This is a serious social problem that
    > has nothing to with racism (unless you want to talk about the leftwing racism
    > that produced the welfare system and destroyed inner city black families.)
    > Your implication that they are in jail because they lacked high paid legal
    > defense rather than that they are criminals is laughable. It's true that OJ
    > Simpson had high paid legal counsel and got off. It's also true that he killed
    > his wife and a stranger. So...
    > "Do you think (America's great wealth) was developed here?" Yes.
    > Your explanation of the deterioration of the economic and social environment
    > in Sub-Saharan Africa after independence just shows how ignorant of African
    > conditions you are. Unless you are complaining that the colonial powers didn't
    > root out tribalism. Because it's the combination of tribalism and socialism
    > that has taken Africa down. Lumumba has been dead forty years. What about the
    > misery Nkrumah inflicted on Ghana, Mugabe on Zimbabwe and so on. How do you
    > blame Europe for the massacres in Rwanda? Why is South Africa now the rape and
    > murder capital of the world with a raging AIDS epidemic and a leader who
    > thinks the AIDS virus is a western plot?
    > Cuba. Well, Jeffrey, I give up mentally on this one. Have you read nothing but
    > NACLA reports since 1959? Castro was not forced into the arms of the Soviet
    > Union, he leaped into them (I can't believe I'm having to argue this in
    > 2000). He was a Communist in 1954 (check this out with Saul Landau, who is
    > one of those who testifies to this). Secondly, the aid the Soviets gave $6
    > billion a year to a country with only 6 million people at the time (you do the
    > math) is unprecedented. Third, the Soviet relationship has been dead for 10
    > years. What has Castro done since to diversify? He's turned Cuba into a whore
    > house. I won't even go into the education and health propaganda (what good,
    > Jeffrey, is an education system which indoctrinates 6 years olds in
    > totalitarian clap trap? of what benefit is a health system that has no
    > medicines?). This is a country which was the second richest in per capita
    > income in all of Latin America in 1959. It's now a nation where people ride
    > bicycles instead of automobiles and eat meat twice a month. Get a better
    > excuse.
    > Since you're argument is always the devil made them do it (do you really think
    > US capitalists made Mexico a corrupt one-party state for all those years?), to
    > the clear as day cases. 1) Hong Kong's economy has the highest concentration
    > of foreign investment in the world, and its people have the highest per capita
    > incomes of any people in Asia. 2) Before the Korean War, North Korea was the
    > industrial heartland of Korea. There is a war. Both sides are devastated.
    > South Korea becomes what you would call a neo-colony of the United States. The
    > result for South Korea is a fantastic economic boom, entry into the world of
    > industrial nations with the per capita income to go with it, an economy more
    > competitive internationally than the Soviet Union at its zenith (you have
    > probably bought a Korean made VCR, for example; I'll bet you have never bought
    > anything from the Soviet Union but vodka and caviar), and a fledging democracy
    > (not very good, but probably better than Mexico's). On other hand North Korea
    > adopted those socialist policies you and Fidel love so much. Result: An
    > economic basket case with mass starvation as recently as the last few years
    > and Stalinoid demi-god for a ruler in what is a rigid totalitarian state.
    > Is this example of why you are 100% wrong about the impact of foreign
    > investment and U.S. protrection clear enough?
    > My question: "Do you think that the trillions in wealth
    > > that Microsoft has generated comes out of the sweat of the working class?"
    > Your answer: "Not directly, but it came from somewhere. Suppose that Nike's
    > Phillip
    > Knight has contributed his share and made his own bundle with Microsoft.
    > Every dime he makes comes from exploited labor." This is priceless Jeffrey. I
    > wonder that you didn't bring in the price of beer in Siberia. As for "it came
    > from somewhere" -- if you are not a Marxist as you coyly try to imply next in
    > your post, why would you even ask such a question? It comes from supplying a
    > need that is so useful to so many people that they are willing to pay
    > trillions for it.
    > Of course I never called your students naive for wanting equal rights, equal
    > treatment, equal justice say with the ethnic majority, whatever that is these
    > days. As a Jew, Jeffrey I don't exactly identify with the white bogeyman
    > ruling group you try to create with your perverse fantasies of exploitation
    > and oppression. If instead of indoctrinating your students with discredited
    > totalitarian doctrines like Marxism (your entire teaching method, as described
    > in your posts, is a violation of their academic freedom by the way), you
    > taught to them to think about the world practically, you would them this:
    > "Human nature being what it is, minorities in all the human cutlures that have
    > ever been recorded have a somewhat harder time getting equal treatment and
    > respect. And this will probably always be the case. That said, minorities in
    > America have more rights, more privileges, more freedom than minorities
    > anywhere else have or have had since the beginning of time. Moreover, the
    > beauty of America is that it promises equality to everyone regardless of race,
    > color or creed. That opens the possibility that things will be even better
    > tomorrow.
    > "However we have to fight for this possibility. Unfortunately in America there
    > is a powerful movement on the left to erase the principles of equality that
    > Americans have struggled so hard to establish. The left is a throwback to 19th
    > Century and even 18th Century prejudices that want to undo the great bourgeois
    > revolutions of those times which overthrew the aristocracies based on status
    > and established individual rights and liberty. Leftists want to re-institute
    > status and group identity as a basis for social order. They want create pariah
    > groups and privileged groups, based entirely on skin color, or gender or
    > ethnicity. Before we can advance in America to even greater levels of racial
    > and ethnic equality we have to defeat this left which is poisoning the minds
    > of our young with racial and ethnic prejudice and hatred, much of it directed
    > towards the institutions and culture of this land itself. These leftists are
    > the priests of a destructive religion. They will try to convince you that you
    > are controlled by alien powers. Patriarchies and ruling classes and dominant
    > races. These leftists will try to convince you that you are victims and that
    > nothing you do, no crime you commit, no failure to perform is your
    > responsibility. It's all because of them. This is a perfectly crippling
    > message that will prevent you from ever realizing your own power if you
    > believe it. If other people control you, if the system is rigged against you,
    > why should you try to succeed at all? In fact the greatest obstacle you will
    > face in improving your lot in this life if you are black or brown is not the
    > occasional bigot you will meet, but the seduction of a political left that
    > doesn't really give a damn about you or your people, but only about its own
    > gratification and self-serving agendas. If you give these false prophets your
    > soul, you will spend your life in fruitless self-pity, petty resentment, and
    > alienation. You will withold yourself from the political and economic
    > mainstream of American life. You will blame others for what you should
    > probably take responsibility for yourself. You will forgo every opporunity to
    > learn about yourself, to improve yourself, and to compete. You will have
    > squandered the greatest opportunity the world as it really exists has to
    > offer."

    > You, Jeffrey, are the worst nightmare these students will have to face.

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