Re: [sixties-l] a plea

From: David Smith (
Date: Wed Jun 14 2000 - 01:07:14 CUT

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    It's not Mr. Horowitz or any other individual it is the use of name calling
    and disparaging remarks that should be rejected.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jeffrey Apfel <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 6:07 PM
    Subject: Re: [sixties-l] a plea

    > Ted Morgan wrote:
    > >
    > > List folks should realize
    > > there's no real enlightenment to be gained by an "exchange" with David
    > > Horowitz on this one [snip] If necessary, perhaps the moderator could
    > > a little
    > > more pro-active in screening ad hominem attacks, at an earlier point in
    > > the discussion.
    > I don't understand what you mean that no real enlightenment is to be
    > by an exchange with Horowitz on this point. It seems tantamount to saying
    > that everyone's mind is made up and that is that. To my mind, the list is
    > valuable for precisely the reason that it creates a forum for different
    > takes, sometimes wildly different takes, on the era. No historical period
    > is so singular and unique--no matter how it "felt" at the time--that new
    > insights cannot be gained from sincere interchanges with those with whom
    > have profound disagreements.
    > David crossed the line with one of his comments using the word "dumb", but
    > later semi-apologized for it and agreed to abide by the moderator's rules.
    > I think on balance he has done so. Taking issue with "the left", which is
    > admittedly his stock in trade, is not an ad hominem attack and ought to be
    > debated as what it is: a considered opinion from someone who has had
    > thoughts.
    > If you read the postings over the last few days, you will find a lot more
    > heat emanating from Horowitz's critics than from Horowitz himself. It
    > seem odd to blame him for this state of affairs. So while I think it
    > be sad to lose members who feel frustrated by Horowitz's presence, the
    > that they may exit should have no bearing on the continued need for the
    > exchange of ideas.
    > I've read a lot of Horowitz from Ramparts to Radical Son. While there is
    > doubt that he is a skilled polemicist, and can be brutal outside the
    > confines of this listserv, that has no bearing here. Plus, while I never
    > personally felt the need to ditch Marx for Hayek (never being a Marxist in
    > the first instance, I suppose), I find many of his criticisms on point. I
    > could be wrong about them being on point, of course, but that is why the
    > dialogue is so valuable and needs to continue. If people throttle the
    > dialogue, they'll only be underscoring David's point about the left, and
    > I'll be left to ponder what that means.
    > Jeff Apfel

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