I certainly agree with your main points. I wasn't trying to be argumentative.
Only, I grew up in the old CP, born in 1943. Went through the McCarthy period with
my dad (a Spanish Civil War vet) underground and then convicted under the Smith
Act. I guess I don't fit the profile you have created, joining SDS in 1966, after
the whites were asked to leave SNCC, and working in the leadership in 1968-69. By
that time, most of the WW2 babies who had formed early SDS were gone. Actually, the
old party restled and split several times over the patriotism thing and American
Exceptionalism and one of the first debates I remember in SDS was over whether the
"Don't Tread on Me" flag offered up by a dear supporter, Johnny Rossen, was to
become SDS' symbol.
Marty Jezer wrote:
> Your making an argument where none exists.
> I observed that those of us who remember the war experience (as kids, not
> as mature political activists) had a more positive, patriotic feeling
> towards the country than those who
> first became aware of the the larger world during the fifties and the Cold
> War era when social and political alienation had set in.
> And I agree with your last paragraph. But the illusions of the older,
> pre-boomer generation
> were stronger because those who had a remembrance of the war years
> experienced this country at one of the few times in history when it was
> united on high moral ground. (Not to say the C.O.s who resisted the war
> were altogether wrong in their analysis of the war, but they were a small
> minority and unknown to the public).
> I'll qualify the sentence about the country being united and moral by
> saying that this was the perception of white pre-boomers, not
> African-Americans who experienced the country as thorougly racist. But
> I'll also add that patriotic emotions were likely the experience of
> pre-boomer red diaper babies who grew up during the era of the Popular
> Front when communism was described as Amercan as apple pie (Listen to the
> Almanac Singers after Hitler invaded the USSR) and we allied with "Uncle
> Joe" in the great war against fascism. On the other hand, the red diaper
> babies, given the hell their families went through during the fifties, lost
> their illusions well before the Vietnam era.
> Marty Jezer
> At 09:41 PM 6/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:
> >What are you saying? That babies born during the war were more patriotic that
> >babies born three years later? That SDSers born before '45 (I was one)
> >a "high" off of the wartime unity? That those who militantly opposed the war
> >or who
> >fought in the streets in '68 were "dumping" on the country?
> >I think that the escalation of the barbaric Vietnam war, witnessed through
> >the mass
> >media, combined with the failure of racial integration by the late '60,
> >blew away
> >many of the liberal illusions held by both generations.
> >Mike Klonsky
> >Marty Jezer wrote:
> >> Both Neil and Ted talk about generations as the marker of the sixties. As
> >> Ted says, the activists were of mixed ages, many baby boomers were (and
> >> are) conservative; indeed, there is a revisionist book waiting to be
> >> written that claims the sixties' baby boomers were the shock troops of the
> >> Reagan Revolution and that the sixties radicals were an irrelevant
> >> aberration (it's not the book I'd write, or the argument I'd make, but
> >> there is an argument that could be made).
> >> I've always thought that there were two generations involved in the shaping
> >> of the sixties. The pre-baby boomers born just before the war (and who
> >> remember the experience of wartime America) and those born as the war was
> >> ending or in the post war, the true baby-boomers.
> >> I would argue that the founders of the sds, the activists in the early days
> >> of sncc, the organizers of the counter-culture and the woman's movement
> >> were pre-baby boomers.
> >> Tom Hayden, John Lewis, Robert Moses, Barbara Haber, most of the early
> >> sixties' feminists, Abbie Hoffman, the Merrie Pranksters, diggers, first
> >> communards etc., were all pre-baby boom. They did most of the organizing up
> >> until, say, about 1967, when the real baby boomers came into the movement
> >> either as hippies, draft resisters, college sds'ers, feminists, etc.
> >> The experience of the war shaped the politics of the organizer generation,
> >> the pre-baby boomers. We (I was born in 1940) came to consciousness during
> >> the war and, though very young, experienced the great wave of patriotism
> >> and sacrifice that defined the war effort.
> >> I remember big Memorial Day parades down the Grand Concorse in the Bronx at
> >> the end of the war. I waved my little flag, stood at attention and would go
> >> down to the local army and navy store to buy (and collect) military
> >> insignias and buttons. (During the Vietnam Era I was active in draft
> >> resistance." Everyone had relatives and neighbors in the military. We knew
> >> the enemy. I remember "Paul's fruit and vegetable store" where my mother
> >> shopped having a huge poster with pictures of Hitler, Mussoulini and Tojo.
> >> These images and the feelings of patriotism were very powerful. In my
> >> biography of Abbie Hoffman I tell how he admired his uncles who served, how
> >> he loved the idea of the American Revolution, visited Lexington and
> >> Concord, considered Sam Adams his hero.
> >> We -- the pre-boomers -- saw the civil rights movement as a patriotic
> >> movement, trying to force the country to live up to the ideas we believed
> >> in and imbibed as kids. The early anti-war demonstrations also had that
> >> feeling of patriotism. Someone, Carl Oglesby, I think, said of the U.S.
> >> government in Vietnam that "it broke my American heart." (I forget the
> >> exact quote). As the civil rights movement was repressed and the war became
> >> central we, as a generation, got angry and moved left. But that early
> >> patriotism had an effect. We felt betrayed, angry, wanted our country back.
> >> Those younger, who filled the ranks of the movement after 67, didn't
> >> experience the wartime high. They didn't feel betrayed, they were merely
> >> angry. They could dump on the country because they felt alienated from it
> >> at the start. My sense is that when this younger generation came into power
> >> in the movement (in SDS Carl Davidson rather than Carl Oglesby) the
> >> movement became more anti-American, because the leaders never experienced
> >> the emotional sense of belonging that came during the second world war.
> >> True, some of the older people, Hayden for one, went along with that
> >> nihilistic anger. (But then he went back to his roots and became a
> >> left-wing Democrat -- and would have supported Bobby Kennedy if he had
> >> survived to run for President).
> >> But the point is that World War IIK shaped the way the pre-boomers reacted
> >> to the activism of the 1960s.
> >> Which generation had the right perspective about America is another
> >> question. I would say that people like myself, who believe in American
> >> ideals, are romantics bound to be let down over and over again because the
> >> ideals, for the most part, are not real. On the other hand, the North
> >> Vietnamese were shocked at the anti-war movement's anti-Americanism. They
> >> told us over and over that you have to love your country in order to
> >change it.
> >> But that's another thread. This one is about how new left and anti-war
> >> activism encompassed two very different generations.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Marty Jezer
> >> At 12:13 PM 6/5/2000 -0400 Ted Morgan wrote:
> >> >.....
> >> >
> >> >Quite a few of these recent posts --the "generation-divided" discussion,
> >> >reflections on changes in
> >> >us over the years, New Left/ New Right, the discussion of 60s
> >"revolution" and
> >> >nostalgic/
> >> >anti-nostalgic takes on the 60s-- touch on something I've been thinking a
> >> >about .................
> >> --
> >> Marty Jezer * 22 Prospect St. * Brattleboro, VT 05301 * p/f 802 257-5644
> >> Author:
> >> Stuttering: A Life Bound Up in Words (Basic Books)
> >> Abbie Hoffman: American Rebel (Rutgers University Press)
> >> The Dark Ages: Life in the USA, 1945-1960 (South End Press)
> >> Rachel Carson [American Women of Achievement Series] (Chelsea House)
> >> Check out my web page: http://www.sover.net/~mjez
> >> To subscribe to my Friday commentary, simply request to be put on my
> >> mailing list. It's free!
> Marty Jezer * 22 Prospect St. * Brattleboro, VT 05301 * p/f 802 257-5644
> Stuttering: A Life Bound Up in Words (Basic Books)
> Abbie Hoffman: American Rebel (Rutgers University Press)
> The Dark Ages: Life in the USA, 1945-1960 (South End Press)
> Rachel Carson [American Women of Achievement Series] (Chelsea House)
> Check out my web page: http://www.sover.net/~mjez
> To subscribe to my Friday commentary, simply request to be put on my
> mailing list. It's free!
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Jun 07 2000 - 02:35:08 CUT