From: ARON KAY* <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: Weathermen & Selling Out (Multiple Responses)
hey some of these sell-outs need to realize the depth of how they
betrayed the cause via a flying pie....david horowitz sure can use
meringue.......however the weather folks never copped out
--ARON KAY......http://www.pieman.org http://www.calyx.net/~pieman IGNORANCE IS THE OPIATE OF THE MASSES ICQ# 1042567 ______________________________________
[2]
From: T Bruce Tober <octobersdad@reporters.net> Subject: Re: Weathermen & Selling Out (Multiple Responses)
>I'd argue that some people active in the sixties did "sell-out", though I >don't see how Rudd was one of them. David Horowitz might be a better >candidate.
And, of course, Jerry Rubin.
>have you noticed that some of us have >became cynical?
No. No more so than we were back then. And that was and is healthy.
>From: Stephen Denney <sdenney@igc.apc.org> >Subject: Re: Weathermen and Sell-Outs (multiple responses) > >To me, selling out would mean he never >really lost his political beliefs, just felt it would be more lucrative >to espouse an opposing belief system.
In which case you'd be wrong. His views obviously changed, did a full 180. And whether it was more lucrative to espouse his own or an opposing belief system is part of what determines whether one sold out or not. I suppose I could have been a rich and famous media figure too if I'd taken his path, but my principals wouldn't allow me to.
>Personally, I think on the left there has always been an element of sell >out in the willingness to overlook the flaws of favored Marxist regimes, >such as North Vietnam during the war, China during the Cultural >Revolution or Cuba today.
That's not sell out, it's perhaps naivete or ignorance, or refusal to believe the propaganda of the opposition. The right claim they won the cold war and Russia and communism were defeated. Well if winning the war means turning an entire nation of people who had at least some semblance of a job, a home, food and self-pride into a nation of poverty-stricken, increasingly jobless and homeless people increasingly lacking in self- respect (except for the new and huge Russian Mafia and the new and relatively tiny Russian red-braces brigade), then I for one hope the new Russian revolution comes very soon.
>It is inconsistent to champion the cause of the >oppressed while ignoring the plight of the most oppressed (such as >political prisoners) in the model Marxist regimes; or even defending >inhumane treatment against those out of favor in these regimes.
It is inconsistent to champion the cause of free market capitalism when the results of implementing it are so devastating to the population involved. Nothing is perfect, get used to it.
tbt -- |Bruce Tober, <octobersdad@reporters.net>, <http://www.crecon.demon.co.uk>| | Birmingham, UK, EU +44-121-242-3832. Freelance Journalist, & Website | | consultancy and development. PGP key ID material my website | ____________________________
[3]
From: Ron Jacobs <rjacobs@zoo.uvm.edu> Subject: Re: Weathermen & Selling Out (Multiple Responses)
>Personally, I think on the left there has always been an element of sell >out in the willingness to overlook the flaws of favored Marxist regimes, >such as North Vietnam during the war, China during the Cultural >Revolution or Cuba today. It is inconsistent to champion the cause of the >oppressed while ignoring the plight of the most oppressed (such as >political prisoners) in the model Marxist regimes; or even defending >inhumane treatment against those out of favor in these regimes. > > - Steve Denney >sdenney@igc.org >
I would argue in return that there is a major difference between overlooking the flaws in the regimes you mention (although I do not believe Cuba today is not in the same league as China during the Cultural revolution) and providing those regimes with critical support. Horowitz was someone who swung from uncritical support of the left to uncritical support of the right--this sounds like selling out to me. In addition, he made money from both adventures. Politics requires more than an emotional commitment--it requires intellectual critique--something Horowitz has never shown no matter which direction he was heading....
ron jacobs...