Re: Socrates/Bush

Todd Andrew Pontius (tap6u@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU)
Thu, 19 Sep 1996 21:10:09 -0400 (EDT)

Hey Guys-
Here's my response to the question Dr. Unsworth asked us to
answer... sorry it's a bit late. Email me if you have any
questions or if you want to find out what kind of crack i've
been smoking...

If Socrates Had Been A Weightlifter

As to the question regarding whether or not machines
can think for themselves, I think that Socrates would
definitely say that they cannot. Machines must be designed,
constructed and programmed by human beings and as a result
computers come with all the baggage that comes with being
human. The processes (that in a human being we would call
thinking) that computers can perform are confined to a narrow
spectrum, limited both by available materials and "conceivable"
designs.

Regarding the question concerning whether or not
machines can help us think, I actually get the idea that
Socrates would think that what we would lose therough using
computers would outweigh what we would gain. Socrates seems to
place lot of significance on the soul; rightly so, he's a
philosopher after all. Socrates also seemed disappointed in
the fact that people would know longer truly "know" texts
anymore, after the advent of the written word. I think in some
ways that he would see computers as elaborate slates onto which
information can be placed, and I think in the Phaedrus he
stresses the importance of information in the head and the
information that results from discourse. Ever try to have a
conversation with a computer?? Of course, you can get a MOO
and talk to someone in Toledo about computers, but you could
call them on the phone too. MOOs are still text-based, and I
think that Socrates sees the written word as a layer that
prevents people from getting to (uh...geez) ideas in
themselves. I think this applies to AI as well.

I'm going to be a big chicken and claim devil's
advocacy here, mainly knowing what I know about how television
has changed the way we think (as per Marshall McLuhan). As far
as comparing Bush to Socrates on the point of the cognitive
process, I think that if Socrates had been a weighlifter he
might use an analogy like the one that occured to me while
thinking about this. This is all highly conjectural (of
course), but just keep reading for awhile.

This is Socrates' response to this quote from Bush:

"...every time one combines and records facts in accordance
with established logical processes, the creative aspect of
thinking is concerned only with the selection of the data and
the process to be employed and the manipulation thereafter is
repetitive in nature and hence a fit matter to be relegated to
the machine..."

When you lift weights using Nautilus machines, you are
getting stronger; you're lifting more weight than you normally
would and and the resistance builds muscle. When you lift free
weights (like dumbells and "Olympic" lifts like cleans and
snatch) you build what my old weights coach called "stabilizing
muscles." Stabilizing muscles are what allow you to hold the
bar and stand up straight, and they're what keeps Olympic
weightlifters from falling over when thye lift the bar over
their heads. When you lift bars in fixed arcs and pull strings
attached to pulleys (like with Nautilus machines), you don't
build these muscle groups. Now, let's apply this metaphor to
the way we think. When you let the computer organize and
structure all of your thoughts, your ability to see spatial
relationships and lay things out in you head might just atrophy
and fall off. By not doing these things for yourself you would
lose the ability to do these things. Bush wants a playset for
the mind, but we already have such a thing (they're called
thought problems). Maybe if Socrates had been a weightlifter he
might have used this argument...
I also think that Bush has an agenda that may color how
he feels about computers. He opens his essay with a discussion
of the post-war years, and how scientists have left the war
years behind with a new feeling of fellowship. In addition to
the warm fuzzies, scientists also had to deal with the fact
that they created weapons of mass destruction, weapons that the
world had never seen before. His belief in the peace- time use
of computers (and the peacetime use of other types of war-time
technology) might be more a hope that something good could come
from so much tragedy. This need to redeem scientists and
science as a whole might make him think that hypertext systems
are the greatest things since sliced bread.

This is all highly conjectural and a more than a little bit
silly, but whaddaya think??

MOOing with you kids was crazy - a big headache, but exciting
as well. My vote for music to listen to when MOOing is
actually what i'm listening to right now... this great sampler
of trip-hop (sub-genre of techno) from the UK... appropriately
"modern" and upbeat enuff...

See you in class unless hordes of locusts cancel it,
Todd P.