15.040 interactive content

From: by way of Willard McCarty (willard@lists.village.Virginia.EDU)
Date: Wed May 23 2001 - 03:12:02 EDT

  • Next message: by way of Willard McCarty: "15.041 obstacles to humanities computing"

                    Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 40.
           Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London

       [1] From: "J. Randolph Radney" <radney@twu.ca> (7)
             Subject: 15.036 interactive content

       [2] From: lachance@chass.utoronto.ca (Francois Lachance) (23)
             Subject: Re: 15.036 interactive content

       [3] From: cbf@socrates.Berkeley.EDU (145)
             Subject: Re: 15.036 interactive content

             Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:58:24 +0100
             From: "J. Randolph Radney" <radney@twu.ca>
             Subject: 15.036 interactive content

    Most interesting comments, Willard, and, as usual, "right on". For reader
    interested in exploring some further interesting ideas relating to the
    nature of human perception of objects, might I recommend a book by Brian
    Cantwell Smith (trust this is not "old news"!): _On the origin of objects_
    a relevant URL is http://www.ageofsig.org/people/bcsmith/book.html, and the
    book may be ordered from MIT Pr.


             Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 07:59:35 +0100
             From: lachance@chass.utoronto.ca (Francois Lachance)
             Subject: Re: 15.036 interactive content

    O Willard, the purist,

    Just to clarify. I was not suggesting that game software replace access
    to a machine readable source text. I have very much in mind a layered
    model and very much in mind a suite or archive which can be shared and
    built upon/around. I recognize that juxtaposing Goldfarb et al. with Peter
    Shillingsburg may have led one to believe I was endorsing "interactive
    content" as author-driven and imposing restrictions on the reader (shades
    and echoes of the hypertext discussion about the freedom to navigate at
    will where the degree of freedom depends upon the degree of knowledge
    about the artefact and the interface software [i.e. browser]).

    Initiation into the use of the library, I might add is facilitated by the
    search-and-document exercies that one finds in a good introductory course
    the social reproduction of researchers. The struggle for legitimacy that a
    field such a humanities computing faces is in part due to the envy of
    those that would dismiss it on the grounds that:

            it's too much fun, it's too hard

    I look forward to reading reactions to your question about the
    place of object-oriented programming in humanities computing. I'm sure it
    will be fun and if it's too too hard, there is always the chance to trot
    off and learn something.

    Francois Lachance, Scholar-at-large
    20th : Machine Age :: 21st : Era of Reparation

    --[3]------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 08:06:19 +0100 From: cbf@socrates.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: 15.036 interactive content

    One need not go so far as to intermix coding and software to have interactivity. I do believe that the dynamic text (ACH/ALLC 1989) was precisely about this, the delivery of electronic editions with software packages that would make them usable.

    There are currently _massive_ quantities of electronic text available for free on the web, some of it encoded to quite high standards; but if you haven't got software designed to work to those standards, then about all you can do with the texts is single word searching.

    Charles Faulhaber The Bancroft Library UC Berkeley, CA 94720-6000 (510) 642-3782 FAX (510) 642-7589 cfaulhab@library.berkeley.edu

    On Tue, 22 May 2001, Humanist Discussion Group wrote:

    > > Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 15, No. 36. > Centre for Computing in the Humanities, King's College London > <http://www.princeton.edu/~mccarty/humanist/> > <http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/humanist/> > > [1] From: David Zeitlyn <D.Zeitlyn@ukc.ac.uk> (22) > > > [2] From: Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@bowerbird.rmit.edu.au> (29) > Subject: Re: 15.030 interactive content > > [3] From: Willard McCarty <willard.mccarty@kcl.ac.uk> (26) > Subject: keep it clean! (of software) > > > --[1]------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:00:34 +0100 > From: David Zeitlyn <D.Zeitlyn@ukc.ac.uk> > Subject: Re: 15.030 interactive content > > > We have included interactivity in some of the Experience Rich Anthropology > project > > For example, you can draw your own genealogical tree > > era.anthropology.ac.uk/Kinship > or (my particular hobby horse) play with a simulation of Mambila spider > divination > era.anthropology.ac.uk/spider.html (read about the background at > era.anthropology.ac.uk/Divination) > I hope this helps and is fun! > david > > > -- > Dr David Zeitlyn, > Senior Lecturer in Social Anthropology, > Centre for Social Anthropology and Computing, > Department of Anthropology, > Eliot College, The University of Kent, > Canterbury, > CT2 7NS, UK. > Tel. +44 (0)1227 823360 (Direct) > Tel: +44 (0)1227 823942 (Office) > Fax +44 (0)1227 827289 > http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/dz/ > > > > > --[2]------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 07:00:57 +0100 > From: Adrian Miles <adrian.miles@bowerbird.rmit.edu.au> > Subject: Re: 15.030 interactive content > > At 6:35 +0100 21/5/2001, Humanist Discussion Group wrote: > >2. > >Does the anthropology of games feature in any of the MA programs currently > >offered or being developed in the field of Humanities Computing? > > I believe that Espen Aarseth of the Department of Humanistic Informatics at > the University of Bergen is in the process of developing some pedagogical > material around such themes. I also believe Stuart Moulthrop of the > University of Baltimore has been working and teaching around the computer > game recently, but I'm unsure of the extent to which this is formalised in > their program (and they are not Humanities Computing). Andrew > > Stuarts url is: > http://raven.ubalt.edu/staff/moulthrop/ > > Espen's is: > http://www.hf.uib.no/hi/espen/ > but I think you'll find it's very out of date. > > I'd be surprised if Andrew Mactavish (McMaster - a colleague of Geoffrey > Rockwell's) isn't teaching something on games in their excellent Multimedia > undergrad. program. > http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~mactavis/ > > for those not up to date games are very much a new field being rapidly > colonised, from memory there are 3 international conferences on games this > year. There's already been in in Denmark, one is coming up in Bristol, and > I believe there's a third but I may be mistaken (and I don't remember > where...). > > cheers > adrian miles > -- > > lecturer in new media and cinema studies > + media studies. rmit [http://hypertext.rmit.edu.au] > + institutt for medievitenskap. university of bergen [http://media.uib.no] > > --[3]------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 06:58:25 +0100 > From: Willard McCarty <willard.mccarty@kcl.ac.uk> > Subject: keep it clean! (of software) > > In Humanist 15.030 Francois Lachance quotes Goldfarb et al (1998) and Peter > Shillingsburg, Literary Text in the Digital Age, on the desirability of > "interactive content", which I take as support for an argument that > "content" -- nevermind the philosophical problem in this weasel-word -- > should have software intermixed. This, it seems to me, pushes us toward > dangerous ground. Our great model for aggregated but loosely organised > knowledge, the library, achieves much of its long-term utility from keeping > books and their uses quite separate. Do we really want to encode uses, ways > of reading, into our sources? Would this not be in many if not most cases > to limit these sources to current ideas about how they should be read? > > I am aware that declarative encoding does somewhat of the same thing, e.g. > a "this is a chapter" tag is much more specific than a page starting with > some extra blank space with a number in the middle of that space. > Nevertheless, as I understand good markup practice -- comments here please > -- one tries VERY hard not to tell the reader how to navigate through a > text &c. > > For the above reasons I wonder seriously about the object-orientated > approach to computational life. I can see that perhaps the question is a > matter of fine tuning -- some primitive operations might not be so > restrictive as I fear. Comments from those who know about this stuff? > > Yours, > WM > > > > > ----- > Dr Willard McCarty / Senior Lecturer / > Centre for Computing in the Humanities / King's College London / > Strand / London WC2R 2LS / U.K. / > +44 (0)20 7848-2784 / ilex.cc.kcl.ac.uk/wlm/ > >

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