[1] From: Jim Marchand <marchand@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> (42)
Subject: to pay the penny
[2] From: Neil Fulton <nfulton@oup.co.uk> (26)
Subject: Re: 13.0302 "to pay the penny"
[3] From: Paul Brians <brians@mail.wsu.edu> (13)
Subject: Augustine quotation?
--[1]------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:34:16 +0000
From: Jim Marchand <marchand@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: to pay the penny
I am not sure how much information is needed in this question, so this may
be overload from an old medievalist.
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:11:49 +0000
From: Phyllis Wright <pwright@spartan.ac.brocku.ca>
Can someone provide the meaning for the phrase "to pay the penny" as used
in the following which I believe is from a translation of a sermon by
Alfric.
"Verily from the eleventh hour the chief of the house [begged] to pay the
penny, when he led the thief into the kingdom of heaven, before he led
Peter or his other apostles, and rightly so, for the thief believed in
Christ at a time when his apostles were in great doubt".
Thanks so much,
Phyllis Wright
Phyllis M. Wright
Head, Reference & Information Services Department
James A. Gibson Library
Brock University
St. Catharines, Ontario
Canada L2S 3A1
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Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 20:02:37 +0000
From: "Joseph Jones (UBC Library)" <jjones@interchange.ubc.ca>
Re: pay the penny
How about Matthew 20 as background?
There is a penny paid, there is the eleventh hour, there is the
goodman of the house.
Joseph Jones University of British Columbia Library
jjones@unixg.ubc.ca http://www.library.ubc.ca/jones
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Both Jones and Wright are right. This is from a sermon by Aelfric, badly
translated, on the Gospel reading for Septuagesima Sunday, Matth. 20.1-16. M.
Godden, _Aelfric's Catholic Homilies: the Second Series. Text._ EETS s. s. 5
(London, 1979), p. 46. The entire homily is pp. 41-51. Aelfric translates
the Latin text and then offers a homily on it. He expounds in the following
way: (p. 42): Se hyredes ealdor is ure scyppend `The householder is our
Creator'. Then he equates those who come at the eleventh hour with the good
thief at the crucifixion. The OE text reads: "Verily from the last the
householder began to pay the penny, when He led the thief into the kingdom of
heaven before He led Peter or his other apostles." He has already told us the
householder is Christ. A typical sermon of the day.
!
Jim Marchand.
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Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:34:52 +0000
From: Neil Fulton <nfulton@oup.co.uk>
Subject: Re: 13.0302 "to pay the penny"
"Joseph Jones (UBC Library)" <jjones@interchange.ubc.ca> writes:
> Re: pay the penny
>
> How about Matthew 20 as background?
> There is a penny paid, there is the eleventh hour, there is the
> goodman of the house.
Correct. The text is from Aelfric's homily for Septuagesima,
which interprets the parable from Matthew 20 allegorically: God
is the owner of the vineyard (the world), and the workers he hires
at various times of the day represent the prophets sent through
history, the eleventh hour being the time between the incarnation
and the end of the world. Those who were hired at the eleventh
hour, including the thief who was crucified with Christ, are the
first to be paid.
The translation is accurate, with one exception:
> "Verily from the eleventh hour the chief of the house [begged] to
> pay the penny, when he led the thief into the kingdom of heaven,
> before he led Peter or his other apostles, and rightly so, for the
> thief believed in Christ at a time when his apostles were in great
> doubt".
The verb in the first sentence is "ongann", which means "began",
not "begged".
Neil
-- Neil Fulton Sen. Asst. Editor (Etymology) Oxford English Dictionary--[3]------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:35:28 +0000 From: Paul Brians <brians@mail.wsu.edu> Subject: Augustine quotation?
If anyone has an e-text of Augustine's Confessions handy I would be grateful if you could see whether, as a Jesuit correspondent suggests, the following passage from Walter M. Miller's A Canticle For Leibowitz is indeed from that book:
Repugnans tibi, ausus sum quaerere quidquid doctius mihi fide, certius spe, aut dulcius caritate visum esset. Quis itaque stultior me
Rough translation:
Resisting you, I have dared to seek whatever seemed to me to be more learned than Faith, more certain than Hope, sweeter than Love
Paul Brians, Department of English Washington State University Pullman, WA 99164-5020 brians@wsu.edu http://www.wsu.edu/~brians
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