6.0426 Teaching Languages with NEWS (1/672)
Elaine Brennan (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Sun, 3 Jan 1993 19:15:45 EST
Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 6, No. 0426. Sunday, 3 Jan 1993.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 10:28 MST
From: Maurizio Oliva <MOLIVA@CC.UTAH.EDU>
Subject: Teaching Languages with NEWS
What follows is the description of an experiment in language
teaching using Network resources. We would like to ask for your comments,
especially the ones of you who have been previously involved in similar
experiences.
=-=-----==--===--=-==-=-====-=-=-=-=-=-==----=--=-=----=-=-=-===-=-=-=-=
Terri Cononelos (terri.cononelos@m.cc.utah.edu)
Maurizio Oliva (moliva@cc.utah.edu)
Teaching Languages with NEWS
Although much has been written about the use of computer software in
language teaching, little emphasis has been placed on the possibility of
using computer networks in this setting. Yet, Network Resources (NR)
such as Usenet (NEWS) and EMail do not have the intrinsic restrictions
that software does, i.e. software is usually limited to specific systems
and the degree of interaction between the computer and the student
cannot be compared to that between human correspondents. Because NR can
connect students with other native speakers, it is adaptable to the
specific needs and tastes of teachers and learners.
Current theory holds that using language for the purpose of
communication, rather than focusing on the memorization of vocabulary or
grammatical rules, facilitates language acquisition (See Krashen, 1985
and Brinton et al., 1989). If interaction is the key to the learning
process then the learner will benefit by communicating with the greatest
possible number of competent speakers. Learner motivation also seems to
play a part in language acquisition, and courses which allow learners to
choose their own topics of study have been effective (see Legutke, 1991,
p. 232 and Nunan, 1988, p. 22-24). We believe network use facilitates
language development by allowing communication with a wide range of
native speakers on topics of students' choice.
In this paper we will argue that the Internet offers many resources
which are useful in the teaching and learning of languages. We will
show how some of these resources were used in a fourth-year Italian
class taught at the University of Utah by one of the authors (Maurizio
Oliva) in Spring 1992. In the first section , we will briefly describe
the development and capabilities of Internet, EMail and NEWS. Then we
will discuss the network features used in Italian 401 and the advantages
they offer to the teaching of languages.
Development and capabilities of Internet
According to Ed Krol (Krol 1989), the ARPANET was the beginning of the
international computer network. It was an experimental network which
connected hosts and terminal servers together. In time the system
operators worked out standard procedures for the allocation of addresses
and other network operations. In time some hosts became gateways to
other machines or to local networks: all this required the creation of a
protocol, called the Internet Protocol, to allow interoperation among
different systems. When finally the ARPA pulled out from the ownership
the networks started to be called the Internet.(1)
The huge growth of the Internet (which as of July 1992 has approximately
800,000 hosts) and its division in subsidiary nets did not harm
interoperability, thus allowing millions of scholars, researchers,
scientists, and fans to keep in touch with the world (Jones, 1989). The
people who access the net are numerous; every machine hosts from one to
several thousand people (Jones, 1989). The services available through
the net are the most sophisticated and powerful in the world. It can be
either the remote access to a supercomputer to display elaborate
graphics of lab results, or the search and transfer of public domain
software, or the access to the library catalogs of most of the major
universities in the world or finally Usenet: one of the most powerful
means of communication available to individuals. Three main procedures
allow you to access all those services: Electronic Mail (E-Mail), File
Transfer Protocol (FTP) and TELNET. We will focus our attention on
E-Mail and the Usenet.
E-Mail
E-Mail is probably the most well known and largely used of the Internet
services. It is in fact a program that is able to recognize
standardized format electronic addresses and transfer messages to a user
on a remote machine.
E-Mail on Internet, is very fast and efficient as compared to Bitnet
because it is either delivered directly to the addressee or it goes
through only a small number of gateways.(2)
An analysis of an Internet address illustrates how E-Mail works. In the
address MOLIVA@CC.UTAH.EDU, "MOLIVA" is the userid (user
identification), "CC" is the name of the machine where the account is
located, "UTAH.EDU" is the domain where "EDU" signals that the
organization is an educational institution, as opposed to COM
(commercial), GOV (government agencies) MIL (military) or ORG (other
organizations) in the United States. In the rest of the world addresses
end with the code of the country (e.g. MOLIVA@GHOST.SM.DSI.UNIMI.IT,
where "IT" stands for Italy). Although the most powerful computers are
often on all the major networks (Internet, Bitnet and Decnet), it might
happen that a user on a machine connected only to the Internet needs to
send E-Mail to another user a connected only to the Bitnet. In this
case it would be necessary to go through a gateway (Jones 1989).
NEWS
Another feature of the neworks is Usenet, commonly referred to as NEWS.
Spafford claims that in trying to define Usenet one must focus on the
use that people make of it: Usenet is the set of people who exchange
articles tagged with one or more universally-recognized labels, called
'newsgroups'. Usenet encompasses government agencies, large
universities, high schools, businesses of all sizes, home computers of
all descriptions, etc. Every administrator controls his own site. No
one has any real control over any site but his own. 'Upstream' sites
have some influence on their neighbors' participation in Usenet. But
such influence is usually easy to circumvent; and heavy-handed
manipulation typically results in a backlash of resentment. To help
hold Usenet together, various articles are periodically posted in
newsgroups in the "news" hierarchy. These articles are provided as a
public service by various volunteers....
Usenet as a whole is not a democracy. However, there is exactly one
feature of Usenet that has a form of democracy: newsgroup creation. A
new newsgroup is unlikely to be widely propagated unless its sponsor
follows the newsgroup creation guidelines; and the current guidelines
require a new newsgroup to pass an open vote. There is no higher
authority on Usenet than the people who own the machines on which Usenet
traffic is carried (1992). Although there is no authority in charge of
enforcing regulations on Usenet a set of widely accepted guidelines has
been worked out for topics like "netiquette" (network etiquette),
newsgroup creation, or to prevent commercial advertising and other forms
of abuse. A violation of these guidelines would lead to a reaction by
the other users, directed to the system operator who manages the account
where the abuse originated.
Most of the people who read NEWS use the Internet but it is possible to
receive it also by mail on the Bitnet or to access it from some sublink
with limited capabilities. Also most of the people who read NEWS are on
a UNIX machine and probably based at an American organization, and they
use the ASCII code. But we know that many other people on VMS machines
are readers of NEWS or that newsgroups with area distribution may use a
special set of characters (ie, Japanese kanji).(3) People who
communicate on NEWS in languages other than English and want to reach the
widest audience possible for their posting would be best off choosing to
use only characters in the fundamental ASCII set for their writing.
However, in doing so they give up the possibility of accurately
representing all the features of the language they are writing.(4)
NEWS carries mostly personal articles posted by users from many
countries as well as some news information services. The articles are
organized into many main groups including alt (alternative), comp
(computer), news (the "metagroup"), rec (recreative), sci (science), soc
(society), talk, etc. Thousands of newsgroups are distributed in the
United States. The following list is a sample of some of them:
alt.hypertext Uses of the hypertext and technicalities
comp.sys.laptops Portable PCs and related
news.announce.newusers Periodical digests to
explain the functioning of NEWS
rec. cooking Food, cooking, cookbooks and recipes
sci.lang discussions related to natural language
soc.culture. mexican Discussion of Mexico's society
talk.politics.china Discussion of political issues related to China
The wide range of cultures represented in the soc.culture newsgroups and
the fact the most of the postings are in the corresponding language
makes the network useful for a wide variety of language teachers. As we
said the reproduction of these languages is "approximated" using the non
extended ASCII set; in the case of European languages these degree of
approximation is quite acceptable. In the case of Italian, the graphic
representation of the stressed vowels a, i, u, o, e, are easily replaced
by a sequence vowel plus apostrophe such as: a', i', u', o', e'. For
the purposes of the Italian course, the instructor focused on the group
called soc.culture.italian (SCI). SCI is a worldwide newsgroup where
people, mostly Italian, post and read articles about Italian culture
mostly in Italian. On the average, roughly 150 articles are posted in
this newsgroup each week.
Description of the course
"Topics in Italian Culture: Contemporary Issues", was a fourth-year
course taught at the University of Utah, Spring quarter of 1992. It was
the last in a series of three courses about the contemporary history,
literature and society of Italy. Six students enrolled, all of whom had
achieved advanced levels of proficiency in reading, writing and speaking
Italian. The goals of the course were to increase students' knowledge
of Italian society and to engage them in producing authentic text for the
purpose of communicating with native speakers about important issues.
All aspects of the course were taught in Italian.
Students spent the first two weeks reading background material related
to Italian society and culture, gathering the basic tools necessary to
use the Network and choosing the topic which would be the focus of their
study during the quarter. The teacher supplied a list of possible
topics related to contemporary Italian society about which students
could communicate (via written text sent on NEWS) with native speakers.
Those who had an area of interest or expertise not included on the list
were encouraged to pursue it. Among the topics chosen were Italian
opera, the role of women in Italy and Italy's place in the EEC.
Since students were to be communicating with highly educated native
speakers about contemporary issues, it was necessary that they have
solid background knowledge about their topics and be familiar with basic
information about the political and social structures of modern Italy.
Toward this end the teacher assigned readings concerning Italy's
constitution and political parties, the structure of Italian government
institutions, and demographic information (including population,
education level, unemployment and migration patterns). Students also
read newspaper and journal articles relevant to their individual topics
of study.
During the first two weeks, the teacher discussed the assigned readings
and helped students get ready to use the computers. They began by
obtaining accounts on the Novell network from the University Computer
Center, which enabled them to link up with worldwide news networks.(5)
The instructor then reviewed basic word processing skills on
Wordperfect, and taught students how to use the Program Editor (PE) and
how to access and use the newsreader, and IMail.(6) The PE program was
chosen because it looks like Wordperfect but produces ASCII files which
were necessary to post in NEWS. The instructor selected a DOS
newsreader that was menu-driven and therefore user friendly. IMail is a
menu driven E-Mail manager for DOS that is fast and allows students to
communicate with each other as well as with other users of NEWS.(7)
Beginning the third week students were required to send three postings
per week to NEWS. These were written at home so that class time could
be spent sending text to the network, checking mail, and discussing
other students' postings. (Students read each others work either before
or after in was sent to the network.) Those who wished to receive
comments from the teacher prior to posting their texts were able to do
so. The teacher checked NEWS to make sure students were completing the
required amount of writing as well as to monitor the overall quality of
the texts. Since a good deal of the monitoring was done during class,
the teacher spent a minimal amount of time outside class reading
students' work. Moreover the teacher had the possibility to perform
this part of the work at home by connecting to the campus network by
modem.
Students received an average of three responses for each article they
posted and were required to reply to everyone that posted a follow-up
comment through the NEWS network.(8) This was done either by writing an
individual reply to each response, or by writing one text containing
replies to various respondents. Students also received responses to
their news texts through IMail and were encouraged to reply to those as
well. Since IMail accounts are private, however, the teacher was only
able to monitor the frequency with which the students replied to
responses sent through the NEWS network.
At the end of the course, students submitted a summary and analysis of
the materials they had posted and the reactions they had received. They
also participated in an evaluation session in which they commented on
various aspects of the course. All the students believed their writing
had improved as a result of having communicated through the network.
One student stated specifically that she had overcome grammar problems,
while the others reported feeling more at ease with writing in Italian.
Students suggested that courses using NEWS also be taught in the third
year, based on their belief that writers at a lower level of proficiency
would also be able to effectively use the resources
Conclusion
In conclusion we would like to discuss some of the benefits and
challenges associated with using NEWS in language teaching. In a
language learning setting which is based upon interaction, NEWS has been
very effective, given the enormous number of readers (in the order of
hundreds of thousands) and the large number of regular readers of SCI.
Even when a tiny percentage of the readers of SCI are interested in
engaging in discussions following the postings of the students, this is
still a large number. Most of the readers of SCI are native speakers or
have a high degree of knowledge of the Italian language. All this
alleviates the burden of the teacher as far as feedback to the students
is concerned: there is less need for teacher feedback since there is
interaction with readers of NEWS.
The correspondence between students and other readers may take place at
two different levels: public with followups on NEWS or private with
EMail replies. The interaction may lead to a relationship between
students and correspondents which extends beyond the time frame of the
class.
That the use of network resources is not tied nor limited to a specific
software or hardware requirement is also an advantage. It can be
reproduced in almost any facility which is connected to the Internet.
Using the resources on the networks allows the teachers flexibility in
adapting to the various situations of their institutions. The decision
of what operating system to work with, what editor and mailer etc. to
choose, is best met after considering what is available on site.
Learning languages with NEWS also presents challenges. Sometimes it
requires skills that teachers and students do not have initially. This
necessitates preliminary work by the teachers in determining which tools
are available at their institution and are best suited for their
purposes. Exploring how those tools can be applied to classes and
teaching students how to use them also takes time. In the case of
Italian 401 students learned the necessary skills in the first two weeks
of class.
We think that some questions have been raised by this work and would
like to address the Internet community with some considerations.
Italian 401 was possibly the first language class taught using NEWS.
This condition could have contributed to its success. What would happen
if such an experience were replicated at different institutions and the
number of students in the same newsgroup increased tenfold? What would
the reaction of the regular readers be? What consequences would this
have on the effectiveness of the means?
We believe that any answers to the previous questions must consider that
NEWS is a "living entity" continuously growing and evolving and that its
growth is directly determined by each and all of its users through a
process called "newsgroup creation". For example new structures
dedicated to the purpose of language teaching could be created inside
NEWS if too many students posted on any one newsgroup. Once a general
interest exists. it is easy to create newsgroups dedicated to the study
of specific languages, moderate them and find a combination of topics
that makes them attractive to native speakers who remain the primary
target of interaction.
Notes
1. While in the United States the approach to this new reality
has been one of "deregulation", leading to the blossoming of
hundreds of thousands of machine connected to the internet as
hosts, in the rest of the world and especially in European
countries we witnessed the growth of "benign" monopolies, in the
hands of governmental agencies.
2. The Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is the Internet
standard protocol for transferring electronic mail messages from
one machine to another. SMTP specifies how two mail systems
interact and the format of control messages they exchange to
transfer mail.
3. The ASCII set of characters is constituted by 128 characters of
whom 94 are printable: almost every operating system based on
ASCII uses an extended set, but, to be able to communicate with
any machine system is preferable to use the lowest common
denominator.
4. The International Standard Organization (ISO) developed a set
of caracters where some section were fixed and some smaller
sections were variable according to national standards. The United
States national set of characters was called American Standard
Code for Information Interchange (ASCII), developed by ANSII.
Since most of the Networking comes from United States this has
become by large the most widespread set f caracters in the World.
To compensate, writers of romance languages in Usenet newsgroups
have substituted existing ASCII symbols for many of the marks (ie,
the apostrophe is used after a vowel to signify that it is written
with an accent. Thus, citt is written citta' and perch becomes
perche').
5. All of these tools run under DOS which is an environment
familiar to the many university students. At the University of
Utah, the tools are installed on a Local Area Network (LAN)
connected with the campus NOVELL network so that they can be
accessed from many different campus locations.
6. In order to receive an account students registered themselves
at the University Computer Center. Obtaining accounts proved to be
a somewhat cumbersome and inefficient process. Some students were
not able to get their accounts functioning until the end of the
second week. In anticipation of the Fall 1992 course, the
instructor has arranged for the students to be given an
IMail account automatically upon registering for the course.
7. IMail has been written by David Hoisve and installed on the
Novell campus network at the University of Utah. It is
particularly easy and fast, since almost every command is
performed by simply selecting with the arrows and pushing enter. I
found it to be very well suited to the purposes of Italian 401,
given that most of the students were familiar with the DOS
environment and IMail does require a very short training.
8. Only one student received considerably less than the average
number of replies per posting. When the teacher suggested he
change his topic, the student refused. He continued to produce
the required amount of text and wait patiently for a sympathetic
interlocutor.
References
Brinton, D., M.A. Snow, M.B. Wesche. "Content Based Second
Language Instruction". New York: Newbury House, 1989.
Greenia, G. "Computers and Teaching Composition in a Foreign
Language."
Foreign Language Annals 25(1992):33-45.
Johnson, E. "Teaching on international computer networks."
Dakota State University at Madison, South Dakota. Computer
readable article.
eric@sdnet.bitnet. 1992.
Jones, P. "What is the Internet?" Academic Computing Services,
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. EMail.
(pjones@samba.acs.unc.edu). 1989.
Krashen, S.D. "The Imput Hypothesis: Issues and Implications".
London: Lomgman, 1985.
Krol, E. "Hitchhiker's guide to the Internet." University of
Illinois at Urbana. Computer readable article (RFC #1118), 1992.
Krol, E. "The Whole Internet User's Guide and Catalog." O'Reilly
and Associates, 1992.
Legutke, M., H. Thomas. "Process and experience in the language
classroom". New York: Longman, 1991.
Lunde, K. "Using Electronic Mail as a Medium for Foreign Language
Study and Instruction. CALICO Journal 7(1990):68-78.
Nunan, D. "The Learner Centered Curriculum". Melbourne: Cambridge
University Press, 1988.
Spafford, G. "What is Usenet?/part one." Purdue University. NEWS
Posting in news.announce. newusers. Article #537, 1992.
ANNEX
This section is meant to propose an example of a posting and its
followup reproducing the format they have on the newsreader (most of the
newsreaders) screen. The first part of each posting, the header,
contains useful information about the electronic address and name of the
author, the newsgroups of distribution, the subject (all the followups
have a "Re:" to introduce the subject), the date andtime of posting.
The body of the posting carries other particularities such as: the
electronic reference (including author, address, subject and time) for
every quote, the sign > or similar (specified by he user) to introduce
every line of quoting.
X-NEWS: cc.utah.edu soc.culture.italian: 2509Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
Path: fcom.cc.utah.edu!pc-ipxip-8.cc.utah.edu!dan.taylor
From: dan.taylor@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU (DANIEL ANDREW TAYLOR)
Subject: La guerra italiana civile
Message-ID: <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Keywords: CEE
Sender: news@fcom.cc.utah.edu
Organization: University of Utah
Date: Fri, 1 May 1992 18:38:54 GMT
Di solito quando si parlava di una "guerra fredda," si intendeva le
relazioni fra l'Est e l'Ovest, specificamente fra gli Stati Uniti e l'Unione
Sovietica. In questi giorni e' popolare credere che la guerra fredda sia
finita, a che l'Ovest abbia vinto. Pero, io credo che ci sia ancora una guerra
fredda, e che questa guerra sia forse piu' importante per l'Italia.
Avendo trascorso un paio d'anni nel Italia del sud, ho visto che
l'Italia e' divisa - che in realta' ci sono due Italie - quella del nord
e quella del sud. Quelli dal Nord tengono in disdegno quelli dal Sud, e
quelli dal Sud disprezzano il Nord. Mi pare che non si sentano compatrioti
con obiettivi simili, ma sembrano invece rivali che non vogliono vedere
l'altro vincere.
Ma questa e' una divisione che non fa male a nessuno tranne che a
quegl'italiani che la sostengono. La divisione e' una debolezza a
confronto degli altri paesi europei che fanno parte della CEE. E fino a quando
l'Italia non riesce ad unirsi, politicamente eancia e la Germania, dipendente
da un'alleanza con la Spagna, il Portogallo e la Grecia per realizzare i suoi
scopi nell'Europa.
Siccome e' vero che l'Italia non e' stata un paese unito fino al
secolo scorso, forse la cultura italiana si e' abituata ad essere due societa'
diverse - e divise. Ma io penso che sarrebbe proprio ora per l'Italia di
dichiarare la fine della guerra fredda italiana, che ormai e' una guerra
fredda civile. In questo modo, ne' il Nord ne' il Sud saranno gli sconfitti
- anzi, e' tutta l'Italia che trionfa!
Lo Sarto
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dan Taylor, Studente di Matematica, U of U
dan.taylor@m.cc.utah.edu
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
X-NEWS: cc.utah.edu soc.culture.italian: 2513Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
Path: fcom.cc.utah.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state
.edu!think.com!ames!pasteur!athos.Berkeley.EDU!luciano
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Message-ID: <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Keywords: CEE
Sender: nntp@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU (NNTP Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: athos.berkeley.edu
Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
References: <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Date: Sat, 2 May 1992 00:29:16 GMT
Lines: 55
In article <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU>, dan.taylor@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU
(DANIEL ANDREW TAYLOR) writes:
[...]
>Avendo trascorso un paio d'anni nel Italia del sud, ho visto che
>l'Italia e' divisa - che in realta' ci sono due Italie - quella del nord
>e quella del sud. Quelli dal Nord tengono in disdegno quelli dal Sud, e
>quelli dal Sud disprezzano il Nord. Mi pare che non si sentano compatrioti
>con obiettivi simili, ma sembrano invece rivali che non vogliono vedere
>l'altro vincere.
La visione del problema dall'esterno mi interessa. Qaunto diffuso e' il
fenomeno, per quello che hai potuto vedere ?
Ti spiego perche': essendo Italiano, tendo ovviamente a minimizzare il
problema, e ad asserire che, in fondo, tutto va bene. Ovviamente gli Americani
fanno lo stesso a proposito dei problemi negli USA (che sono tanti, come stiamo
vedendo...). Quindi un'opinione esterna puo' essere utile a chiarire la
questione.
>Ma questa e' una divisione che non fa male a nessuno tranne che a
>quegl'italiani che la sostengono. La divisione e' una debolezza a
>confronto degli altri paesi europei che fanno parte della CEE. E fino a
>quando
>l'Italia non riesce ad unirsi, politicamente e economicamente, rimarra'
>un membro minore della CEE, dominato dalla Francia e la Germania, dipendente
>da un'alleanza con la Spagna, il Portogallo e la Grecia per realizzare i suoi
>scopi nell'Europa.
Interessante. Francia e Germania hanno divisioni Sud-Nord molto forti (Bavaresi
ed Amburghesi si considerano due razze diverse o quasi, che io sappia). Pero'
non hanno movimenti separatisti su larga scala (esclusi i Bretoni, forse).
Perche' ? O meglio, perche' noi li abbiamo (e non mi riferisco solo alle Leghe,
ma anche ad aree, come Alto Adige, Sardegna, e, subito dopo la guerra, la
Sicilia) ?
Ha forse a che fare con un malgoverno particolarmente fastidioso e, a quanto
pare, ineliminabile, che ognuno tende ad attribuire all'"altra meta'" d'Italia
? E quindi ci illudiamo che, se riusciamo a dividerci, non avremo piu'
partitocrazia e scandali ?
>Siccome e' vero che l'Italia non e' stata un paese unito fino al
>secolo scorso, forse la cultura italiana si e' abituata ad essere due societa'
>>diverse - e divise.
Questo e' vero anche per la Germania, quindi ci deve essere qualche altro
particolare.
> Ma io penso che sarrebbe proprio ora per l'Italia di
>dichiarare la fine della guerra fredda italiana, che ormai e' una guerra
>fredda
>civile. In questo modo, ne' il Nord ne' il Sud saranno gli sconfitti - anzi,
>e'
>tutta l'Italia che trionfa!
Speriamo...
Ciao !
Luciano
--
Luciano Lavagno Dept of EECS, Univ of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
+1-510-642-5012 luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU
X-NEWS: cc.utah.edu soc.culture.italian: 2514Path: fcom.cc.utah.edu!hellgate
.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate
!spool.mu.edu!yale.edu!think.com!sdd.hp.com!network.ucsd.edu
!weber.ucsd.edu!lpicci
From: lpicci@weber.ucsd.edu (Lucio Picci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Keywords: CEE
Message-ID: <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: 2 May 92 00:46:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.tsop3INNjsr
References: <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU> <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berke
ley.EDU>
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 14
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu
In article <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> luciano@athos.Berkeley
.EDU (Luciano Lavagno) writes:
>Ovviamente gli Americani
>fanno lo stesso a proposito dei problemi negli USA (che sono tanti, come stiamo
>vedendo...).
Io non sto vedendo un bel niente, e' tutto coperto di fumo!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
== Lucio Picci == Lo sai che i papaveri ==
== Oppiomane == son' alti-alti-alti... ==
== Dept. of Economics, == ==
== U.C.S.D., San Diego. == Nilla Pizzi ==
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
X-NEWS: cc.utah.edu soc.culture.italian: 2515Newsgroups: soc.culture.italian
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.edu!think.com!ames!pasteur!athos.Berkeley.EDU!luciano
From: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Message-ID: <1992May2.005700.25742@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Keywords: CEE
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Reply-To: luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno)
Organization: UC Berkeley IC CAD Group
References: <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU> <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berke
ley.EDU> <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 May 1992 00:57:00 GMT
Lines: 29
In article <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>, lpicci@weber.ucsd.edu (Lucio Picci)
writes:
>In article <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
>luciano@athos.Berkeley.EDU (Luciano Lavagno) writes:
>>Ovviamente gli Americani
>>fanno lo stesso a proposito dei problemi negli USA (che sono tanti, come
>stiamo
>>vedendo...).
>
>Io non sto vedendo un bel niente, e' tutto coperto di fumo!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>== Lucio Picci == Lo sai che i papaveri ==
>== Oppiomane == son' alti-alti-alti... ==
^^^^^^^^^
>== Dept. of Economics, == ==
>== U.C.S.D., San Diego. == Nilla Pizzi ==
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Te lo aveva detto la mamma di non passare il tuo tempo nelle fumerie di Canton
!
Ciao !
Luciano
P.s. vado a casa. Coprifuoco alle 7:00.
--
Luciano Lavagno Dept of EECS, Univ of California, Berkeley, CA 94720, USA
+1-510-642-5012 luciano@ic.Berkeley.EDU
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From: gin490@cdc835.cdc.polimi.it ()
Subject: Re: La guerra italiana civile
Message-ID: <gin490.705063726@cdc835>
Keywords: CEE
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References: <dan.taylor.3@EMCB.CC.UTAH.EDU> <1992May2.002916.24136@pasteur
.Berkeley.EDU> <tsop3INNjsr@network.ucsd.edu>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1992 11:02:06 GMT
Lines: 21
lpicci@weber.ucsd.edu (Lucio Picci) writes:
>Io non sto vedendo un bel niente, e' tutto coperto di fumo!
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>== Lucio Picci == Lo sai che i papaveri ==
>== Oppiomane == son' alti-alti-alti... ==
>== Dept. of Economics, == ==
>== U.C.S.D., San Diego. == Nilla Pizzi ==
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Torna al Kinotto!
Non sfumare via cosi`
Saluti annebbiati
Giovanni