5.0230 Qs: Number Words; OE fonts; Ethnograph; ... (5/114)

Elaine Brennan & Allen Renear (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Mon, 15 Jul 1991 21:17:31 EDT

Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 5, No. 0230. Monday, 15 Jul 1991.

(1) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 09:06:34 EDT (54 lines)
Subject: "Teen" query

(2) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 21:14:11 PDT (21 lines)
From: dfreeman%mizar.usc.edu@usc.edu (Donald Freeman)
Subject: Old English Characters

(3) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 13:38 BST (22 lines)
Subject: Ethnograph

(4) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 16:13 BST (12 lines)
From: "David Zeitlyn, ISCA, Oxford" <ZEITLYN@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Subject: Query: e-Dumezil

(5) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 14:34:30 EDT (5 lines)
From: dthel@conncoll.bitnet
Subject: E-mail address

(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 91 09:06:34 EDT
Subject: "Teen" query

I have a simple question that I've asked of a number of
linguists, including experts in Romance
philology, so far to no avail. So, I throw my question out
to my fellow HUMANISTS. It concerns the numbers between
10 and 20. In English, we tend to refer to these as the
"teens" because they all end with "teen," except, of course,
that they don't. Only the numbers 13 through 19 end in
teen. As we all know, with the exception of French French
(as opposed to Swiss or Belgian French), the numbers from
20 to 99 proceed via simple forms, the decade usually marked by a
variant on the corresponding single-digit number (two, twenty;
three, thirty) and then the next nine numbers formed by adding
one each (thirty-one, etc.). But in the decade of the teens,
we have this interesting marker of "teenness," which obviously
come from "tenness," a fact even more obvious in German than
in English. Now French and Spanish, just like English and
German, have teen-markers, but, at least on the surface,
they don't seem to come into play right after 12, as in English
and German, but rather after 15 and 16 respectively. Now,
I'm perfectly willing to believe that the z of quatorze and
the second c of catorce are z markers, perhaps related to
the z of zehn, so I'm open for a good historical account of
how there are really TWO teen markers in Romance languages,
a z and a dix/diez. But what I'm most interested in learning
is why French and Spanish, with such similar histories,
change from one teen marker to another at *different* points
in their numbering systems. (So far as I've been able to
discover, this oddity is nowhere noted in print much less
explained. If that's so, and if this prompts someone to
solve the problem, it would be a kick for me if my posing
of this question were acknowledged in the resulting paper.)

English German French Spanish
------- ------- ------- ---------
ten zehn dix diez
eleven elf onze once
twelve zwolf douze doce
thirteen dreizehn treize trece
fourteen vierzehn quatorze catorce
fifteen funfzehn quinze quince
sixteen sechzehn seize dieciseis (diez y seis)
seventeen siebzehn dix-sept diecisiete (diez y siete)
eighteen achtzehn dix-huit dieciocho (diez y ocho)
nineteen neunzehn dix-neuf diecinueve (diecinueve)
twenty zwanzig vingt veinte

Eric Rabkin esrabkin@umichum.bitnet
Department of English esrabkin@um.cc.umich.edu
University of Michigan office: 313-764-2553
Ann Arbor MI 48109-1045 dept : 313-764-6330
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------33----
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 21:14:11 PDT
From: dfreeman%mizar.usc.edu@usc.edu (Donald Freeman)
Subject: Old English Characters

I wonder if there is an philologist-cum-computer-jockey out there who
might help with the following problem. I have a Ph. D. student who
probably is going to do a dissertation involving some examples from Old
English. I now and again write stuff in which it would be nice to be
able to use the full range of Old English characters using the standard
Magoun normalization. Both my student and I are Mac users. We would like
to be able to manufacture and insert on our keyboards what is missing from
all the fonts we have looked at: the so-called "runic" OE characters:-- the eth,
the thorn, the yogh, etc. Ideally, we'd like to be able to use
these characters in more than one font (say, Geneva, Helvetica, Times,
New York, and Palatino, for starters). Neither of us is a computer
wizard, as must be painfully obvious from the foregoing. I would
appreciate whatever help I can get from fellow humanists on this point.

Donald C. Freeman, Department of English, University of Southern California
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------32----
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 13:38 BST
Subject: Ethnograph

Dear All,
I have recieved a query concerning a textual analysis program called
ETHNOGRAPH (Qualis Research Associates). Does anyone have experience of this
package? If so I would appreciate any comments/suggestions.

Thanks in advance

Stuart Lee
Research Officer
CTI Centre for Textual Studies
Oxford University Computing Service
13 Banbury Road

(4) --------------------------------------------------------------19----
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 91 16:13 BST
From: "David Zeitlyn, ISCA, University of Oxford, UK" <ZEITLYN@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
Subject: Query: e-Dumezil

A request for a colleague - and I realise it must be
a very long shot - does anyone know of electronic versions
of any of the work of Dumezil (Firstname George if I remember correctly)?
Relpy to me and I will forward them and tell the list
if anything comes up.
Thanks for your help
Daviod Zeitlyn
Inst Of Social Anthropology
(5) --------------------------------------------------------------9-----
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 91 14:34:30 EDT
From: dthel@conncoll.bitnet
Subject: E-mail address

Can anyone give me an e-mail address for the Union of Concerned Scientists? Than