4.0489 Numbers (7/133)

Elaine Brennan & Allen Renear (EDITORS@BROWNVM.BITNET)
Mon, 17 Sep 90 21:17:22 EDT

Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 4, No. 0489. Monday, 17 Sep 1990.


(1) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 90 17:41:37 EDT (19 lines)
From: Laine <LAINE@vm.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Numerology

(2) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 90 09:50:50 DNT (15 lines)
From: Hans Joergen Marker <DDAHM@vm.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: 4.0486 Numerology

(3) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 90 00:53 MDT (12 lines)
From: "Ned J. Davison" <HISPANIA@UTAHCCA.BITNET>
Subject: Infinite numbers

(4) Date: 17 Sep 90 09:46:35 EST (15 lines)
From: "Dr. Ruth Mazo Karras" <RKARRAS@PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: duodecimal system

(5) Date: Mon, 17 Sep 90 08:49:57 MDT (6 lines)
From: koontz@alpha.bldr.nist.gov (John E. Koontz)
Subject: Re: 4.0486 Numerology

(6) Date: Sat, 15 Sep 90 01:39:21 EDT (18 lines)
From: Willard McCarty <MCCARTY@vm.epas.utoronto.ca>
Subject: numbers

(7) Date: 15 Sep 90 14:41:00 EDT (48 lines)
From: "Mary Dee Harris" <mdharris@guvax.georgetown.edu>
Subject: numbers

(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 90 17:41:37 EDT
From: Laine <LAINE@vm.utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Numerology

And then there is Danish, which also counts in 20s.
The Danes on the list will I am sure correct me if I
am wrong, but it is my understanding that

halvtres (= 50) is shorthand for '3 times 20 minus 1/2 of 20'
halvfiers (=70) is shorthand for '4 times 20 minus 1/2 of 20'
fiers (=80) is '4 times 20'
etc.

P.S. Jag ber Danskarna om ursaekt - jag har aldrig laert mej
stava (trans: My apologies to the Danes, I never learned to
spell!)

Laine Ruus
Univ of Toronto Data Library Service
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------26----
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 90 09:50:50 DNT
From: Hans Joergen Marker <DDAHM@vm.uni-c.dk>
Subject: Re: 4.0486 Numerology (4/75)

Twenty seemes to have been quite common as a number base in ancient
Europe. In Danish it remains in the names for 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90.
60 is called "tres" which is short for "tresindstyve" meaning in old
Danish three times twenty. Likewise 80 is called "firs" abbreviation of
"firsindstyve" meaning four times twenty. Even more complicated are 50,
70 and 90, "halvtres", "halvfjerds" og "halvfems". They are build on a
base of "halvtrediesindstyve" meaning literally half third times twenty,
with half third meaning two and a half.

Hans Joergen Marker
Danish Data Archive
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------22----
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 90 00:53 MDT
From: "Ned J. Davison" <HISPANIA@UTAHCCA.BITNET>
Subject: Infinite numbers

The Arabic 40 and its expansions to 40,000 for a "very large number"
bring to mind Jorge Luis Borges' favorite infinite numbers: 1001 (the
endless nights of Scheherezade) and its analogous infinite book in "El
libro de arena," the elaboration of Borges' footnote in his earlier "La
biblioteca de Babel; and 14, cited specifically in "La casa de Asterio'n,"
as the number of doors in the Minotaur's labyrinth.

Ned Davison, U. of Utah
(4) --------------------------------------------------------------20----
Date: 17 Sep 90 09:46:35 EST
From: "Dr. Ruth Mazo Karras" <RKARRAS@PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: duodecimal system

Randall Jones asks about a duodecimal system in Germanic cultures.
Indeed there seems to have been such a system in pre-Christian
Scandinavia. The Old Norse _hundrath_ (that's an eth on the end) meant
120. According to Cleasby-Vigfusson, "with the introduction of
Christianity came in the decimal hundred, the two being distinguished by
adjectives--tolfraett hundrath=120, and tiraett hundrath=100."

** Ruth Mazo Karras RKarras@PennSAS.BITNET
** Department of History RKarras@PennSAS.UPenn.EDU
** University of Pennsylvania (215) 898-2746 (voice)
** Philadelphia, PA 19104-6379
(5) --------------------------------------------------------------18----
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 90 08:49:57 MDT
From: koontz@alpha.bldr.nist.gov (John E. Koontz)
Subject: Re: 4.0486 Numerology (4/75)

In speculating on Homeric use of 20, one might want to consider the
suitability of various Greek decade terms, etc., to the meter, too.
(6) --------------------------------------------------------------28----
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 90 01:39:21 EDT
From: Willard McCarty <MCCARTY@vm.epas.utoronto.ca>
Subject: numbers

Allow me to recommend the following book on the cultural significance
of numbers:

Karl Menninger. Number Words and Number Symbols: A Cultural History
of Numbers. Transl. Paul Broneer. Cambridge, Mass: MIT Press, 1969.

This is derived from: Zahlwort und Ziffer. Rev. edn. Vandenhoeck und
Ruprecht, 1958.

There's so much here that my natural desire to natter on is utterly
frustrated.


Willard McCarty
(7) --------------------------------------------------------------56----
Date: 15 Sep 90 14:41:00 EDT
From: "]" <mdharris@guvax.georgetown.edu>
Subject: Trying again without retyping -- MDH

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To: MDHARRIS
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----Transcript of message follows----
Date: 15 Sep 90 14:05:00 EDT
From: "" <mdharris@guvax.georgetown.edu>
Subject: 20 digits
To: "humanist" <humanist@browvm.brown.edu>

When I taught number systems in beginning Computer Science courses, I
used to point out to my students that there are some cultures that use
base 20 systems, as I recall in the South Sea Islands (???). Our
speculation was that they went beyond ten to twenty because the warm
climate did not require them to cover their feet.

In past times we also referred to computers as one-fingered idiots, hence
binary. But the analogy is not exact since the decimal system involves
ten separate symbols, from ten digits (or fingers), so the computer
should have two "fingers" to match the two digits. Maybe computers
count on both hands!

Mary Dee Harris
mdharris@guvax.bitnet
mdharris@guvax.georgetown.edu

P.S. I currently have a broken finger -- the ring finger of my right
hand -- which has turned my typing into an octal operation. The little
finger can't participate without its neighbor. Alas!