3.78 marble and ivory
Willard McCarty (MCCARTY@VM.EPAS.UTORONTO.CA)
Tue, 30 May 89 20:31:58 EDT
My thanks to the following people for hints about marble and ivory.
There's a great book to be written about the metaphorical properties of
materials like these, I think.
Willard McCarty
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Humanist Discussion Group, Vol. 3, No. 78. Tuesday, 30 May 1989.
(1) Date: Mon, 29 May 89 17:28 BST (16 lines)
From: Don Fowler <DPF@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: RE: 3.64 queries (106)
(2) Date: Thu, 25 May 89 09:53 EDT (16 lines)
From: O MH KATA MHXANHN <MCCARTHY@CUA>
Subject: marble and ivory
(3) Date: Thu, 25 May 89 12:48:56 EDT (12 lines)
From: "Patrick W. Conner" <U47C2@WVNVM.bitnet>
Subject: Ivory cheekpiece
(4) Date: 26 May 89 15:01:32 EDT (Fri) (13 lines)
From: Gunhild Viden <viden@hum.gu.se>
Subject: Re marble and ivory (3.64)
(1) --------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 89 17:28 BST
From: Don Fowler <DPF@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: RE: 3.64 queries (106)
I'm not sure if Willard wanted replies on marble etc to be public or
private, but he can always intercept this: on marble at any rate see Nisbet -
Hubbard on Horace Odes 1.19.6 and McKeown on Ovid Amores 1.7.51-2. Nothing so
good on ivory, but Vergil Aeneid 12.68 with Satius Achilleid 1. 308 and Lyne
`Lavinia's Blush' in Further Voices in Vergil's Aeneid is instructive.
One of the email oddities for me is that I often get the reply to a
question before the query itself. But don't change this even if you can: it's
the cheapest hypertext system going!
Don Fowler (DPF@uk.ac.ox.vax)
(2) --------------------------------------------------------------21----
Date: Thu, 25 May 89 09:53 EDT
From: O MH KATA MHXANHN <MCCARTHY@CUA>
Subject: marble and ivory
Apart from the obvious sources -- commentaries on the poetry of Ovid
and Pease's commentary on book 4 of the Aeneid --, which I will assume
you have already pilfered, I would suggest, if you do not know of it
already, Viktor Poschl, Bibliographie zur antiken Bildersprache. Al-
though it was published in 1964, there are some "leads" in there. I
note sets of references under both "Elfenbein" and "Marmor".
As I contemplate this further, I find it easy to anger over the fact
that L'annee philologique is not yet available in a digitized form.
How much that would help you in this instance, and me in so many
others!
W. McCarthy, in virtuality
(3) --------------------------------------------------------------20----
Date: Thu, 25 May 89 12:48:56 EDT
From: "Patrick W. Conner" <U47C2@WVNVM.bitnet>
Subject: Ivory cheekpiece
My favorite extended simile in the Iliad is at the moment which Pandareus
ends the single combat between Menelaos & Paris by wounding the former.
The blood against the skin is described as purple against a carved ivory
cheekpiece in a horse's bridle. If I look it up, I'll have to give you
a reference from Lattimore, because I don't read Greek, but I suspect that
you'll remember it and have no trouble finding it in your edition, if it's
a useful point of comparison for you.
--Pat
(4) --------------------------------------------------------------28----
Date: 26 May 89 15:01:32 EDT (Fri)
From: Gunhild Viden <viden@hum.gu.se>
Subject: Re marble and ivory (3.64)
I am not sure that you are not overinterpreting the passage in Ovid.
To me it seems to be a matter of variatio sermonis: Pario marmore
- eburnea - niveo candore. Or why should Narcissus' neck be more sexy
than the rest of his body? However, if you do not believe me I suggest
that you check with the instances given in Thesaurus Linguae Latinae
-- I guess you have not thrown out your paper editions as yet!
Gunhild